Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 391116 times)

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jlaurson

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #320 on: March 22, 2009, 01:22:45 PM »
Finally got around to the Passacaglia of Marie-Claire Alain (cycle II). QUITE to my liking, at last...
I had gotten impatient after Andre Isoir (organist of my favorite "Art of the Fugue") (Calliope), Martin Sander (Audite), and Lionel Rogg (Harmonia Mundi) were not entirely convincing.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 01:38:07 PM by jlaurson »

Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #321 on: March 22, 2009, 01:35:12 PM »
Finally got around to the Passacaglia of Marie-Claire Alain (cycle II). QUITE to my liking, at last...
I had gotten impatient after Andre Isoir (Calliope), Martin Sander (Audite), and (Harmonia Mundi) were not entirely convincing.
 

Marie-Claire Alain is tried and true while I have never heard of the other two ...


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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #322 on: March 22, 2009, 01:37:03 PM »

Right now I'm listening to Olivier Vernet, playing a.o. the Trio Sonata in G (BWV 530) and the variations on "O Gott, du frommer Gott" (BWV 767) on the organ of l'Église Sainte-Croix de Montélimar.
I think he is a good Bach interpreter, and I like his choice of registrations. But I do not have a lot of organ-listening experience.
What do other members think of Vernet?

In my opinion Vernet combines informed scholarship and passionate approach in an individual and most often convincing synthesis marked by energy and brilliance. I do not think I could do with his integral as the only one, but I rate him very highly.

(Post scriptum: also in da house, library CD-stuff of the Dutch organ players Piet Wiersma, Bram Beekman and Wim van Beek, and also of Chorzempa, and I had a great weekend, sitting outside da house in the sun with two large headphones on my big ears. :D)

Bram Beekman´s integral is OOP - unfortunately, as his is probably the only integral I do not know at all. Chorzempa is one of the HIP pioneers but he has not recorded much.

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #323 on: March 22, 2009, 01:46:51 PM »
Finally got around to the Passacaglia of Marie-Claire Alain (cycle II). QUITE to my liking, at last...
I had gotten impatient after Andre Isoir (organist of my favorite "Art of the Fugue") (Calliope), Martin Sander (Audite), and Lionel Rogg (Harmonia Mundi) were not entirely convincing.

I am still considering my Bach organ integral recommendations. Not an easy task with that many.

But Marie-Claire Alain is to me mandatory, and the second cycle preferable.

Martin Sander´s only CD from Nidaros is passionate and rhethorical, his style seem to be inspired by the first Rübsam integral (Philips 1977) the style pulled a tad further. I must admit that I find him very exciting.

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jlaurson

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #324 on: March 22, 2009, 01:51:18 PM »

Martin Sander´s only CD from Nidaros is passionate and rhethorical, his style seem to be inspired by the first Rübsam integral (Philips 1977) the style pulled a tad further. I must admit that I find him very exciting.

Incidentally, the title of this new Audite Cd (recorded on the Wagner Organ in Trondheim) is "Pathos & Happiness/Delight" and I really like his Concerto in d BWV 596 and "Nun komm', der Heiden Heiland" (659-661). But in the Passacaglia, perhaps I'm not looking for passion or excitement but rigor that allows the music to develop its internal, necessary, compelling and compulsive forward drive.

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #325 on: March 22, 2009, 02:00:24 PM »
Incidentally, the title of this new Audite Cd (recorded on the Wagner Organ in Trondheim) is "Pathos & Happiness/Delight" and I really like his Concerto in d BWV 596 and "Nun komm', der Heiden Heiland" (659-661). But in the Passacaglia, perhaps I'm not looking for passion or excitement but rigor that allows the music to develop its internal, necessary, compelling and compulsive forward drive.

Agreed, exactly the Passacaglia is perhaps not the most successful piece on this CD, and a complete integral played in this way might become a bit tiresome in the long run. But still I find him exciting and inventive.
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #326 on: March 23, 2009, 10:27:38 AM »
Right now I'm listening to Olivier Vernet, playing a.o. the Trio Sonata in G (BWV 530) and the variations on "O Gott, du frommer Gott" (BWV 767) on the organ of l'Église Sainte-Croix de Montélimar.
I think he is a good Bach interpreter, and I like his choice of registrations. But I do not have a lot of organ-listening experience.
What do other members think of Vernet?

In my opinion Vernet combines informed scholarship and passionate approach in an individual and most often convincing synthesis marked by energy and brilliance. I do not think I could do with his integral as the only one, but I rate him very highly.

Thanks for sharing my first impressions! :)
I have a copy of this recital on MiniDisc, and I'm considering buying his integral. The complete set is available around € 60,-- here (and there?).

Bram Beekman´s integral is OOP - unfortunately, as his is probably the only integral I do not know at all. Chorzempa is one of the HIP pioneers but he has not recorded much.

I know about Beekman being OOP. A record salesman told me a couple of months ago that the publisher Lindenberg went bankrupt. Which made me realize that I was too late to 'easily' collect his integral. :(
Luckilly there is a good library system here in the Netherlands. Maybe I'll manage to get at least a copy of most of the volumes. But it will be a difficult task nevertheless, because I think that a lot of libraries had to clean up their music storage in the last decade or so. Of course eBay-kind of sites might help a bit while searching.

The last two or three weeks I have listened to a lot of Bach's organ music, with all the separate CD's that I found in my house, and Beekman's 2cd-sampler (also OOP) gives me the impression that his integral should be very good. He's playing on historical Dutch baroque organs. I would describe his playing as a fine combination of joy, spirituality and nobility. And the organs sound really wonderful. It's a real pity that this set is OOP. Hopefully another company is willing to buy the license.

About Chorzempa: this hybrid disc is a reissue of a 1970 quadrophonic Bach/Liszt recording, released by PentaTone. Especially the Bach works profit of a brilliant recording sound (organ of the Grote Kerk in Breda, Netherlands). I almost drowned in it! :D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 10:45:36 AM by Marc »
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #327 on: March 23, 2009, 05:35:43 PM »

About Chorzempa: this hybrid disc is a reissue of a 1970 quadrophonic Bach/Liszt recording, released by PentaTone. Especially the Bach works profit of a brilliant recording sound (organ of the Grote Kerk in Breda, Netherlands). I almost drowned in it! :D

I have always enjoyed the playing style of Chorzempa.  From LP's to CD's, I have quite a few of his recordings ...    ;D

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #328 on: March 24, 2009, 01:42:27 AM »
I am on the other hand not that happy with all Chorzempa´s Bach organ recordings (he changed rather much his style of interpretation during the 1980es-90es) and the one from Breda the least. Almost sticky in conception I think. But I have not listened to it via a headset though.

His most important Bach recordings IMO are the WTC part I & II (Philips) played on a host of different instruments (like the Robert Levin set), a brilliant and well articulated set, and his more than twenty years old recording of the Triosonatas (Philips) on the restored baroque organ in Meppel (as far as I remember), which some may find a bit sticky too, as well as his recording of the Sei Gergrüsset variations and the Schübler Chorales on the Johan Andreas Silbermann in Arlesheim (Philips), which are more middle-of -the-road HIP. These, I think, are well worth seeking out, but they are probably difficult to find to day.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 01:45:16 AM by premont »
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #329 on: March 24, 2009, 12:13:56 PM »
[About Chorzempa's Bach playing]
[....] Almost sticky in conception I think. [....]
[....] which some may find a bit sticky too [....]

Sticky: does this (f.i.) mean: lack of phrasing and articulation?
I have to listen to it again. I sometimes do have these kinda sticky 'problems' with Lionel Rogg, to be honest. Although I very much like his interpretation of the Mega Impressive Passacaglia & Fugue in C-minor, BWV 582. I've read somewhere that it's more 'HIP' to play it at full plenum from the beginning, but I still prefer the 'Bolero' kind of building. This is also done (if I remember it well) by f.i. Power Biggs and Chorzempa. At the end of the fuga thematum, Chorzempa plays some kind of a cadenza, that I've never heard before. It disturbs the structure a bit, but I was surprised to hear it, mainly in a positive way. At least it's something different. And again: the sound of this PentaTone re-recording is very much to my likings!

But it's not easy to give a thorough opinion about all this, since I'm not a real organ connaisseur. I don't know anything about all the 'technical' aspects, like stops, registrations, Hauptwerk, Rugwerk, or whatever. And there's another problem, too: since 2000/2001 (the release of the Bach boxes by Brilliant, a.o. the organ works by Fagius) I have not listened that much to organ music. Right now, after checking my collection, I switch from organ CD to organ CD like a 'raging bull', and I tend to like almost everything.

Well, to be honest, I'm not exactly raging, because I turned ill some days ago, and I feel rather sick. :(

But, to strengthen myself, I still play some (not only Bach) organ recordings. In a previous posting I forgot to mention this set, also reissued by Brilliant Classics:



Here's the playing list:
http://www.amazon.com/Famous-Dutch-Organs/product-reviews/B000FS2W7G/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

I think it's worth every penny, although 3 CD's are also in the before mentioned Ton Koopman 6CD-box, licensed from AVC Records, Switzerland.
Van Doeselaar, f.i., is a good Bach player, too, I think. The recording however of his recital sounds a bit too 'distant'.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 12:57:54 PM by Marc »
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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #330 on: March 24, 2009, 01:05:46 PM »
Sticky: does this (f.i.) mean: lack of phrasing and articulation?

No, rather some lack of momentum. Actually he overdoes the articulation in his earlier HIP recordings, almost to the point of a parody.

At the end of the fuga thematum, Chorzempa plays some kind of a cadenza, that I've never heard before. It disturbs the structure a bit, but I was surprised to hear it, mainly in a positive way. At least it's something different.

This general pause near the end of the fugue is found in other similar works and is by some modern organists supposed to be the place, where you should couple the RW-plenum to the HW-plenum. The tracktion mechanism of former days did not allow this during the playing. Others (e.g. Chorzempa, E Power Biggs and A Newman) use the occation to play short cadenzas. I think a cadenza must be very, very stylish to wear well with repeated listening.

Well, to be honest, I'm not exactly raging, because I turned ill some days ago, and I feel rather sick. :(.

Oh, you should stay in bed and experience the soothing effect of good music, not the least organ music. I wish you a fast recovery.

..this set, also reissued by Brilliant Classics:



I think it's worth every penny, although 3 CD's are also in the before mentioned Ton Koopman 6CD-box, licensed from AVC Records, Switzerland.
Van Doeselaar, f.i., is a good Bach player, too, I think. The recording however of his recital sounds a bit too 'distant'.

Yes, this is a very good set I think, and van Doeselaar perhaps the most impressive, almost titanic in effect. But the newly restored F.C.Schnitger organ in Alkmaar has got a substantial part in his success. I do not care much for the Reger pieces, but there is enough stuff in that box even without.

PS: see your PM (private mail)

Regards,
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #331 on: March 24, 2009, 02:05:32 PM »
No, rather some lack of momentum. Actually he overdoes the articulation in his earlier HIP recordings, almost to the point of a parody.

This general pause near the end of the fugue is found in other similar works and is by some modern organists supposed to be the place, where you should couple the RW-plenum to the HW-plenum. The tracktion mechanism of former days did not allow this during the playing. Others (e.g. Chorzempa, E Power Biggs and A Newman) use the occation to play short cadenzas. I think a cadenza must be very, very stylish to wear well with repeated listening.

Oh, you should stay in bed and experience the soothing effect of good music, not the least organ music. I wish you a fast recovery.

Yes, this is a very good set I think, and van Doeselaar perhaps the most impressive, almost titanic in effect. But the newly restored F.C.Schnitger organ in Alkmaar has got a substantial part in his success. I do not care much for the Reger pieces, but there is enough stuff in that box even without.

PS: see your PM (private mail)

Regards,

Premont, thanks for the reaction & explanations. I'm considering to hire some books about organs & organ playing to learn more about the 'technical' facts.
Yes, Alkmaar is sounding even better than in the Walcha-years after the second Flentrop (1987) restoration. I think I'll go to sleep in a warm bed, mit Begleitung von Bach & Van Doeselaar. After I mentioned his name in my previous message, I suddenly realized something, did another collection-check and yes .... found another organ one: the Clavierübung III with Van The Man. I'll get better soon now!
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #332 on: March 30, 2009, 05:52:08 PM »
Anyone familiar with Margaret Phillips' performance of JS Bach organ works?

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #333 on: March 30, 2009, 09:45:48 PM »
Anyone familiar with Margaret Phillips' performance of JS Bach organ works?

I have her vols. 3 and 4.  Excellent performances but nothing really distinctive.  The sound on vol. 4 is perfect.

Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #334 on: March 31, 2009, 05:02:09 PM »
I have her vols. 3 and 4.  Excellent performances but nothing really distinctive.  The sound on vol. 4 is perfect.

She recorded a total of 4 volumes on the Regent label and I am considering getting all of them before I get the Weinberger 22-CD set next month ...

Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #335 on: April 02, 2009, 07:35:38 PM »
These are my favorite LP's on Bach Organ Works ...


Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #336 on: April 02, 2009, 07:36:40 PM »
Here is another set on EMI by Lionel Rogg


Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #337 on: April 03, 2009, 05:54:12 AM »
She recorded a total of 4 volumes on the Regent label and I am considering getting all of them before I get the Weinberger 22-CD set next month ...

Just keep in mind that Phillips never reaches the heights achieved by Weinberger (nor the lows).  She's about as mainstream as it gets.

Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #338 on: April 03, 2009, 05:28:24 PM »
Just keep in mind that Phillips never reaches the heights achieved by Weinberger (nor the lows).  She's about as mainstream as it gets.

Understood.  I always have an eye for new recordings of works by JS Bach - from passion to violin concertos to organ works ...

Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #339 on: April 07, 2009, 08:56:04 AM »
These are my favorite LP's on Bach Organ Works ...
[pictures of Lilly LP-covers Bach/Chorzempa]

Hmm, I recently missed a used CD version of the Schübler-recording by a narrow 50 eurocents.
These two issues are, AFAIK, OOP already for many years. :(
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