Author Topic: *Tears of Joy*  (Read 5200 times)

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Renfield

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*Tears of Joy*
« on: October 04, 2007, 06:38:49 AM »
http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/boult/hvk2008.html

Check DG's own site for the exact contents.

If the entire 10 CDs are re-remasterings, I am going to buy that set before you can say HvK. Otherwise, I have all of them but the Schubert and (hopefully) the Brahms. But still: hurray! :D

dtwilbanks

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 06:42:02 AM »
http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/boult/hvk2008.html

Check DG's own site for the exact contents.

If the entire 10 CDs are re-remasterings, I am going to buy that set before you can say HvK. Otherwise, I have all of them but the Schubert and (hopefully) the Brahms. But still: hurray! :D

I can't link to it (from here). What is it?

Offline Brewski

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 08:19:48 AM »
The never-before-released DVDs sound quite interesting, like the Bruckner 8, 9 and Te Deum, and the 1970s concerts with Berlin.  Thanks for this heads-up. 

--Bruce
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.
     ~ Gustav Mahler

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 06:28:33 PM »
The never-before-released DVDs sound quite interesting, like the Bruckner 8, 9 and Te Deum, and the 1970s concerts with Berlin.  Thanks for this heads-up. 

--Bruce

I almost randomly bumped into this information, myself. I had read something about a new set of Karajan DVDs becoming available in November, which led me here.

A google search later, and the story linked above came up. :)


Edit: What is it with those typos and my not spotting them until a week has passed!? :P
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:27:29 PM by Renfield »

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2007, 12:11:03 AM »
Bumping this, as November 12th (and the release of the first wave) is steadily approaching! :D

Incidentally, I can confirm that all of the rest of that Brahms cycle is indeed coming, freshly remastered, and also a few other recordings they've "souped-up" sonically. 8)

(Anyway, I won't risk it: I'll just buy the whole package of "anniversary" recordings, for the new covers, if nothing else. Otherwise, I have almost all of them already, bar the newly-remastered ones. And of course, the DVDs. :))

head-case

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2007, 10:02:06 AM »
Bumping this, as November 12th (and the release of the first wave) is steadily approaching! :D

Incidentally, I can confirm that all of the rest of that Brahms cycle is indeed coming, freshly remastered, and also a few other recordings they've "souped-up" sonically. 8)

(Anyway, I won't risk it: I'll just buy the whole package of "anniversary" recordings, for the new covers, if nothing else. Otherwise, I have almost all of them already, bar the newly-remastered ones. And of course, the DVDs. :))

It will be nice to have the 60's Brahms cycle in a decent edition, and the videos will be fascinating to see, but I think it it is a bit of a non-event to see all of those recordings which have already appeared in so many different editions.  As far as the remasterings go, there are a few recordings that were very poorly remastered in the very early days of the CD, but it is hard to imagine that any recording that was remastered after 1990 will benefit much.  If anything the original tapes have deteriorated even further.

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2007, 02:18:16 PM »
It will be nice to have the 60's Brahms cycle in a decent edition, and the videos will be fascinating to see, but I think it it is a bit of a non-event to see all of those recordings which have already appeared in so many different editions.  As far as the remasterings go, there are a few recordings that were very poorly remastered in the very early days of the CD, but it is hard to imagine that any recording that was remastered after 1990 will benefit much.  If anything the original tapes have deteriorated even further.


Well, the part about the non-event I can (partly :P) agree with, concerning the rest of the recordings. But things like that Brahms cycle, the Schubert symphonies, and indeed the DVDs I consider quite a potent addition to the available Karajan "discography".

If nothing else, I think they'll have it out (i.e. circulating) in its wholeness, by some point in 2008. Though some less-successful CDs will only available as downloads, from what I've read (above). But anyway, my point it: it's a major Karajan reissue, if perhaps a bit small-scale in the CD front. Hence my joy. ;)

BorisG

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 05:27:08 PM »
Of the Nov. 12 CDs, the Brahms 2 & 3 is the only newly-remastered. It is nice to hear that Brahms 1 & 4 will be remastered. 1 may be helped some (1995 remastering). I do not think 4 (1988 remastering) will be helped much. It always enjoyed the best sound.

It will be interesting to hear "the new" 2 & 3. If they just darkened it, as they did 1 in 1995, then we know that the tapes are what they are. Not in very good condition.

Meanwhile, I shall hope for the 1966 Bruckner 9 remastering. ::)

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 05:44:50 PM »
Of the Nov. 12 CDs, the Brahms 2 & 3 is the only newly-remastered. It is nice to hear that Brahms 1 & 4 will be remastered. 1 may be helped some (1995 remastering). I do not think 4 (1988 remastering) will be helped much. It always enjoyed the best sound.

It will be interesting to hear "the new" 2 & 3. If they just darkened it, as they did 1 in 1995, then we know that the tapes are what they are. Not in very good condition.

Meanwhile, I shall hope for the 1966 Bruckner 9 remastering. ::)

Seconded for the Bruckner 9th. And as for the November 12th "haul", the 4th is in there too, but not in the box set: they've sneaked it in here. ;)

But I don't think the Brahms 1st will be (re-)remastered. Only the other three, and I'm not certain about the 4th (it's being reissued for certain, but I don't know about the remastering).

Also, the Schubert disc might not necessarily be remastered, but it's a reissue after quite a while, isn't it? I myself didn't even know it existed, previously!

BorisG

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2007, 08:52:02 PM »
Seconded for the Bruckner 9th. And as for the November 12th "haul", the 4th is in there too, but not in the box set: they've sneaked it in here. ;)

But I don't think the Brahms 1st will be (re-)remastered. Only the other three, and I'm not certain about the 4th (it's being reissued for certain, but I don't know about the remastering).

Also, the Schubert disc might not necessarily be remastered, but it's a reissue after quite a while, isn't it? I myself didn't even know it existed, previously!

Funny indeed how they slipped that Brahms 4 where they did. Remastering is not mentioned, so it likely is the good sound obtained in the late 1980's when it appeared in the 100 Masterworks series, the series that featured his wife's paintings on the frontcovers. Schubert 8 & 9 also appeared in that series.

Thank you for the additional information. With a closer look at MDT listings, I see now that the Beethoven with Mutter, Stravinsky, Schubert 8 & 9, and Brahms 2 & 3 are all freshly remastered. They also make special note that the Beethoven 3 & 4 are the best remasterings available, from the SACD hybrids.

Apart from being Karajan's 100th, hopefully this is a milestone for recording companies being totally upfront about sound changes, whether or not there are any. For the most part, it has been a guessing game for 25 years.

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2007, 09:17:52 PM »
Apart from being Karajan's 100th, hopefully this is a milestone for recording companies being totally upfront about sound changes, whether or not there are any. For the most part, it has been a guessing game for 25 years.

Well said. And incidentally, the Beethoven 3rd and 4th from the recent SACD edition of the symphonies (which I do have, in addition to the "Originals" one) are very likely the best remasterings available, indeed. Even more so, probably the only recording from that SACD edition (the CD layer, mind you) which I don't prefer to its previous incarnation is the 9th. :)

BorisG

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2007, 03:02:21 PM »
Well said. And incidentally, the Beethoven 3rd and 4th from the recent SACD edition of the symphonies (which I do have, in addition to the "Originals" one) are very likely the best remasterings available, indeed. Even more so, probably the only recording from that SACD edition (the CD layer, mind you) which I don't prefer to its previous incarnation is the 9th. :)

DG did their best with the Hybrid 1963, though I did not buy. Of the few I heard, 3 and 9 sounded better than previous reissues. 7 & 8, not much. Listen to d'Oro's Karajan 7 (1941) & 8 (1946) if you have the chance. I think those might be better in most respects than the 1963s.

If interested, Karajan Master Recordings "clips" are available at Amazon Germany. To me, Real One sounds better than Music Sampler. ;D


Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2007, 07:10:11 PM »
DG did their best with the Hybrid 1963, though I did not buy. Of the few I heard, 3 and 9 sounded better than previous reissues. 7 & 8, not much. Listen to d'Oro's Karajan 7 (1941) & 8 (1946) if you have the chance. I think those might be better in most respects than the 1963s.

If interested, Karajan Master Recordings "clips" are available at Amazon Germany. To me, Real One sounds better than Music Sampler. ;D



With the VPO, I'd imagine by that date... I'll keep an eye out for them, as they're likely the only existent Beethoven recordings by Karajan that I haven't heard. ;)

As for the 9th, the reason I said I found it worse than the older issue is that it is clearer, but it also makes more prominent the "cavernous" effect that recording anyway has, making it a bit too wall-of-sound-y for even my taste. Though it's probably not their fault: they just made an effort to make the sound better, and better it is, just not more pleasing (to me). :)

Anyhow, I'm picking up the whole Master Recordings box, also for the sake of its collecor's value, and that "extra" release with the Brahms 4th. So I'll be able to report on them soon enough.

BorisG

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2007, 04:41:47 PM »
With the VPO, I'd imagine by that date... I'll keep an eye out for them, as they're likely the only existent Beethoven recordings by Karajan that I haven't heard. ;)

As for the 9th, the reason I said I found it worse than the older issue is that it is clearer, but it also makes more prominent the "cavernous" effect that recording anyway has, making it a bit too wall-of-sound-y for even my taste. Though it's probably not their fault: they just made an effort to make the sound better, and better it is, just not more pleasing (to me). :)

Anyhow, I'm picking up the whole Master Recordings box, also for the sake of its collecor's value, and that "extra" release with the Brahms 4th. So I'll be able to report on them soon enough.

I see amazon.com is classifying them as imports, so that makes them almost twice as expensive as at Crotchet and MDT. ???

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2007, 08:39:53 PM »
I see amazon.com is classifying them as imports, so that makes them almost twice as expensive as at Crotchet and MDT. ???

I wouldn't know, I'm from Europe. ;D :P


Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 02:10:45 AM »
2008 information-

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/yellownews/newsletter.htms?ID=76399,ff2d4e3d&NL_ID=176

http://www.karajan.co.uk/centenary.html

Thank you very much! I had heard something about that "Symphony Edition", among other items I was not specifically aware of.

Now, what remains is to see if there will be any new remasterings: and especially of performances that need it, such as the aforementioned Bruckner 9th! :D

George

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 11:44:13 AM »

Just wanted to pop my head in here so that I get notification on this topic.  :)

BorisG

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 06:39:03 PM »
I have purchased and listened to three CDs from this series. Beethoven symphonies 3 & 4, Opera Intermezzi, and Brahms symphonies 2 & 3.

As previously noted, this 1962 Beethoven is a repeat of the SACD hybrid's CD layer. Both display the best sound for these performances--clarity, and depth in soundstage. The 4th is an example of Karajan's best Beethoven, and one of the very best recordings for this work.

1967 Opera Intermezzi has additional work that was not on the Galleria CD. Some sound improvement, but not as much as in the Beethoven.

Likewise for the Brahms 2 & 3. Somewhat of a disappointment for me. As I suspected, they've darkened the sound as they did for symphony 1 on Originals. It relieves some of the high pitches, otherwise the previous versions will do.

On the basis of these three recordings one must revisit the controversy of DG recording. Tonemeister Gunter Hermanns? DG recording equipment? These recordings between the years of 1962 and 1967 should have fared much better. One only has to listen to Klemperer's recordings as early as the 1950's (and subsequent remasterings of), to realize something was awry at DG.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 07:11:03 PM by BorisG »

Renfield

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Re: *Tears of Joy*
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 08:30:00 PM »
Likewise for the Brahms 2 & 3. Somewhat of a disappointment for me. As I suspected, they've darkened the sound as they did for symphony 1 on Originals. It relieves some of the high pitches, otherwise the previous versions will do.

On the basis of these three recordings one must revisit the controversy of DG recording. Tonemeister Gunter Hermanns? DG recording equipment? These recordings between the years of 1962 and 1967 should have fared much better. One only has to listen to Klemperer's recordings as early as the 1950's (and subsequent remasterings of), to realize something was awry at DG.

Very much agreed, though I did enjoy both the 2nd and 3rd, as well as the superb 4th from "Karajan: The Music, The Legend". 8)

I also listened through the whole bunch the day I bought them, and watched the Tchaikovsky DVDs about a week ago (I think). With apologies for the huge delay - you might've noticed it's been a while since I even logged in GMG, if nothing else - here are my general impressions:


Volume 1 - Strauss: Ein Heldenleben

Well, this is a known and (by some of us) loved performance, exactly as it was, and "bundled" with an excellent "Till Eulenspigel" from a few years later. Nothing new here.


Volume 2 - Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4

BorisG covered me.


Volume 3 - Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1, Rococo Variations

Again, an old classic, as it was.


Volume 4 - Brahms: Symphonies Nos. 2 & 3

BorisG covered me here as well, though I'd like to note that it's incredible how Toscanini-like Karajan's reading of those two was, during that period! :o


Volume 5 -Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring, Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra

Well, this is Karajan's earlier "Rite", the one Stravinsky disliked, newly remastered and all; but I think I'll agree with Stravinsky about this one. Or in any case, I prefer Karajan's latter account of the work. And the Bartok I can say little about, as it's a piece I know very little. :(


Volume 6 - Debussy: La Mer, "Prelude" (you-know-what), Ravel: Bolero

Again, the same as a previous issue, exact same sound, etc. Still fantastic performances, though.


Volume 7 - Schubert: Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9

A very interesting disc, to me. The 8th probably works better than the 9th, but all in all very unsettled, yet still melodic and very "flowing" Schubert.


Volume 8 - Opera Intermezzi

Interesting, well-performed, but not entirely "my repertory", so I'll refrain from commenting any further. I did enjoy it greatly, if that helps...


Volume 9 - Mozart: Requiem, "Coronation" Mass

My favourite Karajan Requiem, still as it was (sound-wise), and coupled with a very well performed/recorded Coronation Mass, which I hadn't heard before (this version, that is).


Volume 10 - Beethoven: Violin Concerto

The hidden gem in this reissue! When I read that it was getting remastering (it being a 1979 recording), I'll admit I wondered just what they might improve. But in this incarnation, this recording sounds positively fantastic: Mutter's tone sounds as natural as if she played the concerto next to me (so to speak), and the orchestra comes out spectacularly clear.


Karajan: The Music, The Legend

A superb Brahms 4th with some genuinely breath-taking moments, a very interesting previously-unreleased Bach piece for 2 violins (BWV 1043), and the 5th Hungarian Rhapsody, by Liszt. Also a wonderful booklet with tributes to Karajan, though all in all I'd easily have payed the full price for this even if it only contained that Brahms 4th. ;D


Finally for the CDs, worth mentioning is the very nice booklet that comes with the entire "Master Recordings" box, which if nothing else has a lot of the "Karajan factor", for "fanboys" like me. ;)



Now, concerning the "Tchaikovsky 4th, 5th and 6th" DVD, there is only one thing for me to say:

It contains what are easily the best Karajan performances of all three symphonies I've personally heard (comparing with the two BPO recordings on DG and the BPO recording on EMI), and is the purchase I will recommend first and foremost, from these wave of new releases. Perhaps the first music DVD I'm tempted to watch/listen to instead of an ordinary recording!

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