GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 05:20:27 AM

Poll
Question: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Option 1: R.Kraus 1949 (Cologne)
Option 2: Kna' 1951 (Bayreuth, Decca/Teldec)
Option 3: Krauss 1953 (Bayreuth)
Option 4: Kna' 1954 (Bayreuth)
Option 5: Kna' 1956 (Bayreuth)
Option 6: Kna' 1959 (Bayreuth)
Option 7: Karajan 1961 (Vienna, RCA)
Option 8: Kna' 1962 (Bayreuth, Philips)
Option 9: Kna' 1964 (Bayreuth; last Kna-perf. on hill)
Option 10: Boulez 1966 (Bayreuth)
Option 11: Boulez 1970 (Bayreuth, DG)
Option 12: Solti 1971/2 (Vienna, Decca) [1st studio recording]
Option 13: Kegel 1975 (Leipzig, Eterna)
Option 14: Karajan 1979/80 (Berlin, DG) [studio]
Option 15: Kubelik 1980 (Munich, Arts Achives) [studio]
Option 16: Jordan 1981 (Monte-Carlo, Erato) [studio]
Option 17: Goodall 1984 (Welsh NO, EMI) [studio]
Option 18: Levine 1985 (Bayreuth, Philips)
Option 19: Barenboim 1989/90 (Berlin, Teldec) [studio]
Option 20: Levine 1992 (NY, DG) [studio]
Option 21: Thielemann 2005 (Vienna, DG)
Option 22: Gergiev 2009 (Petersburg, Mariinsky)
Option 23: Janowski 2012 (Berlin, Pentatone)
Option 24: Other
Title: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 05:20:27 AM
Not all, but most serious contenders (and then some) have been included. Major labels noted; gray-area labels are not. Also not included are recordings that never made it onto CD, be it from a video format or from LP.


Edit: The poll has been reset because of the Boulez-error caught below... and to give Sarge a chance to vote his favorites.  :)
Thanks for re-voting if you already had.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 24, 2016, 05:59:01 AM
I've voted for Boulez '70, Kegel, Kubelik, Clemens Krauss, and Knappertsbusch '52 (which in my case actually would be Knappertsbusch '51 on Decca).

Regards,

Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Mirror Image on November 24, 2016, 06:00:21 AM
Shouldn't this be in the 'Polling Station' section of the forum?
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: The new erato on November 24, 2016, 06:03:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 24, 2016, 06:00:21 AM
Shouldn't this be in the 'Polling Station' section of the forum?
I wish Jens would poll himself together!
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Mirror Image on November 24, 2016, 06:05:54 AM
Quote from: The new erato on November 24, 2016, 06:03:46 AM
I wish Jens would poll himself together!

:P
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: kishnevi on November 24, 2016, 06:06:23 AM
Kna. 54
Kna. 62
Solti
Kubelik

Leaving the fifth slot open  because I have not heard several of the leading contenders.

But dishonorable mention for Boulez, my least favorite recording.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 06:32:48 AM
Quote from: ritter on November 24, 2016, 05:59:01 AM
I've voted for Boulez '70, Kegel, Kubelik, Clemens Krauss, and Knappertsbusch '52 (which in my case actually would be Knappertsbusch '51 on Decca).

Regards,

You are right; it should be Kna'51 on Decca/Telarc. Poll adjusted to that effect.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 24, 2016, 06:33:59 AM
Karajan DG
Boulez
Barenboim

and two that aren't on the list

Knappertsbusch Bayreuth '51
Knappertsbusch Bayreuth '64 with Jon Vickers


Edit: I didn't see your correction until after I'd voted  :(

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 06:32:48 AM
You are right; it should be Kna'51 on Decca/Telarc. Poll adjusted to that effect.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Todd on November 24, 2016, 06:42:42 AM
Fluffy '80
Krauss
Boulez
Barenboim
Kna '62
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 06:43:17 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 24, 2016, 06:33:59 AM
Karajan DG
Boulez
Barenboim

and two that aren't on the list

Knappertsbusch Bayreuth '51
Knappertsbusch Bayreuth '64 with Jon Vickers


Edit: I didn't see your correction until after I'd voted  :(

And further, I've added the '64 Kna. If you want to vote for it, it's worth being on the poll. Is there a way I can make you vote again?
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 24, 2016, 07:32:01 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 06:43:17 AM
And further, I've added the '64 Kna. If you want to vote for it, it's worth being on the poll. Is there a way I can make you vote again?

I don't know a way to vote again, or amend a vote.

Sarge
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 24, 2016, 09:08:24 AM
I've just realized that the Boulez that appears on the list is the (bootleg) 1966 recording. Surely you meant the 1970 recording on DG,  Jens?
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: ritter on November 24, 2016, 09:08:24 AM
I've just realized that the Boulez that appears on the list is the (bootleg) 1966 recording. Surely you meant the 1970 recording on DG,  Jens?

I meant BOTH, but yes, the one I favor is the 1970 of course. OK... RESET.

Gives Sarge a chance to get it right. Sorry for the hassle to those who voted already; I hope you'll vote again!
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Turner on November 24, 2016, 10:05:18 AM
I´ve only got Barenboim, Karajan & Solti, the first two ones are favourites by far, so voted for them.

Also had a Kna, but didn´t really enjoy it.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 24, 2016, 11:18:52 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 09:58:26 AM
Gives Sarge a chance to get it right.

Yes, I'll vote again. Thanks.

Karajan DG
Boulez 70 DG
Barenboim
Knappertsbusch '51
Knappertsbusch '64
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on November 24, 2016, 07:20:10 PM
Barenboim for one, and of the three Knappertsbusch's I've had ('51, '62, '64) only the '62 Philips remains. Can't beat that superb sound.

One other correction on the poll list: the Kna '51 should read Decca/Teldec, not Telarc.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 10:28:39 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 24, 2016, 07:20:10 PM
Barenboim for one, and of the three Knappertsbusch's I've had ('51, '62, '64) only the '62 Philips remains. Can't beat that superb sound.

One other correction on the poll list: the Kna '51 should read Decca/Teldec, not Telarc.

Mistake? What mistake!  ;D
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 24, 2016, 11:22:22 PM
I've submitted my vote again...unchanged (Kna '51, Krauss '53, Boulez, Kegel, Kubelik).

I've been debating whether to choose Knappertsbusch 1951 or 1962...I finally went for the former, given its "historic" value (the reopening of Bayreuth after the war) and for Martha Mödl's Kundry. And I really find Hans Hotter's Gurnemanz in the '62 version insufferable (*runs for cover*)...
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 25, 2016, 03:03:12 AM
Quote from: ritter on November 24, 2016, 11:22:22 PM
I've submitted my vote again...unchanged (Kna '51, Krauss '53, Boulez, Kegel, Kubelik).
Thanks!

QuoteAnd I really find Hans Hotter's Gurnemanz in the '62 version insufferable (*runs for cover*)...
How dare you. May the Hotterian Gods smite you!!!  :o  ;)

Heck, I dropped Karajan for less a reason. I wonder if my Kna' choice  (I picked Kna'62, Boulez, Kubelik, Barenboim, Thielemann (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/05/domingo-notwithstanding-this-is.html) [rather than Kegel, as I initially hinted at]) would still stand, if I listened to it just now and compared it to, say, Jaap van Zweden.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 25, 2016, 03:12:43 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 25, 2016, 03:03:12 AM
Thanks!
How dare you. May the Hotterian Gods smite you!!!  :o  ;)

Heck, I dropped Karajan for less a reason. I wonder if my Kna' choice  (I picked Kna'62, Boulez, Kubelik, Barenboim, Thielemann (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/05/domingo-notwithstanding-this-is.html) [rather than Kegel, as I initially hinted at]) would still stand, if I listened to it just now and compared it to, say, Jaap van Zweden.
I got the Zweden dirt cheap at Dussmann in Berlin, as a memento of a performance of Parsifal at the Deutsche Oepr I had seen the evening before (with Vogt, Herlitzius, Marco-Buhrmester--all wonderful--and Salminen as Gurnemenz--very disppointing--, conducted by Runnicles). I do apprecaite (with some caveats) Vogt's portrayal, I think Dalayman, Struckmann and Holl are all fine, but I find the conductor's approach to the score too solemn and ponderous. Not my kind of Parsifal... :(

I'm surprised, actually, because I found Zweden's Rheingold from Hong Kong a vastly superior affair, and one which makes me look forward to his recently released Walküre.

Nice to see one vote for the underrated Armin Jordan. A very enjoyable reading of the score, with a sweet-toned Rainer Goldberg, the ever-intelligent Yvonne Minton and a great Gurnemanz in Robert Lloyd. It almost made my list...
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on November 25, 2016, 07:21:11 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 24, 2016, 10:28:39 PM
Mistake? What mistake!  ;D

Not that it makes a huge difference. :)
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: kishnevi on November 25, 2016, 04:55:58 PM
Revoted, but the same as before.  Boulez remains least favorite. But I see that I ought to get around to listening to Barenboim one of these decades. I have the box of his Wagner, just not listened to it.

I will say that my opinion of the Solti recording is so high I am baffled that no one else has voted for him.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: mc ukrneal on November 25, 2016, 05:23:16 PM
I didn't like Barenboim, but it was a while ago since I heard it (my library had it). But the Karajan is a bit love/hate for me too. There are exquisite parts, but then there are moments that are...less so. But Kubelik is the one I want - I have the Meistersinger and it is fabulous. I'd also like to hear the Solit. Kegel is a new one for me, so interested to do a bit of snooping around that one...
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Wendell_E on November 26, 2016, 01:54:15 AM
Quote from: ritter on November 25, 2016, 03:12:43 AM
Nice to see one vote for the underrated Armin Jordan. A very enjoyable reading of the score, with a sweet-toned Rainer Goldberg, the ever-intelligent Yvonne Minton and a great Gurnemanz in Robert Lloyd. It almost made my list...

That vote was me, but then I only voted for three recordings, because that's all I've heard.  ;D And I've actually only heard it while watching the Syberberg film.

Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 26, 2016, 02:27:49 AM
Quote from: Wendell_E on November 26, 2016, 01:54:15 AM
That vote was me, but then I only voted for three recordings, because that's all I've heard.  ;D And I've actually only heard it while watching the Syberberg film.
A magnificent film, Syberberg's!  :)
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Barbebleu on November 28, 2016, 02:06:57 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 25, 2016, 05:23:16 PM
I didn't like Barenboim, but it was a while ago since I heard it (my library had it). But the Karajan is a bit love/hate for me too. There are exquisite parts, but then there are moments that are...less so. But Kubelik is the one I want - I have the Meistersinger and it is fabulous. I'd also like to hear the Solit. Kegel is a new one for me, so interested to do a bit of snooping around that one...

The Kegel is good but very quick  He doesn't dwell on it too much but there's room for all sorts of interpretations so you might like it.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Mandryka on November 28, 2016, 06:02:10 AM
Kna's last because of the story about someone dangling a picture of some doves in front of his face at the end because he absolutely couldn't conduct it unless he saw a dove. Also because of the extraordinary way Vickers does the final sill syllable of "Enthüllet den Gral! - Öffnet den Schrein!"  in the last act at the end, introducing a long imaginative diminuendo which blends  with the orchestra magically.

The Syberberg film because it needs that sort of thing to spice it up. I especially like the androgynous stuff because I do.

Goodall because I saw him do it on a disastrous night in London, when Parsifal's costume started to fall apart in the last act, and he wondered around the stage singing  dragging around stuff from his armour . Embarrassing for audience and no doubt for singer (Siegfried Jerusalem) So the recording always makes me think of that.

Karajan because of the unforgettable sight of Peter Hoffman almost naked in the second act in Covent Garden, the most sexy thing I've seen in an opera apart from some S and M style Verdi in Berlin.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on November 28, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 28, 2016, 06:02:10 AM
Kna's last because of the story about someone dangling a picture of some doves in front of his face at the end because he absolutely couldn't conduct it unless he saw a dove.

No, it was Kna's first at the reopening of Bayreuth after the war (1951). He didn't want the dove visible for himself - he objected to it being eliminated from the Wieland-inspired minimalist staging, feeling it was an integral part of the work/audience experience.   

As a makeshift, the dove was supposed to be hung by twine and lowered appropriately for the audience to see but Wieland shorted the twine and only Kna could see it.

Afterwards, in response, Kna placed some extra twine on Wieland's desk.
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 28, 2016, 07:24:56 AM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 28, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
No, it was Kna's first at the reopening of Bayreuth after the war (1951). He didn't want the dove visible for himself - he objected to it being eliminated from the Wieland-inspired minimalist staging, feeling it was an integral part of the work/audience experience.   

As a makeshift, the dove was supposed to be hung by twine and lowered appropriately for the audience to see but Wieland shorted the twine and only Kna could see it.

Afterwards, in response, Kna placed some extra twine on Wieland's desk.

That's a fantastic anecdote. :-)

Just bought Antoine Golea's "Conversations with Wieland Wagner" (http://amzn.to/2ft0kIc), which a Wagner-maven colleague of mine recommended highly, but haven't started on it yet. Do you know it?

(Also available in French. (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fvqDJniJWuw/TAa6BffiUWI/AAAAAAAABGM/nXlVjGVAXsM/s320/Amazon_FR_rect15_Txt.png) (http://amzn.to/2gbefld))
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 28, 2016, 07:26:23 AM
Hey, who thinks that Levine's interminable MET Parsifal is the bee's knees?  :D
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 28, 2016, 07:32:59 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 28, 2016, 07:24:56 AM

Just bought Antoine Golea's "Conversations with Wieland Wagner" (http://amzn.to/2ft0kIc), which a Wagner-maven colleague of mine recommended highly, but haven't started on it yet. Do you know it?

No...but wishlisted. Thanks!... It must be said, though, that Goléa's book on Boulez is an example of uncritical flattery--even the rabid Boulezian in me must admit that  8). As an anecdote, it created some uncomfortable situations with Vera Stravinsky when it was being offered for sale in the foyer of the Théâtre des Champs-Elysées during the disastrous Paris pernière of Threni in 1958  ::)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 28, 2016, 07:26:23 AM
Hey, who thinks that Levine's interminable MET Parsifal is the bee's knees?  :D
Longer than the 1985 Bayreuth ??? ?? Jesus Maria!

Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on November 28, 2016, 03:58:16 PM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 28, 2016, 07:24:56 AM
Just bought Antoine Golea's "Conversations with Wieland Wagner" (http://amzn.to/2ft0kIc), which a Wagner-maven colleague of mine recommended highly, but haven't started on it yet. Do you know it?

No, haven't read it myself but I'd be curious to know what you think of it!
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: ritter on November 29, 2016, 05:58:18 AM
Just orderd a copy of the original French edition of Antoine Goléa's book of conversations with Wieland Wagner:

(https://pmcdn.priceminister.com/photo/entretiens-avec-wieland-wagner-de-antoine-golea-1072014164_L.jpg)
As an anecdote, the seller indicates that this copy has a stamp indicating it belonged to the library of none other than Wieland's mother, Winifred Wagner.  ;)
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: JCBuckley on November 29, 2016, 07:06:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 28, 2016, 06:02:10 AM

Goodall because I saw him do it on a disastrous night in London, when Parsifal's costume started to fall apart in the last act, and he wondered around the stage singing  dragging around stuff from his armour . Embarrassing for audience and no doubt for singer (Siegfried Jerusalem) So the recording always makes me think of that.



I was there too. A bizarre night, with Siegfried Jerusalem (an emergency replacement for Warren Ellsworth) singing in German while everyone else communicated in English. And a truly dreadful production: for the first scene, as I recall, the stage was strewn with what looked like gigantic lengths of asparagus; and Klingsor had a flying tricycle, didn't he?
Title: Re: What are your Top 5 Recordings of Parsifal?
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 29, 2016, 07:39:13 AM
Quote from: ritter on November 29, 2016, 05:58:18 AM
Just orderd a copy of the original French edition of Antoine Goléa's book of conversations with Wieland Wagner:

[img 240]https://pmcdn.priceminister.com/photo/entretiens-avec-wieland-wagner-de-antoine-golea-1072014164_L.jpg[/img]
As an anecdote, the seller indicates that this copy has a stamp indicating it belonged to the library of none other than Wieland's mother, Winifred Wagner.  ;)

Oh, how nice!! In a way. 'Winifred's own'. I'm reading my tattered German copy now, which is falling apart. In part because I wanted to see if Grace Bumbry appears. (She does, ever so briefly.) Mostly Antoine Golea is busy explaining to Wieland Wagner the meaning of Wieland Wagner's productions and where they fall short. It's an exasperating between obsequiousness and narcissism that we are no longer used to (but Germany/France, 1960s were different times), but it's very worthwhile for Wieland's patient and, one imagines, coyly indulgent parts.