Author Topic: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)  (Read 14308 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sef

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 400
Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« on: September 26, 2008, 09:27:47 AM »
I had just finished listening to Kurt Atterberg's 6th symphony in my car (from the complete symphonies box set - wonderful), and switched over to the radio, and heard something I didn't recognize. Not too strange I know, but what I heard was so intriguing that I had to go on to the radio's web site when I got to work to find out what it was. Anyway, it was Carlos Chavez Symphony No. 4. That surprised me, as it sounded quite late Romantic European I thought. Bottom line is that I enjoyed it. What do any of you think?
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 09:34:56 AM »
I had just finished listening to Kurt Atterberg's 6th symphony in my car (from the complete symphonies box set - wonderful), and switched over to the radio, and heard something I didn't recognize. Not too strange I know, but what I heard was so intriguing that I had to go on to the radio's web site when I got to work to find out what it was. Anyway, it was Carlos Chavez Symphony No. 4. That surprised me, as it sounded quite late Romantic European I thought. Bottom line is that I enjoyed it. What do any of you think?

Very fine music, indeed;  I greatly enjoy the Mata/LSO box of six symphonies . . . which is labeled "Complete Symphonies," but I read that there is a Seventh.  Haven't been able to find any information on the Seventh, at all, though.

Offline Sef

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 400
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 10:22:39 AM »
Very fine music, indeed;  I greatly enjoy the Mata/LSO box of six symphonies . . . which is labeled "Complete Symphonies," but I read that there is a Seventh.  Haven't been able to find any information on the Seventh, at all, though.
I put a hold on this box set at the local library this morning! That fact that it is currently out would seem to suggest that I am not the only one in my smallish town interested in this composer.
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

Offline jochanaan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4702
    • Musician, Music Instructor and Piano Tuner
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 01:37:19 PM »
...That surprised me, as it sounded quite late Romantic European I thought...
Interesting.  The only music by Chavez that I know is the Sinfonia india (#2?), and it's many interesting things, but doesn't sound either particularly European or very Romantic.  But composers have been know to change and mix styles. ;)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

Offline Sef

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 400
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 01:41:40 PM »
Interesting.  The only music by Chavez that I know is the Sinfonia india (#2?), and it's many interesting things, but doesn't sound either particularly European or very Romantic.  But composers have been know to change and mix styles. ;)
The first thought that came to my head was Shostakovich without the drama. Naxos describes his music as "highly distinctive use of crossrhythms, syncopation, irregular meter and colourful orchestration". I think I'd need to emphasize the late in late romantic.
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

Offline Dundonnell

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3599
  • Edmund Rubbra(1901-86)
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 01:43:55 PM »
(Should this thread be in the Composer Discussion Forum?)

I have never heard of a Seventh Symphony. The Chavez website doesn't list one-

http://www.chez.com/craton/musique/chavez/english.htm

Offline Sef

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 400
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 01:45:09 PM »
Interesting.  The only music by Chavez that I know is the Sinfonia india (#2?), and it's many interesting things, but doesn't sound either particularly European or very Romantic.  But composers have been know to change and mix styles. ;)
.... and the 4th Symphony is subtitled the Romantic!
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Carlos Chávez (1899-1978)
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 01:58:56 PM »
(Should this thread be in the Composer Discussion Forum?)

Probably!

Quote from: Dundonnell
I have never heard of a Seventh Symphony. The Chavez website doesn't list one-

http://www.chez.com/craton/musique/chavez/english.htm

I remember not turning up any other reference to it;  so I wonder if it is an erratum in the article on Chávez in the Harvard Biographical Dictionary . . . .

Offline Dundonnell

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3599
  • Edmund Rubbra(1901-86)
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 02:15:03 PM »
Must be something about seventh symphonies :)

I know that Camargo Guarnieri, the Brazilian composer, wrote at least six-BIS has released them and I have them all ;D  but I am sure that I read somewhere that he actually wrote seven and I can't trace a seventh either :(

Guarnieri btw was a fine composer and I actually think that his symphonies(and the piano concertos too) are both a lot more disciplined than those by his more famous countryman Villa-Lobos(though that wouldn't be too hard ;D ;)) but also more impressive!

Offline vandermolen

  • Silver Subscriber
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 15021
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 08:30:57 AM »
Great composer. Craggy and mysterious, reminds me of Havergal Brian. Favourites are the No 2 and No 4. I have the Vox box set. Must listen to No 6 which is highly regarded.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Sef

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 400
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 06:02:09 PM »
Great composer. Craggy and mysterious, reminds me of Havergal Brian. Favourites are the No 2 and No 4. I have the Vox box set. Must listen to No 6 which is highly regarded.
"Craggy and mysterious" is right up my street - hurry up and return that box set to the library!
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

Offline vandermolen

  • Silver Subscriber
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 15021
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 10:12:13 PM »
"Craggy and mysterious" is right up my street - hurry up and return that box set to the library!

Certainly not! I purchased it with my very own hard-earned money. There is a v good ASV CD too with the very craggy, Brian-like (IMHO) Sinfonia de Antigone (which I should have listed as one of my favourites) and Sinfonia India and Symphony No 4 (Cond. Enrique Batiz). A great starting point for investigating Chavez (CD DCA 1058). :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Daverz

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5317
  • You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down!
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2008, 11:44:52 PM »
Interesting.  The only music by Chavez that I know is the Sinfonia india (#2?), and it's many interesting things, but doesn't sound either particularly European or very Romantic.  But composers have been know to change and mix styles. ;)

The later symphonies are more neo-Classical.  Craggy is a good description.  The spirit of Beethoven's more difficult works came to mind when I heard them (though certainly not the sound of Beethoven).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 11:47:53 PM by Daverz »

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14630
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 12:34:33 AM »
I bought a disc of his three string quartets (played by the Quarteto Latinoamerica) and found very little of the adventureness of his orchestral music (which I admittedly tend to think occasionally turns more to mannerism than into very interesting music). Initially I fund the quite dull, after 3 listens I find them OK but not very original and communicative (that is, with little to say).

Offline Dundonnell

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3599
  • Edmund Rubbra(1901-86)
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2008, 10:16:17 AM »
On more careful examination of the Chavez website(linked above) I do see a Sinfonia for orchestra from 1918(when the composer was 20) and a Sinfonia Proletaria for chorus and orchestra 'Llamads' from 1934.

So one or either of these could count as a 'seventh symphony' :)

Offline Grazioso

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2324
  • Currently Listening to:
    notes
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 03:18:33 AM »
I've had the Vox box of the symphonies on my shelf for a few months, and this thread inspired me to break it out for the first time. I really enjoyed the Sinfonia India! It has a very distinctive New World sound, in part because of the way it draws on Native American melodies. It reminds me a bit of Revueltas, Copland, and the soundtracks of classic Hollywood westerns.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 04:16:03 AM »
On more careful examination of the Chavez website(linked above) I do see a Sinfonia for orchestra from 1918(when the composer was 20) and a Sinfonia Proletaria for chorus and orchestra 'Llamads' from 1934.

So one or either of these could count as a 'seventh symphony' :)

No, no;  according to the Harvard Biographical Dictionary, an actual no. 7, at a date later than no. 6 . . . I'll try to dig it up today or tommorow.

Offline Dundonnell

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3599
  • Edmund Rubbra(1901-86)
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 05:36:29 AM »
No, no;  according to the Harvard Biographical Dictionary, an actual no. 7, at a date later than no. 6 . . . I'll try to dig it up today or tommorow.

Well...he sure did write half of No.7 at least :)

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,871041,00.html?iid=digg_share

Offline epicous

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 562
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 09:21:18 PM »
He made the first steps of the 7th, but the score is no accessible.

Offline Dundonnell

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3599
  • Edmund Rubbra(1901-86)
Re: Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 03:46:41 AM »
He made the first steps of the 7th, but the score is no accessible.

Ah! Thanks for that information :)