Author Topic: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread  (Read 90310 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #520 on: August 01, 2017, 08:26:02 PM »
Wikipedia says he wrote music for Calvinist, Lutheran and Catholic liturgies.

But I am skeptical that a man who spent over four decades as the musician of an important Calvinist church in Amsterdam was a secret Catholic. Catholics in the Netherlands were not quite as oppressed as those in England (like Bull and Byrd), and unlike their English brethren, would have had more opportunity to physically relocate to Catholic territory. And even if relocation was not an option, wouldn't he have at least found another way to make a living?

He wasn't a church organist, but a city organist.
If it were up to Calvinism, all the organs would have been destroyed during the so-called Beeldenstorm, the outburst of destruction of religious images that occurred in (a.o.) the Netherlands half-way the 16th century. Calvinists called the organ "des Satans fluytenkast" (the flute case of Satan). Thanks to city governments, the organs were saved. Sweelinck wasn't a servant of any church/religion, he was a servant for the city government as well as the city organist of Amsterdam.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 08:35:43 PM by Marc »
Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #521 on: August 01, 2017, 10:41:48 PM »
He wasn't a church organist, but a city organist.
If it were up to Calvinism, all the organs would have been destroyed during the so-called Beeldenstorm, the outburst of destruction of religious images that occurred in (a.o.) the Netherlands half-way the 16th century. Calvinists called the organ "des Satans fluytenkast" (the flute case of Satan). Thanks to city governments, the organs were saved. Sweelinck wasn't a servant of any church/religion, he was a servant for the city government as well as the city organist of Amsterdam.

There's a fun article here about the Calvinists' "War on Organs", illustrated with some colorful quotes.
https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=xbRMAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA112&ots=k5r9tS7A-z&dq=des%20Satans%20fluytenkast&pg=PA107#v=onepage&q=des%20Satans%20fluytenkast&f=false

Calvinists initially saw organs as too Popish to be used in church, some going as far as to see them as a form of idolatry. But when congregational singing was introduced, it was hard to make people learn the Psalter tunes. That's why city councils employed people like Sweelinck to play variations on the Psalms while service was not in session so people could learn the Psalter. (alongside with variations on secular songs just for entertainment - like Est ce Mars, which was a big hit in 1615)
Later, in 1640, Constantijn Huygens published an essay advocating the use of the organ to accompany the singing (as opposed to only playing it before and after the service). Suddenly you get large organs like the ones in the Leiden Pieterskerk (one of my favorite Dutch organs  ;D ), Amsterdam Nieuwekerk, or Alkmaar Laurenskerk that could meet these new demands.

Sietze de Vries playing Sweelinck's P.23 on my favorite little organ, the organ in Uttum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVpBUtXep4

Another fun Sweelinck fact is that in 1604, Sweelinck was sent to Antwerp on a business trip to buy the city a Ruckers harpsichord, probably his only sojourn outside Holland. Someone discovered the lid of this harpsichord, and now it's in the Rijksmuseum! https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/SK-A-4947
But I wonder if the soundboard may have made its way into a still extant large French harpsichord or something?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 10:58:10 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #522 on: September 22, 2017, 05:08:40 AM »


There's a new Pachebel hexachordum (I'm assuming a re-release, as the style of playing seems rather antiquated?) that's very nice on Spotify. Does anyone have more info on the performer or recording? What organ was used in it? Sounds like a Southern German organ correct for Pachelbel's period, but that's all I can deduce.

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9474
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #523 on: October 24, 2017, 04:49:12 AM »
Does anyone know if people used organs to accompany the ordinary of the mass in renaissance times or before? Has anyone heard a mass sung like this?

We have many performances which use brass instruments to accompany the mass ordinaries, presumably partly on the basis of regional practices. But the organ seems a priori a more likely instrument, especially given that there's evidence that it was used in alternatim in the place of sung propers.  Rebecca Stewart has written about this.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 04:55:02 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9474
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #524 on: December 16, 2017, 02:16:39 PM »


This contains a very fine performance of Anthoni van Noordt's Psalm 24 by Peter van der Kooy. I don't know what the organ is, it may even be digital. Can anyone find any details about the series? It comes out of Holland and features Dutch organists, it's from a Dutch producer called JQZ, here's their website, but I can't find any details on it.

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_winkel.php?genre=orgel

Anyway this van Noordt is one among the best I've heard of his music - having said that I can only remember hearing Doeselaar!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 02:25:58 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15079
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #525 on: December 24, 2017, 10:00:37 AM »
What's the word on this new issue?  :)



The first recording of the complete organ works by Valeri. 
Gaetano Valeri (1760-1822) was born in Padua, Italy, bred and raised in the “Keyboard School of the Veneto region”. A true “classical” composer he absorbed the style of Haydn and Mozart, while still under the influence of the Galant Style of Galuppi, Alberti and Turini. 
Valeri’s organ works contain indications of the use of certain stops, which were specific of the organs built in his time in the Veneto, by for instance the famous organ builder Callido. 
Valeri’s organ works form a happy mix of the Classical and Galant, strict forms containing beautiful cantabile melodies and lavish ornamentation. 
Italian organist Paolo Bottini chose two beautiful historic organs from Valeri’s time, the full specification of which are included in the booklet, which also contains scholarly written liner notes by the artist.

À chacun son goût.

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 15079
  • "One HIP dude"
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
  • Currently Listening to:
    Still nuts about harpsichord music and exploring Early Music.
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #526 on: December 27, 2017, 01:11:18 AM »
Eyeing this new issue:



Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #527 on: December 27, 2017, 11:54:44 PM »


A recording with Freddy Eichelberger at the organ of Saint-Savin-en-Lavedan, a finely built modern reconstruction of a long-gone 16th century organ in its original case -- which means a maximum dose of those flatulent little renaissance reeds! Interesting juxtapositions of dignified Rennaissance polyphonic pieces with rather more vulgar-sounding dances, both nicely executed by Eichelberger and his band.

I think the organ is one of the few modern reconstructions I've heard that actually have a "soul", as in that it has character like old organs do.

Interestingly, a panel on the side of the organ sports a rather graphic painting of a man nonchalantly jerking himself off. I wonder why it's there -- perhaps a male version of Sheela na gig, a cautionary image, or just a bit of 16th century French mischief?

Another performance, an improvisation by Sietze de Vries at the same organ, not shy of bells and whistles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIBHK7McF0
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 12:02:48 AM by bioluminescentsquid »

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9474
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #528 on: December 28, 2017, 01:14:42 AM »


A recording with Freddy Eichelberger at the organ of Saint-Savin-en-Lavedan, a finely built modern reconstruction of a long-gone 16th century organ in its original case -- which means a maximum dose of those flatulent little renaissance reeds! Interesting juxtapositions of dignified Rennaissance polyphonic pieces with rather more vulgar-sounding dances, both nicely executed by Eichelberger and his band.

I think the organ is one of the few modern reconstructions I've heard that actually have a "soul", as in that it has character like old organs do.

Interestingly, a panel on the side of the organ sports a rather graphic painting of a man nonchalantly jerking himself off. I wonder why it's there -- perhaps a male version of Sheela na gig, a cautionary image, or just a bit of 16th century French mischief?



Know it well and I like it, I'm sure I wrote something about it here. There's also this (not recommended)



In France I've seen those sort of pagan images in churches, i remember drunken scenes in Fréjus cathedral.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 01:26:53 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #529 on: December 28, 2017, 02:24:46 AM »
Know it well and I like it, I'm sure I wrote something about it here. There's also this (not recommended)



In France I've seen those sort of pagan images in churches, i remember drunken scenes in Fréjus cathedral.

I've seen that cover before but not the disc. Is it still available? (never mind; missed your un-recommendation)

I really dig those recordings that have ensembles playing with historical organs. Like this one, which I've listened to the samples of but haven't actually gotten. It's with the 1467/1637 transept organ of St. Jacobi, Lubeck. The sound of the Savin organ very much reminds me of the principals of this organ.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 02:38:33 AM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #530 on: December 28, 2017, 03:39:21 AM »


This contains a very fine performance of Anthoni van Noordt's Psalm 24 by Peter van der Kooy. I don't know what the organ is, it may even be digital. Can anyone find any details about the series? It comes out of Holland and features Dutch organists, it's from a Dutch producer called JQZ, here's their website, but I can't find any details on it.

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_winkel.php?genre=orgel

Anyway this van Noordt is one among the best I've heard of his music - having said that I can only remember hearing Doeselaar!

It could be a re-issue of this disc:



http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/13195588
http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/12591718

Btw: I doubt if organist Peter van der Kooy exists. It's probably a mix-up of 2 familiar names: bass Peter Kooij and organist Jos van der Kooy.

Organist (most likely): Theo Visser.
Organ: De Swart/Van Hagerbeer/Ahrend, Hooglandse Kerk, Leiden, NL.
Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #531 on: December 28, 2017, 03:45:38 AM »
It could be a re-issue of this disc:



http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/13195588
http://www.deezer.com/nl/album/12591718

Btw: I doubt if organist Peter van der Kooy exists. It's probably a mix-up of 2 familiar names: bass Peter Kooij and organist Jos van der Kooy.

Organist (most likely): Theo Visser.
Organ: De Swart/Van Hagerbeer/Ahrend, Hooglandse Kerk, Leiden, NL.

On Spotify they are identical. The part in question is indeed played by Jos van der Kooy.
I remember listening to this disc ages ago and liking it.

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #532 on: December 28, 2017, 03:58:45 AM »
On Spotify they are identical. The part in question is indeed played by Jos van der Kooy.
I remember listening to this disc ages ago and liking it.

No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)

Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link

Offline bioluminescentsquid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #533 on: December 28, 2017, 03:59:49 AM »
No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)



Very odd. I remember it not having Jos van der Kooy too, but the 2nd half of it was tagged with JvdK on Spotify. Error most likely.

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #534 on: December 28, 2017, 04:00:14 AM »
Very odd. I remember it not having Jos van der Kooy too, but the 2nd half of it was tagged with JvdK on Spotify. Error most likely.

I think so, too.
Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9474
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #535 on: December 28, 2017, 06:51:36 AM »
Very pleasant recital, very pleasant organ, very pleasant music. I mean the Leiden one)

I'm listening to it in London, looking out of the window of my study. It's very cold out, and the sky is clear, blue and sunny. There's a log fire going.  In front of my house is a huge Plane tree which has been occupied by a flock of green parrots, birds which are becoming increasingly common here. The scene: green birds, blue sky, the slight smell of burning wood, seems to fit the music nicely.

John Blow's Double Voluntary is unexpectedly interesting, as is the Tomkins Ground.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:28:42 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6727
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #536 on: December 28, 2017, 08:16:56 AM »
There's also this (not recommended)

I do not know it, but why do you write "not recommended"?
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6727
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #537 on: December 28, 2017, 08:17:58 AM »
No mentioning of Van der Kooy on the original issue by Tulip Records.

Tulip Records CD TUR 1850001

Sweelinck, Van Noordt, Froberger, Bovet, Byrd, Purcell, Bull, Blow, Tomkins, De Heredia, Canabiles, De Arauxo
Leiden–NL–Hooglandse Kerk
Theo Visser
(2008)



Is this recording available in practice? And where?
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #538 on: December 28, 2017, 09:10:54 AM »
I do not know it, but why do you write "not recommended"?

I think he doesn't like it. ;)

Is this recording available in practice? And where?

This is the jqz/tulip website:

http://www.jqz.nl/shop_cdinfo.php?id=9

And this is a Christian bookshop that sells cd's:

https://www.hertog.nl/artikel/TURE185001/z/

I do not know whether they sell abroad, though.
(Mandryka knows how difficult that can be.)

Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3494
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #539 on: December 28, 2017, 09:20:35 AM »
Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link