Author Topic: Bach's Bungalow  (Read 113903 times)

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PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #580 on: April 17, 2019, 02:00:01 PM »
That doesn't explain the huge relative size of the Brian thread.

"Freak" composers like Brian defy explanation. You add up all the Brian recordings ever made and they probably don't add up to 1/2 the number of WTCs. But people are drawn to the Brian phenomenon - a largely self taught working class individual who wrote most of his work in his 80's and 90's.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #581 on: April 17, 2019, 10:22:31 PM »
Maybe, my theory is the "classical music" as we know is dominated by Austrian/German composers of the Romantic and post-Romantic era. Look at how many pages in the Bruckner and Mahler threads.

I am too lazy to count but have you added up all the Bach threads in the forum? This here is only the "general" one but there are large ones for organ, keyboard, "instrumental" works and even more.

The claim the Bach is not also dominating "classical music as we know it" seems rather outlandish to me. Bruckner and Mahler are not niches anymore, but they are in my impression overrepresented in online discussions because the number of recordings "exploded" in the last 3 decades or so (whereas Bach has been huge since the 50s and 60s) and they are also something of "orchestral spectacular" and maybe therefore overrepresented among technology and online-savy young to middle aged men.

Also, unlike Brian (I don't think I have ever heard a piece by him) or even Vaughan Williams (who has one huge thread, but only one) Bach is often "taken for granted", so fewer people feel the need to evangelize.  ;)
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #582 on: April 20, 2019, 04:44:06 AM »

This is my favorite recording of these pieces. I'm listening to this and thinking the baroque violin sounds infinitely better than recordings with modern violin.

I've heard a couple of sonatas from this set now. I want to say something that I'm feeling, maybe mistakenly -- they're not responding to each other, they don't give the impression of listening to each other and making music together. It's like they just played their parts separately and then the tapes were overlaid (I'm sure that's not what happened but . . . )

I also suspect that the sonatas aren't as differentiated as much as I like, I mean in terms of feeling. There's more and more known about the sort of feeling associated with the keys of these sonatas which give a strong clue as to how they can be expressed, I'm not convinced they've really thought about this.

Unfortunately I think that both these aspects are really essential to getting the best from the music.

I'll persist with the set but I wanted to post this in case someone felt strongly that I was on the wrong or right track.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 04:47:06 AM by Mandryka »
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #583 on: April 20, 2019, 08:26:12 AM »
But having said that the duo movements of 1019 are  rather good!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 08:28:29 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #584 on: April 22, 2019, 12:51:39 AM »
I've heard a couple of sonatas from this set now. I want to say something that I'm feeling, maybe mistakenly -- they're not responding to each other, they don't give the impression of listening to each other and making music together. It's like they just played their parts separately and then the tapes were overlaid (I'm sure that's not what happened but . . . )

I also suspect that the sonatas aren't as differentiated as much as I like, I mean in terms of feeling. There's more and more known about the sort of feeling associated with the keys of these sonatas which give a strong clue as to how they can be expressed, I'm not convinced they've really thought about this.

Unfortunately I think that both these aspects are really essential to getting the best from the music.

I'll persist with the set but I wanted to post this in case someone felt strongly that I was on the wrong or right track.
I guess I like the intimacy of this set. I can't say I love/understand violin music generally however I like Malgoire's touch. But I don't know how to describe exactly what it is that I like about the way Malgoire plays. What do you suggest to compare it to? I have a few sets but maybe I should try something else. I realize tonight that I don't like Dantone/Mullova which seems stuffy to me. But I remember Don Satz recommending Blumenstock/Butt and I can hear why for that one at least. I think they have that interaction you mention. I was also trying to compare Podger-Pinnock but I don't know what I think.
ETA: I really wanted to try a couple of these tonight. I first listened to a bit of Faust/Bezuidenhout but couldn't get past the sound of this recording. It seems muddy to me and I think they may just lack serendipity for this try. Giuliano Carmignola is rewarding I think. But it's maybe a virtuoso type thing which has its downside. I wonder who else has the rustic beauty of Malgoire but perhaps is a little more polished as a duo? 
Here's a candidate:

 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 01:47:06 AM by milk »

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #585 on: April 22, 2019, 01:54:38 AM »
I’ll tell you what, there’s one that I really like, every time I go back to it I find myself liking it more and more, it’s Guido de Neve and Frank Agsteribbe.



But violin is, I think, a very personal thing, one man’s meat is another man’s poison.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 01:56:14 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #586 on: April 22, 2019, 01:58:23 AM »
I’ll tell you what, there’s one that I really like, every time I go back to it I find myself liking it more and more, it’s Guido de Neve and Frank Agsteribbe.



But violin is, I think, a very personal thing, one man’s meat is another man’s poison.
Why did I know it would be something hard to find!  ;D

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #587 on: April 22, 2019, 02:16:34 AM »
Why did I know it would be something hard to find!  ;D

Really? It only came out last year or maybe the year before! Surely it can’t be deleted already?
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #588 on: April 22, 2019, 02:49:24 AM »
Really? It only came out last year or maybe the year before! Surely it can’t be deleted already?
I will search more! Another ETA: I see the magic in this from what's posted on youtube. Unfortunately, not available on any streaming services or iTunes. It's not even physically on Amazon.com.
Anyway, almost all the other sets I'm sampling go for big and grand. Or maybe it's reverberant and lyrical. I'm looking for the few sets out there, like Malgoire, that are going for intimacy and recorded dryly. Do most violinists prefer a very wet sound? 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 03:34:37 AM by milk »

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #589 on: April 22, 2019, 03:50:20 AM »
I will search more! Another ETA: I see the magic in this from what's posted on youtube. Unfortunately, not available on any streaming services or iTunes. It's not even physically on Amazon.com.
Anyway, almost all the other sets I'm sampling go for big and grand. Or maybe it's reverberant and lyrical. I'm looking for the few sets out there, like Malgoire, that are going for intimacy and recorded dryly. Do most violinists prefer a very wet sound?


Here, you have to use the ASIN B06XPNWN1F or you have to use the rather appropriate CD title "Music Of Flesh & Blood"

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Flesh-Blood-J-BACH/dp/B06XPNWN1F

Or download it in good mp3 from here

https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bt56wv525cgzxehl66o34qzbjeu&tid=song-Tu45dndzco6a5fixckbmjwogk5e

The idea of the interpretation is that the key signatures reveal the intended affects of the music; and for me this was a bit of a revelation, because it brought a new dimension of variety.





« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 03:54:12 AM by Mandryka »
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #590 on: April 22, 2019, 08:20:49 AM »
I will search more! Another ETA: I see the magic in this from what's posted on youtube. Unfortunately, not available on any streaming services or iTunes. It's not even physically on Amazon.com.
Anyway, almost all the other sets I'm sampling go for big and grand. Or maybe it's reverberant and lyrical. I'm looking for the few sets out there, like Malgoire, that are going for intimacy and recorded dryly. Do most violinists prefer a very wet sound?

Have you heard van Dael and Van Asperen?
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #591 on: April 23, 2019, 12:38:40 AM »
Have you heard van Dael and Van Asperen?
I listened a little but not enough. Honestly, your recommendation jumped out as special.
 

Here, you have to use the ASIN B06XPNWN1F or you have to use the rather appropriate CD title "Music Of Flesh & Blood"

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Flesh-Blood-J-BACH/dp/B06XPNWN1F

Or download it in good mp3 from here

https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bt56wv525cgzxehl66o34qzbjeu&tid=song-Tu45dndzco6a5fixckbmjwogk5e

The idea of the interpretation is that the key signatures reveal the intended affects of the music; and for me this was a bit of a revelation, because it brought a new dimension of variety.
I'm downloading this now. With this type of repertoire, I might be too influenced by the way they choose to record and mix it. I wonder if anyone else feels like they're prejudiced by the decisions in the studio. So, with the Asperen set, I need to get over something. But the one you recommended, performers I really don't know, I like something about the way it sounds first. Thanks for pointing me to where to download.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #592 on: April 23, 2019, 01:34:39 AM »
I listened a little but not enough. Honestly, your recommendation jumped out as special.
 I'm downloading this now. With this type of repertoire, I might be too influenced by the way they choose to record and mix it. I wonder if anyone else feels like they're prejudiced by the decisions in the studio. So, with the Asperen set, I need to get over something. But the one you recommended, performers I really don't know, I like something about the way it sounds first. Thanks for pointing me to where to download.

I listened to Dael/Asperen again last night, on reflection it's not what you're after. I also listened to some Neve/Agstreribbe and I think it may well be right for you. The record mixing is much like where you sit in a concert isn't it?  If you look back over discussions about these sonatas there's been a lot of concern about balance, in particular the violin not drowning out the keyboard. And yes, that's a thing to think about. But there are many other things too: interaction especially, and expression of course.

In a way Neve/Agsteribbe is like an introverted thoughtful version of Häkkinen/Höbarth -- I couldn't stand the latter, and it gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about it -- it's like having a fat sweaty Italian opera singer emote forcefully in your living room.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 01:54:33 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #593 on: April 23, 2019, 03:20:56 AM »
I listened to Dael/Asperen again last night, on reflection it's not what you're after. I also listened to some Neve/Agstreribbe and I think it may well be right for you. The record mixing is much like where you sit in a concert isn't it?  If you look back over discussions about these sonatas there's been a lot of concern about balance, in particular the violin not drowning out the keyboard. And yes, that's a thing to think about. But there are many other things too: interaction especially, and expression of course.

In a way Neve/Agsteribbe is like an introverted thoughtful version of Häkkinen/Höbarth -- I couldn't stand the latter, and it gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about it -- it's like having a fat sweaty Italian opera singer emote forcefully in your living room.
I still haven't heard anything that sounds quite like the Malgoire. It's probably because most people don't find it pleasing: it's very close and dry (and maybe limp sounding to some?). I get too many recommendations and I can't hear it anymore. I bought Neve/Agsteribbe so I'll spend a little time focused on this one. With most music these days, I listen in my living room for a while but then when I got out and put it on headphones, it's an entirely different experience in a good way. I'm lookin forward to listening to Neve on headphones.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #594 on: April 23, 2019, 03:36:57 AM »
I get too many recommendations and I can't hear it anymore.

What I've found is that as you get to know the music better,  the familiarity gives you distance and you can see more rapidly what they're doing. And the pleasure becomes not only the sensual one of being caught up in the flow of sound -- that sensuality becomes increasingly tempered by the intellectual pleasure of trying to make sense of the whats and the whys of their style.  I can't do it with many things.
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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #595 on: April 25, 2019, 10:18:49 AM »

This, published in today's US Catholic Herald, is about Notre Dame and the last recording made of the organ (which survived, Hallelujah), which was of BACH's works:


In praise of Notre-Dame’s 8,000-pipe organ

https://catholicherald.co.uk/magazine/in-praise-of-notre-dames-8000-pipe-organ/


Also: This video (organ porn) of the making-of "Bach to the Future":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mGNNg7tH7t" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mGNNg7tH7t</a>

Offline milk

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #596 on: April 28, 2019, 03:19:01 AM »
Re: Bach's trio sonatas BWV 525-530
What are some favorite transcriptions of any kind? What say ye?

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #597 on: April 28, 2019, 05:24:19 AM »
How about this one -- no wind instruments, English gentlemanly performances, rather lyrical, fluid.




or if you want a splash of colour then maybe this




or maybe this


« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 05:26:52 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #598 on: April 28, 2019, 05:46:24 AM »
My favorite is Power Biggs on pedal harpsichord (CBS/Sony) which I used to prefer to the organ recordings, now I also like the organ but I still love Power Biggs especially in the faster movements.
I have most the six also in chamber arrangements but as fillers scattered over several discs and not from one ensemble and such arrangements are not my preference.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach's Bungalow
« Reply #599 on: April 28, 2019, 06:03:13 AM »


This arrangement is rather inconsistent with the viola da gamba part (played by Richard Boothby, incidentally the arranger too) zigzagging between the continuo part and the middle voice. Give me London Baroque or The Brook Street Band anytime.



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