Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 390755 times)

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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #420 on: May 03, 2009, 09:59:54 PM »
I think the "quantity" priority has increased greatly on the board in recent months.  Any ideas why? 

Maybe because record companies are offering more and more box sets during the last years?

Honestly, I myself do 'sympathize' with both quality and quantity aspects of buying music.

When Bach's organ compositions are concerned: apparently a lot of respected organist want to record the entire oeuvre, even the works of lesser quality. So why aren't the listeners allowed to want to buy them?

Of course, as was stated before, quality is the main thing.

But if I hear f.i. Koopman or Vernet playing on a single disc and I like what I hear, it may happen that I 'long' to have their entire Bach integral, especially when the price is attractive.
When I see a very budget-priced set (i.c. Stockmeier) I can feel very tempted to buy it, because I'm curious how he's playing and also curious about the price/value combination.

Don, you seem to own a decent amount of recordings yourself. And recently you have been listening to some discs with the Leipzig chorals. I assume that you own them yourself. But apparently they aren't all that good, as your comments are showing. So, according to your own small reviews (thanks again for them!), it may have been wiser to listen to some samples before buying .... like in the good old days in the old-fashioned record shop.

So one could ask in this specific matter:
Why did you buy them?
For quality or quantity reasons?
Out of curiosity?
Did someone with good knowledge praise them?
Or were some of them budget-priced?

Or are you one of the 'chosen people' ;) who get their discs without paying, because they are professional reviewers? In that case, you can have both quantity and quality for free. Maybe it's not really fair to judge the average music lover who wants to have all those discs, too. And who also has to pay for them. 

Don't get me wrong: if a board consists only of remarks like "I have 127 recordings of this, and 74 recordings of that", then I'm bored very quickly, too. Of course I would prefer it, if those collectors would say something interesting about the quality of all those recordings.
As for myself: I find it not that easy to write about (the quality of) music. How does one put one's opinion about music in words? Almost impossible for me, I must admit. Another problem is: English is not my mother tongue, and sometimes it's hard to express myself in that language.

But I'll keep visiting this board for some time I guess. Mainly out of curiosity and, apart from the above mentioned 'problems', because sometimes I feel the urge to communicate about music.

So Don, please keep collecting the single discs and say interesting things about them on this board! :)
And Coop, keep collecting the integrals until your money has gone (if you really want to do that ;)). And please, if possible: say something valuable about all those integrals you (are going to) own. :)
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Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #421 on: May 04, 2009, 04:29:50 AM »

Don, you seem to own a decent amount of recordings yourself. And recently you have been listening to some discs with the Leipzig chorals. I assume that you own them yourself. But apparently they aren't all that good, as your comments are showing. So, according to your own small reviews (thanks again for them!), it may have been wiser to listen to some samples before buying .... like in the good old days in the old-fashioned record shop.

So one could ask in this specific matter:
Why did you buy them?
For quality or quantity reasons?
Out of curiosity?
Did someone with good knowledge praise them?
Or were some of them budget-priced?

Or are you one of the 'chosen people' ;) who get their discs without paying, because they are professional reviewers? In that case, you can have both quantity and quality for free. Maybe it's not really fair to judge the average music lover who wants to have all those discs, too. And who also has to pay for them. 


Most of my record collection does not come from MusicWeb.  Where I have many multiple recordings of particular works, the reason was two-fold: love for the works and an inventory to do review projects for another source. 

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #422 on: May 04, 2009, 07:59:33 AM »
Listened last night to Christopher Herrick's accout of the Leipzig Chorales - definitely one of my favored versions.  Although I tend to prefer my Bach with rather sharp contours, Herrick's sumptuous performances always win my heart.  I have the original 2-cd set that appears to now be oop, but Hyperion has put all of Herrick's cycle in one big box.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #423 on: May 04, 2009, 11:45:26 AM »
but don't you love the sound on vol. 4?

Oh yes, but I was referring to the interpretation.
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Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #424 on: May 04, 2009, 12:22:02 PM »
Oh yes, but I was referring to the interpretation.

Understood.

Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #425 on: May 04, 2009, 03:26:01 PM »
Listened last night to Christopher Herrick's accout of the Leipzig Chorales - definitely one of my favored versions.  Although I tend to prefer my Bach with rather sharp contours, Herrick's sumptuous performances always win my heart.  I have the original 2-cd set that appears to now be oop, but Hyperion has put all of Herrick's cycle in one big box.

My only exposure to Herrick was from this CD-set, one of the few recordings of Seelinck's works that are easy to find out there ...


Antoine Marchand

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #426 on: May 04, 2009, 04:09:03 PM »
Listened last night to Christopher Herrick's accout of the Leipzig Chorales - definitely one of my favored versions.  Although I tend to prefer my Bach with rather sharp contours, Herrick's sumptuous performances always win my heart.  I have the original 2-cd set that appears to now be oop, but Hyperion has put all of Herrick's cycle in one big box.

Certainly, Herrick is a rewarding experience. "Spiritually uplifting" was your definition sometime ago and I agree.

Unfortunately, I have detected little interferences in the sound of some pieces. Call me obsessive, but those mistakes are totally anticlimactic.  :-\
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 05:12:10 PM by Antoine Marchand »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #427 on: May 05, 2009, 02:12:11 AM »
Well, I can not say, that I find Bovyers set that interesting. Being a completist in these matters, I intended to acquire the complete set, but ceased after 10 CDs.

First his style is much similar to what was common use in the 1950es-60es with a tendency to legato touch and old fashioned register changes. Add to this a generally overly rushed rather metrical pace, which fast becomes boring. And besides I do not like the sound of this new Marcussen organ, which is "white" and sharp, as if all the pipes were made of stainless steel. I have not heard the organ in question live, but the recorded sound is probably realistic, as I have heard many other contemporary Marcussen organs live, which sounded like this one. Unfortunately he uses the same organ for all the CDs.

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Offline Que

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #428 on: May 05, 2009, 03:33:59 AM »
Well, I can not say, that I find Bovyers set that interesting. Being a completist in these matters, I intended to acquire the complete set, but ceased after 10 CDs.

First his style is much similar to what was common use in the 1950es-60es with a tendency to legato touch and old fashioned register changes. Add to this a generally overly rushed rather metrical pace, which fast becomes boring. And besides I do not like the sound of this new Marcussen organ, which is "white" and sharp, as if all the pipes were made of stainless steel. I have not heard the organ in question live, but the recorded sound is probably realistic, as I have heard many other contemporary Marcussen organs live, which sounded like this one. Unfortunately he uses the same organ for all the CDs.

Haven't tried as much Bowyer as Premont, but al I can say is: seconded.

Q
À chacun son goût.

Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #429 on: May 05, 2009, 04:15:38 AM »
Most of my record collection does not come from MusicWeb. Where I have many multiple recordings of particular works, the reason was two-fold: love for the works and an inventory to do review projects for another source. 

Understood.
My point is: different people have different ways of collecting music. But to me, that's no reason to downgrade the other person's habits. 'Coop' may be a 'box set collector', and IMO he's free to do so. You're more the type of collecting single discs. Nothing wrong with that, too, I'd say.
I myself do both, and I tend to look at the price, too. I'm not a very wealthy man, you see?

About the box sets of Bach's organ works: for me, the year of 2009 has been a very expensive year so far. I've collected Walcha (mono/Documents), Stockmeier (Documents), Koopman (Teldec), Preston (DG), Beekman (Lindenberg/unfortunately OOP), Vernet (Ligia) and Weinberger (CPO). I already owned Fagius (BIS/Brilliant). I didn't have enough time to listen to all the discs ;), but so far I like Beekman best. Walcha is impressive and Vernet, Weinberger, Fagius and Stockmeier seem to be very good in general, too. I also like Koopman very much, but he's the most eccentric and for that reason probably not to everyone's liking. Preston is too superficial to me, and sometimes even annoying. It feels like he's dancing on a nail bed, especially in many non-liturgical works.
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #430 on: May 05, 2009, 04:38:02 AM »
Understood.
My point is: different people have different ways of collecting music. But to me, that's no reason to downgrade the other person's habits. 'Coop' may be a 'box set collector', and IMO he's free to do so. You're more the type of collecting single discs. Nothing wrong with that, too, I'd say.
I myself do both, and I tend to look at the price, too. I'm not a very wealthy man, you see?


It turns out that we have much in common, I do both big box and individual collections.  I have the bulk of the Bach Organ Works recorded by both Marie-Claire Alain and Simon Preston in single CD's, though I would love to get Alain's third and probably her last cycle in the big box.  I also have 5 volumes of Peter Hurford's Bach Organ Works, again not a big box.  I bought the Karajan Symphony Edition just to own the Complete Bruckner Symphonies and the few Haydn Symphonies I do not already have in singles.  I go for the big box based on economic calculations, it would have cost me far more to get the Complete Bruckners and the missing Haydns on individual CD's, with individual liner-notes and CD artworks the only thing to gain ...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 04:45:53 AM by Coopmv »

Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #431 on: May 05, 2009, 07:20:20 AM »
It turns out that we have much in common, I do both big box and individual collections.

:)

But even if we didn't have this in common, it should be possible to communicate about music in a decent, non-downgrading way, wouldn't you agree?

Quote from: Coopmv
I have the bulk of the Bach Organ Works recorded by both Marie-Claire Alain and Simon Preston in single CD's, though I would love to get Alain's third and probably her last cycle in the big box.

I regularly enjoy two discs of Alain, one 'greatest hits' aux grand orgues Schwekedel de la Collégiale de Saint-Donat (BWV 565, 578, 593, 542 & 582), and the Trio Sonates of her last integral, played on the beautiful Schnitger organ of the Groningen Der Aa Kerk (Netherlands). Alas, I never heard this organ 'live' in concert, because right now it's been 'in restauration' for already many many years.
Alain's third integral is on my 'wanting-list', too. But it has to wait, for 'wallet reasons'. ;)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 09:15:46 AM by Marc »
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Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #432 on: May 05, 2009, 08:00:58 AM »
Just finished listening to Bryndorf's Haenssler recording of the Leipzig Chorales - an excellent interpretation that stresses the majesty and celebration of the music.

Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #433 on: May 05, 2009, 08:39:17 AM »
Just finished listening to Bryndorf's Haenssler recording of the Leipzig Chorales - an excellent interpretation that stresses the majesty and celebration of the music.

And I listened this afternoon to half of the Leipzig Chorales played by Simon Preston, shortly after I 'bullied' him. I have to admit: he's doing a better job with these liturgical works, but still he wouldn't be my first choice: after a while I got a bit bored. For instance, that fine choral Schmücke dich, o liebe Seele (BWV 654) didn't really move me.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 09:28:17 AM by Marc »
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #434 on: May 05, 2009, 08:46:13 AM »
:)

But even if we didn't have this in common, it should be possible to communicate about music in a decent, non-downgrading way, wouldn't you agree?

I regularly enjoy two discs of Alain, one 'greatest hits' aux grand orgues Schwekedel de la Collégiale de Saint-Donat (BWV 565, 578, 593, 542 & 582), and the Trio Sonates of her last integral, played on the beautiful Schnitger organ of the Groningen Der Aa Kerk (Netherlands). Alas, I never heard this organ 'live' in concert, because right now it's been 'in restauration' for already many many years.
Alain's third integral is on my 'wanting-list', too. But is has to wait, for 'wallet reasons'. ;)

Here is one of my all-time favorites ...


Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #435 on: May 05, 2009, 09:02:04 AM »
Here is one of my all-time favorites ...
[pic of MCA's Trio Sonatas CD, recorded at l'Église Saint-Hilaire de Näfels, Glaris, Switzerland]

Oui, la Grande Dame des Orgues did record an 'awful' lot of Bach. Not only three integrals, but a lot of 'single discs', too. Quite a legacy, and a gift to all her fans. If I'm not mistaken, Olivier Vernet was one of her pupils. She plays with him (and 2 others) in the integral of Vernet, i.c. the organ arrangments of the multiple harpsichord concertos. A nice bonus to the Vernet set!
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Offline Coopmv

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #436 on: May 05, 2009, 09:13:56 AM »
Oui, la Grande Dame des Orgues did record an 'awful' lot of Bach. Not only three integrals, but a lot of 'single discs', too. Quite a legacy, and a gift to all her fans. If I'm not mistaken, Olivier Vernet was one of her pupils. She plays with him (and 2 others) in the integral of Vernet, i.c. the organ arrangments of the multiple harpsichord concertos. A nice bonus to the Vernet set!
 

The English organist Margaret Phillips was one of Alain's students as well.  I just bought all her 4 volumes of Bach Organ Works on Regent ...

Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #437 on: May 05, 2009, 10:55:40 AM »
And I listened this afternoon to half of the Leipzig Chorales played by Simon Preston, shortly after I 'bullied' him. I have to admit: he's doing a better job with these liturgical works, but still he wouldn't be my first choice: after a while I got a bit bored. For instance, that fine choral Schmücke dich, o liebe Seele (BWV 654) didn't really move me.

Who would be your first choice or choices?

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #438 on: May 05, 2009, 11:40:33 AM »

As for Banegas, she indulges in some clipped rhythmic patterns I don't care for.

Listened for the first time to this to day (and only the second half). IMO the sound of this Trost organ is nothing but very charming, and this was originally the reason why I acquired it. And Banegas´ registrations are rather colourful I think. I only heard "clipped rhythmic patterns" in the first chorale on Nun komm, der Heiden Heilland BWV 659, some of the melisms in the cantus being a bit abrupt. Else I liked it.
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Bulldog

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #439 on: May 05, 2009, 12:26:06 PM »
Listened for the first time to this to day (and only the second half). IMO the sound of this Trost organ is nothing but very charming, and this was originally the reason why I acquired it. And Banegas´ registrations are rather colourful I think. I only heard "clipped rhythmic patterns" in the first chorale on Nun komm, der Heiden Heilland BWV 659, some of the melisms in the cantus being a bit abrupt. Else I liked it.

I think I've listened to the Banegas about five times.  Maybe no. 6 will be the winner.  I do agree about the Trost organ.