Author Topic: Mahler Mania, Rebooted  (Read 345765 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3880 on: September 25, 2017, 08:46:56 AM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?—



Levine is quite a good Mahler conductor overall. His 3rd was especially well thought of in all of the reviews I’ve read.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3881 on: September 25, 2017, 08:49:59 AM »
Thanks!


For my part, when Jimmy conducted the BSO in the Ninth here in Symphony Hall, it was a luminous experience.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3882 on: September 25, 2017, 08:52:44 AM »
Thanks!


For my part, when Jimmy conducted the BSO in the Ninth here in Symphony Hall, it was a luminous experience.

Much welcome, my friend. I bet Levine was spectacular in concert. In all honesty, I’ve never heard a ‘bad’ performance from him.
“I really would like to go to Marmorkirken. It was there that I heard music for the first time, and that experience is like a heavenly vision for me.” - Rued Langgaard

Offline ritter

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3883 on: September 25, 2017, 11:43:06 AM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?—


My enthusiasm for Mahler has waned (temporarily?) over the past couple of years, so I don't know if I qualify. Furthhmore, I do not (yet?) own that set.....but  ;):

1) My late dad, who was a lifelong Mahler enthusiast, had Levine's recordings in the highest esteem (I can still see--figurately--the LP sets in our library back home).

2) Not too long ago,  I caught the Das himmlische Leben movement from the Fourth Symphony on Spanish National Radio, and (not knowing who was playing) thought to myself "This is superb!". And, yes, when it finished, the announcer said it was Levine's CSO recording with Judith Raskin.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:47:05 AM by ritter »
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Offline André

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3884 on: September 25, 2017, 03:37:59 PM »
I find it's a remarkable set. Everything oozes dedication from the players and persuasion from the conductor.

Offline André

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3885 on: September 25, 2017, 04:32:32 PM »


Listening to the last minutes of the 10th under Nézet-Séguin as I type.

I have 5 versions of the completed 10th symphony (Levine, Goldschmidt, Barshai, Inbal and this). Some are of the first Cooke completion, others from the second, and there is Barshai's own take on the work.I have never heard a version that made me think this was one of Mahler's best works. Both the first and the last movement are extraordinary. In between are some very good things, but I think the level of accomplishment is variable.

The most striking versions are this one (YNS) and the Goldschmidt. The difference in timing is about 13 minutes. I don't think it's a matter of version (text), but a totally different interpretive perspective. Goldschmidt is resolutely modern and provocative. YNS is romantic, yearning and nostalgic.

Any comments on the 10th and its various disc incarnations ?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:34:46 PM by André »

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3886 on: September 25, 2017, 06:20:10 PM »
Do our Mahler enthusiasts recommend this?—



Yes...but I would suggest seeking out his recording of M9 with the Munich Philharmonic, on Oehms. It's one of the best out there, as your concert experience might suggest. OTOH, I have two live performances of M2 from him which I don't recommend (in part because of sonics, but only in part).

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3887 on: September 25, 2017, 11:21:39 PM »


Listening to the last minutes of the 10th under Nézet-Séguin as I type.

Any comments on the 10th and its various disc incarnations?

Some here: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/06/gustav-mahler-symphony-no10-part-1.html - but this doesn't include listenings to recent M10s yet -- such as the Nezet Seguin you mention, or the one on Wergo, or Seattle's with Schwartz.

The Wergo one is more interesting in theory than practice. My favorite is still the very colorful Barshai version & recording.



Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3888 on: September 26, 2017, 04:39:32 AM »
My enthusiasm for Mahler has waned (temporarily?) over the past couple of years, so I don't know if I qualify. Furthhmore, I do not (yet?) own that set.....but  ;):

1) My late dad, who was a lifelong Mahler enthusiast, had Levine's recordings in the highest esteem (I can still see--figurately--the LP sets in our library back home).

2) Not too long ago,  I caught the Das himmlische Leben movement from the Fourth Symphony on Spanish National Radio, and (not knowing who was playing) thought to myself "This is superb!". And, yes, when it finished, the announcer said it was Levine's CSO recording with Judith Raskin.

I find it's a remarkable set. Everything oozes dedication from the players and persuasion from the conductor.

Yes...but I would suggest seeking out his recording of M9 with the Munich Philharmonic, on Oehms. It's one of the best out there, as your concert experience might suggest. OTOH, I have two live performances of M2 from him which I don't recommend (in part because of sonics, but only in part).

Thanks, all!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3889 on: September 26, 2017, 06:18:39 AM »


Listening to the last minutes of the 10th under Nézet-Séguin as I type.

I have 5 versions of the completed 10th symphony (Levine, Goldschmidt, Barshai, Inbal and this). Some are of the first Cooke completion, others from the second, and there is Barshai's own take on the work.I have never heard a version that made me think this was one of Mahler's best works. Both the first and the last movement are extraordinary. In between are some very good things, but I think the level of accomplishment is variable.

The most striking versions are this one (YNS) and the Goldschmidt. The difference in timing is about 13 minutes. I don't think it's a matter of version (text), but a totally different interpretive perspective. Goldschmidt is resolutely modern and provocative. YNS is romantic, yearning and nostalgic.

Any comments on the 10th and its various disc incarnations ?

The Tenth is, like all of Mahler's other symphonies, a unique structure, and so it needs to be taken individually.  It's best to think of it as consisting of two parts:

Part 1
I, II

Part 2
III, IV, V

Conversely, you could set it up like the Fifth and split it into three parts with the Purgatorio in the center by itself, but there's a good reason to put it with the last two movements.  The comparison with the Fifth is revealing because the Tenth is its opposite in several ways.  The Fifth has a center-heavy structure, where the scherzo forms the complex central pillar that defines the relationships to the outer parts, while the Seventh, like the Tenth, has a symmetrical structure focused on the outer movements.

Dramatically, the Purgatorio is the turning-point of the structure, forcing the symphony to break away from the F# center of the first two movements and introducing the thematic material that dominates the last three.  These things are all resolved in the finale when the massive dissonant chord from the first movement returns and melts into the theme of that movement, finishing off the work in the initial key of F# major.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline André

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3890 on: September 26, 2017, 07:20:41 AM »
Some here: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/06/gustav-mahler-symphony-no10-part-1.html - but this doesn't include listenings to recent M10s yet -- such as the Nezet Seguin you mention, or the one on Wergo, or Seattle's with Schwartz.

The Wergo one is more interesting in theory than practice. My favorite is still the very colorful Barshai version & recording.

Thanks for that, it's a very informative essay. Reinforces the work in progress impression, the idea that there is still a lot that will remain unclear about the work. Completions are just that: best intentions and best efforts toward a respectful and meaningful artistic solution. Reminds me of the still unfinished work on Gaudi's Sagrada Familia: how would it stand today if Gaudi had been around to see it finished ?

Time to relisten to Barshai and Slatkin (forgot I had that, too !).

.........................................................................................

Very interesting, Mahlerian. I'll keep those points in mind next time I listen to the 10th !
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 07:22:25 AM by André »

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3891 on: September 26, 2017, 08:00:30 AM »
Very interesting, Mahlerian. I'll keep those points in mind next time I listen to the 10th !

Glad I could help!  Remember that all of that stuff about form and content (as opposed to details of instrumentation) comes directly from Mahler, and it will apply to all completions of the work equally.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3892 on: September 27, 2017, 01:31:42 AM »
Thanks for that, it's a very informative essay. Reinforces the work in progress impression, the idea that there is still a lot that will remain unclear about the work. Completions are just that: best intentions and best efforts toward a respectful and meaningful artistic solution. Reminds me of the still unfinished work on Gaudi's Sagrada Familia: how would it stand today if Gaudi had been around to see it finished ?

Time to relisten to Barshai and Slatkin (forgot I had that, too !).




Thanks for the kind words. You're welcome. (There's a second part to it; easy to miss, because the links are so small. That lists most of the available recordings up to two years ago: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/06/gustav-mahler-symphony-no10-part-2.html

Offline Senta

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3893 on: October 02, 2017, 01:00:07 PM »
Some may have caught this livestream yesterday, but if you didn't it's up for another 24 hours -

Salonen/Philharmonia in a simply ravishing, searing 3rd featuring a luminous Michelle DeYoung.

Glorious playing and so much beautiful detail. Quite emotional too (couldn't help but tear up in the last movement!)

I've always loved what he does with M3!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8rg0VYnTHog" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8rg0VYnTHog</a>


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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3894 on: October 09, 2017, 05:33:54 AM »
Yes...but I would suggest seeking out his recording of M9 with the Munich Philharmonic, on Oehms. It's one of the best out there, as your concert experience might suggest. OTOH, I have two live performances of M2 from him which I don't recommend (in part because of sonics, but only in part).

Many thanks, again, Jeffrey.  I have as yet listened only to the closing Adagio (seems to be my current “hang-up”), and it is indeed exquisite.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3895 on: October 09, 2017, 08:11:38 AM »
Many thanks, again, Jeffrey.  I have as yet listened only to the closing Adagio (seems to be my current “hang-up”), and it is indeed exquisite.

Great to hear you’re enjoying Mahler’s music, Karl! 8)
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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3896 on: November 09, 2017, 08:04:18 AM »
What is your favorite recording of Mahler's No. 2?  Basically if you were going to introduce someone to this work which recording would you demonstrate the work with?

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3897 on: November 09, 2017, 08:30:21 AM »
What is your favorite recording of Mahler's No. 2?  Basically if you were going to introduce someone to this work which recording would you demonstrate the work with?

1. Pierre Boulez, WPh, DG

2. Zubin Mehta, WPh, Decca

3. Michael Gielen SWRSO, Hänssler

4. Seiji Ozawa, Saito Kinen FO, Sony

5. Iván Fischer, Budapest FO, Channel Classics

See also the  below, where the reasoning for the above choices is given. Granted, it does not take into consideration some of the most recent M2s on the market, like Gergiev II, Stenz, Nott... (the latter two are v.good, generally speaking).


http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/06/gustav-mahler-symphony-no2-part-1.html


+



http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/06/gustav-mahler-symphony-no2-part-2.html


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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3898 on: November 09, 2017, 09:48:54 AM »
What is your favorite recording of Mahler's No. 2?  Basically if you were going to introduce someone to this work which recording would you demonstrate the work with?

I very much like VPO/Mehta on Decca.
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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #3899 on: November 09, 2017, 02:30:55 PM »
I don't own a Mahler 2. There was a blind listening a few years ago that never got completed, and so I have a 1st movement that I know I really enjoyed but no idea who the conductor and orchestra were.

Which is going to make picking a version to buy harder. It's going to have to match, to a fair degree, the qualities of that blind listening candidate even if it isn't the same performance. Hopefully I'll track it down in other people's top choices.
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