Author Topic: Dvorak Tone Poems  (Read 9672 times)

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Offline Bunny

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2007, 08:24:10 AM »
Deliberate: Unhurried in action, movement, or manner See Synonyms at slow.
[third definition in dictionary.yahoo.com].
(actually it is used in baseball quite often, like a pitcher is deliberate in delivering the ball...but we've digressed)

What do you think of the Rattle/BPO set that got rave reviews from some circles?

Where? what circles.  Most of the reviews I read were pretty tepid about them.

Harry

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2007, 08:42:46 AM »
I didn't say there was anything wrong with the Kubelik recordings, indeed I like them a lot. The point remains however, that the Harnoncourt is exceptionally well recorded and worth mentioning if this is important to the original poster in deciding what to purchase.

Cool your boots man

I wasn't aware of hot heels Simon, but I know a thing or two about sound, and think the Harnoncourts recordings not that great! ;D

Harry

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2007, 08:45:17 AM »
Deliberate: Unhurried in action, movement, or manner See Synonyms at slow.
[third definition in dictionary.yahoo.com].
(actually it is used in baseball quite often, like a pitcher is deliberate in delivering the ball...but we've digressed)

What do you think of the Rattle/BPO set that got rave reviews from some circles?

What I heard of it, good.
But Rattle is not the kind of conductor that makes me glad.
I often think his interpretations soulless.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2007, 09:43:36 AM »
Where? what circles.  Most of the reviews I read were pretty tepid about them.

Classicstoday.com raves about it.

karlhenning

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2007, 09:48:27 AM »
I wasn't aware of hot heels Simon

Your pant-cuffs are smoking, Harry  8)

Harry

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2007, 10:15:59 AM »
Your pant-cuffs are smoking, Harry  8)

Yes I was wondering about that! ;D

Offline Bunny

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2007, 01:46:11 PM »
I wasn't aware of hot heels Simon, but I know a thing or two about sound, and think the Harnoncourts recordings not that great! ;D

I believe that two  those Harnoncourt recordings were live performances at the Concertgebouw.  The other two were with recorded with the orchestra in the studio.  I have them, and the sound is excellent, probably the best of what we are discussing, and that's not just my opinion.

Classicstoday.com raves about it.

Yes, the Hurwitzer gave them the 9/9 which isn't quite a rave, but only because Gramophone didn't like them.  Haven't you noticed that usually if Gramophone likes something by Rattle, Hurwitz does not, and vice versa?  The exception would be the Schubert 9th which Gramophone gave a tepid review to and Hurwitz loathed.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2007, 04:12:24 PM »
Gurn is right, Chalabala is the man. To hear it is to experience something absolutely unique.
Sui generis, as Ancerl's Glagolitic Mass or Talich's Dvorak 7 and 8 are. What's better, Supraphon has reissued it at mid-price :D

BorisG

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2007, 04:31:53 PM »
Gurn is right, Chalabala is the man. To hear it is to experience something absolutely unique.
Sui generis, as Ancerl's Glagolitic Mass or Talich's Dvorak 7 and 8 are. What's better, Supraphon has reissued it at mid-price :D

If one wants a good snooze, then choose Chalabala for the tone poems. Talich is more spirited.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2007, 04:56:23 PM »
Nonsense. Chalabala's are the creepiest of all. You can't achieve those effects at the speed Kubelik and Talich take.

BorisG

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2007, 04:59:00 PM »
Nonsense. Chalabala's are the creepiest of all. You can't achieve those effects at the speed Kubelik and Talich take.

I will meet you half way. Chalabala - creepiest and sleepiest.

Lilas Pastia

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2007, 03:06:26 AM »
Let's put it that way: Chalabala attends to the narrative and pictorial elements first and foremost. Other conductors treat those elements in an incidental way within a more 'classical' symphonic framework. I've known and loved these works for 30 years. My first disc of them was the Chalabala Supraphon lp with the gruesome greenish cover. It's held my attention and affection ever since. Others I have had over the years have never matched them. I also love Kosler and the Slovak Philharmonic even though the playing is not world class. They, too, linger on leitmotive and instrumental details. I think there's two distinct czech traditions at work here. Which should not come as a surprise. If you figure how Brahms or Beethoven were conducted 50-60 years ago, you encounter widely different points of view, each with their devoted following.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 01:00:18 PM by Lilas Pastia »

Don

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2007, 05:59:36 AM »
Where? what circles.  Most of the reviews I read were pretty tepid about them.

Concerning Rattle's disc, Fanfare said "little individual character"; that sums up most of the reviews I read.

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2007, 07:43:17 AM »
In addtion to Kubelik I have this one:


 
which is nothing similar to the Kubelik. Jarvi is more deliberate and lets the music unfold more. Kubelik is more wild and anticipates the excitement to come more. Depends on what you like.

I have and enjoy that one too - it's perhaps a less idiomatic and exhilirating approach than Kubelik, etc, to the extent that some people may consider it a little dull, but it's very good to my ears.

Note: I also have and love the Kubelik on DG Trio, but it didn't completely replace Jarvi in my listening once I purchased it, so I'm happy holding on to both.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 07:46:16 AM by Lethe »
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

BorisG

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2007, 12:20:50 PM »
Concerning Rattle's disc, Fanfare said "little individual character"; that sums up most of the reviews I read.

I could not grasp the Harnoncourt poems either. I thought he was more successful with the symphonies.

Even more distinction can be heard with Harnoncourt Beethoven overtures and symphonies. The symphonies again coming out on top.

Perhaps not as much care was given to the "smaller" works.

Can we say the Czechs are the most even throughout the Dvorak repertoire?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 12:22:32 PM by BorisG »

Online Brian

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2007, 02:12:53 PM »
Has Mackerras recorded the complete set? What is Supraphon waiting for? Get the man to record everything he can!!  >:( :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2008, 05:26:57 AM »
Thought that I'd bring this thread 'from the grave' - been a year, probably some new releases, and maybe more recommendations - these are always 'fun works' that many, including myself, have re-explored many times.  Over the years, I've heard the Kubelik, Jarvi, et al performances, but yet to listen to Chalabala, who seems to be touted as 'the tops' by some well respected viewers on this board!  :D

My current 'newest' version arriving just a few days ago is w/ Theodore Kuchar & the Janacek PO on the Brilliant label (3-CD set @ $12) - recorded in 2004; so far, these are youthful performances played w/ a lot of gusto, likely due to Kuchar's directing - probably not a bad start for the 'budget minded' - good review by Hurwitz HERE w/ a 9/8 rating; 4+* on Amazon.

So, comments or other recommendations - are the past recordings mentioned in this thread still the standards?  Thanks all!  :)


Offline FredT

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2008, 12:00:49 PM »
Kubelik's 3 cd box on DG is very good. The BRSO plays very well but one cannot help but wonder what Kubelik's results would've been if he had his beloved Czech Phil at his disposal.

Offline edward

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2008, 12:05:42 PM »
I recall that M gave a very favourable review of the CzPO/Neumann set. Anyone else heard it? I've got SOBR/Kubelik in these works and they don't quite convince me of the merits of the pieces.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Daverz

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Re: Dvorak Tone Poems
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2008, 08:03:19 PM »
I recall that M gave a very favourable review of the CzPO/Neumann set. Anyone else heard it? I've got SOBR/Kubelik in these works and they don't quite convince me of the merits of the pieces.

After Chalabala, the Neumann set seemed kind of superfluous (if we are talking about the "Garland" tone poems).  And the Neumann recordings on Supraphon were more resonant than I care for, disappointing after the excellent sound of the digital symphony set. 

 

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