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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: amw on March 09, 2015, 02:52:24 AM

Title: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: amw on March 09, 2015, 02:52:24 AM
Any nice ladies who can sing this stuff without damaging my ears?

I've been spot sampling recordings of Frauenliebe on Qobuz. These are the results so far. Obviously, I'm not really finding what I'm looking for.
Good
?

Acceptable
Elisabeth Kulman
Juliane Banse (not really my type, but compelling)
Elly Ameling

Not good and/or Boring
Anne Sofie von Otter
Caroline Melzer
Phyllis Bryn-Julson
Bernarda Fink
Teresa Berganza
Michaela Kaune (could be 'acceptable' maybe)

Bad
Marie-Nicole Lemieux
Angelika Kirchschlager
Barbara Bonney
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
Arleen Auger
Miah Persson
Ann Murray

Pain-inducing
Kathleen Ferrier
Sarah Connolly
Waltraud Meier
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 03:12:01 AM
How do you like Baker's rendition?

https://www.youtube.com/v/7t2A8QDBoII
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Mandryka on March 09, 2015, 04:46:45 AM
Margaret Price, and above all Loraine Hunt Lieberson
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 09, 2015, 05:07:49 AM
None of those, huh? Hmmm. Well, how about Jesse Norman (lush voice, but a shot in the dark not knowing the problem with the others)? Sample on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/v/zRJnEsBolyY

What is it exactly you dislike about all of them? Are there any common threads?
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: springrite on March 09, 2015, 05:15:32 AM
My favourite is Fassbaender.
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Que on March 09, 2015, 09:20:40 AM
An all time clasic is Lotte Lehmann with Bruno Walter behind the piano. Firmly in the historical recordings category, but you might be surprised.

Probably not surprising that I would mention Elly Ameling, is it? :D Don't know it is available,  though...

And I would investigate Irmgard Seefried (Orfeo), if I were you - it has been on my wishlist forever. Orfeo has issued a box set in the mean time - might get that, I'm a fan....

Q

Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: amw on March 09, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 03:12:01 AM
How do you like Baker's rendition?

https://www.youtube.com/v/7t2A8QDBoII
Probably would end up in the 'Not good' category; if Dame Janet could keep the vibrato in check it would be bumped up to acceptable or better as she's definitely got the character down

Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 09, 2015, 05:07:49 AM
None of those, huh? Hmmm. Well, how about Jesse Norman (lush voice, but a shot in the dark not knowing the problem with the others)? Sample on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/v/zRJnEsBolyY

What is it exactly you dislike about all of them? Are there any common threads?
Didn't go into detail at the time because I was tired and wanted to go to sleep... now that it's morning: The most common offenses are (a) continuous vibrato, (b) wide vibrato and (c) not shaping phrases with sufficient care. (I don't know much about voices, I just know what I like :\ )

Not really a fan of Jessye Norman's account—not sure I'd describe her voice as 'lush' either.

Quote from: Que on March 09, 2015, 09:20:40 AM
An all time clasic is Lotte Lehmann with Bruno Walter behind the piano. Firmly in the historical recordings category, but you might be surprised.

Probably not surprising that I would mention Elly Ameling, is it? :D Don't know it is available,  though...

And I would investigate Irmgard Seefried (Orfeo), if I were you - it has been on my wishlist forever. Orfeo has issued a box set in the mean time - might get that, I'm a fan....
Based on what I heard, I think I might be better off investigating your least favourite recordings ;)

LHL & Fassbaender are not for me in this repertoire (I don't mind LHL in more modern stuff, sometimes).

Hope this helps?
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Que on March 09, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: amw on March 09, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Based on what I heard, I think I might be better off investigating your least favourite recordings ;)

I'm curious what you are looking for...  8)

Whatever it is, you seem to be running out of names!  ;)

Q
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: Que on March 09, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
I'm curious what you are looking for...  8)

Whatever it is, you seem to be running out of names!  ;)

Q

He needs a rendition with DFD!  ;)
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: betterthanfine on March 09, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: amw on March 09, 2015, 01:36:57 PM
Probably would end up in the 'Not good' category; if Dame Janet could keep the vibrato in check it would be bumped up to acceptable or better as she's definitely got the character down

Baker has recorded the cycle a few times, with various pianists. Perhaps one of her other accounts might be more to your taste?

I think this one with Martin Isepp on piano is the earliest one, which I enjoy very much:

[asin]B000GBERJ8[/asin]

And then there's a later one with Barenboim:

[asin]B000002SD7[/asin]
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: betterthanfine on March 09, 2015, 03:29:39 PM
Also worth a mention is Bernarda Fink, who is better than Baker in my opinion, although you might find her vibrato a bit much.

[asin]B0012OQZXY[/asin]

Edit: never mind, I see you've considered her already, to no avail. ;)
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: amw on March 09, 2015, 09:57:30 PM
Quote from: betterthanfine on March 09, 2015, 03:29:39 PM
Also worth a mention is Bernarda Fink, who is better than Baker in my opinion, although you might find her vibrato a bit much.
That's basically it. I will say she was one of the better ones I heard. Also I sampled a Fink recording with a different cover, so I may not have heard the one you posted, unless it's a reissue.

Sopranos & mezzos I like: Early Music Mafia (Sophie Daneman, Emma Kirkby, Montserrat Figuerras, Anonymous 4... etc... etc...), Contemporary Music Mafia (Sarah Maria Sun<3, Deborah Kayser, Juliet Fraser, Cathy Berberian... etc... also where I like Juliane Banse from, Kurtág & Holliger), Kiri Te Kanawa, Patricia Petibon, ... Frederica von Stade? Probably others I can't think of right now. I could swear there are more. Of course none of them have recorded Schumann that I know (I know Schumann demands a different style than say Mozart or Holliger, but really, Countess Almaviva should be able to sing this cycle with, like, zero adjustment. Oh well.) of so instead I'm looking through a bunch of names I either have never heard of or know I don't like.

Some of them might grow on me—I know I didn't like Banse at first, but gave her a chance because I like Kafka-Fragmente so much, and it turned out to be better than I was expecting. I'll listen to more than just 'Helft mir Schwestern' for some of the more promising ones. As the above list probably indicates, I'm totally willing to break all my self-imposed rules for the right woman.
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Que on March 09, 2015, 10:11:28 PM
Quote from: amw on March 09, 2015, 09:57:30 PM
I'm totally willing to break all my self-imposed rules for the right woman.

Quote of the week!!!  :D  Who wouldn't?  I did! ;D

But you haven't quite fully explained what kind of woman you are atually looking for? ::) (Apart from not too much vibrato)

Q
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 10:24:15 PM
Magdalena Kožená?

https://www.youtube.com/v/g0cxUtgTJMI
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: amw on March 09, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
Quote from: Que on March 09, 2015, 10:11:28 PM
But you haven't quite fully explained what kind of woman you are atually looking for? ::) (Apart from not too much vibrato)
Thought the list of singers I like might help show where I'm coming from?

(With the caveat that no singer, male or female, can ever be the equal of Sarah Vaughan)

Moonfish, will check her out later—I recall enjoying some of her Mahler, though not as much as I enjoyed Christian Gerhaher's contributions on the same album.
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Jo498 on March 10, 2015, 01:19:57 AM
I have not heard Ameling but she has less vibrato than many other singers of her generation. I have a recording with Lucia Popp and while I do not remember much about it (I frankly did not care so much for the music and the texts are also hard to ignore - sentimental patriarchy...) she might well be somewhat boring but also rather inoffensive in the vibrato department. It was a dirt cheap RCA disc, not sure about availability.
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: knight66 on March 10, 2015, 12:16:51 PM
Ok, I will give this a try, though all my favourite versions have already been junked, except I don't see any feedback on Margaret Price, who may suit you. Other than her, perhaps try Edith Mathis.

Mike
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: betterthanfine on March 10, 2015, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: amw on March 09, 2015, 09:57:30 PM
Countess Almaviva should be able to sing this cycle with, like, zero adjustment

How 'bout Lisa Della Casa?

http://www.youtube.com/v/c_X5SW14PmM

Although, again, I fear the vibrato won't be to your tastes (especially now that you've mentioned Kirkby and Figueras as favorites, both of whom I cannot stand ;) ). And yes, the Fink cd I linked to is a reissue.
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 11, 2015, 04:34:37 AM
The vibrato is the killer in terms of finding something for you. At first, I was leaning toward Jurinac, but I am not sure it will meet your tastes - here's a sample:
https://www.youtube.com/v/7Imlx3GZ_W8

Fassbaender is good rec (one I had forgotten). Here is a sample of her singing (less vibrato, but not sure if you will find it too much, though the approach is more understated):
https://www.youtube.com/v/w9CO6kKfigk
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Que on March 11, 2015, 10:56:33 AM
Quote from: amw on March 09, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
Thought the list of singers I like might help show where I'm coming from?

I'm afraid not... ::) It is just a long and very diverse list of performances singers you don't like.
I share your admiration for Juliane Banse (in general), but she uses vibrato! ??? That doesn't make any sense....

BTW I think vibrato is perfectly normal in Romantic music. Perhaps not in Baroque, but in Romantic music I am definitely Old School...
Schumann without vibrato? That is like a car without wheels... in my humble, strictly personal opinion 8)

Q
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: betterthanfine on March 11, 2015, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: Que on March 11, 2015, 10:56:33 AM
I'm afraid not... ::) It is just a long and very diverse list of performances singers you don't like.
I share your admiration for Juliane Banse (in general), but she uses vibrato! ??? That doesn't make any sense....

BTW I think vibrato is perfectly normal in Romantic music. Perhaps not in Baroque, but in Romantic music I am definitely Old School...
Schumann without vibrato? That is like a car without wheels... in my humble, strictly personal opinion 8)

Q
Well, in amw's defence: he objected to continuous and/or wide vibrato, not the use of it in general. Kirkby and Figueras sing with vibrato as well, they just use it sparingly.

I agree with you otherwise. ;)
Title: Re: Schumann: Frauenliebe und Leben & other songs for soprano or mezzo
Post by: Marc on March 13, 2015, 04:04:58 AM
In this repertoire, I like Elly Ameling and Lucia Popp.

My tuppence worth.