Author Topic: The Lachenmann Lacuna  (Read 18322 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2012, 05:01:28 PM »
Personal favourites from Lachenmann's orchestral oeuvre:

Tanzsuite mit Deutschlandlied: the history of German music refracted through a brilliant if pitch-black sense of humour.
Harmonica: a tuba anti-concerto with a wonderful anti-cadenza at the middle.
Staub: Lachenmann's response to a concert companion for Beethoven's 9th; takes hints of that work and grinds them into the dust of the title.
Klangschatten: pianos and strings, never sounding remotely like they usually do: music made from the bits usually left behind, like Plato's shadows on the cave wall.
Schwankungen am Rand: another 70s Lachenmann piece; with remarkable use of thunder sheets.


I didn't think everything orchestral was available on CD: never heard of a recording of Schreiben, nor the very early pieces. Maybe I'm behind the times--I don't even have Concertini yet. :P

Unfortunately I haven't heard many of his orchestral works (hope to fix in 2012!) but I can recommend the following:

Salut für Caudwell (for two guitars)
Mouvement (for chamber orchestra)
Pression (for cello)
Guero (for piano)
Toccatina (for violin)

If you're operatically inclined, there are actually two recordings of Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern (The Little Match Girl), with the ensemble evoking chilly, icy sounds.

--Bruce

Thanks guys.

I do also have the 'Salut' for two guitars, a very...mm...interesting piece.

I'm going to take it that the cd with the 'Rand' piece is the one everyone's pointing me to. I'll check your recommends against the Amazon.

And, yes, I find the Opera in the same 'place' that I find Holliger's 'Scardinelli Cycle', a piece I love for its ennui sounding music,... I picture the Lachenmann sounding similar,... very quite and chilly,... that's right up my alley. brrrrrr

btw- I'm sure I was off saying 'everything' was recorded,,,
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline Joaquimhock

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • My artistic website
  • Location: Belgium
  • Currently Listening to:
    Kurtag - Ropartz - Enescu - Tournemire
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2012, 11:32:30 PM »
Wikipedia mentions a  "Concerto for 8 Horns and Orchestra (2010–11), for Musica Viva Munich" as his most recent work. Has anybody heard about it? Has it already been  premiered ?
"Dans la vie il faut regarder par la fenêtre"

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2012, 06:54:51 AM »
Sounds intriguing; I can easily imagine how that might work with Lachenmann's style.

It's hard to tell what to think, though; it's not mentioned on Lachenmann's publisher's page, and Musica viva Munich appears to be one of those retro organizations who still don't have a web site.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2012, 08:11:04 AM »
Schwankungen am Rand
Lachenmann’s supple philosophical distinction between music and noise can take some acclimatization, but his 1975 orchestral piece Schwankungen am Rand (Fluctuations at the Boundaries) articulates the arguments with clarity, and is the perfect primer. String and brass players must bend their technique to Lachenmann’s characteristically exacting specifications – blowing, hitting and scraping their instruments to harvest mint-fresh timbres. In the unfolding musical argument another layer is provided by thunder sheets – large sheets of metal, modified by Lachenmann himself for this piece – which percussionists play with conventional percussion mallets and with nails, hammers and their fingers. As the jagged sounds overlap and blend, Lachenmann explains that his thunder sheets “turn into radically deformed monster violins with super-pizzicato-fluido sounds” – while the actual orchestral violins, by extension, are transformed into resonating sound objects resolutely turned away from their usual orchestral function. Inside this viciously expressive music is another kind of beauty.


Ensemble Modern Orchestra; Eotvos (ECM New Series; with Mouvement (-vor der Erstarrung) & … zwei Gefuhle … Musik mit Leonardo) This landmark 2002 release put Schwankungen am Rand on the map as a forgotten masterpiece of modernist music. Hungarian conductor Peter Eotvos – himself a composer – shepherds those crack musicians of the Frankfurt-based Ensemble Modern through Lachenmann’s thirty-minute structure without compromising his elemental sound-world

Gran Torso
It’s no coincidence that the title of Lachenmann’s first string quartet, Gran Torso, completed in 1972 and revised six years later, has echoes of Beethoven’s Grosse Fuge. Beethoven’s work is considered the most technically demanding quartet writing of the nineteenth century and Lachenmann, similarly, aims to re-radicalize the language of the string quartet. Beginning with hushed sonorities perched at the edge of audibility, he generates structural arcs that his extended instrumental techniques simultaneously shatter – long sustained passages are ripped apart by abrupt scrapings, while manic pizzicatos send melodic cells scattering to the outer limits of our ability to hear them. Beethoven’s Grosse Fuge trashed the formality of the fugue by twisting its conventions against itself. Lachenmann applies a comparable mindset to every parameter of the string quartet. And like Beethoven, Gran Torso defined a wholly fresh approach to the string quartet that generations of younger composers have been keen to follow up on.


Arditti Quartet (Kairos; with String Quartet Nos. 2 & 3) Not easy music to nail, but no group performs this repertoire better than the Arditti Quartet. If the sounds Lachenmann hears in his inner ear move off the radar of conventional instrumental timbre, the Ardittis unerringly zone into his intentions, realizing his ideas faithfully.

(Rough Guide to Classical Music, 5th Edition)

I think that 'Rand' cd will be my introduction then. Thanks. (unless you can think of a better introduction)
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11793
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2012, 07:16:45 AM »
On BBC Radio 3 tomorrow at 22:30 (UK time) from Aldeburgh, Ensemble Modern in music of Helmut Lachenmann:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k9s9l

Lachenmann: Zwei Gefuhle
Lachenmann: Accanto
Ensemble Modern
Franck Ollu (conductor)

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2012, 09:59:35 AM »
Does anyone have both the Arditti/Kairos and the Calder/Neos cds of the SQs? Can you save me from getting them both?,... please!! :-*
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2012, 10:02:00 AM »
On BBC Radio 3 tomorrow at 22:30 (UK time) from Aldeburgh, Ensemble Modern in music of Helmut Lachenmann:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k9s9l

Lachenmann: Zwei Gefuhle
Lachenmann: Accanto
Ensemble Modern
Franck Ollu (conductor)

--Bruce

Just to be fair, I clicked on the Thread without knowing it was up (I was searching,... you know, we have to say these things! ;D). There must be Lachenmann in the air?
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline katewishing

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2012, 03:23:49 PM »

ibanezmonster

  • Guest
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2012, 08:32:31 AM »
Das Mädchen in full:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma-ROiDJN5M
Wonderful. As soon as I get 2 hours, I'll have to listen to this. Just skimming through this, it looks promising!

ibanezmonster

  • Guest
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2013, 06:57:55 AM »
I hate how some of these older composers have no online presence, so it's really hard to track what they're working on.

Is the list of works on Lachenmann's wiki page THE complete list? I've saved quite a few works of his from youtube, but it's not enough for me.  :P Stuff like the Concerto for 8 Horns or Staub look interesting, but I'm wondering if they've even been performed.  :-\

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2013, 11:27:56 AM »
Staub (which apparently was intended to be played before Beethoven's Ninth) has been recorded on this interesting disc:

http://www.amazon.com/Sinfonische-Musik-1980-1990/dp/B00004ZC30/

... have asin links gone the way of the dodo while I wasn't noticing?

Recommended, though I used to have an aircheck that I felt was a better performance (not sure what happened to it).

The Concerto for 8 Horns and Orchestra isn't mentioned at his publisher's, so I'm not sure what its provenance is.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 11:32:53 AM by edward »
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Joaquimhock

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • My artistic website
  • Location: Belgium
  • Currently Listening to:
    Kurtag - Ropartz - Enescu - Tournemire
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2013, 12:05:49 PM »
I hate how some of these older composers have no online presence, so it's really hard to track what they're working on.

Is the list of works on Lachenmann's wiki page THE complete list? I've saved quite a few works of his from youtube, but it's not enough for me.  :P Stuff like the Concerto for 8 Horns or Staub look interesting, but I'm wondering if they've even been performed.  :-\

from: http://www.br.de/radio/br-klassik/orchester-chor/musica-viva/kalender-symphonieorchester-musica-viva-eoetvoes-abo-fuenf102.html

Die für diesen Termin ursprünglich geplante Uraufführung der "Musik für acht Hörner" von Helmut Lachenmann, ein Kompositionsauftrag der musica viva des Bayerischen Rundfunks, wurde auf Samstag, 8. Februar 2014 verschoben. Damit verschiebt sich auch die Aufführung der Beethoven-Bearbeitung von Manuel Hidalgo  "Große Fuge B-Dur op. 133 [1825]" auf den gleichen Termin.

which basicaly means that the premiere of the work for 8 horns has been cancelled. It will be perfoemd on the 8th of february...2014...


"Dans la vie il faut regarder par la fenêtre"

ibanezmonster

  • Guest
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2013, 02:32:50 PM »
from: http://www.br.de/radio/br-klassik/orchester-chor/musica-viva/kalender-symphonieorchester-musica-viva-eoetvoes-abo-fuenf102.html

Die für diesen Termin ursprünglich geplante Uraufführung der "Musik für acht Hörner" von Helmut Lachenmann, ein Kompositionsauftrag der musica viva des Bayerischen Rundfunks, wurde auf Samstag, 8. Februar 2014 verschoben. Damit verschiebt sich auch die Aufführung der Beethoven-Bearbeitung von Manuel Hidalgo  "Große Fuge B-Dur op. 133 [1825]" auf den gleichen Termin.

which basicaly means that the premiere of the work for 8 horns has been cancelled. It will be perfoemd on the 8th of february...2014...
Thanks for the info.



Staub (which apparently was intended to be played before Beethoven's Ninth) has been recorded on this interesting disc:

http://www.amazon.com/Sinfonische-Musik-1980-1990/dp/B00004ZC30/

... have asin links gone the way of the dodo while I wasn't noticing?

Recommended, though I used to have an aircheck that I felt was a better performance (not sure what happened to it).

The Concerto for 8 Horns and Orchestra isn't mentioned at his publisher's, so I'm not sure what its provenance is.
1 new from $130.93

 :-\

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3684
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 04:27:07 AM »
Meanwhile, Lachenmann appears for the first time in the BBC Proms this season, with the Ardittis as soloists in Tanzsuite mit Deutschlandlied--one of those occasions where I greatly wish I still lived in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2013/july-15/14558
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 06:06:08 AM »
Does anyone have both the Arditti/Kairos and the Calder/Neos cds of the SQs? Can you save me from getting them both?,... please!! :-*

Apparently Grant Chu Covell can't really distinguish between the two.
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 10:41:37 AM »
wow, talk about quiet at gmg today.


hear the crickets?



(ha, that's a Lachenmann joke, haha)
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline snyprrr

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11034
  • SQs, PQs, PQTs, PTs, VSs, Berlioz-Xenakis/Aperghis
  • Currently Listening to:
    Things that are crisp and spritely vs. things that are thick and creamy
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2014, 08:29:36 AM »
Anyone check these out yet .. ?




ah, beat me to it

Let me ask you: have you too been rummaging the idea of acquiring all three String Quartet Cycles? :o ??? :o gasp  ??? :o leopold  ??? :o gasp Seriously, Lachenmann is ONE Composer where I find it quite humorous that we we now have three Cycles- I mean, come ON, once you have mastered Lachenmann's soundworld, aren't you pretty much going to HAVE to sound like what he wants, ergo, how can there be much variation? Grant Chu Covell said he couldn't detect much difference between the Arditti or Stadler... I know those JACK Xenakis/Mode recordings have quite a super slick yummy sheen to them which might work really well in Lachenmann depending on how they're mic'd- but how can one live with oneself if one doesn't get all three just because? hmm? I mean, how many versions of 'Pression' do we have- ok, I'm not complaining...

... gets more tea...

SOMEONE PLEASE!!

GET ALL THREE SQ CYCLES (kAIROS, NEOS, MODE) AND REPORT BACK ASAP!! (This sounds like a job for... ) (I wooould do it but...


Here, I'd love to tell you my dilemma here. We have all these great Lachenmann Cycles, then we have a Sciarrino Cycle (one CD) on Kairos too, and then, because I believe him to be part of this group, we have the Holliger SQ 2 on ECM to contend with (on an expensive 2CD set). You could even add the Rihm Cycle to that if you wanted (but I'd like a little more variety- what? just one Cycle for Rihm?? shocked).

So, in my latest CDCDCD craze, I purposely left off an SQs because that would have sent me into orbit. But that just means that the SQ front is getting bigger, and I guess we'll have to tackle that at some point, BUT HERE IS THE POINT- how can you get Lachenmann with Sciarrino, and how can you get them with Holliger?,... and, if you get them all, why not just add Rihm into the mix for colour?

So, I held off on the SQs!

I got bit in the ass with my last "Brand New Composer" foray into the SQs (Rueda and Posadas, both on Kairos (both interesting, but... I have not gotten any new since)), so, I'm being really conservative, wanting only to add Masterpieces, of which I hear that Holliger  SQ 2 is one. Rihm's 11th, out on Wergo, sounds much like Mahler/Berg, a great foil to that Arditti 12.

I'm chubbin' :P...
Rat Poison is 99% Good Food, so Follow the Money

Haydn-Sikh

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1397
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2014, 10:06:45 AM »
Anyone check these out yet .. ?




I have the first one, which I got for the interviews and filmed performances of Pression and Guero, even though I already had the pieces in the various Montaigne releases.

I don't have the second one because I am happy with the Arditti recordings on Kairos. I might get it on impulse if I feel the need to buy something and there's nothing immediately obvious to satiate that thirst.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline petrarch

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1397
  • Luigi Nono (1924-1990)
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2014, 11:16:15 AM »
Shame MODE didn't release the SQs as a video performance too, like that did with JACK/Xenakis

They say the DVD will eventually be released.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Offline CRCulver

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 469
Re: The Lachenmann Lacuna
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2014, 12:12:35 AM »
Would someone who owns the old Montaigne recording with the Ardittis performing Reigen seliger Geister and Tanzsuite mit Deutschlandlied please tell me the recording dates of those two pieces, and what the exact lineup of the Arditti Quartet was at the time?