Author Topic: Bach's Cello Suites  (Read 62338 times)

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Offline king ubu

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #440 on: October 14, 2015, 11:17:51 PM »
Fascinating, thanks so much for sharing!

About bar 27 of the Courante (first example): what's the last note of the second group, D or E? As I'd read it (not being familiar with any of these hands but from these short excerpts) I'd say with Anna it's clearly a D, while with Keller, it's an E again (same as the second note of the group)?
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #441 on: October 14, 2015, 11:42:27 PM »
IIRC he went down this path after his second recording.



That's my impression too but I don't have the booklet to confirm. I'd also be interested if anyone has Wispelwey's III's booklet to see if he is influenced by the Anna Magdalena phrasing there, as I suspect.

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Offline jlaurson

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #442 on: October 14, 2015, 11:54:11 PM »
How've you got on with this? I listened to 2 last night - it's too lyrical and lightweight for me, like Bach cello suites for the cocktail bar.

Fell off the wagon for a bit, but will revive.

El Chupacabra

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #443 on: October 15, 2015, 01:59:47 AM »
The Menuet differences are substantial enough to suggest Keller represents a revision. I am not knowledgeable about the manuscript history, but is it possible Bach revised the suites at some point after Anna made her copy?
As far as my knowledge goes, there is no revision by Bach. The "Cothen Years" are known as "crazy in work tempo" that he left so many pieces incomplete because of lack of time.

what's the last note of the second group, D or E? As I'd read it (not being familiar with any of these hands but from these short excerpts) I'd say with Anna it's clearly a D, while with Keller, it's an E again (same as the second note of the group)?
You are right but there is no way to know.

That's my impression too but I don't have the booklet to confirm. I'd also be interested if anyone has Wispelwey's III's booklet to see if he is influenced by the Anna Magdalena phrasing there, as I suspect.
In general, it says for the III, because of the mystery, he sat down with John Butt of Glasgow University and Laurence Dreyfus of Oxford University and 'found plausible and playable solutions to a number of fascinating performance issues' of Anna's


I'm with Jeffrey: the minuet differences look more like a revision than a transcription error.

It might not be that simple as there are other details. For instance, including Kellner and Anna, the total of manuscripts from that century is four and lately they dated Kellner to 1726 and Anna to 1727. The pitch difference on the last picture is only on Anna's which chronologically makes the last note: E (kellner-bach alive)- natural B (anna- bach alive), E (Westphal-bach dead), E(Traeg item by an anonymous copier 1799-bach dead).

Anyway, when there is no composer-autographed score from 300 years ago you can speculate on everything. We even love to speculate on originals...so...I just wanted to give the gist of difficulties of authenticity.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:30:36 AM by El Chupacabra »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #444 on: October 15, 2015, 08:31:15 AM »
Yes all this is quite fun to read about for me, who never will actually have to play the things.

Anyway the bad news is that I started to listen to the new Haimovitz CD with no pleasure or interest whatsoever. I don't know whether it was my mood or whether he's really as uncharismatic as I felt.
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Offline Sammy

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #445 on: October 15, 2015, 05:32:23 PM »
Yes all this is quite fun to read about for me, who never will actually have to play the things.

Anyway the bad news is that I started to listen to the new Haimovitz CD with no pleasure or interest whatsoever. I don't know whether it was my mood or whether he's really as uncharismatic as I felt.

I'm of the same mind concerning Haimovitz.  That Prelude from the 1st Suite is about the worst I've ever heard - fast, gruff and choppy; even worse, I got zero feeling of any climax toward the conclusion of the Prelude.  Right after Haimovitz, I listened to the Beschi on Winter & Winter where the Prelude's ending has a great release of energy.

I did go on to listen to the remainder of the 1st Suite and also Suites 2 and 3.  Just seems like more of the same.

El Chupacabra

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Re: Bach's Cello Suites
« Reply #446 on: October 17, 2015, 06:01:56 AM »
Yes all this is quite fun to read about for me, who never will actually have to play the things.

Anyway the bad news is that I started to listen to the new Haimovitz CD with no pleasure or interest whatsoever. I don't know whether it was my mood or whether he's really as uncharismatic as I felt.

Sometimes following a score intimately and following a score makes a huge difference. I guess this youngster is confused by being involved with this music so closely for a large percentage of his life. I call these players 'churn-icians'.

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