Author Topic: Mahler Mania, Rebooted  (Read 309923 times)

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Offline Cato

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3880 on: July 27, 2017, 12:40:54 PM »
Lenny, you got some 'splainin' to do!

Would Mr. Bernstein have considered a trio of voices for Schubert's Erlkoenig ?   ;)
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Offline Jeffrey Smith

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3881 on: July 27, 2017, 12:49:36 PM »
Lenny may have popularized the idea, but he did not invent it. It was first used in 1962 by Kraus,  then 1966 by Morris, then in 1967 (orchestral) and 1968 (piano) by Bernstein. In the latter year Szell did it with Schwarzkopf and DFD, a threesome capable of resisting the bubble popularity, I think. After them, the duet format was used by, inter alia, Haitink, Inbal, Tennstedt, Colin Davis, and Gielen, not to mention two later recordings by Bernstein and recordings by lesser conductors.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 12:51:35 PM by Jeffrey Smith »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3882 on: July 27, 2017, 01:32:53 PM »
Would Mr. Bernstein have considered a trio of voices for Schubert's Erlkoenig ?   ;)
For Erlkoenig one could argue for four: narrator, father, child, Erlkoenig. And on top of that the narrator enters into a dialogue with himself in the first stanza!
I guess Goethe did that maybe to prefigure the question - answer structure of later stanzas and probably also because it makes a good attention-capturing beginning.

And Erlkoenig has been done by "trios"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ60QF6map0

Apparently there is also a version with 3 singers on Vol. 24 "A Goethe Schubertiad" of the Hyperion Schubert series.
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Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3883 on: July 28, 2017, 02:54:31 PM »
Lenny may have popularized the idea, but he did not invent it. It was first used in 1962 by Kraus,  then 1966 by Morris, then in 1967 (orchestral) and 1968 (piano) by Bernstein. In the latter year Szell did it with Schwarzkopf and DFD, a threesome capable of resisting the bubble popularity, I think. After them, the duet format was used by, inter alia, Haitink, Inbal, Tennstedt, Colin Davis, and Gielen, not to mention two later recordings by Bernstein and recordings by lesser conductors.
I tend to think that is rather pointless and is worthwhile only as some kind of stunt. The whole point of the work is how one singer can use his/her voice to animate 4 different personalities in a span of about 3 minutes.

Online rfeo

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3884 on: August 04, 2017, 01:18:39 AM »
The whole point of the work is how one singer can use his/her voice to animate 4 different personalities in a span of about 3 minutes.

I guess some singers are not up to the task.
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Offline α |

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3885 on: August 10, 2017, 05:05:03 PM »
It's not his 6th,7th or 9th buuuutttttttt, I'm seeing his 1st tonight  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)




p.s., did I mention this:

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Offline Jay F

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3886 on: August 10, 2017, 07:12:27 PM »
I'm taking a class in Mahler's symphonies this fall. 15 weeks x almost 3 hours, nothing but Mahler. I can hardly wait.

Offline zamyrabyrd

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3887 on: August 10, 2017, 09:43:49 PM »
I guess some singers are not up to the task.

Voices, not singers. I don't think that Erlkoenig is convincing sung by a woman. As a light soprano I would never attempt it.
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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3888 on: August 17, 2017, 07:38:40 AM »
Thanks for clearing that up folks! Sorry I haven't been around, it's been a busy few weeks.

Now I have another question. Did Totenfeier and the first movement of the second symphony grow out of parts of "Der Spielmann", the second movement of Das klagende Lied? I've start to listen through Sinopoli's Mahler recordings (of the modern Mahler conductors Sinopoli is one of the few who seems to approach Mahler with a philosophy beyond "gotta do that Mahler ain't I?", and it makes for an interesting listen, though his propensity for conducting with his vocal cords can be a little off-putting) and noticed some strong similarities between the two, especially in the openings.

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3889 on: August 17, 2017, 07:45:47 AM »
Thanks for clearing that up folks! Sorry I haven't been around, it's been a busy few weeks.

Now I have another question. Did Totenfeier and the first movement of the second symphony grow out of parts of "Der Spielmann", the second movement of Das klagende Lied? I've start to listen through Sinopoli's Mahler recordings (of the modern Mahler conductors Sinopoli is one of the few who seems to approach Mahler with a philosophy beyond "gotta do that Mahler ain't I?", and it makes for an interesting listen, though his propensity for conducting with his vocal cords can be a little off-putting) and noticed some strong similarities between the two, especially in the openings.

There are semi-quotes from Das klagende Lied in both the First and Second symphonies, as well as the early set of songs usually grouped as Three Lieder that constitutes the earliest music we have outside of the Piano Quartet.

The connection between Das klagende Lied and the opening movement of the Second (as well as its original version, Totenfeier) is in Mahler's particular treatment of the Dies Irae motif.  I'd also point to the "sleeping" motif in the cantata as being similar to the second theme of that movement, as well as related to Wagner's Walkure.

Offline Crudblud

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3890 on: August 17, 2017, 07:51:43 AM »
There are semi-quotes from Das klagende Lied in both the First and Second symphonies, as well as the early set of songs usually grouped as Three Lieder that constitutes the earliest music we have outside of the Piano Quartet.

The connection between Das klagende Lied and the opening movement of the Second (as well as its original version, Totenfeier) is in Mahler's particular treatment of the Dies Irae motif.  I'd also point to the "sleeping" motif in the cantata as being similar to the second theme of that movement, as well as related to Wagner's Walkure.

Thanks! This is just what I was looking for.

Offline α |

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3891 on: August 19, 2017, 12:02:53 AM »
Yep..


Just confirming that I'm definitely a Mahlerian  ;D


 :'( :'( :'(







 ;D ;D ;D ;D  8)

Offline α |

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3892 on: August 20, 2017, 02:35:58 AM »
I don't mean to be cliche but why is the adagietto from his 5th so overwhelming.

The theme is just like a heart killer. You have the three note scale leading into the somber major 7th to crack it off and it kills me, it's so powerful, fuck me  :'( :'( :'( :'(


I can't get Mahler out of my head lately (same with certain late century modernists I've been talking about elsewhere).

Offline α |

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3893 on: September 04, 2017, 01:08:56 AM »
It's happening again  :'( :'( :'(

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3894 on: September 04, 2017, 08:45:49 AM »
I don't mean to be cliche but why is the adagietto from his 5th so overwhelming.

The theme is just like a heart killer. You have the three note scale leading into the somber major 7th to crack it off and it kills me, it's so powerful, fuck me  :'( :'( :'( :'(


I can't get Mahler out of my head lately (same with certain late century modernists I've been talking about elsewhere).

I find the climax towards the end of the Adagietto to be almost unbearable. I hear more than a mere love letter in this music. Its as if someone has thrown in the towel and cant deal with their depression any longer. They no longer know what to do. Mahler is always in my head, too. Not that this is a bad thing --- far from it. He was an incredible composer who wore his heart on his sleeve. People can fault him all they want to, but he wrote what he knew he had to and what he had to express. If anything, youve got to admire his honesty.
Truly there would be reason to go mad were it not for music. - Tchaikovsky

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3895 on: September 25, 2017, 09:24:23 AM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3896 on: September 25, 2017, 09:46:56 AM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?



Levine is quite a good Mahler conductor overall. His 3rd was especially well thought of in all of the reviews Ive read.
Truly there would be reason to go mad were it not for music. - Tchaikovsky

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3897 on: September 25, 2017, 09:49:59 AM »
Thanks!


For my part, when Jimmy conducted the BSO in the Ninth here in Symphony Hall, it was a luminous experience.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3898 on: September 25, 2017, 09:52:44 AM »
Thanks!


For my part, when Jimmy conducted the BSO in the Ninth here in Symphony Hall, it was a luminous experience.

Much welcome, my friend. I bet Levine was spectacular in concert. In all honesty, Ive never heard a bad performance from him.
Truly there would be reason to go mad were it not for music. - Tchaikovsky

Offline ritter

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3899 on: September 25, 2017, 12:43:06 PM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?


My enthusiasm for Mahler has waned (temporarily?) over the past couple of years, so I don't know if I qualify. Furthhmore, I do not (yet?) own that set.....but  ;):

1) My late dad, who was a lifelong Mahler enthusiast, had Levine's recordings in the highest esteem (I can still see--figurately--the LP sets in our library back home).

2) Not too long ago,  I caught the Das himmlische Leben movement from the Fourth Symphony on Spanish National Radio, and (not knowing who was playing) thought to myself "This is superb!". And, yes, when it finished, the announcer said it was Levine's CSO recording with Judith Raskin.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:47:05 PM by ritter »
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