Author Topic: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier  (Read 155618 times)

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Offline marvinbrown

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2007, 02:02:17 AM »
Haha.. good point.   ;D

You know what I meant though.... a piano version more faithful to the score.  ;)

  This whole argument of piano vs harpsichord seems to rear its ugly head very often and especially when it comes to Bach's keyboard works.  The Well-Tempered Clavier is not immune to this. I must admit that it always disturbs me when I come to buy Bach's keyboard music. There is always this nagging voice in my head that says that the piano is not a baroque instrument and the spirit of Bach's music is lost.  I do not know how I am going to get around this or if I ever can.  I find that Gustav Leonhart's harpsichord recording of the Well Tempered Clavier as baroque as one can get and as close to the spirit of these works as one can get.  Finally I would like to add that I do not have any recording of Bach's keyboard works on piano-not even the illustrious Glen Gould recordings of the Goldberg Variations on piano.   
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 03:46:01 AM by marvinbrown »

Don

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2007, 05:47:15 AM »
  This whole argument of piano vs harpsichord seems to rear its ugly head very often and especially when it comes to Bach's keyboard works.  The Well-Tempered Clavier is not immune to this. I must admit that it always disturbs me when I come to buy Bach's keyboard music. There is always this nagging voice in my head that says that the piano is not a baroque instrument and the spirit of Bach's music is lost.  I do not know how I am going to get around this or if I ever can. 

I know the feeling, but I don't believe that piano versions of Bach's keyboard music necessarily lose the spirit of Bach's music; it depends on the pianist.  For every piano version that is wayward, such as Bareboim's, there are many that I feel well reflect Bach's soundworld and emotional content.

Offline orbital

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2007, 06:05:25 AM »
Harpsichord: Gustav Leonhardt

Piano: Friedrich Gulda
Leonhardt is the only harpischord version I have, so I can't make comparisions there, but about Gulda.. I know it is highly revered, but I find it way too dry  :-[ I'd go with Feinberg (of similar mold) instead.

Don

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2007, 06:06:59 AM »
Leonhardt is the only harpischord version I have, so I can't make comparisions there, but about Gulda.. I know it is highly revered, but I find it way too dry  :-[ I'd go with Feinberg (of similar mold) instead.


Gulda can seem dry, but I think there's a wealth of emotional content below the surface.

SimonGodders

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 06:56:18 AM »
I'll add the third vote for Richter. SURPRISE!  ;D

Book one was remastered on RCA, but book two wasn't.  :'(

I've got the original four CD set, is the sound significantly better on the re-mastering George?

Will Bk2 have a release?

Steve

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2007, 07:03:33 AM »
I've got the original four CD set, is the sound significantly better on the re-mastering George?

Will Bk2 have a release?

I own the remastered edition, and found the sonics to be perfectly adequate. Of course, I haven't heard the originial.

George

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2007, 07:04:15 AM »
I've got the original four CD set, is the sound significantly better on the re-mastering George?

I haven't heard the original. My book 2 is an MP3 so I can't really compare.

Quote
Will Bk2 have a release?

That the $64 question. Why they did only one book makes NO sense to me at all. Perhaps the orangutans who run RCA will work this out at some point. Nah!

SimonGodders

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2007, 07:07:08 AM »
orangutans who run RCA will work this out at some point. Nah!

How offensive to Orangutans
 :-*

George

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2007, 07:12:09 AM »
How offensive to Orangutans
 :-*

 ;D

BTW, can I have a mini review of the Fienberg? Does he offer that different of take from Richter? Also, which transfer? Is the one on "Classical Records" decent? The price is a little steep IMO.

That's one thing I hate about this work. It's expensive to collect.

SimonGodders

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2007, 07:21:33 AM »
;D

BTW, can I have a mini review of the Fienberg? Does he offer that different of take from Richter? Also, which transfer? Is the one on "Classical Records" decent? The price is a little steep IMO.

That's one thing I hate about this work. It's expensive to collect.

Got a link for it George?

You're right, expensive stuff this WTC collecting! Been having a mosey around, the Schiff looks cheapish, but not sure I'ld like it that much. Would contrast nicely with the Richter though...

Offline orbital

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2007, 08:06:12 AM »
;D

BTW, can I have a mini review of the Fienberg?

Why have a mini when you can have a maxi  :D
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NonVocal/Klavier-WTC-Feinberg.htm
This coming from our own Don  :)

George

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2007, 10:10:06 AM »
Why have a mini when you can have a maxi  :D
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NonVocal/Klavier-WTC-Feinberg.htm
This coming from our own Don  :)

Thanks!  :)


Offline Maciek

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2007, 01:45:30 PM »
the flimsy thin undynamic harpsichord which sounds like skeletons copulating in a bisket tin...

LOL

Whatever ones thoughts re the harpsichord vs piano dilemma (I happen to prefer piano too), one has to admire the description quoted above... ;D

Maciek

Offline helios

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2007, 01:08:17 AM »
  This whole argument of piano vs harpsichord seems to rear its ugly head very often and especially when it comes to Bach's keyboard works.  The Well-Tempered Clavier is not immune to this. I must admit that it always disturbs me when I come to buy Bach's keyboard music. There is always this nagging voice in my head that says that the piano is not a baroque instrument and the spirit of Bach's music is lost.  I do not know how I am going to get around this or if I ever can.  I find that Gustav Leonhart's harpsichord recording of the Well Tempered Clavier as baroque as one can get and as close to the spirit of these works as one can get.  Finally I would like to add that I do not have any recording of Bach's keyboard works on piano-not even the illustrious Glen Gould recordings of the Goldberg Variations on piano.   

Well, I'm sure this argument has been had on here a 100 times (maybe less, maybe more), but I vastly prefer the piano's sound and have no doubt that, had the piano been available, Bach would have chosen to write for it instead of the Harpsichord.   I don't think any "spirit" is lost whatsoever on the piano - it's simply a superior instrument.

Then again, I've never been taken with the whole period instrument craze.

Don

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2007, 05:23:48 AM »
Well, I'm sure this argument has been had on here a 100 times (maybe less, maybe more), but I vastly prefer the piano's sound and have no doubt that, had the piano been available, Bach would have chosen to write for it instead of the Harpsichord.   I don't think any "spirit" is lost whatsoever on the piano - it's simply a superior instrument.

Then again, I've never been taken with the whole period instrument craze.

My view is that the piano is simply a different instrument and that Bach would have composed for both the piano and harpsichord. 

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2007, 08:19:09 AM »
a version on modern piano (not harpsichord) is the best way to experience this work....shines a whole new light on Bach's polyphonic genius that cannot be heard on the flimsy thin undynamic harpsichord which sounds like skeletons copulating in a bisket tin...

many of the great composers who proceeded bach learnt a great deal about composing from playing this work on the piano....i.e. mozart, beethoven, chopin, schumann, liszt etc etc etc

Mozart probably played it on a harpsichord, an instrument he was very familiar with.

George

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2007, 12:40:27 PM »
....unlike say Beethoven's keyboard works which were written very specifically to that instrument and it's resources/sounds and would be hard to re-create on other instruments, or sound convincing even.

They certainly sound convincing in the other direction (symphonies on piano), so I am not so sure that I agree with this point... :-\

Don

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2007, 12:42:14 PM »
yeah but Bach never really composed like that, he wasn't a "knight of the keyboard" as he famously said once, he didn't compose for the instrument specifically....he was more tapped into the very source, pure music in it's absolute form...consolidated from the great vocal polyphony that came before him, and thats how he wrote, that's why much of his music sounds good on pretty much anything and it quite easily tranferable, another reason why he's such a towering genius....

If it sounds good on "pretty much anything", why do you say disparaging things about the harpsichord?

George

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Re: Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2007, 12:54:20 PM »
im not talking about transcriptions liszt made of the symphonies, im more pointing to beethoven's sonatas, like the late ones for instance....

Those transcriptions certainly sound quite a bit like the original, suggesting that they aren't all that different from the original. If that is true, then this shows that his orchestral music works as a keyboard work. Therefore, I am having trouble seeing why the reverse wouldn't be true. Like say with the Hammerklavier for instance.

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