GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Classical Music for Beginners => Topic started by: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 09:27:47 AM

Title: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 09:27:47 AM
Hi Everyone!

I've been reading a few threads in here and thought I may be able to get a little help from you guys. I'll tell you a little about my journey into classical music so far.

I've always like the idea of classical music as a genre. As everyone has, I've heard bits a pieces here and there on TV, movies, commercials, and the like, and liked the sound of what I heard. It didn't go any further than that for years though.

I've always been a movie fan, and listened to movie soundtracks quite often, so instrumental pieces aren't new to me. Likewise, I like heavy metal music, so I'm used to longer compositions.

About a year ago, I was searching the Google Play Music catalogue, and found one of those "99 Best Pieces of Classical Music" compilations for a couple of pound. I downloaded it, and listened to a few tracks, and lo and behold found that I knew and enjoyed many of them. But I was still unsatisfied. It felt too unfocused a way to begin my journey, too overwhelming and the track names didn't have composers attached so I had no idea who I was listening to!

Fast forward a few months, and I decided to give the whole classical thing another go. Being a Science Fiction fan, I downloaded Holst's "The Planets", dimmed the lights, reclined my chair and put on my headphones. Well, that was it. I was transported. That was a magnificent experience. I think at that point I was determined to explore further.

Digressing slightly, I have recently joined the vinyl revolution, and a classical thread on a vinyl forum I visit suggested that charity shops are full to the brim with forgotten classical titles, in good condition, for next to no money.

With this in mind I hit my nearest town centre, and came away with the following on vinyl (over a couple of separate trips):

Vivaldi - The Four Seasons Op. 8 Nos. 1-4
Tchaikovsky - The Nutcracker (Complete Ballet)
JS Bach - Brandenburg Concertos Nos. 4-6
Mozart - Piano Concerto No. 21 (Eine Kleine Nachtmusik)
Sibelius - Symphony No.2 in D

Classical Gold Vols 1 & 2 Compilations(Excerpts from longer works)

Of the above I've only listened to Vivaldi, and really enjoyed it. Are the rest of the works worth checking out? Have I got a "good" basis from which to work?

In addition to these, I've fired Spotify up, and checked out a few works on there. Mainly Beethoven's 5th (which I'm a little obsessed with at the moment - my God its majestic!) I'm afraid that I've peaked too early with this though and its all downhill from here... Staying with Beethoven, Moonlight Sonata and Fur Elise and too fantastic. I believe I may be turning into a Beethoven fanboy. I'm taking it slowly with each piece, listening to it over and over until I feel I know it well. My next step is to check out his 4th Symphony (just because its on the same album as the 5th), and then the 9th (because I heard such good things about it. Is this a good path to take?

Looking further ahead, I gather from this forum that Mahler is well thought of, and I heard a piece from his 2nd Symphony on a YouTube video that sounded good, so thats definitely on my radar.

I also suspect that I'd like Wagner. I'm a big Meat Loaf/Jim Steinman fan and Steinman's songs are often described as Wangerian rock opera. But I've no idea where to start. Any thoughts on this? I'm really drawn towards the dramatic/OTT/high energy style of music.

Now, I'm not a music student, nor do I have any background on music theory, or forms, etc. Is it OK if I just like what goes in my ears?

Thanks for reading this and I look forward to  everyone's input.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: bhodges on April 04, 2016, 09:44:08 AM
Hi mellis107, and welcome. It sounds like you have been bitten by the classical bug in a serious way. So just to address a small part of your post, definitely listen to the other works on your list - if you like Vivaldi, you might like those Bach Brandenburg Concertos a lot.

The whole point is to enjoy (which is sound like you're already doing!) so yes, continue on your path of trying different things. And hope you have a good time here.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 04, 2016, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 09:27:47 AM
Hi Everyone!

If you look through the Beginners section, you'll find a number of threads already answering questions similar to those you raise. Why don't you start with that and we can pick things up from there.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 10:28:26 AM
Quote from: Brewski on April 04, 2016, 09:44:08 AM
if you like Vivaldi, you might like those Bach Brandenburg Concertos a lot.

Thanks Brewski. I'll definitely check them out as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Rinaldo on April 04, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 09:27:47 AMIs it OK if I just like what goes in my ears?

Absolutely. But don't be afraid to give them a little 'challenge' now and then. Some truly great music, especially contemporary, can be acquired taste.

Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 04, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
You sound like you are doing just fine to me. Long may your enthuisiasm last. You should fit in well here. Explore as much different music as you can and that way you will establish quite quickly what and who you like and enjoy the exploration.  :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Pat B on April 05, 2016, 12:19:14 AM
Quote from: aligreto on April 04, 2016, 12:23:12 PM
You sound like you are doing just fine to me. Long may your enthuisiasm last. You should fit in well here. Explore as much different music as you can and that way you will establish quite quickly what and who you like and enjoy the exploration.  :)

+1. Enjoy the process and don't feel obligated to like anything.

Since you asked about Mahler, he is one of my favorites, but it took me a long time. His 4th is the only one I immediately loved.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: jochanaan on April 05, 2016, 03:38:40 PM
Welcome!  If you like The Planets, you would most likely also like the Sibelius Symphony (and all the other 6 Sibelius symphonies, plus the tone poems).  You might also like Stravinsky's Firebird, Petrushka, and Rite of Spring ballets, and the Shostakovich symphonies.  My personal favorite Shostakovich symphonies are 1, 4, 5, 8, 10, and 14, but they're all worth hearing.  Oh, and Mahler would probably pique your interest. :)

There's also a lot of good music that does not require orchestra.  String quartets (Haydn, Beethoven and Shostakovich wrote wonderful quartets), piano solos (you'd probably like the Beethoven piano sonatas, especially the Pathetique and Appassionata), woodwind quintets (there's a lovely one by Samuel Barber) and music for any number of other combinations of instruments.

Do you have any prejudice against opera?  Wagner, of course, is exclusively an opera composer; if you're willing to sit down for several hours at a time, his "music dramas" (he preferred that term) contain lots of good music.  Some here recommend enjoying opera merely as music; I prefer to enjoy it as a blend of music and stage presentation. 8)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on April 05, 2016, 03:38:40 PM
Wagner, of course, is exclusively an opera composer;

So much for his Symphony in C, or the Siegfried Idyll, huh?   ;)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 05, 2016, 04:49:34 PM
Welcome.  Everything you grabbed on LP is very good stuff.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Que on April 05, 2016, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on April 05, 2016, 03:38:40 PM
Welcome!  If you like The Planets, you would most likely also like the Sibelius Symphony (and all the other 6 Sibelius symphonies, plus the tone poems).  You might also like Stravinsky's Firebird, Petrushka, and Rite of Spring ballets, and the Shostakovich symphonies.  My personal favorite Shostakovich symphonies are 1, 4, 5, 8, 10, and 14, but they're all worth hearing.  Oh, and Mahler would probably pique your interest. :)


I think these are good recommendations to follow up on the Holst.

To follow up on the Vivaldi Bach's Brandenburg concertos have already been mentioned. Perhaps also try Bach's violin concertos and orchestral suites, Handel's Water Music or other orchestral music. Or more Vivaldi of course, why not?  :D

Beethoven. If you like the symphonies (try the 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th - save the 9th for last) An obvious follow up would also be the concertos.

Other than then the "big" late Romantic/Modern symohonic repertoire already mentioned, try symphonies by Schubert, Mendelsohn, Schumann, Dvorak (9th) and Brahms.

And...welcome to the forum!  :)

Q
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Jay F on April 05, 2016, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 04, 2016, 09:27:47 AMI gather from this forum that Mahler is well thought of, and I heard a piece from his 2nd Symphony on a YouTube video that sounded good, so thats definitely on my radar.
A good place to start listening to Mahler:

[asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin]
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 06, 2016, 03:43:01 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM
So much for his Symphony in C, or the Siegfried Idyll, huh?   ;)

So substitute "primarily" for "exclusively." A few well-known non-operatic works besides, Wagner is remembered today almost exclusively for his stage works.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: springrite on April 06, 2016, 04:08:40 AM
Be prepared to be led to all different directions.






Oh, and they are all good!  :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Karl Henning on April 06, 2016, 04:24:30 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 06, 2016, 03:43:01 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM
So much for his Symphony in C, or the Siegfried Idyll, huh?   ;)

So substitute "primarily" for "exclusively." A few well-known non-operatic works besides, Wagner is remembered today almost exclusively for his stage works.

Also, half of Scion's post underscores the point:  The Siegfried-Idyll is standard rep, and for good reason.

The Symphony in C is a curiosity for specialists only.  And for good reason, too  8)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Karl Henning on April 06, 2016, 04:24:42 AM
Quote from: springrite on April 06, 2016, 04:08:40 AM
Be prepared to be led to all different directions.






Oh, and they are all good!  :)

There is that, too  0:)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 06, 2016, 05:42:14 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 06, 2016, 04:24:30 AM
Also, half of Scion's post underscores the point:  The Siegfried-Idyll is standard rep, and for good reason.

And it is derived from themes from Wagner's opera Siegfried. The Wesendonck Lieder might have been a better example, although it has ties to Tristan as well.

I'm afraid we're getting off the point of finding ways to help our newbie . . . .
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 06, 2016, 09:58:56 AM
Hi Everyone!

First of all, let me begin by saying a big thank you for all the help suggestions, and above all encouragement I've received on this new-found journey of mine. You're all wonderful.

I've plenty to go at, but I think I've got a definite plan in mind now (he says, until something else catches his interest, and then off he goes like a kid in a candy store..).

As pay day in in a week's time, I'm going to buy a few CD recordings of pieces I know and like. Listening on CD is a different experience altogether than streaming and MP3.

First on the list is Beethoven's 5th (of course!) and if I can find an album with another symphony on there, then that's even better (one I haven't heard preferably). Also on my list is a copy of The Four Seasons. I've heard a snatch of another work by Vivaldi (RV 211), which piqued my interest and so I've spotted a recording with these two, plus another couple of pieces which is definitely on my radar:

[asin]B00004T2PT[/asin]

In the meantime, I'll continue with my Spotify exploration (probably have a look at Mahler) and if anything catches me before payday, then that's going on the list too.

To be honest, I'm not sure how I've gone 36 years without this music in my life. Like Meat Loaf's "Bat Out Of Hell", Freddie Mercury's "In My Defense", and Iron Maiden's "Seventh Son" album, I hope that this will be music that'll be with me forever going forward.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 06, 2016, 01:11:15 PM
Good for you. It is a journey so enjoy the road  :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: springrite on April 06, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 06, 2016, 09:58:56 AM
I hope that this will be music that'll be with me forever going forward.

Oh, then there is that CDCDCD thing that we won't tell you about just yet...  >:D
Title: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 07, 2016, 05:19:40 AM
 ???
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on April 07, 2016, 05:44:29 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 07, 2016, 05:19:40 AM
???

Back up. Springrite is just being humorous. You might try this thread too (mainly because I wrote a lot of entries there):
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,25649.0.html
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Jo498 on April 07, 2016, 06:11:19 AM
I do not know about the US but if you want vinyl you can with some luck find lots for a pittance in yard sales or maybe Ebay (although the latter often has expensive collector's items). Classical LPs have often been treated well (sometimes not been played at all).

For Beethoven's 5th on CD, Carlos Kleiber with an even better 7th.

Otherwise, almost all "100 best" or similar lists are strongly biased towards 1785-1915 orchestral standard repertoire but they are not completely useless to get you started either.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 07, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on April 07, 2016, 06:11:19 AM
I do not know about the US but if you want vinyl you can with some luck find lots for a pittance in yard sales or maybe Ebay (although the latter often has expensive collector's items). Classical LPs have often been treated well (sometimes not been played at all).

This is what I'm tending to find. Perhaps folk bought them with all good intentions but didn't get into it for some reason?


Quote from: Jo498 on April 07, 2016, 06:11:19 AM
For Beethoven's 5th on CD, Carlos Kleiber with an even better 7th.


Scarily, I'm listening to this very recording on Spotify as I type! And its already on my Amazon wishlist.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 07, 2016, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 07, 2016, 05:44:29 AM
Back up. Springrite is just being humorous. You might try this thread too (mainly because I wrote a lot of entries there):
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,25649.0.html

Thanks for the link. Some very interesting points made there, namely that this is all subjective anyway, and I'll probably find my own way eventually.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: jochanaan on April 08, 2016, 05:35:41 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM
So much for his Symphony in C, or the Siegfried Idyll, huh?   ;)
I'll give you the Symphony, but the Siegfried Idyll is actually from the opera Siegfried. :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 08, 2016, 10:41:22 PM
A little bit of an update.

I tried a bit of Mahler, namely the 2nd Symphony. I'm afraid to say that I didn't care for it. There didn't seem to be anything for me to latch onto. Maybe I started in the wrong place. Would there be a better introduction to Mahler? Perhaps moving away from the symphonies?

Last night I gave Sibelious 5th Symphony a go, and really liked it. Not as immediately impactful as Beethoven's 5th, and in many ways a calmer experience, but there is plenty to enjoy here. I've listened a couple of times, and I'll hopefully have time to give it another run through at some point today.

EDIT: Just to say that it was a second recording of the 5th that I enjoyed more than the first one I found. Obviously, I don't have enough knowledge to know why this was so, but there you go.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Spineur on April 08, 2016, 11:27:28 PM
Why no try Mahler "Das Lied von der Erde", especially the last movement "Das Abschied".
https://www.youtube.com/v/kQZ51udFtrg
Then you could try Parsifal prelude
https://www.youtube.com/v/AQOfIENN2tk
If you dont care for either of them, then you will know that the post-romantic period isnt really for you.

But no worry, there are so any styles in classical music !  As most GMG members will testify, enough to fill in a lifetime.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Jo498 on April 08, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on April 08, 2016, 05:35:41 PM
I'll give you the Symphony, but the Siegfried Idyll is actually from the opera Siegfried. :)
No. It's an autonomous piece that uses a few motives from the Ring but was composed to celebrate the birth of Wagner's son Siegfried.
You probably think of "Waldweben" (Forest murmurs) a piece from the 2nd act of Siegfried that is sometimes played as an orchestral excerpt.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 01:40:32 AM
Quote from: Spineur on April 08, 2016, 11:27:28 PM
Why no try Mahler "Das Lied von der Erde", especially the last movement "Das Abschied".
https://www.youtube.com/v/kQZ51udFtrg
Then you could try Parsifal prelude
https://www.youtube.com/v/AQOfIENN2tk
If you dont care for either of them, then you will know that the post-romantic period isnt really for you.

But no worry, there are so any styles in classical music !  As most GMG members will testify, enough to fill in a lifetime.

I've given the second one a listen. I did myself a favour and ran it through my main speakers rather than the laptop. Yeah, it was OK. But just OK. Nothing really got the blood pumping I'm afraid. I'll give the first one a go when I have a little more time.

Incidentally, I caught a piece of Haydn's Symphony 93 - that seems more up my street.e
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 01:45:26 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 08, 2016, 10:41:22 PM
A little bit of an update.

I tried a bit of Mahler, namely the 2nd Symphony. I'm afraid to say that I didn't care for it. There didn't seem to be anything for me to latch onto. Maybe I started in the wrong place. Would there be a better introduction to Mahler? Perhaps moving away from the symphonies?

Last night I gave Sibelious 5th Symphony a go, and really liked it. Not as immediately impactful as Beethoven's 5th, and in many ways a calmer experience, but there is plenty to enjoy here. I've listened a couple of times, and I'll hopefully have time to give it another run through at some point today.

EDIT: Just to say that it was a second recording of the 5th that I enjoyed more than the first one I found. Obviously, I don't have enough knowledge to know why this was so, but there you go.

Just in relation to these two composers I found that Mahler's First and Fourth Symphomies were the most accessible and with regard to Sibelius I would suggest you sample his Second and Third Symphonies at this stage. Happy listening  :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 02:53:47 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 01:40:32 AM

Incidentally, I caught a piece of Haydn's Symphony 93 - that seems more up my street.e

Just another thought, not that there is any link here, but have you listened to Beethoven's Seventh Symphony yet? It is almost a celebratory work. This is a work that does not place any great demands on the listener. It has a great intensity and a great sense of forward movement throughout the work once you get past the longish introduction. Put it on your main system, turn up the volume and sit back and enjoy.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:46:30 AM
Quote from: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 01:45:26 AM
Just in relation to these two composers I found that Mahler's First and Fourth Symphomies were the most accessible and with regard to Sibelius I would suggest you sample his Second and Third Symphonies at this stage. Happy listening  :)
Thanks. I have got Sibelius  2nd on my list so I'll give that a go as soon as I can. With regard to Mahler I definitely want to give him another chance so I'll see what I think to the two you mention.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:47:35 AM
Quote from: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 02:53:47 AM
Just another thought, not that there is any link here, but have you listened to Beethoven's Seventh Symphony yet? It is almost a celebratory work. This is a work that does not place any great demands on the listener. It has a great intensity and a great sense of forward movement throughout the work once you get past the longish introduction. Put it on your main system, turn up the volume and sit back and enjoy.
My plan for the 7th is to buy a Cd that features both this and the 5th. I've got a recording in mind so it's just a case of waiting for funds.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 04:42:31 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:46:30 AM
Thanks. I have got Sibelius  2nd on my list so I'll give that a go as soon as I can. With regard to Mahler I definitely want to give him another chance so I'll see what I think to the two you mention.

Quote from: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:47:35 AM
My plan for the 7th is to buy a Cd that features both this and the 5th. I've got a recording in mind so it's just a case of waiting for funds.


Good Stuff. Do let us know how you get on with these works.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Rinaldo on April 09, 2016, 02:33:30 PM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 08, 2016, 10:41:22 PMI tried a bit of Mahler, namely the 2nd Symphony. I'm afraid to say that I didn't care for it. There didn't seem to be anything for me to latch onto.

I had the exact same experience with Mahler. Actually, still do (with a few enjoyable exceptions, e.g. the already mentioned Das Lied von der Erde).
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: aligreto on April 09, 2016, 04:42:31 AM


Good Stuff. Do let us know how you get on with these works.
Right, well that's Sibelius 5th, 2nd plus Symphonic Poem Op 9 done, and I  thoroughly enjoyed each of them. It may be too early to make this judgement buy he seems to have a nice line in gentle motifs which run through the while piece. Mind you I missed the finale of #2 as real life got in the way. I'll listen to that again tomorrow.

Currently listening to the first movement of Mahlers 1st Symphony and I'm delighted to report that I'm  getting on much better with it. So thanks for the guidance on this one. This is the kind of thing I'd hoped for when I started this thread.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: The new erato on April 10, 2016, 12:54:20 AM
With a lot of these composers you have to start at the right place before moving into their really great stuff!
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: aligreto on April 10, 2016, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 09, 2016, 03:13:08 PM
Right, well that's Sibelius 5th, 2nd plus Symphonic Poem Op 9 done, and I  thoroughly enjoyed each of them. It may be too early to make this judgement buy he seems to have a nice line in gentle motifs which run through the while piece. Mind you I missed the finale of #2 as real life got in the way. I'll listen to that again tomorrow.

Currently listening to the first movement of Mahlers 1st Symphony and I'm delighted to report that I'm  getting on much better with it. So thanks for the guidance on this one. This is the kind of thing I'd hoped for when I started this thread.

I knew that ther would not be a problem with Sibelius 2 and that should be the same for Sibelius 3.
However, that is great news on Mahler 1. We do not want you giving up on Mahler too soon.  8)
Give Mahler 4 a go next when you have the chance as that would be the next accessible one.
Happy listening  :)
Title: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 22, 2016, 08:02:51 AM
Hi all! I haven't forgotten about this thread, I've just been really busy so haven't had much time to devote to listening.

Just a quick update on what I have been upto however. I've been relistening to the pieces mentioned above particularly the Beethoven and Sibelius stuff. In addition to that a visit to my local record shop gave me the opportunity to buy Beethoven 9th Symphony as well as a box set of Haydn Salomon Symphonies. The box is in a bit of a state but the vinyl itself looks to be in decent condition to say it fates from 1958.

I've also just bought a boxset of vinyl from eBay consisting of Beethoven 5th along with some Schubert, Dvorak, Brahms and Tchaikovsky so that's plenty to go at I feel.

All in all I'm really enjoying my journey. The feeling when I hit on a piece that gives me the jollies is wonderful!
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 22, 2016, 11:17:25 PM
Since you apparently got off on the wrong foot with Mahler, let me try to suggest something that might appeal more to you.
For me, the Ninth and the completed portion of the Tenth are the ultimate in the instrumental Mahler, but  'The Song of the Earth' is generally considered his greatest achievement, and definitely the most popular historically.  Bernstein is not the best Mahler interpreter, but he's more than adequate here with a good orchestra and the great Christa Ludwig.  There are better studio recordings available, of course, but watching it 'live' may give you more appreciation for it - especially if you read along with the text.

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idRevTkIPts

I shudder somewhat to say this, but skip ahead to the final movement, at 34:29 - this is Der Abschied (The Farewell).
Mahler created a transitional work that is part symphony, part song.  This 'should' grab you, especially if you'll dig around the web and read about the origin of the work and read the texts (which you can find in English) that Mahler worked (and edited) from.

Then go back to the beginning and watch the whole thing, from the opening with Kollo kick-starting the proceedings.  If you come to love Das Lied von der Erde, which Mahler never got to hear - it was published, then performed, after his death - there is a major, long thread on this site about the various recordings of this work if you find yourself more interested. 

Added later - texts -  http://www.keepingscore.org/content/farewell-das-lied-von-der-erde-song-earth-symphony-tenor-and-contralto-or-baritone-and-orc
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Que on April 23, 2016, 12:32:15 AM
I find the Mahler and Sibelius pushing in the Beginners section quite endearing..... :D (Only Bruckner is missing to complete the picture...  ;)) Althougj it reflects general forum preferences, I don't think Mahler is your typical beginner's material...... 8)

Q
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Jo498 on April 23, 2016, 12:46:07 AM
I agree with Que. I am also not sure whether Das Lied von der Erde is the best start for Mahler. Many beginners are not very fond of classical singing. (My hypothesis is that this is mainly due to having been socialized for years or decades with amplified singing and therefore finding unamplified but classically trained voices "unnatural" and mannered).
I thought the most popular Mahler pieces were the 1st, 5th and 2nd (o.k. this one does have singing as well) symphonies. Although in the case of the 5th this might be due mostly to the popularity of the adagietto as movie music.

There ist nothing wrong with trying Bruckner, Mahler and Sibelius. Interestingly, when I started listening to classical almost 30 years ago, these would often be missing from typical "beginners" selections. There was Brahms, Wagner, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky and then e.g. Strauss' Eulenspiegel, Debussy's "Prelude" and "La mer" and then the more accessible Stravinsky like Firebird.
So apparently until recently those three (and others) were often deemed either to heavy for beginners or niches that could be left for later exploration.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 23, 2016, 03:40:24 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 22, 2016, 08:02:51 AM
I've also just bought a boxset of vinyl from eBay ... with some Schubert, Dvorak, Brahms and Tchaikovsky so that's plenty to go at I feel.

Which some, if you don't mind telling the tale?
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 23, 2016, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 23, 2016, 03:40:24 AM
Which some, if you don't mind telling the tale?

No problem at all Scion7. The full contents are as follows:
Beethoven - Symphonies 5 & 8
Tchaikovsky - Symphony 6
Brahms - Symphony 1
Dvorak - Symphony 9
Schubert - Symphony 5 & 8
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 23, 2016, 09:16:13 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 22, 2016, 11:17:25 PM
Since you apparently got off on the wrong foot with Mahler, let me try to suggest something that might appeal more to you.
For me, the Ninth and the completed portion of the Tenth are the ultimate in the instrumental Mahler, but  'The Song of the Earth' is generally considered his greatest achievement, and definitely the most popular.  Bernstein is not the best Mahler interpreter, but he's more than adequate here with a good orchestra and the great Christa Ludwig.  There are better studio recordings available, of course, but watching it 'live' may give you more appreciation for it - especially if you read along with the text.

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idRevTkIPts

I shudder somewhat to say this, but skip ahead to the final movement, at 34:29 - this is Der Abschied (The Farewell).
Mahler created a transitional work that is part symphony, part song.  This 'should' grab you, especially if you'll dig around the web and read about the origin of the work and read the texts (which you can find in English) that Mahler worked (and edited) from.

Then go back to the beginning and watch the whole thing, from the opening with Kollo kick-starting the proceedings.  If you come to love Das Lied von der Erde, which Mahler never got to hear - it was published, then performed, after his death - there is a major, long thread on this site about the various recordings of this work if you find yourself more interested.

Lovely thanks! I'll give that one a go. I think if I still don't get on with Mahler after this then I'll call it a dead end for now, and move onto other things.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Que on April 23, 2016, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 23, 2016, 09:14:11 AM
No problem at all Scion7. The full contents are as follows:
Beethoven - Symphonies 5 & 8
Tchaikovsky - Symphony 6
Brahms - Symphony 1
Dvorak - Symphony 9
Schubert - Symphony 5 & 8

That's an excellent list of masterpieces to start off with!  :)

Q
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Karl Henning on April 23, 2016, 09:54:40 AM


Quote from: Jo498 on April 23, 2016, 12:46:07 AM
I agree with Que. I am also not sure whether Das Lied von der Erde is the best start for Mahler. Many beginners are not very fond of classical singing.

Das Lied von der Erde was, in fact, the first Mahler I heard, and I liked it fine from the start. (Of course, I had been singing in choirs since my later teen years.)

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Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 23, 2016, 10:47:59 AM
There's something about it that makes it a great late-night listen right at that point where slumber is almost upon you - for The Farewell - and while it is sort of melancholy, at the same time, it is comforting.

* * *

That's a nice little grab bag you got there.
The seed that might germinate into an appreciation of the late Beethoven quartets, Mozart's symphonies No.39-40-41, Bach's Art of the Fugue and the 'Brandenburg Concertos', Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, Tchaikovsky's ballets, Shostakovich's 7th, 8th, and 10th symphonies, Schubert's songs, Brahms' vast chamber music works, the violin concertos of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky & Brahms, the piano music of Liszt, Chopin & Debussy, etc., etc., ad infinitum ..... We all need more than 10 lifetimes to really be able to listen to it all so many times that we become very familiar with it - but, alas . . .
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 23, 2016, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: Que on April 23, 2016, 09:34:31 AM
That's an excellent list of masterpieces to start off with!  :)

Q

I am keen to hear another Beethoven piece, to see if his 100% winning streak can possibly last...  :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 23, 2016, 02:27:03 PM
Well, Beethoven's 9th is the symphony-of-symphonies.
The 6th "Pastoral" is great, and the 7th is, too - all three of these top the 8th.
His late quartets and late piano sonatas are supreme pieces of music.
From his 'middle period,' you should love the 5th Piano Concerto "Emperor" and his violin concerto is one of the very best.
His violin sonata No.9/Op.47 "Kreutzer" is a supreme chamber piece.  The piano trio Op.90 "Archduke" is a defining Classical-period trio.
The last two cello sonatas Op.102 rank with the late quartets (almost.)
Pepper these with some of the other piano sonatas like No.23/Op.57 "Appassionata" , No.14/Op.27-2 "Moonlight" , No.8/Op.13 "Pathétique" , No.21/Op.53 "Waldstein" and No.26/Op.81a "Les adieux" -- this should give you a good taste of ol' Ludwig Van.  After that you can explore his many chamber pieces for winds, the middle period quartets, the string trios, the various symphonic program pieces, the overture to Fidelio ... - he has a big resume.    And some day you might even like to do some research/reading on him, especially his letters, which you can easily find.  They make some of the most interesting reading of any composer.

I'm glad you are taking an "instant like" to Beethoven - your head is on straight.
Insert <thumbs-up emoticon> here.
After all, we're talking about a mind that composed his greatest, most powerful music (and therefore some of the greatest music ever made) in total deafness - the sheer power of his intellect boggles the imagination.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: mellis107 on April 29, 2016, 08:24:37 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 22, 2016, 11:17:25 PM
Since you apparently got off on the wrong foot with Mahler, let me try to suggest something that might appeal more to you.
For me, the Ninth and the completed portion of the Tenth are the ultimate in the instrumental Mahler, but  'The Song of the Earth' is generally considered his greatest achievement, and definitely the most popular historically.  Bernstein is not the best Mahler interpreter, but he's more than adequate here with a good orchestra and the great Christa Ludwig.  There are better studio recordings available, of course, but watching it 'live' may give you more appreciation for it - especially if you read along with the text.

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idRevTkIPts

I shudder somewhat to say this, but skip ahead to the final movement, at 34:29 - this is Der Abschied (The Farewell).
Mahler created a transitional work that is part symphony, part song.  This 'should' grab you, especially if you'll dig around the web and read about the origin of the work and read the texts (which you can find in English) that Mahler worked (and edited) from.

Then go back to the beginning and watch the whole thing, from the opening with Kollo kick-starting the proceedings.  If you come to love Das Lied von der Erde, which Mahler never got to hear - it was published, then performed, after his death - there is a major, long thread on this site about the various recordings of this work if you find yourself more interested. 

Added later - texts -  http://www.keepingscore.org/content/farewell-das-lied-von-der-erde-song-earth-symphony-tenor-and-contralto-or-baritone-and-orc

:(
I'm afraid that this one didn't grab me either. Maybe Mahler just isn't for me? I think I'll leave this particular side road for now, but thats not to say I'll never come back for another look-see.

However, I do have to thank you for taking the time to give me the help and encouragement with this. It is very much appreciated. That goes for everyone who has offered help and advice.

A small update, if I may?

I finally got around to listening to Beethoven's 9th Symphony all the way through, and my word. Thats going to take some sinking in. I liked it. I liked it a lot. But its just so huge. If Beethoven was a TV show, this would be the series finale - lets throw everything we have at it and just go out on a bang. This one will definitely take a few more run throughs I think.

Staying with Beethoven, the Egmont Overture was another hit for me. I loved it. Can this man compose anything that I don't like? I'm sure I'm come across a dud sooner or later, but for now his hit rate is 100%.

I've also been able to listen to Dvorak's 9th Symphony and I really really liked this one too. Not so keen on the second movement but everything else I thought was excellent. Though this was on vinyl from the boxset I mentioned above, and I am really disappointed in the quality. Everything sounds like its playing in the next room, so I've popped this piece into my Spotify playlist and given it a go on my headphones. Much better!  ;D
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 29, 2016, 10:19:31 AM
'From the New World' is a great symphony, glad you liked it.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Jo498 on April 29, 2016, 01:03:36 PM
It's unlikely that you will dislike any well-known orchestral piece by Beethoven if you like the one's you liked so far although you might not be impressed equally by all of them. Despite the "heaven-storming" heroic clichee that is fulfilled by pieces like Egmont or the 9th symphony there are surprisingly many lyrical and humorous pieces by Beethoven, e.g. the 4th symphony or the 4th piano concerto.
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: Scion7 on April 29, 2016, 05:16:25 PM
Very sorry you didn't like "Song of the Earth." 

Generally speaking, Beethoven's music is rhythmically driven (with major exceptions) whereas generally speaking, Mahler's music is more lyrical in the manner of Brahms (with major exceptions).

If you like the Adagio from Beethoven's 7th symphony, I would hope you could appreciate the (only completed portion) of Mahler's tenth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PQT5IK8mwA

- additionally, for a taste of Mahlerian driving rhythm (which you also heard in the opening of "Song of the Earth") you can try his fifth:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSepvjZzpkg

And if that doesn't grab you, maybe the ninth?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjYs99atLUI

After this, I'm spent.    :P
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: jochanaan on May 02, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 29, 2016, 05:16:25 PM...If you like the Adagio from Beethoven's 7th symphony...
Sorry, but my inner geek won't let that pass.  The second movement of B7 is Allegretto, not Adagio. :)
Title: Re: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: RebLem on October 23, 2016, 09:59:15 PM
Quote from: mellis107 on April 08, 2016, 10:41:22 PM
A little bit of an update.

I tried a bit of Mahler, namely the 2nd Symphony. I'm afraid to say that I didn't care for it. There didn't seem to be anything for me to latch onto. Maybe I started in the wrong place. Would there be a better introduction to Mahler? Perhaps moving away from the symphonies?

Last night I gave Sibelious 5th Symphony a go, and really liked it. Not as immediately impactful as Beethoven's 5th, and in many ways a calmer experience, but there is plenty to enjoy here. I've listened a couple of times, and I'll hopefully have time to give it another run through at some point today.

EDIT: Just to say that it was a second recording of the 5th that I enjoyed more than the first one I found. Obviously, I don't have enough knowledge to know why this was so, but there you go.

Mahler didn't write much except the symphonies.  The Resurrection is my favorite.  Try the Klemperer recording, and the Kubelik set.  For other things, there's Das Lied von der Erde (The Song of the Earth), with Ferrier, Conducted by Bruno Walter, and a few other works.
Title: Newbie Here Looking For Direction
Post by: dylanesque on January 24, 2017, 11:55:40 AM
I'd go Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Mahler
Bach - Mass in B (Gardiner)
Mozart Jupiter( Mackerras)
Beethoven Symphony 3(Rattle)Symphony 5(Klieber)
Brahms Symphony 4 (Klieber)
Chopin Nocturnes ( Ashkenazy)
Mahler Symphony 4 (Maazel)


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