Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 843240 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Daverz

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4823
  • You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down!
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11660 on: January 06, 2018, 08:43:50 PM »
I've enjoyed some of the earlier 2032 issues, but here the spunky little orchestra sounds wrong to me in these later works (80 & 81), including the coupled Kraus Symphony in C#.



Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31348
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11661 on: January 07, 2018, 07:26:49 AM »
I've enjoyed some of the earlier 2032 issues, but here the spunky little orchestra sounds wrong to me in these later works (80 & 81), including the coupled Kraus Symphony in C#.



Well, it IS a different orchestra though. The Basel orchestra is larger than Il Giardino, possibly not as large as you would like, but at least as large (or larger) than Haydn's own opera orchestra that he wrote them for. I don't feel like there is a good argument for large until we get to the very next symphony, #82 for Paris. I hope then that they go with at least 40 pieces. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 50733
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, Frescobaldi, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Chopin, Haydn, Henning
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11662 on: January 07, 2018, 12:26:36 PM »
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Online Daverz

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4823
  • You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down!
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11663 on: January 07, 2018, 03:20:17 PM »
Well, it IS a different orchestra though. The Basel orchestra is larger than Il Giardino, possibly not as large as you would like, but at least as large (or larger) than Haydn's own opera orchestra that he wrote them for. I don't feel like there is a good argument for large until we get to the very next symphony, #82 for Paris. I hope then that they go with at least 40 pieces. :)

8)

Yes, I missed that.  I'll probably give it another shot later.

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3815
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11664 on: January 11, 2018, 01:48:27 AM »
I've enjoyed some of the earlier 2032 issues, but here the spunky little orchestra sounds wrong to me in these later works (80 & 81), including the coupled Kraus Symphony in C#.


Well, it IS a different orchestra though. The Basel orchestra is larger than Il Giardino, possibly not as large as you would like, but at least as large (or larger) than Haydn's own opera orchestra that he wrote them for. I don't feel like there is a good argument for large until we get to the very next symphony, #82 for Paris. I hope then that they go with at least 40 pieces. :)

8)
Different reason why I don't think this latest in the (wonderful) series is not quite up to scratch: somehow the orchestra - or the collaboration of Antonini with them - just doesn't have the same punch and nuttiness as Il giardino armonico. But I'll have to give it another spin again soon.
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Brian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20358
    • Brian's blog
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11665 on: January 11, 2018, 07:15:13 AM »
I'm with you guys - although I don't necessarily think that the orchestra is the problem, I do think that they underplay the eccentricity and rhythmic inspiration of No. 80. Prefer the recent Dantone.

Offline king ubu

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3815
  • sic transit gloria mundi
    • ubu's notizen
  • Location: Zurich, Switzerland
  • Currently Listening to:
    all music
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11666 on: January 14, 2018, 02:13:09 AM »
Saw the Kammerorchester Basel in concert on Friday, cond. Mario Venzago, Khatia Buniatishvili doing the Schumann after the Genoveva ouvrture, and then the Rhenish after the break. They were fine for sure, but somehow it felt as if Venzago was aiming for something a little bit more exciting and explosive than they were able to give to him (not a problem with Buniatishvili, she's almost too much in almost every respect ... I wasn't 100% convinced, but she was effective indeed).
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31348
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11667 on: January 15, 2018, 05:48:14 AM »
I'm with you guys - although I don't necessarily think that the orchestra is the problem, I do think that they underplay the eccentricity and rhythmic inspiration of No. 80. Prefer the recent Dantone.

Dantone is a very fine recording, but in #80, Freiburg Baroque hasn't been topped yet. I am, as always, delighted to have another take on this work. Every performance shows a different idea of how to realize Haydn's vision, and I don't negatively criticize any of them. The fact that Dantone was the ONLY #81 (and 79) shows how much room there is for different ideas to be put out there. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31348
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11668 on: January 15, 2018, 06:04:02 AM »
Saw the Kammerorchester Basel in concert on Friday, cond. Mario Venzago, Khatia Buniatishvili doing the Schumann after the Genoveva ouvrture, and then the Rhenish after the break. They were fine for sure, but somehow it felt as if Venzago was aiming for something a little bit more exciting and explosive than they were able to give to him (not a problem with Buniatishvili, she's almost too much in almost every respect ... I wasn't 100% convinced, but she was effective indeed).

SOunds like an interesting programme. Kammerorchester Basel also play modern instruments when they play newer repertoire like that. Did that seem to be the case?  Maybe they just need a conductor who can light a fire under their asses. Although if Antonini didn't, who can? :o

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gordo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3886
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11669 on: January 15, 2018, 06:20:48 AM »
SOunds like an interesting programme. Kammerorchester Basel also play modern instruments when they play newer repertoire like that. Did that seem to be the case?  Maybe they just need a conductor who can light a fire under their asses. Although if Antonini didn't, who can? :o

8)

Probably it has been mentioned before, but their disk with Viviane Chassot is a delight. The transcriptions sound completely idiomatic and the partnership between orchestra and soloist is perfect  :)

Musica lætitiæ comes medicina dolorum
(Music is a companion to joy and a medicine for pains)

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31348
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11670 on: January 15, 2018, 08:39:45 AM »
Probably it has been mentioned before, but their disk with Viviane Chassot is a delight. The transcriptions sound completely idiomatic and the partnership between orchestra and soloist is perfect  :)



Certainly not been mentioned to me, I hadn't seen this disk before. That bears looking into! Thanks, G...

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

The One

  • Guest
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11671 on: January 15, 2018, 10:08:07 AM »
but in #80, Freiburg Baroque hasn't been topped yet.

I take it I should buy this, should I? What else in 80?

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31348
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11672 on: January 15, 2018, 11:31:31 AM »
I take it I should buy this, should I? What else in 80?

Of the 3 in this grop (79-81), 80 was the only one that was ever recorded on PI, until last year when Dantone did all 3 of them. So there are just those 2, and then the new one with Antonini/Basel with 80 & 81, which just came out. So choices are thin on the ground for now:

79 - Dantone
80 - Freiburg Bar. - Dantone - Antonini
81 - Dantone - Antonini

They are Haydn's last symphonies before the Paris ones, and very interesting, which makes the lack of recordings all the harder to understand. :-\

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3877
  • Location: Germany
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11673 on: January 15, 2018, 01:54:24 PM »
on modern instruments the Orpheus chamber orchestra (DG) and as far as I recall also Adam Fischer (Nimbus/Brilliant) do a good job with 79-81. But this requires to buy three separate discs in the first case and probably a box set in the second.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

kishnevi

  • Guest
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11674 on: January 15, 2018, 07:07:32 PM »
Email today from LSOLive announced a Haydn CD from Rattle
https://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/all-products/products/haydn-an-imaginary-orchestral-journey
Track listing
1. I. Introduction: Representation of Chaos: Largo (From The Creation, Hob.XXI:2)
2. II. The Earthquake: Presto e con tutta la forza (From The Seven Last Words of our Saviour on the Cross, Hob.XX:1)
3. IIIa. Sinfonia: Largo - Vivace assai (From L'isola disabitata, Hob.Ia:13)
4. IIIb. Sinfonia: Allegretto - Vivace (From L'isola disabitata, Hob.Ia:13)
5. IV. Largo (From Symphony No. 64 in A major, Hob.I:64)
6. V. Minuet & Trio (From Symphony No. 6 in D major, Hob.I:6)
7. VI. Finale: Presto (From Symphony No. 46 in B major, Hob.I:46)
8. VII. Finale: Prestissimo (From Symphony No. 60 in C major, Hob.I:60)
9. VIII. Introduction to Winter (Original version) (From The Seasons, Hob.XXI:3)
10. IXa. Finale: Presto (From Symphony No. 45 in F-sharp minor, Hob.I:45)
11. IXb. Finale: Adagio (From Symphony No. 45 in F-sharp minor, Hob.I:45)
12. X. Music for Musical Clocks (From Flötenuhrstücke, Hob.XIX:1-32)
13. XI. Finale: Allegro assai (From Symphony No. 90 in C major, Hob.I:90)

Quote
Sir Simon Rattle pays homage to a composer he holds close to his heart with An Imaginary Orchestral Journey through the music of Joseph Haydn. Rattle trawls through the great composer’s impressive catalogue, piecing together excerpts from symphonies, oratorios and operas spanning a 40-year period in what the director describes as ‘a kind of greatest hits’ format.

‘The idea is to make a musical journey through all that is quirky and extraordinary, humorous and profound in Haydn,’ the LSO’s Music Director explains. Sir Simon’s focus is on Haydn as innovator, showcasing his most forward-looking and outlandish works in 50 minutes of uninterrupted performance.

What results from Sir Simon’s pasticcio is a clear image of the composer he sees to best represent the ideals of the Enlightenment, his selection meticulously arranged to best demonstrate Haydn’s intelligence, wit and thoughtfulness.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 07:10:18 PM by Jeffrey Smith »

The One

  • Guest
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11675 on: January 16, 2018, 02:13:04 AM »
Of the 3 in this grop (79-81), 80 was the only one that was ever recorded on PI, until last year when Dantone did all 3 of them. So there are just those 2, and then the new one with Antonini/Basel with 80 & 81, which just came out. So choices are thin on the ground for now:

79 - Dantone
80 - Freiburg Bar. - Dantone - Antonini
81 - Dantone - Antonini

They are Haydn's last symphonies before the Paris ones, and very interesting, which makes the lack of recordings all the harder to understand. :-\

8)

I'll try FBO then. I guess the problem with the 3 (79-81) which are for "public at large" is that I don't remember much after listening to them :)

The One

  • Guest
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11676 on: January 16, 2018, 02:14:45 AM »
on modern instruments the Orpheus chamber orchestra (DG) and as far as I recall also Adam Fischer (Nimbus/Brilliant) do a good job with 79-81. But this requires to buy three separate discs in the first case and probably a box set in the second.

Thanks. I have the complete sets, Dorati, Fischer, Davies and the OCO. I was going for PI with the hand of the PI-in-Charge

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3877
  • Location: Germany
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11677 on: January 16, 2018, 02:23:37 AM »
With all respect, I utterly fail to see the point of the Pasticcio offered by Rattle. While a similar procedure made some with Minkowski and other putting instrumental stuff from Rameau's Operas and Balletts together and similar suites from Rimsky operas have a long tradition, why do this with Haydn symphonies that are integral instrumental works and not overly long. Or if he wants to do a disc with ouvertures or introductions why throw in symphony movements?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Turner

  • Guest
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11678 on: January 16, 2018, 03:42:17 AM »
With all respect, I utterly fail to see the point of the Pasticcio offered by Rattle. While a similar procedure made some with Minkowski and other putting instrumental stuff from Rameau's Operas and Balletts together and similar suites from Rimsky operas have a long tradition, why do this with Haydn symphonies that are integral instrumental works and not overly long. Or if he wants to do a disc with ouvertures or introductions why throw in symphony movements?

I agree, most buyers would go for more, complete works, obtainable for the same price these days. Also, if one then continues the suggested journey and afterwards invests in other, complete recordings of some of the works, they are likely to be quite different in style and execution compared to the fragments presented by Rattle - with a possibility of them being disappointing too.
 
There´s an example of a positive review here, though
https://bachtrack.com/review-haydn-rattle-kozhukhin-london-symphony-july-2017
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 03:45:25 AM by Turner »

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 50733
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, Frescobaldi, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Chopin, Haydn, Henning
Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11679 on: January 16, 2018, 04:02:40 AM »
Email today from LSOLive announced a Haydn CD from Rattle
https://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/all-products/products/haydn-an-imaginary-orchestral-journey
Track listing
1. I. Introduction: Representation of Chaos: Largo (From The Creation, Hob.XXI:2)
2. II. The Earthquake: Presto e con tutta la forza (From The Seven Last Words of our Saviour on the Cross, Hob.XX:1)
3. IIIa. Sinfonia: Largo - Vivace assai (From L'isola disabitata, Hob.Ia:13)
4. IIIb. Sinfonia: Allegretto - Vivace (From L'isola disabitata, Hob.Ia:13)
5. IV. Largo (From Symphony No. 64 in A major, Hob.I:64)
6. V. Minuet & Trio (From Symphony No. 6 in D major, Hob.I:6)
7. VI. Finale: Presto (From Symphony No. 46 in B major, Hob.I:46)
8. VII. Finale: Prestissimo (From Symphony No. 60 in C major, Hob.I:60)
9. VIII. Introduction to Winter (Original version) (From The Seasons, Hob.XXI:3)
10. IXa. Finale: Presto (From Symphony No. 45 in F-sharp minor, Hob.I:45)
11. IXb. Finale: Adagio (From Symphony No. 45 in F-sharp minor, Hob.I:45)
12. X. Music for Musical Clocks (From Flötenuhrstücke, Hob.XIX:1-32)
13. XI. Finale: Allegro assai (From Symphony No. 90 in C major, Hob.I:90)

Quote
[...] Rattle trawls through the great composer’s impressive catalogue [...]

Probably a question of my own remove from fishing activity, but I don’t read trawl as an especially flattering verb  8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot