Author Topic: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!  (Read 131298 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12572
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #380 on: May 04, 2009, 07:51:18 AM »
At 58 I'm there as well.

Well, guys, I'm just past 60 y/o and I'll be buying 'reds' for near-term consumption or possibly ones that might improve over a 2-5 yr period @ the most!  ;D

I use to buy a lot of Vintage Ports, esp. in the 1970s & 80s, but my last purchases of that wine was in the early-mid 90s - still have a couple of cases left from the late 70s/80s, but plan to buy just LBV ones, if I get the urge -  :)

Lilas Pastia

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #381 on: May 07, 2009, 05:06:25 PM »
Last time I drank cru classés was when I was single. I recall the Gruaud-Larose (73?), Pontet-Canet and Léoville-Barton. Being very green in the matter I drank them as I bought them, so they weren't more than 3-4 year old, most probably missing 75% of their gustative value. Nowadays, 'regular ' Bordeaux are quite substandard (much inferior to many other soutwestern France AOC like Cahors or Saint-Chinian that go for 2/3 of the price). To get the real stuff of legends, one has to fork int the high 2-figures range - well, at least here. A 2004 Château Pontet-Canet, one of the lower grades among the 1855 classement, goes for over 100$, and a Léoville Las Cases goes for mid-3 figures  :P. . Who on earth would have the gall to pay such prices for a bottle of wine ?

Time to 'fess up: a lifelong dream of mine has been to drink a Château d'Yquem. Not the priciest of them all, but still way out of reach for my wallet. Has anyone ever had the chance to taste it ?

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14542
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #382 on: May 07, 2009, 08:04:22 PM »
A 2004 Château Pontet-Canet, one of the lower grades among the 1855 classement, goes for over 100$,
I actually have a couple of those and would guess I paid about 70 USD for them (in Norway).

Offline DavidRoss

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7590
  • Location: Northern California
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #383 on: May 08, 2009, 04:06:54 AM »
Time to 'fess up: a lifelong dream of mine has been to drink a Château d'Yquem. Not the priciest of them all, but still way out of reach for my wallet. Has anyone ever had the chance to taste it ?
Yep.  Not the nectar of the gods (that would be the '66 Léoville Las Cases or damned near any Margaux!), but pretty good if you like the sweet stuff.  Seems to me that I've had botrytisized Napa wines that are comparable.

Your tale of drinking young wines shortly after bottling reminds me of a sad, sad story, related by a friend who managed a high end wine shop back in the '70s.  The '70s had recently been released.  Some guy kept coming in every month or so and buying a case of Mouton Rothschild.  Turned out this rube was drinking the stuff!  (I had a '70 Mouton--the Warhol label--sometime in the early '80s; it was drinkable but still had a good ways to go.)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Lilas Pastia

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #384 on: May 08, 2009, 02:20:31 PM »
I love dessert wines. The latest I had was a stunning Muscat de Rivesaltes. Its nose (scents) fairly jumped at you, a heady mix of ripe fruits and flowers. In the mouth it had an almost explosive quality. At 15% alccol content, it's limit for drinking à la soif. With pâtés and nuts it was purrrrrfect.

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12572
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #385 on: May 08, 2009, 02:22:20 PM »
Last time I drank cru classés was when I was single. I recall the Gruaud-Larose (73?), Pontet-Canet and Léoville-Barton. ........

Time to 'fess up: a lifelong dream of mine has been to drink a Château d'Yquem. Not the priciest of them all, but still way out of reach for my wallet. Has anyone ever had the chance to taste it ?

Hi André - well, those classified Bordeaux growths that I listed previously are the LAST in my collection - I'm not planning to buy anymore; the prices are just outrageous (even if one might be able to afford a few!  Same w/ California cabernets) - now there are some 'bargain' reds from France that receive great reviews in the Wine Specatator, esp. from southern France, but the few that may be shipped to my area, I just can't bother searching - I can buy decent Australian, Northeast coastal USA, & Chile/Argentina reds at many of my local grocery stores for less than $20/bottle.

As to Ch. d'Yquem, I've never had the pleasure, although sometimes offered as a 'dessert' glass in a number of restaurants that I have dined, the $50-$60 for a couple of ounces dissuaded me -  ;) :D

Now, back in the 1980s, Susan & I fell in love w/ Sauternes (i.e. the 'real stuff' from Bordeaux) - for a number of years I bought 1/2 bottle 'futures' of many of the better Sauternes in the best years recommended (never any Ch. d'Yquem, just too expensive); I aged these wines for 5-10 yrs, and I must say that nearly all were absolutely delicious; the young oak & brotrytis flavors just meld together beautifully; the acidity must be maintained & the color darkens - these wines were just glorious, and I can imagine that the TOP of this heap would just add onto these flavors.  Most that try a 'young' inexpensive Sauterne from a lesser producer or vintage will just have absolutely no idea what these 'better' wines can offer w/ 10 yrs of age!  Dave  :)

Offline Sergeant Rock

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 22100
  • Location: Wine Country Germany
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #386 on: May 09, 2009, 02:21:12 AM »
Time to 'fess up: a lifelong dream of mine has been to drink a Château d'Yquem. Not the priciest of them all, but still way out of reach for my wallet. Has anyone ever had the chance to taste it ?

I bought a few bottles of the 1987 in the early 90s. I still have one left--along with several other cru classé Sauternes (left click to enlarge):



The only reason I could afford the wine was because '87 was not one of the great vintages (anywhere in Europe actually: rotten weather that year). The half bottles cost "only" 300 francs (about $50). Was it worth it? Definitely. I've tasted many late harvest/dessert wines (the Germans make fantastic sweet wine) but even in that off-year, the Yquem was special. To quote Robert Parker: "There is no other wine in the world like it, and there is no other luxury wine that can possibly justify its price as much as Yquem." The amount of sweetness and acid was staggering--huge amounts of both--but perfectly balanced; the taste of vanilla, oak and intense tropical fruit flavors mind-boggling.

Sarge
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:30:17 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14542
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #387 on: May 09, 2009, 02:25:51 AM »
News for you Sarge, I just came home from the Norwegian state monopoly with the following wines (mostly in 1 bottle quantities but a few 3packs as well):

Gau

Weil Kiedrich Græfenberg Riesling Kabinett trocken 07  240
Weil Kiedrich Turmberg Riesling trocken 05  299,90
Weil Riesling Spætlese trocken 07 265
Weil Kiedrich Græfenberg  Riesling trocken 07  396,20
Breuer Orleans Rudesheim 07 486
Breuer Terra Montosa 2007  232
Breier Berg Rottland Riesling 07 329
Kunstler Hockheimer Hølle GK Riesling 07 449,90
Künstler Hochheimer Hölle Riesling Auslese Trocken 2004  369,90
Künstler Riesling Hochheim Hölle 1. gewächs Trocken 2007 349,90
Künstler Hochheimer Stielweg Riesling "old Vines" trocken 2007  299,90
Kunstler Hockheimer Stielweg Riesling Spætlese trocken 99  269,90
Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Schlossberg 07 209,70
Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Kaisersteinfels 08 209,70

Hessen:

Wagner-Stempel Siefersheim Heerkretz 05   350
Wagner-Stempel Siefersheim Heerkretz 07   356
Wagner-Stempel Riesling trocken 07 148,50
Wagner-Stempel Siefersheim Riesling trocken 07 191,40
Wittmann Westhofen Morstein Riesling GG trocken 07   395
Wittmann Westhofen Morstein Riesling trocken 06   380   
Wittmann Westhofener Riesling trocken S 233
Kuhling-Gillot Quinterra Riesling trocken 07 145
Kuhling-Gillot Nierstein Riesling 06 199,90
Kuhling-Gillot Nierstein Oelberg Riesling 06 299,90
Keller Riesling trocken 2008 169,90
Keller Riesling von der Fels 2007 229,90
Freiherr Heyl zu Herrnsheim Nierstein Pettental Riesling trocken 06 319
Freiherr Heyl zu Herrnsheim Nierstein Pettental Riesling Spætlese trocken 04 279
Freiherr Heyl zu Herrnsheim Riesling trocken 07  159,90

Pfalz
Koehler-Ruprecht Kallstadter Saumagen Riesling Kabinett trocken 07   129,90
Koehler-Ruprecht Kallstadter Riesling Kabinett trocken 07   129,50 
Koehler-Ruprecht Kallstadter Saumagen Riesling Auslese trocken 07   149,50
Koehler-Ruprecht  Philippi Pinot Noir 01  267,30
Koehler-Ruprecht  Philippi Chardonnay 99  251,80
Burklin-Wolf Forster Pechstein Riesling 2001    399
Burklin-Wolf Ruppertsberger Gaisbøhl Riesling 2005  349   
Burklin-Wolf Wackenheimer Riesling Bøhlig 07 249,40
Reichsrat von Buhl Forster Pechstein Riesling trocken 07 300
Reichsrat von Buhl Forster Jesuitengarten Riesling trocken 07 300
Reichsrat von Buhl Deidesheimer Herrgottsacker Riesling trocken 07 178,80
Becker Spætburgunder 2007  189,90
Becker Spætburgunder “b“ 2007  264,90
Knipser Laumersheiner Kapellenberg Riesling Kabinett trocken 07  144,90

The numbers are Norwegian prices. We are gonna do several German tastings, including a Nahe tasting in the near future....

Offline Sergeant Rock

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 22100
  • Location: Wine Country Germany
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #388 on: May 09, 2009, 03:48:26 AM »
I'm familiar with all those vintners except Wagner-Stempel. Great wines! Becker's Spätburgunder is a favorite of mine (love the fox label  :) ). We don't often get to the Weingut--because it's located in Schweigen right on the border with France (Alsace), about a 45 minute drive-- but a restaurant in our area offers his reds.

That you bought some Wittmann and Keller Riesling is interesting. Their estates are very near us: Westhofen 8 km west, Flörsheim-Dalsheim 14. The vinyards in those villages were once thought to be substandard, not capable of producing great wine like the vineyards of the Rheinterrasse (those vineyards that lie close to the Rhine). Wittmann and Keller have proven that wrong...and decisively! I just wish their wine were cheaper! I can't afford to drink their best very often.

The Rheingaus you bought are among my favorites too: love the Riesling produced on the opposite sides of the area: in Rudesheim in the west; Kiedrich/Rauenthal in the east...not forgetting that southern island Hochheim. I really enjoy Künstler's hoch  8)

Have you had wine from the Kallstadter Saumagen before? We like to joke that we've often drunk Saumagen while eating Saumagen while sitting in the Saumagen (a beautiful place to picnic: the vineyard is actually shaped like a sow's belly  :D )

We haven't had a Knipser wine recently. He used to barrique all his wine, even the Riesling  :o  Let me know if you detect oak when you drink that Kabinett. 

Sarge
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 04:11:49 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14542
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #389 on: May 09, 2009, 05:03:09 AM »


Have you had wine from the Kallstadter Saumagen before? We like to joke that we've often drunk Saumagen while eating Saumagen while sitting in the Saumagen (a beautiful place to picnic: the vineyard is actually shaped like a sow's belly  :D )


Yes, often. Koehler-Ruprecht is a very interesting producer, doing the Burgundy "thing" with his wines (extended Fuder time, lees contact etc), and superb VFM. They age superbly. I visited in 97. I visited Mosbacher as well, I've drunk quite a lot of his Ungeheuer and Pechstein (a particular favorite) 2004s. I did the Sudliche Weinstrasse and stayed the night in Wackenheim IIRC before going on to Bad Kreuznach and up the Nahe.

Yes, very interesting what Keller and Wittman have achieved, I've had the occasional bottle (of 2004s I think) and they always impress greatly. 

Offline Bogey

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13495
  • Location: Colorado
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #390 on: May 09, 2009, 08:23:37 PM »


A glass tonight with dinner at a local restaurant. Both the wife and I enjoyed it, and she doesn't even like wine....until tonight.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Lilas Pastia

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #391 on: May 15, 2009, 02:24:44 PM »
I bought a few bottles of the 1987 in the early 90s. I still have one left--along with several other cru classé Sauternes (click on thumbnail):



The only reason I could afford the wine was because '87 was not one of the great vintages (anywhere in Europe actually: rotten weather that year). The half bottles cost "only" 300 francs (about $50). Was it worth it? Definitely. I've tasted many late harvest/dessert wines (the Germans make fantastic sweet wine) but even in that off-year, the Yquem was special. To quote Robert Parker: "There is no other wine in the world like it, and there is no other luxury wine that can possibly justify its price as much as Yquem." The amount of sweetness and acid was staggering--huge amounts of both--but perfectly balanced; the taste of vanilla, oak and intense tropical fruit flavors mind-boggling.

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge, that confirms some comments I've read. I'll start a savings account to afford a bottle before the year ends !

Papageno

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #392 on: May 15, 2009, 03:43:04 PM »
+

Brünnhilde forever

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #393 on: May 17, 2009, 04:55:42 PM »
Enjoyed this week's issue of The New Yorker and an article of interest to all wine consumers here at GMG.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/18/090518fa_fact_goodyear

I think I'll stay away from low budget California wines even more than I did before reading the article.  :(

Offline MishaK

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3775
    • Tonic Blotter
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #394 on: May 17, 2009, 05:19:20 PM »
Nowadays, 'regular ' Bordeaux are quite substandard (much inferior to many other soutwestern France AOC like Cahors or Saint-Chinian that go for 2/3 of the price). To get the real stuff of legends, one has to fork int the high 2-figures range - well, at least here.

That's not necessarily the case. You should check out some of the Bordeaux cru bourgeois. There are some excellent values to be found there for well under $25 per bottle. E.g. Chateau Barreyres, Chateau d'Arcins or Chateau Plagnac.

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12572
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #395 on: May 18, 2009, 09:15:14 AM »
Enjoyed this week's issue of The New Yorker and an article of interest to all wine consumers here at GMG.

I think I'll stay away from low budget California wines even more than I did before reading the article.  :(

Yep, Fred Franzia and his Two Buck Chuck have been in the news since the wine was orginally released by the 'outspoken' Franzia - I've never sampled the wine, so cannot vouch for its taste or value at that price!

But, I must say that his statement that no wine should cost more than $10 surely must strike a nerve for many of us who are frequent puchasers and consumers of various vinous products -  :D

I also feel that the escalation of prices for many wines that I use to buy at 1/5 or 1/10 their current costs is outrageous in general and certainly in today's economy - one of the best examples for me are the California Cabernets, of which I use to have a large collection & purchased at reasonable prices, but no longer - in fact, I now have more South American Reds than those from California.  I guess my only 'splurge' wine these days are the Oregon Pinot Noirs (in which I'm willing to spend up to $30 a bottle, and even these are becoming rarer!).

Although I do not plan to consume any $2 Chuck in the near future, the $5-$10 wine market is certainly of great interest to many seeking value in their wine budgets!    8)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 09:43:32 AM by SonicMan »

Brünnhilde forever

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #396 on: May 18, 2009, 09:26:10 AM »
Thanks for your reply, Dave!

I still get my Kiona Lemberger at $9.99 a bottle, minus a 10% discount at the checkout if I buy more than 4 bottles! I am still searching for North Italian, that is: South Tyrolean wines, especially any Lakrein Kretzer. Should you find any, I'll take them all!  ;D

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12572
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #397 on: May 18, 2009, 09:55:46 AM »


I still get my Kiona Lemberger at $9.99 a bottle, minus a 10% discount at the checkout if I buy more than 4 bottles! I am still searching for North Italian, that is: South Tyrolean wines, especially any Lakrein Kretzer. Should you find any, I'll take them all!  ;D

G'day Lis - you know, I still have not had a Lemberger wine!  :-\

But out of curiosity, just looked a little for info on $2 Chuck line of wines; below (left) are some of the white & red offerings - not sure if these are still being offered at that price or whether the bottle pricing has escalated to $3?  Note - Charles Shaw is the brand name for this wine; and below (right), Fred himself @ the bottling line! Dave  :D

 

Brünnhilde forever

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #398 on: May 18, 2009, 10:19:57 AM »
And that's how the artist Ralph Steadman at The New Yorker sees him! It's so hilarious, I want to share it with you.

bwv 1080

  • Guest
Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #399 on: May 18, 2009, 06:12:17 PM »
Was up in the bay area last week and had this zin at a business dinner:



Great wine, but very unique - lacks the fruityness of most zins, the description below fits pretty well:

Quote
Deep red. Deep, musky aromas of dark fruits, mocha, tobacco and cracked pepper, lifted by sweet spices; this reminded me of Howell Mountain fruit. Sweet, creamy and deep, with a peppery lift but a complete absence of hard edges. Not a fruity style but nuanced and interesting. Finishes quite long, with suave tannins.


http://morrellwine.com/product_descr.php?pid=172064&source=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=productfeed&utm_campaign=frooglefeed