Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 764848 times)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11620 on: November 13, 2017, 06:26:37 PM »
My copy arrived today. Listened already. Quite good. The Kraus was selected because (among other things) FJH called it a masterpiece.

Kraus comes to visit

Kraus was sent by his King on a trip of Europe to broaden his horizons, so to speak. He had taken his symphony in c# minor and transposed it down to c minor to have something to play on his travels. He also left out the minuet, for whatever reason. Anyway, he spent a lot of time at Eszterháza with Haydn, and left a copy of the symphony as a gift for the Prince. It's a first rate work. I have the Concerto Köln recording, I look forward to hearing this one. :)

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kishnevi

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11621 on: November 13, 2017, 06:36:40 PM »
Kraus comes to visit

Kraus was sent by his King on a trip of Europe to broaden his horizons, so to speak. He had taken his symphony in c# minor and transposed it down to c minor to have something to play on his travels. He also left out the minuet, for whatever reason. Anyway, he spent a lot of time at Eszterháza with Haydn, and left a copy of the symphony as a gift for the Prince. It's a first rate work. I have the Concerto Köln recording, I look forward to hearing this one. :)

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The liner notes don't refer to the minuet, but do refer to an extended quote from Gluck.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11622 on: November 13, 2017, 06:39:45 PM »
The liner notes don't refer to the minuet, but do refer to an extended quote from Gluck.

They probably would have only mentioned it if they had left it out, too. :)  IIRC, Gluck said some nice stuff about Kraus, as well he should have. If Kraus had been in Vienna instead of Stockholm, and hadn't died nearly as young as Mozart, he would have been a star instead of a footnote.  IMO, of course.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11623 on: November 14, 2017, 07:15:43 AM »
Kraus comes to visit

Quote
The old canard that Haydn had little or no involvement in anything but writing music is patently false

As in the case of Mozart too. I posted something along these very lines in Gurn's Classical Corner, but nobody cared to comment...
The golden mean, the truth, is no longer recognized or valued. To win applause one must write stuff so simple that a coachman might sing it, or so incomprehensible that it pleases simply because no sensible man can comprehend it. - Mozart

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11624 on: November 14, 2017, 07:35:43 AM »
As in the case of Mozart too. I posted something along these very lines in Gurn's Classical Corner, but nobody cared to comment...

And in Mozart's case, there is some documentation for it. I find it interesting that later historians would take Nannerl's word for it that Mozart would do some crazy shit, and was a bad money manager etc. etc., but when she says he was really fascinated with math and arithmetic in particular, or he knew a great variety of things outside of music, they totally ignored it because it didn't fit their preconceptions. Which were pretty much the same as Salieri's flashbacks in Amadeus.  When I get a bit further in my blog, I will publish a list of all the books in Haydn's library after his death. You will be taken aback.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11625 on: November 14, 2017, 08:49:20 AM »
When I get a bit further in my blog, I will publish a list of all the books in Haydn's library after his death. You will be taken aback.

No, I won't*, but others might very well be.  ;D

* I know for a fact and by personal research that Classical Era composers and musical aesthetics are oftenly and ideologically misconstrued and misunderstood...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 08:51:24 AM by Florestan »
The golden mean, the truth, is no longer recognized or valued. To win applause one must write stuff so simple that a coachman might sing it, or so incomprehensible that it pleases simply because no sensible man can comprehend it. - Mozart

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11626 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21:28 AM »
No, I won't*, but others might very well be.  ;D

* I know for a fact and by personal research that Classical Era composers and musical aesthetics are oftenly and ideologically misconstrued and misunderstood...

Yep. ;)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11627 on: November 19, 2017, 06:57:50 PM »
We like to think we know all about Haydn's works, but most don't know anything about these. In fact, Haydn intended them to be one of his crown jewels, still...

We'll turn Vienna into Mini-London

Have a read,
Thanks,
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kishnevi

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11628 on: November 19, 2017, 07:14:44 PM »
Do you have any idea how familiar Schubert and Brahms were with these works? They being the composers best known in our time for that genre...

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11629 on: November 19, 2017, 07:34:41 PM »
Do you have any idea how familiar Schubert and Brahms were with these works? They being the composers best known in our time for that genre...

Do I know specifically? No, but I'm sure the information is readily available. I would surmise that they were very familiar with them because they were truly popular among people who were into singing. It would be hard to imagine a circumstance by which they would have escaped attention, most especially the religious ones. Schubert would know them for sure, Brahms most likely.

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11630 on: December 17, 2017, 04:58:29 PM »
Boy, sure been quiet in da Haus:P

I have now arrived at some of the most important works of Haydn's career, and approaching them with the aim on writing about them is imposing. Fortunately, only this year (1796) has more than one of them, so I can sneak up on them a bit. :)   The first of the Six Great Masses is the Heiligmesse for St. Bernard de Offida. I found out plenty, and even at that just scratched the surface. Have a look and see if it jibes up with what you always thought about it. I know I had a couple of surprises!

The Blessed Bernard? Who dat?

Thanks,
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kishnevi

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11631 on: December 17, 2017, 06:49:15 PM »
The third piece from King Alfred does need to be recorded.  Just record enough of the succeeding dialogue to give the listener an idea of why the music breaks off.

I mean,  singers do bleeding chunks that break off suddenly all the time...it's no stretch for a bleeding chunk which the composer himself breaks off.

There is a Mass which can be called predecessor to LvB 9:. his own Missa Solemnis.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11632 on: December 17, 2017, 07:47:31 PM »
The third piece from King Alfred does need to be recorded.  Just record enough of the succeeding dialogue to give the listener an idea of why the music breaks off.

I mean,  singers do bleeding chunks that break off suddenly all the time...it's no stretch for a bleeding chunk which the composer himself breaks off.

There is a Mass which can be called predecessor to LvB 9:. his own Missa Solemnis.

I would like to hear it, although I'm not sure it has even been published yet, Landon did the others but said he didn't bother with this. Maybe one day. Do you have the Hickox disk?  It is also in the Complete Masses, but this cover was too perfect. :)

Yes, being as they are back-to-back works, the influence of one on the other is practically inevitable. I always thought of the Choral Fantasy as a real preview of the 4th movement of the 9th.... :)

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11633 on: December 17, 2017, 08:01:38 PM »
Don't have the Chandos recordings: the Naxos set and the Decca set that involves Gardiner are what I have.

Maybe we can start a GoFundMe campaign to record that duet.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11634 on: December 17, 2017, 08:04:41 PM »
Don't have the Chandos recordings: the Naxos set and the Decca set that involves Gardiner are what I have.

Maybe we can start a GoFundMe campaign to record that duet.

Boy, if that was do-able; I have a nice list of never-been-recorded Haydn, they would be perfect to get done before the next set of London Symphonies hits the shelves. :-\

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Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11635 on: December 18, 2017, 07:10:52 PM »
I was just thinking how interesting it would be do to some sort of comparison of Haydn with his brother Michael. It might be interesting to compare what they were doing, how much they might have followed each other (or not), influences that were the same or different, etc. Not saying we expect you to do it or anything, just one of those, "Hey, that would be interesting moments." 
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11636 on: December 18, 2017, 07:18:03 PM »
I was just thinking how interesting it would be do to some sort of comparison of Haydn with his brother Michael. It might be interesting to compare what they were doing, how much they might have followed each other (or not), influences that were the same or different, etc. Not saying we expect you to do it or anything, just one of those, "Hey, that would be interesting moments."

I agree, it certainly would be nice to know a lot more than we do.

I've actually done quite a bit of the research, in a 'by-the-way' sort of manner so far. There are no extant letters between them, sadly, but they did have moments where they met or at least intended to, and it seems they must have been in fairly regular contact even though we don't know what was said.  I can tell you that when we get past the turn of the century, Michael will enter the discussion at least two or three times, far more than he has to date. Apparently, travel between Vienna and Salzburg in those days was not common.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11637 on: December 19, 2017, 04:56:30 AM »
The golden mean, the truth, is no longer recognized or valued. To win applause one must write stuff so simple that a coachman might sing it, or so incomprehensible that it pleases simply because no sensible man can comprehend it. - Mozart

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11638 on: December 19, 2017, 05:12:52 AM »
Excellent. Thanks a lot!

Back at'cha! Glad you enjoyed. :)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11639 on: December 19, 2017, 05:17:34 AM »
Back at'cha! Glad you enjoyed. :)

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Your work is priceless. I humbly bow to your devotion and passion.
The golden mean, the truth, is no longer recognized or valued. To win applause one must write stuff so simple that a coachman might sing it, or so incomprehensible that it pleases simply because no sensible man can comprehend it. - Mozart