Author Topic: Beethoven Missa Solemnis  (Read 36694 times)

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Offline val

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2007, 01:56:14 AM »
To me, Klemperer's version is the one with better cohesion and spirituality.

But Karajan, with Janowitz, Christa Ludwig, Wunderlich, has the better soloists.

The version of Gardiner is interesting, very clear, with a fast tempo and a splendid choir. But it seems very superficial.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2007, 02:02:49 AM »

The version of Gardiner is interesting, very clear, with a fast tempo and a splendid choir. But it seems very superficial.

The version of Goodman/Kvam (Nimbus), on the other hand, cannot be superficial - it is cavernous.   ;)
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Offline dirkronk

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2007, 04:39:00 AM »
Another version which I failed to list (mea culpa), but which still occupies a place on my shelves, is Bernstein/Concertgebouw on DGG LP. This was pieced together from live performances, but the result is impressive, at least IMO. Concertmaster Herman Krebbers was on a roll during the time this recording was made, and his violin work in the Benedictus is quite beautiful.

Dirk
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 07:16:50 AM by dirkronk »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2007, 08:19:24 AM »
Anyone love this recording best?

Yes, I do.

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Haffner

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2007, 08:38:06 AM »
Yes, I do.

Sarge






Could you be a little more straightforward, Sarge  ;)? (laughing)

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 12:46:32 PM »


I have this version of the Missa Solemnis by Herreweghe on Harmonia Mundi. This is not a CD i go back to often, not sure if this is down to the work not engaging me, or the version itself; As it is the only version i have, my judgement is stopped short, but to this recording's credit, this is at the top end of my collection in terms of the singing quality, and the sound is just astoundingly clear and detailed, especially for a live recording.

I would be interesting in hearing other opinions on this one.

 :)



Olivier

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 04:33:44 PM »
It is very good indeed (better than other HIP versions). But I'm looking for qualities of drama and monumentality that are alien to the HIP aesthetic: it is too light and fast for my taste.

Offline alkan

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2007, 02:06:27 AM »
I have Klemperer on EMI.     It's the first version I heard and it remains the definitive version for me.      It just rings true and it conveys a sense of struggle and spirituality that is by turns uplifting and touching.        I have heard a few other versions  (although not the ones that have been highly recommended in this thread) and they all sound superficial by comparison   (despite better singers, recording, etc).

One of my favourite moments, where I think Klemperer is unique, is the end of the Gloria.     Instead of trying to whip up excitement by going fast, Klemperer maintains an absolutely steady and slowish pace as the music grinds through an amazing and hair-raising series of key changes.      I can still remember the thrill and astonishment of hearing this for the first time ..... each time it seemed that the tension could not go any higher Beethoven found a new gear, ....  again and again.    And with Klemperer's steady tempo there is a sense of monumentality and power that makes it an overwhelming experience.   

Out of curiosity I listen to other performances when I can, but I do not expect to ever find anything to replace Klemp.     
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Offline Mozart

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2008, 08:28:04 PM »
I was thinking of exploring this piece, I've never even bothered to give it a listen. Can I get some good recommendations (preferably hip) and possibly some suggestions on which part of it to tackle first?
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Online Tsaraslondon

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2008, 08:48:57 PM »
Oddly enough I was just listening to this yesterday - the Gardiner version , which is an excellent HIP version.



It's all worth listening to, so I'd just start at the arresting opening and work through. The Sanctus is particularly beautiful, as a solo violin weaves a melody of ineffable sweetness, which emerges from the chorus's muttering of the words Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini


« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 08:50:30 PM by Tsaraslondon »
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Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2008, 09:56:20 PM »
I agree: Gardiner's is quite good.  I have a fondness for the Hanover Band's, however, and prefer their effort.  Not exactly accurate since they use baroque instruments, but a truly excellent sound is achieved.



I may be one of the few that thinks this is Beethoven's greatest work.  Here's a funny anecdote about the composition of the Credo, told by Anton Schindler:

...It was four o'clock in the afternoon. As soon as we entered we were told that both Beethoven's maids had left that morning and that there had occurred after midnight an uproar that had disturbed everyone in the house because, having waited so long, both maids had gone to sleep and the meal they had prepared was inedible. From behind the closed door of one of the parlours we could hear the master working on the fugue of the Credo, singing, yelling, stamping his feet. When we had heard enough of this almost frightening performance and were about to depart, the door opened and Beethoven stood before us, his features distorted to the point of inspiring terror. He looked as though he had just engaged in a life and death struggle with the whole army of contrapuntists, his everlasting enemies. His first words were confused, as if he felt embarrassed at having been overheard...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 10:00:21 PM by Sorin Eushayson »

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2008, 12:13:03 AM »
I may be one of the few that thinks this is Beethoven's greatest work. 

That makes two of us. Missa Solemnis and late String Quartets are the best of Beethoven to me.
I have this version (I think it's pretty good):

« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 02:38:44 AM by Que »
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Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2008, 02:35:31 AM »
If you like your Beethoven at his most titanic, this is it:



Alkan puts the case very well.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 12:00:12 AM by Jezetha »
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Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 03:46:58 PM »
I was thinking of exploring this piece, I've never even bothered to give it a listen. Can I get some good recommendations (preferably hip) and possibly some suggestions on which part of it to tackle first?

What makes you lean toward hip performances if you never heard it in the first place?

I suggest you tackle the first part (Kyrie) and see where that leads you. The Kyrie is an immensely fervent and powerful piece. Normally you should be impressed enough to keep listening at least until the end of the Gloria. At that point you'll either be exhilarated or exhausted and that will dictate the course of your listening.

Offline adamdavid80

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2008, 01:38:39 PM »
I'm only familiar with the Gardiner version, which I am hugely satisfied with, to the point I've never considered the need for another version...I'm surprised there are many who think little of it.  What the hey?

(So much so that I was going to head off to pick up his reading of Haydn's Creation after work today...)
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Haffner

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2008, 05:07:28 AM »
If you like your Beethoven at his most titanic, this is it:



Alkan puts the case very well.



That's the only Missa... I own. Or probably will ever own. I liked the Gardiner though.

Offline Bunny

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2008, 06:07:12 AM »
I've always loved Lennie's recording with the Concertgebouw, but hesitate to recommend it because I haven't listened to it in years.  I recently have discovered that either my memories aren't so reliable or that my taste may have changed over the years so that old favorites are now un-favorites.  The MS recordings are very tricky.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2008, 02:19:49 PM »
Bunny, in that particular case your memory doesn't fail you. The Bernstein Amsterdam Missa (on one budget priced cd) is magnificent.

Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2008, 03:56:23 PM »
Well, if we're going down the modern performance road (long overgrown and underkept in my neck of the woods ;) ) then I'll note two version that I found well-done: Karajan's with the BPO and Toscanini's with the NBCSO.  Karajan takes the 'awe-and-wonder' approach, which for him means slowing the tempo way down.  I can't really stand it anymore compared to Gardiner's or the Hanover Band's, but I can see why some would like it.  Toscanini's is a little more vivacious; not bad, that one.

P.S. I'll have to check out that Herreweghe, didn't know about it before.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 03:58:35 PM by Sorin Eushayson »

Offline Bunny

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Re: Beethoven Missa Solemnis
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2008, 04:06:36 PM »
Bunny, in that particular case your memory doesn't fail you. The Bernstein Amsterdam Missa (on one budget priced cd) is magnificent.

Good to know that the old brain wasn't having another senior moment ::)

In any event, I gave the cd a spin and was happy to learn that it lived up to my memories. :D

Btw, my recording is a "panorama" with his 9th with the WP.  That was one powerful pairing from DG.  The 9th also lived up to my memories. Yay!

As for budget, you know the Missa was recently remastered and they are asking $18.00 for it new.   :P