Author Topic: Chez Stravinsky  (Read 84576 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1060 on: March 26, 2017, 10:24:34 AM »
Boulez Box and Rattle Symphonies fiiinally arrived... oh, giggles... listening to the middle movement of '3 Movements' in both first- don't want to go too fast... both recordings (in the middle/last mvmts) sounding as transparent as one could want, performances of no questioning. Maazel as good.

I'm holding off on 'Psalms' for wine+cheese night...

Very good.

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Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1061 on: March 27, 2017, 12:35:42 AM »
Here's my cow with Stravinsky's so-called "neo-classical" period:

Most of it does not sound even remotely "neo-classical", there is so much polytonality, bits of sharp dissonance, metric modulation, odd time signatures and even sometimes polyrhythms. Of course you can tell that it is influenced in particular by the classical era, but come on it's far cry from "neo-classical"  :laugh:
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline Thatfabulousalien

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Re: Chez Stravinsky MAKE PEACE WITH HERREWEGHE
« Reply #1062 on: March 27, 2017, 01:06:48 AM »
I think I can finally make peace with Symphony of Psalms. I just heard the samples of Herreweghe's Pentatone recording and... and... and... I can hear everything I want to hear in the intro- the whooping horn- and I can hear the oboe solo into the abyss pretty well. AND the pianos are up front! For the first time ever?? It really adds a new sound here.

Anyhow, I think this might be the 'Psalms' for me.




I'm also reevaluating the Simon Preston- those boys' voices really do make a difference (especially in the 'Mass').


It's one of those pieces that has minimalism sprinkled all over it, while remaining completely separate from minimalism. Quite interesting!
"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." - A.C.

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1063 on: March 27, 2017, 08:47:14 AM »
Here's my cow with Stravinsky's so-called "neo-classical" period:

Most of it does not sound even remotely "neo-classical", there is so much polytonality, bits of sharp dissonance, metric modulation, odd time signatures and even sometimes polyrhythms. Of course you can tell that it is influenced in particular by the classical era, but come on it's far cry from "neo-classical"  :laugh:

But an influence from the Classical era spiked with a modern language is precisely the definition of neoclassical music.

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Chez Stravinsky EARLY SONGS FIRST LISTEN EVER
« Reply #1064 on: March 28, 2017, 03:12:35 PM »
2 Poems de Paul Verlaine
2 Poems of Konstantin Bal'mont
3 Japanese Lyrics
3 Little Songs
Pribaoutki
Berceuses du chat
4 "Russian" Songs

Tilim-bom
Song of Parasha

Today I finally heard the songs up to 1920's '4 Russian Songs'. Well, I certainly didn't know the accompanying music was so Modernist. Would it be Cubist? Or was that later? Anyhow, 4-5 sets of songs all around 1-2 minutes, very nice- I surprised that I wasn't offended, lol. But you really need these songs to flesh out his Chamber Music.

The Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, and JFK all belong to the later...
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1065 on: March 28, 2017, 04:05:04 PM »
The Song of Parasha is from Mavra, of course.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1066 on: March 28, 2017, 07:11:23 PM »
Here's my cow with Stravinsky's so-called "neo-classical" period:

Most of it does not sound even remotely "neo-classical", there is so much polytonality, bits of sharp dissonance, metric modulation, odd time signatures and even sometimes polyrhythms. Of course you can tell that it is influenced in particular by the classical era, but come on it's far cry from "neo-classical"  :laugh:

You do know the neoclassical moniker was spawned by Stravinsky's Pulcinella, that it is an early 20th century musicological neologism, ergo, it includes all those modernisms as defined?  It also is very much about harmony not used as per the old common practice 'function.'

But I am with you as far as its being, yet again as a term coined by a reviewer, writer, some such, as misleading.  The style would most appropriately be called neobaroque, since that era is where I.S. and most other neoclassical compers turned to for forms.  Bohuslav Martinů and a few others also used Renaissance forms (about which Webern, too, was well informed:-) There is little or none of the neoclassical all redolent of the height of the classical era, either procedures or forms.

My pet peeve is where the pop music genre label makers have appropriated 'neoclassical' from the classical lexicon of terms while ignoring its actual meaning as defined, instead referring to any pop music that remotely has the sound of 'classical chord progression' as 'neoclasical,' lol.  Of course, the exponential rate of genres and sub-genres in pop music is so rapid that 'they' do have to grasp at straws in order to come up with some new defining terms. 
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Offline Alberich

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1067 on: Today at 06:01:34 AM »
Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.
"I am a shadowy reflection of you."

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1068 on: Today at 06:06:08 AM »
One of my favorite Stravinsky pieces, period:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/LudJWiMmZBY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/LudJWiMmZBY</a>
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1069 on: Today at 06:30:27 AM »
And with score:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34</a>
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1070 on: Today at 06:49:25 AM »
And with score:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34</a>

two different works Karl???? Ginko is your friend ;)
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1071 on: Today at 06:54:40 AM »
two different works Karl????

That's right  8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Chez Stravinsky porkovsky LES NOCES: AN ENEMA WITH AKVAVIT
« Reply #1072 on: Today at 07:06:51 AM »
The Song of Parasha is from Mavra, of course.

of course

Listened to a couple of minutes of the Porkovsky(?) 'Les Noces'... aye aye aye, my ears!!... lol, wow,... no... I can't take it (runs screaming from the room)... it's a weapon!!... sooo hallucinatory and cartoonish it could drive one mad... Bernstein sounds like patty-cake by comparison... it's like an enema with akvavit!!!!


Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

a
Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

Apollo and Orpheus leave you cold? And the Symphonies? Of course, Pulcinella is a different story...


btw- So- Pulcinella IS the ONLY place one will find Stravinsky "wig music"? I mean, THAT FORM of NeoClassicism... obviously 'Le Baiser' is modeled on a different type of re"hash", and the 'Dumbarton' is Bach, and The Rake is "elizabethan", ... and then the Mass would be NeoSacred...

My point is- "NeoClassicism" doesn't necessarily mean it HAS to sound like faux Bach (but, it mostly does- and then when The Beatles et al did it they used the harpsichord to strengthen the idea (and the costumes)

NeoClassicism in Pop really only lasted one year, eh? 1967-


I'm just saying there's IS NeoClass I like (Apollo), and some I don't (Pulcinella)... it's the "obvious" kind (the latter) that always seems to grate (cue some Martinu...)


I do think IS can be credited for re-inventing the C chord (with those splayed dispositions).


That's right  8)

par for the course :laugh:

I MUST draw your attention to the Alexej Gorlatch SONY release of the Piano Concerto and Capriccio. It IS the best I've ever heard... the sound... and his playing is phenomenal for the pieces... oh, the winds in the PC can all be heard for a change... anyhow, had to gush
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Offline Alberich

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Re: Chez Stravinsky porkovsky LES NOCES: AN ENEMA WITH AKVAVIT
« Reply #1073 on: Today at 07:16:23 AM »
Apollo and Orpheus leave you cold? And the Symphonies? Of course, Pulcinella is a different story...

Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:18:53 AM by Alberich »
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Offline North Star

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Re: Chez Stravinsky porkovsky LES NOCES: AN ENEMA WITH AKVAVIT
« Reply #1074 on: Today at 07:23:31 AM »
Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.
Tried Duo concertant?
« Last Edit: Today at 07:25:56 AM by North Star »
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Offline Alberich

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1075 on: Today at 07:26:40 AM »
Yes. Did not make much of an impression on me.
"I am a shadowy reflection of you."

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1076 on: Today at 07:47:00 AM »
of course

Listened to a couple of minutes of the [Pokrovsky] 'Les Noces'... aye aye aye, my ears!!... lol, wow,... no... I can't take it (runs screaming from the room)... it's a weapon!!... sooo hallucinatory and cartoonish it could drive one mad... Bernstein sounds like patty-cake by comparison... it's like an enema with akvavit!!!!

FTFY . . . your ears are right, here, and an enema with akvavit is a phrase which will endure in musicological circles as long as Les noces is discussed . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Chez Stravinsky
« Reply #1077 on: Today at 07:47:45 AM »
Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.

Well, all right!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

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