Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 664851 times)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11460 on: July 10, 2017, 02:37:42 PM »
Only tangetially related to Haydn, but this might be of interest to Haydnians (if not, I apolgize for the intrusion  :-[). Today I've revisited a recording I've owned for decades, and hadn't listened to in a long time:



In 1909, to celebrate the centennial of Haydn's death, the French music periodical S.I.M. commissioned 6 leading French composers of the day to produce short piano hommages to the Austrian composer, using a theme based on his name (which, by repeating the sequence A-H [for B]-C-D-E-F-G along the alphabet, turns out to be B-A-D-D-G). The composers who contributed were Debussy, Dukas, Hahn, d'Indy, Ravel and Widor. The resulting Hommage à Joseph Haydn is a quite charming set. Probably the best known piece is Ravel's (a small gem IMHO), and the only who actually  tries to emulate Haydn is Reynaldo Hahn, with a rather quaint pastiche. Widor's fugue sounds more bachian than anything else (and very academic, at that), but Dukas's Prélude élégiaque is exactly that, very elegiac (disarmingly so).

Regards,

Cool, thanks!  I have heard the Ravel, but not the others. You're right, it IS a little gem!  Looks interesting, thanks for the recommendation. :)

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Offline Old Listener

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11461 on: July 10, 2017, 10:13:02 PM »
The first 3...
The second 3.

I included the known publication history in these essays, they were published in Paris, but not officially offered to a London publisher, as far as I can see. Which doesn't mean they didn't get published anyway, only that Haydn didn't get paid for it.

I have never speculated on what that 'old symphony' may have been so I can't offer a reasonable guess, or at least, not one more reasonable than Landon's. I'm sure he had some reason for choosing that one, although it wouldn't be as simple as saying "it was in G major", since I never have seen that phrase used in relation to a symphony in London, it would make things too simple.  :)

Thanks for the links to your articles.  I read them again and played the Fischer recordings of 76 and 77.  76-81 are all favorites of mine.

Your comments on these symphonies made me think about Haydn's sustaining his creativity over his long career.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11462 on: July 11, 2017, 04:43:03 AM »
Thanks for the links to your articles.  I read them again and played the Fischer recordings of 76 and 77.  76-81 are all favorites of mine.

Your comments on these symphonies made me think about Haydn's sustaining his creativity over his long career.

Thanks for reading them. I really like those works, and so I tried to make their stories interesting, but it was challenging because not only are they not played often, they are also not written about very much either! That period in Haydn's life was one of his most creative, as he was switching his focus from pleasing the Prince to pleasing the world at large. I would say he was successful with that... :D

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11463 on: July 11, 2017, 05:15:51 AM »
So do I correctly understand that there is no indication that Haydn played any of 76-81 in London and we simply have no real clue which one the unknown symphony some take to have been #54 was?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11464 on: July 11, 2017, 08:12:46 AM »
So do I correctly understand that there is no indication that Haydn played any of 76-81 in London and we simply have no real clue which one the unknown symphony some take to have been #54 was?

Yes. As for 54, Landon says "I believe it was...", which is hedging his bets, I'm sure. He is pretty damn good at tracking things down, but sometimes there just isn't enough evidence to be sure. IIRC, this one came from a newspaper review, which only said that "the band played an old symphony of Haydn...". Landon may be making a circular argument. He knows they played an old symphony, he knows that #54 was updated in a style that would have made it playable in London, and that Haydn did update some works in just that way, and so he inserts #54 in that spot. It isn't the sort of scholarship he normally employed, but he does make sure to say "could have been...". 

I have found it quite frustrating to try and sort some of this stuff out. There really doesn't exist enough information to be sure of a lot of it. That is one of the reasons it takes me so long to get out a new essay these days; I spend a lot of time trying to verify things. :-\

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11465 on: July 11, 2017, 08:13:51 AM »
Yes. As for 54, Landon says "I believe it was...", which is hedging his bets, I'm sure. He is pretty damn good at tracking things down, but sometimes there just isn't enough evidence to be sure. IIRC, this one came from a newspaper review, which only said that "the band played an old symphony of Haydn...". Landon may be making a circular argument. He knows they played an old symphony, he knows that #54 was updated in a style that would have made it playable in London, and that Haydn did update some works in just that way, and so he inserts #54 in that spot. It isn't the sort of scholarship he normally employed, but he does make sure to say "could have been...". 

I have found it quite frustrating to try and sort some of this stuff out. There really doesn't exist enough information to be sure of a lot of it. That is one of the reasons it takes me so long to get out a new essay these days; I spend a lot of time trying to verify things. :-\

8)

Aye, and we appreciate your researches.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11466 on: July 11, 2017, 08:14:41 AM »
Aye, and we appreciate your researches.

Thank you, kind sir. :)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11467 on: July 11, 2017, 09:06:57 AM »
Aye, and we appreciate your researches.

+ 1
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. - Romans 1:22, KJV

Online Mandryka

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11468 on: July 19, 2017, 09:02:59 PM »
Anyone else interested in the new Chiaroscuro Quartet op 20?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 10:10:36 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11469 on: July 23, 2017, 02:45:52 PM »
1796 was a huge year for Haydn. One thing he discovered was among the disadvantages of living long and spending time away: everyone he knew was pretty much dead or gone, except his beloved Missus. I'm just starting out on the year, trying to get a grip, so to say. Here's what I'v learned so far.

Pretty much starting over...

Thanks,
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11470 on: August 03, 2017, 04:48:28 AM »
If we Haydnistas listen to only one of the 17 Weinberg string quartets, that quartet is the Eighth (1959) one of whose recurring motives is (I cannot help feeling) a subtle, haunting echo of “Papa’s” 94th Symphony.  Give it a try, and tell me if you think I’m bonkers (I mean, in terms of this claim):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TX0iyydibqg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TX0iyydibqg</a>


 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
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nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Gordo

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11471 on: August 05, 2017, 03:09:07 PM »
Where to recommend some excellent Haydn played on a fortepiano (copy) that sounds like a true fortepiano, played by an obscure Dutch keyboardist (now dead) and recorded on a tiny label?  :) 8)



Quote
An appealing new Haydn recording by the Dutch fortepiano specialist Leen de Broekert. This CD includes:

Capriccio in G (Hob. XVII: 1)
The Capriccio in G major dates from 1765. The piece is written in rondo form and, like C. Ph. E. Bach’s rondos, it evolves from a single motif. This theme is the folksong Acht Sauschneider müssen seyn: “If you have to geld a boar you need eight people. Two in front, two at the back, two to hold the beast, one to tie him up, one to handle the knife.” The piece starts in a simple and naïve way, but in due course it takes the form of a brilliant, compelling improvisation, culminating towards the end in a dramatic fermata, which leads to an inevitable cadenza. The many sequences lend an undeniably baroque flavor to the whole of it.

Andante con Variazioni (Hob. XVII:6)
In 1793 Marianne von Genzinger dies. It is very well possible that Haydn wrote the Andante con Variazioni in reaction to the loss of the woman for whom he felt such an extremely deep sympathy. In the autograph the work is described as Sonata, which probably indicates that the composer planned to write other movements as well. Haydn uses for this piece his favourite double variation formula: two themes – one in the minor, one in the major key – undergo a parallel metamorphosis. Towards the end Haydn drops the caesura marks that separate the minor theme from the major one. Focusing on the dotted  rhythm of the initial motif the composer works, as if in the development section of a sonata, towards an exciting climax.

Leen de Broekert (1949-2009) studied Piano and Organ at the Royal Academy of Music in The Hague. He graduated in both subjects. He also qualified as a harpsichord player and fortepianist with Jos van Immerseel. In 1979 he was one of the laureates of the International Contest for Organ in Bruges, with an honourable citation for his Interpretation of Bach.  As a fortepianist  and organist he was frequently asked for concerts in Germany as well as in Holland. He also performed in England, France, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Italy and Switzerland and recorded several CDs both on pianoforte and organ. Leen de Broekert was the organist of the Koorkerk (Abbey church) in Middelburg. He died, at the age of sixty, after a short illness, in Middelburg on 29 July 2009.

http://www.zefirrecords.nl/album/5f8b4bbc5e7b1381774/leen-de-broekert_haydn-pianoworks.html

http://www.leendebroekert.nl/cd1.html
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-- Penny Lane, Almost Famous (2000)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11472 on: August 05, 2017, 03:12:25 PM »
Where to recommend some excellent Haydn played on a fortepiano (copy) that sounds like a true fortepiano, played by an obscure Dutch keyboardist (now dead) and recorded on a tiny label?  :) 8)



http://www.zefirrecords.nl/album/5f8b4bbc5e7b1381774/leen-de-broekert_haydn-pianoworks.html

http://www.leendebroekert.nl/cd1.html

I can't imagine a place for it, but go ahead and try it here and see what happens. ...........

Oops, hope they had more than 1 copy, I just bought that one... :D 

(Thanks, Gordo) ;)

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11473 on: August 05, 2017, 03:18:59 PM »
I can't imagine a place for it, but go ahead and try it here and see what happens. ...........

Oops, hope they had more than 1 copy, I just bought that one... :D 

(Thanks, Gordo) ;)

8)

My pleasure, dear Gurn:D ;D :D

Did you notice the link to the Capriccio in G? You will get a good idea of the style and sound...

PS: I mean this one

http://www.leendebroekert.nl/cd1.html
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 03:20:53 PM by Gordo »
Isn't it funny? The truth just sounds different.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11474 on: August 05, 2017, 03:33:16 PM »
My pleasure, dear Gurn:D ;D :D

Did you notice the link to the Capriccio in G? You will get a good idea of the style and sound...

PS: I mean this one

http://www.leendebroekert.nl/cd1.html

I hadn't seen it, but am playing it now. Nice resonant instrument, I like the sound. His style with that Capriccio is all his own, too often they all sound the same, which I don't think was the original intention. Nice! :)  I haven't got a new solo keyboard disk in a long time, not that I have them all, I don't suppose, but the remainers are thin on the ground. Last one I got was this, which I highly recommend.  I had to buy it from Amazon UK though, not sold here (at that time).

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11475 on: August 05, 2017, 03:47:18 PM »
I hadn't seen it, but am playing it now. Nice resonant instrument, I like the sound. His style with that Capriccio is all his own, too often they all sound the same, which I don't think was the original intention. Nice! :)  I haven't got a new solo keyboard disk in a long time, not that I have them all, I don't suppose, but the remainers are thin on the ground. Last one I got was this, which I highly recommend.  I had to buy it from Amazon UK though, not sold here (at that time).

8)

Interesting. Irving's name sounds quite familiar... Probably, I saw it as author of some books on Mozart.

This disk looks very enticing, too:



Unfortunately not available on Amazon.  :( 
Isn't it funny? The truth just sounds different.
-- Penny Lane, Almost Famous (2000)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11476 on: August 05, 2017, 05:22:43 PM »
Interesting. Irving's name sounds quite familiar... Probably, I saw it as author of some books on Mozart.

This disk looks very enticing, too:



Unfortunately not available on Amazon.  :(

True in all cases. He did write at least 2 books on playing Mozart keyboard works, which I would like to have. That disk DOES like very enticing indeed, and it isn't available in the US. I may well order it from the UK when the time is right. We follow each other on Twitter, I have 'spoken' with him a couple of times, seems like a nice fellow. :)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11477 on: August 05, 2017, 06:29:22 PM »
London Haydn Quartet - just bought their Op. 54/55 release, below posted a few days ago in the listening thread - continues my collection of their output - as expected, excellent performances and ready for the next release! :)  Dave

Haydn, Joseph - String Quartets, Op. 54/55 w/ the London Haydn Quartet - a continuation of their chronological exploration of Papa's SQs - this 2CD set recorded in November 2015 - I own all up to this point and suspect the next one soon; attached are three reviews, two excellent and one somewhat unexpected from AllMusic (the reviewer has downrated a number of the other SQ releases of this group, esp. Op. 33).  Dave :)

 

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11478 on: August 05, 2017, 07:11:14 PM »
London Haydn Quartet - just bought their Op. 54/55 release, below posted a few days ago in the listening thread - continues my collection of their output - as expected, excellent performances and ready for the next release! :)  Dave

Hey, Dave, yes, that is a very fine set, and indeed, the entire seems to be building momentum as it goes along. Certainly looking forward to Opus 64, maybe this winter (54/55 actually came out in the US back in late February or early March, IIRC). It would be so fine to finally have an entire set by someone to supplement my Festetics set. It takes dedication to do the whole cycle!  :)

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Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11479 on: August 10, 2017, 11:07:27 PM »
I downloaded this disk the other day:



I knew beforehand that the story was that the performer, Klöcker, had three MSs of C18 clarinet concertos, two double concertos from the early classical period, and one later, solo concerto that was obviously written after Mozart's Clarinet Concerto (because it almost quotes it). Klöcker maintains that all three are by Haydn, but no-one else thinks they are, and also the late concerto doesn't sound like it was written by the same composer as the earlier two.

I found the two double concertos to be very agreeable works, and the later one to be really very good. Granted it isn't by Haydn the question then arises who is it by? I listened to a few other recordings of 1790s concertos (for various instruments) that I had and it actually sound quite like Eberl's style. But I guess we'll probably never know.

Still it's a disk worth buying and getting to know.

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