Haydn's Haus

[SonicMan46]

Gurn - thanks again for your continuing chronological saga of Haydn's career - a lot of those pics look familiar, also being in my collection, but a lot of new ones - I'm fine w/ my quartet collection except in obtaining the newest of the London Haydn Quartet, which will be added to my wish list!  But I'll need to work on some PI additions to the early & middle symphonies!  Dave

[Leon]

Beghin on Naxos is even more historically inclined than Schornsheim! I strongly recommend his set, it's a bargain for 13 CD's plus a 3 hour DVD from which I learned a lot! He has divided up the total into 10 programs that are related, and plays each program on a suitable instrument. This is a very interesting set.

Thanks for that, hope you find it useful too.

Noted, and ordered from Arkiv Music who is having a Naxos sale.  @ $35 I could not pass up on another set of these works on PI, plus the DVD should prove well worth having.

[Gurn Blanston]

Noted, and ordered from Arkiv Music who is having a Naxos sale.  @ $35 I could not pass up on another set of these works on PI, plus the DVD should prove well worth having.

I think you will be pleased, Arnold. I found the entire presentation quite fascinating. Can't go wrong at the price, either.

Gurn - thanks again for your continuing chronological saga of Haydn's career - a lot of those pics look familiar, also being in my collection, but a lot of new ones - I'm fine w/ my quartet collection except in obtaining the newest of the London Haydn Quartet, which will be added to my wish list!  But I'll need to work on some PI additions to the early & middle symphonies!  Dave

My pleasure, Dave. I hope that it brings up some things that most folks don't know. I find my own appreciation is always enhanced by knowing more.

I am going to get that Op 20 also. I listened to that Esterházy 4tet disk last night and bemoaned that they only did those 2 quartets. Sure were nice though.

[Antoine Marchand]

I am going to get that Op 20 also. I listened to that Esterházy 4tet disk last night and bemoaned that they only did those 2 quartets. Sure were nice though.

I wonder if they play the Op. 17 and Op. 20 in the same relaxed way that they used in the Op. 9. Their Op. 9 was my first Op. 9 played on PI and I loved it, when I got it, specially because of the beautiful tone of those PI. After that, I purchased the same opus performed by the Festetics and it was a revelation; not just the instruments, but the interpretation, alive and full of verve. So, I will vividly be interested in your opinions, gentlemen.

Here a comparison (Op. 9) between the Festetics and the London Haydn Quartet that I posted some time ago:

http://www.divshare.com/flash/playlist?myId=7218363-0da


http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=52b854a


P.S.: The volume of both archives can be regulated.

[Sergeant Rock]

I wonder if they play the Op. 17 and Op. 20 in the same relaxed way that they used in the Op. 9. Their Op. 9 was my first Op. 9 played on PI and I loved it, when I got it, specially because of the beautiful tone of those PI. After that, I purchased the same opus performed by the Festetics and it was a revelation; not just the instruments, but the interpretation, alive and full of verve. So, I will vividly interested in your opinions, gentlemen.

I remember well that comparison. Thank you. It convinced me I had to have the London Haydn op.9. I couldn't believe how profoundly deep they made young Papa sound. I too had a revelation, not just the beauty of the instruments, but the interpretation 

Sarge

[Antoine Marchand]

I remember well that comparison. Thank you. It convinced me I had to have the London Haydn op.9. I couldn't believe how profoundly deep they made young Papa sound. I too had a revelation, not just the beauty of the instruments, but the interpretation 

Sarge

Sorry if my words sounded derogatory regarding the Haydn London Quartet, but that wasn't my intention at all. The reason to post those archives was precisely to allow a personal comparison. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Sorry if my words sounded derogatory regarding the Haydn London Quartet, but that wasn't my intention at all. The reason to post those archives was precisely to allow a personal comparison. 

And I appreciate that. I too am curious if The London Haydn maintain the same style in the op.20. Looking forward to comments from those in the know.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

O Gurn . . . so that there fragmentary incomplete final string quartet is both Op.77 № 3 and Op.103, is that the tale?

[Gurn Blanston]

O Gurn . . . so that there fragmentary incomplete final string quartet is both Op.77 № 3 and Op.103, is that the tale?

If it had been completed in a timely way, it would have been Op 77 #3. Since it was 4 years later when he finally gave up on it, it became Op 103. So yes, that is the sad tale.

"Gone forever is my strength,
old and weak am I..."

from Der Greis (The Old Man, one of his part-songs). Used by Haydn on his visitor's card.

[Karl Henning]

Well, this two-fer of Kuijken leading the symphonies nos. 88-92 is lovely, indeed.

And though I have only just started into the Quatuor Mosaïques box, I like it a great deal, too.  Which is no disloyalty to the Amadeus Quartet . . . the music works well in both manners.

[George]

Haydn
String Quartets
Pro Arte String Quartet
Testament

Just ordered this early Christmas present for myself.

[Mandryka]

Haydn
String Quartets
Pro Arte String Quartet
Testament

Just ordered this early Christmas present for myself.

That's good if it's got the Op 50s and Op 64/6

[Mandryka]

Has anyone heard Cuarteto Casals play Op 33s? I'm looking for a good Op 33 -- I'm not really happy with the ones I have. Apponyi is tight and exciting but too gruff and the intonation is about as enjoyable as a dentist's drill. They also underline and overstate the music too strongly for me, if you know what I mean. It's not subtle. Festetics sounds good and they bring out the ling line, but they're too laid back. Maybe the Lindsays is the best of the bunch that I have -- I need to listen again.

Anyway I'm hoping that Cuarteto Casals are as tight and intense  as Apponyi with a more congenial sound -- and more humour too. That's how they sound from these clips of a concert in Spain a couple of years ago, though maybe the slow movement of the Joke is a bit incoherent-- see what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/v/rkg_VNKo_8g  http://www.youtube.com/v/3DJd6Zt3gpE


Apponyi is too teutonic and grim for me really.

This interest in Op 33 started because I've been really enjoying Op 33/1. If you know of any really outstanding 33/1s let me know.

[jlaurson]

Has anyone heard Cuarteto Casals play Op 33s? I'm looking for a good Op 33 -- I'm not really happy with the ones I have. Apponyi is tight and exciting but too gruff and the intonation is about as enjoyable as a dentist's drill. They also underline and overstate the music too strongly for me, if you know what I mean. It's not subtle. Festetics sounds good and they bring out the ling line, but they're too laid back. Maybe the Lindsays is the best of the bunch that I have -- I need to listen again.

Anyway I'm hoping that Cuarteto Casals are as tight and intense  as Apponyi with a more congenial sound -- and more humour too. That's how they sound from these clips of a concert in Spain a couple of years ago, though maybe the slow movement of the Joke is a bit incoherent-- see what you think.

Apponyi is too teutonic and grim for me really.

This interest in Op 33 started because I've been really enjoying Op 33/1. If you know of any really outstanding 33/1s let me know.

I'm quite astonished at your impressions / reactions to these various performances. I can find no issue with the intonation of the Appónyi... (but can find issue on that account with The Lindsays (to some degree) and certainly with the Festetics... but would never call the latter 'laid back'. Certainly Casals isn't furious... I found those recordings to be less than I had hoped they'd be. http://www.weta.org/oldfmblog/?p=2259 Or maybe not... re-reading what I wrote about them, now. :-)

The Casals Quartet does the short'n'brash in a few places where it pleases them, but goes for extreme legato elsewhere. ...

in individual movements the Casals Quartet attempts to break speed records...

the Quatuor Casals, also with a great 33/1, attempts a new definition of HIP elements from a solidly 'modern traditional stance'. (It does get confusing with what, those modern old traditions and very modern traditional, original approaches—to the point where the terms blur to become completely meaningless.)...

The Casals kids take it abrasively, with very flexible tempi, dynamics, portamenti, altogether at a measured clip which means less a slow down for the second part. The sull'istessa corda played out with gusto and it's hard not to think that they might not have taken the Appónyi recording as a reference...

Movement-by-movement, for example, the Quatuor Casals is the most impressive: awesome technique, unafraid of extremes, full of individuality. But taken as a whole, their recording doesn't reveal that; in fact theirs comes in rather less exciting than the Buchberger, Mosaïques, and Appónyi recordings. ...

[Mandryka]

I'm quite astonished at your impressions / reactions to these various performances. I can find no issue with the intonation of the Appónyi... (but can find issue on that account with The Lindsays (to some degree) and certainly with the Festetics... but would never call the latter 'laid back'. Certainly Casals isn't furious... I found those recordings to be less than I had hoped they'd be. http://www.weta.org/oldfmblog/?p=2259 Or maybe not... re-reading what I wrote about them, now. :-)

Thanks for the review of the CC CD. Have you heard their Brahms?

You're right about the intonation of the Apponyi. Thanks for correcting me. I should have said timbre:

Apponyi is tight and exciting but too gruff and the intonation timbre is about as enjoyable as a dentist's drill.

The intonation of the Lindsays is often criticised negatively. I find their Op 33 interesting for its good humour amongst other things. I like their timbre.

If you listent to say Apponyi and Festetics in the final movement of 33/1 then you'll see straight away why I say that the latter are laid back.

I love the Festetics' sound -- esp the cello.

[George]

That's good if it's got the Op 50s and Op 64/6

It has one from Op. 50, the rest is in Volume 2:

Pro Arte Quartet. "Quartets, Vol. 1". Incl. Op. 20, Nos. 2 & 5; Op. 50, No. 3; Op. 64, Nos. 3-4; Op. 76, Nos. 3-4; Op. 54, Nos. 1-3; Op. 74, No. 3; Op. 77, No. 2; Op. 1, No. 1

Pro Arte Quartet. "Quartets, Vol. 2". Incl. Op. 1, No. 6; Op. 33, Nos. 2-3, 6; Op. 55, Nos. 1, 3; Op. 54, No. 1; Op. 50, No. 6; Op. 20, No. 4; Op. 64, No. 6; Op. 74, No. 2

[snyprrr]

Nice to see the Thread up!

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 22

1773
The year that everything changed!  Nicolaus had always been a man of nearly uncontrollable enthusiasms. And now he had developed one for opera. High opera. Italian opera. His little corner of the world, with its overwhelming pleasure palaces, now had some new things to amuse. Of course, that nice concert hall down the drive, and a full opera house, and now a marionette opera facility too. And for the next 15 years, Haydn, in addition to his other responsibilities, was also going to be a full-blown impresario. Literally so, not just in name. From hiring the singers to buying the libretti and scores, to commissioning the scenery painting. Then wearing his other hat as Music Director he wrote replacement arias whenever the available voice couldn't handle original tessitura. Then in his role as conductor of the band, he personally rehearsed the orchestra and conducted the performances.

And that was just for the opera. It is no wonder that his symphonic output in those years changed considerably. As one example from this year of 1773, the first two movements of his symphony Hob 50 are actually the overture to his music for a prelude to the marionette opera Philemon & Baucis called Der Götterat. It is believed that the 4th movement is also the finale of the play. It is a little drama about the gods on Olympus fighting over earth (as always). The opera itself premiered in September of 1773, so the prelude was the first in a long, long line of operatic productions for the Esterhäzy Opera House, all of them led by Haydn.

Well, he did have a bit of time for some keyboard sonatas anyway....

The music of 1773;

Hob 01a_01  L'Infedeltà Delusa: Sinfonia in C
Hob 01a_08 Philemon und Baucis: Overture in d  (both published separately from their operas)
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien


Hob 01_050 Symphony in C
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien
Hob 01_051 Symphony in Bb
   Tafelmusik / Bruno Weil
Hob 01_064 Symphony in A
   Apollo Ensemble / Hsu


Hob 12_13 Sonata in D for Baryton Solo
Hob 12_14 Sonata in D for Baryton Solo
   Esterhazy Ensemble


Hob 16_21 Sonata #36 in D for Keyboard
   Riko Fukuda*
Hob 16_22 Sonata #37 in E for Keyboard
   Ursula Dütschler*
Hob 16_23 Sonata #38 in F for Keyboard
   Hans Ludwig Hirsch
Hob 16_24 Sonata #39 in D for Keyboard
   Ronald Brautigam
Hob 16_25 Sonata #40 in Eb for Keyboard
   Yoshiko Kojima*
Hob 16_26 Sonata #41 in A for Keyboard
   Richard Burnett
Hob 16_33 Sonata #34 in D for Keyboard
   Bart van Oort*  [* all recordings from the same set]


Hob 22_05  Mass in C 'Missa Cellensis'
   Collegium musicum 90 / Richard Hickox


Hob 28_05 Opera "La Infedelta Delusa"
   Liszt Ferenc Chamber Orchestra, Budapest / Sandor


Hob 29a_01 Marionette Opera "Philemon und Baucis"
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien


Hob 29a_01a Der Götterrath: Sinfonia in C
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien


A nice recording is available now of the various overtures. Not all of them are the various opera overtures, there are several one movement orchestral pieces that don't appear, at least, to be the overtures to anything at all, they are just one movement orchestral pieces. And for those of you who don't care for opera anyway, this 2 disk set does give out the instrumental parts of all of them, plus some intermezzi from the oratorios as well. This would be the only collected works recording, AFAIK.

As always, there are more than a few excellent recordings of these symphonies, so I am just putting my own favorites out there, with a slant on mixing up the players for variety. As we move forward in time, that becomes easier and easier to do, since the later works have received so much more attention. I needn't mention that this goes against my personal principles, I suppose you all know that anyway.

Since we are in the middle of the long spread of the final book of baryton trios, and since Haydn was meeting new challenges that year, we took a veer away from them this time and just listen to these 2 lovely solo baryton sonatas. Just tiny fragments of larger originals, really, but a nice chance to hear some solo work on this rare instrument.

Nice to see a renewed interest in keyboard sonatas this year though. This set of 6 sonatas (Landon #36-41) were the only ones dedicated to a male person (the Prince, of course). They are written in a popular style of the time, to paraphrase C.P.E. Bach, they are for Liebhaber, not for Kenner! I can safely say that you will enjoy them, they are very pleasant pieces. And we also have #33 in there, this was a singleton (a rarity in those times) that is also a nice listen.

So finally we get to the part of Haydn's career where big vocal works are the rule rather than the exception. Operas (Italian and Marionette (which were German Singspiels usually)), masses, oratorios; he would use the training he got in Vienna in the 1750's from Metastasio and Porpora to move ahead now down a new road.

The Mass in C in Honorem BVM 'Missa Cellensis' was long thought to date from 1766, but it has more recently been recognized from this 1773 period. It is in 18 parts lasting over 65 minutes! If you want to hear a true 'High Mass', then this is the one for you. It is his longest by far. I think Hickox & Co. do a fine job of it, although there are other very good versions available.

First Italian opera since 'Le pescatrici', and the first for the new opera house, L'infedeltà delusa (Deceit outwitted)  is a comedy (burlesca) from a score by Coltellini. It was first performed in July for the nameday of the Prince's mother, and again in September during a famous visit by Empress Maria Teresa, after which she declared that if she wanted to see an opera, Esterháza was the place to go. While she was there, she also saw the marionette opera Philemon & Baucis and was so impressed that a couple of years later she borrowed the entire kit and caboodle from the Prince and treated herself in Vienna.

Please feel free to discuss. I certainly would appreciate some feedback on these essays to help to make them useful for you.



----------------
Now playing:

  Musicians of the Louvre, Grenoble \ Minkowski - Hob 01_102 Symphony in Bb 3rd mvmt - Menuet: Allegro - Trio

[kishnevi]

This question just occurred to me--did Haydn write anything overtly linked to the Christmas season?

It would be nice to expand my usual reliance on Bach, Handel and Palestrina (and, this year, a new addition, Tallis's Puer natus est Mass).

[Gurn Blanston]

This question just occurred to me--did Haydn write anything overtly linked to the Christmas season?

It would be nice to expand my usual reliance on Bach, Handel and Palestrina (and, this year, a new addition, Tallis's Puer natus est Mass).

  If so, it will be new to me. Running through all lists and coming up blank. He was big on Easter though.



----------------
Now playing: (I call them the No Name Trio)

  Klinckerfuss (Fortepiano) Lautenbacher (Violin) Ostertag (Cello) - Hob 15_28 Trio #44 in E for Keyboard & Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato