Author Topic: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)  (Read 64294 times)

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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #460 on: April 23, 2017, 07:27:09 PM »
Lol.  It is not at all random, it is improvised by a guy who -- clearly enough -- comes from a jazz background, and his ear, motor habit, and rhythmic habits and impulses naturally come to the fore, even in Messiaen / sets theory mode :-)  NB, too, how he was much more interested in the Chord aspect vs. what can arise from the mode in various horizontal lines.  Ergo, from this player, you get what you get.

every now and then you'll hear THE boogie woogie riff pop up once in the course of a Serial piece, lol

btw- by random, I meant the Monk, because I thought some jazznazi might correct me on Giant Steps being... Coltrane?  but, it DID sound like Monk+Rihm (and, I've heard Rihm use the boogie riff in his Klavierstucke 7, I think)
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Offline Rons_talking

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #461 on: April 27, 2017, 02:36:44 AM »
Interesting bit of theory .. Messiaen's 3rd mode, the all-interval tetrachord, and Giant Steps

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sQGWAnYd7Iw" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sQGWAnYd7Iw</a>


While soloing with PC sets like the 0146 might be interesting over bluesy tunes (Blue Monk) or modal tunes (Footprints, Impressions), where the harmonic background is understood by all, the use of this on Giant Steps is meaningless. The trick is to play with and around the changes (the harmonic rhythm on GS is too fast for many improvisers to keep up) as Coltrane does so brilliantly. If one can't hear the implied progression in the soloists' notes--though not limited to it--the player sounds like he can't hear the changes. If I hear 0246 sets on Giant Steps I'll assume the player doesn't have it.

Offline opaquer

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #462 on: August 24, 2017, 03:00:39 AM »
Messiaen is my papa  :D

Offline opaquer

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #463 on: August 24, 2017, 03:12:16 AM »
I've always been a big worshiper of his big orchestral works (and Catalog of Birds/organ works) but damn his smaller assorted chamber works are really fun to slice through. Lots of awesome lesser-known stuff. I've heard it all before, just not for a while. It's good to be back to Messiaen again  8)

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #464 on: August 24, 2017, 06:22:37 AM »
I've always been a big worshiper of his big orchestral works (and Catalog of Birds/organ works) but damn his smaller assorted chamber works are really fun to slice through. Lots of awesome lesser-known stuff. I've heard it all before, just not for a while. It's good to be back to Messiaen again  8)

BUT- did you hear the Foo Fighters with Rick Astley singing?????? that's what's important!!! ;) :D ;D :laugh:
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Offline opaquer

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #465 on: August 27, 2017, 02:15:15 AM »
Oh yeah, Messiaen has that special thing that even by his very very first published piece "Le Banquet Céleste", he sounds like nobody else but himself. There is really nobody to compare him to, he has that uniqueness.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #467 on: November 05, 2017, 09:04:35 PM »
I always find myself back at Messiaen, whether it's from biography related stuff or from composing myself. Such a profound and exciting composer, the harmony alone is worth the price of admission  :D

Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #468 on: November 19, 2017, 07:30:51 PM »
Roll over Grisey, it's Messiaen season!


"and the birds sang their pretty song, and there is always music in the air"


BANG BANG Canyons BANG BANG Turangalila SCREAM!!!!!! Now smile of joy.

Messiaen season: Nov-?2017-201#?

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #469 on: November 19, 2017, 07:34:29 PM »
I wonder if they prescribe Ritalin to adults nowadays? I know someone who needs it. ;) ;D
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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #470 on: November 19, 2017, 07:49:08 PM »
I wonder if they prescribe Ritalin to adults nowadays? I know someone who needs it. ;) ;D

If that was too cryptic for you weelllllllll:

I got the full scores for both of those works right now and I'm on top of the fucking moon, so excited!  ;D  8)

Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #471 on: November 19, 2017, 07:50:45 PM »
And my new course is off to a grreeeeaaatt start  :-*

Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #472 on: November 19, 2017, 08:00:58 PM »
I am not shitting you, there is a sparrow in the library (that obviously got through one of the main entrances)

I can't help but feel amused by that when I'm reading these Messiaen scores  :laugh:

Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #473 on: November 20, 2017, 01:02:59 AM »
Leaving out the work as a whole, both "Omao, leiothrix, elepaio, shama" and "Zion Park et la cité céleste" from Des Canyons really gets to me, it's so inspiring. Some of those big thick melodic chord sections bring on emotions close to tears, it's connected to that spiritually (not religious) invigorating sense of awe and beauty.   :'(

I really enjoy the hell out of "Appel interstellaire" (the big horn solo) and "Bryce Canyon et les rochers rouge-orange", both of which continue a sense of excitement and exotic, spacey colors.  8)

Just a fucking amazing work all round, but they are my favorite four sections I think   :)

Offline lescamil

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #474 on: November 20, 2017, 09:57:06 AM »
Leaving out the work as a whole, both "Omao, leiothrix, elepaio, shama" and "Zion Park et la cité céleste" from Des Canyons really gets to me, it's so inspiring. Some of those big thick melodic chord sections bring on emotions close to tears, it's connected to that spiritually (not religious) invigorating sense of awe and beauty.   :'(

I really enjoy the hell out of "Appel interstellaire" (the big horn solo) and "Bryce Canyon et les rochers rouge-orange", both of which continue a sense of excitement and exotic, spacey colors.  8)

Just a fucking amazing work all round, but they are my favorite four sections I think   :)

I saw this piece live during the Messiaen year 2008 and it was one of the best concerts I've ever been to. I wanted to cry during the slow 8th movement...
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Online Le Moderniste

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Re: Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)
« Reply #475 on: November 20, 2017, 01:55:03 PM »
I saw this piece live during the Messiaen year 2008 and it was one of the best concerts I've ever been to. I wanted to cry during the slow 8th movement...

I love how he jumps between really majestic/ethereal/grand moods and more nuanced/solemn emotional (in a reserved, personal way) moods in his work. To which he has pretty much done right off the bat!

Messiaen also clearly articulates how intensity and calmness (or fast and slow, loud and quiet etc) both compliment each other, even at the same time (like Ives done in many ensemble/orchestral works)


So moving back to that 8th movement, the harmonies in that movement are so beautiful (though very idiosyncratic of Messiaen) and the birdsong too adds so much emotional weight in this movement.
But the very last movement of Canyons is probably the one that gets to me the most.


Turangalila, Quartet and Eclairs (off the top of my head) have slow movements that hit me hard too (disregarding the awesome faster/busier movements), the last movement of Eclairs for instance:

 :'( :'( :'( :'(

That pulls very strongly on my heart, more than any other piece I've heard.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 01:56:52 PM by Le Moderniste »

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