Author Topic: Charles Ives  (Read 52044 times)

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karlhenning

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 06:37:18 AM »
In one of those wonderful mash-ups which the ad-bots sometimes cook up for us, I was delighted to see the caption See Ives in a New Light improbably gracing Lempicka's Lady in Green  8)

Edit :: typos
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 06:42:55 AM by karlhenning »

Joe Barron

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 08:57:35 AM »
In one of those wonderful mash-ups which the ad-bots sometimes cook up for us, I was delighted to see the caption See Ives in a New Light improbably gracing Lempicka's Lady in Green  8)

Edit :: typos

I have no idea what this means.  ???

Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2008, 06:39:37 PM »
Recording of a reconstruction of the third orchestral set along with new versions of the other sets to be released on Naxos in Spring:

http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?pn=News&displayMenu=Naxos_News&op=223

Not sure I agree that there has never been a great recording of the second orchestral set - Tilson-Thomas is pretty special.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 07:00:43 PM by Guido »
Geologist.

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Joe Barron

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2008, 07:13:51 PM »
Not sure I agree that there has never been a great recording of the second orchestral set - Tilson-Thomas is pretty special.

So is Stokowski's. It was the performance that made me fall in love with the piece.

Offline andy

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 08:21:07 PM »
Anyone have recommendations for recordings of Ive's Concord Sonata?

I have Aimard's very and think it's great of course, but I have nothing to compare it to!

For anyone who's a fan of Ives, I suggest giving the Concord Sonata a listen if you haven't heard it. I personally feel it's one of the best solo piano works of the 20th century, up there with Ligeti's Etudes and Messiaen's Vingt Regards.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 08:29:35 PM by andy »

Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2008, 06:44:02 AM »
Could anyone call themselves an Ives fan if they hadn't heard it?! :)

There are lots of very good recordings of this piece, and while I think owning multiple versions of many pieces of music is a waste of time (even sometimes very good pieces), this is surely one where it makes sense to hear many versions as every player will have to make it very much their own. There is a superb discussion of different versions here, and I tend to agree with the author's conlusions:

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/RR_Piano_Sonata_2.htm

It also has great discussions of the best versions of virtually all of Ives works.

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/03_Recordings_Main_Menu.htm
Geologist.

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Offline andy

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2008, 07:31:13 AM »
Could anyone call themselves an Ives fan if they hadn't heard it?! :)

There are lots of very good recordings of this piece, and while I think owning multiple versions of many pieces of music is a waste of time (even sometimes very good pieces), this is surely one where it makes sense to hear many versions as every player will have to make it very much their own. There is a superb discussion of different versions here, and I tend to agree with the author's conlusions:

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/RR_Piano_Sonata_2.htm

It also has great discussions of the best versions of virtually all of Ives works.

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/03_Recordings_Main_Menu.htm

Great links! Thank you Guido.

And I agree with the multiple versions of the same piece. I am ordinarily against it since I would rather hear a new piece rather than a slightly different interpretation, but I feel the Concord Sonata deserves at least one more recording in my collection. And true, you can't really be an Ives fan if you haven't heard the Concord ;)

Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2008, 09:22:11 AM »
Glad that someone agrees with me on this in this forum - I'll never understand the need to have 60 versions of Brahm violin concerto...
Geologist.

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Joe Barron

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2008, 09:41:01 AM »
Glad that someone agrees with me on this in this forum - I'll never understand the need to have 60 versions of Brahm violin concerto...

Humph!  >:( You make a valid point. Still, I am looking forward to the release of Sinclair's "Three Places," which will be, I guess, my fifth or sixth version of the piece. And I do have all nine recordings of Carter's Night Fantasies.

As for the Concord: My first and favorite version --- by John Kirkpatrick, recorded for Columbia --- has not been released on CD. I have several other recordings, and they're all good. I can't recommend one over another. Hamelin's is great. So is Aimard's. And Mandell's. And Kalish's. And Nina Desutsch's. And Stephen Mayers'. And Herbert Henck's. And ... arrggh! I have got to get a life.  :-\

paulb

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 10:33:58 AM »
Glad that someone agrees with me on this in this forum - I'll never understand the need to have 60 versions of Brahm violin concerto...

the only Brahms vc i would consider listening to is one of the 3 or 4 from Oistrakh, he really loved the Brahms vc.
I listened to the Ives Holiday's Sym, Dohnanyi/Cleveland and Thomas/Boston. I found the Dohnanyi preferable. I got the Dohnanyi for the Ives pieces, but the surprise was the Ruggles, Men and Mountains.

I'll look to see if i have the concord sonata, don't think i do. I;'d like to hear the Ives works in concert to be drawn more deeply into the music. I think ves is one of those composers severly limited by the cd, the concert hall giving complete ambience to his spacious textures.

Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2008, 11:46:08 AM »
Actually seeing the Fourth Symphony live for me was a big let down, probably because of the awful accoustics of the Albert Hall.

Joe - I'm not saying that it is pointless for all pieces, and I am guilty of the same thing with a two pieces myself (eg.Barber cello concerto - 12, Three places in New England - 7, some of them bought as part of other sets and therefor not always intentional. Oh and I must have countless Dvorak concertos that I havent heard as part of cello boxed sets.)... but this fetishisation of having multiple recordings of the same piece is something that I think gets completely out of hand.

The new recording of the Three Places is a new version actually, that hasn't been recorded before - It's the first version that was played - the 'nice version' where Ives removed much of the complexity and dissonance, to try and gain a bit more acceptance for such radical music. I am also greatly looking forward to this release! Apparently there is a never heard before Overture in G (by Ives) that Sinclair recently recorded too, but I am not sure whether it will be on this CD or on another one.
Geologist.

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Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2008, 02:54:19 PM »
Sinclair says the Overture in G minor will be on a CD released in early 2009 along with the remaining movements of the holiday symphony that Naxos haven't released yet, as well as two other miniatures.

Apparently he will be recording the Porter completion of the Universe Symphony in  2010. Porter's is the only one which does no additional composition of his own - so the piece as a whole is not complete, but the sections that he sketched out and made sufficiently precise indications as to what he intended, are all there. A facsimile and transcription of the original Universe materials will eventually be published, though the time scale for such an endeavour is not yet known.
Geologist.

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Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2008, 06:34:33 PM »
Oh and why, oh why, will they not release Kirkpatrick's recording of the Concord Sonata on CD??!! To not have the last centuries most important Ives' scholar's own recording out seems ludicrous especially when its such a good recording. Mental. I sometimes despair at record companies decisions.
Geologist.

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Offline andy

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2008, 08:58:13 AM »
Oh and why, oh why, will they not release Kirkpatrick's recording of the Concord Sonata on CD??!! To not have the last centuries most important Ives' scholar's own recording out seems ludicrous especially when its such a good recording. Mental. I sometimes despair at record companies decisions.

It does seem like it wouldn't cost much on their part, maybe just a bit for the analog to digital conversion. And if they don't want to press the cds, they could sell it as mp3s with near-zero distribution costs. Seems silly that record companies don't...

Offline MishaK

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2008, 02:29:04 PM »
For those in or near Chicago, Tilson Thomas will be doing New England Holidays with the CSO, May 29, 30, 31.

Offline Guido

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2008, 08:09:34 AM »
Irritatingly, the new Naxos recording is not scheduled for release in March, so I guess it will be April now...
Geologist.

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Online The new erato

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2008, 01:41:58 AM »
I sometimes despair at record companies decisions.
Decisions? They throw dices when they decide on their reissues. I thought that was well known. How long have you ben buying classical records?

Offline Earthlight

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2008, 05:32:28 PM »
There is a superb discussion of different versions here, and I tend to agree with the author's conlusions:

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/RR_Piano_Sonata_2.htm

That was an interesting article. I haven't heard all the versions, but I would rate Kalish and Mandel higher than he did. Kalish brings a special warmth and a type of intimacy that helped sell me on the Concord years ago, and that recording has held up for me ever since. Kalish is also the one that never seems to go out of print; it's a short CD, with no pairing, but it's midpriced and the sound is just fine.

Mandel isn't as warm, but through repeated listenings I've heard a lot of subtleties and gotten more of a sense of many of the myriad things Ives was throwing at us, so I can't agree that Mandel lacks insight. I wouldn't want to be without it, and I agree with the MusicWeb reviewer that the rest of it -- three well-packed CDs worth -- is just great. It's OOP and available only as a download on eMusic, but the sound quality was kind of cold and plinky to begin with, so the conversion to .mp3 shouldn't hurt much.

Gottlieb and Lubimov are both well worth hearing.

I really didn't relate that well to Coleman's approach (though I've only played that one 3 or 4 times and it deserves another few) or Trythall, who I find to be hesitant and unpoetic here (though I've liked him in other repertoire, including his own compositions). Easley Blackwood is a virtuoso and the Centaur recording is sonically luxurious, but I still don't like it. He missed the humor, or the soul, or something.

There's a recording by Manfred Reinelt that's been on BRO for about a million years. Mono, scratchy in places, and an erratic performance in patches (the 4th movement wanders all over the place without getting there), but highly recommended anyway for the most hallucinatory, edge-of-sanity 2nd movement I've ever heard.

I don't need 60 versions of anything else  :); the Concord Sonata is really the only piece of music that compels me to collect as many versions as I can get my grubby paws on.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 05:34:22 PM by Earthlight »

Joe Barron

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2008, 06:20:40 PM »
MY God --- I know only a few of the performances reviewed on that site.   :-[

Offline edward

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Re: Charles Ives
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2008, 06:44:29 PM »
And I'm a complete newbie by comparison: I have Mandel, Lubimov and Aimard--no-one else.

Which reminds me, I should revisit this sonata: haven't done so for a while.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

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