Author Topic: The Early Music Club (EMC)  (Read 162100 times)

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Kullervo

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2008, 05:39:19 AM »
If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc


PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.



Yes, but Gesualdo et. al. came more than a hundred years after Dufay, Ockeghem, et. al. It's the same as the difference between Bach and Mendelssohn (well, that's a bit hyperbolic, but you get my point).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 05:42:07 AM by Corey »

Offline 71 dB

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2008, 07:23:38 AM »
Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.

I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay?  ::)
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Online The new erato

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2008, 07:36:50 AM »
I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay?  ::)

Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:

It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.


which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).

mozartsneighbor

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2008, 08:19:46 AM »
I think for someone who is just starting off with Renaissance music one of the best options would probably be the "Best of the Renaissance" Tallis Scholars double-disk set on Philips.
Some cds of music of this period I have acquired recently and greatly enjoyed are:



mozartsneighbor

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2008, 08:23:21 AM »


In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.

Online The new erato

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2008, 08:29:03 AM »


In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Same for me.

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2008, 09:17:58 AM »


I love that label, so many quality works, and they're generally available for very little on Amazon Marketplace, etc.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2008, 09:27:01 AM »
Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:

which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).

Similar is not identical. Two things can have differencies AND similaries at the same time. Renaissance church music is based heavily on contrapuntal composing techniques. In that sense it all is "similar". The different variations of contrapuntal technique bring differencies. With renaissance music the ratio of similarities and differences is greater than that of say music of romantic period. I didn't mean my statement to be objective. When do you people learn that what I say is my subjective opinion and nothing more?
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2008, 09:31:08 AM »


In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.

Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer...  :P
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2008, 09:32:56 AM »
you should check out Richafort's Requiem.

oh, thanks for the hint
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mozartsneighbor

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2008, 09:52:25 AM »
Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer...  :P

There's a cd on Naxos with Dufay chansons. I have that as well -- maybe not quite as good as the complete set on Oiseau-Lyre, but still quite well performed and enjoyable. So if the 5 cd set is overkill for you, begin with the Naxos cd and see how you like it.


Online The new erato

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2008, 10:10:46 AM »
Most Early Music Recordings on Naxos (at least of the good selection I have heard) are good value. Best value of all however, were the 5 (or 6) CD selection of Ockeghem masses (not quite complete alas) on ASV that used to be cheaply available.

Kullervo

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2008, 10:53:44 AM »
Most Early Music Recordings on Naxos (at least of the good selection I have heard) are good value. Best value of all however, were the 5 (or 6) CD selection of Ockeghem masses (not quite complete alas) on ASV that used to be cheaply available.

Is this the same thing?



I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 02:31:47 PM by Que »

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2008, 12:31:38 PM »
Is this the same thing?



I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
Yes it is. About what I paid.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 02:32:28 PM by Que »

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #94 on: September 22, 2008, 01:07:56 AM »


Josquin  -  Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae

The finest Mass out of the entire Renaissance IMO....  Finally something with real depth.

I do agree thart Josquin wrote some of the most interesting masses of the renaissance, and his compositional language is not as "strange" to us as the composers of a preceding generation in that more attention is paid to harmonic content while not sacrificing the superb counterpoint. The Sei Voci recordings are now collected in a cheap 6 CD box which I consider nearly mandatory if you have any interest in the period at all. However my favorite mass (while not in any way claiming it superior to others) is the Beate Virgine.

Found it! (Mouthwatering.... ;D) Thanks for the recommendations. :)



Josquin Desprez: Missa l'homme armé sexti toni; Missa l'homme armé supervoces musicales; Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae; Missa Gaudeamus; Messe Ave Maris Stella; Missa De Beata Virgine; Missa Pange Lingua; Deus, In Nomine Tuo Salvum Me FAC; Inviolata, Integra, Et Casta Es, Maria; Miserere Mei, Deus; Motets A La Vierge; Motets.

Martini: Perfunde Coelie Rore

Dupre: Chi A Martelo Dio Gl'Il Toglia


Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline Que

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2008, 12:45:38 AM »

click picture for more samples

Out of curiosity, wanting to expand in medieval music, I recently got this and it seems I have stumbled upon a very distinctive, if not controversial recording! :)
The issue at hand will become clear just to listen to the samples. Pérès approaches this work in a special way in terms of ornamentation and pitch, with slurring notes, modulation with "micro-intervals". The effect is by some described as Orientalism, but it reminds me of Byzantine/Orthodox singing. I'm a novice in Medieval Music and Machaut but the issue (and controversy) seems very adequately described in the editorial and customer reviews on Amazon.com: HERE.

In the end my feelings are that this approach maybe takes a moment to get used to - and maybe some never never will, as Corey noted earlier: opinions are much divided on this - but for me the result is convincing and rewarding. This is definitely something else... 8) Still, this work by Machaut is so beautiful and intriguing that I definitely will add another take to it, maybe by my favourite Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Cantus)? :)

Q
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 10:35:16 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

mozartsneighbor

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2008, 08:57:27 AM »
I have quite a few medieval music recordings, but for the last year or so haven't been in a mood for that kind of music. Don't ask me why -- my musical appetite works in strange cycles.
Maybe it's coming around to it again in the last month or so: have been listening to Hildegard von Bingen and have been getting acquainted with Machaut's motets. As quite a few people have mentioned, Machaut's motets are quite stunning. I have the Hilliard cd and I understand the version on the Zig-Zag label is very different, much more rough-edged and emotional. I may get that as well.
A cd of late Medieval music which is also quite interesting is this:


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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #97 on: September 28, 2008, 01:12:37 AM »

Click picture for more samples

A real winner here!! :)
A 3CD-set with Victoria's polyphonic settings for the Holy Week - Palm Sunday and subsequent days before Easter. The music consists of 37 pieces and includes antiphones and verses in plainchant. I'm absolutely baffled by the quality of the music and the performances the vocal ensembles La Columbina & Schola Antiqua. Strongly recommended! :)

Q

A review from Fanfare:
This is the sixth comprehensive approach to Tomás Luis de Victoria’s massive collection of music for Holy Week, published in 1585 as the composer was leaving Rome after 20 years there. The Officium Defunctorum of 1605, his final work, is the only rival work to be considered as his greatest masterpiece. But while we have had many sets of the 18 responsories for Tenebrae and almost as many sets of the nine lamentations, the most familiar elements of the Holy Week volume, the other pieces of this collection have been recorded more fitfully, and the two Passions (St. Matthew for Palm Sunday and St. John for Good Friday) have had the least attention of all.

Most recently, on Champeaux CSM 0001 (Jade C 332), recorded in 1991, Jean-Paul Gipon gave us the eight motets and a complete St. John Passion, the only set that presented the Improperia (“Popule meus”) with all the chant verses and, like Silos, added cantillation, or simple chant tones, of the 18 lessons of the second and third nocturns. This time the Improperia are not as complete as Gipon’s set (like Silos, this set includes only some of the chant verses), and both Passions are abridged. Uniquely among all these sets, we hear a chant antiphon and a versicle at the beginning of each of the nine nocturns, and a few other very familiar chant antiphons from the services. Cabré directs the polyphony, while Asensio directs the chant segments, using Roman books of 1586/87 and a 1515 book from Toledo for the two Spanish chants. Both have proved their expertise and scholarship in previous recordings of polyphony and chant, respectively.

The recording was made at San Miguel in Cuenca during three concerts of the Festival of Sacred Music in 2004. This makes it easier to understand why the two Passions, which consist of the crowd’s exclamations, set to polyphony within the traditional cantillation of the Passion narrative, were abridged. Long stretches of cantillation that are not interrupted by the crowd were ripe for omission, but what was left still showed well enough how the polyphony fit into the narration. I would have liked the complete Improperia as Gipon alone gave us, but that was not done. Still, this superb set now ranks at the top of the competition. The vocal ensemble is preferable to the solo voices on Spanish Columbia, and their singing is superior to Gipon’s group, the only other version on CD. Asensio directs the chant with attention to the variant version that was used at the time as well as to semiological interpretation, all done with an attractively unaffected style of singing. Cabré, who has sung in many early-music ensembles for years, is a capable director of the eight-voice ensemble (two of his recordings of Salazar’s music with another ensemble have just appeared).

The sound captured in the former church is ideal, warm without being overly resonant. The presentation is attractive, a slipcase containing three thin jewel boxes and a 64- page booklet that includes two notes. Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.

J. F. Weber
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 10:35:39 PM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Online The new erato

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2008, 01:18:10 AM »
Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.

I haven't.  ;D

Some of the first renaissance music to catch my attention was Victorias Lamentations for Easter, and I've since also heard some of it live. Of course I have this set.

Offline adamdavid80

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Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2008, 07:35:18 AM »
Thanks to Mozartsneighbor's recommendation, I've now got a Hildegard von Bingen CD featuring Barbara Thornton.  What an incredible voice and CD!

What other works are highlights featuring Thornton? 
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