Topic: Charles Ives

[Scarpia]

I think the Ives passage is at least as intelligible as a lot of the Transcendentalist writings that influenced it. I mean, it's easily paraphrased as "the music of the future will express meanings that transcend boundaries of language." Do you know the Essays from which this bit is extracted? They're a great read unless you have absolutely no patience with Ives' patterns of thought.

Well, I don't find Ive's patterns of thought, as expressed in his music, fascinate me much, so the essays are far down on my list.  How about "If it sounds good, it is good."

[PaulSC]

How about "If it sounds good, it is good."

Sounds good!

[jowcol]

Well, I don't find Ive's patterns of thought, as expressed in his music, fascinate me much, so the essays are far down on my list.  How about "If it sounds good, it is good."

Not bad.  I may use that.   

[Guido]

A vague awareness of the writings at least can pay dividends with this music though - so many fascinating thoughts, and it's not at all spurious in terms of its relationship to the music - you really hear what he's saying in the notes!

[karlhenning]

"Brainyquote" — the very name seems to promise all the intellectual accountability naturally attributed to cyberspace …

[snyprrr]

Robert Battey (style@washpost.com), in The Washington Post, wrote today (in a Hilary Hahn article), that Ives was a "second-tier" American Composer. I leave the address for you. Idiot.

[Mirror Image]

Robert Battey (style@washpost.com), in The Washington Post, wrote today (in a Hilary Hahn article), that Ives was a "second-tier" American Composer. I leave the address for you. Idiot.

Clearly this Robert Battey doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. Totally clueless like most journalists.

[mc ukrneal]

Robert Battey (style@washpost.com), in The Washington Post, wrote today (in a Hilary Hahn article), that Ives was a "second-tier" American Composer. I leave the address for you. Idiot.

Depends what he meant and context. If by second tier he meant quality, that is an issue. If he meant popularity or such, well he is second-tier (but this says nothing of his composing, just how well he is known).

[Guido]

Lol! I know this guy... he's a cellist. He always said that Ives never developed his ideas furthur than Central Park in the Dark. It's not even worth discussing this sort of ignorance! In general his musical views are fairly moderate, reasonable, conservative.

[Mirror Image]

Lol! I know this guy...It's not even worth discussing this sort of ignorance!

I agree it's not even worth discussing.

[snyprrr]

Robert Battey (style@washpost.com), in The Washington Post, wrote today (in a Hilary Hahn article), that Ives was a "second-tier" American Composer. I leave the address for you. Idiot.

Hahn was playing a recital, which included two "second-tier" American Composers, Ives and Anthiel(?). I guess the point that got me was lumping them two together like that. Maybe that clears it up.

[karlhenning]

I think there is an idea or two worth pursuing in here.

I read a story once of a Music History class in which a sophomore (iconic, that) bridled at spending class time dedicated to studying Mendelssohn. “Wasn’t he a Grade-B composer?”  The teacher considered the objection for a second before replying, “Yes, but I’m not sure you understand how very good that is.”

The discussion here has proceeded upon a certain resonance of what was meant by “second-tier” composer; it is rejected, because it is taken as essentially signifying insufficiency — and no Ives enthusiast could bear such an implication!

But if we step back, and understand first of all that there is no incompatibility between a composer being “second-tier,” and his having written quite a few works of signal excellence . . . I should think that even a great fan of Ives’s should entertain the idea that Ives was not in the very first rank of composers.  (And please, let’s not ‘handicap’ him because he was an American . . . “There are so few American composers, of course Ives is first-tier!”)
 
(Separately, I shouldn’t think there would be much controversy in filtering Antheil from the first tier.) ; )

[Guido]

I think the point of contention is that Antheil not in the same league as Ives, and the lazy and insulting grouping of them together as second teir (which seems to denegrate Ives more than it elevates Antheil. And this because we care about Ives so much more than Antheil)

[Scarpia]

I think the point of contention is that Antheil not in the same league as Ives, and the lazy and insulting grouping of them together as second teir (which seems to denegrate Ives more than it elevates Antheil. And this because we care about Ives so much more than Antheil)

I agree, Antheil is definitely third teir.   

[snyprrr]

I agree, Antheil is definitely third teir.   

FINALLY!!

[some guy]

I just bought the Wergo Earle Brown set that includes Ives' Concord Sonata played by Aloys Kontarsky. In LP days, when I was poor, I had the Kilpatrick, which unaccountably (and unforgivably) does not include the flute or viola parts, and was quite happy with it. I got the Kalish much later, for the flute and viola, and wasn't much taken with the whole venture. Then I stopped buying versions of the Concord.

Until yesterday. And the Kontarsky, which I had known about but never heard, is fabulous. And the flute and viola parts are played as if they really belonged.

Plus, since this is a three disc set, you also get that outrageous Sonic Arts Union disc of Ashley, Mumma, Lucier, and Behrman and a disc of music for flute and piano by Evangelisti, Berio, Matsudaira, Castiglioni, Messiaen, and Maderna.

[karlhenning]

I guess I really need to fetch in that Ives Psalms disc . . . I mean, as a composer who in New England who has set some few Psalms to original music, myself.

[Brewski]

Just found out that Hilary Hahn will release a DG recording of all four Ives Violin Sonatas, with Valentina Lisitsa on piano, on October 11. More information is here.

--Bruce

[lescamil]

Just found out that Hilary Hahn will release a DG recording of all four Ives Violin Sonatas, with Valentina Lisitsa on piano, on October 11. More information is here.

--Bruce

I'm really dreading hearing a myopic standard repertoire specialist like Lisitsa playing Ives. She should stick to Romantic warhorses, in my opinion. I'll probably check out her recording anyways, though. I'm not too excited about Hahn either.

[Guido]

Nice to have such a mainstream artist recording this rep. Might even get it! The four violin sonatas are hardly my favourite Ives (some of the few works of his that I don't adore), but I owe them a fresh look.