Author Topic: Andre Jolivet  (Read 6835 times)

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Offline The new erato

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Andre Jolivet
« on: September 27, 2008, 02:26:46 AM »
I noticed that Andre Jolivet doesn't have his own thread.

I have had an old LP of Jolivets music for years, but haven't really listened to it for a few decades (!).

What started my interest was this disc:



bought about 6 months ago at a period were I tried to broaden my knowledge of violin concertoes. Of several concerts new to me, this stood out. Its slightly jazzy, deeply expressive and particular idiom made this not only a very good, but also a deeply rewarding and personal, concerto. From that experience, I decided to try for more Jolivet.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought this 4-disc set:



at a frankly quite ridiculous price from europadisc. I have listened to the first two discs, containing lots of concerto and concertante works, and have found the same playful, personal and slightly jazzy language with lot of interesting rhytms and fun use of percussion.

In a plethora of new discs arriving this autumn in some ways this has been the most interesting and impressive music I have listened to. I thought I never could listen to the Ondes Martenot again after the dreadful kitschy use of it in Messiaens Turangalila, but here I am actually enjoying its ethereal sound (talk about Music of the Spheres) and even smiling at its fun antics in the concerto for Ondes martenots. There's also some wonderful music for trumpet (not an instrument I usually enjoy a lot) and a superb cello concerto nr 1.

We need a thread for this fine composer. Anybody know these two discs:





?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 02:37:22 AM by erato »

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 04:00:17 AM »
Interesting that you should start a thread about Jolivet as he is one of two French composers I have been investigating this year-the other being Marcel Landowski.

I have bought the Harmonia Mundi cd of the Violin Concerto, the Erato 4-disc set, and the Timpani cd which you illustrate. The Timpani cd has the Symphonie pur cordes, 'Yin-Yang', Adagio, 'La Fleche du temps' and Andante(all for strings) but I must say that it was the least attrractive of the three purchases. I found the pieces dry and a trifle wearing to listen to in succession. Like yourself I was more impressed by the other discs.

I also bought a Solstice disc containing the 3rd Symphony(conducted by the composer in 1966), the Piano Concerto(from a 1968 radio broadcast) and the Cello Concerto No.1-the last duplicating the performance in the Erato box set. The symphony is a particularly violent work with 24 percussion instruments battering the listener. The piano concerto is also pretty dissonant and ferocious.

Of the two composers I do find Landowski's music much more to my personal taste! His Ondes Martenot concerto is a delightful piece.
Jolivet is certainly interesting but I could not listen to too much in one go :)

« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 04:02:46 AM by Dundonnell »

pjme

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 01:57:06 PM »
I've been fascinated by Jolivet's music for many years now. Surely, as with many composers his output is uneven, but much I find deeply expressive, serious, questioning...
Lucie Kayas wrote a good and up to date biography ( Fayard / Librairie Arthème) ,but that hasn't been translated yet. At the moment I think that the choral "Epithalame" is Jolivet's most recorded worK

The ( wild!)pianoconcerto was recently issued on a Maguelone disc - Pascal Gallet soloist/ Duisburg PhO/Darlington.



Isabelle Faust's version of the violonconcerto (Jolivet's last,finished work) is a major achievement.

There's also a performance (live) by Devy Erlih that is very impressive

Violin Sonata (1932)a [19:32]
Incantation (1937) [3:48]
Suite rhapsodique (1965) [17:42]
Violin Concerto (1972)b [37:59]
 Devy Erlih (violin); Manabu Sekiya (piano)a; Orchestre National, Marius Constant
rec. (live) Japan, 1991 (Violin Sonata); Château du Seuil, Aix-en-Provence, June 1977 (Incantation, Suite rhapsodique) and (live) Théâtre de la Ville, Paris, April 1975 (Violin Concerto)
 LYRINX LYR 242 [79:09]

Still,to fully understand Jolivet's stature as a composer we should have more, recent,well prepared  recordings ! THe (early) stringquartet, the ballet Ariadne, 3 symphonies, the cantata "Le coeur de la matière", Cérémonial for 6 percussion, "Songe à nouveau rêvé" ( soprano/orchestra), Mandala - Hymne à l'univers for organ, Suite en concert for flute and 4 percussion....

Jolivet's daughter Christine takes care of a website "Les amis d'André jolivet"  http://www.jolivet.asso.fr/ with plenty of information.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 03:09:26 AM by pjme »

pjme

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 01:27:37 PM »


Solistes; Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Française; Orchestre de l'Association des Concerts Colonne; Ensemble Madrigal; Dir. André Jolivet; Orchestre du Théâtre des Champs-Elysées; Dir. Ernest Bour
Collection : Les Rarissimes
Concerto pour flûte, Concerto no 2 et concertino pour trompette, Concerto pour piano, Andante pour cordes, Suite française, Rhapsodie à 7, Suite delphique, Epithalame




pjme

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 03:22:01 PM »


Cérémonial - ordered it at CD Universe.
I wonder how it will sound. It made a huge impression...25 years ago, when played by Slagwerkgroep Den Haag!

Peter

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 06:13:24 PM »

A couple of weeks ago, I bought this 4-disc set:



at a frankly quite ridiculous price from europadisc. I have listened to the first two discs, containing lots of concerto and concertante works, and have found the same playful, personal and slightly jazzy language with lot of interesting rhytms and fun use of percussion.


I also got that 4-disc set, from Berkshire Record Outlet (www.broinc.com).  Under $20. 

I had never heard Jolivet.  I knew, of course, that he was a member of that artistic cabal called La Jeune France, which also included the great Olivier Messiaen (or Olivier MESSIAEN, as it were).  I knew that, like Messiaen, he had written music for the antique electronic instrument called the Ondes Martenot. I like those martenotish ondes quite a bit, so any time someone resurrects one I want to at least give it a listen, and Jolivet's Ondes Martenot Concerto was on that behemoth set.

I have yet to take it all in, of course, but the Harp Concerto, the 1st Cello Concerto, Heptade for percussion and trumpet, and the Concerto for Ondes Martenot and Orchestra (that sound!) are all unique, all genius.

How I've missed Jolivet all these years I couldn't say.  Nice to know that there are still unearthed gems out there, even for someone who has explored music for 38 years;  there are still works that have the power to surprise, to captivate. To transport.  Absolutely fantastic.  Incroyable!


Offline The new erato

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 12:15:16 AM »

I also got that 4-disc set, from Berkshire Record Outlet (www.broinc.com).  Under $20. 

I had never heard Jolivet.  I knew, of course, that he was a member of that artistic cabal called La Jeune France, which also included the great Olivier Messiaen (or Olivier MESSIAEN, as it were).  I knew that, like Messiaen, he had written music for the antique electronic instrument called the Ondes Martenot. I like those martenotish ondes quite a bit, so any time someone resurrects one I want to at least give it a listen, and Jolivet's Ondes Martenot Concerto was on that behemoth set.

I have yet to take it all in, of course, but the Harp Concerto, the 1st Cello Concerto, Heptade for percussion and trumpet, and the Concerto for Ondes Martenot and Orchestra (that sound!) are all unique, all genius.

How I've missed Jolivet all these years I couldn't say.  Nice to know that there are still unearthed gems out there, even for someone who has explored music for 38 years;  there are still works that have the power to surprise, to captivate. To transport.  Absolutely fantastic.  Incroyable!


I too, need to digest, but there's no doubt, that there is REAL music in this set, written by an original voice,. BTW; if you like this, buy the Harmonia Mundi disc with the violin concerto. It's MANDATORY! $:)

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 05:11:01 AM »
Giving this a good old-fashioned bump! I just heard the violin concerto which is my first experience with this composer. Man, it is so strange! At first I was slipping into it expecting Romantic fare, which is sort of what I got at first (the disc came with a Chausson work before it, which aided this expectation), but this impression was gradually toyed with and then unraveled as the work went on. It mixes Romanticism with neoclassicism, expressionism, mild impressionism and all manner of strange stuff. It's still tuneful and accessable, not to mention a very fine work in its own right, but I was taken aback by all the influences so seamlessly consolidated.

From reading his Wikipedia article, his output seems rather potted (stylistically), but with that Erato box so cheap I figure there is no reason not to go for it. Thanks for making this thread! Hopefully some more Jolivet-heads might join in :)
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 04:28:10 PM »
Aren't his trumpet and flute ctos standard rep? They figure on many recital discs. The Erato set has always tempted me. Isn't he regarded as "the" flute composer of mid modern rep? Incantations?

I have his trumpet/organ piece (...something "baraco"?), very nice.

And his "Chant de Linos" is the most modern sounding piece for that most French of forces (flute, harp, SQ). It comes in a flute/piano version also, but the full version is quite piquant...and he has a little suite for, I think, flute, bassoon, harp, and maybe cello, called "Suite de Noel", or something Noel. I know, I know, I have to do everything from memory...but that piece is utterly delightful, as they say.

I remember some ctos were a bit bracing for me at the time.

Didn't think anyone would ever record his 1934 SQ (apparently on Timpani...how did I miss that?). I wonder how this compares with other 30s French SQs by Ibert and Roussel.

Landowski, Jolivet, Dutilleux, Ohana, and Constant...are there others in this "generation"? Obviously an alternative to Boulez and co.

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Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 04:54:06 PM »
You could probably add Henri Sauguet to that group. Jean Francaix-on the other hand-rather stands apart and might be regarded more as a composer in the Ibert tradition.

Strictly speaking, Ohana was actually a British citizen working in France ;D

Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 09:10:43 PM »
Strictly speaking, Ohana was actually a British citizen working in France ;D

Doh! :-X...still,... he's a Maurice! ;D
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 09:31:26 AM »
Wow, I'm the last poster?? ???...2009?? :'(



After getting the Sciarrino solo flute music, and finding that I really like endless, virtuoso flute music playing in the background, I realized Jolivet was going to be the man to see. Besides Rampal, does anyone have any recommendations for solo performers (no Concerto, please!).

I've been cultivating a list of Jolivet possibilities, and it seems from this thread, that the chamber route is the way to go. The flute/harp/+whatever combo seems to be his spiritual center, perhaps.

The Piano Sonatas' spiky ascerbicism(sic?,...haha) might appeal,... I'll have to investigate further. I definitely will be picking up the flute/perc and trumpet/perc pieces. He does seem to be stretching the instrumentation right up to the Boulez point, but still stays "this" side of Messiaen (meaning, more conservative).

Jolivet so much reminds me of the echt "Last Composer" style that exemplifies the Frenchies mentioned above, that ennui, 1950s, post-war searching. I particularly like these kinds of composers who seem to automatically add little jazzy bits (BAZimmermann comes to might,...very integrated) without drawing attention (maybe that's just the '50s?).

If I could find that Erato Box for $10 I'd get it! ;D

Anyone have any NEW thoughts on Jolivet?
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pjme

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 10:55:25 AM »
There are many more French composers from that period ( born ca 1910-1930) . We know hardly a thing about them...But, yes, there's French musique "beyond" Messiaen and Boulez.

The styles vary wildly, of course, and not all of them are in the Messiaen/Boulez-league. Jolivet's best works ( the ambitious ones - cello concerti, violinconcerto, Songe a nouveau rêvé for soprano & orch., Le coeur de la matière, the symphonies, Suite en concert for cello, Rhapsodie à sept, the two pianosonatas etc) are strong, individual, highly expressive and original compositions.



Gilbert Amy ( °1936)
Claude Ballif ( °1924)
Henry Barraud (°1900)
Jacques Bondon (°1927)
André Boucourechliev (°1925)
Pierre Capdevielle (°1906)
André Casanova ( °1919)
Jacques Castérède (°1926)
Charles Chaynes ( °1925)
Adrienne Clostre ( °1921)
Marius Constant ( °1925)
Alfred Desenclos ( °1912)
Yvonne Desportes (°1907)
Luc Ferrari (°1929)
Raymond Gallois -Montbrun (°1918)
Jean Pierre Guézec (°1934)
Jean Jacques Grunenwald ( (°1911)
Pierre Hasquenoph (°1922)
Jacques Dupont (°1910)
Betsy Jolas ( °1926)
Ginette Keller (°1925)
René Koering (°1940)
Alain kremsky-Petitgirard (°1940)
Maurice Leroux (°1923)
Alain Louvier (°1945)
Ivo Malec (°1925)
Luc André Marcel (°1919)
Jean Etienne Marie (°1917)
Paul Méfano (°1937)
Patrice Mestral (°1945)
Serge Nigg (°1924)
Tolia Nikiprowetsky (°1916)
Bernard parmegiani (°1927)
Michel Philippot (°1925)
Claude Prey (°1925)
Jeannine Rueff (°1922)
Louis Saguer (°?)
Pierre Sancan (°1916)
Patrice Sciortino (°1922)
Maurice Thiriet (°1906)
Antoine Tisné (°1922)
Alain Weber (°1930)
Pierre Wissmer (°1915)
Michel Zbar (°1942)

From Claude Rostand's 1970 Dictionaire de la musique contemporaine.

Peter






Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 07:18:54 PM »
There are many more French composers from that period ( born ca 1910-1930) . We know hardly a thing about them...But, yes, there's French musique "beyond" Messiaen and Boulez.

The styles vary wildly, of course, and not all of them are in the Messiaen/Boulez-league. Jolivet's best works ( the ambitious ones - cello concerti, violinconcerto, Songe a nouveau rêvé for soprano & orch., Le coeur de la matière, the symphonies, Suite en concert for cello, Rhapsodie à sept, the two pianosonatas etc) are strong, individual, highly expressive and original compositions.



Gilbert Amy ( °1936)
Claude Ballif ( °1924)
Henry Barraud (°1900)
Jacques Bondon (°1927)
André Boucourechliev (°1925)
Pierre Capdevielle (°1906)
André Casanova ( °1919)
Jacques Castérède (°1926)
Charles Chaynes ( °1925)
Adrienne Clostre ( °1921)
Marius Constant ( °1925)
Alfred Desenclos ( °1912)
Yvonne Desportes (°1907)
Luc Ferrari (°1929)
Raymond Gallois -Montbrun (°1918)
Jean Pierre Guézec (°1934)
Jean Jacques Grunenwald ( (°1911)
Pierre Hasquenoph (°1922)
Jacques Dupont (°1910)
Betsy Jolas ( °1926)
Ginette Keller (°1925)
René Koering (°1940)
Alain kremsky-Petitgirard (°1940)
Maurice Leroux (°1923)
Alain Louvier (°1945)
Ivo Malec (°1925)
Luc André Marcel (°1919)
Jean Etienne Marie (°1917)
Paul Méfano (°1937)
Patrice Mestral (°1945)
Serge Nigg (°1924)
Tolia Nikiprowetsky (°1916)
Bernard parmegiani (°1927)
Michel Philippot (°1925)
Claude Prey (°1925)
Jeannine Rueff (°1922)
Louis Saguer (°?)
Pierre Sancan (°1916)
Patrice Sciortino (°1922)
Maurice Thiriet (°1906)
Antoine Tisné (°1922)
Alain Weber (°1930)
Pierre Wissmer (°1915)
Michel Zbar (°1942)

From Claude Rostand's 1970 Dictionaire de la musique contemporaine.

Peter

oh, that's quite an exciting list! I saw the first two names, and I thought you were just gonna do the do,... but yea, that is some great food for thought.

I am really interested in the first two, and their discographies are woefully underfunded. I picture Ballif as Boulez with different hair issues, and Amy exists only in legend. Any insight? I know the Kronos did B's SQ3 or 4...

Perhaps Dutilleux and Landowski belong also?

Anyhow, thanks again! ;)
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Offline Benny

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 07:40:25 PM »
Sticking with the topic of Jolivet, he made some outstanding concerto music and my guess is that it's his greatest legacy. Three Erato LPs were issued in his hommage briefly after his death and they're all about his concertos
2 for trumpet, with Maurice Andre;
a suite and a concerto for flute, with Rampal;
a concerto for ondes Martenot, with Jeanne Loriot;
a concerto for harp, with Lily Laskine;
and 2 concertos for cello, with Navarra and Rostropovich.

Just look at the name of these artists and you realize that we're in the big league here.

He worked with the lesser known Paul Le Flem and with the better known Edgar Varese. Arthur Honegger wrote that Jolivet had "the primary gift essential to any writer or composer. In a substantial proportion of his works the entire man is present, with his gesture, his soul, his beliefs, his rituals -- even his very superstitions."

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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2010, 07:54:15 AM »
I just got a knock-out punch Jolivet 2-fer.

The first cd is a Virgin entitled "The Contemporary Trumpet" (Graham Ashton) which contains J's Heptade for trumpet and percussion (1974). This piece is pretty groovy, with J showing himself as a great percussion writer. One of the slow sections has some really high, and beautiful, trumpet writing. I didn't know the trumpet could sound like that!

The second cd is from ASV, called "Chamber Music", which includes Petite Suite (fl, vla, hrp), Fantasie-Caprice (fl, pf), Flute Sonata, Alla Rustica (fl, hrp), and his Flute Concerto No.2, the Suite en Concert, for flute and 4 percussionists! The Suite en Concert is a great companion to the trumpet piece. Jolivet just can't seem to help himself in writing ritualistic, mysterious, and searching music. There is a companion cd on ASV, which includes the other big pieces (Chant de Linos, Pastoreles de Noel), but, I think this is the one to have. Jolivet in a nutshell.

The Flute Sonata (1958) is really quite cool. Though I would put this squarely in the Hindemith, Martinu, Poulenc, Prokofiev camp (those being the four best known 20th century flute sonatas), and though Chant de Linos is J's ubiquitous flute piece, this Sonata has a rarified and mysterious sound that no one else has achieved. Though it "sounds" typically 1960s in it's cool and distant demeanor, no one else seems to have really gone this direction. I would like to hear a few more flute sonatas from this period to see if other composers went this route. This is really quite a sonata!

The Petite Suite sounds just like yer good ole French Impressionism, which works well with J's other piece, Pastoreles de Noel (fl, bs, hrp). This would work on any one of those chamber harp discs.

It now seems that I have all of J's chamber music with harp, and I'm going to use Jolivet as my secret weapon in this repertoire. He seems to be the last word in 20th century Frenchiness (without going the Messiaen/Boulez route).

So, check out the ASV disc,...mmm,...though I think I got the only used copy available. :-[ ::) Jolivet is surely worth your time and effort.



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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2010, 10:14:08 PM »
Just since Varese was right there,... Jolivet was Varese's only European student.
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 08:42:29 PM »
Just since Varese was right there,... Jolivet was Varese's only European student.

bump
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Offline snyprrr

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Re: Andre Jolivet: Jumpin' Jake Jolivet
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 06:36:16 AM »
Did a little Jolivet listening.

Violin Concerto - check out Faust on Harmonia Mundi- very sultry, from 1970s

Cello Concerto

Piano Concerto- fistfuls of metal meatballs, very pre-Boulez


I liked all the big pieces. Some of the Chamber Music seemed a bit intense and loud- there was an oboe disc that just hit my wrong frequency, but I have an ASV disc of music with flute that's really nice and cool. His solo flute works are probably what he's best known for, and are essential for anyone interested there.

I don't think there's a Jolivet SQ, but if there is, I'm sure it hasn't been recorded.

Anyone have any out of the way Jolivet? Frankly, that Erato Box gets more and more tempting.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Andre Jolivet
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 03:24:43 PM »
I've got the Erato set. Good stuff.
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