Author Topic: Bach Goldberg Variations  (Read 42742 times)

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Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #280 on: August 09, 2018, 11:34:54 PM »
So, Rubsam's recent GV is put out by Naxos instead of the private label for his WTC.  Nice.  Listening now.

He's also released transcriptions of the solo violin sonatas/partitas and the cello suites.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:37:40 PM by San Antone »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #281 on: August 10, 2018, 12:52:02 AM »
Apparently not (though the site is not a 100% garantee...).

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Watchorn.htm

I suppose Watchorn's website (Musica Omnia) is more reliable:

http://www.musicaomnia.org/artist/peter-watchorn/

He has announced some years ago, that he plans a complete Bach harpsichord traversal (incl. AoF).
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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #282 on: August 10, 2018, 12:55:57 AM »
It is meditative. No repeats. Well recorded.

Well, some repeats. The most reflective interpretation I ever heard.

I think it [Rübsam GV] is outstanding and individual without being idiosyncratic.
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Offline aukhawk

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #283 on: August 10, 2018, 01:27:17 AM »
So, Rubsam's recent GV is put out by Naxos instead of the private label for his WTC.  Nice.  Listening now.
He's also released transcriptions of the solo violin sonatas/partitas and the cello suites.

I found the cello transcriptions an uninteresting listen.  Because this is after all as Lipkind has it, "single voice polyphony",  and so expanding it on a fully polyphonic instrument kinda fights against the whole point of the music, IMHO.  I want those unheard missing notes to be generated inside my brain, not have them pumped in through my eardrums.  It's like stating the obvious.

The violin transcriptions seem to work a lot better, for similar reasons, much of it is more genuinely polyphonic music in the first place. 

Offline amw

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #284 on: August 10, 2018, 02:00:23 AM »
Well, some repeats. The most reflective interpretation I ever heard.

I think it [Rübsam GV] is outstanding and individual without being idiosyncratic.
I listened from the beginning through variation 7ish and realised that as a listener, I don't really like the rubato created by staggering the voices, but when I'm playing the piano I do that all the time for expression and stuff. It was somewhat enlightening and I guess it's a good thing I don't have to listen to my own playing lol

Offline milk

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #285 on: August 10, 2018, 04:03:49 AM »
I'm sure they'll put anything he's written online eventually.
Looks like there are no notes from Rubsam although he’s been writing short descriptions on his FB page. My first reaction to the GBV was that the WTC stuff worked better. But I’m listening again now and it’s growing on me a bit. I think Vartolo compares favorably to Rubsam because the approach may be similar but seems to hang together more easily. Let’s see. Take Vs 7 and 8 for examples. Don’t they seem reliant on rhythmic moves that Rubsam is bent on subverting? Let me give it more time though. So far it’s sometimes awkward whereas WTC came off as immediately more natural.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #286 on: August 10, 2018, 05:07:58 AM »
Imagine there are two lute players, and ask yourself, is it an interactive, responsive duet? In Var7 I’d say yes.

My own feeling is that he makes the music sound ancient and improvised, and that you sense he’s digging deep as it were. This is all a good stuff,  stimulating to me but I can well imagine that some people will be thoroughly pissed off by it and will die of boredom. This is why I suggest it’s good to take it in small doses.

I bet the harpsichord is equally tuned. Shame, because the harmonies would have been better with something like Lehman tuning.

The big question, at the risk of causing offence I’ll say it, is whether it’s self indulgent. I mean poetic and beautifully executed, but Rubsam’s vision more than Bach’s. At some point it would be interesting to explore that.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:15:11 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #287 on: August 10, 2018, 07:16:24 AM »
The big question, at the risk of causing offence I’ll say it, is whether it’s self indulgent. I mean poetic and beautifully executed, but Rubsam’s vision more than Bach’s. At some point it would be interesting to explore that.

I made the point in the HIP thread that his performances on lute harpsichord are more radical than any I've heard on piano.

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #288 on: August 10, 2018, 09:13:30 AM »
I bet the harpsichord is equally tuned. Shame, because the harmonies would have been better with something like Lehman tuning.

I bet it is Kirnberger III like his recording of the WTC,
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #289 on: August 10, 2018, 09:56:21 AM »
Just left the post below in the 'Listening Thread' which will disappear quickly -  ;D

So, for those interested in the use of a clavichord, Tuma & Tsalka seem to be the main choices at the moment - favor Tuma myself but not by much of a margin - Dave :)

Quote
Bach, JS - Goldberg Variations on clavichords:  Jaroslav Tuma vs. Michael Tsalka - both keyboardists play two different clavichords, which are modern reproductions as described in the quotes below - reviews of the Tsalka recording attached; could not find a Tuma review - I liked both performances which are well recorded; Tuma was somewhat smoother and less aggressive in his playing; Tsalka's instruments are more 'up front' in the recording - try to listen to snippets and/or check on Spotify before buying, if interested; plus, the Tuma recording is 2 discs w/ the Goldbergs also played on harpsichord.  Dave :)

Quote
Tuma's Clavichords: All three instruments used in the recording were built by Martin Kather in Hamburg - a large instrument built in 2002 and based on an original of 1761 by the organ-maker David Tannenberg, (whose parents came from Moravia) living at the end of the 18th century in Pennsylvania, was used for the recording of the Goldberg Variations as the first manual. It is what is known as the unbound type of clavichord with a range of six octaves CC – c4.  On top of it stood a small instrument with a range of 4? octaves AA-e3, which is a copy of a clavichord of 1787 built by Christian Gottlob Hubert of Ansbach. This copy, completed in  2004, is from the private collection of Diez Eichler.

Quote
Tsalka's Clavichords:For this recording, I chose two instruments built by Sebastian Niebler: a clavichord with a lyrical timbre, based on a 1796 instrument by Johann Christoph Georg Schiedmayer (now housed at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts) and a more robust instrument based on South German and Swedish models from the late 18th century (ie clavichords by Christian Gottlob Hubert, Jacob Specken and Johann Christoph Georg Schiedmayer). Some listeners might wonder if I had a system of assigning specific variations to each instrument. This was not the case; quite a few decisions were taken in the spur of the moment, an intuitive response to the technical and expressive requirements found in each variation.
.
 

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #290 on: August 10, 2018, 10:17:09 AM »
Just left the post below in the 'Listening Thread' which will disappear quickly -  ;D

So, for those interested in the use of a clavichord, Tuma & Tsalka seem to be the main choices at the moment - favor Tuma myself but not by much of a margin - Dave :)
.


There's another one, Benjamin Joseph Steens. Tuma, by the way, has made another clavichord recording which I like, of the Inventions. And his recording with Pachelbel and  Froberger on Supraphon is also rather good I think.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 10:29:37 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #291 on: August 10, 2018, 11:15:13 AM »
There's another one, Benjamin Joseph Steens. Tuma, by the way, has made another clavichord recording which I like, of the Inventions. And his recording with Pachelbel and  Froberger on Supraphon is also rather good I think.

Thanks - CD cover below - the Steens recording is on Spotify, so currently listening on my den stereo - a rather robust clavichord - some description below and a second pic which is Steens w/ the Potvilieghe instrument, I believe (LINK); enjoying this performance, too.  Dave :)

Quote
Benjamin-Joseph Steen has played the clavichord which is heard on this recording since his youth. It is a copy by Joris Potvlieghe of the great 18th century models and Steens wanted to record the Goldberg Variations on this instrument. The work was written for a two manual harpsichord but the clavichord is thought to have been the preferred instrument of the Bach family.

 

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #292 on: August 10, 2018, 09:14:41 PM »
Wolfgang Rubsam writes of his Goldberg Variations

Quote
The first commercial recording on a LAUTENWERK.
The instrument has GUT STRINGS and no DAMPERS.
JSB had two of these Lute-Like Keyboard instruments, conforming with
his desire of CANTABILE KEYBOARD PLAYING.

This recording is likely without any comparison and will contribute to a new understanding of this music, and beyond !!!
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Offline amw

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #293 on: August 10, 2018, 09:40:47 PM »
There's at least one other commercial recording on lautenwerk, by Gwendolyn Toth (Zefiro ZR103).

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #294 on: August 10, 2018, 11:21:32 PM »
There's at least one other commercial recording on lautenwerk, by Gwendolyn Toth (Zefiro ZR103).
Here

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/M-1yfmci-P0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/M-1yfmci-P0</a>



WR's email suggests that there's a connection between Lautenwerk and cantabile. Can anyone spell it out for me?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 11:27:17 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #295 on: August 10, 2018, 11:22:29 PM »
Wolfgang Rubsam writes of his Goldberg Variations

Quote
The first commercial recording on a LAUTENWERK.
The instrument has GUT STRINGS and no DAMPERS.
JSB had two of these Lute-Like Keyboard instruments, conforming with
his desire of CANTABILE KEYBOARD PLAYING.

This recording is likely without any comparison and will contribute to a new understanding of this music, and beyond !!!

WR's email suggests that there's a connection between Lautenwerk and cantabile. Can anyone spell it out for me?
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #296 on: August 11, 2018, 12:32:17 AM »
Here

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/M-1yfmci-P0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/M-1yfmci-P0</a>



WR's email suggests that there's a connection between Lautenwerk and cantabile. Can anyone spell it out for me?

The Lautenwerk can be played very non-cantabile, as Toth displays in this recording, which I even disliked so much, that I culled it.. It is all about the touch and the articulation.

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Offline milk

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #297 on: August 11, 2018, 02:40:53 AM »


WR's email suggests that there's a connection between Lautenwerk and cantabile. Can anyone spell it out for me?
Lautenwerk sound has quick decay, right? So the voices are the clearest and most distinct possible, no? I can see why this would have been appealing even in Bach's time. I would bet the Art of the Fugue would be a good next project for Rubsam. The Goldberg's are growing on me a bit but they're still not as interesting as the WTC, in themselves or in Rubsam's Lautenwerk. I'm sensing Rubsam's GV has some really great moments and like you said, especially in parts (rather than as taken as a whole?).

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #298 on: August 11, 2018, 02:58:11 AM »
Rubsam has already released the Art of Fugue in 2017


Offline milk

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Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #299 on: August 11, 2018, 03:10:41 AM »
Rubsam has already released the Art of Fugue in 2017


What?? How did I miss this. I will take this over to the other thread but I’m very eager to read reactions to this one.