Author Topic: Stravinsky's Agon  (Read 4773 times)

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BorisG

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2008, 10:08:03 AM »
Stravinsky has been neglected? I think not. What work has not been recorded?

Cherry-pick for yourself, and move on. Let's keep it moving, folks. $:)

Offline The new erato

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 10:19:50 AM »
Stravinsky has been neglected? I think not. What work has not been recorded?

Cherry-pick for yourself, and move on. Let's keep it moving, folks. $:)


To quote myself:

I think the late Stravinsky works are among the most neglected parts of ANY major, established composers work. Recordings by major artists on the big labels are very farbetween.

I didn't say thay hadn't been recorded. But when did you last see any new recordings of eg The Flood, Requiem Canticles or Abraham & Isaac from the major labels who frequently records Brahms, Beethoven, Bruckner....etc?

BorisG

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2008, 02:13:51 PM »

To quote myself:

I didn't say thay hadn't been recorded. But when did you last see any new recordings of eg The Flood, Requiem Canticles or Abraham & Isaac from the major labels who frequently records Brahms, Beethoven, Bruckner....etc?

I was not speaking to you directly, as much as the general air of this thread, but that is okay.

For the record, I do not care what label issues a work. Are some of us still crying the blues over what the former majors do? And calling them neglectful? That is silly. Time is better spent.

BorisG

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2008, 04:18:58 PM »
Ignore Boris's scribbles, you were perfectly clear the first time, if only "they" could lay off stuff like Beethoven & Mozart for a few years and concentrate more on 20/21 century music like the largely neglected 3rd period Stravinsky stuff which has some of his greatest....

You are unnecessarily insecure,  requesting that my scribbles be ignored. Remember, this is only a game. ;D

Offline The new erato

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2008, 10:36:44 PM »


For the record, I do not care what label issues a work. Are some of us still crying the blues over what the former majors do? And calling them neglectful? That is silly. Time is better spent.
Of course the majors aren't major any more, but they still carry some clout and prestige which carries a signal effect by what they release. And even the minors aren't very hot when it comes to late Stravinsky.

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2017, 09:43:05 AM »
Venzago???
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon LEINSDORF over ROSBAUD
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2017, 04:25:27 PM »
I have switched my allegiance from Rosbaud to Leinsdorf, based on the latter's quicker pace, and the fact that the recording itself betrays the groupings better than anyone else. I might have even gotten these two mixed up earlier, but now I'm advocating for Leinsdorf. You can hear most all versions on YT; though everyone is definitely conducting the same music, only an educated recording can bring out some of these relationships. You can't just record it in an auditorium as if it were a symphony...

Only Leinsdorf now gives me pleasure... in the music :P
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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2017, 06:50:41 PM »
Sirs, look to Gielen, posthaste.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2017, 07:20:20 PM »
I own several Agon recordings and I haven’t heard a bad performance yet.
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Offline Turner

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2017, 10:04:33 PM »
I own several Agon recordings and I haven’t heard a bad performance yet.

It´s a work where conductors at times phrase episodes markedly different.

I like Leinsdorf (stereo, very detailed also, in spite of its age), Atherton, Ashkenazy & an old stereo Robert Irving.
Stravinsky´s own and Mravinsky´s seem less precise and engaged to me.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 10:21:02 PM by Turner »

Offline opaquer

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2017, 10:40:46 PM »
The score is a fun read too!  ;)

Offline Herman

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 11:07:31 PM »
MTT's recording on "Stravinsky in America" is top-notch.


I have to agree on MTT; that's a lovely, witty rendering.

It's a very difficult piece to play right. The irony is that a ballet orchestra usually plays it better than a symphony orchestra, because the ballet orchestra has played it many times, whereas Agon for several reasons will never hit the stands of a symphony orchestra. (Let's face it: nobody's performing Stravinsky these days. Nobody. And if nobody does it's a big meaty piece like Sacre or Firebird. When is the last time a major violinist took Stravinsky's Violin Cto on tour? Why even try when people want Brahms, Tchaikovsky or Bruch?)

I once saw Gergiev conduct the Mariinsky orchestra (with the ballet troupe) in Agon, and since this is a piece they don't regularly do in Petersburg (maybe they do now, though) it was an messy performance. It had obviously been rehearsed with the piano, and most orchestra members (always a heavily rotated bunch) clearly had never seen or heard the piece before.

This may have been the problem with the Stravinsky-conducted performance.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 11:16:47 PM by Herman »

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2017, 07:56:34 AM »
I have to agree on MTT; that's a lovely, witty rendering.

It's a very difficult piece to play right. The irony is that a ballet orchestra usually plays it better than a symphony orchestra, because the ballet orchestra has played it many times, whereas Agon for several reasons will never hit the stands of a symphony orchestra. (Let's face it: nobody's performing Stravinsky these days. Nobody. And if nobody does it's a big meaty piece like Sacre or Firebird. When is the last time a major violinist took Stravinsky's Violin Cto on tour? Why even try when people want Brahms, Tchaikovsky or Bruch?)

I once saw Gergiev conduct the Mariinsky orchestra (with the ballet troupe) in Agon, and since this is a piece they don't regularly do in Petersburg (maybe they do now, though) it was an messy performance. It had obviously been rehearsed with the piano, and most orchestra members (always a heavily rotated bunch) clearly had never seen or heard the piece before.

This may have been the problem with the Stravinsky-conducted performance.

Frankly, my only quibble with the MTT is the acoustic, which makes one have to strain to hear the detail. None of you find it just a tad distantly mic'd? The same, moreso, goes with the Iwaki.

As for actual PERFORMANCE- yea, ok, but, so many of these Agons are recorded as it it were a Classical Symphony- at a slight distance- when a nice tight acoustic is what's needed to be able to hear things coming from different directions, and such.

No?
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Drasko

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2017, 08:27:50 AM »
When is the last time a major violinist took Stravinsky's Violin Cto on tour?

Isabelle Faust toured with it three, or maybe four, years ago. I thought it was a run-up to a recording, but that hasn't happened, yet.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2017, 10:05:40 AM »
Isabelle Faust toured with it three, or maybe four, years ago. I thought it was a run-up to a recording, but that hasn't happened, yet.

Now that would be fantastic. I wonder who’d be the conductor/orchestra?
"Music must be beautiful, or it wouldn’t be worth the effort” - Bohuslav Martinů

Online ritter

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2017, 10:55:37 AM »
When is the last time a major violinist took Stravinsky's Violin Cto on tour?
When Pierre Boulez visited Madrid with the London Symphony Orchestra in 1997 IIRC (on what I would suppose was a European tour), both programs given were centered around Elliott Carter, but each one had a concerto: Schoenberg's Piano Concerto (with Emmanuel Ax) and Stravinsky's Violin Concerto (with Maxim Vengorov). No recording originated from those pefomances either AFAIK.  :(
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 12:19:13 PM by ritter »
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon VOLKOV vs ASHKENAZY...... IWAKI????
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 08:43:16 AM »
Volkov/Hyperion
Ashkenazy/Decca

Comparing some of each... mmm... Volkov has great sound, but, again, I feel something is missing... Ashkenazy almost seems like a jumbled mess...Decca sound is the usual for this team, which is pretty good but seems... uh...




Does anyone else have Iwaki, and can confirm the atrociously distant mic'ing that seems to rob a good performance of its impact?
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon VOLKOV vs ASHKENAZY...... IWAKI????
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2017, 08:47:00 AM »
Volkov/Hyperion
Ashkenazy/Decca

Comparing some of each... mmm... Volkov has great sound, but, again, I feel something is missing... Ashkenazy almost seems like a jumbled mess...Decca sound is the usual for this team, which is pretty good but seems... uh...




Does anyone else have Iwaki, and can confirm the atrociously distant mic'ing that seems to rob a good performance of its impact?

Forget all of those performances. Have you heard Craft’s yet?
"Music must be beautiful, or it wouldn’t be worth the effort” - Bohuslav Martinů

Offline Herman

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2017, 11:25:11 PM »
That's twenty years ago.

When Pierre Boulez visited Madrid with the London Symphony Orchestra in 1997 IIRC (on what I would suppose was a European tour), both programs given were centered around Elliott Carter, but each one had a concerto: Schoenberg's Piano Concerto (with Emmanuel Ax) and Stravinsky's Violin Concerto (with Maxim Vengorov). No recording originated from those pefomances either AFAIK.  :(

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Stravinsky's Agon I WANT KNUSSEN!
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2017, 08:45:26 PM »
Forget all of those performances. Have you heard Craft’s yet?

Right here. Yea, ... I dunno... I've had it a decade... I just don't "like" it that much... I just don't think he's using the recorded space to separate the groups enough to here the bouncing around... and, he's reeeally quick in places, like others- I like MTT, but his sound is that Abbey Road Cavern that you have to crank-n-squint.

I will be concentrating on the Craft tho- it's one of the easiest to hear! (wwwwwhy does everyone record this piece at such a distance?? Only the early ones, Leinsdorf and Rosbaud, seemed to have engineers who knew what the do was. The Iwaki I got just was the most low wattage recording I'd ever heard... I need to recheck...


I want Knussen!
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