Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 349821 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2540 on: November 05, 2017, 07:49:34 AM »
I recognize the 'symphonical' thing. And yes, the Kantens organ is a beauty.

I didn't want to pick on Zerer, either, btw. I've always enjoyed his concerts, though sometimes, afterwards, I had the feeling that I missed something. Not easy to describe though. Spirituality maybe? But that's such a vague notion. Let's just say, that, here on some Groningen organs, I felt more spiritually enlifted whilst and after listening to organists like Harald Vogel, Vincent van Laar, Peter Westerbrink and 'even' Ton Koopman (in chorale-based works, either from Bach or any 17th century composer, fast Ton can be wonderful).

Did I ever let you have the concert recording of Zerer at Uttum? If not, let me know, I think it's outstanding.

Where you have this symphonic approach to registration in a piece like the Scheidt, lots of short variations on a hymn tune, each part with its own characterful colour fingerprint, it can't be easy to make the music flow naturally from one part to the next, like a long and tranquil stream.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 07:54:16 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2541 on: November 05, 2017, 11:00:35 AM »
I think the Zerer recording in Kantens one of the best he ever recorded. I do not miss anything in his playing style, spiritually or on a technical level. I did my bit on this organ in Kantens, and it's a very difficult instrument to play on, and of course I do not get near to what Zerer delivers. So considering this, I think any criticism is a personal one, and not necessarily true for the rest of us.

Secondly the Hanssler box is a very viable option to acquire, first of all for the historic organs, and secondly for the quality of the organists.
I started with the first two discs of this set, and although I am not wholly impressed by Kay Johannsen, he nevertheless gets enough authority out of Bach's works to thoroughly enjoying them.
Plus the fact that it can be had for very little money.

Yes, any criticism is personal. I would not dare to claim otherwise.

And, in this particular case, I agree with your positive opinion about the Hänssler box. I like it, too, and I like Johanssen very much.
My criticism towards Martin Lücker is... a personal one. ;)
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2542 on: December 03, 2017, 10:46:13 AM »
I'm starting to get interested in the Neumeister Chorales and so I thought I'd post here just to ask if anyone has explored them on record, and if there's anything that stands out. So far I find myself enjoying Foccroulle and Beekman most - very different approaches.

I'm unclear about what the Arnstädter preludes are, and whether there are any outstanding recordings of them, Werner Jacob was the first to record them, and his LP has been transferred to CD but it's not for sale in the UK - I'd have  to bring it in from The States. I'll do it if someone says they remember it was one of his successful recordings

(I've always had a penchant for Orgelbuchlein, so I guess it's not surprising that I'm enjoying these Chorales too. )
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:48:33 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2543 on: December 03, 2017, 12:34:46 PM »
I'm unclear about what the Arnstädter preludes are, and whether there are any outstanding recordings of them, Werner Jacob was the first to record them, and his LP has been transferred to CD but it's not for sale in the UK - I'd have  to bring it in from The States. I'll do it if someone says they remember it was one of his successful recordings

According to Peter Williams the concept Arnstädter Gemeindechoräle was first used by Herman Keller in 1948, and includes the chorales BWV 715, 722, 726, 729, 732 and 738. They are not handed down as a specific group, They are characterized by bold harmonisations of the choral tunes with interspersed running scales and ornamentation. They were thought to be meant as accompaniment to the congregational singing, but their precise dating is uncertain. For practical reasons they are today included in the group "miscellaneous chorales" from BWV 690 and on. Most of the so called complete Bach organ sets include them. Walcha and AFAIK Heiller did not include them in their "integrals" from the early 1950es. I think Walter Kraft was the first to include them in an integral. As far as I remember Jacob's recordings of these does not stand particularly out, but it is a long time since I heard them, 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 12:50:47 PM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2544 on: March 11, 2018, 07:22:20 AM »


I think this is an interesting recording, both from the point of the view of the monumental performances, and from the point of view of the monumental organs.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 07:24:21 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Forever Electoral College

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2545 on: March 11, 2018, 07:41:59 AM »
Somebody posted a bunch of old recordings with Silbermann on Youtube. Any info or analysis? Thank you.

https://youtu.be/IG96XVLSH9Q

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2546 on: March 11, 2018, 09:29:33 AM »


I think this is an interesting recording, both from the point of the view of the monumental performances, and from the point of view of the monumental organs.

What do you mean "monumental performances"? This is chamber music transcribed for organ.

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2547 on: March 11, 2018, 09:33:55 AM »
I thought they were organ sonatas sometimes transcribed for chamber ensembles.

What I mean is, they're weighty, with depth and profundity.

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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2548 on: March 11, 2018, 09:41:06 AM »
I thought they were organ sonatas sometimes transcribed for chamber ensembles.

Most of them probably originated as triosonatas for chamber ensemble.

Quote from: Mandryka
What I mean is, they're weighty, with depth and profundity.

You make me think of organists of the past, who played these works very slow and with heavy registrations.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2549 on: March 11, 2018, 09:53:50 AM »
Somebody posted a bunch of old recordings with Silbermann on Youtube. Any info or analysis? Thank you.

https://youtu.be/IG96XVLSH9Q

Taken from this set:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelwerke-auf-Silbermann-Orgeln-Otto/dp/B000TGF1G8/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1520790255&sr=1-2&keywords=bach+k%C3%B6bler

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Silbermann-Organ-2.htm

Well, a nice set, interpretations (by Eastern Germany's at that time leading organists) rather conservative but none-the-less attractive. The organs were at the time of recording not yet properly restored, but still much of the Gottfried Silbermann character shines through.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2550 on: March 11, 2018, 10:31:24 AM »


You make me think of organists of the past, who played these works very slow and with heavy registrations.

Like Rubsam for Naxos!
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2551 on: March 11, 2018, 11:05:42 AM »
Like Rubsam for Naxos!

 :)

I do not think this applies to his recording of the trio sonatas but to some other things like the passacaglia and the Sei gegrüsset variations. Both these works are organ compositions of the weighty kind.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 11:12:31 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline Forever Electoral College

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2552 on: March 11, 2018, 11:09:40 AM »
Thanks a lot!
Taken from this set:

https://www.amazon.de/Orgelwerke-auf-Silbermann-Orgeln-Otto/dp/B000TGF1G8/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1520790255&sr=1-2&keywords=bach+k%C3%B6bler

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Silbermann-Organ-2.htm

Well, a nice set, interpretations (by Eastern Germany's at that time leading organists) rather conservative but none-the-less attractive. The organs were at the time of recording not yet properly restored, but still much of the Gottfried Silbermann character shines through.

Offline Forever Electoral College

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2553 on: March 11, 2018, 11:46:56 AM »
Talking about slow playing, I find this rendition too slow. Good tone though.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 11:49:35 AM by Forever Electoral College »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2554 on: March 11, 2018, 12:04:22 PM »
Talking about slow playing, I find this rendition too slow. Good tone though.

Agree, it is on the slow side, and the fast movements of the trio sonata (BWV 527) ar a bit heavy. But the CD has other qualities like very informed playing and a marvelous sounding organ.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2555 on: March 11, 2018, 01:48:42 PM »
I'll tell you something I've been enjoying recently, Knud Vad play the G minor fantasie , BWV 542. Very dramatic climax.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 01:54:47 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Forever Electoral College

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2556 on: March 14, 2018, 05:54:11 PM »
Quinney's vol.4 was released a few months ago, and I checked it on Youtube. Sounds solid, if safe and risk-averse. I will buy the disc soon.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqrjYSu7dP2QofgL4TveJ2VSrwV5sfQIP

Offline Forever Electoral College

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2557 on: March 14, 2018, 05:57:37 PM »
Stella is bright and vivacious.

Offline Gorio1968

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2558 on: March 15, 2018, 12:42:00 AM »
I already own Helmut Walcha, Wolfgang Rubsam and Massaki Suzuki recordings, all are just 2 CD collections. I don't really want to wade through 128 pages of discussion (yes I am lazy) but am interested in adding maybe a complete set and thought it wise to solicit advice here. Thanks for any help.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #2559 on: March 15, 2018, 01:35:03 AM »
I already own Helmut Walcha, Wolfgang Rubsam and Massaki Suzuki recordings, all are just 2 CD collections. I don't really want to wade through 128 pages of discussion (yes I am lazy) but am interested in adding maybe a complete set and thought it wise to solicit advice here. Thanks for any help.

Extremely wise.  ;D

Here's a starting point to give you an idea of what's out there:

A Survey of Bach Organ Cycles
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/09/a-survey-of-bach-organ-cycles.html


Esp. if your Ruebsam is a Naxos recording, you have very disparate takes on Bach so far, which I think is a good thing. Sort of readies the ears and keeps them open-minded.

To these recordings, I would recommend you add this 3-CD set with Karl Richter. It's beginning to show its age (not more or even as much as Walcha, though), and I think it can very nearly be agreed to as being essential.

A first set should be reasonably easy to get, somewhat affordable, and perhaps not too kinky (G*****u). And, I suppose, it needn't necessarily be hyper-complete (as Weinberger & Stockmeier are).
What you haven't got on your list, yet, is a set on historical/Silbermann instruments. This suggests that Marie-Claire Alain III Warner may be a good start.

I also think that Marie-Claire Alain II would be a great first set; ditto Ton Koopman... all of which I find pleasing and enjoyable to a high degree and which I think many Bach-lovers could also agree on as being suitable. (Koopman might polarize a little, though I've never quite understood why.) I'm also a fan of André Isoir, but am not sure I'd recommend him over these others as a first set.