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Author Topic: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)  (Read 46550 times)

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Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2007, 08:08:59 AM »
I have heard the dull I Musici, that's it. I love the Goebel, though and haven't wanted to look elsewhere.

Lucky you!  I have a very low threshold of boredom. :(

But lucky me!  I've heard more wonderful recordings and performances. :D

George

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2007, 08:13:10 AM »
Lucky you!  I have a very low threshold of boredom. :(

But lucky me!  I've heard more wonderful recordings and performances. :D

that's the key isn't it? Knowing what you like.

Offline Xenophanes

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2007, 01:01:21 PM »
The nicest Brandenburg Concertos set I have heard is with Karl Ristenpart and the Chamber Orchestra of the Sarre, Nonesuch H-73006, 2 LPs.  It is available in a CD set along with the Suites and other works, but for some reason, the Brandenburgs seem to be in mono.

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Oeuvres-pour-orchestre-Ristenpart/dp/B00004XROP/ref=sr_1_1/104-7564307-3333512?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179691891&sr=1-1

On CD, I still just stick with Pinnock. There is a 2-CD incarnation with the Orchestral Suites (which I haven't heard), but I can certainly recommend the Brandenburgs.

http://www.amazon.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Brandenburg-Orchestral/dp/B0000057D8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7564307-3333512?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179692472&sr=1-1

I don't really have an outstanding set of the Orchestra Suites.  Goodman is well-recorded.

Now, for the violin concertos, there is really only one for me: Francescatti (and Pasquier) with Baumgartner and the Lucerne Festival Strings.



That particular issue doesn't seem to be current but there is another one, but the picture is as pretty:

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Concertos-violon-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00004VEOM/ref=sr_1_2/104-7564307-3333512?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179693091&sr=1-2

I have to go make some salad, so I'll stop here.

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2007, 02:06:51 PM »
that's the key isn't it? Knowing what you like.

Well, I know what I like; in fact I like many things, and am always open to new experiences. :D

The Mad Hatter

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 12:57:36 AM »
I fell in love with Britten's recordings of the Brandenburgs. I can't listen to them by anyone else now.

hornteacher

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2007, 03:11:17 AM »
For the solo violin concertos, surprise surprise, my choice is:


Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2007, 08:15:07 AM »
I've edited my post wrt to the violin concertos.  Apparently, I must have been suffering a senior moment and possibly I was also fooled by the fact that the album on my ipod wasn't tagged correctly.  I've put in the correct album, and will soon correct the tagging on my ipod.  Sincere apologies for my error.  Btw, I also turned up an old copy of the Harnoncourt violin concertos which I'll be listening to later today. As I haven't even thought of that recording in years, it should make for interesting listening. :)

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2007, 08:16:20 AM »
For the solo violin concertos, surprise surprise, my choice is:




That's really a very good album.  I certainly enjoy it.

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2007, 09:00:59 AM »
I like Jordi Savall's take on the Brandenburgs

I like Savall in the orchestral suites as well. It's a matter of fact, i have yet to encounter a Savall recording that i didn't like. Sometimes i feel like i'm alone in this...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 06:18:47 AM by Josquin des Prez »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2007, 01:45:41 PM »
For the Orchestral suites I would recommend:

English Concert / Trevor Pinnock (Archiv) -his first recording released with the also recommendable Brandenburgs on a 3CD set.

La Petite Bande / Sigiswald Kuijken (DHM)

Linde Consort / Hans Martin Linde (EMI)

Musica Antiqua Köln / Reinhard Goebel (Archiv)

Academy of Ancient Music / Christopher Hogwood (L´Oiseau Lyre)


For the complete Harpsichord concertos:

English Concert / Trevor Pinnock (Archiv)

Academy of Ancient Music / Christopher Hogwood (with Christophe Rousset)(L´Oiseau Lyre)

Concerto Copenhagen / Lars Ulrik Mortensen (only solo concertos so far) (CPO)


For the Violin concertos (the a-minor and E-major and the double conc. d-minor):

La Petite Bande / Sigiswald Kuijken (DHM)

Robert King Ensemble / Robert King (Hyperion)

Orchester of the Age of Enlightenment / Elisabeth Wallfish (Virgin)


All above are informed performances. A very recomendable HIP style performance played on modern instruments is the Naxos 8 CD set with all the Bach instrumental music played by Cologne chamber orchester / Helmut Múller-Brühl.  Most of this is so stylish played, that you forget the modern instruments. As a matter of fact many of the performers belong to the HIP-movement (Robert Hill, Michael Behringer, Karl Kaiser et.c.)
Exceptionally good is also the recording of the Violin concertos by Suwanai (Philips) - also modern instruments and HIP-style.

As to the Brandenburgs the choice between Alessandrini and Fasolis is simple for me, -Alessandrini without any trace of doubt.

Que, you may copy and post my Brandenburg list in this thread, if you want.





hornteacher

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2007, 02:41:57 PM »
That's really a very good album.  I certainly enjoy it.

My obvious favoritism aside, I agree.  The sound is crystal clear and I like the brisker than usual tempos (tempi?) on the fast movements.

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2007, 06:27:13 PM »
Premont,

I was looking at the Wallfisch V/Cs earlier today; the sound clips sounded very good.

Offline rubio

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2007, 09:16:15 PM »

Que, you may copy and post my Brandenburg list in this thread, if you want.


Yes, please do that.  :)
“One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain” Bob Marley

Offline Que

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2007, 10:39:34 PM »
Que, you may copy and post my Brandenburg list in this thread, if you want.

Here it is! :)

Premont's list for the Brandenburg concertos - in chronological order:

Konzertgruppe der Schola Cantorum Basiliensis / August Wenzinger / Archiv (LP only 1950-53) Partially played on period instruments but the playing style is not, what we think of as HIP to day, but rather informed compared to the time of recording.

Südwestdeutsches Kammerorkester, Pforzheim / Friedrich Tilegant / Eurodisc (LP only rec. ca 1961) "Preauthentic". Tilegants first Brandenburg cycle.

Pro Musica Orchester, München / Kurt Redel / Erato (LP only rec,1962) "Preauthentic", Redels second Brandenburg cycle.

Saarländisches Kammerorkester / Karl Ristenpart / Accord rec.ca 1965 "Preauthentic", Ristenparts second Brandenburg cycle.

Dutch soloists ad hoc / Gustav Leonhardt / Sony rec.1977 HIP. A rather weak trombaist in no 2 (Claude Rippas) but the other soloists are in top (Sigiswald Kuijken, Franz Brüggen, Paul Dombrecht among others).

Linde Consort / Hans Martin Linde / EMI rec.1982 HIP

The English Concert / Trevor Pinnock / Archive rec.1982 HIP

La Petite Bande / Sigiswald Kuijken / DHM rec.1994 HIP

Combattimento Consort, Amsterdam / de Vriend / Chall rec.1996 Modern instruments but HIP style

Freiburger Barockorchester / Gottfried von der Goltz / TDK DVD rec.2000 HIP
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 04:29:17 AM by Que »
À chacun son goût.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2007, 11:10:23 PM »
my Brandenburg list (an imaginary one only at this point) will have to include this recording:



rec. 1965-67 (only a bit later than Harnoncourt's first attempt)

full list of soloists here :

Erich Penzel, Gert Seifert (natural horn)
Helmut Hucke (oboe)
Franzjosef Maier (violin, violino piccolo)
Hans-Martin Linde (traverso, recorder)
Guenter Hoeller (recorder)
Edward H. Tarr (clarino trumpet)
Ulrich Koch, Guenter Lemmen (viola)
Gustav Leonhardt (harpsichord)

Tarr probably recorded the first great original-instrument B2.  Leonhardt
was already the inimintable himself then, turning in a graceful yet lithe
solo in B5.

The overall concept of orchestral balance adopted here is similar to Diego Fasolis's
2007 version - B1, B2 and B4 are considered true "concerti grossi" where the
repieno section can be sizeable, but B3, B5, B6 are seen as "concerti di camera,"
played mostly one-to-a-part.  Rather "informed" for the 1960s, I'd say. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:23:16 PM by fl.traverso »
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2007, 08:23:07 AM »
Bunny, maybe Denon has been fiddling with it (if it's the same recording?)
On the DHM issue the recording with Kuijken (from 1981) is clean, without distortions (as far as I can tell), though a bit more "bare" / less opulent than presentday recordings.

Q

I pulled the recording out, and I still have to say that it's sq is dated.  Recording technology has changed quite a bit since this one was made, not the least of which is the move to HDCD and SACD, both of which have warmer sound that's closer to analog than this has.  Perhaps the DHM sound is different, but I think it's probably the same.  Denon was the ultimate word in recording technology and sound quality back then.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2007, 09:45:32 AM »
Was Kuijken's JSB VC recording ever released on the Denon label?  Can anyone post a picture of its cover?  I asked because my memory tells me that DHM recordings were always released in Japan by JVC Victor until they got bought out by Sony with the rest of the BMG group.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 10:44:46 AM by fl.traverso »
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2007, 05:26:35 PM »
Was Kuijken's JSB VC recording ever released on the Denon label?  Can anyone post a picture of its cover?  I asked because my memory tells me that DHM recordings were always released in Japan by JVC Victor until they got bought out by Sony with the rest of the BMG group.

I will have to find the recording (again as I seem to have mislaid it).  I have it listed in my computerized catalog as Denon/WEA (Warner, no less) which downloads the album information automatically from the various amazon stores.  Sometimes there are errors in the listings which then end up being errors in the catalog.  Usually the information is accurate, but there have been mistakes on occasion.  If I recall correctly, at one time DHM was also a division of EMI, so perhaps my copy was on EMI rather than Denon. Then again, perhaps Denon and EMI were also once associated.  There's been so much merger, takeover, acquisition, etc. with the big music companies that sometimes it's hard to keep track of everything.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2007, 06:41:15 PM »
I will have to find the recording (again as I seem to have mislaid it).  I have it listed in my computerized catalog as Denon/WEA (Warner, no less) which downloads the album information automatically from the various amazon stores.  Sometimes there are errors in the listings which then end up being errors in the catalog.  Usually the information is accurate, but there have been mistakes on occasion.  If I recall correctly, at one time DHM was also a division of EMI, so perhaps my copy was on EMI rather than Denon. Then again, perhaps Denon and EMI were also once associated.  There's been so much merger, takeover, acquisition, etc. with the big music companies that sometimes it's hard to keep track of everything.

EMI is mostly associated with Toshiba in Japan, but Toshiba and Denon (Columbia) have always been two distinct companies.  So was Denon ever associated with EMI?  Unlikely.
It is true, though, that quite a few DHM recordings were for some time published by Toshiba-EMI.  The Schroder/Immerseel Beethoven Vn Sonatas, for example, and I recall Kuijken/LPB recordings of Geminiani Op.3 and Rameau Hippolyte et Alicie Suite in that incarnation also.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Bunny

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Re: Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2007, 07:20:12 PM »
EMI is mostly associated with Toshiba in Japan, but Toshiba and Denon (Columbia) have always been two distinct companies.  So was Denon ever associated with EMI?  Unlikely.
It is true, though, that quite a few DHM recordings were for some time published by Toshiba-EMI.  The Schroder/Immerseel Beethoven Vn Sonatas, for example, and I recall Kuijken/LPB recordings of Geminiani Op.3 and Rameau Hippolyte et Alicie Suite in that incarnation also.

Well, I'm still looking for the dratted recording.  I had in my hands yesterday and today pfft!  Vanished.  It's probably right under my nose but for some reason I don't see it.  How annoying to know that something is here, but not where I expect to find it (and 2 other recordings I listened to yesterday as well. >:( ).  It will show up and then I'll see what the label is exactly; and  make corrections to my catalog data if necessary.  In any event, I still have the music on my ipod so at least I can listen to it again.  No way to properly assess sound quality on the ipod, though.  I need the speakers for that.

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