Author Topic: Debussy's Preludes  (Read 36251 times)

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Offline aukhawk

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #180 on: April 13, 2018, 12:44:36 AM »
I think that the Reflets dans l'eau from Rev is nice  -- it's the one on Hyperion -- I don't know if she recorded it for Saga  --

I offer you here (for a few days only) Livia Rev playing Reflets from the Saga recording. First half only.

[clip now removed]
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 08:17:08 AM by aukhawk »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #181 on: April 13, 2018, 03:25:21 AM »
It should still be on Symphonyshare.

I offer you here (for a few days only) Livia Rev playing Reflets from the Saga recording. First half only.

             Reflets

Thanks to both of you. I hadn't noticed that upload on symphonyshare so there's a lot for me to explore there. I remember being in a discussion with some people about the relative merits of Reflets dans l'eau as played by Rev and Michelangeli, and the real piano connoisseurs were adamant that Rev on Saga was "THE BEST"
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Baron Scarpia

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #182 on: April 13, 2018, 06:51:19 AM »
Listened to Preludes Book II by Aimard on DG.

A worthy effort, the recording, as I mentioned somewhere above, is from a rather distant perspective with generous reverberation.

There are some brilliant bits here, such as fireworks, but I find myself more drawn to the preludes which are playful and lively, and the distant perspective tends to blur the articulation in these pieces. I seem to be gravitating towards the less dreamy interpretations of this music, and Monique Haas and Thibaudet are working better for me now.

I have other versions to explore, but time to listen to something else, as I am experience prelude fatigue. :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #183 on: April 13, 2018, 07:03:32 AM »
Listened to Preludes Book II by Aimard on DG.

A worthy effort, the recording, as I mentioned somewhere above, is from a rather distant perspective with generous reverberation.

There are some brilliant bits here, such as fireworks, but I find myself more drawn to the preludes which are playful and lively, and the distant perspective tends to blur the articulation in these pieces. I seem to be gravitating towards the less dreamy interpretations of this music, and Monique Haas and Thibaudet are working better for me now.

I have other versions to explore, but time to listen to something else, as I am experience prelude fatigue. :)

You should listen to Jacobs’ recording (if you haven’t already). Kocsis, too, for that matter.
"Music should be able to invoke the natural emotions in all human beings. Music is not notes fixed on apiece of paper.” - Toru Takemitsu

snyprrr

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #184 on: April 13, 2018, 01:09:58 PM »
You should listen to Jacobs’ recording (if you haven’t already). Kocsis, too, for that matter.

broken record alert!!




lol, just teasin ya ;)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #185 on: April 15, 2018, 05:11:49 AM »
broken record alert!!




lol, just teasin ya ;)

 :P It’s true though! I’m starting to sound like one indeed.
"Music should be able to invoke the natural emotions in all human beings. Music is not notes fixed on apiece of paper.” - Toru Takemitsu

snyprrr

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #186 on: May 01, 2018, 06:21:27 AM »
Gulda 2018 :laugh:

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #187 on: May 04, 2018, 04:08:46 AM »
I listened this afternoon to Cortot's first recording of the preludes. I have a perfectly listenable transfer, on the Seon label, more than listenable, a pleasure to listen to.

I have to say that it's very good, performance wise.

It's fast. These things work well fast I'd say. They cohere.

Cortot makes them sound interesting harmonically and impressionisticlly. The near dissonances that Cortot reveals or creates are really very memorable, listen, for example, to the wind on the plain.

We have a bunch of musical picture postcards, the way Cortot plays them. Not romantic landscapes, thank gawd.

But what I like most is the energy of Cortot's vision. In Cortot's hands it's not music to squirm in your armchair to, while crying "oh how beautiful." It's music to dance to. Maybe an African tribal traditional dance to boot.

There's nothing hammerless about Cortot, all that talk about hammerlessness being a criterion of success in Debussy preludes is not the best way to see things. The west wind hammers - everyone knows that who's experienced it.

Cortot was what Cortot was, and so the next sentence is probably stupid. Who else plays Debussy preludes like Cortot? Or maybe better, if I like a Cortot and want more in that way, who else to listen to?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 05:55:26 AM by Mandryka »
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Baron Scarpia

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #188 on: May 04, 2018, 07:13:42 AM »
I listened this afternoon to Cortot's first recording of the preludes. I have a perfectly listenable transfer, on the Seon label, more than listenable, a pleasure to listen to.

I have to say that it's very good, performance wise.

It's fast. These things work well fast I'd say. They cohere.

Cortot makes them sound interesting harmonically and impressionisticlly. The near dissonances that Cortot reveals or creates are really very memorable, listen, for example, to the wind on the plain.

We have a bunch of musical picture postcards, the way Cortot plays them. Not romantic landscapes, thank gawd.

But what I like most is the energy of Cortot's vision. In Cortot's hands it's not music to squirm in your armchair to, while crying "oh how beautiful." It's music to dance to. Maybe an African tribal traditional dance to boot.

There's nothing hammerless about Cortot, all that talk about hammerlessness being a criterion of success in Debussy preludes is not the best way to see things. The west wind hammers - everyone knows that who's experienced it.

Cortot was what Cortot was, and so the next sentence is probably stupid. Who else plays Debussy preludes like Cortot? Or maybe better, if I like a Cortot and want more in that way, who else to listen to?

I don't see any indication that he recorded Book II of the preludes. Book I was recorded in 1930 and 1949.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090805113108/http://www.arbiterrecords.com/musicresourcecenter/cortdisc.html


snyprrr

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #189 on: May 04, 2018, 07:21:09 AM »
:P It’s true though! I’m starting to sound like one indeed.

I listened to some of the 'Images' Paul Jacobs disc,... maybe it was 'Estampes', I can't remember, but, well,... here's My Disclaimer:

when it comes to Nonesuch and Jacobs/Rosen/Kalish, the way the Nonesuch sound is always ... mm... "friendly"?? (dryish, soft, and pleasing, even in the most brutal Avant)... and the fact that I blur those three Pianists in my mind... I just came away with the "oh, this is Nonesuch Debussy"...

however, some Reviewers noted Jacobs's playing was "Moderne", as in 'non-idiomatic', which I certainly didn't really pick up on- the typical Nonesuch presentational sound is what I recall most...

huh. :-\

Just listening to Kocsis 'Pagodes' (I'm using Pagodes and going through Roge, JYT, Kocsis, Wissenberg, Jacobs, Gieseking, Samson, etc,... )... I just want a tiny bit more 'verb, bu :-\ , of course, I've always enjoyed the Kocsis/Debussy. I DID have that CD in 1993!!... always impressed with the Philips sound there, that may be why I'm on a piano tear right now??!!?

per 'Pagodes'- seriously everyone, there seems so little to choose from in this piece from performer to performer, that SOUND and ambience seem to become the main concerns for me. When the high notes indicate the top of the Pagoda, I want to hear enough "space" in those tinkles, without having the bass drowned in ambience. Sure, the player can balance the registers, BUT, come on, every millisecond counts here!!!

I know Roge is usually quite "recessed", but, mm, maybe I'm just responding to that typical Decca piano sound of the time. The only Debussy PM I have right now is half the Martin Jones/Nimbus set, and, for some things, it's just a TAB swampy. In the 'Nocturne' and 'Ballade', I like the swamp!!...makes it sound like 'Interviewwith A Vampire'...

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #190 on: May 04, 2018, 09:02:00 AM »
I don't see any indication that he recorded Book II of the preludes. Book I was recorded in 1930 and 1949.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090805113108/http://www.arbiterrecords.com/musicresourcecenter/cortdisc.html

Yes, that's right. His earliest Debussy preludes recording goes back to 1919 and he published a book on Debussy in 1922. I've not read it but I have read a doctoral thesis which discussed it, I recall that he justifies his interpretation partly on the basis of his acquaintance with Debussy's personality, even though his style differs substantially from Debussy's own performances on piano rolls. It's a potentially interesting area to explore and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the book - but I have other musical priorities right now.

I have no idea what his opinion was about Bk 2, for all I know he may never have performed it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:05:44 AM by Mandryka »
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Baron Scarpia

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #191 on: May 04, 2018, 09:09:29 AM »
You listened to the 1919 recordings? What release? I haven't come across it.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #192 on: May 04, 2018, 09:16:12 AM »
You listened to the 1919 recordings? What release? I haven't come across it.

No. The best discography for Cortot is here

http://lee.classite.com/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm#Debussy
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Baron Scarpia

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #193 on: May 04, 2018, 09:19:45 AM »
No. The best discography for Cortot is here

http://lee.classite.com/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm#Debussy

I see. I'll make a note to listen to the 1930 recording. May be some time, I'm sort of burned out on them.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:30:22 AM by Baron Scarpia »

Offline Daverz

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #194 on: May 04, 2018, 12:18:43 PM »
Rave review at MusicWeb for an early '50s recording by a pianist I've never heard of before, Hans Henkemans:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/May/Debussy_Henkemans_4829490.htm

It's also on the streaming services.

Offline Draško

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #195 on: May 05, 2018, 04:36:53 AM »
I listened this afternoon to Cortot's first recording of the preludes. I have a perfectly listenable transfer, on the Seon label, more than listenable, a pleasure to listen to.

I have to say that it's very good, performance wise.

It's fast. These things work well fast I'd say. They cohere.

Cortot makes them sound interesting harmonically and impressionisticlly. The near dissonances that Cortot reveals or creates are really very memorable, listen, for example, to the wind on the plain.

We have a bunch of musical picture postcards, the way Cortot plays them. Not romantic landscapes, thank gawd.

But what I like most is the energy of Cortot's vision. In Cortot's hands it's not music to squirm in your armchair to, while crying "oh how beautiful." It's music to dance to. Maybe an African tribal traditional dance to boot.

There's nothing hammerless about Cortot, all that talk about hammerlessness being a criterion of success in Debussy preludes is not the best way to see things. The west wind hammers - everyone knows that who's experienced it.

Cortot was what Cortot was, and so the next sentence is probably stupid. Who else plays Debussy preludes like Cortot? Or maybe better, if I like a Cortot and want more in that way, who else to listen to?

Francois, Meyer and Pollini are closest in what you are looking for, I think, though of course different from Cortot and one another in many respects, maybe Aimard here and there (I find him inconsistent), Michelangeli shares some traits but not all, Jacobs and Rouvier are more middle of the road but don't abuse the pedal too much.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #196 on: May 05, 2018, 08:36:10 PM »
Francois, Meyer and Pollini are closest in what you are looking for, I think, though of course different from Cortot and one another in many respects, maybe Aimard here and there (I find him inconsistent), Michelangeli shares some traits but not all, Jacobs and Rouvier are more middle of the road but don't abuse the pedal too much.

I have a recording of Bk 2 which Pollini made in 1974, a concert in Amsterdam, it's really very special, modern and abstract, fast and dissonant, incandescent,  and rather different from what he released last (this?) year on DG.
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Offline Draško

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2018, 01:46:00 AM »
That sounds very interesting. I quite like his recent book II on DG.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #198 on: May 06, 2018, 10:22:21 AM »
Rave review at MusicWeb for an early '50s recording by a pianist I've never heard of before, Hans Henkemans:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/May/Debussy_Henkemans_4829490.htm

It's also on the streaming services.

The problem with this set, or from what I have sampled, is the audio quality isn’t too good. Basically, it obscures the finer details and nuances that should be audibly present. So, it’s not a set I’ll buy, but if one isn’t worried about the sound, then the playing did sound rather good.
"Music should be able to invoke the natural emotions in all human beings. Music is not notes fixed on apiece of paper.” - Toru Takemitsu

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Debussy's Preludes
« Reply #199 on: May 06, 2018, 10:37:29 AM »
The only Debussy PM I have right now is half the Martin Jones/Nimbus set, and, for some things, it's just a TAB swampy. In the 'Nocturne' and 'Ballade', I like the swamp!!...makes it sound like 'Interviewwith A Vampire'...

Martin Jones’ set isn’t even in the lower echelon of great Debussyians for me. He’s never been a pianist I’ve flocked to anyway. When you have pianists like Jacobs, Kocsis, Michelangeli, Bavouzet, Blechacz, Egorov, Cassard, among others, why in the world would I even want to hear any more of Jones’ traversal of Debussy? Then there’s the Nimbus sound --- oh vey.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:42:13 AM by Mirror Image »
"Music should be able to invoke the natural emotions in all human beings. Music is not notes fixed on apiece of paper.” - Toru Takemitsu

 

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