Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 270072 times)

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Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2300 on: December 30, 2016, 06:19:55 AM »
. There was one album in the series that sounded like music from the 25th century or something, due to the combination of instrument and tuning, but I now can't remember which one. Maybe the Neumeister Chorales.

That sounds fun, if you remember which one let me know. (I'm listening to 1090 now and it sounds OK.)

The Art of Fugue really goes into some sort of alpha-state after about half a dozen or so fugues and he keeps it going for quite a while.

But maybe the most extraordinary thing he does is the ricercar from Opfer. Bach Motörhead style.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 06:21:32 AM by Mandryka »
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Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2301 on: December 30, 2016, 09:09:14 AM »
:o

OMG, somebody hacked the one and only Mandryka's account!

;D

I do know about these mysteries, too, btw.
Sometimes first favourites get overtaken by others.
I was wrong this morning, you were right. I just listened to the Orgelbuchlein. I like the registrations on the Metzler. The voicing is lively.  I like the strong sense of movement forward, there's a feeling of  spontaneous and sincere  expression of deep things,  it made me think of Jens Christensen's Art of Fugue. What I said in 2013 about "celebrating God" or something doesn't really do it justice: it's spookier than that.  The sound quality is excellent given the period of the recording.

To some extent I'm such a sucker for Orgelbuchlein that I could be exaggerating, in fact I'm sure I am exaggerating.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 09:14:50 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2302 on: December 31, 2016, 03:02:16 AM »
I was wrong this morning, you were right. I just listened to the Orgelbuchlein. I like the registrations on the Metzler. The voicing is lively.  I like the strong sense of movement forward, there's a feeling of  spontaneous and sincere  expression of deep things,  it made me think of Jens Christensen's Art of Fugue. What I said in 2013 about "celebrating God" or something doesn't really do it justice: it's spookier than that.  The sound quality is excellent given the period of the recording.

To some extent I'm such a sucker for Orgelbuchlein that I could be exaggerating, in fact I'm sure I am exaggerating.

And my 'problem' is, that I do not listen enough to the Orgelbüchlein... I always seem to go for the 'Organ Mass', the Leipziger Choräle and Die Kunst der Fuge.
Added to another 'problem': after some five years of monomaniac organ listening (mainly Bach), I have turned to other instruments the last couple of years, and to other ensembles and composers, too.
It's almost a suprise for myself that I ended up again in this everlasting thread.

Anway, here's wishing you a happy new year with all the Büchleins, Heillers, Christensens and all other great music and its performers!
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Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2303 on: December 31, 2016, 07:28:14 AM »
I know of such mysteries, they have happened to me too... selling cds isn't the core business for most of those societies.
My advice is: send them an e-mail, refer to your order and ordering number, ask them how you have to pay for it when living abroad, and ask them how long it takes them to send the discs, et cetera and et al, of course everything in a polite manner. ;)
Oh, and send the mail cc to: marieke.buiten@kpnmail.nl.
I'm not sure, but I think she's the librarian/documentalist of the Stichting Henrick Baderorgel.

Good luck!

It's very annoying because I see from their website that they've reduced the price of the CDs in a promotion, so they clearly have them and someone there wants to sell them. Anyway,  I've done what you suggested.

The invoice just says "Betaalwijze: Betalen via factuur" and "Wij danken u voor uw bestelling. Indien u vragen heeft, kunt u natuurlijk te allen tijde contact met ons opnemen". but no payment details, no calculation of the delivery costs,  not even an address to contact them. WTF are they expecting me to do?  If you can see a phone number for them (I can't) let me know and I'll try that way.

Added: Found the CDs here, and they did take my money, so things are looking a bit more hopeful.

https://www.boeijengamusic.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 07:38:46 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2304 on: December 31, 2016, 11:29:36 AM »
It's very annoying because I see from their website that they've reduced the price of the CDs in a promotion, so they clearly have them and someone there wants to sell them. Anyway,  I've done what you suggested.

The invoice just says "Betaalwijze: Betalen via factuur" and "Wij danken u voor uw bestelling. Indien u vragen heeft, kunt u natuurlijk te allen tijde contact met ons opnemen". but no payment details, no calculation of the delivery costs,  not even an address to contact them. WTF are they expecting me to do?  If you can see a phone number for them (I can't) let me know and I'll try that way.

Added: Found the CDs here, and they did take my money, so things are looking a bit more hopeful.

https://www.boeijengamusic.com

Ah, Boeijenga, in Leeuwarden (capital of Fryslân)... well, there's a chance you'll be luckier with them.
Those Frisians are probably more used to 'international affairs'.

The invoice means btw: Payment via payment bill. Thanks for your order. For questions, please send us a mail.
Well, at least you did the latter. But yes, I agree with you: first action should be taken by them.

Anyway, I sent you a PM (and Premont, too), without a true solution, but maybe some useful info.

Fingers crossed.
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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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    anything from Monteverdi to Widmann and well beyond in either direction and everything in the middle!

Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2306 on: January 10, 2017, 04:16:47 AM »
I now have Bert Matter's CU 3 and Leipzig Chorales. Initial impression of the Leipzig chorales makes me think that this is a very major achievement.
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2307 on: January 15, 2017, 08:49:27 AM »
Thought this was a nice clip to post in this thread: Bernard Winsemius playing Bach's Trio Sonata in C minor BWV 526, on the Christian Müller organ, Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam, NL.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Kw_BdtL8Hw0" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Kw_BdtL8Hw0</a>

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Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2308 on: February 22, 2017, 01:18:15 PM »
I had a very nice experience today listening to Bernard Winsemius playing BWV 547, and then Marie Claire Alain (second set), and I just wondered if anyone can remember any other really outstanding recordings.  The Fugue is fabulous.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 01:26:34 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2309 on: February 22, 2017, 03:53:53 PM »
I had a very nice experience today listening to Bernard Winsemius playing BWV 547, and then Marie Claire Alain (second set), and I just wondered if anyone can remember any other really outstanding recordings.  The Fugue is fabulous.

I always enjoyed Walcha's jubilant interpretations, the Alkmaar version the most.
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2310 on: February 22, 2017, 05:52:32 PM »
I had a very nice experience today listening to Bernard Winsemius playing BWV 547, and then Marie Claire Alain (second set), and I just wondered if anyone can remember any other really outstanding recordings.  The Fugue is fabulous.

One of the grandest and most life-affirming P&F's of Bach!

My favorite is Koopman on Novalis - slightly fast, but with a wonderful reedy plenum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeYbWye_2hk

If you're talking about Winsemius playing on his "Advent and Christmas" disc, it's a very fine interpretation! I actually his fugue more than I do Koopman's.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 05:54:34 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2311 on: February 23, 2017, 08:20:19 AM »
One of the . . . most life-affirming P&F's of Bach!


I'm not sure Rubsam (Naxos) agrees about this. It is extraordinary, what he does.


If you're talking about Winsemius playing on his "Advent and Christmas" disc, it's a very fine interpretation! I actually his fugue more than I do Koopman's.

Yes that one.

One of the grandest . . . P&F's of Bach!


I'm not sure that Koopman (Novalis) would agree. It is extraordinary, what he does.




. . . Koopman . . .  with a wonderful reedy plenum:



I agree about this



 - slightly fast,


I see you are a master of understatement.


It made me think of Paul Jacobs's performance of Beethoven op 10 /3. The conception of Beethoven as about power and playfulness feels OK for what we know about the man and his ideas, though I'm hardly a Beethoven connoisseur. For Bach I'm less sure.

There's a large section of the fugue which is often very dissonant, Koopman (Novalis) seems to smooth out some of these asperities and that's a shame I think.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 08:36:08 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2312 on: February 23, 2017, 09:23:53 AM »
If I ever get married the Prelude from BWV 547 would be included in the music in church. (In a pinch the D major Prelude from WTC II played on organ would do as well. No Mendelssohn march, please!)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Online North Star

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2313 on: February 23, 2017, 02:44:59 PM »
I guess you aren't familiar with the wedding marches by Toivo Kuula (not related) or Erkki Melartin8)

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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2314 on: February 23, 2017, 05:37:08 PM »
I see you are a master of understatement.

Nah, just a speed freak. I've liked Koopman fast organ playing in almost all cases, especially in large toccatas or in the Leipzig chorales (which are great fun to listen to). I think the only ones I've disliked are his Bruhns and Buxtehude magnificat primi toni (Like Piet Kee the most).

But again, I do like slower performances so I can hear more nuances. But some, like Walcha, sound too dry and neo-baroquey to me.

I listened to Rubsam, and while the prelude was a bit too heavy for my taste, the fugue was nice and grand, and indeed highlighted the dissonances well. But not earth-shattering.
What's the organ used in the recording? Naxos' website is rather hard to navigate. It's definitely not the rococo-southern-german instrument on the cover - it sounds like a Northern or possibly central German instrument. From the mixtures, is it Groningen?

Edit: it is the Martinikerk Groningen.

Another edit: Found a version I really loved, played by Dirksen. I think I enjoy it more than Winsemius who plays on the same organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMN_O932v8Y

Edit #3: I found a description of this piece on Contrembombarde, which I sometimes visit. Quite interesting:

Quote from: Agnus_Dei
Dr. Albert Schweitzer saw in the prelude the vision of a "crowd moving along in solemn jubilation; Harvey Grace, and others have pointed out the thematic resemblances to the opening chorus of the Epiphany Cantata, "Sie werden aus Saba alle kommen," but that cantata was composed some 20 years earlier. E. Power Biggs thought the "carillon like" pedal part in the prelude "radiated the festive lights of Christmas," while Anton Heiller felt that this piece was about the Resurrection and Ascension.

The fugue is outstanding for the terseness of its distinctive subject, the tautness with which the fabric is consistently woven, the dramatic force of the long-delayed pedal entrance, and the well-nigh superhuman strength of the torrential flow of sheer energy which is guided, and, at the end, curbed, and all while sitting upon a long and triumphant tonic pedal. (some of these notes are from the writings of R. D. Darrell.)

Edit #4 (Oh dear):
I'm listening to Koopman's Buxtehude Magnificat I mentioned earlier- I'm enjoying the speed, but sometimes I wonder if Koopman uses speed as a "mask" to hide under when he doesn't have any other insights to offer about a piece - after all, speeding a piece up is a surefire way to make it sound "bold and refreshing."

I think the true masters are the ones who are able to slow things down and make it sound good. Like Leonhardt, Rannou's Goldberg, Glenn Gould (Okay, he sped up everything else but some of his "slow" ones are pure genius), or more recently Wim Winters and his Partitas.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 06:11:39 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2315 on: February 23, 2017, 05:44:33 PM »
Slightly off-topic: speaking of speed freaks, how do you think of Lena Jacobsen?

She and her ideas about "Musical Rhetoric" are just crazy, and her  playing can either sound like that of a 10-year old who has't entirely mastered scales/has some sort of palsy/has legs so short that he can't reach the pedals on time, or at other times just be utterly brilliant - I have no idea how I should think of her and her playing.

Online Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2316 on: February 23, 2017, 09:46:35 PM »
Slightly off-topic: speaking of speed freaks, how do you think of Lena Jacobsen?

She and her ideas about "Musical Rhetoric" are just crazy, and her  playing can either sound like that of a 10-year old who has't entirely mastered scales/has some sort of palsy/has legs so short that he can't reach the pedals on time, or at other times just be utterly brilliant - I have no idea how I should think of her and her playing.

What exactly are her ideas about rhetoric? I mean she's published on this but I've never read the paper.
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2317 on: February 23, 2017, 10:53:01 PM »
I once listened to BWV 547 played by Wolfgang Zerer full-force, being the last piece of a concert in Uithuizermeeden, NL (Hinsz organ), a small village church with almost no reverb. It was great, it was awesome, and afterwards I thanked Zerer for the great concert... but I walked out with a vicious headache. ;D
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2318 on: February 23, 2017, 11:23:14 PM »
What exactly are her ideas about rhetoric? I mean she's published on this but I've never read the paper.

Jacobsen, Lena. “Musical Rhetoric in Buxtehude’s Free Organ Works.” Organ Year Book
XIII (1982): 60–79.

This famous (notorious) article is (almost?) impossible to find.
Organist and scholar Leon W. Couch III has written some articles about baroque rhetorics in which Jacobsen ideas are mentioned now and then.

Here's his website:
http://scholarship.profcouch.us/

Who knows, Mandryka, maybe he's even willing to send you a copy of the Jacobsen article...
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2319 on: February 24, 2017, 11:48:38 PM »
Stray thought.

If Koopman was a a painter, he would be a mannerist.


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