Author Topic: Bach Goldberg Variations  (Read 51904 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Leon

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #160 on: February 22, 2012, 11:48:44 AM »
I recently got Murray Perahia's Goldberg Variations and listened to it start to finish.

I like it.

 :)

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1461
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bruckner, Bach, Handel, Beethoven
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #161 on: February 23, 2012, 06:48:16 AM »
I recently got Murray Perahia's Goldberg Variations and listened to it start to finish.

I like it.

 :)

Me too :)


Recently I got Zhu Xiao Mei's account and will be listening soon.
:)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 06:50:31 AM by Leo K »

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #162 on: February 23, 2012, 08:44:47 AM »
My Presto order arrived yesterday when I was at work, so I sat down this morning and listened to this, as there had been at least one request for a debriefing


Sonics--high quality--Performance--generally inclined to the lyrical mode, but not afraid of peppy passages.  Sometimes odd rubato, etc. was invoked, however.  The music of the GVs is not imprinted on my aural memory to the point that I could pick out what she was or was not doing in regards to ornamentation.  Overall first impression was favorable, but I don't expect this one to be my desert island choice.

(Harpsichord performance I'm comparing this against, in order of preference:  Rousset, Staier, Egarr.  Rannou probably falls at the same level or slightly below Staier.)

(also posting this to the general Bach harpsichord thread)

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1461
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bruckner, Bach, Handel, Beethoven
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #163 on: February 23, 2012, 09:25:24 AM »
My Presto order arrived yesterday when I was at work, so I sat down this morning and listened to this, as there had been at least one request for a debriefing


Sonics--high quality--Performance--generally inclined to the lyrical mode, but not afraid of peppy passages.  Sometimes odd rubato, etc. was invoked, however.  The music of the GVs is not imprinted on my aural memory to the point that I could pick out what she was or was not doing in regards to ornamentation.  Overall first impression was favorable, but I don't expect this one to be my desert island choice.

(Harpsichord performance I'm comparing this against, in order of preference:  Rousset, Staier, Egarr.  Rannou probably falls at the same level or slightly below Staier.)

(also posting this to the general Bach harpsichord thread)

Thanks for posting your thoughts on this disk.

 8)

Bulldog

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2012, 09:34:02 AM »
My Presto order arrived yesterday when I was at work, so I sat down this morning and listened to this, as there had been at least one request for a debriefing


Sonics--high quality--Performance--generally inclined to the lyrical mode, but not afraid of peppy passages.  Sometimes odd rubato, etc. was invoked, however.  The music of the GVs is not imprinted on my aural memory to the point that I could pick out what she was or was not doing in regards to ornamentation.  Overall first impression was favorable, but I don't expect this one to be my desert island choice.

It wouldn't be one of mine either.  As you point out, the rubato is often "odd", although I look at it a little differently.  The use of rubato/hesitations/ornamentation/staggering of musical lines tends to have one of two effects.  On the very positive side, it can enhance the emotional richness of the performance such as with David Cates and Alan Curtis in their respective recordings of the French Suites; the negative is that these devices can attract attention to themselves and damage rhythmic flow.  At this point, I'd have to say that Rannou's usage has a negative impact.  However, I'm far from reaching a conclusion and will continue to hope that the "lightbulb" goes on in my head.

Offline Clever Hans

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 229
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #165 on: February 23, 2012, 01:17:06 PM »
I quite like her French Suites.

Bulldog

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #166 on: February 23, 2012, 01:38:36 PM »
I quite like her French Suites.

I do also.  It's a gorgeous set of performances and I especially love her exuberance in the fast movements and joy of life in the allemandes.
However, I think her depth of expression in the Sarabande movements is rather light.

Offline Clever Hans

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 229
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #167 on: February 23, 2012, 02:00:49 PM »
I do also.  It's a gorgeous set of performances and I especially love her exuberance in the fast movements and joy of life in the allemandes.
However, I think her depth of expression in the Sarabande movements is rather light.

Interesting assessment. I think I like it as much for the sound as for the performances.

Bulldog

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #168 on: February 23, 2012, 02:13:39 PM »
Interesting assessment. I think I like it as much for the sound as for the performances.

Understood.  For me, Rannou's sound possesses a little too much reverberation that reduces the detail of musical lines and their interaction.

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #169 on: February 23, 2012, 02:56:44 PM »


One criticism I can see is that sometimes she's sometimes just too full of feeling. But maybe that's curmudgeonly.  I don't think the the singing lyrical beauty she often finds degrades the music -- it stands being played like that.

Her initial playing of the aria is possibly the most lyrical reading I've heard on harpsichord or piano (or string trio and viol consort, for that matter). 

On the same order, I got her set of English Suites, French Suites, and Toccatas, and I'll be interested in hearing what they sound like.  And though I may sound a little negative, I certainly don't regret making the purchase.  Perhaps repeat hearings will make her style more familiar and less eccentric seeming.

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7525
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #170 on: February 23, 2012, 03:15:59 PM »
Understood.  For me, Rannou's sound possesses a little too much reverberation that reduces the detail of musical lines and their interaction.

Late French baroque harpsichords and copies of these have often got too much reverberation for Bach´s music, I think.
If Rannou had chosen a Ruckers, things might look (or sound - of course) different.
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #171 on: February 23, 2012, 08:37:49 PM »
Late French baroque harpsichords and copies of these have often got too much reverberation for Bach´s music, I think.
If Rannou had chosen a Ruckers, things might look (or sound - of course) different.

She actually uses a reproduction of a Ruckers.

clavecin Anthony Sidey
copie d'un instrument Ruckers-Hemsch (1636-1763), fait a Paris en 1988 par Anthony Sidey et Frederic Bal

is how the booklet describes it for both the boxset and the GVs.

ETA:  The harpsichord used by Schornsheim in her WTC recording is a Ruckers modified in the 18th century by unknown (but according to the liner notes probably French) hands.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 08:40:01 PM by Jeffrey Smith »

Offline Toccata&Fugue

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2233
  • Location: Davis, CA
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #172 on: February 23, 2012, 09:40:31 PM »
I recently bought Burkhart Schliessmann's version on piano. I like it very much, though I wish he had omitted a repeat or two in order to fit it onto one disc! Superb sound, too.


Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 12339
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #173 on: February 23, 2012, 10:03:39 PM »
Late French baroque harpsichords and copies of these have often got too much reverberation for Bach´s music, I think.
If Rannou had chosen a Ruckers, things might look (or sound - of course) different.

When people say that she sounds French (I think you said this somewhere), what do they mean? Is it to do with the instrument or the style of play?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7525
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #174 on: February 24, 2012, 09:28:09 AM »
When people say that she sounds French (I think you said this somewhere), what do they mean? Is it to do with the instrument or the style of play?

Both. The instrument as well as her style - especially her way of ornamentation.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 09:37:37 AM by (: premont :) »
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7525
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #175 on: February 24, 2012, 09:37:03 AM »
She actually uses a reproduction of a Ruckers.
clavecin Anthony Sidey
copie d'un instrument Ruckers-Hemsch (1636-1763), fait a Paris en 1988 par Anthony Sidey et Frederic Bal

is how the booklet describes it for both the boxset and the GVs.
I would not call this a genuine Ruckers judged from the sound. Too much Hemsch (and perhaps Sidey) and too little Ruckers. This is how it often goes, compare the so called J A Silbermann organ, St.-Pierre-le-Jeune, Strasbourg, which Walcha used for many of his stereo Bach recordings. Too much Alfred Kern and too little Silbermann.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith
ETA:  The harpsichord used by Schornsheim in her WTC recording is a Ruckers modified in the 18th century by unknown (but according to the liner notes probably French) hands.
But the modifier did not make a French instrument of it.
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1461
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bruckner, Bach, Handel, Beethoven
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #176 on: August 31, 2012, 03:37:13 PM »


Tureck's 1998 DG Goldberg recording. Wow, at first I was put off by the performance, but upon a new listen it's like I'm hearing something else entirely. This time around the performance SINGS.


 8)

Offline xochitl

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 237
  • Location: walla walla
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #177 on: August 31, 2012, 04:44:16 PM »


has anyone heard this?

it's a guitar transcription [obviously multitracked since a two-handed guitarist can't do the crazy contrapuntal stuff].  really fascinating recording.  kinda makes me imagine a harpsichord without the klang  ;D

Offline DavidA

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: UK
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #178 on: January 14, 2013, 10:18:20 AM »
Glenn Gould's first Goldberg was revolutionary in that it showed just how brilliant Bach could sound on the piano. I think I have two more of Gould's early performances (both live) plus his 1981 remake. I don't think you could do without the first and the last but the others are really good too.

The best recent performance to me is Perahia - astounding playing.

Joanna MacGregor is never less than interesting.

One interesting point. When Serkin made his debut with Busch playing Bach Brandenberg 5 on the piano, he was encored. He apparently was overwhelmed and couldn't think of what to play so he played the first thing that came into his head which was the complete Golbergs!

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 12339
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #179 on: May 24, 2013, 10:36:49 PM »


I've been listening again to this. When I listen I'm conscious of the way one voice slips alongside another. Nevertheless, the result is very stable, the voices always fit with each  other to produce a sort of reliable secure framework.

Schliessmann's Bach  is Hofstadter's Bach, Bach the mathemtically minded engineer. I can't think of a better presentation of this Bach-image in music than Schliessmann's Goldbergs.


As such I suppose it's quite a valuable performance, though I was disappointed. I'd remembered that Schliessmann exposed the contraupuntal fault lines, but I had forgotten the way he avoids intense emotions. I was kind of hoping that the result would be less well balanced.  I was hoping for a greater feeling of danger, more of a feeling that the fault lines could slide apart. That, for me, would have been an even more valuable Bach-image.

But no.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 12:51:12 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen