Author Topic: Beethoven Missa Solemnis  (Read 35949 times)

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Haffner

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Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« on: November 25, 2007, 10:07:00 AM »
Anyone love this recording best?

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 10:15:45 AM »
Assuming the question isn't merely rhetorical...then no.

For me Jochum/Concertgebouw takes the blue ribbon. :)



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Haffner

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 10:19:09 AM »
Assuming the question isn't merely rhetorical...then no.

For me Jochum/Concertgebouw takes the blue ribbon. :)








Hey I havent heard that one! Hip?

Offline Que

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 10:23:38 AM »



Hey I havent heard that one! Hip?

Not HIP, but OOP.... :-\

the Kubelik is supposed to be excellent as well?

To comment on the recordings I do know: Klemperer - not entirely satisfactory; Gardiner - off target (way off); Harnoncourt - the NH I don't like: eccentric, too self-conscious, stiff.

Result: no ideal "Missa"...yet. :'(

Q
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 10:27:52 AM by Que »
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Haffner

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 10:24:44 AM »
Not HIP, but OOP.... :-\

the Kubelik is supposed to be excellent as well?

Q




Now I feel like I'm way behind. I'm not familiar with that one either. I really love the big sound of the Klemperer, amazing considering the age of the performance.

Offline edward

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 10:33:16 AM »
To comment on the recordings I do know: Klemperer - not entirely satisfactory; Gardiner - off target (way off); Harnoncourt - the NH I don't like: eccentric, too self-conscious, stiff.

Result: no ideal "Missa"...yet. :'(

Q
Thanks for writing my post for me. :)
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
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Haffner

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 10:36:23 AM »
This reccomendation might seem like a Dark Horse thing...but Barshai's live rendition is quite good...and only 1.97 U.S. on Amazon!

Offline rubio

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 11:00:06 AM »
Assuming the question isn't merely rhetorical...then no.

For me Jochum/Concertgebouw takes the blue ribbon. :)

At least Arkiv Music has reissued it. Not super-cheap though.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=858&name_role1=1&name_id2=56261&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=2063

“One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain” Bob Marley

Offline AnthonyAthletic

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 11:35:37 AM »
I find the Klemerer an 'essential' listen and one of my favourites.

Pretty near the top and definetely in my top 3 is Szell live with Cleveland in Cleveland from his long oop set, Szell Centennia CD:3.  Hard to find but worth digging out  ;)  Amazing performance.

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying"      (Arthur C. Clarke)

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 11:36:07 AM »

Hey I havent heard that one! Hip?

Yeah, like Q said, Jochum is very traditional.

But in the Missa I enjoy that. Most times I like a little classical restraint in my Beethoven but I'm really fond of Jochum's grand manner here and how it all translates into a sort of mysticism. Shivers and all that...

Glad to see it's now on ArkivMusic. A mite expensive but creativeness can take care of that. 8)


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline knight66

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 12:05:19 PM »
I find the Klemerer an 'essential' listen and one of my favourites.

Pretty near the top and definitely in my top 3 is Szell live with Cleveland in Cleveland from his long oop set, Szell Centennia CD:3.  Hard to find but worth digging out  ;)  Amazing performance.

I am with Tony here....though if you cannot find the Szell; there are other excellent versions. I don't really respond to the Klemperer EMI performance, I just cannot take Soderstrom's voice. To listen to such as Margaret Price on Bohm, or Janowitz on the first Karajan is to understand what you are missing. It mayjust be one part of the whole, but it is a vital one. I don't recommend the Bohm as an overall winner. Karajan I like a great deal. Levine's has a marvelous second half. Gardiner leaves me cold and Herreweghe leaves out all the sweat and effort, it sounds way too easy.

Toscanini is excellent and energises the music like almost no one else. Bernstein's version on DG is an excellent all rounder, in balancing the energy and repose, excellent soloists. I have a lot of affection for Giulini on EMI, but the drama is muted.

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Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2007, 12:20:03 PM »
At least Arkiv Music has reissued it. Not super-cheap though.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=858&name_role1=1&name_id2=56261&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=2063



This should be reissued on a single disc really: it's only 80 minutes long. A tremendously exciting and beautiful performance. The Benedictus with its violin solo is pure magic.

There are two commercial Klemperer performances. The first one was issued on Vox and as with all his Vienna Symphony 1950s Vox recordings, it's much faster, blunter and dramatic thean the stereo remakes. You would never imagine they're from the same conductor.

Offline knight66

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2007, 12:34:07 PM »
Andre, I have that earlier Klemperer disc, I got in on 'Turnabout', which is connected to Vox, and there is next to no information on the recording. It is certainly fairly rough and ready; it has the feel of a live performance, sinew rather than packed out muscle. Worth catching as long as gritty sound is acceptable.

Mike
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Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2007, 12:42:08 PM »
Soiloists are Ilona Steingruber, Else schurhoff, Erich Majkut and Otto Wiener (the only one with a really good voice). With the Vienna Symphony, recorded 1951. The cover  is from Vox, but there must have been a licensing agreement between turnabout and Vox. They often shared some material and artists.

Offline AnthonyAthletic

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2007, 12:45:43 PM »
I have just recently listened to Norrington's Missa, a decent enough recording in superb sound.  The violin solo in the Benedictus beautifully played, Beethoven could have made a mountain of this lovely theme which appears from nowhere, a beautiful moment of inner calm jammed inbetween the one of the most glorious works ever penned.

Amanda Halgrimson (Soprano), Cornelia Kallisch (Alto), Alastair Miles (Bass), John Aler (Tenor)
SWR Sinfonieorchester

A cast I am not familiar with bar John Aler, Miles sings admirably throughout and is a delight in the Agnus Dei.

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying"      (Arthur C. Clarke)

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 12:59:19 PM »
A really special experience is had when the bass can sing the low notes in the Agnus' first phrases (at "Dei"). Not many have the seemingly bottomless depth this calls for. In my experience, only Moll, Talvela and Siepi had. I'm always surprised that the Wotans, Hundings and Hagens of 1950s and 1960s Bayreuth weren't recorded in the part.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2007, 01:08:08 PM »
Soiloists are Ilona Steingruber, Else schurhoff, Erich Majkut and Otto Wiener (the only one with a really good voice). With the Vienna Symphony, recorded 1951. The cover  is from Vox, but there must have been a licensing agreement between turnabout and Vox. They often shared some material and artists.

Available here:
http://www.cd101.net/

in a 2CD set also containing the 5th and 6th Symphony with the same orchester. $ 15 for the set.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 01:35:45 PM by premont »
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Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2007, 01:29:39 PM »
That's good. But I wouldn't spend premium money on those. Great as the maestro's reputation is, he was working with inferior orchestras back then, and technical conditions were primitive. I'm pretty sure the reason he went back in the studios was the dramatically improved standards just 10 years had brought. He must have felt in heaven.

Offline dirkronk

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2007, 08:28:33 PM »
It's been a while since I did a spinoff of this piece, but the performances that survived the last one were Karajan/Philharmonia 1958 with Schwarzkopf et al (on vinyl--which I liked better than the Klemperer or either of Karajan's later renditions), Toscanini live 1940 (on CD) and studio from the early 1950s (on LP), and--only recently acquired--a download of Szell live Feb.1967 (a VERY compelling version, which I presume is the one mentioned earlier in this thread).

I'm keeping my eye open for the Jochum, however. Based on what I've read, I think I might like that one as well.

Cheers,

Dirk


Offline Wanderer

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 11:26:30 PM »
Karajan/Philharmonia 1958 with Schwarzkopf et al

I particularly like this one, myself. It's been re-released on Testament, parts of the rehearsal sessions and a small interview with Schwarzkopf included and coupled with a fine "Prager" Symphony. Karajan's later interpretation with Cuberli, Schmidt, Cole, van Dam I feel is a lesser achievement.
Levine, as Mike said, is particularly impressive in the second part (Sanctus-Benedictus-Agnus Dei) and overall a very good, big-scale rendition. Giulini is also quite good.
Harnoncourt's version is a very recent acquisition and haven't listened to it properly...yet.

Now, I'm intrigued by comments made about the Szell and Karajan/Janowitz versions...