Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 883719 times)

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Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11560 on: October 19, 2017, 02:41:55 PM »
The only Haydn Symphony I heard in concert was "The Flatulent." Which number is that, and Gurn, what key is it in?

93, D major ...see? nicknames are useful  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11561 on: October 19, 2017, 02:56:35 PM »
op.33#4 is the one in B flat major, it is probably the least well known of the set. I don't remember anything particular about it either...
Listened to it: has an arresting opening on a third inversion dominant 7th chord, unlike any other Haydn quartet I've heard, so that may help to fix it in my memory. Very good quartet obviously, with a real sense of sounding revolutionary and like nothing that'd been done before (which is true of all the Op. 33s), but have to say the musical material is simply not as memorable to me as e.g. op. 33/3.

With Symphony No. 93 I mostly remember the finale, its butter-wouldn't-melt-in-mouth main theme, and its idiosyncratic excursion to D-flat major at one point with a solo cello, but I guess "The One That Goes Into D-flat Major At One Point" isn't a very good nickname
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 02:58:35 PM by amw »

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11562 on: October 19, 2017, 03:00:17 PM »
93, D major ...see? nicknames are useful  ;D

Yes, I had it on an Antal Dorati LP!

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11563 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:12 PM »
With Symphony No. 93 I mostly remember the finale, its butter-wouldn't-melt-in-mouth main theme, and its idiosyncratic excursion to D-flat major at one point with a solo cello, but I guess "The One That Goes Into D-flat Major At One Point" isn't a very good nickname

Are you telling me, you're sitting in the concert hall, and you say to yourself, "interesting that it has gone into D-flat major"?

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11564 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:37 PM »
The only Haydn Symphony I heard in concert was "The Flatulent."

I've heard a few more Haydn symphonies, not many though, considering the fact that I've been attending concerts for 50 years. I suppose that is proof Papa isn't popular with un-HIP orchestras and their audiences. A pity.

75 Aldo Ceccato/Cleveland
101 Welser-Möst/LPO
96 Szell/Cleveland
26 Boulez/Cleveland
104 Celibidache/Stuttgart RSO

Sarge

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11565 on: October 19, 2017, 03:05:11 PM »
93 is a good one to hear live. If the bassoonist doesn't turn red in the face, he's not doing it right.  :)

I think it was the Mostly Mozart Festival Orchestra. More than 30 years ago. :(

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11566 on: October 19, 2017, 03:10:35 PM »
Are you telling me, you're sitting in the concert hall, and you say to yourself, "interesting that it has gone into D-flat major"?
well yeah? the first time I heard no. 93 was in a live concert and among many moments that stood out was one where the orchestra was hammering away at unison Cs in the finale and then stopped except for one, very tentative, solo cello, and I thought "damn, this is a special moment" and then the orchestra came back in on Db fortissimo and started with the main theme again...

(also oops I checked a score just now and it actually doesn't go into Db major, that hammering is on C# not C and thus the theme actually comes back in the tonic just like every other symphony. I guess that is the danger of going to hear a period instrument group playing at A=426 or whatever when you have absolute pitch :( )

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11567 on: October 19, 2017, 03:12:26 PM »
93 is a good one to hear live. If the bassoonist doesn't turn red in the face, he's not doing it right.  :)

Szell's bassoonist probably had a stroke after hitting that note. Best fart on record  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11568 on: October 19, 2017, 03:19:37 PM »
well yeah? the first time I heard no. 93 was in a live concert and among many moments that stood out was one where the orchestra was hammering away at unison Cs in the finale and then stopped except for one, very tentative, solo cello, and I thought "damn, this is a special moment" and then the orchestra came back in on Db fortissimo and started with the main theme again...

(also oops I checked a score just now and it actually doesn't go into Db major, that hammering is on C# not C and thus the theme actually comes back in the tonic just like every other symphony. I guess that is the danger of going to hear a period instrument group playing at A=426 or whatever when you have absolute pitch :( )

Absolute pitch, fair enough. But the newly minted nickname "The One That Goes into D-flat at One Point" is canceled. :(

Anyway, I have to listen to that one.

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11569 on: October 19, 2017, 03:21:02 PM »
Szell's bassoonist probably had a stroke after hitting that note. Best fart on record  8)

Sarge

Maybe I'll listen to my Harnoncourt recording. He probably did research on 18th century culinary history to inform the performance of the faux fart.  :)

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11570 on: October 19, 2017, 03:23:44 PM »
Maybe I'll listen to my Harnoncourt recording. He probably did research on 18th century culinary history to inform the performance of the faux fart.  :)

 ;D :D ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11571 on: October 19, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »
Absolute pitch, fair enough. But the newly minted nickname "The One That Goes into D-flat at One Point" is canceled. :(

Anyway, I have to listen to that one.
I did a quick search and the concert I was at is actually on youtube!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/S26buIrMJoo" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/S26buIrMJoo</a>

Living in the UK had its perks I guess....

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11572 on: October 19, 2017, 04:04:31 PM »
Absolute pitch, fair enough. But the newly minted nickname "The One That Goes into D-flat at One Point" is canceled. :(

Anyway, I have to listen to that one.

I don't have perfect pitch, or any pitch at all, but I remember that Largo well, because the setup for the Great Bassoon Fart Joke is an alternation between a theme that sounds like an old French ouverture style and a very modern sounding theme, like Haydn was contrasting the two to show the difference. He comes back with the 'old' theme very quiet and they nearly stop, then when you expect the 'new' theme straight out, you get the great bassoon fart instead, then the 'new' theme. I have to believe the audience was rolling in the aisles back in 1792 when that one premiered. :)

8)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:12:31 PM by Gurn Blanston »
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Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11573 on: October 19, 2017, 07:27:22 PM »
I have to believe the audience was rolling in the aisles back in 1792 when that one premiered. :)

Mozart would have loved it. :)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11574 on: October 20, 2017, 04:54:02 AM »
Mozart would have loved it. :)

No question about it. :D

Which provokes some thoughts about it: Haydn had it verified for him that Mozart's death was more than a rumor just before Christmas 1791. This was his first symphony of 1792, probably being composed at the same time. It almost makes one wonder if this was some sort of tributary fart? Bearing in mind that Haydn was no more nor less earthy than his best friend... :-\  That will bear some looking in to.

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Online Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11575 on: October 20, 2017, 05:21:15 AM »
Key does help a bit, but then cross-checked with period or number. For instance I'm aware in my head of a C major London and an E flat major London that isn't the Drum Roll...
This is 99, the one Sarge dubbed "the cat" (because supposedly one theme sounds like meowing).
For me it is the one with the "clarinet fugue" in the finale (it's not really a fugue but clarinets are most prominent). The C major is #97 with the charming violin solo (marked "Salomon solo, ma piano") in the trio of the menuet and a nice variation second movement where at one stage the violins play sul ponticello for a strange sound effect (unfortunately one rarely hears this sounding as eerie as it could).
Both are great favorites of mine that I prefer to several nicknamed ones (such as Clock or Military).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11576 on: October 20, 2017, 09:14:07 AM »
Did go ahead and listen to Harnoncourt's '93. He didn't really do justice to the fart, although I immensely enjoyed the spirited performance, particularly horns in the first movement.  The moment in the finale where the orchestra comes to play the leading tone in unison, fortissimo, dissolving to a solo cello just before the main theme returns was indeed memorable. A wonderful play of trumpet and drums in the menuetto, as well.

This is one of the Haydn symphonies I remember specifically, probably because I had the LP back in the day.
 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 12:15:38 PM by Scarpia »

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11577 on: October 21, 2017, 06:25:45 AM »
More Haydn fans out there than I ever expected... :)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11578 on: October 30, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »
To know me is to know how much I like the 7 Last Words, no matter the particular arrangement presented. The original "instrumental oratorio", the string quartet or solo keyboard, all are well-suited to please. Now, ten years after he first presented it, Haydn has arranged it as an oratorio, believed by many to be the best version of all. Not sure about that myself, but that is not to say I don't enjoy it equally. And so in this essay I tried to find some interesting background about it. I think I did...

well, they were the 7 last phrases, actually...

Thanks,
8)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 07:08:07 AM by Gurn Blanston »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11579 on: November 05, 2017, 08:22:04 AM »
(crosspost with A Little History thread)

Just the other week I've listened to Haydn's Paris Symphonies and a (heretical) thought crossed my mind. Supppose the six symphonies are disassembled in their constitutive movements and then these are shuffled randomly to reconstitute a symphony. For instance, we could get the first movement from The Bear, the second movement from The Hen, the minuet from The Queen and the finale of the 87th. Question(s): would it make any difference? Would this concoction be any less coherent than the originals? Would an unprevented listener be able to feel and tell that there is something wrong with it? At first sight I'm tempted to answer in the negative.
“Melody is the essence of music." ~ Mozart