Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 390610 times)

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Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #180 on: February 22, 2009, 01:29:23 PM »
What does it mean to play organ sharp? Pressing the keys "sharply"?

Rübsam on Naxos.

It means the same thing as sharp phrasing from any keyboard instrument.  The performer is in charge of this feature.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #181 on: February 22, 2009, 01:38:30 PM »
What does it mean to play organ sharp? Pressing the keys "sharply"?

He does not play the organ sharp, nor is this what I wrote.

But his style of interpretation is sharp, f. ex. his articulation is pointed , and his agogics often rather abrupt.
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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2009, 01:42:05 PM »
Rübsam on Naxos.

In which respect is Weinberger "softer" than Rübsam??
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nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2009, 01:55:30 PM »
But his style of interpretation is sharp, f. ex. his articulation is pointed , and his agogics often rather abrupt.

I'd agree, and that's what I like about it.

Shame the the Rubsom/Philips cycle is not currently available.  It was out in a CD edition a few years ago but was quite expensive.  Seems like it would be a good candidate for a collector box.

jlaurson

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2009, 04:20:27 PM »
I'd agree, and that's what I like about it.

Shame the the Ruebsam/Philips cycle is not currently available.  It was out in a CD edition a few years ago but was quite expensive.  Seems like it would be a good candidate for a collector box.
Torrents/downloading aren't my thing at all (not even primarily an ethical question, which would be little issue in case of something so solidly OOP, in any case), but perhaps some are interested in it.

Philips Cycle of Ruebsam's Bach at torrent reactor dot net or MiniNova, respectively.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 04:45:59 PM by jlaurson »

Antoine Marchand

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2009, 04:32:58 PM »
Just arrived this week:

Ullrich Böhme
Orgelbüchlein / Little Organ Book
Querstand, 2007

It is a well-recorded disc, but sometimes uninspired; specially in Puer Natus in Bethelhem BWV 603 or Ich Ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ BWV639, two of my favorite preludes. I expected rather more when is announced as Ullrich Böhme An der Bach Orgel in der Thomaskirche zu Leipzig. Obviously, the “Bach organ” is not the instrument used by Bach, but an instrument built by Gerald Woehl (2000) in order to complement the old Sauer organ (1889), which is not suitable for Bach’s music.

I have read two explanations about the organ design:

- It was designed to look similar to the old organ on which Bach played in the Paulinerkirche.

- It is based on an organ designed by Bach's uncle Johann Christoph for the Georgenkirche in Eisenach.

The booklet does not say anything about it.

BTW, the booklet is fragile and stapled to the cover, which is very uncomfortable.

Here two (fine) examples from the CD:

Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ BWV 604

<a href="http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=fd198f0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=fd198f0</a>

Das alte Jahr vergangen ist BWV 614

<a href="http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=22771f4" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=22771f4</a>
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 05:09:23 PM by Antoine Marchand »

jlaurson

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #186 on: February 23, 2009, 03:02:20 AM »

nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #187 on: February 23, 2009, 08:41:28 AM »
Just arrived:



Complete (not really) Bach Organ Works,
Lionel Rogg (2nd ? Cycle, Harmonia Mundi)
Silbermann Organ in Arlesheim


[Got it used (a bit wear on the box) for ~$40,-]


Very fortunate to find it for $40, sellers on Amazon want a much larger sum to part with it.

One more comment I have, this set (far from complete) is gorgeous



What I really wish is that when record companies dice up the complete sets they would divide them by genre (i.e., all of the preludes and fugues, all of the trio sonatas, all of the concertos).  To many times they issue them as recitals, meaning that each volume contains 1/3 music I'm interested in and 2/3 music I would never listen to again if I lived to be 1000 years old.

jlaurson

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #188 on: February 23, 2009, 09:20:56 AM »
One more comment I have, this set (far from complete) is gorgeous


I've been talking my mouth fussy extolling the virtues of that set ever since it was (re-)issued in 2005.  ;D

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #189 on: February 23, 2009, 10:46:34 AM »
What I really wish is that when record companies dice up the complete sets they would divide them by genre (i.e., all of the preludes and fugues, all of the trio sonatas, all of the concertos).  To many times they issue them as recitals, meaning that each volume contains 1/3 music I'm interested in and 2/3 music I would never listen to again if I lived to be 1000 years old.


I can't agree.  I prefer some variety for each volume.  Also, how could you only be interested in 1/3 of Bach's organ music?  If that's true, why bother buying a complete set?

nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #190 on: February 23, 2009, 11:14:37 AM »
I can't agree.  I prefer some variety for each volume.  Also, how could you only be interested in 1/3 of Bach's organ music?  If that's true, why bother buying a complete set?

If I want variety, I am free to listen to selections from various discs. 

As to why I bother with complete sets, in the current era of value priced box sets it is cheaper to buy the complete set than the discs which contain the music I am interested in, particularly for record labels who package a few preludes a fugues that I am interested in with two dozen chorale preludes, which I am typically not interested in. 

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #191 on: February 23, 2009, 11:32:17 AM »
If I want variety, I am free to listen to selections from various discs. 

As to why I bother with complete sets, in the current era of value priced box sets it is cheaper to buy the complete set than the discs which contain the music I am interested in, particularly for record labels who package a few preludes a fugues that I am interested in with two dozen chorale preludes, which I am typically not interested in. 


You and I are opposites in these matters.  I see listening to selections from various discs a waste of labor, and I never buy any recordings I'm not interested in.  Also, what don't you like about Bach's chorale preludes?  Do you love Bach's Leipzig Chorales?

nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #192 on: February 23, 2009, 12:24:25 PM »
Also, what don't you like about Bach's chorale preludes?  Do you love Bach's Leipzig Chorales?

I don't even know.  There are so many of chorale preludes, and if you play a Bach organ CD you end up listening to at least 20 in a row, which is more than I can take.  As a result, I have no idea which ones I like and which ones I don't. 

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #193 on: February 23, 2009, 02:19:31 PM »
I don't even know.  There are so many of chorale preludes, and if you play a Bach organ CD you end up listening to at least 20 in a row, which is more than I can take.  As a result, I have no idea which ones I like and which ones I don't. 

The only single Bach organ discs I know of that have at least 20 chorale preludes in a row are discs devoted to Bach chorale preludes.

Might be a good idea to jot down those chorale preludes you like very much to insure that you don't buy in the future a disc of little enjoyment for yourself.

I'm adding another paragraph just to offer my opinion that Bach's Leipzig Chorales are amazing pieces.  They are often found all together on 2-cd sets, so you don't have to acquire any complete Bach organ set to get them.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 02:27:47 PM by Bulldog »

nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #194 on: February 23, 2009, 02:47:49 PM »
The only single Bach organ discs I know of that have at least 20 chorale preludes in a row are discs devoted to Bach chorale preludes.

You are right, the disc I was thinking only has 11.  Off by a factor of two

Quote
Might be a good idea to jot down those chorale preludes you like very much to insure that you don't buy in the future a disc of little enjoyment for yourself.

I'm adding another paragraph just to offer my opinion that Bach's Leipzig Chorales are amazing pieces.  They are often found all together on 2-cd sets, so you don't have to acquire any complete Bach organ set to get them.

As I have mentioned above, I currently have 3 complete sets (Alain, Walcha, Ritchie) with one on the auction block (Alain) and one on order (Weinberger) so I will not have to acquire anything to hear them.  Maybe I'll queue a few up this evening.

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #195 on: February 23, 2009, 02:52:27 PM »
Ullrich Böhme
Orgelbüchlein / Little Organ Book
Querstand, 2007

It is a well-recorded disc, but sometimes uninspired; specially in Puer Natus in Bethelhem BWV 603 or Ich Ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ BWV639, two of my favorite preludes. I expected rather more when is announced as Ullrich Böhme An der Bach Orgel in der Thomaskirche zu Leipzig. Obviously, the “Bach organ” is not the instrument used by Bach, but an instrument built by Gerald Woehl (2000) in order to complement the old Sauer organ (1889), which is not suitable for Bach’s music.

What did you expect? That a hitherto unknown autentic Bach organ suddenly had been discovered in the Thomas Kirche? Never-the-less you prompted me to relisten to the entire CD, and I find it a mixed pleasure. I do not think Böhme is to blame that much, he is an informed musician, and I find his interpretation committed and serious, maybe sometimes even a bit too serious. I do not like all his registrations, e.g. when he uses reeds with tremulant in plenum combinations, something he does here - and even more in his recording of the AoF. Neither is the problem with his Orgelbüchlein the recording as such, but first and foremost the sound of the organ. In these ears this is an organ without style and most of the stops lack a definite character. I would never be able to guess the organ.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 03:42:37 PM by premont »
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2009, 02:56:43 PM »
You are right, the disc I was thinking only has 11.  Off by a factor of two

As I have mentioned above, I currently have 3 complete sets (Alain, Walcha, Ritchie) with one on the auction block (Alain) and one on order (Weinberger) so I will not have to acquire anything to hear them.  Maybe I'll queue a few up this evening.


This isn't getting us anywhere.  I keep talking about music that fits on one or two cds, and you keep bringing up complete sets.  What's that about?

nut-job

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2009, 03:02:37 PM »
This isn't getting us anywhere.  I keep talking about music that fits on one or two cds, and you keep bringing up complete sets.  What's that about?

I don't get the question.  I already have three recordings of the chorale preludes you mentioned as part of three editions of Bach organ works.  You know, you are allowed to listen to individual discs from the complete sets.

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2009, 03:09:44 PM »
I don't get the question.  I already have three recordings of the chorale preludes you mentioned as part of three editions of Bach organ works.  You know, you are allowed to listen to individual discs from the complete sets.


We're just at different points on the spectrum.  I was attempting to get some talk going about recordings of the Leipzig Chorales.  For this to happen in any decent fashion, covering only performances from complete Bach organ sets won't suffice at all.

However, I am becoming aware of the high regard that many members here have for complete sets of just about everything.  So never mind.

Antoine Marchand

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #199 on: February 25, 2009, 12:33:11 PM »
What did you expect? That a hitherto unknown autentic Bach organ suddenly had been discovered in the Thomas Kirche?

No, Premont, I didn't expect a North German baroque organ suddenly founded in Leipzig, just some explanations in order to justify the organ's features and the models taken into account. Today is totally unthinkable to face this kind of work without some historical research, especially when a so historical place is concerned.

On the other hand, as you point out, the huge Böhme's "seriousness" could be the problem. This boy doesn't "play" the game; he doesn't flow with music (and the different pathos of the liturgical year). I feel, for instance, lost the joyful sense of the little bells in BWV 603. But probably I'm being unfair with Böhme because he is a very respectable organist.

Here some pictures of the "Bach church"  :):