Topic: Winterreise

[Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich]

http://www.simonkeenlyside.info/Articles/Perform/Recital/20041019+WinterreiseMelbo.html

Oh, once again a disgustingly poor and blue background. Do people go to theater in order to suffer?

[Velimir]

Help me fill this gap in my collection!

I've been YouTubing and sampling here and there. Predictably, guys like Fischer-Dieskau and Quasthoff make a good impression. Somewhat to my surprise, I'm also really impressed by Christine Schäfer's version - sounds modernistic, almost like Schubert as filtered through Schoenberg.

Then there are versions for hurdy-gurdy, chamber orchestra, and God only knows what else. Please advise, you Schubertologists and Liederologists!

[Marc]

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau is a solid choice in this cycle, f.i. in his DG recording with Gerald Moore.
Personally, I've always considered the one with Christoph Prégardien very convincing. He's impressively accompanied by Andreas Staier on a beautiful sounding fortepiano.

[Antoine Marchand]

My favorite version:



The seasoned Max van Egmond is just perfect, but almost that important: the gorgeous fortepiano played by Penelope Crawford is a real and warm partner for him. A generous sample can be listened to HERE.

  

[mc ukrneal]

Tremendous choice here and many of them very good. I think the top chocies would be DFD (with Demus), Gura, Fassbaender, and Goerne (Hyperion). But you won't go wrong with Quasthoff, Pregardien (mentioned by Marc), Schreier, or Bostridge either. And I am forgetting some I am sure. I generally don't like the female voice for this one, so am not very familiar with it myself, but have heard good things (meaning Schafer).

[Sergeant Rock]

This is one of those threads where every version is going to be recommended, I fear    When I'm in the mood for Fischer-Dieskau, I turn to the version with Barenboim. But really, I prefer a tenor (the higher voice sounding more youthful than a baritone). Schreier and Schiff are, I think, incomparable.



I really like the Hans Zender orchestration too.




Sarge

[Velimir]

This is one of those threads where every version is going to be recommended, I fear   

OK...in view of that, what's a "safe," standard rec? (like, the one everyone can agree is the 2nd best, or something like that)

[Antoine Marchand]

OK...in view of that, what's a "safe," standard rec? (like, the one everyone can agree is the 2nd best, or something like that)

After that new definition I have crossed out my recommendation.   

[mc ukrneal]

OK...in view of that, what's a "safe," standard rec? (like, the one everyone can agree is the 2nd best, or something like that)

I would suggest something different. If you liked one that you heard or one of the named singers caught your eye - just go with that. This is a harder piece than most to pick a 'best' as there are so many variables: sound of the voice, articulation, stress, interpretation, etc. I love Goerne - I just love the sound of his voice (youthful soundings) and how he blends with the pianist (who is also excellent). But I can't argue with Marc's or Sarge's pick (for example) - they sing it wonderfully as well. Once you get to this point it is just a matter of preferance.

[Mandryka]

The Winterreise to get, in my opinion, is Schreier/Richter. I think  it is the greatest lieder recording ever made.

If you really want a baritone, then I think you should hear Hotter sing it. I prefer the second recording with Moore because I think it's  contemplative and introspective, which I like. But some people I know also cherish the first, often because they feel that it evokes a very personal response to the horrors of the second world war.

[Cato]

I would suggest something different. If you liked one that you heard or one of the named singers caught your eye - just go with that. This is a harder piece than most to pick a 'best' as there are so many variables: sound of the voice, articulation, stress, interpretation, etc. I love Goerne - I just love the sound of his voice (youthful soundings) and how he blends with the pianist (who is also excellent). But I can't argue with Marc's or Sarge's pick (for example) - they sing it wonderfully as well. Once you get to this point it is just a matter of preference.

Hans Hotter is always an all-around fave!   

If possible, a fascinating experience is to listen to the middle 3 of Fischer-Dieskau's performances, two with Gerald Moore in the 60's and 70's and one from 1979 or 1980 with Daniel Barenboim.

1963:

http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Winterreise-Great-Recordings-Century/dp/B00006I0DH/ref=sr_1_11?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1306595245&sr=1-11

1971 (or so it seems)

http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Winterreise-D-911-Dietrich-Fischer-Dieskau/dp/B000001G60/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1306595708&sr=1-13

1979/1980

http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Winterreise-Fischer-Dieskau/dp/B0000012ZU/ref=sr_1_36?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1306595070&sr=1-36

[Todd]

Somewhat to my surprise, I'm also really impressed by Christine Schäfer's version - sounds modernistic, almost like Schubert as filtered through Schoenberg.

I really enjoy Ms Schäfer's version, and agree that it is a more "modern" take.  But you really must get Fischer-Dieskau in this work.  Doesn't really matter which one I think, though his pairings with Gerald Moore are reliably good.  His version with Demus is darned good, too.

[mjwal]

I like the Zender orchestration, too, Sarge, though some have dismissed it. I don't know either of the Schreier versions - I shall obtain the one with Richter the next time I want to listen to a new version, because of Mandryka's fervent recommendation. I have never taken to F-D in this cycle, having imprinted on Hotter in the work. There are, by the way, two very similar early (1942 and '43) Hotter recordings with Raucheisen - the 42 Polydor version is better - making the one with Moore the 4th after the recording w/Schröter, which >I haven't heard. I like two versions with forte-piano, the very first - possibly - by Ernst Haefliger w/Dähler, and the more recent one by Prégardien w/Staier recommended by Marc.
My absolute favourite is a very historical performance recorded almost in the hour of Germany's defeat by Peter Anders w/Raucheisen, a searing performance. I think everyone should know this.

[springrite]

My absolute favourite is a very historical performance recorded almost in the hour of Germany's defeat by Peter Anders w/Raucheisen, a searing performance. I think everyone should know this.

What is your take on his 1948 recording (Cologne)?

[knight66]

Another vote for that fantasmagorical Zender homage. I love it, but it cannot be someone's first go at the piece. So for a classic rendition, almost any of those listed above, apart from Bostridge, I don't think he carries the legato lines properly.

Here is one not so far mentioned. A man who has a special way with words. He also has a superb partner in Gerold Huber.



Mike

[mjwal]

What is your take on his 1948 recording (Cologne)?

I had that on LP long before I managed to find the '45 recording, and only listened to it once. His voice has already hardened (from singing roles that overextended him, I believe), and there is something metallically marmoreal about it all as I remember (it's been 30 years if it's been a day. I'll dig the discs out and re-listen - watch this space) - little remains of the fluidity and control of vocal texture the younger Anders had in spades (in his early Mozart recordings, for instance).

[J. Z. Herrenberg]

Another Zender fan here. I heard his version on the radio during the 1990s, a live broadcast from the Holland Festival (iirc), and found it absolutely fascinating.


In the more 'regular' versions I love Hotter, Fassbaender and Fischer-Dieskau.

[Velimir]

Another Zender fan here. I heard his version on the radio during the 1990s, a live broadcast from the Holland Festival (iirc), and found it absolutely fascinating.

What specifically did Zender do to the piece? Is "composed interpretation" just a fancy term for "orchestration"?

[J. Z. Herrenberg]

What specifically did Zender do to the piece? Is "composed interpretation" just a fancy term for "orchestration"?

I think Sarge can tell you more precisely, because I only heard it once. But no, it isn't just an orchestration, though it contains one. It recreates the work, adding bridges between the songs, for instance (if I remember correctly!) It is a 20th-century re-imagining, showing (me) quite startlingly that Schubert's songs are also related to Kurt Weill's. Usually I don't like conductors/composers interfering with a work, but in this case I do, because Zender is faithful to the spirit of Schubert.

[knight66]

No, it is much more than orchestrated. A chamber orchestra is used with some percussion instruments. It is much longer in the Zender guise. The Hans Hotter version lasts 75 minutes, Zender's totals 90 minutes.

He provides extended introductions, for example in the first song, there is a long percussive introduction which creeps towards you evoking the step by step tramp of a long journey. The violin bow hits the bridge, a horn blares. It provides a chilly landscape and an apt setting for the singer. That song lasts over three minutes longer than it normally does. In the middle of 'Gute Nacht' he provides a violent discordant passage with the singer moving into declaimed sprechgesang.

In other songs he takes themes and provides interpolated orchestral passages between verses.

All this reads to me like he does violence to Schubert, but it works wonderfully and is clearly a reworking done out of love and admiration. He plays up the phantasmagorical aspects of Schubert's cycle evoking weather in all its violence, wind, storms rain. It has to be heard before it is dismissed.

The performance itself is virtuosic. Blochwitz has never sounded better or more engaged.

Mike