Author Topic: How do you hear music?  (Read 6386 times)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2017, 12:00:34 AM »
The people who can hear meaning in abstruse music are the ones who like it, and have a natural visceral propensity; the ones who say that they "reject" it are more often than not unable to hear it, based mainly on an inherently lower visceral propensity. These people are "crippled" from the start.

Nonsense.

Quote
What I'm saying is that "your ear" (visceral) is the stimulus that "draws you in" to more difficult music. This is a very natural ability, and some folks have it, while others don't.
[/quote]

Nonsense on stilts.

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2017, 01:12:20 AM »
And shaky stilts, at that.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline jessop

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2017, 02:07:36 AM »
I find myself agreeing more and more with Florestan these days....am I growing wiser, or more insane?

Offline opaquer

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2017, 02:20:15 AM »
Eh, this is all becoming to convoluted for me...  :-\ I might just take a shower   $:)

Offline some guy

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2017, 06:29:10 AM »
I find myself agreeing more and more with Florestan these days....am I growing wiser, or more insane?
Can't it be both?

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #105 on: May 17, 2017, 06:56:29 AM »
Ideally, it ought to be both, perhaps.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2017, 07:07:38 AM »
~ Honk If You Love Noise ~
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Online North Star

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #107 on: May 17, 2017, 11:24:25 AM »
But if you love it, is it noise?
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Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #108 on: May 17, 2017, 09:47:14 PM »
But if you love it, is it noise?

 0:) Precisely!0:)

Thanks :-)
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Offline opaquer

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #109 on: May 17, 2017, 09:48:50 PM »

Offline eljr

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2017, 12:47:56 PM »
But if you love it, is it noise?

well, in that case, it's lovely noise! :P
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2017, 10:58:10 AM »
One of the executives within BBC radio has claimed this week that men predominately listen to the technicalities of music, whilst women have a predominantly emotional response.

I don't relate to this generalisation, but wondered if it holds any truth for the people here.

Mike

Doesn't hold any truth for me. First and foremost I listen aesthetically, not technically or emotionally.

Offline Florestan

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2017, 11:10:58 AM »
First and foremost I listen aesthetically

What does "listening aesthetically" mean?
Les sanglots longs
Des violons
De l'automne
Blessent mon coeur
D'une langueur
Monotone.

Offline jessop

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2017, 03:27:57 PM »
Listening 'aesthetically' or 'technically' or 'emotionally' are equally as meaningless to me. I enjoy the aesthetics of various pieces of music, as determined by the tools and techniques a composer/musician employs, because they evoke an emotional response in me.

Offline opaquer

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2017, 03:47:35 PM »
To be blunt here, there is only one way you can possibly listen to music. No, not with your nose. No, not with your toes. No, not with your elbows.

With your ears, fullstop!


BUT, there are hundreds of situations you can listen to music, that is a different matter.

There could be aspects of music that take your fancy but that is really picking apart things in a rather mundane way. "Emotion" sure, but how does this differ? you know? it's just not the way music is really perceived.

I suppose you could say that you are a more emotional type of person (as in more emotionally sensitive or receptive), which would relate to the way you interpret on a personal level but you are still listening with your ears  ;) not your nose  :laugh:

Online North Star

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2017, 02:22:50 AM »
To be blunt here, there is only one way you can possibly listen to music. No, not with your nose. No, not with your toes. No, not with your elbows.

With your ears, fullstop!


BUT, there are hundreds of situations you can listen to music, that is a different matter.

There could be aspects of music that take your fancy but that is really picking apart things in a rather mundane way. "Emotion" sure, but how does this differ? you know? it's just not the way music is really perceived.

I suppose you could say that you are a more emotional type of person (as in more emotionally sensitive or receptive), which would relate to the way you interpret on a personal level but you are still listening with your ears  ;) not your nose  :laugh:
With loud bass frequencies involved, your whole body can be a part of the listening experience, though. The ears are really just picking up vibrations, and the actual listening is what the brain does with the information, so it could be said that we don't listen with our ears but with our brains.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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How do you hear music?
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2017, 02:26:14 AM »
The ears are only the entryway.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

millionrainbows

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2017, 09:09:55 AM »
"The ears are the only entryway." ---Stravinsky's duck

Yes, it's a given that we all hear 'harmonically,' because pitched sound 'models' the harmonic series in various ways; not literally, but as a 'model' of a fundamental with its subservient harmonic components.

The Berg Violin Concerto is an example, perhaps not ideal, of how a composer can convincingly create 'harmonic meaning' in music which is not actually tonal, or based on a tonal hierarchy. Some listeners mistake this artistry, as well as much of Schoenberg's later atonal works, as being 'tonal' because the composers have so convincingly manipulated the harmonic sequences and progressions, which make sense to our ears, but are not "tonal" at all, as in being referenced to a central tone.

But the harmonic meanings are comparative and relative to each other, in what preceded and followed, not in reference to a central tonic, as in tonality.

Naysayers who reject Schoenberg obviously do not have good enough ears to hear the harmonic logic. Those who do understand it often mistakenly call this 'tonality.'

So, yes, "the ear is the way in," but what about after that?

I'm afraid that the majority of listeners, even certain astute and educated ones with good ears, are groping in the dark when they try to interpret such sounds in Schoenberg as 'tonality' of sorts. Only the Second Viennese ties to tradition are what make this music palatable or meaningful to them, and only because the music resembles tonality, in its ebb and flow of tensions, do they 'gain admission' into the rarified territory of chromaticism and atonality, without fully grasping what they are hearing.

When faced with more difficult fare, such as late Webern or Elliott Carter, they fail, and call this 'tonality.'

Sure, we all have ears, and we can all swallow, and we can all reproduce; but beyond these 'automatic' talents, the 'brain' part of 'ear/brain' is skewed towards the sensual, the visceral, the emotional, and the easy spasm of knee-jerk attraction. Music is more than that.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:18:41 AM by millionrainbows »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2017, 09:22:06 AM »
When faced with more difficult fare, such as late Webern or Elliott Carter, they fail.

This just doesn't ring true for my own experience with the Webern cantatas or Carter Quartet 4. I'm listening right now to Babbitt 5 and it sounds stuffed with tunes and harmonically sounds natural and logical.

Basically I've lost the sense of disorientation I used to have with this sort of music, it now feels comfortable and relaxing.

(I listened earlier today to Reich's double sextet and that felt disorienting - like what's the point of this?)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

millionrainbows

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Re: How do you hear music?
« Reply #119 on: July 13, 2017, 09:32:11 AM »
This just doesn't ring true for my own experience with the Webern cantatas or Carter Quartet 4. I'm listening right now to Babbitt 5 and it sounds stuffed with tunes and harmonically sounds natural and logical.

Basically I've lost the sense of disorientation I used to have with this sort of music, it now feels comfortable and relaxing.

(I listened earlier today to Reich's double sextet and that felt disorienting - like what's the point of this?)

That's all good, Mandryka. If you can approach this music on its own terms, you are obviously an astute listener.

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