Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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elotito

#2960
June 15, 2013, 04:42:32 PM
Thanks Jay F, the Salonen recording is another one that I've heard both great things and not so good things but I will definitely check it out, sounds like it could be a winner. I was going to stay away from Bernstein, I was under the impression his recordings of Mahler were somewhat bloated but perhaps I should give them some consideration as well.
Why do there have to be so many choices for Mahler!

techniquest

#2961
June 16, 2013, 08:23:57 AM
I'm happy to second Jay F re. the Bernstein CBS/Sony recording; it really is excellent and well worth buying - the clarity and depth of the recording belies it's age.
I haven't heard the Salonen or MTT recordings so can't comment on them, but I would like to add Rattle/CBSO on EMI as another recommendation.

Parsifal

#2962
June 16, 2013, 08:51:00 AM
Quote from: elotito on June 15, 2013, 04:42:32 PM
Thanks Jay F, the Salonen recording is another one that I've heard both great things and not so good things but I will definitely check it out, sounds like it could be a winner. I was going to stay away from Bernstein, I was under the impression his recordings of Mahler were somewhat bloated but perhaps I should give them some consideration as well.

Berstein's second cycle on CD (released by DG) contains some very individual (some would say self-indulgent) performances but his first cycle on Columbia/Sony is more self disciplined and the most recent release has significantly improved sonics (due to going back to original session tapes).

kishnevi

#2963
June 16, 2013, 07:03:03 PM
Quote from: techniquest on June 16, 2013, 08:23:57 AM
I'm happy to second Jay F re. the Bernstein CBS/Sony recording; it really is excellent and well worth buying - the clarity and depth of the recording belies it's age.
I haven't heard the Salonen or MTT recordings so can't comment on them, but I would like to add Rattle/CBSO on EMI as another recommendation.

To show how opinions can differ:
the Rattle you like is my least favorite recording of M3.  I found it plodding and just plain boring.   I liked both Bernstein recordings, but neither one wowed me.  (But the remastered CBS set is very much worth getting.) Same for the MTT.  Don't have the Salonen.

My own favorite M3s are both relatively recent: Zinman/Zurich Tonhalle and Gergiev/LSO.

I'm not sure I would use the word "bloated" to describe Bernstein's DGG cycle,  but it's certainly a unique take--Scarpia's term "individual" is le mot juste--almost necessary to listen to so you can decide for yourself.  And my favorite M2 is Bernstein/DG.

At the moment, I'm listening to M1 from Ozawa/BSO, to finish up a first listen to Ozawa's cycle.  This is rather like Inbal--no performance is a top pick of that particular symphony, but there's not a bad performance (IMO) in the bunch.  I was not as impressed by Ozawa's Eighth as Jens is,  but I don't want to underrate it.  If anyone is considering the set,  I would say to go for it.

There is actually one performance in that set I would consider a top pick "reference recording"--Kindertotenlieder, with Jessye Norman.

DavidRoss

#2964
June 16, 2013, 08:02:01 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 16, 2013, 07:03:03 PM
To show how opinions can differ:
I love MTT's 3rd, love Lenny's on DGG (exquisitely indulgent), love Barbirolli's and Sinopoli's and all of Abbado's, like Salonen and Boulez and Kubelik and Gielen very much, and from the sturm und drang contingent, also love Bychkov and Horenstein. I even love Haitink's CSO recording. Zinman, however, leaves me cold and I haven't liked Gergiev at all in this repertoire. And I've no opinion regarding Rattie or Tennstedt, having acquired theirs belatedly just as my latest Maher obsession peaked and suddenly died. It may be years before I get around to them.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

kishnevi

#2965
June 17, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
Quote from: DavidRoss on June 16, 2013, 08:02:01 PM
I love MTT's 3rd, love Lenny's on DGG (exquisitely indulgent), love Barbirolli's and Sinopoli's and all of Abbado's, like Salonen and Boulez and Kubelik and Gielen very much, and from the sturm und drang contingent, also love Bychkov and Horenstein. I even love Haitink's CSO recording. Zinman, however, leaves me cold and I haven't liked Gergiev at all in this repertoire. And I've no opinion regarding Rattie or Tennstedt, having acquired theirs belatedly just as my latest Maher obsession peaked and suddenly died. It may be years before I get around to them.

Well, I seem to like Gergiev better than some other people, but even I think he's had more misses than hits with Mahler.  The only ones of his cycle I really like are the Third, the Sixth and the Seventh, and the Adagio from the 10th (which is coupled with his Second, not an outstanding performance), and possibly the First.   I actively dislike his Fourth--it might rank as the second worst Mahler recording I've ever heard.* Gergiev's  Fifth, Eighth and Ninth are solid performances but nothing more. (I think Jens thinks well of the Fifth, and almost nothing else in that cycle.)

The Haitink CSO is a good recording--I can understand why you like it,  but I'm simply not as enthusiastic about it. 

For me,  a good performance of the Third needs a strong beginning,  getting off on the right foot, so to speak,  with the opening march.  Gergiev and Zinman both to that, and Zinman in particular seems to make all the right choices from that point on.

*Of course, there are plenty of Mahler recordings I haven't heard, and the list of Bad Mahler Recordings is a very short one:

Starting with the worst one first
Rattle/CBSO Third
Gergiev/LSO Fourth
Abbado/VPO Second
Smithsonian Chamber Players--Chamber version of DLvdE, because I didn't really like the chamber version
Walter's Columbia Ninth, because it seems to have massive cuts inflicted on it
Bernstein's Berlin Ninth--because there seems to be an enormous among of audience noise (banging doors, coughing, etc.)
Levine's Salzburg Second--because of bad audio engineering relating to the placement of soloists, etc.

As you will see, three of the recordings get a fail from me for reasons not really under control of the performers.

jlaurson

#2966
June 17, 2013, 08:22:40 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 17, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
Well, I seem to like Gergiev better than some other people, but even I think he's had more misses than hits with Mahler.  The only ones of his cycle I really like are the Third, the Sixth and the Seventh, and the Adagio from the 10th (which is coupled with his Second, not an outstanding performance), and possibly the First.   I actively dislike his Fourth--it might rank as the second worst Mahler recording I've ever heard.* Gergiev's  Fifth, Eighth and Ninth are solid performances but nothing more. (I think Jens thinks well of the Fifth, and almost nothing else in that cycle.)

...and the Eighth, which I think is well served by St.Paul's (overly?) reverberant acoustic.

My Thirds of choice are, for different reasons, are Abbado/BPh, Boulez/WPh, and MTT/SFSO. Zinman's Third is one of the better of his set... and above average.

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/12/mahler-survey.html
Haven't gotten around to resurrecting (mhwaw!) the essays on the Third yet...

kishnevi

#2967
June 17, 2013, 08:48:42 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 17, 2013, 08:22:40 AM
...and the Eighth, which I think is well served by St.Paul's (overly?) reverberant acoustic.


True.  But in that case the credit should go to Wren and not Gergiev, shouldn't it?

However, if I can put recordings on the Bad List because of acoustics, than certainly this Eighth can go on the Very Good List for the same reason.

valtys

#2968
June 27, 2013, 08:43:46 AM
Quote from: elotito on June 15, 2013, 09:53:01 AM
I've read through dozens of pages on this forum, as well as loads of reviews, and I still can't decide on a 3rd.
I have Horenstein but I'm not really happy with the recording quality, I would love something a bit more modern. I have been thinking of Chailly or Honeck. Are there any other modern recordings (well recorded/good interpretation) that I should be considering. I was also looking at Litton but I read some mixed reviews of that ranging from terrible to one of the best ever so I don't know what to think about that one.

If you were thinking of the Chailly recording, do not hesitate to buy it. It is absolutely splendid. It may actually be my top choice right now. I grew up on Horenstein, Barbirolli, Kubelik and Bernstein's Sony recording, and felt like I had everything I needed for M3. But Chailly and Gielen have both surpassed all of those recordings for me. Gielen's first movement may be the best of that movement I've ever heard. Although taken as a whole, Chailly's slightly edges Gielen for me.

Roberto

#2971
July 14, 2013, 10:16:22 AM
I would recommend Inbal's Mahler 3rd on Denon CD but it is hard to find. Maybe the Brilliant Classics reissue is more available. I like that recording very much, I think it is the biggest gem of his Mahler cycle. The early Denon digital sound is also very lovely (although it is not so early since Denon makes digital recordings since '73).

brunumb

#2976
September 05, 2013, 08:03:18 PM Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 04:30:10 PM by brunumb
The 1950 live recording of Symphony No. 8 with Leopold Stokowski has been released on a number of labels including Music & Arts and Archipel.  This August, a new release appeared on the United Classics label:

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-Thousand-Stokowski-Conducts-Orchestra/dp/B00D2K1YLY/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1378439251&sr=1-2&keywords=mahler+stokowski

`

Does anyone know if there is any difference in the sound quality of these editions, and can you make a recommendation of which would be the preferred one to obtain?  Thank you.

knight66

#2977
October 02, 2013, 12:40:21 PM
I have just ordered the new Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde, Yannick Nézet-Séguin, LPO, Sarah Connolly, Toby Spence.

Connolly is getting wonderful notices for just about everything she sings. Toby Spence has recently recovered from cancer and I wonder if this is a calling card to suggest he is returned to his former terrific form. The Sunday Times likened his performance to that of Wunderlich. I hope that is true and not soft soap. But it may at least suggest that Spence's voice is in excellent health.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

jlaurson

#2978
October 05, 2013, 02:21:02 PM Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:23:50 AM by jlaurson


Gustav Mahler
Music of Gustav Mahler from between 1903 and 1940
Urlicht AudioVisual
German link - UK link
Not available in the US, currently.

The Mahler box, it is said, has distinct sonic improvements on all previous versions, includes material previously unavailable, brings together a comprehensive and complete collection from the period and backs it up with uniquely extensive notes by Sybil Werner. Curiously not distributed in Germany yet, as distributor claims insufficient interest.

knight66

#2979
October 10, 2013, 12:53:11 AM
Mahler: Das Lied von Der Erde Nezet-Seguin, LPO, Sarah Connolly, Toby Spence

Each time I review another Das Lied, I suggest that I have enough performances, yet, my decision is easily undermined. Somehow, I felt this would be special and it is. This is a live performance from Feb 2011. That is important to what you hear in a couple of ways. It was recorded before Toby Spence became ill. He is back to performing again, but I don't know whether he sounds as overwhelmingly healthy as here....I do hope so. The other significance is that being live and in very close up sound, the singers provide for the audience and the placing robs the dynamics of some of the marked ppp, or pp markings. But the performers are nevertheless obviously sensitive to the dynamics, though deliberately depart from them several times and as is obvious, this is a performance choice and perhaps some decisions are taken to 'make sure', not a slur, but sheer professionalism.

So, where is this performance on that continuum from the stoic approach of Klemperer to the heady opulence of Levine? It is more towards the latter, but less voluptuous. The orchestra playing is also very upfront and the soloists forward. I like this ventilated sound, the soloists from the orchestra, especially the woodwind sound as lovely as I have ever heard. The conductor is sane and accommodates the singers without indulging them. He is especially impressive during that compressed symphony in the final song, the funeral march clear, but the arc of the piece doing its work and taking us into the mists across that bridge. That hectic passage where the young men ride through the water is kept in superb control, so the singer and orchestra stay in harness, but it is not at all cautious.

Spence is plain out terrific, the voice is forward, open, ringing. I don't know just how big the voice is, but on the recording it is heroic and he pits himself against the wall of sound in the first movement. He does as well as just about anyone. There are brief moments of strain, but less so than with most who have recorded this work. I won't mention the usual comparators, it stands on its own as a satisfying performance. He has the verbal acuity of the other songs under his belt, though does not shade the tone colour much.

Connelly: What a completely beautiful sound, I have never heard her sound more lovely. It is rich, grave and even through the range. This is a highly detailed reading with nothing bland. I did notice that often at the end of phrases crotchets become minims, but this is live and the moments are taken and I see that as expression within the bounds of the art of performance. It is never done in such a way as to slow the music down at all.

That final song, the core of the work is half an hour of terrific concentration with considerable flexibility and is very moving. At many points I felt gooseflesh as the words were made to tell. This is a living, organic performance, not a cold distant delivery of the notes.

The close sound does not quite allow the final dissolve into nothingness, but this is one of the very best performances I have heard and I will be keeping it by me to mine it time and again.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.
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