GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: techniquest on June 23, 2007, 02:00:24 AM

Title: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: techniquest on June 23, 2007, 02:00:24 AM
OK, one of the most done-to-death opening sections, but the rest of it is really rather fascinating. With such large forces though, and so many recordings, it's difficult to know which one to go for. I need to hear all the percussion (including the tam-tam), I need audible tubas, expressive soloists and a choir that sounds big and together.
I have the old Ozawa recording on RCA on vinyl which is wonderful, and the Hickox / LSO recording on CD (Regis) which I'm not struck with so I want to replace the CD.
Has anyone heard the new Marin Alsop recording on Naxos?
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:05:08 AM
I have Jochum on DG which I like...to the extent I like the piece at all. I did have the Previn on LP a long time ago and thought it was excellent.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: PSmith08 on June 23, 2007, 02:08:10 AM
I've always stuck with the "composer-authorized" (though, what that means I do not know) Eugen Jochum recording on DGG (1968). In fact, despite being nearly forty years old, I think the Jochum version remains a first choice in some circles. Some folks seem pretty taken with Thielemann's version, but I've never tried it out, never having been much of a fan of his. It might, with its good (I can only assume, being relatively recent DGG, though that's not always a guarantee) sound and solid forces, be the ticket.

I have Jochum on DG which I like...to the extent I like the piece at all. I did have the Previn on LP a long time ago and thought it was excellent.

Mike

Always beating me to the punch.  :D
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:09:55 AM

Always beating me to the punch.  :D

I assure you...no...often I don't post because you said it before me.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: PSmith08 on June 23, 2007, 02:12:04 AM
I assure you...no...often I don't post because you said it before me.

Mike

Thanks for that, but I've already resigned myself to knowing that Ben Folds was right, "There's Always Someone Cooler Than You."  :'(  ;D

Ahem...well, how 'bout that Orff?  ;)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: M forever on June 23, 2007, 02:13:15 AM
OK, one of the most done-to-death opening sections, but the rest of it is really rather fascinating. With such large forces though, and so many recordings, it's difficult to know which one to go for. I need to hear all the percussion (including the tam-tam), I need audible tubas, expressive soloists and a choir that sounds big and together.
I have the old Ozawa recording on RCA on vinyl which is wonderful, and the Hickox / LSO recording on CD (Regis) which I'm not struck with so I want to replace the CD.
Has anyone heard the new Marin Alsop recording on Naxos?

Naaah, forget all that stuff, a lot of people don't get the subtle humor and all the many fine details in the score, and many don't get the complex phrasing right either. Not even close. It's all just lalala and blareboombang where Orff wrote extremely close and sensitively to the text.

What you need to listen to is Jochum's recording on DG with Janowitz, Fischer-D and the Deutsche Oper forces, recorded in the late 60s, but still sounding rather fresh. This is about as idiomatic and authentic as it gets. Few other performances even approach that.
The only one I can think of that may even be better in some aspects, is, to my total surprise, Wand's live NDR recording (on Profil - Edition Hänssler). Because Wand always came across in that rather strict, schoolmasterly way, I had a really hard time picturing him conducting Carmina Burana, but I was proven totally wrong by that stupendous, lively, very witty, differentiated and detailed performance, recorded live in the 80s but in very good, immediate sound.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:17:16 AM
I know it is fashionable to be sniffy about the piece, but I believe there is good reason for that. I loved it when I was a kid, but learning the choral part and yelling through a number of performances has put me right off it. My feeling is that it would be more engaging if the strophic movements were all cut down by at least one verse. There is fun to be had with it, and some beautiful things in it. But it has been pretty much ruined for me.

Mike

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: M forever on June 23, 2007, 02:25:52 AM
but learning the choral part and yelling through a number of performances has put me right off it

See, that's exactly what I meant when I said "don't get the subtle humor and all the many fine details in the score, and many don't get the complex phrasing right either. Not even close. It's all just lalala and blareboombang where Orff wrote extremely close and sensitively to the text". Thanks for illustrating my point so vividly.

Not Carl's fault, though.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:30:23 AM
Well, I will leave it for you to somehow contact Previn, Pritchard and several lesser conductors and you can explain it to them; as they to a man encouraged the maximum sound out of the orchestra and we had to shout some sections to be heard. Pritchard in particular, normally a very musical musician, drove it headlong at max speed in the Tavern scene.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: PSmith08 on June 23, 2007, 02:33:16 AM
To be fair, De temporum fine comoedia is - to me - more compelling and interesting than Carmina Burana. Orff really showed that he was more than a one-trick pony with De temporum, and - between the two - I return to the later work more often. There is a benefit, also, to De temporum not having had its opening and concluding movement played to death. In fact, were "O Fortuna" played merely to death, it would be a shade better a situation than the current one.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: david johnson on June 23, 2007, 02:34:11 AM
R. Frühbeck de Burgos / Philharmonia is the best.

dj
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: M forever on June 23, 2007, 02:40:53 AM
Well, I will leave it for you to somehow contact Previn, Pritchard and several lesser conductors and you can explain it to them; as they to a man encouraged the maximum sound out of the orchestra and we had to shout some sections to be heard. Pritchard in particular, normally a very musical musician, drove it headlong at max speed in the Tavern scene.

Mike

I have Previn's WP recording but can't remember right now how it is. I think it is pretty good, but then he also has the Arnold Schoenberg Chor, so that direct comparison would be unfair.

"In taberna" is a good example. Some sections are meant to be noisy and "headlong", after all, it's "in taberna" - that means "in the pub", but not the kind of pub you know, a medieval pub which was probably much noisier and which probably also smelled much worse. Although I have been to some pubs in England which smelled pretty bad, too. But that's a different story.

But in any case, it's a good example because that short number contains a ton of tempo and sudden gear changes, a lot of it is actually meant to be very p and hushed, a lot of fine detail which, indeed, many interpreters miss and dash and yell through it. Yelling and dashing is OK towards the end, though. Again, listen to Jochum or Wand to see how it goes. And again, thanks for illustrating my point so vividly.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Tsaraslondon on June 23, 2007, 02:45:12 AM
R. Frühbeck de Burgos / Philharmonia is the best.

dj

If only for Lucia Popp's divine singing!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:47:28 AM
The Previn recording was excellent and detailed, it can be balanced carefully in the studio. However, the problems live seemed to me to be a combo of the conductor being in an unfamiliar hall and not taking much trouble to establish the acustics and the seeming need to highlight the orchestra and tell the singers to produce all possible sound. One trumpet can blot out a large chorus.

No matter how fast parts of it should go, there is no point if the words cannot be articulated. We were no slouches, only working with the big names, some of whom stipulated in their contracts that when coming to perform, at least one concert was to include the chorus.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 02:49:45 AM
I saw a telecast of Ozawa with Kathleen Battle and that was good, especially when it came to her melismatic phrases, she and Ozawa conspired to stretch them them to infinity, she had the technique to cope with it and it made for a spinetingling moment, authentic or not. I don't know if it is available on DVD.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: M forever on June 23, 2007, 03:20:34 AM
I once sat through a performance with Ozawa conducting the BP and a Japanese choir, and it was boring as hell. It was pretty obvious neither Seiji nor the choir had much of a clue what the texts are actually about...
I am pretty sure it didn't have Battle, though. That would have been nice. But it had Gruberova and Hampson, and they were very good, too, especially Hampson. But still, the whole performance was not very...interesting. At least it was really loud, courtesy of the BP, but that brings us back to my earlier point, it's not at all only about the blareboombang. Philips recorded that performance, but I never listened to the CD, for obvious reasons.

No matter how fast parts of it should go, there is no point if the words cannot be articulated.

Completely agree. That's why you should listen to the Jochum recording. The clarity of articulation of the choir is excellent. And, like I said, the musical detail shaping and phrasing is outstanding, too - maybe you will "rediscover" the piece. I know it can get too much, I played it so often in orchestras, I literally knew the bass part from memory. It's actually a lot of fun to play, but it can get too much at some point. But after several years, I also "rediscovered" the piece, and still enjoy listening to it. But not all the time.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: knight66 on June 23, 2007, 03:41:45 AM
I have the Jochum and wish I had been fortunate enough to have him take me through it. As to Ozawa, I have to be honest and say that Battle is absolutely the only element I can recall about it, it is quite possible the rest of the performance was under characterised.

Mike
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Marc on June 23, 2007, 09:54:10 AM
If only for Lucia Popp's divine singing!

Say no more; though I do not have that one.
But I do have the Ponnelle DVD, with the Munich 'Rundfunk Team', Lucia Popp, John van Kesteren and Hermann Prey, conducted by Kurt Eichhorn.
Watching that film, it's back to the Middle Ages .... the Seventies again! ;D
It's fun, and of course Lucia Popp is in great form! Well, Prey and Van Kesteren aren't bad either, I admit. ;)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Tsaraslondon on June 23, 2007, 10:35:35 AM
Say no more; though I do not have that one.
But I do have the Ponnelle DVD, with the Munich 'Rundfunk Team', Lucia Popp, John van Kesteren and Hermann Prey, conducted by Kurt Eichhorn.
Watching that film, it's back to the Middle Ages .... the Seventies again! ;D
It's fun, and of course Lucia Popp is in great form! Well, Prey and Van Kesteren aren't bad either, I admit. ;)

This is a clip from it, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVNYXOBWJA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVNYXOBWJA)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Brewski on June 23, 2007, 10:59:50 AM
I've heard the Jochum recording and it's excellent, but my two favorites are with Muti and the Philharmonia, and the more recent one with Blomstedt and the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.  The latter, especially, has great energy and is superbly recorded. 

Yes, the work has suffered from overexposure (e.g., use in television commercials) but all one has to do is hear it live to be seduced once again.  Like Strauss' Also sprach Zarathustra, there is much pleasure in the score beyond the opening few pages. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Holden on June 23, 2007, 11:38:38 AM
The earlier Previn (for EMI) is excellent. He gets the tempos spot on and the work of choirmaster Arthur Oldham with his massed choral groups from the LSO (and the boys from ST Clement Dane School) is also commendable. As soloists Thomas Allen stands out as does the crystal clear tones of the underrated Sheila Armstrong. Previn also did a later version which is nowhere near as good.

The other choice I'd suggest is Ormandy/Philadelphia on Sony for many of the reasons listed above.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Marc on June 23, 2007, 02:36:22 PM
This is a clip from it, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVNYXOBWJA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVNYXOBWJA)

Yup.

Beautiful comment on that page from a YouTube user: Lucia, Lucia you live forever in my heart.

I have a very old-fashioned telephone dial Internet-connection though (that's because I am very old-fashioned), so downloading the clip wasn't really worth a try. No prob of course, I have the DVD.

Other recordings of the Carmina Burana I both have and like:
Jochum, Deutsche Oper Berlin (has been mentioned before)
Kegel, RSO Leipzig [LP!] (one of the first classical LP's I bought, still a favourite)
Chailly, RSO Berlin (fresh!)

But I'm not really a Carmina collector. Sometimes I think: I should get the Kegel on CD, but then I forget about it, and buy another recording of Bach's Johannes-Passion. ;D
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Greta on June 24, 2007, 06:44:50 AM
Quote
The Previn recording was excellent and detailed, it can be balanced carefully in the studio. However, the problems live seemed to me to be a combo of the conductor being in an unfamiliar hall and not taking much trouble to establish the acustics and the seeming need to highlight the orchestra and tell the singers to produce all possible sound. One trumpet can blot out a large chorus.

The Previn I have is live, on DG from 1994, the WP with the Arnold Schoenberg Chor. I didn't realize he had recorded this twice. Yes, as M said it is pretty good, an exciting performance, but I had a few quibbles I remember, sometimes the sound is a bit harsh and the inner parts aren't always clear.

This disc has a funny story attached, I bought it because we were playing a transcription in band, I was 14, and it was the first DG disc I ever bought. I knew "The Yellow Label" was quite prestigious in classical and it was the most expensive one, so I figured it must be the "best"!  ;D

I'm seeing this live next year and want to get another, one with more clarity. I will definitely look into the Jochum.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Daverz on June 24, 2007, 07:20:53 AM
Second vote for de Burgos, but make sure you get the latest version on the EMI budget label, earlier versions had sibilant distortion.

And welcome back, Michael!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: MDL on June 26, 2007, 05:09:54 AM
I have Jochum on DG which I like...to the extent I like the piece at all. I did have the Previn on LP a long time ago and thought it was excellent.

Mike

All but one of the tam-tam strokes are inaudible on Previn/EMI, from what I can remember.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Montpellier on June 26, 2007, 05:17:56 AM
The earlier Previn (for EMI) is excellent. He gets the tempos spot on and the work of choirmaster Arthur Oldham with his massed choral groups from the LSO (and the boys from ST Clement Dane School) is also commendable. As soloists Thomas Allen stands out as does the crystal clear tones of the underrated Sheila Armstrong. Previn also did a later version which is nowhere near as good.

The other choice I'd suggest is Ormandy/Philadelphia on Sony for many of the reasons listed above.
I definitely go along with the Ormandy - surprisingly clear recording for its age.  It truly catches the sensual spirit of this work especially from Cour d'Amours to the end but it's all good - the most engaging recording I've heard.  

The Previn seemed reasonable but the sound engineers messed up the dynamics here and there...could be the system I heard it on but the choir seemed to move back and forth according to how the recordists were trying to contain the dynamic variation.  He'd lost a bit of his former energy by the time in made this recording - just my view - but one of the better ones all the same.     
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Holden on June 26, 2007, 01:16:06 PM
The Previn I have is live, on DG from 1994, the WP with the Arnold Schoenberg Chor. I didn't realize he had recorded this twice. Yes, as M said it is pretty good, an exciting performance, but I had a few quibbles I remember, sometimes the sound is a bit harsh and the inner parts aren't always clear.

This disc has a funny story attached, I bought it because we were playing a transcription in band, I was 14, and it was the first DG disc I ever bought. I knew "The Yellow Label" was quite prestigious in classical and it was the most expensive one, so I figured it must be the "best"!  ;D

I'm seeing this live next year and want to get another, one with more clarity. I will definitely look into the Jochum.

Check out the Previn EMI, It is much better than your DG recording.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: czgirb on December 22, 2010, 09:28:37 PM
OK, one of the most done-to-death opening sections, but the rest of it is really rather fascinating. With such large forces though, and so many recordings, it's difficult to know which one to go for. I need to hear all the percussion (including the tam-tam), I need audible tubas, expressive soloists and a choir that sounds big and together.
I have the old Ozawa recording on RCA on vinyl which is wonderful, and the Hickox / LSO recording on CD (Regis) which I'm not struck with so I want to replace the CD.
Has anyone heard the new Marin Alsop recording on Naxos?

Since sound is a matter, I recommend that you should give yourself a try for:
* LP ... Previn (EMI).
* CD ... Shaw (Telarc).
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Brewski on October 04, 2012, 12:40:45 PM
Last night's performance by Riccardo Muti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra of Orff's Carmina Burana (opening night at Carnegie Hall) is online, below. Muti was sensational, making the piece much more than just loud and blustery, and the soloists and choruses were excellent.

http://www.npr.org/event/music/161954474/carnegie-hall-live-chicago-symphony-orchestra-performs-carmina-burana

--Bruce
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: techniquest on October 10, 2012, 10:38:37 AM
Holy resurrection Batman!  ;D
Thanks for the link - I have given the Muti performance a listen but have to say I was struck from the start at the much slower pace than I'm used to (and I've listened to some of the recommendations cited on this thread over the last 5 years). It was kind of inside out with its' pacing - the 'Amor volat undique' being rather fast but beautifully delicate, as was the following song with the abnormally high part for the baritone. The kids had a nice 'urchin' sound about them in their brief sections, but the O Fortuna 'bookends' to the piece felt to me to be just a tad too sluggish.
I have bought the Alsop / Bournemouth recording on Naxos and find it to be a really nice, clear, well paced rendition; well worth the budget price! However, I have also since bought the Ozawa / Boston recording which I mentioned at the start, on CD 24/96 audiophile remastering. It just gives weight to the old adage 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it': this digitised version may be as clear as a bell, but they've ripped all the guts out of it. If you can find the un-remastered recording, I'd say give a it a try.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Brewski on October 10, 2012, 11:05:06 AM
Holy resurrection Batman!  ;D
Thanks for the link - I have given the Muti performance a listen but have to say I was struck from the start at the much slower pace than I'm used to (and I've listened to some of the recommendations cited on this thread over the last 5 years). It was kind of inside out with its' pacing - the 'Amor volat undique' being rather fast but beautifully delicate, as was the following song with the abnormally high part for the baritone. The kids had a nice 'urchin' sound about them in their brief sections, but the O Fortuna 'bookends' to the piece felt to me to be just a tad too sluggish.
I have bought the Alsop / Bournemouth recording on Naxos and find it to be a really nice, clear, well paced rendition; well worth the budget price! However, I have also since bought the Ozawa / Boston recording which I mentioned at the start, on CD 24/96 audiophile remastering. It just gives weight to the old adage 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it': this digitised version may be as clear as a bell, but they've ripped all the guts out of it. If you can find the un-remastered recording, I'd say give a it a try.

You are absolutely right about the slower tempi (though I liked them). As a whole I thought Muti's choices made greater weight, but then, that's what I feel about some of Chailly's Mahler, which is too slow for others.

I do like Alsop, so will have to hear that - and haven't heard the Ozawa. My two favorites (to date) are Muti's with the Philharmonia (despite as I recall, some slightly hazy sound) and the wonderful Arleen Augér, and Blomstedt/San Francisco (with sound super-clear) and a really sharp chorus.





--Bruce
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Gurn Blanston on October 10, 2012, 12:53:37 PM
After reading through this thread (? Don't know why, really) and then going out and finding the texts to the 24 songs and reading the background to the whole thing, I went ahead and picked this one up, as the generally accepted version:



I'm prepared to be gratified.  0:)

8)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Brewski on October 10, 2012, 12:55:54 PM
Gurn, I haven't heard that one in decades, but hey, it has Janowitz singing - how bad can it be?  ;D

--Bruce
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Gurn Blanston on October 10, 2012, 01:02:48 PM
Gurn, I haven't heard that one in decades, but hey, it has Janowitz singing - how bad can it be?  ;D

--Bruce

Indeed, and F-D also. FWIW, early on in this thread M rec'd it wholeheartedly and clearly used it as a benchmark in comparing versions. Whatever else has passed under the bridge, he never steered me wrong on a recording. And Jochum; how bad could it be?  :)

You guys can all laugh at me and shake your heads in disbelief, but this is my first recording of this piece. Of course, I've heard it, but never got a recording of it. So there. :)

8)
 
8)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2012, 01:58:14 PM
You are absolutely right about the slower tempi (though I liked them). As a whole I thought Muti's choices made greater weight, but then, that's what I feel about some of Chailly's Mahler, which is too slow for others.

I do like Alsop, so will have to hear that - and haven't heard the Ozawa. My two favorites (to date) are Muti's with the Philharmonia (despite as I recall, some slightly hazy sound) and the wonderful Arleen Augér, and Blomstedt/San Francisco (with sound super-clear) and a really sharp chorus.



--Bruce

A big yes for the Blomstedt, Bruce, some others I enjoy is from Dorati (not near my collection so can't remember the ensemble) Slatkin/St Louis (excellent soloists-McNair, Hagegard and Aler) and the chamber version for percussion/pianos/vocalist.


Edit: The Dorati is with Royal Philharmonic, and here's the Chamber Version disc I own...

(http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/9/2/9/9/7318590007341_300.jpg)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 04:35:59 PM
After reading through this thread (? Don't know why, really) and then going out and finding the texts to the 24 songs and reading the background to the whole thing, I went ahead and picked this one up, as the generally accepted version:



I'm prepared to be gratified.  0:)

8)

In my estimate, the best performance of Carmina Burana on the market. It doesn't get much better than this recording. I haven't heard this work in several years, but the last recording I bought was Tilson Thomas and I enjoyed the modern sound of that one and the performance was melodically and rhythmically in line with the way I believe the work should sound.



Since visiting this thread, I've been thinking about picking up Muti's recording. This seems to be right up his alley I would think.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 10, 2012, 04:45:31 PM
A big yes for the Blomstedt...
x2.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2012, 05:04:58 PM

Since visiting this thread, I've been thinking about picking up Muti's recording. This seems to be right up his alley I would think.

John, the Muti is quite intense, the Philharmonia orchestra is top notch. I'm sure you could snatch one fairly cheap.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 05:40:07 PM
John, the Muti is quite intense, the Philharmonia orchestra is top notch. I'm sure you could snatch one fairly cheap.

How is the audio quality, Greg? I've read several complaints about it from Amazon reviewers.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Gurn Blanston on October 10, 2012, 06:11:42 PM
In my estimate, the best performance of Carmina Burana on the market. It doesn't get much better than this recording.


Well, you seem to be in agreement with a hell of a lot of other people on that! Of course, me being me, the consensus that the words are delivered in a clear and understandable way, and that the proper emotion is attached to them is crucial to my decision-making process. Now I know what's it's all about and have read the verses so I know the what and why. This is a vital part of my enjoyment process, and I think this recording will fit in with that nicely. It's already in the post, so I'll know soon enough. :)

8)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 06:57:05 PM
Well, you seem to be in agreement with a hell of a lot of other people on that! Of course, me being me, the consensus that the words are delivered in a clear and understandable way, and that the proper emotion is attached to them is crucial to my decision-making process. Now I know what's it's all about and have read the verses so I know the what and why. This is a vital part of my enjoyment process, and I think this recording will fit in with that nicely. It's already in the post, so I'll know soon enough. :)

8)

Well, in way I was spoiled by this recording because it was my first Carmina Burana performance on CD. Something about it just sold me from the very beginning and I didn't even need to hear a note. Carl Orff put his stamp of approval on the recording and that was good enough for me. :) But, yes, all of the reviews rate this recording very highly. Many of them stating it's the best performance they've heard. After hearing it, it was hard to argue with that! The soloists, chorus, orchestra, and Jochum himself were completely in-tune with the music and they make you believe it more than any others I've heard. This performance has all the magic, rhythmic vitality, heart, and emotion you could want.

Hope you sincerely enjoy it! It's been years since I've heard it, but if I can easily recall the performance as well as I just did for you, then this must be saying something.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: springrite on October 10, 2012, 07:17:58 PM
My first recording was De Burgos which I loved. But I lost it (must be to an ex-gf; a small price to pay?), so I got Dorati as a replacement which isn't nearly as satisfying.

I am picking up the Thielemann next week in Baltimore. I have heard differing opinions about it. So it must be at least interesting. I will be listening to it while driving from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 10, 2012, 07:26:40 PM
My first one was this one (loved the cover and the performance is pretty good too):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ygskDeuUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
How is the audio quality, Greg? I've read several complaints about it from Amazon reviewers.

The audio is a little inconsistent, dry at times, but not unbearable, and the performance out weights this issue. 
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 08:10:53 PM
The audio is a little inconsistent, dry at times, but not unbearable, and the performance out weights this issue.

Thanks, Greg. I'll definitely consider it, but I seldom listen to Carmina Burana and the last time I listened to it was April 3rd, 2011 when I received the Tilson Thomas in the mail and fired it up on the stereo.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2012, 08:14:46 PM
Thanks, Greg. I'll definitely consider it, but I seldom listen to Carmina Burana and the last time I listened to it was April 3rd, 2011 when I received the Tilson Thomas in the mail and fired it up on the stereo.

BTW, great quote in your signature.  :)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 08:40:20 PM
BTW, great quote in your signature.  :)

(http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/thumbsup.png)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 09:33:19 PM
My first one was this one (loved the cover and the performance is pretty good too):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ygskDeuUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

I've always wondered about this one (and Ozawa's with the BSO), so would you say it's your favorite Carmina Burana performance?
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 10, 2012, 09:45:28 PM
Right now, I'm looking at this Ozawa/BSO performance on RCA and the price sure does look enticing enough:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001TSWLY.01.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: kaergaard on October 11, 2012, 07:04:36 PM
Of the number of Carminas in my collection, the Eugen Jochum used to be on the top. Then there is one performed by the Orchestre Philharmonique de Sofia with an outstanding chorus. Penderecki and the State Cracow Philharmony Orchestra and Chorus, different, very good too. Now when I am in the mood for Orff and his Carmina I pick the one with Christian Thielemann conducting the Chorus and Orchestra of the Deutsche Oper in Berlin. Thielemann has just the right touch for this composition to make it sound perfect. Of course the fact that Simon Keenlyside is in the cast puts the extra briliance on this recording.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Of the number of Carminas in my collection, the Eugen Jochum used to be on the top. Then there is one performed by the Orchestre Philharmonique de Sofia with an outstanding chorus. Penderecki and the State Cracow Philharmony Orchestra and Chorus, different, very good too. Now when I am in the mood for Orff and his Carmina I pick the one with Christian Thielemann conducting the Chorus and Orchestra of the Deutsche Oper in Berlin. Thielemann has just the right touch for this composition to make it sound perfect. Of course the fact that Simon Keenlyside is in the cast puts the extra briliance on this recording.

::) Know you tell me after I bought the Ozawa BSO recording. ;) I'll check out Thielemann at some point. I'm quite happy with buying Ozawa/BSO as I got it so cheap. I'm not a huge Carmina Burana fan, but it's good to have multiple performances of the work. I do enjoy the rhythmic vitality of the piece though.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 11, 2012, 08:29:25 PM
I've always wondered about this one (and Ozawa's with the BSO), so would you say it's your favorite Carmina Burana performance?
I like both, though my favorite is the Blomstedt. Ozawa is pretty good, but I find a bit less transparent than I prefer (though part of it is that the Blomstedt is just so darned clear in this regard). Still, it is pretty powerful. I have a hard time talking about the Levine, since it was my first. I love it. But it is totally different than the Blomstedt in its weightiness/power. Maybe see if there is an excerpt on youtube. I like the chorus a lot.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 11, 2012, 08:39:43 PM
I like both, though my favorite is the Blomstedt. Ozawa is pretty good, but I find a bit less transparent than I prefer (though part of it is that the Blomstedt is just so darned clear in this regard). Still, it is pretty powerful. I have a hard time talking about the Levine, since it was my first. I love it. But it is totally different than the Blomstedt in its weightiness/power. Maybe see if there is an excerpt on youtube. I like the chorus a lot.

What is up with this forum and Blomstedt? It's like he's the messiah or something. The guy does nothing for me. The only recordings I've really enjoyed of Blomstedt's were his Hindemith recordings. The beautiful thing about these particular readings is since Blomstedt has nothing to add to the music, he lets the orchestra rip as a result of his lack of vision which came as a bit of surprise since I don't associate exciting conducting from him. His Nielsen performances don't really do much for me anymore since I've heard Schonwandt, Chung, and Bernstein. Ozawa, I can take or leave, mostly leave, but I do enjoy his Ravel recordings a lot and he did a fantastic job with Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet. Probably my favorite performance of that ballet. His Orff performance was certainly cheap enough ($4), so I figured I would take a chance on it. Levine is a conductor I like a lot, so his performance would be one I would be interested in getting if I were in the market for another Carmina Burana.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2012, 03:16:51 AM
John, I see Blomstedt having two bonuses to offer. First, the SFS, one of the top, possibly top 5 orchestras in the US. They've always been consistent with producing quality work. The second, and this could be more of a personal taste, is that Blomstedt offers a more objective interpretation in his recordings, a little lighter in added drama but is committed to allowing the nuances of the score to shine. Because of this, Blomstedt/SFS have my favorite Mahler 2, Sibelius Sym. set, a solid Orff Burana as discussed here, great Strauss, Hindemith and Nielsen.
 8)

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 12, 2012, 04:52:52 AM
John, I see Blomstedt having two bonuses to offer. First, the SFS, one of the top, possibly top 5 orchestras in the US. They've always been consistent with producing quality work. The second, and this could be more of a personal taste, is that Blomstedt offers a more objective interpretation in his recordings, a little lighter in added drama but is committed to allowing the nuances of the score to shine. Because of this, Blomstedt/SFS have my favorite Mahler 2, Sibelius Sym. set, a solid Orff Burana as discussed here, great Strauss, Hindemith and Nielsen.
 8)
I agree about the lighness and transparency. I feel I hear more details (or perhaps details I don't hear elsewhere). The soloists are consistent with this approach too, which gives some ethereal moments. This lightness gives some of the bite greater impact too. If you prefer your Carmina fuller and more rousing, this probably is not the ideal version. It's a version that has grown on me with time.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on October 12, 2012, 05:24:54 AM
Listening to the Levine again now - just fabulous. The chorus is very fine - controlled, precise, biting, in unison, etc. Very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: springrite on October 12, 2012, 05:30:08 AM
What is up with this forum and Blomstedt? It's like he's the messiah or something. The guy does nothing for me. The only recordings I've really enjoyed of Blomstedt's were his Hindemith recordings. The beautiful thing about these particular readings is since Blomstedt has nothing to add to the music, he lets the orchestra rip as a result of his lack of vision which came as a bit of surprise since I don't associate exciting conducting from him. His Nielsen performances don't really do much for me anymore since I've heard Schonwandt, Chung, and Bernstein. Ozawa, I can take or leave, mostly leave, but I do enjoy his Ravel recordings a lot and he did a fantastic job with Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet. Probably my favorite performance of that ballet. His Orff performance was certainly cheap enough ($4), so I figured I would take a chance on it. Levine is a conductor I like a lot, so his performance would be one I would be interested in getting if I were in the market for another Carmina Burana.

My thought exactly. I like the Hindemith but dislike the Nielsen intensely! He is a very competent, even good conductor but...
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 12, 2012, 07:22:49 AM
John, I see Blomstedt having two bonuses to offer. First, the SFS, one of the top, possibly top 5 orchestras in the US. They've always been consistent with producing quality work. The second, and this could be more of a personal taste, is that Blomstedt offers a more objective interpretation in his recordings, a little lighter in added drama but is committed to allowing the nuances of the score to shine. Because of this, Blomstedt/SFS have my favorite Mahler 2, Sibelius Sym. set, a solid Orff Burana as discussed here, great Strauss, Hindemith and Nielsen.
 8)

The San Francisco Symphony Orchestra are a fine group and have always performed well, but I just don't hold Blomstedt in high regard. His only saving grace are his Hindemith recordings. I've never liked his Sibelius recordings and I wouldn't even bother listening to his Strauss or Mahler, especially when there are so many other conductors who have performed these composer's music. But I have 19 cycles of Sibelius' symphonies, I could never possibly like them all.

After reading Neal's remarks, Levine will probably be my next Carmina Burana. I really enjoy Levine's conducting.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Mirror Image on October 12, 2012, 07:25:18 AM
He is a very competent, even good conductor but...

...he doesn't really bring a unique insight or any kind of risk-taking to the music.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: huntsman on February 22, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
Which is the best version?  :-\
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 09:34:06 AM
Which is the best version?  :-\

There are many potential best versions. Get ready for many offerings.  ;D

I prefer Slatkin, Blomstedt, and Jochum in the orchestral version. But I love this chamber version...

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLhKn-yyPj_LRVvnp8NH7t8UVZ1Yl2qFwa9odikgB-6UBMVncHzw)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 22, 2013, 09:38:08 AM
Curiously, I heard the chamber version live in St Petersburg, at the Glinka Capella, and it was a visiting Scandinavian student ensemble (from Norway, though).
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Cato on February 22, 2013, 12:31:55 PM
You cannot go wrong with Orff's favorite version...



...because it has Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (Ego Sum Abbas Cucaniensis) and the incredible Gerhard Stolze as the roasted swan in Olim lacus colueram.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 22, 2013, 12:35:49 PM
There are many potential best versions. Get ready for many offerings.  ;D

I prefer Slatkin, Blomstedt, and Jochum in the orchestral version.
I'm fine with any of these three myself! :)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 22, 2013, 12:42:43 PM
You cannot go wrong with Orff's favorite version...



...because it has Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (Ego Sum Abbas Cucaniensis) and the incredible Gerhard Stolze as the roasted swan in Olim lacus colueram.

This is the killer version for sure. I just re-listened to it last weekend, played it twice through because I could. :)

8)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Holden on February 22, 2013, 02:07:37 PM
There are two that I rate as top and I prefer them over the Jochum.



or



You'll note that both companies rate these as 'Great Recordings' and deservedly so.

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: david johnson on February 23, 2013, 01:00:27 AM
1) http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=7879

2) honorable mention: jochum
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Tsaraslondon on February 23, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
This was always my favourite. Lucia Popp is to die for

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e4g%2B8Ya7L._SL500_.jpg)

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: jochanaan on February 27, 2013, 06:49:17 PM
This was always my favourite. Lucia Popp is to die for

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51e4g%2B8Ya7L._SL500_.jpg)
It's certainly one of the best vocally (I agree about La Lucia!), but I feel other conductors have a better handle on Orff's instrumental style and tempo markings.  Andre Previn and Eugene Ormandy, surprisingly, come very close to ideal tempos and style.

I've only heard the Jochum recording on radio broadcast, but what impressed me is its simple joy and exuberance.  They're having the time of their lives! ;D That alone makes it a favorite of mine.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Daimonion on July 01, 2013, 04:01:47 AM
Dear All,

   I hope you don't mind if I ask for one more suggestion. I would like to order, in particular, Carl Orff's Carmina Burana (this time it is for a gift) but don't know which particular CD I should choose. Is there / are there any obvious choice(s)?

All the best,

Daimonion
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 01, 2013, 04:21:48 AM
This one: Jochum conducting, with Janowitz, Stolze, and Fischer-Dieskau




Sarge
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Cato on July 01, 2013, 04:25:42 AM
Dear All,

   I hope you don't mind if I ask for one more suggestion. I would like to order, in particular, Carl Orff's Carmina Burana (this time it is for a gift) but don't know which particular CD I should choose. Is there / are there any obvious choice(s)?

All the best,

Daimonion

Amen to what Sarge says!

Carl Orff himself liked this one the best: Eugen Jochum and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and the incredible Gerhard Stolze (singing the "Roast Swan Song"):

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2013, 04:29:25 AM
Good morning, Cato!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Daimonion on July 01, 2013, 05:35:04 AM
I've just (i.e. on last Friday) taken part in Carmina Burana's spectacle at the Wawel Royal Castle in Krakow:

http://opera.krakow.pl/english.php?id=2281

It's a pity I cannot embed any video file as an example:-(
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Holden on July 01, 2013, 12:23:26 PM
This



or this



I prefer both to the Jochum
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: david johnson on July 01, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Orff-Carmina-Burana-Ravel-Bolero/dp/B000002S3E/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372751534&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=carmina+burana+fruhbek
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: North Star on July 02, 2013, 07:14:00 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Orff-Carmina-Burana-Ravel-Bolero/dp/B000002S3E/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372751534&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=carmina+burana+fruhbek
Available here (and also in the music of the 20th C. box) - the Frühbeck de Burgos is the one I have. I would be interested in hearing how others, who may know several recordings, like it.

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: david johnson on July 03, 2013, 01:10:35 AM
North Star, it is the most exciting and best sounding to me.  I've had various recordings of the work since the 60's.  Many other good ones are out there, though  :)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 04:25:03 AM
On the whole, I think: none.

Over the years, I have participated in two performances of the piece, and sat in the audience for a third. I find it one of those works which is exciting to take part in, but it strikes me as rather indifferent as a piece to listen to.  Now, I am open to that reflection being changed, if I find The Right Recording, e.g., however, I don't know that it is reasonable to expect any recording to rival the rich experience of being in the orchestra (or in the chorus) as one of the executants of the piece.

YMMV, of course; I am not asserting this as the way it should be for anyone else on the planet  0:)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 03, 2013, 05:14:26 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/03/yje2eqy3.jpg)


I know, I just broke the rules a bit.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 05:19:49 AM
Actually, I've been curious to visit those, so thanks, Greg  :)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 03, 2013, 05:23:23 AM
Actually, I've been curious to visit those, so thanks, Greg  :)

I really like them, Karl. A bit more jarring, more unexpected than Burana. But it's in pieces like these that I find Orff to be in top form.

Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 03, 2013, 06:19:26 AM
On the whole, I think: none.

Over the years, I have participated in two performances of the piece, and sat in the audience for a third. I find it one of those works which is exciting to take part in, but it strikes me as rather indifferent as a piece to listen to.  Now, I am open to that reflection being changed, if I find The Right Recording, e.g., however, I don't know that it is reasonable to expect any recording to rival the rich experience of being in the orchestra (or in the chorus) as one of the executants of the piece.

YMMV, of course; I am not asserting this as the way it should be for anyone else on the planet  0:)

This is why I like the Blomstedt recording. It is lighter and nimbler. Several of the solos have an ethereal nature (in the way it is done). I find this really adds to my enjoyment. I also find it quite transparent, so I can really hear the parts well. I find it wears well on repeated listenings too.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 06:24:19 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, Neal!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Beorn on July 03, 2013, 06:26:15 AM
On the whole, I think: none.

Over the years, I have participated in two performances of the piece, and sat in the audience for a third. I find it one of those works which is exciting to take part in, but it strikes me as rather indifferent as a piece to listen to.  Now, I am open to that reflection being changed, if I find The Right Recording, e.g., however, I don't know that it is reasonable to expect any recording to rival the rich experience of being in the orchestra (or in the chorus) as one of the executants of the piece.

YMMV, of course; I am not asserting this as the way it should be for anyone else on the planet  0:)


Maybe it should only be performed without an audience.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 06:26:41 AM
Or with zombies!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Beorn on July 03, 2013, 06:32:12 AM
Or with zombies!

Carmina Mortuus  ;D
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 06:34:16 AM
Zombina burana!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Cato on July 03, 2013, 07:01:40 AM
I just came across this: a 10 CD set for c. $20. ( ???) with 2 versions of the Carmina Burana, plus Orff's more experimental and percussive works, along with two later operas which hearken back to the Carmina Burana style, Der Mond and Die Kluge (The Moon and The Wise Woman).

Sounds like a deal!

http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4 (http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4)

For some reason the ASIN will not work!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 03, 2013, 07:03:14 AM
Most interesting, Cato.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Beorn on July 03, 2013, 07:06:44 AM
I just came across this: a 10 CD set for c. $20. ( ???) with 2 versions of the Carmina Burana, plus Orff's more experimental and percussive works, along with two later operas which hearken back to the Carmina Burana style, Der Mond and Die Kluge (The Moon and The Wise Woman).

Sounds like a deal!

http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4 (http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4)

For some reason the ASIN will not work!

That might be orfferdoing it a bit.  ;)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 03, 2013, 07:25:52 AM
I just came across this: a 10 CD set for c. $20. ( ???) with 2 versions of the Carmina Burana, plus Orff's more experimental and percussive works, along with two later operas which hearken back to the Carmina Burana style, Der Mond and Die Kluge (The Moon and The Wise Woman).

Sounds like a deal!

http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4 (http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Orff-Lindermeier-Schwarzkopf-Graham-Hall/dp/B006FZG8S2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_4)

For some reason the ASIN will not work!

Great set! I have that Der Mond with Sawallisch that's included there, and it's wonderful.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: jut1972 on July 03, 2013, 11:13:42 AM
You say Carmina
I say Burana
Carmina
Burana
Carmina
Burana
Lets call the whole thing Orff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwrgAnx6Q8&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwrgAnx6Q8&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Cato on July 03, 2013, 11:28:11 AM
You say Carmina
I say Burana
Carmina
Burana
Carmina
Burana
Lets call the whole thing Orff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwrgAnx6Q8&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwrgAnx6Q8&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

That might be orfferdoing it a bit.  ;)

Okay, these jokes are just...Orfful!   ???
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Xenophanes on July 04, 2013, 03:41:12 PM
On the whole, I think: none.

Over the years, I have participated in two performances of the piece, and sat in the audience for a third. I find it one of those works which is exciting to take part in, but it strikes me as rather indifferent as a piece to listen to.  Now, I am open to that reflection being changed, if I find The Right Recording, e.g., however, I don't know that it is reasonable to expect any recording to rival the rich experience of being in the orchestra (or in the chorus) as one of the executants of the piece.

YMMV, of course; I am not asserting this as the way it should be for anyone else on the planet  0:)


That matches my experience. I have been in two performances and some excerpts. In the excerpts, I did some of the baritone solos (they couldn't find a soprano or tenor who wanted to do the solos, but I volunteered for the baritone solos). All those high Gs in the Estuans interius were at the time just about at the limit of my useful range, so it was quite tiring to rehearse it-my voice has gone up a little in my old age so I could do it more easily now than 30 years ago. But it's great fun to do, and the choruses aren't all that difficult vocally.  I don't really enjoy recordings of it and don't think I would find it that great to hear from the audience, either, except for the spectacle.  But lots of people enjoy it!
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: North Star on July 04, 2013, 11:28:00 PM
North Star, it is the most exciting and best sounding to me.  I've had various recordings of the work since the 60's.  Many other good ones are out there, though  :)
Thanks! I like it very well myself, too, but also agree with Karl's sentiment - this work would definitely be more exciting live.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: jochanaan on July 08, 2013, 04:43:44 PM
On the whole, I think: none.

Over the years, I have participated in two performances of the piece, and sat in the audience for a third. I find it one of those works which is exciting to take part in, but it strikes me as rather indifferent as a piece to listen to.  Now, I am open to that reflection being changed, if I find The Right Recording, e.g., however, I don't know that it is reasonable to expect any recording to rival the rich experience of being in the orchestra (or in the chorus) as one of the executants of the piece.

YMMV, of course; I am not asserting this as the way it should be for anyone else on the planet  0:)

I feel that way about a number of pieces, Karl.  In fact, as an oboist I often think I have the ideal "listening" seat!  Complete surround sound because I'm literally in the middle.  And as focused as I have to be when performing, there's no chance I'll miss much if I can hear it at all!  (Ironically, the only group of players I have consistent trouble hearing is the first violins! :o)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: huntsman on July 10, 2013, 12:53:04 AM
I bought the Jochum based on a recommendation here and to be honest I was decidedly underwhelmed.

Whether or not my taste was ruined by years of listening to the Old Spice advert I don't know, but this versions seemed a little wishy-washy to me and I'd prefer far more punch.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: snyprrr on July 16, 2013, 06:42:13 AM
Oh, I just tripped over 'O Fortuna' whilst searching for music the Band could play. WOW! It's just got the perfect driving rhythm and familiarity that would fit so purrrfectly in this particular spot.

It's also very easy to play on guitar and sounds just right as a heavy guitar piece...

dah dah, dih dih

dah dah, dih dih

dah dah dah daaaah daaaah dih dih

...with that pulsating tonic-fifth underneath (bom-bi bom-bi bom-bi bom-bi)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: jochanaan on July 17, 2013, 10:14:04 AM
Okay, these jokes are just...Orfful!   ???
Get Orff my Bach! ;D
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: André on August 22, 2017, 11:28:46 AM
This week I listened to a couple CB discs, which gave rise to an interesting finding.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YWv4JtZML._SY355_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/718h4uFpl7L._SX355_.jpg)

And

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71LMTSLpGSL._SX355_.jpg)

I was hoping the young Järvi would be one to find freshness and profane exhilaration to the ol' chestnut. That was not to be. Although the sound is suitably big and spacious, the myriad rythmic inflexions go for practically nothing, and the choir never seems to have fun singing the text.

Last year I had listened to the Jochum version for the first time, but I was not bowled over, finding the sound too bright and "in your face", with insufficient depth. This time around I was much less bothered by the sound - let's call it "very immediate" instead - and could relish the astounding musical feats from the chorus (prepared by the legendary Walter Hagen-Groll) and Eugen Jochum's laser beam eye for detail. I sometimes felt his conducting slightly rigid and unbending, but whenever doubts started to creep in, something miraculous happened - not the least being the three  soloist's extraordinary contributions. Stolze's sonorous head voice, DFD's "chummy" yet incredibly beautiful singing, Janowitz's hair-raising Dulcissime.

I'll put on Jochum's earlier DG recording from 16 years earlier (mono, 1952) for comparison. It clocks in some 30 seconds faster. If memory serves, only one of the soloists had met with my approval. But things change.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Jo498 on August 22, 2017, 12:00:23 PM
I don't know too many recordings (stereo Jochum, one of Kegel's and Fruhbeck de Burgos) because I can take the piece only once in a long while but overall Jochum has hold up very well.

As you point out, the soloists are amazingly good there. Janowitz is great and it is hard to believe that someone could beat Stolze as the roasted swan (although I can imagine that some find it to exaggerated) or Fi-Di  who is comically the pompous in "ego sum abbas cucaniensis" and really passionate later on (circa mea pectora multa sunt suspiria etc.). The sound is not great but Jochum has a feeling for the fun and swagger of the piece.
(A recording that was hailed for its sound I found a complete failure: Blomstedt on Decca: Sterile, boring, uninvolved and not at all raucous.)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: André on August 22, 2017, 01:32:05 PM
I didn't hear the Blomstedt. I have the Kegel and Frühbeck, as well as MTT, Ormandy, Ozawa (2 versions), Thielemann, Dutoit, Hill, Dorati and the first Jochum recording. I got rid of a couple recently. Not all are worth hearing more than once. Dutoit, MTT and Ozawa in Berlin are really excellent.

When it comes to savouring the text, I think I'll go back to Jochum and his Berlin Opera forces and glorious soloists. Jochum was a Bavarian through and through. I suspect he had an innate understanding of these old bavarian poems and drinking songs.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: mc ukrneal on August 24, 2017, 07:29:15 AM
I don't know too many recordings (stereo Jochum, one of Kegel's and Fruhbeck de Burgos) because I can take the piece only once in a long while but overall Jochum has hold up very well.

As you point out, the soloists are amazingly good there. Janowitz is great and it is hard to believe that someone could beat Stolze as the roasted swan (although I can imagine that some find it to exaggerated) or Fi-Di  who is comically the pompous in "ego sum abbas cucaniensis" and really passionate later on (circa mea pectora multa sunt suspiria etc.). The sound is not great but Jochum has a feeling for the fun and swagger of the piece.
(A recording that was hailed for its sound I found a complete failure: Blomstedt on Decca: Sterile, boring, uninvolved and not at all raucous.)
It's because you want it to be raucous. The Blomstedt is arguably, in my view, the best one out there. The soloists are incredible - sensual, innocent, and soaring where needed (and always in good control) . They bring out the beauty and create more of a story of episodes (I don't skip around anymore). The clarity is brilliant. It's one of my favorite features.  I can listen to this recording often (my ears don't get tired) - I notice details I don't hear in other versions. It stops to smell the roses.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Monsieur Croche on August 24, 2017, 08:10:34 PM
There is, too, this... (I have no idea in what format, ?DVD? if at all, this might be available.)
Lucia Popp(soprano)
John van Kesteren (tenor)
Hermann Prey (baritone)
Bavarian Radio Chorus Tolz Children's Choir
Munich Radio Orchestra
conducted by Kurt Eichhorn
Film Directed by Jean Pierre Ponnelle
("Kurt Eichhorn-Carmina Burana/Veris leta facies", sound recording administered by: SME)

https://www.youtube.com/v/IKc47r6_lFo

I don't know how long it was after my initial exposure to this in middle school before it dawned on me that there is no harmony in the choral writing, e.g. the chorus sings unison throughout.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: Jo498 on August 24, 2017, 11:15:08 PM
I got rid of the Blomstedt ages ago, so I cannot be more precise. But it was hailed in some circles back then and I was largely disappointed by it overall after of such praise. (I can hardly imagine that I really disliked Lynne Dawson but I vaguely recall being not at all impressed with the male solo singers, but as I said, I do not have the recording anymore.)

If you look at the piece and the texts, raucousness is not some odd personal preference of mine. This is not Debussy or Koechlin or some other refined fin-de-siécle stuff. It is rather simple neo/pseudo-primitivism with a Bavarian slant.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: opaquer on August 25, 2017, 03:12:52 AM
I love Carmina Burana, a work that has inevitably effected and influenced me (except for the opening section, argh!  >:( ).

Been listening to a bit of Orff today/yesterday, he's a very cool composer. Why isn't there a composer thread for him?  :-\ :-\


His other canatas, operas and many of his odds and ends (including Schulwerk pieces) include many surprises  8)
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 25, 2017, 05:19:27 AM
His other canatas, operas and many of his odds and ends (including Schulwerk pieces) include many surprises  8)

Would you believe me if I told you this was my ringtone?

https://www.youtube.com/v/RGJb2Q14z4g


And yes, Orff deserves his own page NOT only dedicated to Carmina Burana.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: millionrainbows on September 14, 2017, 12:45:17 PM
I like the Blomstedt as well, but I have heard him castigated in reviews. The sound is good, recorded in that famous hall.
Title: Re: Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
Post by: LKB on October 28, 2017, 11:57:38 PM
Carmina and l go back a long way. I've sung the bass part in the chorus as well as solo baritone. And back when dinosaurs walked the earth, l played timpani in an arrangement of the entire work for concert band ( yes, they actually did arrange CB for concert band, which may well prove that God really is dead ).

Let me just say for the record that playing the timpani for Carmina Burana was ( expletive ) awesome, probably the only personal performing experience l would describe as " primal ".

Carmina Burana is an emphatically social work, creating an emotional frisson which l believe to be unique. A successful performance will imbue an audience with tenderness, lust, joy, laughter, and an insight into the warrior's love for chaos.

As far as recordings are concerned, it's Jochum on DG for me. I've owned a few others, but DF-D, Stolze and Janowitz remain unsurpassed imho, and both chorus and orchestra are more than adequate.

O Fortuna,

LKB