Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 842734 times)

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Online Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11980 on: November 19, 2018, 06:32:04 AM »
I also bought the separate discs ca. 10 years ago at some expense - but they are very good. The Amati also did a good op.77 (more competition here and maybe not quite as distinctive as their op.50) as well as a mixed Mozart/Haydn disc (I don't have the latter and am not sure which works are included).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11981 on: November 19, 2018, 07:00:47 AM »
I have the older (original?) version of those: when I got them they supplanted the Tokyo's as my favorite (MI) version. I like their style! :)

8)

Wow. I was wondering whether I should go for them... but apparently YES! :-)

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11982 on: November 19, 2018, 12:24:39 PM »
Yeah, 600 pages, thanks for all the blogs Gurn, and the illuminating discussions... on to 1000!

 :D

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11983 on: November 19, 2018, 12:37:59 PM »
Yeah, 600 pages, thanks for all the blogs Gurn, and the illuminating discussions... on to 1000!

 :D

I very much appreciate everyone's contributions. I try to learn something new every day. :)

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Offline JBS

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11984 on: November 19, 2018, 01:54:35 PM »
Does anyone know if this is worth checking out if it becomes available in the US?


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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11985 on: November 19, 2018, 02:02:36 PM »
Does anyone know if this is worth checking out if it becomes available in the US?


People who really like historic recordings tell me that this is the best Haydn cycle of its time by far. IIRC, Märzendorfer was the first to use Landon's UR-scores, and he was philosophically attuned to the music quite well. If you like historic recordings, this could well be just what you want. :)

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Offline JBS

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11986 on: November 19, 2018, 02:05:25 PM »
People who really like historic recordings tell me that this is the best Haydn cycle of its time by far. IIRC, Märzendorfer was the first to use Landon's UR-scores, and he was philosophically attuned to the music quite well. If you like historic recordings, this could well be just what you want. :)

8)

Thanks! Although if the publicity blurbs are correct, this was for a while the best cycle simply because it was the only one!


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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11987 on: November 19, 2018, 05:12:46 PM »
Thanks! Although if the publicity blurbs are correct, this was for a while the best cycle simply because it was the only one!

The only complete cycle, yes, but just like now, there were other efforts out there. Some were quite good, like Leslie Jones and the Little Orchestra. I've been told it was overall better than Dorati, for what it's worth.

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11988 on: November 20, 2018, 01:21:02 AM »
Eleven-page long review of Maerzendorfer's cycle here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Mar/Maerzendorfer_Haydn_article.pdf

Excerpt: The evidence  here  is  that  Maerzendorfer  had  Haydn  in  his bloodstream  while  Dorati  was  just  doing  a  professional  job.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 01:23:22 AM by Florestan »
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11989 on: November 20, 2018, 05:24:39 AM »
Eleven-page long review of Maerzendorfer's cycle here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Mar/Maerzendorfer_Haydn_article.pdf

Excerpt: The evidence  here  is  that  Maerzendorfer  had  Haydn  in  his bloodstream  while  Dorati  was  just  doing  a  professional  job.


Yup. Haven't read that yet, but people (old guys, I assume) who were really into those original recordings were unanimous about the Märzendorfer being the way to go. Of course, they meant hunting down that huge box set of vinyl pressings and hoping you didn't get any Frisbees. Release on CD can only be a good thing, IMO. :)

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Offline Daverz

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11990 on: November 20, 2018, 11:43:38 AM »
Does anyone know if this is worth checking out if it becomes available in the US?


From the website:

"Before you ask:

No, we did not manage to find the original tapes if they ever still exist....

Musical Heritage Society was bought by Passionato in 2011, I read and the latter seems to have ceased business a few years ago (I could not find any accurate information on its "disappearance"), hence the sources are good old vinyl  :)"

And there was no one at MHS who knew were the tapes were, either (I asked). 

Depending on the quality of the transfers, this should be an interesting set for obsessive Haydn collectors.  But I'd suggest the Dennis Russell Davies for a first set.

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11991 on: November 20, 2018, 11:53:13 AM »
Excerpt: The evidence  here  is  that  Maerzendorfer  had  Haydn  in  his bloodstream  while  Dorati  was  just  doing  a  professional  job.


Despite being a fan of Dorati in general, his Haydn set, with a few exceptions, was a series of rushed run-throughs. They basically did it at a rate of a symphony a week. Listening to it, I had the impression is was not far from sight-reading at times.

Online Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11992 on: November 20, 2018, 12:17:16 PM »
I am only familiar with about a dozen or so of the Dorati recordings and although some fit this description I think they are on average better than that. There are also a few that are very good. His #90 was my favorite until the most recent Rattle with Berlin came around.

Some of Märzendorfer's were available in private transfers or otherwise floating around on the internet. E.g. from "Haydn House" Like with Goberman, Leslie Jones and other somewhat obscure LP recordings, I found that they usually varied wildly both in sound quality and interpretation.

But what certainly is somewhat depressing that the Märzendorfer was so poorly distributed in the ca. 20 years until the 1990s when it would have been competitive with Dorati.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11993 on: November 22, 2018, 09:12:27 AM »
I was finally able to get my software talking to the blog site, so I cleaned up some grotesque formatting flaws, and dammit, I just made it prettier!  :-[  Even got the permalink to stay the same.
 
You would have thought finishing and staging The Creation would have been  enough to keep Haydn amused for the rest of 1798, but no... he turned around and wrote his most famous Mass on top of that!  :o  I enjoyed looking into the background of this work, since I got to listen to it a lot. It stands up well to that. :)

Desperate times require desperate masses!  :D

Thanks,
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Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11994 on: December 02, 2018, 06:42:01 PM »
I just had to share this story. So quite some MANY years ago, I posted here with the question of whether the complete Brilliant set of Scottish and Welsh Songs was worth acquiring. And the answer, all those years ago was a determined maybe. As I remember it, Gurn was enthusiastic about them (and this set), but wasn't sure whether anyone beyond the Haydn nut would really want ALL of them. Well, I have occasionally seen pretty decent deals of $40 or so for the set, but in the back of my mind was always the question of whether I would get $40 worth of enjoyment out of them.  So I decided, eventually, that if I could get a great deal on them, say less than $1 per disc (so less than $18), I would snap them up. Surely I could find enough enjoyment for that.

Well, despairing of ever finding them, I did see a disc of Janet Baker singing a selection of Scottish songs (as well as some of Beethoven) on Testament. And at $6, I figured, what the hay, let's at least get a few of them and see what I think. Well, I heard a few of the songs and they seemed ok (quite a mix), but then disaster! The disc was damaged and many tracks simply didn't play. I tried 3 players and all had the problem, so it is a technical problem in the disc and just today I printed the return label (with a heavy heart). Well this evening, as I was finalizing a jpc order (because they sent a 10% off coupon - nice timing!), I noticed the Haydn box was on sale. But not just any sale, a sale of mammoth proportion. After 10% off (keeping in mind that order to the US also remove VAT), the total for the set (excluding postage) came to the miraculous total of...are you ready for it?   <drum roll please> ….EUR 9.82!! Or $11.15!!!!

Well, I figured it was a sign, and I didn't need to be told twice. So barring any unfortunate 'in stock' problem with the item, I should relatively soon have this intriguing and long delayed box winging its way to me.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 06:43:42 PM by mc ukrneal »
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11995 on: December 02, 2018, 08:06:17 PM »
I just had to share this story. So quite some MANY years ago, I posted here with the question of whether the complete Brilliant set of Scottish and Welsh Songs was worth acquiring. And the answer, all those years ago was a determined maybe. As I remember it, Gurn was enthusiastic about them (and this set), but wasn't sure whether anyone beyond the Haydn nut would really want ALL of them. Well, I have occasionally seen pretty decent deals of $40 or so for the set, but in the back of my mind was always the question of whether I would get $40 worth of enjoyment out of them.  So I decided, eventually, that if I could get a great deal on them, say less than $1 per disc (so less than $18), I would snap them up. Surely I could find enough enjoyment for that.

Well, despairing of ever finding them, I did see a disc of Janet Baker singing a selection of Scottish songs (as well as some of Beethoven) on Testament. And at $6, I figured, what the hay, let's at least get a few of them and see what I think. Well, I heard a few of the songs and they seemed ok (quite a mix), but then disaster! The disc was damaged and many tracks simply didn't play. I tried 3 players and all had the problem, so it is a technical problem in the disc and just today I printed the return label (with a heavy heart). Well this evening, as I was finalizing a jpc order (because they sent a 10% off coupon - nice timing!), I noticed the Haydn box was on sale. But not just any sale, a sale of mammoth proportion. After 10% off (keeping in mind that order to the US also remove VAT), the total for the set (excluding postage) came to the miraculous total of...are you ready for it?   <drum roll please> ….EUR 9.82!! Or $11.15!!!!

Well, I figured it was a sign, and I didn't need to be told twice. So barring any unfortunate 'in stock' problem with the item, I should relatively soon have this intriguing and long delayed box winging its way to me.



Ha, that's great! And it IS a sign, a sign that all things come to him who waits. :)  Since then I have got several other disks of those songs (the Canzonets  usually have a few) and I like them more than ever. (I've even taken to keeping an 'Everyman's Robert Burns' next to my chair ::) ).  Hope you are keen on them. I have a couple of very informative background essays, BTW...

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Offline Ainsi la nuit

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11996 on: December 06, 2018, 04:55:03 PM »
I listened to the nigh-forgotten early oratorio Il ritorno di Tobia for the first time tonight and quite enjoyed it, though it was very long indeed.

What is the general consensus on the work here at GMC? I'd be interested to hear.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11997 on: December 06, 2018, 07:43:09 PM »
I listened to the nigh-forgotten early oratorio Il ritorno di Tobia for the first time tonight and quite enjoyed it, though it was very long indeed.

What is the general consensus on the work here at GMC? I'd be interested to hear.

I became a fan of it when I was writing about it: Il ritorno di Tobia.  I also went back through several other 18th century Austro/Italian oratorios by Fux, Caldara etc., and discovered in the process that ALL oratorios of the time were really long!  I guess it is an acquired taste, although they didn't have a lot of other amusements to distract them.

If you listened to the Naxos (Spering) recording, you heard the extra arias he added for the later (1784 or 85) performance which are especially nice. You can be consoled by the fact that he also cut out quite a lot of extra verbiage...  :D 

Welcome to The Haus,

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