Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 384126 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Antoine Marchand

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2009, 05:03:50 PM »
I agree completely with Premont.

Both sets are worth of attention, but the second one is probably preferable (and cheaper at the moment).

The silvery picture is just an image of the box where all the 14 cds were collected, when you bought the complete package of the third set.

Offline Coopmv

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11738
  • Mein Freund ist mein
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #121 on: February 17, 2009, 08:14:37 PM »
This is the new release of the second set:
 

The AoF does not belong to any of the series as such. She recorded the work twice (the first was recorded upon the Marcussen organ, Sct. Laurents Kerk Rotterdam (note: not Alkmaar). The picture displays the second recording. The first has - to my knowledge - never beem released on CD.
 

Ths is the first release of the third set:


These are the the ones I own. I do not know the other pictures, - but the silvery picture (first in the second row) depicts the Müller organ in Haarlem, and must be the third set.


The first integral (from 1959 - ca 1964 on exclusively Danish organs) was - to my knowledge - never released on CD. I know it only from LPs and do not own it. It is not that innovative, and I never understood, why it caused a stir when it was released. Maybe the argument was the Danish organs (mostly Marcussen and Frobenius organs).


From my point of view the second set is preferable for sheer musical reasons. It is played upon good neo-baroque organs (Marcussen, Metzler et.c.) and it is a lively and expressive account, whereas the third set - played upon well restored baroque organs - makes a more calm, but also more "grandiose"  impression. I have never made a direct comparison, but it feels like the tempi are a bit slower, and the period instruments are more impressive, whether you want it or not. Ideally you should have both sets.



I will probably get the third set since I already have most of the singles that make up the second set.  These sets are now released under WarnerMusic anyway. 

jlaurson

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2009, 02:38:38 AM »
Re: MCAlain Sets:

Hmmm, what a pickle. I like neo-baroque organs... but I also like a bit of the grandiose.  ::)

I suppose it's easy since I have neither set: Start with the inexpensive one and wait until Warner re-issues the 3rd set and sends it to me.

Has anyone got the SACD set with Knud Vad? I don't particularly like the non-conformist, shelf-unfriendly format (fancy though it is), but if it has great merits...



p.s. i just realize that JPC sells "its" Weinberger Bach Organ Works set for a paltry 49 Euros (compared to something rather ridiculous at Amazon). That's a set I respect very much. And of course it's complete-complete-complete... moreso than Stockmeier who was already pretty completist.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 07:08:57 AM by jlaurson »

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7145
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2009, 07:10:19 AM »
About the Knud Vad Bach organ integral:

The entire set is played upon the Marcussen organ in Sorø Klosterkirke, Denmark, where Vad has been resident organist, as long as I can remember. The organ was constructed (reconstructed) by Poul  Gerhard Andersen in 1942 on the basis of surviving notes about the registration and pipe-scaling of the former monastery church organ. Nobody knows, if it sounds like the old baroque organ, but it has certainly got a lot of character. and it is often used for recordings (of Bach and Buxtehude in particular).

Knud Vad´s integral is a live recording. Unfortunately there are a few unavoidable wrong notes and lapses of mind, but given the magnitude of the task, they are relative few and not essentially disturbing. The recorded sound is very good, maybe with the small reservation, that rather close miking - or maybe a combination of close and more distant miking, makes the reeds, especially the 16´ Fagot in the pedal, sound a tad more rattling than it sounds in the real life. In this respect the recordings by Lionel Rogg (part of his third Bach integral was recorded there) and Simon Preston (part of his Bach integral) sound more natural.

Knud Vad is a pupil of Anton Heiller and contemporary with Wolfgang Stockmeier and Peter Hurford, and his interpretation is - like theirs - marked by the transition period from "preauthentic" to "authentic" style, which is to say, that his style is not completely up to the informed style we are used to to day. He has f.ex.got an inclination for legato touch, and there are some unnecessary changes of registration first and foremost in the choral free works. But generally his registrations are clear and efficient, and often, in the chorales in particular, very colourful and neo-baroque. His rhythm is flexible within reasonable limits with a firm and assured basic pulse.

In our actual commercial situation, having access to rather many outstanding recordings of Bach´s organ works, I would not reccommend Vad as a first choice. Not even a second, but still he is worth knowing, and the cost is affordable. For organ enthusiasts on the other hand the set is almost a must have, as it represents an outstanding portrait of this important organ.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 07:12:32 AM by premont »
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

jlaurson

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2009, 08:34:04 AM »
About the Knud Vad Bach organ integral:

The entire set is played upon the Marcussen organ ...  it represents an outstanding portrait of this important organ.

That was VERY helpful. Many thanks. Although I think in the present situation it is our duty to buy as much Bach as possible to jump-start the economy again.

While I am at it: Which of the cycles you have would you consider worth listening all-through?
Not the silly listing of "the best" ... but which ones are in one way or another so special that you'd like to see others having heard them?

Maybe along those lines (just an example):
If someone has not got Walcha (I or II), would you say that's more 'pressing' than MCAlain (II)?

Antoine Marchand

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2009, 08:59:38 AM »
... Although I think in the present situation it is our duty to buy as much Bach as possible to jump-start the economy again.

Well, that sounds logical for me  ;D.

… it would be interesting to have some impression about Herrick.

I thought that his set was rather popular here, but apparently it isn’t.

I am enjoying his work (not problem with registrations or tempi), especially the gorgeous sound of those Metzler organs in Switzerland.

Bulldog

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2009, 09:25:30 AM »

… it would be interesting to have some impression about Herrick.

I thought that his set was rather popular here, but apparently it isn’t.

I am enjoying his work (not problem with registrations or tempi), especially the gorgeous sound of those Metzler organs in Switzerland.


I very much enjoy Herrick's Bach.  True, Herrick isn't the man to turn to if you want your Bach sharply phrased with plenty of bite.  But he has a very attractive legato and great rhythmic flow.  I find him spiritually uplifting.

Offline Coopmv

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11738
  • Mein Freund ist mein
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2009, 05:48:17 PM »
That was VERY helpful. Many thanks. Although I think in the present situation it is our duty to buy as much Bach as possible to jump-start the economy again.


I have been helping to jump-start the UK economy rather than the US economy since I have been buying a lot of CD's from MDT at Derby, England.   ;D

Offline Coopmv

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11738
  • Mein Freund ist mein
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #128 on: February 18, 2009, 05:50:15 PM »
I very much enjoy Herrick's Bach.  True, Herrick isn't the man to turn to if you want your Bach sharply phrased with plenty of bite.  But he has a very attractive legato and great rhythmic flow.  I find him spiritually uplifting.

I have a few CD's of Sweelinck's works performed by Herrick, but no Bach.

Antoine Marchand

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2009, 09:25:19 AM »
I very much enjoy Herrick's Bach.  True, Herrick isn't the man to turn to if you want your Bach sharply phrased with plenty of bite.  But he has a very attractive legato and great rhythmic flow.  I find him spiritually uplifting.

I totally agree, Don. His playing is full of inner peace, even when he comes to the concertos. I have listened to the seventh disc -named The Italian Connection- three times this day. Well, after all, I'm on vacation  8).

Antoine Marchand

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2009, 09:42:03 AM »
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 09:44:59 AM by Antoine Marchand »

nut-job

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2009, 08:05:02 PM »
I have Alain's third set, and a primary complaint with it is that it is too resonant for my taste, all of that reverberation obscures the counterpoint.  It works on headphones, but with loudspeakers it is a bit of a soup.  How is the engineering of the second set, particularly with regard to clarity? 

Antoine Marchand

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #132 on: February 19, 2009, 08:35:31 PM »
Hi, nut-job.

Clearly the space is less resonant in the 2nd set.

Here an example:

<a href="http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=d797ddc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=d797ddc</a>
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 04:42:44 PM by Antoine Marchand »

nut-job

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2009, 10:53:13 PM »
Hi, nut-job.

Clearly the space is less resonant in the 2nd set.

Here an example:

<a href="http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=d797ddc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=d797ddc</a>

Very nice!

jlaurson

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2009, 01:56:51 AM »
Clearly the space is less resonant in the 2nd set.

Ah... even on computer speakers, Bach remains a miracle. I think that's it... MCAlain2, here I come! I have to go downtown today, anyway.

Also: What does anyone know about L.Rogg's Bach Cycle for Harmonia Mundi?!

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7145
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #135 on: February 20, 2009, 07:49:47 AM »
I totally agree, Don. His playing is full of inner peace, even when he comes to the concertos. I have listened to the seventh disc -named The Italian Connection- three times this day. Well, after all, I'm on vacation  8).

I agree about the inner peace, a fine way to put it, and this quality suits many of the works well e.g. the triosonatas and many of the chorale preludes, but elsewhere I miss some passion.
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7145
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #136 on: February 20, 2009, 07:52:54 AM »

While I am at it: Which of the cycles you have would you consider worth listening all-through?
Not the silly listing of "the best" ... but which ones are in one way or another so special that you'd like to see others having heard them?

Maybe along those lines (just an example):
If someone has not got Walcha (I or II), would you say that's more 'pressing' than MCAlain (II)?

A difficult question to answer in short. I shall give it a thought during the next week (have to do my work in the week-end) and even comment on Rogg.
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

nut-job

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #137 on: February 20, 2009, 08:18:46 AM »
I agree about the inner peace, a fine way to put it, and this quality suits many of the works well e.g. the triosonatas and many of the chorale preludes, but elsewhere I miss some passion.

The last thing I want to hear in the trio-sonatas is inner peace.  I was that fascinating counterpoint in my face.  Passion, I'm not sure that's helpful in this music.


Bulldog

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #138 on: February 20, 2009, 09:02:25 AM »
Ah... even on computer speakers, Bach remains a miracle. I think that's it... MCAlain2, here I come! I have to go downtown today, anyway.

Also: What does anyone know about L.Rogg's Bach Cycle for Harmonia Mundi?!


I've had this cycle for many years and  never tire of listening to it.  For my money, Rogg beats out just about all other contenders.  Be warned that it isn't "complete" by today's standards. 

nut-job

  • Guest
Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #139 on: February 20, 2009, 09:14:31 AM »
I've had this cycle for many years and  never tire of listening to it.  For my money, Rogg beats out just about all other contenders.  Be warned that it isn't "complete" by today's standards. 

Since the set is out of print, this is just gratuitous torture.