GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Que on July 27, 2007, 05:52:19 AM

Title: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on July 27, 2007, 05:52:19 AM
Let's give Italian Baroque music also a proper home on this forum - Vivaldi already has his own thread: Vivaldi recordings (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.0.html).
Please post your recommendations and questions on Italian Baroque. We'll see how it goes.... ::)


(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7932249.jpg)
                      Audio Clips (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7932249/rk/classic/rsk/offers)

Besides the beautiful cover and the fact that Ottavio Danone now seems enlisted with Decca,
the unusual repertoire also caught my eye. It's rather new, but does anyone already know it?

Q

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: 71 dB on July 27, 2007, 06:30:25 AM
Corelli, Locatelli, A. & D. Scarlatti, Carissimi, Caldara, Albinoni,...

Here is 2 less known Italian baroque composers on Naxos Label.
Good performances by Le Concert Sprituel/Hervé Niquet

Orazio Benevolo (1605-1672)



Paolo Lorenzani (1640-1713)

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JUB4bZJJL._SS500.jpg)

This is my favorite "Christmas" CD. Concertos and Cantatas by Stradella, Marcello, Scarlatti, Albinoni and Corelli. I especially like Stefan Schilli's Oboe playing.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 27, 2007, 06:32:06 AM
Arguably D. Scarlatti should be considered a Spanish rather than Italian composer.  He would have never wrote the music he did had he remained in Italy
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on July 27, 2007, 06:35:54 AM
Here is 2 less known Italian baroque composers on Naxos Label.
Good performances by Le Concert Sprituel/Hervé Niquet

I've been greatly impressed by Niquet in the French repertoire, thanks 71 dB! :)

Arguably D. Scarlatti should be considered a Spanish rather than Italian composer.  He would have never wrote the music he did had he remained in Italy

Maybe we should include Spanish Baroque in this thread? :)

BTW, was Dominico Scarlatti influenced by Spanish Baroque or did he write in that style IYO?

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Tancata on July 27, 2007, 06:57:59 AM
Well, there is also Claudio Monteverdi, who doesn't have his own thread at the moment (he's a baroque composer, right?  :P).

Some recommendations for the operas:

Rene Jacobs' DVD of L'Orfeo. Minimalist staging with lots of well-executed dancing, great performance with Simon Keenleyside an excellent Orfeo (better than Anthony Rolfe Johnson for Gardiner or Ian Bostridge for Emmanuelle Haim).

William Christie's DVD of Il ritorno d'Ulisse in patria - superb use of "singing actors" rather than pure singers to bring the drama to life.

For the 1610 Vespers, two excellent and contrasting versions are Robert King on Hyperion, which is a superb "standard" version - excellent singing and playing. Paul McCreesh on Archiv is quite different, using a very sparse continuo much of the time and fewer singers - a more risky performance but very memorable.

A question: What good DVD versions of L'incoronazione di Poppea exist? I have the Rene Jacobs one from 1993 and it's alright, but I don't like the drab production or some of the singing (Nerone is transposed down to the tenor range altering the effect of his duets with Poppea, and Jeffrey Gall is a weird choice for Ottone).

Is the Pierre Audi Monteverdi cycle any good?

Apologies if this post stretches the definition of the Italian baroque...  8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on July 27, 2007, 07:29:52 AM
Well, there is also Claudio Monteverdi, who doesn't have his own thread at the moment (he's a baroque composer, right?  :P).

General opion is that Monteverdi was a transitional figure who qualifies as a Renaissance and a Baroque composer.
So he is more than welcome! ;D And so are your recommendations. :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: 71 dB on July 27, 2007, 07:49:32 AM
I've been greatly impressed by Niquet in the French repertoire, thanks 71 dB! :)

No problem Que!

I've been greatly impressed by Niquet in the French repertoire too.  ;)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 27, 2007, 07:58:56 AM


Maybe we should include Spanish Baroque in this thread? :)

BTW, was Dominico Scarlatti influenced by Spanish Baroque or did he write in that style IYO?

Q

Its hard to say.  Probably Spanish folk musics were the stronger influence (but of course they also influenced other Spanish baroque composers).   There is alot of guitar strumming in Scarlatti's keyboard pieces.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 27, 2007, 08:18:23 AM
Arguably D. Scarlatti should be considered a Spanish rather than Italian composer.  He would have never wrote the music he did had he remained in Italy

Actually, i think a certain amount of his sonatas date from before his Spanish period so, no. There's a lot of the Italian in the music of Scarlatti, more then it's given credit for. The problem is that Italian composers preferred the medium of the concerto rather then the keyboard, so it's easy to miss the connection, but just listen to Bach's concerto in the Italian style and you'll notice quite a few similarities with a lot of Scarlatti's sonatas.

If you want a comparison take k69 (where the influence of Spanish music is quite clear) and then listen to k70, which is a toccata in a clear Italian voice.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on July 27, 2007, 08:31:04 AM
Let's give Italian Baroque music also a proper home on this forum - Vivaldi already has his own thread: Vivaldi recordings (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.0.html).
Please post your recommendations and questions on Italian Baroque. We'll see how it goes.... ::)


(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7932249.jpg)
                      Audio Clips (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7932249/rk/classic/rsk/offers)

Besides the beautiful cover and the fact that Ottavio Danone now seems enlisted with Decca,
the unusual repertoire also caught my eye. It's rather new, but does anyone already know it?

Q




Its on my order list Que, and what I heard of it, its darn good. Also 9.99 euro for a SACD.
I saw it announced a few weeks ago. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on July 27, 2007, 09:00:26 AM
Que, adding to this thread is the following excellent recording of these Italian composers:

On Capriccio, 3 discs full with goodies.

Angelo Ragazzi
Giuseppe Antonio Avitrano.
Francesco Barbella.
Pietro Marchitelli.
Nicola Fiorenza.
Emanuelle Barbella.

I bet you did not know those names, now did you?
This is fine music my friend, and for the budget price I bought it for at JPC, is a true bargain.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on July 27, 2007, 09:03:26 AM
O, and before I forget, I must post this beauty too, again a unknown composer for you, but boy what fine music. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Steve on July 27, 2007, 09:18:32 AM
Excellent thread, Que  :)

I would add to the fine list already here a performance of the Concerti Grossi of Corelli

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Scriptavolant on July 27, 2007, 12:18:05 PM
There is another quite good recording of Corelli's Concerti Grossi, which is the one with Biondi and Europa Galante.

(http://www.filomusica.com/filo41/corelli.jpg)

Some fine disc I would recommend are:

Pietro Castrucci, Concerti Grossi Op.3. Not an innovator, but a skillful craftsman. These works are notably tuneful and pleasing.

Another one is Alessandro Scarlatti, 6 Concerti Grossi. Very fine recording also on a purely audio-quality point of view.

For what concerns the more general issue, I think there are a couple of names which cannot be set aside when speaking about Italian Baroque.
Francesco Geminiani (http://www.baroquemusic.org/bqxgem.html) (1687-1762) and Giuseppe Torelli  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Torelli)(1658-1709).
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 27, 2007, 01:35:45 PM
A few of my own favorite, off-the-beaten-path IB composers include Marcello, Bonporti and Geminiani. All 3 produced some very nice concerti, ala Corelli. Another, more well known, is Locatelli, whose Op 3  "L'Arte del Violono" pretty much says all you need to know about the state of the art in violin playing in the first half of the 18th century. :)

I'll look up the recordings I have of the first 3 tonight and link them. Not bad, not bad at all!

8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on July 28, 2007, 10:17:46 PM
Que, adding to this thread is the following excellent recording of these Italian composers:

On Capriccio, 3 discs full with goodies.

Angelo Ragazzi
Giuseppe Antonio Avitrano.
Francesco Barbella.
Pietro Marchitelli.
Nicola Fiorenza.
Emanuelle Barbella.

I bet you did not know those names, now did you?
This is fine music my friend, and for the budget price I bought it for at JPC, is a true bargain.

Thans for the rec. Harry! Of course I'd just like to know... ;D are those recordings on period instruments?

There is another quite good recording of Corelli's Concerti Grossi, which is the one with Biondi and Europa Galante.

Another one is Alessandro Scarlatti, 6 Concerti Grossi. Very fine recording also on a purely audio-quality point of view.

The Biondi/Corelli recording seems a winner!
Very interested in Alessandro Scarlatti. And Dantone and his group are very good.

Speaking of wich - I was wondering: Any comments on this new Corelli violin sonatas recording?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7047514.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7047514/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist)
              click picture for link

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2007, 10:22:18 PM
Thans for the rec. Harry! Of course I'd just like to know... ;D are those recordings on period instruments

Q

It is not mentioned Que, but they sound like it, and a look at their instruments make me think so, but I will look on their website, to get a confirmation of that.
Goodmorning to you my friend. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 29, 2007, 03:19:48 AM
Excellent thread, Que  :)

I would add to the fine list already here a performance of the Concerti Grossi of Corelli

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y9EP2K6JL._AA240_.jpg)



That's actually one of the finest recordings Pinnock as ever made. A great companion to his Handel's Op.6, which were written after the style of Corelli in the first place...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 29, 2007, 07:05:34 AM
Q - wanted to check my classical music database just to 'see' which composers I had from this era; below is my current list (a few are on either end of the transition, assuming a time period of 1600-1750 or so is considered the guideline):

A number of these composers have already been posted, and there are more mentioned, esp. by 71 dB & Harry, that I need to checkout myself:

Albinoni, Tomaso (1671-1751)
Allegri, Gregoria (1582-1652)
Bonporti, Francesco (1672-1749)
Caldara, Antonio (1670-1736)
Corelli, Arcangelo (1653-1713)
Geminiani, Francesco (1687-1762)
Locatelli, Pietro (1695-1764)
Monteverdi, Claudio (1567-1643)
Scarlatti, Alessandro (1660-1725)
Scarlatti, Domenico (1685-1757)
Tartini, Giuseppe (1692-1770)
Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741)

Except for Vivaldi (of course), probably the one above that I have the most discs is Pietro Locatelli (bought a bunch from BRO last year -  ;D):

Concerti Grossi, Op. 1; L'Arte del Violino; Sonatas, Op. 8; Flute Sonatas, Op. 2 & 5 - these are all multi-disc sets (first 3 from Hyperion & the flute works on Brilliant); plus, there are plenty more available on him that likely warrant consideration -  :D

(http://www.cd-classics.omskcity.com/Hyperion/hyperion66.jpg)  (http://www.cd-classics.omskcity.com/Hyperion/hyperion67.jpg)

(http://members.tripod.com/~go54321/67021.jpg)  (http://www.cd-classics.omskcity.com/Brilliant/brilliant092.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 28, 2007, 09:29:16 AM
Speaking of wich - I was wondering: Any comments on this new Corelli violin sonatas recording?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7047514.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7047514/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist)
              click picture for link

Q

They must have read my request at Classicstoday.... ;D

Q

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARCANGELO CORELLI
12 Violin Sonatas Op. 5
Stefano Montanari (violin) Accademia Bizantina, Ottavio Dantone
Arts Music- 47724-8(SACD)
Reference Recording - Melkus (Archiv), Kuijken (Accent), Holloway (Novalis)


Add yet another wonderful performance to the growing list of recordings of Arcangelo Corelli's glorious Op. 5 Violin Sonatas. In fact, this is the Accademia Bizantina's second cycle on CD (the first was recorded for Frequenz in 1990 as part of the group's complete Corelli edition), and in some respects it surpasses that otherwise excellent previous effort. For instance, violin soloist Stefano Montanari is more lucid and stylishly adept at drawing out the work's chromatic and rhythmic possibilities than the group's former director and violin soloist Carlo Chiarappa.

As with the Accademia Bizantina's earlier recording, the ensemble's conductor/harpsichordist Ottavio Dantone (who played the harpsichord as well as organ during the Frequenz sessions) has wisely chosen to opt for a full continuo (Corelli scored the sonatas for violin, viola da gamba, and harpsichord, though was known to encourage the use of additional instrumentation), occasionally supplemented by a second violin, archlute, and baroque guitar. Unlike its earlier effort, the superior engineering on this Arts SACD allows us to hear the often-luxurious array of instrumental timbres with far greater clarity and sonic richness. All told, this outstanding achievement must be ranked among the top period-instrument performances of these works to date. [2/1/2007]


--John Green


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on August 29, 2007, 04:13:34 AM
Heartily recommended.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/4199RVYCKXL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/413FNPK3HEL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41671CMCS8L._AA240_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515XB1nqUZL._SS500_.jpg) (http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b8/ca/a3d0b220dca01a043e219010.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on September 01, 2007, 09:48:18 PM
Heartily recommended.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b8/ca/a3d0b220dca01a043e219010.L.jpg)


Florestan, I absolutely second your recommendation for that recording, the others I unfortunately don't know. Antonio Caldara is a very interesting composer of the Neapolitan school.
I'll check out your other recommendations on him! :) And the Bonporti looks mighty interesting too - I very much like the violin repertoire.

This is what I posted about this recording on the old forum:

Quote
Really excellent music and superb performance.
The music is much, much more exciting than the rather solemn title suggests!
Another worthy baroque composer. For those who, like I did, don't know Caldara: think Pergolesi and Alessandro Scarlatti, not Vivaldi.

Those who like exploring (italian) baroque and/or fans of Jacobs needn't to hesitate - recommended.

A slight word of caution.
I got it in a bargain, so I'll get over it, but I bought the version without libretto  :
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b8/ca/a3d0b220dca01a043e219010.L.jpg)

This is the issue to get, which includes the libretto:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21RYYXXWZZL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on September 01, 2007, 11:34:44 PM
Strongly recommend these

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/5450302.jpg) (http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMC901855.jpg)

as well as anything written by Handel while he stayed in Rome...which I think belong in this thread.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on September 02, 2007, 09:26:27 PM
Bought this recently. Domenico Scarlatti's Stabat Mater and it's a masterpiece, no less! :)
Its style is rather special - it is polyphonic with a baroque twist, written for 10 independent voices.
I find the result very imaginative, not austere at all - surprisingly light.
Quite a special piece that is likely to suit the tastes of those into the likes of Monteverdi, Lasuss, Gesualdo, etc. Recommended for early music lovers!
Pictured are the original cover (right) and the cardboard slipcase (left), in which it has been reissued at midprice.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DDYGS4MXL.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on September 05, 2007, 10:44:27 PM
Had anyone already listened to this new issue on Brillaint Classics?
Recordings are from the Italian label Tactus (http://www.tactus.biz/store/), which is excellent and specializes in early music.

Harry? :)



Alessandro Scarlatti
Cantatas, Duets and Intermezzos for Palandrana and Zamberlucco.
Cristina Miatello, Claudio Cavina, Barbara di Castri, Gastone Sarti, Ensemble Aurora, Fortuna Ensemble etc.
Brilliant Classics 3cds


Q

I am afraid I missed this one, and that is unusual for me, especially if I see the content, which is very interesting for me. Is it newly released, for I never saw it announced any were. I knew they were doing something about a number of Tactus cd's, but there was no mention of a releasedate.
I will look on the Kruidvat site if I can find it, and if yes I will order it asap.
Thanks Que!

Edit. Found the recording on the Joan Records site, but nowhere else, so I could not order it yet. Tactus is a excellent label with many interesting releases to their name, so I look forward to this one.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on November 10, 2007, 12:29:41 AM
I already had an encounter with composer Antonio Lotti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Lotti), because his "Missa Sapientiae" (in the orchestration by Zelenka!) accompanies Bach's Magnificat on the recording by Thomas Hengelbrock.
I liked him then, but this really wins me over! :) Lotti influenced several German baroque composers - Bach for instance studied his music - and he taught Zelenka.
The Requiem is a most interesting and imaginative composition: it combines abundance en inventiveness, complete with "operatic" gestures, with touching, ethereal choral and solo singing. Instrumentation is suprising and idiosyncratic - I love the use of muted baroque trumpets! :) How to describe his music? I would place him somewhere near Pergolesi, Durante and Caldara, but he it has some clear "German(ic)" characteristics as well.
This is IMO first rate Italian baroque music - which can easily stand comparison with the composers I mentioned.

Flawless execution by Thomas Hengelbrock, who always impresses me his conducting of choral works - crystal clear and transparent, and his ensemble. They have done several recordings of works by Caldara, Astorga, Durante and Pergolesi.

Recommended! :)


Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: 71 dB on November 10, 2007, 01:42:44 AM
Thanks Que for your Lotti recommendation!

I know nothing about this composer but you got me interested so I added that CD to my wishlist.

 :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on December 26, 2007, 01:03:04 AM
There is another quite good recording of Corelli's Concerti Grossi, which is the one with Biondi and Europa Galante.

(http://www.filomusica.com/filo41/corelli.jpg)

Bumping this thread to heartily second this Corelli recording by Biondi. :)
A very fine recording indeed. I would have expected that Biondi would pull out all stops and go nuts - but this is surprisingly delicate, yet lively. Very nice.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 26, 2007, 07:55:41 AM
Thanks, Que - I missed the Lotti recommendation, but have added that 2-CD set to my 'to buy' list!  :D

I've not added much to my collection in this area in the last 6 months, except for the first two below:

Albinoni, Tomaso - Trio Sonatas, Op. 1 w/ Parnassi Musici - I really enjoy his music (now have about a half dozen discs)!

Scarlatti, Alessandro - Flute Concerti w/ Camerata Koln - getting more into AS's instrumental works -  :)

Now listening to Antonio Caldara - Christmas Cantata (must explore some of the other suggestions in this thread on Caldara!) -  8)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ETDHEFPHL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41P9N21ZEZL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://www.aradia.ca/images/caldarav.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on December 26, 2007, 09:14:01 AM
Thanks, Que - I missed the Lotti recommendation, but have added that 2-CD set to my 'to buy' list!  :D

I've not added much to my collection in this area in the last 6 months, except for the first two below:

Albinoni, Tomaso - Trio Sonatas, Op. 1 w/ Parnassi Musici - I really enjoy his music (now have about a half dozen discs)!

Scarlatti, Alessandro - Flute Concerti w/ Camerata Koln - getting more into AS's instrumental works -  :)

Now listening to Antonio Caldara - Christmas Cantata (must explore some of the other suggestions in this thread on Caldara!) -  8)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ETDHEFPHL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41P9N21ZEZL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://www.aradia.ca/images/caldarav.jpg)

Are you copying my collection Dave..... ;D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 26, 2007, 03:39:57 PM
Are you copying my collection Dave..... ;D

Hello, Harry - just getting back online (evening here in North Carolina) - LOL  ;D - good stuff, hey!  :) Dave
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Bogey on January 11, 2008, 10:18:21 PM
Had the opportunity to hear a piece from Alessandro Stradella (October 1, 1644 - February 25, 1682) tonight performed live.  The piece was titled: Motet: Exultate in Deo fideles.  The baritone was incredible  and was accompanied by three violins, cello, and harpsichord.  However, when I looked for a recording of this piece, I came up empty.  Anybody here have it or another work from this composer?  Thanks!

Here is a bit more on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Stradella
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on January 12, 2008, 01:31:48 AM
Had the opportunity to hear a piece from Alessandro Stradella (October 1, 1644 - February 25, 1682) tonight performed live.  The piece was titled: Motet: Exultate in Deo fideles.  The baritone was incredible  and was accompanied by three violins, cello, and harpsichord.  However, when I looked for a recording of this piece, I came up empty.  Anybody here have it or another work from this composer?  Thanks!

Here is a bit more on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Stradella

Bill, this disc on the small Italian label Bongiovanni (http://www.bongiovanni70.com/) is what I could find at Italian sources - best for this kind of rare repertoire. Check PM!! ;)

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/13/c4/c84a228348a02dfc3550e010.L.jpg)
ALESSANDRO STRADELLA (1639-1682) (Edizione critica a cura di Esteban Velardi)
SINFONIA in MI maggiore dalla cantata CRUDO MAR
EXULTATE IN DEO FIDELES  - mottetto per basso solo con violini per il Santissimo
SI APRA AL RISO OGNI LABBRO - cantata a 3 voci con gli strumenti per la Notte del S.S. Natale
TOCCATA in la minore per cembalo solo

AGOSTINO STEFFANI (1654 1728) (Edizione critica a cura di Esteban Velardi)
FILENO IDOLO MIO - cantata a canto solo con due violini
IL PIU FELICE E SFORTUNATO AMANTE - cantata per alto solo con due violini
PORTO L"ALMA INCENERITA - duetto da camera per canto, alto e basso continuo

Silvia Piccollo, soprano; Marco Lazzara, alto; Giovanni Dagnino, basso; Roberto Balconi, controtenore; Marco Perrella, basso
Complesso vocale strumentale: ALESSANDRO STRADELLA CONSORT (con strumenti originali), Direttore: ESTEBAN VELARDI


Q

PS A List of Stradella recording is to be found HERE (http://www.newolde.com/stradella.htm).
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Bogey on January 12, 2008, 06:48:12 AM
Once again, your investigative work is MOST appreciated Que.  I will look into trying to secure a copy of this.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on January 13, 2008, 02:49:24 AM
Listening to this recording the other day, and exchanging with Harry our appreciation for it, I noticed that it hadn't been posted here yet.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w300/front/0/0761203932528.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/hnum/7310924?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
  ~ click picture for link with samples ~

And it should, because as Harry said: it is a gem.
Francesco Durante is a composer from the Neapolitan school. That means that these "lessons" for the Tenebrae on the last three days of the Holy Week are in similar vain as Pergolesi, for instance. And the similarity is immediately apparent when putting this on. And - really - as beautiful! Wonderful pieces for choir and virtuosic solos, with rich accompaniment. Italian baroque at his best. Performance is superb, beautifully recorded. If memory serves well (can't check - their site is presently down), this received a Gramophone Award. Which can't hurt either. 8)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on January 28, 2008, 05:11:53 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5158BP1QRRL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/4228251?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
                 (click picture for samples)
One of the last oratorios by Alessandro Scarlatti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Scarlatti), a composer of the Neapolitan School. This oratorio is more like an allegorical musical "play" on a religious theme (the Holy Trinity), featuring a debate/ comic quarrel between Faith, Theology, Faithlessness, Time and Divine Love. Sounds maybe boring, but the texts are witty and the music is vivid and entertaining with instrumentation by strings & continuo.
Though the style is basically traditional - arias, duets, etc. alternated by recitatives, Scarlatti provides plenty of variety and musical brilliance. Recitatives are integrated with the vocal parts, which include four duets and a quintet at the finale. Biondi ensures the music has sufficient punch, excellent vocal contributions by Véronique Gens, Vivica Genaux et al.
To sum up: an entertaining, light and witty piece, superbly executed. A very nice addition for those who are into the genre of (Italian)baroque oratorios.

Review on the BBC site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/hmrg/)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 12, 2008, 04:01:59 PM
Sammartini, Giovanni (1770/1-1775) - Symphonies w/ Mallon & Aradia Ensemble (on period instruments) - YES, a 'transitional' figure between the Baroque/Classical eras, but an important innovator in that transition - a Brother Act along w/ Giuseppe, the older of the pair (b. 1695); father was actually a French oboist, who moved to Milan & married into an Italian family - he changed his name from Alexis Saint-Martin to Alessio Sammartini, but Giovanni basically spent his life in that wonderful northern Italian city (my last visit there was in 1996 - loved it!).

Brief Naxos Bio (http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/bio22132.htm) - can also check out the album & liner notes, if interested; this is my first disc of these two bros (have another coming in the mail soon!) - but, he was quite prolific, and wrote some 450 vocal & instrumental works, including at least 67 'surviving' symphonies (75 more attributed to him!) - other composers influenced and/or taught by him who visited Milan include Gluck, JC Bach, and Boccherini (I'm sure there were more!); his works have been categorized by Newell Jenkins & Bathia Churgin, hence the numbering seen is often preceeded by J-C - probably should be considered an important pioneer in this transition into classical music, a 'precursor of the Mannheim school, and, indeed, of Haydn' (quote from liner notes, if you want to contemplate?).

At any rate, I'd be quite interested in others' comments & recommendations for recordings of the Sammartini Bros!  Thanks -  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K2N5A8XAL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/Images/Composers/Pictures/22132-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 12, 2008, 05:17:12 PM
Sonic,
I have this set on Nuova Era:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21QZ3TJH2SL._AA130_.jpg)

It is 3 disks of the complete early string symphonies by I Giovani di Nuova Cameristica / Daniele Ferrari. It is his first 20 symphonies. You can see it at Amazon here (http://tinyurl.com/2j5aad). I discovered Sammartini while exploring the precursors of the Classical Style. He is reputed to have had a large influence on Haydn (who denied it, claiming fellow German Johann Stamitz instead). In any case, he is quite entertaining, post-Baroque/pre-Classical, clearly having moved on from the essential late Baroque Italianate style where the sinfonia was clearly a wake up call for the opera audience, but without the hallmarks (strong dynamic contrasts, key exploration etc.) which would mark the true classicists. This is a good recording.  :)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
BWV 1080 Art of Fugue - Fretwork - Bach BWV 1080 pt 15 Contrapunctus 12 rectus -
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 12, 2008, 05:43:34 PM
Sonic,
I have this set on Nuova Era:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21QZ3TJH2SL._AA130_.jpg)

It is 3 disks of the complete early string symphonies by I Giovani di Nuova Cameristica / Daniele Ferrari. It is his first 20 symphonies. You can see it at Amazon here (http://tinyurl.com/2j5aad). I discovered Sammartini while exploring the precursors of the Classical Style...............

Hello Gurn!   :)  Thanks for the recommendation - I've looked @ that offering on Amazon - price a little much even for 3 CDs, but will put on my 'wish list' - I do have the disc below shipping soon - should enjoy!

Yes, Haydn seemed to deny any influence, and maybe so since he was so isolated @ the Esterhazy court, but Sammartini was 30+ years older & apparently his compositions were being played in Vienna - and Haydn wasn't really composing much until his late 20s/30s when Giovanni was about 50 y/o - well, we will probably never know, but this mid-18th century of music composing is absolutely fascinating to me, esp. since there are so many unknowns!  ;) ;D  Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V%2B5ELuxKL._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 12, 2008, 05:52:05 PM
Hello Gurn!   :)  Thanks for the recommendation - I've looked @ that offering on Amazon - price a little much even for 3 CDs, but will put on my 'wish list' - I do have the disc below shipping soon - should enjoy!

got it at BRO for $14  ;)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
K 456 Concerto #18 in Bb for Piano (arr. for Piano & Wind Quartet by Hummel) - Fumiko Shiraga - K 456 Concerto #18 in Bb for Piano (arr. for Piano & Wind Quartet by Hummel) 1st mvmt -  Allegro vivace
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: head-case on February 12, 2008, 06:19:47 PM
Albinoni, Tomaso - Trio Sonatas, Op. 1 w/ Parnassi Musici - I really enjoy his music (now have about a half dozen discs)!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ETDHEFPHL._AA240_.jpg) 

The Albinoni opus 1 is awesome.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on February 12, 2008, 11:46:11 PM
Sammartini, Giovanni (1770/1-1775) - Symphonies w/ Mallon & Aradia Ensemble (on period instruments) - YES, a 'transitional' figure between the Baroque/Classical eras, but an important innovator in that transition - a Brother Act along w/ Giuseppe, the older of the pair (b. 1695); father was actually a French oboist, who moved to Milan & married into an Italian family - he changed his name from Alexis Saint-Martin to Alessio Sammartini, but Giovanni basically spent his life in that wonderful northern Italian city (my last visit there was in 1996 - loved it!).

Brief Naxos Bio (http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/bio22132.htm) - can also check out the album & liner notes, if interested; this is my first disc of these two bros (have another coming in the mail soon!) - but, he was quite prolific, and wrote some 450 vocal & instrumental works, including at least 67 'surviving' symphonies (75 more attributed to him!) - other composers influenced and/or taught by him who visited Milan include Gluck, JC Bach, and Boccherini (I'm sure there were more!); his works have been categorized by Newell Jenkins & Bathia Churgin, hence the numbering seen is often preceeded by J-C - probably should be considered an important pioneer in this transition into classical music, a 'precursor of the Mannheim school, and, indeed, of Haydn' (quote from liner notes, if you want to contemplate?).

At any rate, I'd be quite interested in others' comments & recommendations for recordings of the Sammartini Bros!  Thanks -  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K2N5A8XAL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/Images/Composers/Pictures/22132-1.jpg)

I am non to keen on this Naxos Dave, its far to traditional, and the tempi are just not what it should be, for my money Ik would buy this recent aquisition I made. Recording from both brothers on Brilliant. superb value for your money!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Harry on February 12, 2008, 11:49:24 PM
The Albinoni opus 1 is awesome.


The opus 1 from Albinoni is indeed a good recording, as are the seven concerti for Flauto by Scarlatti.
I have both discs, and played them many times.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 13, 2008, 07:32:00 AM
I am non to keen on this Naxos Dave, its far to traditional, and the tempi are just not what it should be, for my money Ik would buy this recent aquisition I made. Recording from both brothers on Brilliant. superb value for your money!

Harry - thanks for the comments - I was listening to the disc while posting, and agree, the tempos are somewhat slow in certain movements, but I've no basis for comparison - looking forward to the other disc ordered, however; and will check into that Brilliant set - Dave  :)

Addendum - just out of curiosity, after my listening & Harry's comments on the Sammartini Symphony disc, I searched for a review or two - not much available, but found one by Hurwitz (who has been praised or reviled in this forum -  ;) :D) on Classics Today - think that I pretty much agree w/ his assessment; his overall rating was 8/9, which is not bad, and the sound recording is done well -  :)

Quote
Sammartini is an important composer in the history of the symphony, but that doesn't mean that he wrote important symphonies. These brief, pleasant works, all in three movements (No. 62 has an alternative finale), contain much Vivaldian passagework and some aptly songful tunes in the slow bits, but little else memorable or distinctive. The two works in minor keys, Nos. 9 and 23, are more interesting by virtue of that fact, and the occasional presence of a pair of horns or trumpets adds interest to the prevailing string sonority. But let's not kid ourselves: this is pretty lightweight stuff. That said, the performances are lively and spirited, with good string tone and a correctly subservient balancing of the continuo harpsichord whenever it appears. The Aradia Ensemble is a Canadian group based in Toronto, and on evidence here it would be nice to hear them in more substantial fare. Very good engineering too.

--David Hurwitz
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: rubio on March 05, 2008, 03:10:14 AM
Can I ask about opinions of the Gesualdo Madrigals here (or does he need his own thread)? Has anybody heard these from La Venexiana (4th and5th book)?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5173AM2F9DL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZMHQPGVGL._AA240_.jpg)

Or would Alessandrini be preferable (5th and 6th book)?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41M1M2HR9FL._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 23, 2008, 11:43:13 PM
Promised Bill some feedback on this. :) And I'm happy to report that this scores IMO high points in the Italian oratorio repertoire. This is my first encounter with composer Giovanni Bononcini but I'm impressed: this is a masterpiece in the genre. It's not surprising (and quite noticeable) that Georg Friedrich Händel took Bononcini as a primary example for his own (later) oratorios.
The music is inventive, diverse and very touching.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X7QNV80VL.jpg)

I can be short about the performance: stunning, stunning. Absolutely superb singing by sopranos Lavinia Bertotti and Antonella Gianese. The Ensemble Concerto under Gini actually breathes this music: idiomatic, balanced and subtle, colourful.
Strongly recommended, but there is one significant drawback: though full texts (in Italian) are provided, with a French translation only...

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: FideLeo on March 24, 2008, 01:42:19 AM
It's not surprising (and quite noticeable) that Georg Friedrich Händel took Bononcini as a primary example for his own (later) oratorios.

Handel himself may disagree on this  :D

When asked why he borrowed material composed by Bononcini, Handel is said to have replied, "It's much too good for him; he did not know what to do with it."
http://gfhandel.org/anecdotes.htm (http://gfhandel.org/anecdotes.htm)

Anecdotes aside, just how noticeable is Bononcini's influence on Handel in oratorios, given that Handel himself wrote quite a lot of these already when he was in Italy?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 24, 2008, 01:50:47 AM
Handel himself may disagree on this  :D

When asked why he borrowed material composed by Bononcini, Handel is said to have replied, "It's much too good for him; he did not know what to do with it."
http://gfhandel.org/anecdotes.htm (http://gfhandel.org/anecdotes.htm)

Anecdotes aside, just how noticeable is Bononcini's influence on Handel in oratorios, given that Handel himself wrote quite a lot of these already when he was in Italy?

I presume that during his stay in Italy Händel encountered Bononcini's music. Of course, the question is always: who influenced who? In any case some stylistical similarities are striking.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: 71 dB on March 24, 2008, 02:04:33 AM
Of course, the question is always: who influenced who?
Q

It's rational to assume they influenced each other.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 17, 2008, 10:09:08 PM
Azzolino Bernardino Della Ciaja (http://phonoarchive.org/grove/Entries/S07475.htm) (Ciaia). Sometimes one finds a true original, as is the case here! :) Witty, eccentric and invigorating high quality music from this composer of the Tuscan (Florentine) School. Top marks for this performance by Swiss harpsichordist and contemporary composer Martin Derungs, who obviously knows what to do with this colourful music. Della Ciaja's style does remind of Domenico Scarlatti, those who are into Scarlatti needn't hesitate to get this for an entirely different twist. Great fun, this Azzolino! :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TQR1WV6JL._SS500_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: mozartsneighbor on May 22, 2008, 09:00:29 AM
I can heartily second Stradella -- very unique. Particularly this oratorio of his (Minkowski conducting):
(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000009JEC.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

... and these motets, that come with some nice Caldara as well:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411ZXR5WTCL._SL110_.jpg)

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 24, 2008, 11:59:41 PM
Azzolino Bernardino Della Ciaja (http://phonoarchive.org/grove/Entries/S07475.htm) (Ciaia). Sometimes one finds a true original, as is the case here! :) Witty, eccentric and invigorating high quality music from this composer of the Tuscan (Florentine) School. Top marks for this performance by Swiss harpsichordist and contemporary composer Martin Derungs, who obviously knows what to do with this colourful music. Della Ciaja's style does remind of Domenico Scarlatti, those who are into Scarlatti needn't hesitate to get this for an entirely different twist. Great fun, this Azzolino! :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TQR1WV6JL._SS500_.jpg)

I'm crazy about this disc! :o
Now I'm wondering: anybody has other recommendations for harpsichord music from the Italian Baroque?

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Drasko on May 25, 2008, 01:19:08 AM

Now I'm wondering: anybody has other recommendations for harpsichord music from the Italian Baroque?

Q

Could try Bernardo Pasquini. He was higly renown harpsicordist of his time (contemporary and friend of Corelli). I personally wasn't thrilled with what I heard, very little gift for melodic invention and huge preference for variation writing in various forms. But of course, YMMV. I have Roberto Loreggian disc on Chandos/Chaconne. Playing on the cool side, nicely recorded using two istruments - harpsicord and a spinet.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on May 25, 2008, 02:46:31 AM
I'm crazy about this disc! :o

So am I. Other than Rechsteiners recording, which I have not purchased, there is an even better recording on Pan by Atilio Cremonesi, stressing the phantastic and eccentric elements even further:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/1654604?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist


Now I'm wondering: anybody has other recommendations for harpsichord music from the Italian Baroque?
Q

Concerning other Italian baroque harpsichord music I think the Toccatas of Alessandro Scarlatti might interest you. They are in between rather "phantastic" but not as eccentric as Ciaja´s. I think my preferred recording by Rinaldo Alessandrini (Arcana) is unavailable, but I also own a recording by Alexander Weimann (Atma), which may substitute reasonably well. I neither know the recordings by Andrea Marcon (Divox) nor by Milena Frige (Stradivarius). The latter is on my wishlist.

Italian baroque harpsichord music begins with Frescobaldi, - how far backwards in time do you want to go.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 25, 2008, 06:53:56 AM
So am I. Other than Rechsteiners recording, which I have not purchased, there is an even better recording on Pan by Atilio Cremonesi, stressing the phantastic and eccentric elements even further:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/1654604?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist


Concerning other Italian baroque harpsichord music I think the Toccatas of Alessandro Scarlatti might interest you. They are in between rather "phantastic" but not as eccentric as Ciaja´s. I think my preferred recording by Rinaldo Alessandrini (Arcana) is unavailable, but I also own a recording by Alexander Weimann (Atma), which may substitute reasonably well. I neither know the recordings by Andrea Marcon (Divox) nor by Milena Frige (Stradivarius). The latter is on my wishlist.

Italian baroque harpsichord music begins with Frescobaldi, - how far backwards in time do you want to go.

Thanks for all the pointers! :) I'll check out Cremonesi's Ciaja. I have already some Frescobaldi by Scott Ross. Meantime, I nosed through Amazon's listmania and came up with some idea's.
Again, would appreciate any helpful comments! :)

Domenico Paradies                          Antonio Valente - by Francesco Cera (Tactus)
by Ottavio Dantone (Stradivarius):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FWDAVA1CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J8CW9SMML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Franscesco Geminiani                       Francesco Durante - by Laura Alvini (Tactus)
by Fabio Bonizzoni (Glossa):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DCHMSK6PL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/58/21/04dd225b9da0dba82824e010._AA240_.L.jpg)

Benedetto Marcello                           Alessandro Poglietti - by Jorg-Andreas Bötticher (Harmonia Mundi)
by Roberto Lorrigian (Chandos)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5170VN42ZZL._SS500_.jpg)   (http://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/94/282394.jpg)

Domenico Zipoli                                Bernardo Storace - by Francesco Cera
by Sergio Vartolo (Tactus)
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/c9/50/6d1c820dd7a050508c39e010.L.jpg)   (http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/85/411185.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on October 06, 2008, 08:35:26 AM
Interesting post! :)

Q

(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000252SX.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

Alessandro Stradella(1639-1682), Motets, Lesne
This is one baroque composer that should definitely be better known. His output can be a bit uneven as he was a bit of a hard-partying playboy who had a penchant for pursuing other men's wives.
One of these husbands sent a couple of hitmen after him, and he spent years moving from city to city in Italy to avoid them. Eventually, his past caught up with him and he was stabbed to death in Genoa.
But aside from his colorful life, at its best his music reaches Purcell's level IMHO. His oratorio San Giovanni Battista (directed by Minkowski) is also top drawer stuff.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on October 06, 2008, 10:34:11 PM
Hey - would anyone like to rec a Frescobaldi keyboard disc or two?

I'm curious about this composer, but have no idea where to invest.  ???
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on February 04, 2009, 02:57:36 PM
This 4CD-set just surfaced in France & Germany. Seems interesting - I became a Bachini-fan recently! :)

Comments? :)

(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/7/2/0/3760009291027.jpg)

Content:

Bononcini: "La Nemica d'Amore fatta Amante" (Serenata a tre)
Geminiani: 12 Concerti grossi (after Corelli's op. 5)
Valentini: Concerti grossi op. 7 Nr. 1-3, 7,10, 11


Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Josquin des Prez on February 04, 2009, 04:08:18 PM
Hey - would anyone like to rec a Frescobaldi keyboard disc or two?

I'm curious about this composer, but have no idea where to invest.  ???

My favored recording of his are the Capricci, played by Francesco Tasini. They are polyphomic pieces containing every single formal device known to Frescobaldi (Toccata, Fantasia, Ricercare, Canzone) fused into an homogeneous whole. They are thick, highly contrapuntal organ works, definitely not for the faint of hearts. The Fiori Musicali, by Alessandrini, is also interesting. It's one of the works studied by Bach during his formative years, and it's a fascinating study of early baroque chromaticism in the manner of Luzzaschi, Frescobaldi's teacher and the forerunner to the forminable Gesualdo. After that, the two books of Toccatas by Vartolo are also in order. Besides the Toccatas proper, they are filled with a lot of extra material (mainly Partite, I.E., variations on popular themes, but also Capricci, Correnti, Gagliarde and other popular forms of the time). Alas, his playing style is a bit of an acquired taste, and many people prefer other perfomers for this music (though only Vartolo recorded the complete set, to my knowledge at least).

Frescobaldi is the last, and greatest exponent of the late Renaissance/Early Baroque keyboard style of Italy, which tended to be a bit on the "erudite" side, mainly as a reaction to the introduction of homophony into the vocal repertory, which forced a lot of conservative musicians to retreat to the keyboard as the contrapuntal instrument of choice. This doesn't mean Frescobaldi didn't adapt to the times, but on the main his works are are a testament to the more "learned" side of Italian music. He was also a great virtuoso and he used to draw crowds in the vein of a Liszt, which i think it's sort of a first. Even Sweelinck, perhaps the greatest keyboard player of the entire Renaissance/early Baroque, was more used to play in front of private audiences, either his students or devoted amateurs, as per custom.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 04, 2009, 07:12:30 PM
I have a little over 40 LP's/CD's on works by Albinoni and maybe a similar number of recordings by Corelli.  On the other hand, I have over 100 LP's/CD's by Vivaldi.  It is not easy to have a large selection of any Italian composer except Vivaldi and not having multiple recordings of the same work.  Vivaldi was just the most prolific Italian baroque composer ...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 13, 2009, 07:52:06 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H5RGCPF6L._SS400_.jpg)

I want more that sound like this, if possible. Thanks.

I have a dozen of CD's on the Italian label Tactus.  They are works of minor Italian baroque composers.  While we are all familiar with Vivaldi, Albinoni, Corelli, there are more than a dozen of minor composers from the baroque era and from the city-states which eventually became modern-day Italy whose works are quite delightful.  They are quite well represented on this label.  Check out the link below ...

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?label_id=1172&bcorder=6&LabelAll=1
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 13, 2009, 07:58:14 PM
Thanks. I will check those out.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on February 14, 2009, 12:52:29 AM
Despite the silly title, this new Signum release looks interesting and I will watch for reviews:

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/SIGCD157.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 14, 2009, 07:34:33 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H5RGCPF6L._SS400_.jpg)

I want more that sound like this, if possible. Thanks.

Dave - I don't own that disc above (but should probably add it to my 'wish list'!) - there's so much of this music (as you've undoubtedly noticed from the previous pages of this thread) - what is it about this recording that appeals to you - might help others provide more 'targeted' recommendations?

However, I would encourage you to explore Tomaso Albinoni - now have nearly a dozen discs by this composer; the two shown below are my recent acquisitions and are just superb - good luck in your search! Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V2YFA43YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TYtBss4vL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 14, 2009, 08:49:28 AM
Dave - I don't own that disc above (but should probably add it to my 'wish list'!) - there's so much of this music (as you've undoubtedly noticed from the previous pages of this thread) - what is it about this recording that appeals to you - might help others provide more 'targeted' recommendations?

However, I would encourage you to explore Tomaso Albinoni - now have nearly a dozen discs by this composer; the two shown below are my recent acquisitions and are just superb - good luck in your search! Dave

What do I like about that Gabrieli disc? Hmm. It's stately splendor, for the most part. (I bet that didn't help at all).  ;D I must like music that sounds regal.

I have an Albinoni disc; sort of a DG greatest hits, I think.

Thanks for the response, Dave II. ;)

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2009, 09:41:31 AM
Dave - I don't own that disc above (but should probably add it to my 'wish list'!) - there's so much of this music (as you've undoubtedly noticed from the previous pages of this thread) - what is it about this recording that appeals to you - might help others provide more 'targeted' recommendations?

However, I would encourage you to explore Tomaso Albinoni - now have nearly a dozen discs by this composer; the two shown below are my recent acquisitions and are just superb - good luck in your search! Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V2YFA43YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TYtBss4vL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I have most of the Albinoni's CD's on Chandos by the Collegium Musicum 90, headed by Simon Standage who used to the lead violinist with the English Concert.  They all have excellent SQ ...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2009, 10:05:47 AM
One of the problems with Italian baroque music beyond Vivaldi is that the rest of its baroque composers really did not have the comparable volumes of output compared with Vivaldi.  For German baroque music, Telemann is a good counterweight to JS Bach in terms of output volumes, even as the quality of his works do not always measure up to that of JS Bach ...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2009, 10:11:59 AM
Here is an excellent reference for Italian Baroque Music.  I have the much older version.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NQTX32FEL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: DavidW on February 14, 2009, 11:34:01 AM
One of the problems with Italian baroque music beyond Vivaldi is that the rest of its baroque composers really did not have the comparable volumes of output compared with Vivaldi. 

Why is that a problem?  Did you need a large quantity of Italian baroque cds to hold up a table with a missing leg? :D 
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on February 14, 2009, 11:40:49 AM
Why is that a problem?  Did you need a large quantity of Italian baroque cds to hold up a table with a missing leg? :D 
Yeah, I've always felt it was a problem that the other 200+ Italian baroque composers didn't compose 92 operas. I mean, I have all thos monies I need to get rid of, as well as an unused fotball hall which I need to put to some use.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2009, 11:44:00 AM
Why is that a problem?  Did you need a large quantity of Italian baroque cds to hold up a table with a missing leg? :D 

It is not a problem for me since I also have most of the Albinoni's works on LP and CD along with 2 complete sets of Vivaldi works - 18-LP set and 18-CD set.  I also have some of the more obscure works by Frescobaldi, Corelli, Geminiani, Scarlatti and by a bunch of minor Italian baroque composers on the Tactus label I discussed yesterday.  In all, I have at least 200 LP's/CD's on the works of Italian masters and these do not include the many choral works by Vivaldi I have ...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 14, 2009, 11:44:43 AM
Bought that Corelli/Pinnock disc back yonder.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2009, 11:47:25 AM
Yeah, I've always felt it was a problem that the other 200+ Italian baroque composers didn't compose 92 operas. I mean, I have all thos monies I need to get rid of, as well as an unused fotball hall which I need to put to some use.

Check out the Italian label Tactus, it has recorded works of many Italian baroque composers you have never heard of.  This is a way to blow your money and give the global economy a shot in the arm ...


http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?label_id=1172&bcorder=6&LabelAll=1
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 10, 2009, 05:57:10 PM
Bump this thread with a repost from the listening thread:

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/1027236.jpg)

Good afternoon, Que. How do you find those sonatas? I'd like to beef-up my rather non-existent Baroque violin collection. :)

I second this request! I'm a fan of Paganini's theatrics, could these offer something similar (albeit not as extreme)?

I can offer only first impressions in this stage: just the first spin of two of the three discs.

On the music: this certainly establishes Tartini as a worthwhile Italian Baroque composer for me, after a somewhat "going through the (pleasant) motions" of Italian Baroque on a disc with concertos, although with top performances by Gatti/Dieltiens/ Ensemble 415/ Banchini (HM). Even so, the 2nd disc with the sonatas Opus 2 was still more interesting than the works on the 1st disc, which are in the booklet described as being generally considered "minor works". From what I've heard sofar, I suspect that this collection of Trio Sonatas by Tartini will be more interesting than Buxtehude's efforts - no minor compliment! :)
The performing style of the members of the Italian HIP Ensemble La Magnifica Comunità is quite sincere and sober, don't expect something like Andrew Manze's histrionics (of which I'm steadily growing weary, though his Biber still remains), nor in the music extravaganza and virtuosity like in music by Pisendel (Lethe!) or (Franz) Benda.  Enrico Casazza's style reminds me of his countryman Enrico Gatti, though he has not Gatti's velvet tone but a more firm, straight forward sound.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on June 12, 2010, 12:07:46 AM
(adapted) repost from the listening thread:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61SZCEYPKQL._SS400_.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009291027.jpg)

First rate, super de luxe performances by Chiara Banchini and her Ensemble 415. This seems hard to surpass: beautiful PI textures and sonorities, incisive and articulated, with nice Italianate, rugged but stylish and virtuosic violin playing. And that is what this music needs: maybe not exactly earth shattering compositions but it comes alive with the proper expressive and virtuosic approach.

Very enjoyable and very interesting to hear period orchestrations of Corelli's famous Opus V violin sonatas - which makes this works "a basic" for any serious Baroque collection IMO. :)

And I got this now OOP (and at Amazon crazily priced) 2CD set  as part of a box set (just a cardboard slipcase with the original issues) which is a nice bargain! ;D
A no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: False_Dmitry on June 12, 2010, 01:33:12 AM
In their own era, the most important (viz frequently-performed) Italian opera composers were Lotti, Porpora & Bononcini.  If we analyse the number of performances at the Royal Academy in London,  Bononcini's operas outperformed Handel's by a ratio of nearly 2:1. 

These are substantial and extremely well-written works, and they deserve to be better-known.  Yet few have been performed or recorded (by comparison with Handel's or Vivaldi's operas, for example).
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on June 12, 2010, 03:59:57 AM
(adapted) repost from the listening thread:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61SZCEYPKQL._SS400_.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009291027.jpg)

First rate, super de luxe performances by Chiara Banchini and her Ensemble 415. This seems hard to surpass: beautiful PI textures and sonorities, incisive and articulated, with nice Italianate, rugged but stylish and virtuosic violin playing. And that is what this music needs: maybe not exactly earth shattering compositions but it comes alive with the proper expressive and virtuosic approach.

Very enjoyable and very interesting to hear period orchestrations of Corelli's famous Opus V violin sonatas - which makes this works "a basic" for any serious Baroque collection IMO. :)

And I got this now OOP (and at Amazon crazily priced) 2CD set  as part of a box set (just a cardboard slipcase with the original issues) which is a nice bargain! ;D
A no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. :)

Q

I have one recording by Chiara Banchini and her Ensemble 415, though not on Zig Zag.  This 2-CD set by Biondi falls into the same category.  A new one will now set you back over $100 USD ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31G0HFA4XNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 05, 2010, 01:48:44 PM
Just posted in the 'listening thread' (quoted below) on a new acquisition from BRO - 2 discs - Loreggian continues to explore this Italian Baroque repertoire - this time w/ some premiere recordings of a composer new to me - yet again!  ;) :D

The harpsichord, as mentioned below, is a beautiful sounding reconstruction - apparently, Giusti was considered one of greatest Italian makers of these keyboard instruments at the time - there is considerably detail in the liner notes by the modern maker on which Loreggian performs -  :)  P.S. pic of Roberto added to the OP - not sure if this is the instrument being played but similar coloring on a photo in the booklet?

Quote
Marcello, Benedetto (1686-1739) - Harpsichord Sonatas, Op. 3 w/ Roberto Loreggian on a reconstructed instrument by Riccardo Pergolis after ones made by Giovanni Giusti (Lucca, c. 1630-c. 1693); another BRO bargain -1 1/2 pages of notes about the harpsichord written by Pergolis and thick booklet in multiple languages about the composer and the 'search' for these works -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/MarcelloLoreggian/923715868_QssJW-O.jpg)  (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-Bio-BIG/Loreggian-Robeto-02.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on July 14, 2010, 09:25:57 PM
Now that Glossa's series of Handel's Italian cantatas with solo instruments are coming to an end, I thought the folowing might be of interest (from an interview with Fabio Bonizzoni):

What are you planning to move on to now?

We are starting a new concert and recording project, one which I would say is as exciting as the one just completed: the Italian Serenata. The Serenata is a very Italian genre, one which had enormous success throughout Europe during its time. We plan to devote six to eight CDs to the main composers of this genre starting, in 2010, with Alessandro Scarlatti, who was one of the principal Italian composers of the form. A lot of the repertoire we will record is currently not available elsewhere in the overall catalogue and I am expecting an enthusiastic answer from our fans!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on July 15, 2010, 05:34:33 PM
Now that Glossa's series of Handel's Italian cantatas with solo instruments are coming to an end, I thought the folowing might be of interest (from an interview with Fabio Bonizzoni):

What are you planning to move on to now?

We are starting a new concert and recording project, one which I would say is as exciting as the one just completed: the Italian Serenata. The Serenata is a very Italian genre, one which had enormous success throughout Europe during its time. We plan to devote six to eight CDs to the main composers of this genre starting, in 2010, with Alessandro Scarlatti, who was one of the principal Italian composers of the form. A lot of the repertoire we will record is currently not available elsewhere in the overall catalogue and I am expecting an enthusiastic answer from our fans!

I enjoyed Glossa recordings mainly for the early music and baroque and have probably exhausted what are available.  The same goes for Gimell and CRD, which are also noted for their early music.  I think BIS and Hyperion may be my next focus.  I may check out the Scarlatti works on Glossa though.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 13, 2010, 11:47:45 PM
(http://img2.douban.com/lpic/s2354040.jpg)

Time to revive this all too little thread with a mixed disc with harpsichord and organ pieces by the elusive Bernardo Storace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Storace), played by Fabio Bonizzoni. Little is known about Storace who was Maestro di Capella at Messina, Sicily.

I did not pay sufficient attention to this disc first time around, it sounded OK but my interest wasn't really triggered. Probably a quick listen during breakfast before rushing off to work is not ideal for attentive listening! ;D Because this is interesting stuff, provided that you're into "earlier" Italian Baroque keyboard music. I am. 8) I would position Storace as a successor to Frescobaldi, the same structured, reflective music in a formal style but with quite more forward looking features added - denser, more virtuosic, rhythmically dynamic and expressive. Glimpses of the keyboard music by the Neapolitan School are clearly present. The organ music is a bit more conservative but very fine and it is the authentic characterfull sounds of the Sicilian organ that does it.

Great, expressive playing by Fabio Bonizzoni, who was a pupil of Ton Koopman, something which is not immediately noticeable, probably because of a difference in (musical) personality. Yet on the organ he does pay, like Koopman, a lot of attention to proper articulation. Maybe I wouldn't have minded slightly less hesitations in some of the slower keyboard pieces. Beautiful instruments that are beautifully recorded - a harpsichord by Nikolaus Damm after Trasuntino and the organ of the Chiesa della SS.Trinità in Petralia Sottana, Sicily, built in 1751.

Maybe not indespendable but an issue of clear interest to those into keyboard and organ music of this period.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: False_Dmitry on August 13, 2010, 11:56:14 PM
the elusive Bernardo Storace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Storace),

Not to be confused with Stefano Storace, a double-bassist and composer who moved to London, becoming Musical Director of Vauxhall Gardens.  He married an Englishwoman, and their son Stephen Storace anglicised the family surname's pronunciation.  Stephen studied in Italy before moving to Vienna, where he worked alongside Salieri, played billiards with Mozart, and staged operas at the Hoftheatre.  After his sister Anna "Nancy" Storace fell from grace as mistress of Emperor Josef II (and prima buffa at the Hoftheatre - premiering Mozart and Salieri main roles) the Storaces moved back to London, where Stephen wrote a short string of box-office-hit proto-romantic operas before dying of pneumonia brought on by overwork at age 35.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 07, 2011, 11:18:34 PM
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDA67771-2.jpg)

CESTI, ANTONIO Le disgrazie d’Amore.

What a marvellous performance of some extraordinary moving music!

Panned by the reviewer in Gramohone who obviously had no understanding whatever of the style and no feeling at all for the intensity of the story, and another reason why I let my subscription lapse and never will touch the magazine again.

I rather believe the blogger behind newolde.com "Indeed, this is one of the best recordings to date of a 17th Century Italian opera" or Brian Robins in Early Music Review "This set is not only an artistic triumph in its own right, but also one of the most important additions to the catalogue we're likely to see this year." .

Stupidities like the review in Gramophone however carries more weight and is a reason that Hyperion probably has lost lots of money on this set - and have reduced the probablity that we will see more releases like this.

Burn in hell, and goodbye, Gramophone. You can market the latest Rattle release without the help of my money.

Noted! :)

And thanks again for pointing out more of that wonderful Italian Baroque vocal stuff! :o :D

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 24, 2011, 07:42:28 AM
Just left the post below in the 'listening thread' but more appropriate here; Maione from his dates was a transitional Renaissance-Baroque composer from Naples; however, his music on these 2 discs place him into the early Italian Baroque and likely an innovator in these styles of keyboard music - just a short Wiki article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascanio_Mayone) - cannot provide much information on the harpsichord used (those parts of the notes are in Italian, but there is an English translation of the remainder of the booklet) - my purchases were based on a recommendation by Paul in another thread -  :D


Quote
Maione, Ascanio (c. 1579-1627) - Harpsichord Works, Bks. 1 & 2 w/ Francesco Tasini on 2 separate CDs - a little information of the Tactus website HERE (http://www.tactus.biz/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=maione&x=0&y=0) - beautiful performances and sound recording from an earlier Italian keyboard performer & composer -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/MaioneTasini/1221069641_DCZnW-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/MaioneTasiniBk2/1227060294_ufmuz-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: PaulSC on March 24, 2011, 12:22:29 PM
Just left the post below in the 'listening thread' but more appropriate here; Maione from his dates was a transitional Renaissance-Baroque composer from Naples; however, his music on these 2 discs place him into the early Italian Baroque and likely an innovator in these styles of keyboard music - just a short Wiki article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascanio_Mayone) - cannot provide much information on the harpsichord used (those parts of the notes are in Italian, but there is an English translation of the remainder of the booklet) - my purchases were based on a recommendation by Paul in another thread -  :D
SonicMan, so glad you're enjoying these. They've stood up as one of my best purchases in recent memory. I'm particularly taken with the toccatas these days -- that mixture of improvisational freedom and purposeful design really appeals. Evidently Mayone wrote for, or is performable on, Renaissance double harp, which I'm now curious to hear. There's discussion in Anthony Newcomb, "Frescobaldi's Toccatas and Their Stylistic Ancestry," Proceedings of the Royal Musical Association 111 (1984 - 1985): 28-44.



(and single pieces scattered across other discs)

Another resource: Ascanio Mayone Society (http://ascaniomayone.org/)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 24, 2011, 02:37:47 PM
SonicMan, so glad you're enjoying these. They've stood up as one of my best purchases in recent memory. I'm particularly taken with the toccatas these days -- that mixture of improvisational freedom and purposeful design really appeals. Evidently Mayone wrote for, or is performable on, Renaissance double harp, which I'm now curious to hear. There's discussion in Anthony Newcomb, "Frescobaldi's Toccatas and Their Stylistic Ancestry," Proceedings of the Royal Musical Association 111 (1984 - 1985): 28-44.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K%2BqVxiIVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/GuitarNew1/640155827_W5Vge-O.jpg)

Another resource: Ascanio Mayone Society (http://ascaniomayone.org/)

Hello Paul - thanks for the additional information - now, Mayone vs. Maione, the latter looks more Italian to me but the society above linked uses the other spelling - which one (or is both) correct to use?

My wife (Harpo on this site) & I love the harp - she plays (and sings) many instruments - the pic added above is a corner of our living room showing her 2 harps; the larger one was made by Chris Caswell (http://www.caswellharps.com/) years ago now, but he is in your 'neck of the woods' on the CA coast.  I'd love to obtain that disc but rather pricey on the Amazon MP once S/H is added - maybe an MP3 download someplace?  Dave  :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: PaulSC on March 24, 2011, 07:13:02 PM
Hello Paul - thanks for the additional information - now, Mayone vs. Maione, the latter looks more Italian to me but the society above linked uses the other spelling - which one (or is both) correct to use?

My wife (Harpo on this site) & I love the harp - she plays (and sings) many instruments - the pic added above is a corner of our living room showing her 2 harps; the larger one was made by Chris Caswell (http://www.caswellharps.com/) years ago now, but he is in your 'neck of the woods' on the CA coast.  I'd love to obtain that disc but rather pricey on the Amazon MP once S/H is added - maybe an MP3 download someplace?  Dave  :D
Wow, those harps are beautiful!

re: Maione vs Mayone, I've seen the latter spelling more frequently than the former in modern sources. But obviously it's spelled with "i" on those Tasini discs. I guess the modern Italian alphabet lacks the letter "y" (?).

The Zauner-Pagitsch CD is a bit more than I want to pay, too. There are previews here: http://www.harfen.at/joomla/content/view/94/5/ on the basis of which I suspect I prefer this repertoire on harpsichord. But to satisfy my curiosity I may purchase individual downloadable tracks from one or more of the following mixed harp programs:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W6HxRtaGL._SS500_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51l8vA4NnGL._SS500_.jpg)
(http://a6.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/001/Features/5f/4e/ad/dj.hulskeuu.170x170-75.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B%2BN5w8UPL._SS400_.jpg)
Galassi1,2, Kelly1,2, Nishiyama2, Lawrence-King2
1Amazon
2iTunes
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Leo K. on June 04, 2011, 11:00:26 AM
Wow! This disk of the sonatas of Giovanni Battista Mazzaferrata (16??-1691) is wonderful! There are foreshadowings of classical style in his music.

(http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/7d/2e/000d2e7d_medium.jpeg)

Sonata II
Sonata III
Sonata I
Sonata IV
Sonata V
Sonata VI
Sonata VII
Sonata VIII
Sonata IX
Sonata X
Sonata XI
Sonata XII


(2 Violins, bassetto viola ad lib. & continuo)

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Leo K. on June 05, 2011, 09:00:27 AM
(http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/fe/c8/001ac8fe_medium.jpeg)
Dorindo, dormi ancor

This is very nice! Another new work and composer to dive into on a Sunday afternoon  8)



Quoth the Wiki:

Quote

Nicola (Antonio) Porpora (or Niccolò Porpora) (17 August 1686 – 3 March 1768) was an Italian composer of Baroque operas (see opera seria) and teacher of singing, whose most famous singing student was the castrato Farinelli. One of his other students was composer Matteo Capranica.



Porpora was born in Naples. He graduated from the music conservatory Poveri di Gesù Cristo of his native city, where the civic opera scene was dominated by Alessandro Scarlatti.

Porpora's first opera, Agrippina, was successfully performed at the Neapolitan court in 1708. His second, Berenice, was performed at Rome. In a long career, he followed these up by many further operas, supported as maestro di cappella in the households of aristocratic patrons, such as the commander of military forces at Naples, prince Philip of Hesse-Darmstadt, or of the Portuguese ambassador at Rome, for composing operas alone did not yet make a viable career. However, his enduring fame rests chiefly upon his unequalled power of teaching singing. At the Neapolitan Conservatorio di Sant'Onofrio and with the Poveri di Gesù Cristo he trained Farinelli, Caffarelli, Salimbeni, and other celebrated vocalists, during the period 1715-1721. In 1720 and 1721 he wrote two serenades to librettos by a gifted young poet, Metastasio, the beginning of a long, though interrupted, collaboration. In 1722 his operatic successes encouraged him to lay down his conservatory commitments…

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on July 25, 2011, 09:09:24 PM
Though Roberto Valentino was born in Leicester as Robert Valentine, he was Italian based and wrote in Italian style - so I'm quoting this here:

A beautiful disc of sonatas for recorder & basso continuo by an almost unknown Roberto Valentini.



The music is lively, beautiful and varied; all in all, a worth addition to any discography.

Curiously, the reviewers and even the Ramée website itself omit to indicate that two different harpsichords are used in the continuo (together with the cello): (1) a harpsichord Matthias Griewisch, Bammental, 1996 after Aelpidio Gregori, c. 1700 and (2) a gut-stringed harpsichord Christian Fuchs, Frankfurt-Höscht. The name "gut-stringed harpsichord" is quite weird, but I supposse it's used because a name as "lute-harpsichord" or "lautenwerck" could be a bit misleading, as the instrument doesn't sound too much as lute, but maybe more as a guitar. Very nice, indeed!

Review on MusicWeb International (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/May07/Valentini_RAMEE0701.htm)

Ramée website (http://www.ramee.org/0701gb.html)

 :)

Interesting! :) I love recorder music. I was also intrigued by the "gut stringed" harpsichord. Judging from the samples it has the percussiveness of the harpsichord but the sound of a luth or baroque guitar.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 26, 2011, 08:16:35 AM
Though Roberto Valentino was born in Leicester as Robert Valentine, he was Italian based and wrote in Italian style - so I'm quoting this here:

Interesting! :) I love recorder music. I was also intrigued by the "gut stringed" harpsichord. Judging from the samples it has the percussiveness of the harpsichord but the sound of a luth or baroque guitar.

Well, I went ahead and ordered the Roberto Valentini disc after the post/review above; interestingly, another (this time Italian) composer 'popped up' in my Amazon search, i.e. Guiseppe Valentini (1681-1753), so I added that disc to my order (love that Zig Zag label) - own nothing at the moment by either of these composers.

BTW - I'm assuming that the harpsichord mentioned by Q is just the lute-harpsichord or lautenwerck?  We've had some discussion of this instrument (and its modern reproductions along w/ the use on non-metal & non-gut strings) in the 'Old Musical Instruments' thread - :)


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QlIfzfzHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512ycXaU%2BdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
Valentini, Giuseppe (1681-1753) - Italian violinist, composer, painter, and poet who studied under Giovanni Bononcini in the 1690s. He was overshadowed in his lifetime by fellow composers, such as Corelli, Vivaldi, & Locatelli.  Most of his instrumental music was written in the first decades of the 18th century (list below from a short Wiki article; does not include a small number of vocal works).

A new composer to me but ordered the disc shown below of the Op. 7 works (these are listed as No. 1-3, 7, 10, 11 - as stated in the opus listing 7 works are indicated, so not sure about the numbering?).  I really enjoy this group and the label - excellent liner notes; the music is inventive and a nice change from the usual Italian works written in the late Baroque.  The performances are excellent and the recording top notch.  :D


 Op. 1: 12 Sinfonie (1701)
 Op. 2:  7 Bizzaria for 2 violins, viola, B.C. (1703
 Op. 3: 12 Fantasie for 2 violins & bass (1706)
 Op. 4:  7 Idee for violin & B.C. (1706)
 Op. 5: 12 Sonate a tre (1707)
 Op. 6: Unpublished
 Op. 7   7 Concerto 4 violins (C. grossi) (1710)
 Op. 8: 12 Allettamenti per camera (1714)
 Op. 9-12: unpublished (promised in Op. 8 preface)
 Op. ??: 7 Concerti 2 violins, 2 horns, B.C.

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-ZjhrBxL/0/O/ValentiniCGrossi.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Drasko on December 19, 2011, 09:04:21 AM
I'm considering these two, any opinions?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Vib8tSHiL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FIEqVVqYL.jpg)

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005L12SE4/?tag=goodmusicgu03-21
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CR79LY/?tag=goodmusicgu03-21
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: mc ukrneal on December 19, 2011, 09:08:34 AM
I'm considering these two, any opinions?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FIEqVVqYL.jpg)
Harry has enthusiastically recommended this one I think. Hopefully he will see the post and comment.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Leo K. on January 08, 2012, 01:47:21 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PUDmYR%2ByL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Discovering the six sonatas of Azzolino Bernardino (1671-1755) and having a fun time hearing these amazing, beautiful and somewhat angular sounding works.

 8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bumtz on January 15, 2012, 06:21:27 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W6HxRtaGL._SS500_.jpg)
This is one of my favorite CDs in my collection, and it is the first time I see it being mentioned by anybody!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bumtz on January 15, 2012, 06:24:43 PM
Harry has enthusiastically recommended this one I think. Hopefully he will see the post and comment.
This one is excellent, and the repertoire is somewhat less than obvious. Buy without hesitation! Amazon.de has it for some laughable amount of €. 
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Geo Dude on February 16, 2012, 06:33:41 PM
I have to admit that my collection is lacking in Italian baroque.  Any recommendations for keyboard recordings -- harpsichord or organ -- other than D. Scarlatti?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on February 16, 2012, 11:29:28 PM
I have to admit that my collection is lacking in Italian baroque.  Any recommendations for keyboard recordings -- harpsichord or organ -- other than D. Scarlatti?

Coincidentally this is just an area I am investigating. :) BTW an important successor of D. Scarlatti was of course Antonio Soler. But then again Spanish and Italian Baroque are highly intereconnected.

I'll come back for more recommendations, but I'll recommend one smashing disc for now - a must have, IMO:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zMkUm5bdL.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Opus106 on February 16, 2012, 11:31:25 PM
I have to admit that my collection is lacking in Italian baroque.  Any recommendations for keyboard recordings -- harpsichord or organ -- other than D. Scarlatti?

The talk of the town last year: Frescobaldi!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Antoine Marchand on February 17, 2012, 04:53:43 AM
I have to admit that my collection is lacking in Italian baroque.  Any recommendations for keyboard recordings -- harpsichord or organ -- other than D. Scarlatti?

I think these are a handful of interesting recordings to start a research:

- Alessandro Scarlatti:



or these two (3) discs:



- On Divox Antiqua you can find several interesting discs dedicated to this repertoire; specially performed by Andrea Marcon ("The Heritage of Frescobaldi" Vol. 2 is not strictly of Italian music, but about the influence of Frescobaldi in Europe which is quite interesting, IMO):



- An obvious recommendation are, additionally, the complete series of Frescobaldi's keyboard music, released both on Tactus and Brilliant Classics, as Frescobaldi is, IMO, the only Italian composer at the same level of the greatest North German and French composers for keyboard. BTW, one of my favorite Frescobaldis is this one, unfortunately OOP:



- I think it would also be a good idea to explore the catalogue of the Italian label Tactus.

Here: http://www.tactus.biz/store/index.php?cPath=37&osCsid=f229baf9c0deff62891885a8cb311fd9

and here: http://www.tactus.biz/store/index.php?cPath=28


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Geo Dude on February 17, 2012, 05:51:33 AM
Antoine,

Thank you for that very informative post.  I must admit that it makes me deeply regret not buying that Frescobaldi complete keyboard works set a couple of months ago when Amazon was stocking it for $12.  I considered it, but was under the unfortunate impression that he was a pre-baroque composer which was outside my sphere of interest then. :-[  In any case, I'll start exploring this material when the opportunity arises.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Leo K. on February 17, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
Coincidentally this is just an area I am investigating. :) BTW an important successor of D. Scarlatti was of course Antonio Soler. But then again Spanish and Italian Baroque are highly intereconnected.

I'll come back for more recommendations, but I'll recommend one smashing disc for now - a must have, IMO:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zMkUm5bdL.jpg)

Q

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PUDmYR%2ByL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Que, it appears we have the same recording, just different cover art.

It is indeed a fascinating listen!

 8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on February 17, 2012, 03:02:31 PM
I'll come back for more recommendations, but I'll recommend one smashing disc for now - a must have, IMO:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zMkUm5bdL.jpg)


Having heard Attilio Cremonesi´s Della Ciaja I think you agree with me, that he is much more exciting than Martin Derungs.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on February 18, 2012, 12:23:26 AM
Having heard Attilio Cremonesi´s Della Ciaja I think you agree with me, that he is much more exciting than Martin Derungs.


Maybe not in terms of sheer excitement itself - the Derungs is pretty volatile and hard pressed - but Cremonesi has more depth and nuance. Very stylish! :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2012, 08:27:55 AM
Ariosti, Attilio (1666-1729) - Stockholm Sonatas w/ Thomas Georgi on Viola d'Amore (actually 3 different period instruments; one w/ sympathetic strings); born in Bologna and ended up in London, where he died - a Swedish musical student, Johan Roman, copied these works while in London in the early 1710s - hence the name of the compositions.

Purchased V. II nearly 2 years ago based on a number of excellent reviews (one reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=171436)) - just acquired the other 2 volumes from MDT and just as enjoyable as my initial purchase (and also ones that received great comments).  Instruments used in these recordings include viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, viola da gamba, bass viol, & cello; this is intimate chamber music, both well performed on period instruments and recorded - if interested, give the first volume a try! :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-3SQmBN9/0/S/Ariost1-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AriostiStockholmII/863144595_ssyhJ-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-vdFZLHR/0/S/ariost3-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Leo K. on February 18, 2012, 08:41:36 AM
Ariosti, Attilio (1666-1729) - Stockholm Sonatas w/ Thomas Georgi on Viola d'Amore (actually 3 different period instruments; one w/ sympathetic strings); born in Bologna and ended up in London, where he died - a Swedish musical student, Johan Roman, copied these works while in London in the early 1710s - hence the name of the compositions.

Purchased V. II nearly 2 years ago based on a number of excellent reviews (one reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=171436)) - just acquired the other 2 volumes from MDT and just as enjoyable as my initial purchase (and also ones that received great comments).  Instruments used in these recordings include viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, viola da gamba, bass viol, & cello; this is intimate chamber music, both well performed on period instruments and recorded - if interested, give the first volume a try! :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-3SQmBN9/0/S/Ariost1-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AriostiStockholmII/863144595_ssyhJ-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-vdFZLHR/0/S/ariost3-S.jpg)

Agreed! I have volume 2 and enjoy it immensely. One of these days I'll seek out the rest. The sound quality is very good indeed, I love the dark tones from the viola da gamba.

 8)

 8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on February 18, 2012, 08:45:49 AM
I hope BIS boxes these as they seem to do with lots of other stuff.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on February 18, 2012, 12:50:46 PM


Maybe not in terms of sheer excitement itself - the Derungs is pretty volatile and hard pressed - but Cremonesi has more depth and nuance. Very stylish! :)

Q

Yes, Cremonesi´s interpretation is more nuanced, but I think he also realizes  the "phantastic" element of the toccatas in a more eloquent and exciting way.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 19, 2012, 09:49:45 AM
Unfortunately many of my favorite Frescobaldi recordings are OOP at the moment.

These OOP´s include first and foremost:
Fiori Musicali by Rinaldo Alessandrini on Opus 111
Toccatas book I. by Rinaldo Alessandrini on Arcana.

Available at the moment:

The Brilliant series (complete Frescobaldi edition intended) with Robert Loreggian. which are cheap but not more than serviceable. I have not heard the vocal music releases in this series.

Also available are the Sergio Vartolo series (Tactus and Naxos - only keyboard works). I consider Vartolo an acquired taste.

Enrico Baiano´s single CD (selected harpsichord works) on Symphonia is authoritative and imaginative.
And Gustav Leonhardt´s recording of the Capriccio´s on DHM is even more authoritative and imaginative.
Lorenzo Ghielmi´s Fiori Musicali (2CD) on DHM is very good too.

So is Vartolo the  best option for a complete record of  the second book of toccatas and partitas? I have and like his recordings of the first book -- I like the tempo choices and the tranquility of the performances.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 19, 2012, 10:38:06 AM
So is Vartolo the  best option for a complete record of  the second book of toccatas and partitas? I have and like his recordings of the first book -- I like the tempo choices and the tranquility of the performances.

If you like Vartolo´s first book you, will probably like the second book too. I am a bit cautious, as it took me some time to acquire the taste for him, but at the moment he is my first choice for book two - and book one as well. On the other hand I am also slowly beginning to acquire the taste for the much more extrovert Loreggian (Brilliant). As is true of all great music, Frescobaldi´s music lends iitself well to rather different styles of interpretation.

At the moment I listen the most to Loreggian, so I have only listened to J-M Aymes´ book two (Ligia) once, and need to listen more to him. I did not know the existence of his recently released Frescobaldi recordings in 2010, when I wrote the post you quote above.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bumtz on March 19, 2012, 01:57:56 PM
Alessandro Marcello - Concerto for Oboe & Strings (Arts Music). Beautiful stuff.


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: chasmaniac on March 20, 2012, 09:22:23 AM
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-3SQmBN9/0/S/Ariost1-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AriostiStockholmII/863144595_ssyhJ-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-vdFZLHR/0/S/ariost3-S.jpg)

Not willing to wait for a box, so I've plunked for the 3.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 20, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
Not willing to wait for a box, so I've plunked for the 3.

Hi Chas - will not disappoint!  Hope that you enjoy - Dave   :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: chasmaniac on March 25, 2012, 04:13:16 AM
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-3SQmBN9/0/S/Ariost1-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AriostiStockholmII/863144595_ssyhJ-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-vdFZLHR/0/S/ariost3-S.jpg)

Delicious. Highly recommended to Baroquistas. (Emma's on her form too, in the kicker.)

Thanks for bringing these to my attention. :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 02:23:02 AM
.



A quick note on this beautiful set on which very little is written. This apart from some comments by listeners that generally seem a bit lost lost in making sense of this music in stylistic terms. As references Scarlatti, CPE Bach and the young Mozart are mentioned. :) Maybe it's because I already know the works of quite a few relevant composers before and after the Venetian Baldassare Galuppi (http://) that I don't think it's that complicated. Simply put: to my ears Galuppi is the link between the Baroque Scarlatti and the early Classical Muzio Clementi. Galuppi starts out (on disc 1) in a Scarlatti inspired style - and frankly it pales so much next to that great composer that after the 1st disc I was fairly disappointed by the musical quality and originality. Though there are some nice and original moments here and there. From the 2nd disc onwards things improve hugely: here we see Galluppi's transition, in a very varied style, to straightforward Galant Style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galante_music) or Rococo. A style on which Muzio Clement built on and (through Clementi?) influenced the young Mozart. Apart from the 1st disc, which is still interesting to witness Gauppi's development, this set offers pure enjoyment for those with a taste for the benign, ornamented and galant Rococo. :)

The booklet doesn't tell us anything about harpsichordist Ilario Gregoletto, who according to this webpage (http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nuovetendenze.org%2F%3Fp%3D1845) (Google translated) studied under Kenneth Gilbert and is a professor at the Conservatoire of Udine. Gregoletto's style is typically Italian: rhythmically astute and well articulated. His playing is flexible but groomed: he doesn't go crazy, as would be possible in this repertoire. He plays a dual-manual harpsichord, a copy after Pierre Donzalague made by Malcolm Rose (http://www.malcolm-rose.com/Harpsichords/Harpichords-details/Pierre-Donzelague-1711/pierre-donzelague-1711.htm). An instrument that doesn't sound anything like the usual lush and plush French harpsichords (like Taskin) but with a very clear and penetrating sound perfect for this repertoire. Clarity also marks the pleasant recording. Most of the content of this set, but not all, was previously issued by the tiny Italian label Musica e Musei (Rivoalto). Thank goodness, Dutch Newton Classics came to the rescue of these wonderful recordings.

Recommended for harpsichord and keyboard music buffs! :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Opus106 on May 12, 2012, 05:45:11 AM
Thank you, Que, for your setting down your initial thoughts on this music. (I was hoping you would do that. ;)) :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on June 08, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
I've been listening to records of Frescobaldi's 8th Toccata from the 1615 set. I listened to Alessandrini,  Vartolo, Hantai, a couple of Leonhardt performances and Baiano.

Iin the transition from the intro to the central section  Vartolo stops the music, you can hear him release the action of the instrument. The introduction itself is very noble, but it's the central; section that makes it a memorable performance for me. Vartolo is almost confidential, you feel as though he's playing for himself.

Hantai is equally interesting  in this Toccata in exactly the opposite way to Vartolo. Hantai is much more  witty and extrovert to my ears.

I liked others just as much, most especially Alessandrini, who is authoritative and very eloquent throughout I thought. In a way this is probably my favourite.

One thing that has been very striking is how much variety there is in the performances. This is something I'm only just learning about baroque music -- how much scope there is for interpretive discretion.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Papy Oli on July 23, 2012, 11:37:06 AM
(http://viertakt.radio4.nl/data/viertakt/images/cache/9924/d6ca8d6f494d0817ed860852c0cfc850.jpg)

in full streaming here (http://www.radio4.nl/plaatpaal-player/286/il-tormento-e-l-estasi-luis-antonio-gonz-lez.html)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Bogey on October 07, 2012, 08:03:48 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vWDZepsXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Well, I finally ordered the third installment....and I have to say that I have not had this level of anticipation of a disc arrival in some time.  The first two were fantastic and I am guessing that the third will live up to the first two.  Again, thanks Dave for test driving and sharing your thoughts on this run.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on October 07, 2012, 11:30:05 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vWDZepsXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Well, I finally ordered the third installment....and I have to say that I have not had this level of anticipation of a disc arrival in some time.  The first two were fantastic and I am guessing that the third will live up to the first two.  Again, thanks Dave for test driving and sharing your thoughts on this run.

These CD's are great, as I bought all of them in one shot.  Now I have to figure out where they are shelved.   :-[
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2012, 11:41:33 AM
You have shelves for them all? A small collection then?  :D ;D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on October 07, 2012, 11:50:59 AM
You have shelves for them all? A small collection then?  :D ;D

Multiple shelves for my CD collection spread across different rooms.  My LP collection takes up a better part of my music room ...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Bogey on October 09, 2012, 02:44:42 AM
Multiple shelves for my CD collection spread across different rooms.  My LP collection takes up a better part of my music room ...

As it should be Stuart, as it should be. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Coopmv on October 10, 2012, 11:01:26 AM
As it should be Stuart, as it should be. :)

Bill,  You are probably second to none when it comes to vinyl among the GMG members ...     ;D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: petrarch on November 25, 2012, 08:06:21 AM
I am enjoying this Sunday morning with three italians that spent a significant portion of, if not most, their lives in the British isles. All excellent, clear performances and recordings:





Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2013, 07:10:46 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ClfIancWL._SY300_.jpg)

Just heard excerpts here from a composer named Tarquinio Merula.  Anyone here have some on the shelf they would rec.?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: HIPster on June 11, 2013, 02:16:58 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ClfIancWL._SY300_.jpg)

Just heard excerpts here from a composer named Tarquinio Merula.  Anyone here have some on the shelf they would rec.?

Hi Bill -

I highly recommend you check out this fine release:



Superb playing and sound quality!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on December 08, 2013, 02:33:14 AM
Considering this, does anyone know it? :)



Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: North Star on March 30, 2014, 03:38:12 AM
I see Alessandro Melani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Melani) (1639-1703) hasn't been mentioned here at all.
Alessandrini & Concerto Italiano have recorded one album of his music, and Salve Regina a 9 voci on the album Per la Vergine Maria.
Both discs are marvelous. (See also the customer review at Amz UK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Melani-Mottetti-Motets-Alessandro/dp/B003GW1OSQ/))


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on March 30, 2014, 04:46:00 AM
They are both in the "big" (7 disc) reissue box that I was lucky enough to buy at £20, along with a good Monteverdi Vesper and a marvellous reconstructed Vivaldi Vesper service,
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: North Star on March 30, 2014, 05:30:03 AM
They are both in the "big" (7 disc) reissue box that I was lucky enough to buy at £20, along with a good Monteverdi Vesper and a marvellous reconstructed Vivaldi Vesper service,
I paid a couple of quids more for the same box, fantastic discs all of them - the Alessandro Scarlatti disc too.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on June 24, 2014, 06:55:38 AM
While Albinoni's later (mostly oboe) concerti are quite well known, his earlier, chamber-like pieces are not. Someone above already mentioned his debut, the op.1 trio sonatas on cpo. I second this recommendation and want to add the following disc with his op.2 consisting of "concerti" and "sinfonie" (which are sonatas in the style of Corelli's church sonatas, but with 4 or 5 obligato parts). These pieces are rather different from the simple, melodic oboe concertos. Much closer to Corelli, but more dense, contrapuntal writing; very interesting pieces!

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2015, 10:42:52 AM
I know three recordings either dedicated to Andrea Gabrieli's keyboard music, or with large selections:

Christopher Stembride, organ, with music by Giovani Gabrieli
Luigi Tagliavini and Liuwe Tamminga, organ, again with music by Giovani
Glen Wilson, harpsichord


Am I missing anything interesting?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on January 21, 2015, 11:16:40 AM
I know three recordings either dedicated to Andrea Gabrieli's keyboard music, or with large selections:

Christopher Stembridge, organ, with music by Giovani Gabrieli
Luigi Tagliavini and Liuwe Tamminga, organ, again with music by Giovani
Glen Wilson, harpsichord


Am I missing anything interesting?

Yes, this one:

http://www.amazon.de/Pass-E-Mezzo-Bonizzoni-Fabio/dp/B00002473N/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421867740&sr=1-1&keywords=bonizzoni+gabrieli

Edit:

I do not know the Stembridge recording, but I would suspect it to be most enjoyable.

A propos A. Gabrieli I searched the recordings listed by Amazon.it and found this:

http://www.amazon.it/Venezianisches-Spinett-Roland-G%C3%B6tz/dp/B000024PSR/ref=sr_1_25?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421869413&sr=1-25&keywords=andrea+gabrieli

which I ordered at once, knowing Roland Götz as being a very HIP and versatile musician.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Artem on January 21, 2015, 05:53:07 PM


   I have that CD. It is so addictive and some of the pieces are almost like pop music, such catchy vocal lines.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on January 22, 2015, 08:58:35 AM
Yes, this one:

http://www.amazon.de/Pass-E-Mezzo-Bonizzoni-Fabio/dp/B00002473N/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421867740&sr=1-1&keywords=bonizzoni+gabrieli

Edit:

I do not know the Stembridge recording, but I would suspect it to be most enjoyable.

A propos A. Gabrieli I searched the recordings listed by Amazon.it and found this:

http://www.amazon.it/Venezianisches-Spinett-Roland-G%C3%B6tz/dp/B000024PSR/ref=sr_1_25?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421869413&sr=1-25&keywords=andrea+gabrieli

which I ordered at once, knowing Roland Götz as being a very HIP and versatile musician.

Thanks. I'll check out the Bonizzoni, it's on spotify. And I can confirm that Stembridge is indeed enjoyable. Re roland Goetz's CD, there's very little on it by Andrea Gabrieli I think.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on January 22, 2015, 09:31:44 AM
Re roland Goetz's CD, there's very little on it by Andrea Gabrieli I think.

Yes, and had I been uninterested in the other composers represented, I probably hadn´t ordered it.
But I also rely on Götz. One has to take chances now and then. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 06, 2015, 10:02:44 PM
(http://www.classicalnext.com/net/image/record/francesco_tasini_claudio_merulo_ed_middle_41583.jpg)

Francesco Tasini plays Toccatas by Claudio Merulo on Merula's organ at the Conservatory of Parma.

The Toccatas represent one of those big early music comrehensive encyclopedic works - two toccatas for each tone, nearly three hours of music. I'm impressed by the variety of feelings, and a sort of sweetness in Bk 1 at least. Book 2 of the toccatas goes even further in the direction of "great music", more abstract, I would say.

Claudio Tasini is a musician worth exporing I would say. His great strength over the other recordings of Merulo I've heard (Molardi) is that he plays for affekt: the music flows, the agogocs and syncopated rhythms sound natural, the virtuosity is unobtrusive, the registrations are colourful, the organ is dead right for the music, Tasini conveys a sense of abandon and freedom. In addition to this Merulo I've heard some fine Alessandro Scarlatti. Tasini's convinced me that Merulo's keyboard music is in the same league as Frescobaldi and Andrea Gabrieli, and I feel glad that my positive appreciation of Italian music is widening. I need to listen again to Tasini playing Frescobaldi Capricci.

The organ Tasini uses is quite simply wonderful - by turns sharp, sour, sweet and rich. Quality of music and variety of affects and Merulo's distinctive language apart, this is one hell of a recording from the point of view of colour, sound, tone.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 13, 2015, 11:20:58 AM
Yes, and had I been uninterested in the other composers represented, I probably hadn´t ordered it.
But I also rely on Götz. One has to take chances now and then. :)

I think this was an outstanding suggestion, thank you. A musician whose style is one I like, a lovely instrument, and lots of new music for me to explore. I can see that there are a lot of recordings by Roland Götz by familiar and unfamiliar composers. You were dead right to call him versatile!

Any suggestions for particularly outstanding recordings? Or maybe I'll just buy all of them.

(Slowly the world of Italian baroque keyboard music is starting to reveal itself to me, more masterpieces are coming to light. That's very satisfying.)

http://www.studio-xvii-augsburg.de/cds
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 13, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
I think this was an outstanding suggestion, thank you. A musician whose style is one I like, a lovely instrument, and lots of new music for me to explore. I can see that there are a lot of recordings by Roland Götz by familiar and unfamiliar composers. You were dead right to call him versatile!

Any suggestions for particularly outstanding recordings? Or maybe I'll just buy all of them.

(Slowly the world of Italian baroque keyboard music is starting to reveal itself to me, more masterpieces are coming to light. That's very satisfying.)

http://www.studio-xvii-augsburg.de/cds

I own ten of the CDs and intend to get the rest. The only one, which disappointed me a bit, is the one called Lust auf Suiten, - it is not that bad, but the competition is too strong.

Edit: I just ordered five more.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 13, 2015, 03:50:21 PM
Francesco Tasini plays Toccatas by Claudio Merulo on Merula's organ at the Conservatory of Parma.

Francesco Tasini is a musician worth exporing I would say. His great strength over the other recordings of Merulo I've heard (Molardi) is that he plays for affekt: the music flows, the agogocs and syncopated rhythms sound natural, the virtuosity is unobtrusive, the registrations are colourful, the organ is dead right for the music, Tasini conveys a sense of abandon and freedom. In addition to this Merulo I've heard some fine Alessandro Scarlatti. Tasini's convinced me that Merulo's keyboard music is in the same league as Frescobaldi and Andrea Gabrieli, and I feel glad that my positive appreciation of Italian music is widening. I need to listen again to Tasini playing Frescobaldi Capricci.

The organ Tasini uses is quite simply wonderful - by turns sharp, sour, sweet and rich. Quality of music and variety of affects and Merulo's distinctive language apart, this is one hell of a recording from the point of view of colour, sound, tone.

And this is actually Tasini´s second recording of the toccatas. On the first recording he played the toccatas from book I on a 4´ chamber organ built by Merulo himself. I agree that Tasini is far more convincing than Molardi, even if I can see the point in Molardi´s playing style.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 14, 2015, 12:08:12 AM
(http://www.classicalnext.com/net/image/record/francesco_tasini_claudio_merulo_ed_middle_41583.jpg)

Francesco Tasini plays Toccatas by Claudio Merulo on Merula's organ at the Conservatory of Parma.

The Toccatas represent one of those big early music comrehensive encyclopedic works - two toccatas for each tone, nearly three hours of music. I'm impressed by the variety of feelings, and a sort of sweetness in Bk 1 at least. Book 2 of the toccatas goes even further in the direction of "great music", more abstract, I would say.

Claudio Tasini is a musician worth exporing I would say. His great strength over the other recordings of Merulo I've heard (Molardi) is that he plays for affekt: the music flows, the agogocs and syncopated rhythms sound natural, the virtuosity is unobtrusive, the registrations are colourful, the organ is dead right for the music, Tasini conveys a sense of abandon and freedom. In addition to this Merulo I've heard some fine Alessandro Scarlatti. Tasini's convinced me that Merulo's keyboard music is in the same league as Frescobaldi and Andrea Gabrieli, and I feel glad that my positive appreciation of Italian music is widening. I need to listen again to Tasini playing Frescobaldi Capricci.

The organ Tasini uses is quite simply wonderful - by turns sharp, sour, sweet and rich. Quality of music and variety of affects and Merulo's distinctive language apart, this is one hell of a recording from the point of view of colour, sound, tone.

And this is actually Tasini´s second recording of the toccatas. On the first recording he played the toccatas from book I on a 4´ chamber organ built by Merulo himself. I agree that Tasini is far more convincing than Molardi, even if I can see the point in Molardi´s playing style.

Is Claudio Merulo, who died in 1604, really a Baroque Composer? ::) (Monterverdi died some 40 years later)

Anyway, I described Francesco Tasini's participation in the Tactus Frescobaldi box set as "a breath of fresh air" so he should be OK! :) Though his Acanio Maione harpsichord disc was a disappointment to me.....
But would you guys like to elaborate on the edge his Merolu has on Molardi's, which I liked very much? I'm listening to on line samples of Tasini's Merulo set on Tactus right now, and can't quite figure it out… Unless qualifications like "natural" and "unobtrusive" signify a preference for a steady flow in the music and a dislike of ornamentations? :)

BTW for the record: Molardi's organs are not less appropriate or colourful, and definitely better recorded by DIVOX.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 14, 2015, 04:30:26 AM
Is Claudio Merulo, who died in 1604, really a Baroque Composer? ::) (Monterverdi died some 40 years later)

Well, composers in periods of stylistic transition often do not fit completely in any of the periods. F.i. is Beethoven a romantic or a classical composer?

Quote from: Que
But would you guys like to elaborate on the edge his Merolu has on Molardi's, which I liked very much? I'm listening to on line samples of Tasini's Merulo set on Tactus right now, and can't quite figure it out… Unless qualifications like "natural" and "unobtrusive" signify a preference for a steady flow in the music and a dislike of ornamentations? :)

Merulo´s  toccatas consist to a large degree of changing harmonies with interspersed passing notes and figuration (alternating with more polyphonic sections). Molardis style is characterized by predominance of the harmonies and suppression of the figuration (even in the true polyphonic sections), the result sounding vertical. Tasini´s style on the contrary is characterized by predominance of the figurations - so much, that you generally feel, that the figurations determine the harmonies, making a horizontal (polyphonic) impression. This is even more clear in his first recording of the toccatas from the First Book (on chamber-organ, see above). The question is now, whether Merulo is a baroque composer - then the horizontal impression would be the most adequate - or if he is a renaissance composer - then the vertical impression would be more adequate (compare f.i. with the chordal-writing in some toccatas of the Gabrieli´s).
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on March 14, 2015, 05:25:23 AM
Just started to investigate this thread and already I can see that it will have heavy fincial repercussions based on what I have seen  :laugh:
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 14, 2015, 05:36:44 AM
Well, composers in periods of stylistic transition often do not fit completely in any of the periods. F.i. is Beethoven a romantic or a classical composer?

Merulo´s  toccatas consist to a large degree of changing harmonies with interspersed passing notes and figuration (alternating with more polyphonic sections). Molardis style is characterized by predominance of the harmonies and suppression of the figuration (even in the true polyphonic sections), the result sounding vertical. Tasini´s style on the contrary is characterized by predominance of the figurations - so much, that you generally feel, that the figurations determine the harmonies, making a horizontal (polyphonic) impression. This is even more clear in his first recording of the toccatas from the First Book (on chamber-organ, see above). The question is now, whether Merulo is a baroque composer - then the horizontal impression would be the most adequate - or if he is a renaissance composer - then the vertical impression would be more adequate (compare f.i. with the chordal-writing in some toccatas of the Gabrieli´s).

Well, perhaps due to the impression Molardi's interpretation left on me, Merulo felt (still) very much like Renaissance to me - unlike Frescobaldi, for instance. Thanks for the elaborate explanation.  :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 14, 2015, 07:00:57 AM
And this is actually Tasini´s second recording of the toccatas. On the first recording he played the toccatas from book I on a 4´ chamber organ built by Merulo himself.

. . . This is even more clear in his first recording of the toccatas from the First Book (on chamber-organ, see above).

Thanks. I didn't know he'd recorded Bk 1 twice and I was confused about organs in my first post it seems (listening on spotify so no booklet) Anyway I've just ordered his first recording of Bk 1.

I'm not sure I find Molardi particularly poetic even by renaissance standards I'm afraid, but one thing I am sure of, Que, is that you'll find Tasini a completely different type of experience.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 14, 2015, 07:07:48 AM
Thanks. I didn't know he'd recorded Bk 1 twice and I was confused about organs in my first post it seems (listening on spotify so no booklet) Anyway I've just ordered his first recording of Bk 1.

I'm not sure I find Molardi particularly poetic even by renaissance standards I'm afraid.

Poetic?  ::) That term could hardly apply to any Renaissance music IMO.
You mean you don't particularly like his interpretations,  I presume... Why doesn't that quite come as a surprise? :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 14, 2015, 07:41:00 AM
I think I meant that in the Tasini there's a feeling of abundance of imagination and invention. And freshness.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 14, 2015, 08:41:57 AM
I think I meant that in the Tasini there's a feeling of abundance of imagination and invention. And freshness.

Cannot say that I found Molardi lacking in these qualities.
I guess different approaches appeal to different people in different ways...

In due time, I will definitely investigate Tasini's take! :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 15, 2015, 03:43:31 AM
Well, perhaps due to the impression Molardi's interpretation left on me, Merulo felt (still) very much like Renaissance to me - unlike Frescobaldi, for instance. Thanks for the elaborate explanation.  :)

Q

One can say, that Molardi and Tasini - thanks to their different approach - complement each other, and it is nice to have both.

BTW (out of topic) what do you think of Molardis Bach?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 15, 2015, 04:53:41 AM
One can say, that Molardi and Tasini - thanks to their different approach - complement each other, and it is nice to have both.

BTW (out of topic) what do you think of Molardis Bach?

Listening to the Molardi set this morning helped me understand your comments better. Indee, these are quite diferent approaches.
Now my dilemma is wheter to move Merulo from my Early music section to the Italian Baroque shelves?  :D

The announcment of Molardi's Bach series enthused me, the organs used would be the icing on the cake. But sampling the stuff made me doubt about the wisdom of Brilliant and Molardi's choice in this... To quote Harry: it's a mess..... My preliminary impressions are that it does sound like a brilliant Italian organist, but with limited Bach experience...It sounds like one big experiment with some interesting insights, but basically he is all over the place and completely lost at times.. ::) For me an overarching grasp of the musical structure of the music is important, and I do not hear that.

But I might still curious enough to actually buy one volume for a proper try out. :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2015, 09:46:07 AM
(http://www.boosey.com/imagesw/shop/product/$wm1_0x700_$_8553553-56_cov.jpg) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6h0JU9aHrwU/US-U9o58IwI/AAAAAAABZwU/Gv8zBEOSNJg/s400/trabaci+portada.PNG)

These recording by Sergio Vartolo and Francesco Tasini of Giavanni Trabaci's second book of organ music have convinced me that the Cento Versi is a major thing, maybe as intetesting as Frescobaldi's liturgical music. Vartolo's seems particularly wonderful to me. And it's made me hungry to hear more inspired Trabaci performances. Suggestions appreciated.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2015, 10:50:16 AM
Yes, this one:

http://www.amazon.de/Pass-E-Mezzo-Bonizzoni-Fabio/dp/B00002473N/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421867740&sr=1-1&keywords=bonizzoni+gabrieli

Edit:

I do not know the Stembridge recording, but I would suspect it to be most enjoyable.

A propos A. Gabrieli I searched the recordings listed by Amazon.it and found this:

http://www.amazon.it/Venezianisches-Spinett-Roland-G%C3%B6tz/dp/B000024PSR/ref=sr_1_25?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421869413&sr=1-25&keywords=andrea+gabrieli

which I ordered at once, knowing Roland Götz as being a very HIP and versatile musician.

I was glad to find an Andrea Gabrieli mass (Missa de Beata Virgine) here, even though it's played on a neo baroque organ (In Bergamo near Milan), and the chanting seems workmanlike. Registrations are sober but reveal the polyphony. Richard Lester won't play the emotions. He's energetic, and sometimes there's a sense of dancing ecstacy. It's the sort of playing which would appeal to people who can tolerate  Scott Ross or Christophe Rousset's early recordings.

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Jan14/Organ_masses_v1_NI5909.jpg)


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 20, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
Thanks. I didn't know he'd recorded Bk 1 twice and I was confused about organs in my first post it seems (listening on spotify so no booklet) Anyway I've just ordered his first recording of Bk 1.

Tasini also recorded Merulo´s toccate Book II twice, but on a different organ, Here is the first recording of Book II:

http://www.amazon.it/Orgelwerke-Francesco-Tasini/dp/B00005Y2HN/ref=sr_1_17?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426889098&sr=1-17&keywords=francesco+tasini

Concerning Trabaci I own the Vartolo and the Tasini, and none but these, and I have not seen other collections of his organ works.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 20, 2015, 02:19:16 PM
Listening to the Molardi set this morning helped me understand your comments better. Indee, these are quite diferent approaches.
Now my dilemma is wheter to move Merulo from my Early music section to the Italian Baroque shelves?  :D

The announcment of Molardi's Bach series enthused me, the organs used would be the icing on the cake. But sampling the stuff made me doubt about the wisdom of Brilliant and Molardi's choice in this... To quote Harry: it's a mess..... My preliminary impressions are that it does sound like a brilliant Italian organist, but with limited Bach experience...It sounds like one big experiment with some interesting insights, but basically he is all over the place and completely lost at times.. ::) For me an overarching grasp of the musical structure of the music is important, and I do not hear that.

But I might still curious enough to actually buy one volume for a proper try out. :)




Q

I have recently traversed his Bach set, and it is indeed a mixed pleasure. Some of it is very fine, e.g. the triosonatas and the Dorian, but other things are horrible. What is particularly disturbing is his often strange registrations and changing of stops.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 24, 2015, 09:49:24 AM
Tasini also recorded Merulo´s toccate Book II twice, but on a different organ, Here is the first recording of Book II:

http://www.amazon.it/Orgelwerke-Francesco-Tasini/dp/B00005Y2HN/ref=sr_1_17?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426889098&sr=1-17&keywords=francesco+tasini



The first recording of Book 1 is really exciting, thanks for pointing it out.  I love the organ. It's a shame the first Bk 2 is on a different organ. If you get a chance to listen let me know if you think it's good to buy, given that I have access to his second recording of Bk 2. I would have bought it without hesitation if it had been on the Parma Conservatory organ - as indeed I'd probably buy anything else recorded it.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 27, 2015, 11:38:34 AM
The first recording of Book 1 [Tasini / Merulo] is really exciting, thanks for pointing it out.  I love the organ. It's a shame the first Bk 2 is on a different organ. If you get a chance to listen let me know if you think it's good to buy, given that I have access to his second recording of Bk 2. I would have bought it without hesitation if it had been on the Parma Conservatory organ - as indeed I'd probably buy anything else recorded it.

I also own his first recording of the toccatas from Book II, but actually I find his second recording preferable, when it is about Book II.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 27, 2015, 11:50:04 AM
These recording by Sergio Vartolo and Francesco Tasini of Giavanni Trabaci's second book of organ music have convinced me that the Cento Versi is a major thing, maybe as intetesting as Frescobaldi's liturgical music. Vartolo's seems particularly wonderful to me. And it's made me hungry to hear more inspired Trabaci performances. Suggestions appreciated.

Prompted by your post I looked for recordings of music by Trabaci and found this:

http://www.amazon.de/Opere-Clavicembalo-Lydia-Maria-Blank/dp/B003U47AP6/ref=sr_1_32?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1427485651&sr=1-32&keywords=trabaci

I never heard of L M Blank before, but she is utterly outstanding and convincing. Her love for this music can be heard in every note. Recommended without reservations.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 27, 2015, 12:22:35 PM
Prompted by your post I looked for recordings of music by Trabaci and found this:

http://www.amazon.de/Opere-Clavicembalo-Lydia-Maria-Blank/dp/B003U47AP6/ref=sr_1_32?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1427485651&sr=1-32&keywords=trabaci

I never heard of L M Blank before, but she is utterly outstanding and convincing. Her love for this music can be heard in every note. Recommended without reservations.

Interesting label  BTW. And what about this, do you know it? :)



Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 27, 2015, 12:32:17 PM
Interesting label  BTW. And what about this, do you know it? :)



Q

No. I do not know it, incidentally I ordered it half an hour ago.

But I know this:

http://www.amazon.de/Organo-Napoletano-Michele-Deverite-Orgel/dp/B000087RG9/ref=sr_1_29?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1427488034&sr=1-29&keywords=trabaci

also by Dévérité, played on a small period Italian organ. From the listeners point of view this CD contains too many ultra short pieces (maybe about 60 versi playing about 30 seconds each) and there is accordingly a lack of continuity, but the interpretation is informed and expressive.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 27, 2015, 12:41:50 PM
No. I do not know it, incidentally I ordered it half an hour ago.

You might like it, I did! :)

Quote
But I know this:

http://www.amazon.de/Organo-Napoletano-Michele-Deverite-Orgel/dp/B000087RG9/ref=sr_1_29?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1427488034&sr=1-29&keywords=trabaci

also by Dévérité, played on a small period Italian organ. From the listeners point of view this CD contains too many ultra short pieces (maybe about 60 versi playing about 30 seconds each) and there is accordingly a lack of continuity, but the interpretation is informed and expressive.

I definitely believe that, given my experience withe the harpsichord disc.  :) My eye is currently on her Maione recording now.

Fo rmore Trabaci I got this, but haven't listened to it yet:


Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on March 27, 2015, 12:43:58 PM
Fo rmore Trabaci I got this, but haven't listened to it yet:


Q

Do it now, you will love it. :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 28, 2015, 06:45:42 AM
Prompted by your post I looked for recordings of music by Trabaci and found this:

http://www.amazon.de/Opere-Clavicembalo-Lydia-Maria-Blank/dp/B003U47AP6/ref=sr_1_32?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1427485651&sr=1-32&keywords=trabaci

I never heard of L M Blank before, but she is utterly outstanding and convincing. Her love for this music can be heard in every note. Recommended without reservations.

Absolutely - thanks for pointing this out. More than anyone else she made me think of the affinity with Frescobaldi. I had come across Lydia Maria Blank before through a recording of Spanish music, misleadingly called Folias (misleading because it's not just stuffed with La Folia music.) It contains the most humane performances of music by Cabanilles I've ever heard.

Another good source for Trabaci is Maria Galassi's recording called La Viaggio di Lucrezzia. Just a couple of tracks, but movingly done. The great shame is that Paola Erdas didn't record any Trabaci, she was made for it: he lived in a place ruled over by Gesualdo after all.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: JCBuckley on March 30, 2015, 09:42:46 AM
Does anyone have a view on this? It got a rave review in one UK paper, but I've seen very little mention of it otherwise.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on April 12, 2015, 02:32:24 AM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/decca4788194.jpg)

Currently spotted om presto classical's future releases page.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on April 14, 2015, 04:53:26 AM
When it comes to 18th century cello concertos, the first name that comes to mind is Boccherini. The second is Haydn. The third is Vivaldi. Or the other way around. Or any combination of the three. And that´s just about it, right? Wrong.

Leonardo Leo (actually, this is only a grazioso abbreviation of his name, which is a full con bravura Lionardo Oronzio Salvatore de Leo), born in 1694 in the charmingly named town of San Vito degli Schiavoni, near Brindisi, died in 1744 in Naples a death that I imagine many a composer would have wished for: hit by a stroke while composing. While he is known primarily for his many operas (which firmly established his reputation within the Neapolitan School) and his sacred music (his Miserere for two choirs being praised by none other that Richard Wagner) he also wrote some purely instrumental music, among which 6 cello concertos composed in 1737-38.

Listening to them is not going to shatter any ground, but it might come as a shock to anyone expecting operatic tricks and gimmicks for the cello, as one might expect from a composer whose reputation rests solely on (Neapolitan) opera. In this music Leo looks both back and ahead. Back, because of the rather tight contrapuntal writing (quite un-operatic actually), and of the strict adherence to the slow-fast-slow-fast pattern of sonata da chiesa; ahead, because of his penchant for contrasting themes, which in several movements comes dangerously close to something which decades later was to be called the sonata form. And he achieve all this with a light orchestral texture and a floating graciousness which is not far away from the stilo galante. All but one of the opening movements are marked Andante/Andantino grazioso, and this in itself speaks volumes about the mood this music sets up right from the start.

We are blessed with no less than two (sic!) complete recordings:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/010/MI0001010349.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/040/MI0001040975.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Bylsma and Taffelmusik are a bit lighter in their approach than Suzuki and Van Wassenaers and the cello is recorded more upfront than Suzuki´s. This makes for a nicely delineated contrast between the soloist and the orchestra, while Suzuki is more like a prominent part of the same orchestra. In the second movement of the D-major concerto, unusually marked Con bravura, both come short of it in different ways: Bylsma is more brave than Suzuki but the orchestra doesn´t follow, while the Van Wassenaers are more brave than Taffelmusiks but Suzuki is rather understated. In the Fuga of the same concerto they are both successful in different ways: Bylsma takes a faster approach, muddling the voices a bit but giving a compelling feeling of momentum and forward moving; Suzuki takes it slower, all voices are clearly delineated and it sounds quite majestic. The continuo in the Bylsma set is rather on the intrusive side, especially if one listens through headphones; Suzuki has it mellower and more discrete.

Both sets have their merits and limitationss, they complement each other quite well and I wouldn´t want to be without any of them. Neither should you, actually.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: JCBuckley on April 14, 2015, 08:40:25 AM
Very interesting, Florestan - thanks. I think there's one other complete set of the cello concerti available on CD, by Arturo Bonucci & the Ensemble Strumentale Italiano, issued on two discs. I've never heard it, though - have you?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on April 14, 2015, 08:56:10 AM
Very interesting, Florestan - thanks. I think there's one other complete set of the cello concerti available on CD, by Arturo Bonucci & the Ensemble Strumentale Italiano, issued on two discs. I've never heard it, though - have you?

I haven´t either. Maybe someone else has, and can offer his thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on April 15, 2015, 03:45:44 AM
(Cross-posting from WAYLT)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/098/MI0001098440.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Ignazio Albertini belongs to the very exclusivistic club of composers who have been stabbed to death (the other member being Jean-Marie Leclair). If this trivia piqued your interest, here´s the AllMusic review of the above disc.

Helene Schmitt is hot stuff. In this disc of violin sonatas by the nearly unknown Ignazio Albertini, the contemporary of Biber and Schmelzer comes passionately alive under her supple bow and sensitive fingers. In Schmitt's performances, the wildly virtuosic and extravagantly emotional music of Albertini sounds like it could only have been composed by a man stabbed to death in obscure circumstances. There's poise and grace in Schmitt's performances, as well elevated lyricism. But most of all there's passion: a passionate intensity of line, a passionate concentration of tone, a passionate brilliance of color, a passionate love of this fiercely expressive and violently beautiful music. Schmitt's trio of continuo players are sympathetic players and each gets his/her own sweet solo Prelude or Toccatina interspersed with Schmitt's Sonatas. Alpha's sound is tactile in its realism and its tiny but stunning reproduction of Guido Cagnacci's The Death of Cleopatra is a visual treat.

And here´s the whole thing on YT

https://www.youtube.com/v/Yz5i_0nr2YM
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on April 15, 2015, 06:16:20 AM
Wasn't Alessandro Stradella stabbed to death as well?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on April 15, 2015, 07:08:52 AM
Wasn't Alessandro Stradella stabbed to death as well?

Yes. Now, that makes three and counting.  :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: The new erato on April 15, 2015, 11:55:15 AM
Karl Henning better be careful.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on April 15, 2015, 09:53:39 PM
Karl's name does not sound very Italian, he should be safe. It probably also helps to restrict one's womanizing to girls who are not already involved with powerful noblemen...
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Moonfish on April 18, 2015, 12:02:56 PM
another one from the most recent delivery:


Guess I can safely buy whatever that ensemble releases!

Tell us more!!   0:)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: king ubu on April 18, 2015, 10:13:31 PM
Tell us more!!   0:)

Not really equipped to do so, I'm afraid ... but the disc captures some music of the short time Florence was the center of new vocal music (monody/opera), Dumestre gives the years as 1582 to 1616 in his introductory note. "We ... present three different stages in the evolution of parlar cantando. The arie from Giulio Caccini's Nuove Musiche and Claudio Saracini's Musiche, both published in 1614, illustrate the theories based on intoned declamation (stile recitativo) that Girolamo Mei expressed in letters to Vincenzo Galilei, and which Jacopo Peri later expounded in his preface to Euridice. The few surviving fragments of Il Rapimento di Cefalo, to a text by Gabriello Chiabrera, show the same aim, but their melodic expression comes halfway between 'ordinary' speech and an extremely ornate, declamatory mode of singing. Finally, Belli's Opera dolente is far from the idea of noble declamation. The libretto of the work was by the same poet, Chiabrera, but in Orfeo dolente Belli leaves no room at all for the grace and noble nonchalance of sprezzatura as conceived by Peri or Caccini. Orfeo dolente is above all a bitter lament, a monologue, for Orpheus, whois inconsolable and deaf to the responses and entreaties of the other characters. It is an experimental work: the character of Euridice is absent, and the usual happy conclusion is rejected, leaving Orpheus to his grief. The court tradition is waived, and Belli brings his own style to the fore. Whereas Caccini and Peri fill their recitative with basic harmonies (the tonic is often present for a good third of the solo song or madrigal), Belli uses harmony like an impressionist painter: it is impossible to tell where his musical phrase is heading and very few cadences are resolved as expeted; dissonances are never prepared, and his use of melody, unusually disjunct and dilated by chromaticisms, is remarkable, to say the least; it is easy to understand why singers of the time were so confused and reluctant to perform his music, which they found 'difficult and unsingable' (letter from Belli to Ferdinando Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua, 11 June 1616)." (from Vincent Dumestre's liner notes)

As for Le Poème harmonique, they're simply exquisit. Their long run of Alpha releases is terrific! They usually have excellent singers as well (don't take that "usually" as a slight, I'm not aware of other, but I don't know all their work), such as Guillemette Laurens, Claire Lefilliâtre, Jan van Elsacker. Last year alone they were responsible for two of my favorite releases: Charpentier/Lully Te Deum and Clérambault: Miserere / Couperin: Leçons de Ténèbres, but older discs dedicated to the likes of Belli, Charles Tessier, Antoine Boesset, Bellerofonte Castaldi etc., are all excellent. They also did Michel Richard Delalande's magnificient Tenebrae (with Lefilliâtre, I've mentioned it in the Lalande-thread already, a while ago).

Playing the disc again right now, btw, becasue I was sidetracked halfway through yesterday.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on May 13, 2015, 04:58:51 AM
Please help! Que, Mandryka, Premont!

I´ve been listening to
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6h0JU9aHrwU/US-U9o58IwI/AAAAAAABZwU/Gv8zBEOSNJg/s400/trabaci+portada.PNG)

and

(http://img1.imagesbn.com/p/5028421940496_p0_v1_s260x420.JPG)

Last night they put me to sleep within half an hour each. I wait, and wait, and wait, for a melodic line to pop up --- but to no avail! Layer upon layer of chords after chords wihtout any purpose and meaning. What am I missing? Is this music supposed to not have any melody at all? Am I supposed to just revel in the juxtaposition of different harmonic layers? Well, I can´t. Music without melody is no music at all to my ears. Should I then give up on those composers?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on May 13, 2015, 08:03:44 AM
Please help! Que, Mandryka, Premont!

I´ve been listening to
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6h0JU9aHrwU/US-U9o58IwI/AAAAAAABZwU/Gv8zBEOSNJg/s400/trabaci+portada.PNG)

and

(http://img1.imagesbn.com/p/5028421940496_p0_v1_s260x420.JPG)

Last night they put me to sleep within half an hour each. I wait, and wait, and wait, for a melodic line to pop up --- but to no avail! Layer upon layer of chords after chords wihtout any purpose and meaning. What am I missing? Is this music supposed to not have any melody at all? Am I supposed to just revel in the juxtaposition of different harmonic layers? Well, I can´t. Music without melody is no music at all to my ears. Should I then give up on those composers?

You should listen to Vartolo's Frescobaldi capricci, his approach there seems to me to be derived from madrigal singing. I also suggest Vartolo for Trabaci.

The Frescobaldi Ricercari always remind me of Bach's late contrapuntal music, I don't know of Bach was aware of them.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on May 13, 2015, 08:10:32 AM
You should listen to Vartolo's Frescobaldi capricci, his approach there seems to me to be derived from madrigal singing.

I don't know.... No melody, no music for me... Give me accompanied homophony and I'll give you music, period!  :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on May 13, 2015, 08:53:27 AM
Please help! Que, Mandryka, Premont!

Last night they put me to sleep within half an hour each. I wait, and wait, and wait, for a melodic line to pop up --- but to no avail! Layer upon layer of chords after chords wihtout any purpose and meaning. What am I missing? Is this music supposed to not have any melody at all? Am I supposed to just revel in the juxtaposition of different harmonic layers? Well, I can´t. Music without melody is no music at all to my ears. Should I then give up on those composers?

Contrapuntal music of that kind is for the composer not about writing catchy melodies, but about finding a musical subject suitable for many ways of combinations, and then arrange them in a logical way, which establishes the wanted affect, and which creates variety and rising intensity in the course of the composition, and in its essence represents a musical sequence, which BTW may be more or less inspiring for the listener, according to the quality of the composer. It is without doubt very difficult to create quality music in this way.

But if you just want a melody, you may remember, there are tons of other composers to listen to, also in the baroque age (much Bach, and most Händel and Vivaldi et.c.).

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 13, 2015, 11:01:44 PM
Please help! Que, Mandryka, Premont!

I´ve been listening to [Trabaci & Frescobaldi]

Last night they put me to sleep within half an hour each. I wait, and wait, and wait, for a melodic line to pop up --- but to no avail! Layer upon layer of chords after chords wihtout any purpose and meaning. What am I missing? Is this music supposed to not have any melody at all? Am I supposed to just revel in the juxtaposition of different harmonic layers? Well, I can´t. Music without melody is no music at all to my ears. Should I then give up on those composers?

 :D I guess that is, like Premont pointed out, that way the music is. But....I do think performances music from this period should have a flow and an improvisatory character to it, like the use of ornamentations.
On those accounts I do not concur with the recommendation of Vartolo's baren, stop-and-go style.

Tasini disspointed me in Mayone. Try  Franceso Cera's organ & harpsichord set on Brillant for Trabaci, that impressed greatly. Though Dévérité's charming Trabaci disc still holds it own. :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on May 14, 2015, 01:25:45 AM
In early Italian baroque Monteverdi (and also Caccini and others) can be very melodic, probably more obvious in the solo/duo stuff like scherzi musicali (Maledetto sia l'aspetto or the "Zefiro" with the ciacona pattern etc.) 
I guess Frescobaldi ricercari are supposed to be both "learned" and specifically instrumental, so vocal/melodical qualities are not a priority. I think I have one Leonhardt Frescobaldi disc but I cannot claim deeper familiarity.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 11:07:21 PM
Thank you guys for your thoughts and suggestions.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on September 30, 2015, 11:10:24 PM
Highly recommended (I´m talking to you, Que!)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QvOLVmfvL.jpg)

From the Glossa website:

Mitzi Meyerson likes to come up with surprising musical finds or rediscoveries and her latest, the Opera Prima of Giovanni Battista Somis, is as fascinating as her recordings devoted to Richard Jones and Gottlieb Muffat. Indeed, the harpsichordist chanced upon the score for this set of Baroque violin sonatas – first published in 1717 – when investigating the music of Richard Jones in the British Library, finding thereby another trove of forgotten Baroque gems.

Somis worked for the Dukes of Savoy, initially in Turin, in the early 18th century, but studied with Corelli in Rome, later befriended Vivaldi, and himself taught many subsequent prominent violinists, including Jean-Marie Leclair. Known as a virtuoso on the violin himself (and he is even said to have composed 152 violin concertos!), Somis even performed at the Concert Spirituel in Paris. This, his first collection of sonatas, was dedicated to the powerful Regent of Savoy, Marie-Jeanne-Baptiste de Savoie, the mother of the future duke, Vittorio Amedeo II. The music is often very galant and perfectly combines Italian and French features.

Together with violinist Kreeta-Maria Kentala and cellist Lauri Pulakka, Meyerson fully enters into the Baroque spirit of transcribing and arranging on this Glossa recording by varying these 12 three-movement sonatas with all the stylistic experience and insight that the modern day musicians can offer.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on September 30, 2015, 11:35:29 PM
I can't go through 10 pages to check, but the Glossa disc reminds me of another one from that label, actually a re-issue of some early 1990s italian recording with a set of Lamentationes by Alessandro Scarlatti, directed by Enrico Gatti. These are for solo or maybe sometimes two singers only, not choral like most other settings but for those who like Scarlatti's and Pergolesi's Stabat Mater settings, they should be mandatory:

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on October 03, 2015, 12:44:27 AM
Highly recommended (I´m talking to you, Que!)



I hear you, Anrdei! Thanks for the recommendation.  :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Rinaldo on November 26, 2015, 01:46:46 PM
Albicastro, who the hell is Henrico Albicastro?! I've already gushed about him in the listening thread but guys, his twelve concertos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNvxFy_GtvQ) have to be heard to be believed.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Giovanni Henrico Albicastro was the italianized name of Bavarian composer Johann Heinrich von Weissenburg (c. 1660 – after 1730), a talented amateur musician who published his compositions pseudonymously.

I guess his stuff belongs in the Italian thread? I've searched GMG and there was only a single mention of him. Let's fix that! This is gorgeous, Top of the Baroque Pops stuff, no two ways about it. Unfortunately, these are the only recordings available:


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2016, 10:53:12 PM
(http://tactus.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/661914_Cover-1024x1015.jpg)

The music on this recording by Francesco Tasini, part of his complete Alessandro Scarlatti, sounds small scale and domestic. But that's no hardship at all: it is supple, delicate and singing. The real star is the harpsichord, an anonymous 18th century instrument from Ferrara. Well worth hearing I would say, and revelatory for me who had only heard Alessandrini's Scarlatti before: the music and the music making here is a totally different kettle of fish.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on January 29, 2016, 04:06:21 AM
There is so little information on Roman composer Pietro Paolo Bencini (c. 1670 - 1755) available online, that I am going to copy it in:

Quote
Bencini was born into a family of musicians of which he was to become the most famous member. In 1703 he was included in the group of Roman masters of the chapel who were officially recognized by the congregation of musicians; he was then maestro di cappella at Santa Maria dell'Anima, the Germanic church in Rome. The title in fact meant that Bencini had the task of organizing the music for important feast days.

In 1705, he succeeded Alessandro Scarlatti as maestro coadiutore, i.e. 'assistant' to Giovanni Bicilli, who had then composed and directed the music for the Congregazione dell'Oratorio di San Filippo Neri at Santa Maria in Valcella for almost fifty years. When Bicilli died in October of that year, Bencini took over his position. In 1706, he was elected guardian of the congregation of musicians, an important post, to which he was re-elected the following year and again in 1712. In 1743 he obtained the post of maestro di cappella at the Cappella Giulia in St Peter's in succession to Pitoni. As was customary when a maestro di cappella became too old, the chapter of the basilica gave him a maestro coadiutore in 1749. This post was taken by Niccolo Jommelli from 1749 to 1752, then by Giovanni Battista Costanzi (1704-1778), who succeeded him as maestro di cappella of the Cappella Giulia at his death in 1755.

A recent purchase is this recording by the French ensemble A Sei Voci:


To be frank, when I put this recording on my response was initially rather indifferent... This recording is the familiar concept of a vespers assembled from various works by a composer. Since this limited the choice in music to pieces eligible to be included in such proceedings, it turns out not always to be Bencini's best with the inclusion of some early works. The recording starts with some rather run-of-the-mill stuff.... hence my initial impression. Things pick up considerably from track 4 onwards, some of the psalms are quite pretty and cleverly written. To aid things further, performances are generally excellent.
So, a mixed bag per definition, but there are some really nice pieces on here in good performances. Still, any comparison with musical genius Alessandro Scarlatti, as is attempted in the booklet is out of place - these composers are surely not in tbe same league.

Recommended for those with a more extensive Italian Baroque collection that are looking for variety,  but in terms of priority not on top of the list....

There is another disc by A Sei Voci of the same composer that seems to have gathered more positive reviews in the past:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/038/MI0001038662.jpg)

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/nov00/bencini.htm

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-5639/

It definitely interests me, anyone knows it?  :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: JCBuckley on January 29, 2016, 04:31:51 AM

There is another disc by A Sei Voci of the same composer that seems to have gathered more positive reviews in the past:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/038/MI0001038662.jpg)


It definitely interests me, anyone knows it?  :)

Q

I don't know this recording, but I do have a fine performance of the Bencini Magnificat, recorded by Rinaldo Alessandrini about five years back - it's on the CD titled Per La Vergine Maria. Have you heard that one?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on January 29, 2016, 05:25:05 AM
I don't know this recording, but I do have a fine performance of the Bencini Magnificat, recorded by Rinaldo Alessandrini about five years back - it's on the CD titled Per La Vergine Maria. Have you heard that one?

Haven't heard it, but I do know which disc you mean:  :)


Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on February 22, 2016, 07:45:06 AM
Last night, two splendid Early Baroque CDs.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KaMr5P_eEn0/T0PD2pJ7Q4I/AAAAAAAAZFs/q62VMLjcyco/s1600/oceanic+portada.PNG)

This is something of a curiosity: the re-creation (musically only, for obvious reasons) of a dancing and singing masquerade (festa a ballo) that was performed in Naples, March 1, 1620. Let me quote the full original title of the printed edition, to give you an idea about the whole thing, together with its political (sic!) implications.

A SHORT ACCOUNT OF
THE
ENTERTAINMENT WITH DANCES
Performed in Naples to celebrate the return to
health of His Catholic Majesty
PHILIP III OF AUSTRIA
King of the Spains
in the presence of His Illustrious and Most
Serene Highness the Duke of Osuna, Viceroy
of the Kingdom, in the Great Hall of the Palace
on the 1st of March, 1620

To cut a long story short, don Pedro Giron, Duke of Osuna, Viceroy of Naples, mounted this magnificent and ostentatious performance in order to ingratiate himself with the King, who was not very happy about the Duke´s military actions against Venice (probably in alliance with the Turks) and his instigating a conspiracy in Venice itself. Not out of love for the bitterly complaining Venetians, of course, but out of fear that the Duke´s growing power, influence and priivate army might have tempted him to independence. The result of the lavishing hosanna was not as expected, for in June 1620 Cardinal Borgia arrived from Rome to replace him as Viceroy. Pedro Giron returned to Madrid to plead his innocence but was soon thrown in jail where he died 4 years later.

(Now, this political cabal so typical of its time might in itself have been the subject of an opera.)

Surprisingly, most of the music for the numbers performed survived in the form of a print edition, making thus possible a musical reconstruction of the masquerade.

The music (which is the work of several composers, the most famous being Giovanni Maria Trabacci) is superb: danceful and tuneful instrumental numbers, with infectious and often irregular rythms, alternate with melodious and highly cantabile vocal sequences, making for an extremely pleasurable listening.

The performance is as magnificent as the original must have been. The forces employed are impressive, spanning the whole range of Rennaissance instruments, from violins & viols to shawms & crumhorns to tambourines & sidedrums and everything in between, as well as a vocal ensemble consisting of 2S, 1A, 2T, 1B. The sound is crystal clear, bright and luminous.

The result is one of the most beautifully interpreted and recorded CDs I ever heard.

Then I played this one:



The title is taken from the first piece on the disc: a Capriccio stravagante by Carlo Farina which is indeed extravagant and then some. In terms of quirkiness and moodiness he could have taught CPE Bach a thing or two and there is a brief sequence which, if taken out of context, could have been written by Xenakis no less. The end is surprisingly quiet and subdued, marking one of the strangest but most interesting and enjoyable Baroque pieces I ever listened to.

The mood is thus set for the whole disc (volume one of two, actually): Italian instrumental music from about 1620 (coincidentally contemporaneous with the festa a ballo I have just commented upon) with a clear and present sense of extravagance and virtuosity. Needless to say, the most daring such works on this CD are by Biaggio Marini and Dario Castello, who were a sort of avant-garde of their time. An unknown (for me) Giovanni Picchi delivers a really strange Canzon decima nona a doi chori which juxtaposes in the Gabrieli manner strings and winds, creating a vivid tension between the two groups, as if they are competing for supremacy (an allusion to the then ongoing battle between the old style and the nascent Baroque, perhaps?). Pieces by Frescobaldi, Michelangelo Rossi, Buonamente, Turini, Vitali and Merula, though none as extremely and wildly extravagant as those I mentioned, complete this most charming CD. Excellent performance from The Purcell Quartet and His Majesty´s Sackbutts and Cornets, recorded in very good sonics.

(I can hardly wait for the coming night to listen to the second volume.)

Two winners I heartily recommend to any Early Baroque afficionado.

EDIT: Very informative liner notes on both, with full Italian texts and English translations in the first case.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on February 23, 2016, 02:13:31 AM
.


Cappricio Stravagante, volume two.

This is a sort of a letdown, honestly. Not because the quality of music and musicmaking is anything less than in the first volume, not at all. It´s just that there is very little of that wild, exhilarating and even frenzied extravagance which was indeed to be found in the preceding disc. Compared to that, the music presented here is tame and subdued. But at the end of the day this is not such a bad thing, actually, because it makes a good contrast to the first volume. If I were to single out the piece that I found most appealling, it would be an exquisite Sonata sopra l'aria di Ruggiero by Salamone Rossi.

I recommend this as heartily as I recommended the first volume.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 09, 2016, 02:05:43 PM
Interesting note by Fabio Falcone, really a plea for funding for his Andrea Antico CD, but I enjoyed reading it. I think Fabio Falcone is a really good harpsichord player in his recording of Gesualdo-inspired music on Brilliant (I'm less interested in the music on the Andrea Antico disc.) 

http://www.kisskissbankbank.com/antico-and-cavazzoni-s-keyboard-works

(Could we change the title of the thread to make it cover early Italian music like this? )
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 26, 2016, 06:37:40 AM
I'd like some comments on available recordings of the Tenebrae Responsoria, or rather the Responsoria et alia ad Officium Hebdomadae Sanctae spectantia (1611), written by the (in)famous Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa.  :)

I am looking for an up-to-date idiomatic reading. Some recordings I am considering:


Any comments would be welcome! :)
It seems the complete set fills two discs, the 3CD Glossa issue adds Madrigals by other composers... The Stradivarius and Brilliant issues are on one disc, haven't figured the details on that yet....

Q


PS
Quote
Johan van Veen:
As I have indicated I am very happy with the recordings by Herreweghe and La Compagnia del Madrigale. Fortunately I don't have to choose, and if you can afford to purchase both recordings, don't hesitate. If not, it is probably a matter of taste. Hopefully my reviews will help you to get a good impression of what to expect. The additional music in this production could be a factor in its favour, but in regard to interpretation you can't go wrong with either of them. 

His review of the recording by La Compagnia del Madrigale: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Glossa_GCD922803.html

His review of the recording by Herreweghe: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Gesualdo_Victoria_Herreweghe_Short.html
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on March 26, 2016, 07:40:16 AM
I'd like some comments on available recordings of the Tenebrae Responsoria, or rather the Responsoria et alia ad Officium Hebdomadae Sanctae spectantia (1611), written by the (in)famous Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa.  :)

I am looking for an up-to-date idiomatic reading.

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00PFAX6V0.01.L.jpg)

Q

The only comment that I can make is that I have put the one above on my List immediately solely based on the collection of Josquin CDs that I have sung by A Sei Voci  :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 26, 2016, 07:47:22 AM
The only comment that I can make is that I have put the one above on my List immediately solely based on the collection of Josquin CDs that I have sung by A Sei Voci  :)

That's exactly the reason why I preselected it!  :) I admire their Desprez recordings as well.

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: HIPster on March 26, 2016, 09:53:30 AM
.



Hi Q,

Thanks for listing these!

The 3 CD set by La Compagnia Del Madrigale interests me very much.  It has been on my wishlist since its release.

However, I was unaware of De Labyrintho's recording!  As you are aware, I am a fan of their Josquin recording and feel they will do very well with Gesualdo's Responsoria.

I just ordered their recording.   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on March 27, 2016, 03:10:01 AM
I'd like some comments on available recordings of the Tenebrae Responsoria, or rather the Responsoria et alia ad Officium Hebdomadae Sanctae spectantia (1611), written by the (in)famous Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa.  :)

I am looking for an up-to-date idiomatic reading.

You have to decide whether you want a liturgical setting, whether you'll respond positively to the viol pieces in the Labyrintho CD, or whether you just want all the responsoria one after the other bish bash bosh bob's your uncle à la Hilliard. And whether you want very small scale introverted, or something more flamboyant.

I have heard all the recordings you listed, and I'm still not clear about this music at all.

One thing I can do, when you finally join the 21st century and learn to download, is let you have a tremendous live recording directed by Herreweghe from Alderburgh a couple of years ago. It's better than his CD IMO.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on May 07, 2016, 03:29:48 AM
I had come across Lydia Maria Blank before through a recording of Spanish music, misleadingly called Folias (misleading because it's not just stuffed with La Folia music.) It contains the most humane performances of music by Cabanilles I've ever heard.

Recently I got hold of this recording (Presto download), and I am deeply impressed. I find the interpretation extremely brilliant and exciting, stressing the ecstatic elements in the music. And a marvellous sounding harpsichord.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on June 11, 2016, 02:21:37 AM
This recording has all the makings of a truly great one:


Two excellent choral works in period performanes by a composer that deservedly is being explored more and more. And alternating these with two inventive sinfonias actually works wonderfully well..... Add to that really impressive singing - by the chorus but also the superb soloists in both works. The instrumental accompaniment is judicious and elegantly phrased. The recording is airy and has clarity.

But...I should have known with Early Music veteran René Clemencic at the helm.....(Diego Fasolis is choir master) everything moves at a snail's pace in an overly reverential atmosphere. In the Missa Dolorosa slightly less so than in the Stabat Mater. Any self respecting Italian HIP conductor would have more passion into the music!  :D Fasolis would have done this better on his own...

If this were Amazon: four stars because it is so close to perfection....but no cigar.... 8)
On account of the quality of the music and the gorgeous singing: recommended nonetheless.... :)
And Clemencic still easily beats Hengelbrock in the Missa Dolorosa...

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on June 11, 2016, 07:16:53 AM
This recording has all the makings of a truly great one:




OK, I have a small collection [3 CDs] of the music of Caldara and anything that I have heard of his I have liked. Therefore, I have put this one on the Wish List  :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on September 11, 2016, 02:28:02 AM
My morning listening:


Getting more Palestrina is still on my to do list....
Palestrina has been popular amongst British ensembles, but that's not my cup of tea...
Which currently brings down the number of eligible candidates considerably.
There is a real need for more excellent Italian Renaissance choral ensembles, like De Labyrintho, to fill the gaps here...
As in Baroque, the Italian are late to the party....but are bound to make a impressive entrance

Q

I have always liked the music of Palestrina since I first heard it a long time ago. I have recordings by many of the British ensembles that you refer to above. I will watch this space with interest to see if you do come up with some new recordings by an Italian ensemble. That would certainly be a very interesting listen.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on September 11, 2016, 06:23:55 AM
Concerto Italiano has a madrigal recording.  Originally on the Tactus label, this one has been reissued as a part of that label's white series:



And on Brilliant:



Gio review!  ;)

I am all for De Labyrintho releasing some Palestrina too!  :)

That is a good start for me; I will check that one out  8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 12, 2016, 07:17:52 AM


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/079/MI0001079084.jpg)

A muscular and colourful harpsichord used with great skill by Fabio Bonizzoni to make Bernardo Storace's subtle variations accumulate in intensity, the result is hypnotic in a minimalist way.

How good is Storace? Not as good as Frescobaldi? Better than Pasquini? I just bought Alessandrini's recording dedicated to him: there's a Storaci Ricercar in 150 Years of Italian Music which is really impressive.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on October 12, 2016, 10:54:08 AM
(http://img2.douban.com/lpic/s2354040.jpg)

Time to revive this all too little thread with a mixed disc with harpsichord and organ pieces by the elusive Bernardo Storace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Storace), played by Fabio Bonizzoni. Little is known about Storace who was Maestro di Capella at Messina, Sicily.

I did not pay sufficient attention to this disc first time around, it sounded OK but my interest wasn't really triggered. Probably a quick listen during breakfast before rushing off to work is not ideal for attentive listening! ;D Because this is interesting stuff, provided that you're into "earlier" Italian Baroque keyboard music. I am. 8) I would position Storace as a successor to Frescobaldi, the same structured, reflective music in a formal style but with quite more forward looking features added - denser, more virtuosic, rhythmically dynamic and expressive. Glimpses of the keyboard music by the Neapolitan School are clearly present. The organ music is a bit more conservative but very fine and it is the authentic characterfull sounds of the Sicilian organ that does it.

Great, expressive playing by Fabio Bonizzoni, who was a pupil of Ton Koopman, something which is not immediately noticeable, probably because of a difference in (musical) personality. Yet on the organ he does pay, like Koopman, a lot of attention to proper articulation. Maybe I wouldn't have minded slightly less hesitations in some of the slower keyboard pieces. Beautiful instruments that are beautifully recorded - a harpsichord by Nikolaus Damm after Trasuntino and the organ of the Chiesa della SS.Trinità in Petralia Sottana, Sicily, built in 1751.

Maybe not indespendable but an issue of clear interest to those into keyboard and organ music of this period.

Q

My own little write up of six years ago...

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 12, 2016, 08:46:13 PM
My own little write up of six years ago...

Q

Yes, that looks very fair. I think it's the best thing I've heard from Bonizzoni in fact. Cera is totally different, different articulation and different sounds from a different style of instrument and, of course, less speed. Incomparable.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on October 13, 2016, 09:57:07 PM
I also quite enjoyed this disc by Bonizzoni with composers from the Ventian School:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91k404acitL.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Picchi-Scuola-Veneziana-Annibale-Padovano/dp/B00004YUB2/

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 18, 2016, 10:09:20 PM



(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/079/MI0001079084.jpg)   (http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/TC601902.gif)   (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_250/MI0000/986/MI0000986818.jpg)



Quote from: Wikipedia
As an aesthetic, it is marked by a non-narrative, non-teleological, and non-representational conception of a work in progress, and represents a new approach to the activity of listening to music by focusing on the internal processes of the music, which lack goals or motion toward those goals.[7] Prominent features of the technique include consonant harmony, steady pulse (if not immobile drones), stasis or gradual transformation, and often reiteration of musical phrases or smaller units such as figures, motifs, and cells

The above definition of minimalism suggests that Storace's Pastorale is the earliest piece of minimalist music. A simple short motif repeated with small variation and without goal over a pedal point, without aim. It is long - about 10 minutes.

It's a tremendous piece of music, which in some sense makes me think of the Bach violin chaconne and Beethoven's Grosse Fugue.

I have three recordings of the whole the thing, Cera, Alessandrini and Bonizzoni. Cera uses organ and percussion, while Bonizzoni and Alessandrini use just the organ. Alessandrini (in 150 years of Italian Music, I haven't heard his Storace CD yet, it's on the way hopefully) is somehow the most avant garde modern sounding; the percussion on Cera's makes for an attractive crazy dance feeling; Bonizzoni's is IMO the least successful of the three, but is nevertheless interesting because of the soaring intensity of the playing in the central section. All three are wonderful.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Jo498 on February 14, 2017, 01:26:47 PM
I picked this up for EUR 3 or so from jpc. Never heard of the composer Della Ciaja (he is mentioned a handful of times in the forum, though) but this is very entertaining music, an odd mix between the 17th century italian masters, Handel and D. Scarlatti, well played and nicely recorded.


Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on August 03, 2017, 09:05:33 PM
(https://e.snmc.io/lk/l/l/8c7e276f34e40bc7646d75a6b63b66d6/1801775.jpg)       (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Oct13/Gesualdo_tribulationem_ZZT319.jpg)

I'm now convinced, by these two recordings, that Mayone is the major  figure of the avant garde in Gesualdo's court, apart from Gesualdo himself of course.

Are there any books on Gesualdo's influence and art? Neapolitan renaissance music generally?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 03, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
(https://e.snmc.io/lk/l/l/8c7e276f34e40bc7646d75a6b63b66d6/1801775.jpg)

I'm now convinced, by these two recordings, that Mayone is the major  figure of the avant garde in Gesualdo's court, apart from Gesualdo himself of course.

Oh wow, would love to get my hands on that recording!  ???  Which has been on my wishlist for ever...

Though I would also settle for a brand new recording by the likes of Marcon, Alessandrini or Molardi..... :D

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on August 03, 2017, 11:14:30 PM
Oh wow, would love to get my hands on that recording!  ???  Which has been on my wishlist for ever...




I got mine easily from eBay years ago, and I just saw there's one for sale from there now, in the Netherlands to boot!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CD-CHRISTOPHER-STEMBRIDGE-ascanio-mayone-2CD-NEAR-MINT-RARE1992-/132269977326?hash=item1ecbe7aeee:g:NZoAAOSwcrxZc3Ww

(Listening to it again I was really impressed by Stembridge as a harpsichord player -  I had a similar experience when I went back to his Frescobaldi a couple of weeks ago. He's very good at fantastic style on harpsichord, a great variety of touch and a sense of flamboyance. If anything the Mayone is even more impressive than the Frescobaldi, maybe.)


Though I would also settle for a brand new recording by the likes of Marcon, Alessandrini or Molardi..... :D

Q

I'd give up all of those for a recording by Vartolo  :P


By the way the disc with Aymes is good because it's got harp! Angels play harp! And it's gentle, lyrical. A different point of view.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 03, 2017, 11:22:00 PM
I got mine easily from eBay years ago, and I just saw there's one for sale from there now, in the Netherlands to boot!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CD-CHRISTOPHER-STEMBRIDGE-ascanio-mayone-2CD-NEAR-MINT-RARE1992-/132269977326?hash=item1ecbe7aeee:g:NZoAAOSwcrxZc3Ww

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on August 04, 2017, 12:53:02 AM
I have these

(http://www.tactus.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/571301.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71v1t142nHL._SY355_.jpg)

of which I listened only to the 1st disc and it bored me into sleep. Endless ornamentation and chords without any fully developed musical idea; not a single theme, let alone melody, to catch my attention even for a brief moment --- and mostly slow, dirge-ish tempi. Is this music supposed to be, and sound, exactly like that? Truth is, Renaissance keyboard music is a hard nut for me (I've had similar experiences with Frescobaldi and Cabezon).

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on August 04, 2017, 01:23:42 AM
I had the 1st disc by Tasini, and it bored me to sleep as well... If that is any consolation... :D

Your previous post reminded me to try another one, from a performer that hasn't let me down before:


Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on August 04, 2017, 04:24:37 AM
I have these

(http://www.tactus.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/571301.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71v1t142nHL._SY355_.jpg)

of which I listened only to the 1st disc and it bored me into sleep. Endless ornamentation and chords without any fully developed musical idea; not a single theme, let alone melody, to catch my attention even for a brief moment --- and mostly slow, dirge-ish tempi. Is this music supposed to be, and sound, exactly like that? Truth is, Renaissance keyboard music is a hard nut for me (I've had similar experiences with Frescobaldi and Cabezon).

Well before you give up completely I'd say you should try that Aymes recording, the approach to Maione may well appeal to a romantic temperament like your good self. And the idea of interleaving them with the heady Gesualdo is a good one. If it does appeal let me know and I'll try to think of some Frescobaldi and Cabezon in a similar vein.

( though if you really didn't like Varolo's Frescobaldi Capriccii you're probably a hopeless case  :))
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on August 04, 2017, 04:34:24 AM
Well before you give up completely I'd say you should try that Aymes recording, the approach to Maione may well appeal to a romantic temperament like your good self. And the idea of interleaving them with the heady Gesualdo is a good one. If it does appeal let me know and I'll try to think of some Frescobaldi and Cabezon in a similar vein.


Thanks for the tip.

Quote
( though if you really didn't like Varolo's Frescobaldi Capriccii you're probably a hopeless case  :))

Something from the Loreggian Brilliant box, actually.

I'll try Vartolo, too. I don't want to give up for good, at least not for the time being.  :)

I do like Frescobaldi's Canzonas, much more appealing and interesting.  8)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on August 04, 2017, 04:41:05 AM
Re melody, the music doesn't work by by hooking you with a tune like Schubert or Mozart or something, there are melodies, but they're not hooks. The motifs they use are developed, often rhythmically, and that, for me, can make a satisfying music experience. And there are often interesting harmonic things which go on, but it has to be on the right instrument, tuned right and voiced imaginatively. But I think that for me,  the music doesn't hook you in with a memorable appealing melody or a foot-tapping rhythm. I know Frescobaldi'a toccatas well, but I can't hum one from memory. I hardly know Mahler, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Schubert and Beethoven  at all, but I reckon I could hum my way through every symphony.


I want to type that the music is more cerebral than C 18th and C 19th - but I may not be being fair to later composers.

So I won't type it.  ;)

Tempo is a big issue in early music, and it's true that the tempos they choose are sometimes slower than you get in high baroque. Again, I think the music is often supposed to be  subtly and richly expressive and meditative and inward looking, rather than a jolly romp like a Corelli concerto or a Scarlatti sonata. (I'm not a great appreciator of late baroque!)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on August 04, 2017, 04:52:32 AM
Re melody, the music doesn't work by by hooking you with a tune like Schubert or Mozart or something, there are melodies, but they're not hooks. The motifs they use are developed, often rhythmically, and that, for me, can make a satisfying music experience. And there are often interesting harmonic things which go on, but it has to be on the right instrument, tuned right and voiced imaginatively. But I think that for me,  the music doesn't hook you in with a memorable appealing melody or a foot-tapping rhythm.

I want to type that the music is more cerebral than C 18th and C 19th - but I may not be being fair to later composers.

So I won't type it.  ;)

Tempo is a big issue in early music, and it's true that the tempos they choose are sometimes slower than you get in high baroque. Again, I think the music is often supposed to be and very subtly and richly expressive and meditative and inward looking, rather than a jolly romp like a Corelli concerto or a Scarlatti sonata. (I'm not a great appreciator of late baroque!)

Interesting points, thank you.

I'm rather emotional than cerebral and I am definitely not into intellectual games, let alone when it comes to art, so this music (Renaissance keyboard --- I don't have any problems with vocal and instrumental works) might simply be not for me.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on August 04, 2017, 04:58:31 AM

Just one other thing about Aymes which I just noticed, I'm listening as I'm doing this, is that the some of the pieces seem to be arranged for clavioganum and harp, and this brings out the emotional melodic content very well.

You can see I'm really enjoying it! ill probably play it again in a month and wonder what all the fuss was about!

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on August 04, 2017, 05:13:39 AM
You can see I'm really enjoying it!

And I'm glad for you, honestly!

I might actually have a problem with the harpsichord itself. Although I can tolerate it for fairly extended periods of time in the repertoire which appeals to me, I vastly prefer the piano.  :D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on August 04, 2017, 08:04:18 PM


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/079/MI0001079084.jpg)   (http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/TC601902.gif)   (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_250/MI0000/986/MI0000986818.jpg)



The above definition of minimalism suggests that Storace's Pastorale is the earliest piece of minimalist music. A simple short motif repeated with small variation and without goal over a pedal point, without aim. It is long - about 10 minutes.

It's a tremendous piece of music, which in some sense makes me think of the Bach violin chaconne and Beethoven's Grosse Fugue.

I have three recordings of the whole the thing, Cera, Alessandrini and Bonizzoni. Cera uses organ and percussion, while Bonizzoni and Alessandrini use just the organ. Alessandrini (in 150 years of Italian Music, I haven't heard his Storace CD yet, it's on the way hopefully) is somehow the most avant garde modern sounding; the percussion on Cera's makes for an attractive crazy dance feeling; Bonizzoni's is IMO the least successful of the three, but is nevertheless interesting because of the soaring intensity of the playing in the central section. All three are wonderful.

Just listened to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XToncb7-1gs
Interesting little piece. I think it is much like the Scarlatti Sonata recently in the blind comparison, but taken to its logical conclusion. In some way, I feel this is more the birth of the Galant than of Minimalism.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on October 02, 2017, 01:50:14 AM
(Crosspost from the WAYLT thread.)

(https://sentireascoltare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/disc_5493.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41V6MtZWTML.jpg)

Hat tip to Mandryka!

If you like what he does there you'll like Francesco Tristano Schlime's Frescobaldi recording, which has a similar feeling of a stoned jazz pianist in a club in the early hours of the morning.

Well, this is not very far off the mark, given that the recording was made in a Paris night club, live. Yes, that's right --- and the audience is possibly the most well-behaved I've ever witnessed on disc: not a cough, not a whisper, nothing. It's as if they were all mesmerized by the music to the point of forgetting themselves. And fascinating the music is, indeed. The sound of the piano (blessed be your soul, signor Cristofori!) turns the whole thing into a poetical and ecstatic, even mystical, experience. I struggle rather hard with Italian Renaissance keyboard music but this disc was right up my alley. I wish more pianists threw off the shackles, and rejected the monopoly, that the ideological HIP brigade have put on and assumed of, early keyboard music performance: Schlime proves convincingly that a pianist with imagination, sensitivity and commitment can work wonders in this repertoire.

Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 02, 2017, 03:35:01 AM
It's good you found a way in to this music! I think you may also enjoy Daniel-Ben Pienaar's Gibbons, it's not as laid pack as Schlimé's Frescobaldi, but it has a similar feel of spontaneous outpouring.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on October 11, 2017, 03:23:33 AM
(Crosspost from the WAYLT thread.)

(https://sentireascoltare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/disc_5493.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41V6MtZWTML.jpg)

Hat tip to Mandryka!

Well, this is not very far off the mark, given that the recording was made in a Paris night club, live. Yes, that's right --- and the audience is possibly the most well-behaved I've ever witnessed on disc: not a cough, not a whisper, nothing. It's as if they were all mesmerized by the music to the point of forgetting themselves. And fascinating the music is, indeed. The sound of the piano (blessed be your soul, signor Cristofori!) turns the whole thing into a poetical and ecstatic, even mystical, experience. I struggle rather hard with Italian Renaissance keyboard music but this disc was right up my alley. I wish more pianists threw off the shackles, and rejected the monopoly, that the ideological HIP brigade have put on and assumed of, early keyboard music performance: Schlime proves convincingly that a pianist with imagination, sensitivity and commitment can work wonders in this repertoire.

Highly recommended.
Sadly, impossible to find for download. Looks fascinating. So few pianists willing. David Greilsammer has a Frescobaldi track on piano - a paltry find.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on October 11, 2017, 04:01:32 AM
Yes, that looks very fair. I think it's the best thing I've heard from Bonizzoni in fact. Cera is totally different, different articulation and different sounds from a different style of instrument and, of course, less speed. Incomparable.
Do you recommend the Cera? I notice it's the only one for available for download...20$ so I'll wait 'til next month. I'm interested in this. I wish I could get into English music as much as Italian from this period. I used to think Italian renaissance music was severe. Maybe it's the compulsive in me as Frescobaldi seems like everything is packaged in neat little boxes. 
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 11, 2017, 06:40:10 AM
Do you recommend the Cera? I notice it's the only one for available for download...20$ so I'll wait 'til next month. I'm interested in this. I wish I could get into English music as much as Italian from this period. I used to think Italian renaissance music was severe. Maybe it's the compulsive in me as Frescobaldi seems like everything is packaged in neat little boxes.

I think Alessandrini's CD is downloadable too, as is Jorge Halubek and and Pascal Rouet and Naoko Akutagawa. I can't make a recommendation about Storace, I don't feel close enough to the music. I have enjoyed Alessandrini most, but nothing follows.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on October 11, 2017, 04:23:26 PM
(Crosspost from the WAYLT thread.)

(https://sentireascoltare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/disc_5493.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41V6MtZWTML.jpg)

Hat tip to Mandryka!

Well, this is not very far off the mark, given that the recording was made in a Paris night club, live. Yes, that's right --- and the audience is possibly the most well-behaved I've ever witnessed on disc: not a cough, not a whisper, nothing. It's as if they were all mesmerized by the music to the point of forgetting themselves. And fascinating the music is, indeed. The sound of the piano (blessed be your soul, signor Cristofori!) turns the whole thing into a poetical and ecstatic, even mystical, experience. I struggle rather hard with Italian Renaissance keyboard music but this disc was right up my alley. I wish more pianists threw off the shackles, and rejected the monopoly, that the ideological HIP brigade have put on and assumed of, early keyboard music performance: Schlime proves convincingly that a pianist with imagination, sensitivity and commitment can work wonders in this repertoire.

Highly recommended.
Yeah, this is awesome stuff. I can't stop listening to it. It seems almost avant garde to me. I used to find this music uninteresting because it never really goes anywhere. But now it's such a, sort of, mysterious experience. What imagination in this performance. I'm going to play this to a friend today and ask him, "what kind of music is this? When do you think it was written?"
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on October 13, 2017, 10:38:26 PM
Trabaci played on an Italian virginal (ok, I didn't know there was such a thing) by one Shusuke Sugimoto (who?). Now, this is the kind of thing that excites me on a Saturday afternoon.
https://www.youtube.com/v/eEfIDkQO6bM
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on October 14, 2017, 04:04:20 AM
Trabaci played on an Italian virginal (ok, I didn't know there was such a thing) by one Shusuke Sugimoto (who?). Now, this is the kind of thing that excites me on a Saturday afternoon.
https://www.youtube.com/v/eEfIDkQO6bM

Maybe you should buy yourself this CD

(http://studio-xvii-augsburg.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Website-9650212012017_0000.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on October 14, 2017, 04:28:37 AM
Maybe you should buy yourself this CD

(http://studio-xvii-augsburg.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Website-9650212012017_0000.jpg)
I will take a look for it. Lately, this kind of music is always going in my apartment.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on October 15, 2017, 02:15:52 AM
Sorry to this thread...but...could you clear it again?

I just did.  :)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 13, 2017, 03:58:54 AM
Re melody, the music doesn't work by by hooking you with a tune like Schubert or Mozart or something, there are melodies, but they're not hooks. The motifs they use are developed, often rhythmically, and that, for me, can make a satisfying music experience. And there are often interesting harmonic things which go on, but it has to be on the right instrument, tuned right and voiced imaginatively. But I think that for me,  the music doesn't hook you in with a memorable appealing melody or a foot-tapping rhythm. I know Frescobaldi'a toccatas well, but I can't hum one from memory. I hardly know Mahler, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Schubert and Beethoven  at all, but I reckon I could hum my way through every symphony.


I want to type that the music is more cerebral than C 18th and C 19th - but I may not be being fair to later composers.

So I won't type it.  ;)

Tempo is a big issue in early music, and it's true that the tempos they choose are sometimes slower than you get in high baroque. Again, I think the music is often supposed to be  subtly and richly expressive and meditative and inward looking, rather than a jolly romp like a Corelli concerto or a Scarlatti sonata. (I'm not a great appreciator of late baroque!)
This kind of music is addictive. I just have Vartolo for the organ. I like the fantasies. And the pedal droning stuff in B2. Seems like this music has more in common with contemporary music or even Debussy than the stuff in between. The more I like this music the less patience I have for the hysterics of romanticism or the puff of galant. Well, that's how I feel lately. I'm curious if people like anything in this genre as much as Frescobaldi? I mean this moody, flat, somber and serious (Italian?) music.   
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2017, 08:03:09 AM
This kind of music is addictive. I just have Vartolo for the organ. I like the fantasies. And the pedal droning stuff in B2. Seems like this music has more in common with contemporary music or even Debussy than the stuff in between. The more I like this music the less patience I have for the hysterics of romanticism or the puff of galant. Well, that's how I feel lately. I'm curious if people like anything in this genre as much as Frescobaldi? I mean this moody, flat, somber and serious (Italian?) music.   

Rinaldo Alessandrini recorded a CD of early pieces by Bernardo Pasquini. I know you may think that I'm going mad by mentioning Pasquini, but I assure you that Alessandrini's selection is a music  totally  different from  his later bravura  style. What it shows is a Pasquini who is a bit in the vein of both Frescobaldi and Louis Couperin. I have a strong intuition you will like it.

Have you heard anything by Andrea Gabrieli? (Glen Wilson's is the only recommendable dedicated CD IMO,  similarly for Cavazzoni.)

Alessandrini recorded an anthology called 150 years of Italian Music, or something like that, I don't think you'd regret hearing it.

Sergio Vartolo recorded an anthology CD at Lanvellec called Preludes à la Fugue, with music by the Gabrielis, Trabaci and others. I like everything about it.

A more left field recommendation is Irena de Ruvo's recording of Giovanni Battista Dalla Gostena transcriptions - certainly if you enjoy Gesualdo.

I would need to listen again to Luzzaschi and Willaert to comment with any confidence, there could be interesting things in there. I know I enjoy Messori's Luzzaschi more and more each time I hear it, and performances of Willaert less and less. Trabaci is also someone to explore - but I can't think now . . .
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on November 13, 2017, 12:31:40 PM
Rinaldo Alessandrini recorded a CD of early pieces by Bernardo Pasquini. I know you may think that I'm going mad by mentioning Pasquini, but I assure you that Alessandrini's selection is a music  totally  different from  his later bravura  style. What it shows is a Pasquini who is a bit in the vein of both Frescobaldi and Louis Couperin.

I take you at your word and have just ordered it from an Amazon MP seller.

Alessandrini's later bravura style, what do you precisely think of?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
I take you at your word and have just ordered it from an Amazon MP seller.

Alessandrini's later bravura style, what do you precisely think of?

I meant Pasquini's later bravura style!  In fact I probably shouldn't say this with confidence because I'm not sure whether Pasquini's music is really datable, but the pieces Alessandrini chose for his recording do seem to be in a style which looks back,  as it were, and so I'm kind of guessing that they're earlier.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on November 13, 2017, 12:56:20 PM
I meant Pasquini's later bravura style!  In fact I probably shouldn't say this with confidence because I'm not sure whether Pasquini's music is really datable, but the pieces Alessandrini chose for his recording do seem to be in a style which looks back,  as it were, and so I'm kind of guessing that they're earlier.

Bernardo Pasquini (1637 -1710). The cover of Alessandrini's recording reads :
Sonate per gravicembalo 1702, which seems to be a relatively late date in Pasquini's life.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2017, 01:17:40 PM
Bernardo Pasquini (1637 -1710). The cover of Alessandrini's recording reads :
Sonate per gravicembalo 1702, which seems to be a relatively late date in Pasquini's life.

That's interesting, see what you think when you hear the music. The virtuoso music I was really thinking of was the two harpsichord sonatas which this thing I found on the web suggests  Attilio Cemonesi dates at 1704. But honestly I have no idea what these dates are referring to - autographs, publications, dates of compositions . . .

http://www.radioswissclassic.ch/it/banca-dati-musicale/musicista/27017be25c00b1ea965c8fc2b16099483e209/biography
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on November 13, 2017, 01:31:17 PM
That's interesting, see what you think when you hear the music. The virtuoso music I was really thinking of was the two harpsichord sonatas which this thing I found on the web suggests  Attilio Cemonesi dates at 1704. But honestly I have no idea what these dates are referring to - autographs, publications, dates of compositions . . .

http://www.radioswissclassic.ch/it/banca-dati-musicale/musicista/27017be25c00b1ea965c8fc2b16099483e209/biography

From this website:
La fonte principale della sua produzione tastieristica si trova in una fonte manoscritta in 4 volumi (conservata in parte a Berlino ed in parte a Londra) redatta dallo stesso compositore fra gli ultimi anni del Seicento ed i primi del Settecento.

Sonate a due cimbali - 1704, Attilio Cemonesi, Alessandro De Marchi, 1992, Symphonia SY91S06

Also it seems that it is the fourteen sonatas for two keyboards which are dated to 1704. I do not think that they represent bravura style, on the contrary I find them to be the most charming of his keyboard works. Note that they only are notated from Pasquini's hand as two basso parts, and that the performers - whatever the recording - have added the rest. So the bravura you think of may stem from the performers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9T20hRzKc
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 13, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
Rinaldo Alessandrini recorded a CD of early pieces by Bernardo Pasquini. I know you may think that I'm going mad by mentioning Pasquini, but I assure you that Alessandrini's selection is a music  totally  different from  his later bravura  style. What it shows is a Pasquini who is a bit in the vein of both Frescobaldi and Louis Couperin. I have a strong intuition you will like it.

Have you heard anything by Andrea Gabrieli? (Glen Wilson's is the only recommendable dedicated CD IMO,  similarly for Cavazzoni.)

Alessandrini recorded an anthology called 150 years of Italian Music, or something like that, I don't think you'd regret hearing it.

Sergio Vartolo recorded an anthology CD at Lanvellec called Preludes à la Fugue, with music by the Gabrielis, Trabaci and others. I like everything about it.

A more left field recommendation is Irena de Ruvo's recording of Giovanni Battista Dalla Gostena transcriptions - certainly if you enjoy Gesualdo.

I would need to listen again to Luzzaschi and Willaert to comment with any confidence, there could be interesting things in there. I know I enjoy Messori's Luzzaschi more and more each time I hear it, and performances of Willaert less and less. Trabaci is also someone to explore - but I can't think now . . .
Thanks. Lots to dig through here. Looks like Alessandrini has a few CDs of Italian music surveys. The Pasquini looks tempting.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 14, 2017, 08:27:32 AM
From this website:
La fonte principale della sua produzione tastieristica si trova in una fonte manoscritta in 4 volumi (conservata in parte a Berlino ed in parte a Londra) redatta dallo stesso compositore fra gli ultimi anni del Seicento ed i primi del Settecento.

Sonate a due cimbali - 1704, Attilio Cemonesi, Alessandro De Marchi, 1992, Symphonia SY91S06

Also it seems that it is the fourteen sonatas for two keyboards which are dated to 1704. I do not think that they represent bravura style, on the contrary I find them to be the most charming of his keyboard works. Note that they only are notated from Pasquini's hand as two basso parts, and that the performers - whatever the recording - have added the rest. So the bravura you think of may stem from the performers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9T20hRzKc

Well Cemonesi'a cd is called "Virtuoso harpsichord music". The way the sonatas are filled with keyboard effects makes me think of Domenico Scarlatti, which is why I think of them as forward looking; the material Alessandrini chose is a bit more expressive I think, more humane.

I've started to listen to some Trabaci, to the Canzone francese quarta from Bk 1 played by Vartolo in Naxos, it's very good music I think.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on November 14, 2017, 01:04:53 PM
Well Cemonesi'a cd is called "Virtuoso harpsichord music". The way the sonatas are filled with keyboard effects makes me think of Domenico Scarlatti, which is why I think of them as forward looking; the material Alessandrini chose is a bit more expressive I think, more humane.

I've started to listen to some Trabaci, to the Canzone francese quarta from Bk 1 played by Vartolo in Naxos, it's very good music I think.

This one;   ??

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8000996--pasquini-virtuoso-music-for-two-harpsichords
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 14, 2017, 01:44:17 PM
Yes. There's a Pasquini recording by Lydia Maria Blank which I've just ordered, she's very good I think, I've been enjoying her recording of Spanish music a lot.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 14, 2017, 11:49:27 PM
Yes. There's a Pasquini recording by Lydia Maria Blank which I've just ordered, she's very good I think, I've been enjoying her recording of Spanish music a lot.
What about Luca Guglielmi?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: king ubu on November 15, 2017, 01:11:42 AM
Inspired by this thread I just ordered an okay-priced (means: too expensive, but ...) copy of the Tristano Frescobaldi dics ... most curious about it!

Also got the two Storace discs by Francesco Cera and started listening in the meantime ... very good!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 15, 2017, 04:08:18 AM
Inspired by this thread I just ordered an okay-priced (means: too expensive, but ...) copy of the Tristano Frescobaldi dics ... most curious about it!

Also got the two Storace discs by Francesco Cera and started listening in the meantime ... very good!
I think I and others have said this before, but this field should be tackled by more pianists. I love the  Tristano Schlimé. It's fascinating to hear Fresobaldi in this other light. 
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on November 16, 2017, 05:09:49 AM
the hysterics of romanticism or the puff of galant.

What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2017, 08:57:18 AM
I think I and others have said this before, but this field should be tackled by more pianists. I love the  Tristano Schlimé. It's fascinating to hear Fresobaldi in this other light.

Konstantin Lifschitz recorded a handful of toccatas on his CD with Musical Offering.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2017, 01:44:24 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71kuZPp8SLL._SX425_.jpg)

This only arrived today, but it has left a strong impression of three things:

1. The softness and richness and naturalness of the harpsichord sound.

2. Her rich and elegant  ornamention in the suites,

3. Her very gentle way of marking the pulse.

This makes the music sound  freely expressive and fluid, less like it's been built in granite.

I particularly like the way Blank marks the upbeats so delicately.

In the booklet she talks a little about the date of the music, I get the impression from what she says that dates like 1702 are the dates of compilations of manuscripts, rather than the dates of the compositions. She also says that the music is only superficially French (she talks about how there're no sarabandes, for example) but that Pasquini is known to have travelled in France. She says that there is little in common between Frescobaldi's toccatas and Pasquini's (Pasquini's more improvisatory, she says.)   

I'm glad to have this CD.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: (: premont :) on November 16, 2017, 02:08:38 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71kuZPp8SLL._SX425_.jpg)

This only arrived today, but it has left a strong impression of three things:


Thanks for this review, based on which I shall acquire the CD.
I received Alessandrini's CD to day, but have not had the time to listen to it.
How would you (in short) describe the difference between Alessandrini and Blank?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 16, 2017, 05:05:26 PM
What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.
This is nothing more than my subjective feelings at the moment. I do listen to romantic music, and earlier post-baroque, regularly. I saw somewhere someone describe romantic music as a first-person narrative, and impressionism as “mood,” or a more removed sense. These are just metaphors though about how I feel about the music. I think Frescobaldi is also more about mood than the ups and downs of a passionate story. I’m sure this is just one way of seeing it and very general. 
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
Thanks for this review, based on which I shall acquire the CD.
I received Alessandrini's CD to day, but have not had the time to listen to it.
How would you (in short) describe the difference between Alessandrini and Blank?

Alessandrini's harpsichord sounds more muscular and, I think, is more closely recorded. His approach is more architectural, more articulated, less fluid and lyrical. And, by comparison with Blank, he marks the pulse more strongly.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2017, 10:22:31 PM
What do you mean by that, in the context of keyboard music? Some examples would be helpful.

An example of Italian baroque keyboard music which is full of romantic hysteria and classical puffiness, is the opus 4 sonatas of Azzolino Bernadino della Ciaja. You will love it.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on November 17, 2017, 02:35:03 AM
This is nothing more than my subjective feelings at the moment. I do listen to romantic music, and earlier post-baroque, regularly. I saw somewhere someone describe romantic music as a first-person narrative, and impressionism as “mood,” or a more removed sense. These are just metaphors though about how I feel about the music. I think Frescobaldi is also more about mood than the ups and downs of a passionate story. I’m sure this is just one way of seeing it and very general.

Thanks. I'm not sure I can fully agree, at least not with respect to piano music. I think that Kreisleriana or Annees de pelerinage, for instance, are as "mood" and "impressionist" as it gets. Actually, "a first-person narrative" recalls me rather the symphonies of Mahler than any Romantic piano music I can think of right now. As for "hysteria", the first things that come to my mind is the finale of the Appassionata and the screams and screeches of Pierrot Lunaire, neither of which strikes me as particularly romantic / Romantic.

An example of Italian baroque keyboard music which is full of romantic hysteria and classical puffiness, is the opus 4 sonatas of Azzolino Bernadino della Ciaja. You will love it.

Have them, listened to them, don't remember them. I'll revisit asap.

As I said, "hysteria" is probably the last thing that comes to my mind with respect to Romantic piano music; as for "puffiness", it's more an attribute of some Late Romantic orchestral music than anything Classical.

Be it as it may, I don't want to derail the thread. I'll report back on della Ciaja.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 17, 2017, 02:46:36 AM
Konstantin Lifschitz recorded a handful of toccatas on his CD with Musical Offering.
Thanks!!!!!! I just downloaded these. Excellent. This and the Tristano recordings are a great pleasure.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2017, 08:13:18 AM


Be it as it may, I don't want to derail the thread. I'll report back on della Ciaja.

I listened to some today, it's OK but less interesting than I'd remembered - intimations of CPE Bach in the strange harmonies and Scarlatti in the keyboard effects, the occasional lyrical quasi-operatic melodies. Not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mahlerian on November 17, 2017, 08:29:04 AM
Thanks. I'm not sure I can fully agree, at least not with respect to piano music. I think that Kreisleriana or Annees de pelerinage, for instance, are as "mood" and "impressionist" as it gets. Actually, "a first-person narrative" recalls me rather the symphonies of Mahler than any Romantic piano music I can think of right now. As for "hysteria", the first things that come to my mind is the finale of the Appassionata and the screams and screeches of Pierrot Lunaire, neither of which strikes me as particularly romantic / Romantic.

Pierrot is so drenched in irony and satire that it's bizarre to take "hysteria" away as a primary impression.  Erwartung is probably closer.  Or Kreisleriana, for that matter.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mirror Image on November 17, 2017, 08:36:45 AM
Pierrot is so drenched in irony and satire that it's bizarre to take "hysteria" away as a primary impression.  Erwartung is probably closer.  Or Kreisleriana, for that matter.

So what’s wrong with someone else that says Pierrot is hysterical if this is the impression that Andrei gets of the music?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mahlerian on November 17, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
So what’s wrong with someone else that says Pierrot is hysterical if this is the impression that Andrei gets of the music?

Nothing.  He's perfectly fine in saying that his impression is such and such.  I don't see the problem in my saying that I think that impression is off-base.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 17, 2017, 08:47:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/r-c7c6rmvA8
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mirror Image on November 17, 2017, 08:51:49 AM
Nothing.  He's perfectly fine in saying that his impression is such and such.  I don't see the problem in my saying that I think that impression is off-base.

Anytime someone has a negative reaction to Schoenberg or Mahler or any other composer you like, you feel the need to tell them that they’re basically wrong-headed for feeling the way they do. Your response to Andrei is a classic example of this.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mahlerian on November 17, 2017, 08:57:58 AM
Anytime someone has a negative reaction to Schoenberg or Mahler or any other composer you like, you feel the need to tell them that they’re basically wrong-headed for feeling the way they do. Your response to Andrei is a classic example of this.

He gave his own reasons for disagreeing with milk's opinion, I gave my reasons for disagreeing with his take.  Conversations depend on an exchange of views.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on November 17, 2017, 10:11:33 AM
Guys, guys, please, don't quarrel because of me. I didn't take offense at Mahlerian remark and I wouldn't have replied on the matter. Peace, friends!  0:)

I first heard Pierrot Lunaire on Mezzo TV. I had no idea what it was about (my German is not good enough without the printed text) but that's exactly the impression I got: a hysterical woman screaming and screeching. And given that that was also the last time I heard it, I had no opportunity to have second thoughts about it. That's all. I didn't mean "hysteric" as derogatory, just a neutral, value-free description.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on November 17, 2017, 10:53:44 AM
Ah, I see...  ::)

You guys are discussing Arnoldo Bellamontagna, the famous Italian Baroque composer!  :D

Can we stay on topic please? I'm baffled that members like Mirror Image even bother to read a thread like this BTW...  ;)

Baroque fans in the bud?  ;D

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mahlerian on November 17, 2017, 12:00:47 PM
Right, and I'm sorry that I played a role in the thread drift.  Getting back on topic, what do people who are more familiar with the music think of this disc?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51s0T96YuOL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 17, 2017, 12:01:41 PM
Right, and I'm sorry that I played a role in the thread drift.  Getting back on topic, what do people who are more familiar with the music think of this disc?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51s0T96YuOL._SX425_.jpg)

I think it is French
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2017, 12:05:04 PM
I think it is French

By nationality yes, but possibly not always by style.

what do people who are more familiar with the music think of this disc?


It's a masterpiece, but one that took me quite a while to appreciate because it's "abstract" -- expressive but controled. YOu have to hear it, I can't dance about architecture.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 17, 2017, 12:07:51 PM
By nationality yes, but possibly not always by style.

Definitely style, hard to think of a more characteristically French Baroque composer
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mahlerian on November 17, 2017, 12:08:08 PM
I think it is French

I still have a fever, I can make excuses for dumb lapses like that!

This topic had merged in my mind with an earlier discussion of keyboard music of that era generally, which is part of why I made the mistake.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: San Antone on November 17, 2017, 12:08:23 PM
I think it is French

 ;D
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
Definitely style, hard to think of a more characteristically French Baroque composer

Actually you're possibly right, I was somehow mixing up in my mind Louis Couperin and Froberger!  Though maybe those unmeasured preludes owe something to Frescobaldi toccatas.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 17, 2017, 05:42:55 PM
Guys, guys, please, don't quarrel because of me. I didn't take offense at Mahlerian remark and I wouldn't have replied on the matter. Peace, friends!  0:)

It's all an education to me. I wonder if a thread asking, "Do 'periods' of music exist? If so, what are the differences between them?" Maybe there already is a thread or maybe it's not interesting enough? Anyway...Barring personal attacks, I'm not offended by any of my friends here.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2017, 09:57:16 PM
Thanks!!!!!! I just downloaded these. Excellent. This and the Tristano recordings are a great pleasure.

Try also Giuseppe Andaloro's CD called Cruel Beauty.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 18, 2017, 12:47:54 AM
Try also Giuseppe Andaloro's CD called Cruel Beauty.
That looks like a good program...another one that's not easy t find for download. I don't know this pianist. Good?
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on November 18, 2017, 05:37:35 AM
That looks like a good program...another one that's not easy t find for download. ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GO3LRVS/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Spineur on November 18, 2017, 07:00:03 AM
The label Ricercar has edited some beautiful sets of

Music preceeding and around monteverdi times



The interpretations are IMHO of the highest standard.

An anthology of Cavalli music, I am listening to right now



Mezzo and sopranos: Mariana Flores et Anna Reinhold with the Cappella Mediterranea directed by Leonardo Garcia Alarcon.
One cannot stress enough the entrancing power of Cavalli’s music.

Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: king ubu on November 19, 2017, 01:33:29 AM
That Cavalli set is gorgeous!

Gave a first spin to Francesco Tristano's nightclub Frescobaldi late last night - thanks so much for the pointer, this will get quite a few more spins I reckon!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: milk on November 19, 2017, 03:24:01 AM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GO3LRVS/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp
Thanks!
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Mandryka on January 13, 2018, 05:59:01 AM
(https://s.mxmcdn.net/images-storage/albums4/8/7/5/1/1/4/33411578_350_350.jpg)

Tremendous old style grand manner harpsichord performances here from Luigi Tagliovini. Horrid harpsichord.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 28, 2018, 01:34:09 AM
Recent video from Catalina Vicens, playing the notorious Toccata by Giovanni Picchi from the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book on a contemporary harpsichord.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDd5UcLMo1I

I don't know how I feel about this performance. I've played this piece many of times, it's a crazy little piece with lots of running and crazy turns. She makes it into a leisurely stroll in the park, a bit too relaxed and graceful for my idea of the piece. Her style works in earlier Italian music, even Byrd, but I dunno about this piece. Of course, still marvelous playing.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on March 24, 2018, 06:21:01 AM
.


This recording gets a lot of praise - just have a look at the Amazon reviews... And the music is by Agostino Steffani (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agostino_Steffani) (1654 - 1728) definitely worth discovering.
But the performances miss the mark, at least to my taste.... ::)

I think to voice of Cecilia Bartoli, who deserves praise for championing the composer, has grown to heavy for this repertoire. Her quite present vibrato doesn’t help either, nor does her overly dramatic approach on the music. The rest of the performance falls into line with that: too heavy with too much of everything.... Too dramatic, overbearing choral singing which is too loud or too numerous  (or both). This doesn't sound like an Italian composer (based in Germany) who was a contemporary of Alessandro Scarlatti at all....
On the up side: the smaller pieces besides the Stabat Mater fare better and there is a great line up of soloists, though the effect is not as impressive as one would expect. The performances are very energetic.

On this rare occasion, I agree with the Gramophone reviewer:

Quote
The proclamation that Cecilia Bartoli ‘continues her Mission to discover the music of Agostino Steffani’ might lead an unsuspecting public to assume nobody of note has recorded Steffani’s Stabat mater before, but the celebrated work sent by the composer in 1728 to London’s recently founded Academy of Ancient Music has been recorded eminently by Gustav Leonhardt (DHM) and Harry Christophers (Coro). Bartoli sings little during this 73-minute collection – and her contributions are the weakest link. It seems odd to assign the star diva’s pinched vowels and restrained timbre to the simple plaintive introduction (‘Stabat mater dolorosa’) instead of a member of the choral ensemble. Franco Fagioli sings in the same unbridled way in his brief solo ‘Quis est homo’ (in fact, it’s hard to tell the countertenor and Bartoli apart); Daniel Behle and Julian Prégardien are clumsy in the tenor duet ‘Inflammatus et accensus’. This anachronistically over-egged performance is exacerbated by an overpoweringly loud choir and adds up to a strange kind of pseudo-Baroque Rossini rather than the stile antico intimacy and contrapuntal refinement Steffani’s music cries out for. Diego Fasolis presents six other shorter works, most written for Munich early in Steffani’s career: the Choir of Radiotelevisione Svizzera is disciplined in the concise yet impressive eight-part Beatus vir and short antiphon Triduanas a Domino but the brass doubling is a fiction invented by Fasolis. Bartoli returns to centre stage for a garish performance of the motet Non plus me ligate.

Still an enjoyable disc, but compared to how promising it looks on paper - ultimately a failure...

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: JCBuckley on March 24, 2018, 08:07:40 AM
.


This recording gets a lot of praise - just have a look at the Amazon reviews... And the music is by Agostino Steffani (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agostino_Steffani) (1654 - 1728) definitely worth discovering.
But the performances miss the mark, at least to my taste.... ::)

I think to voice of Cecilia Bartoli, who deserves praise for championing the composer, has grown to heavy for this repertoire. Her quite present vibrato doesn’t help either, nor does her overly dramatic approach on the music. The rest of the performance fall into line with that: too heavy with too much of everything.... Too dramatic, overbearing choral singing which is too loud or too numerous  (or both).

Q

I completely agree - I bought this CD having been very taken with the O'Dette recording of Steffani's Niobe, but have never returned to it after the first listening. I find Bartoli much too overbearing and unsubtle.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 09, 2018, 09:39:45 PM
The other day I took this of the shelf:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/077/MI0001077400.jpg)

And it failed to win me over....and I never really loved it... ::)
It's edgy but rather mechanical and bloodless. I missed a bit of warmth and TLC (tender loving care)..

So, I'm considering other recordings ans am open for suggestions!  :)

I prepared a shortlist of recordings of Corelli's Concerti Grossi Opus 6 to check:

- Ensemble 415 & Chiara Banchini  (Harmonia Mundi) I love her Geminiani on Zig Zag!
- Gli Incogniti & Amandine Beyer (Zig Zag) Live and supposedly including applause, I don’t know...
- Modo Antiquo & Frederico Maria Sardelli (Tactus)
- Alessandro Stradella Consort & Estevan Velardi (Dynamic) The dark horse on the list...

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Draško on May 11, 2018, 01:16:41 AM
So, I'm considering other recordings ans am open for suggestions!  :)

I prepared a shortlist of recordings of Corelli's Concerti Grossi Opus 6 to check:

Q

The one I have is Avison Ensemble/Beznosiuk. I like it but don't have any other point of reference.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Que on May 11, 2018, 01:18:33 AM
The one I have is Avison Ensemble/Beznosiuk. I like it but don't have any other point of reference.

I'll add it to the shortlist.  Thanks.  :)

Q
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: Florestan on May 11, 2018, 01:22:51 AM
The other day I took this of the shelf:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/077/MI0001077400.jpg)

And it failed to win me over....and I never really loved it... ::)
It's edgy but rather mechanical and bloodless. I missed a bit of wamth and TLC (tender loving care)..

So, I'm considering other recordings ans am open for suggestions!  :)

I prepared a shortlist of recordings of Corelli's Concerti Grossi Opus 6 to check:

- Ensemble 415 & Chiara Banchini  (Harmonia Mundi) I love her Geminiani on Zig Zag!
- Gli Incogniti & Amandine Beyer (Zig Zag) Live and supposedly including applause, I don’t know...
- Modo Antiquo & Frederico Maria Sardelli (Tactus)
- Alessandro Stradella Consort & Estevan Velardi (Dynamic) The dark horse on the list...

Q

I have this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61XGD0JTXML._SY355_.jpg) (https://classicalarchives.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/box-2.jpg)

Love it, but I'm a fan of Pieter-Jan Belder and his ensemble, anyway.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: GioCar on May 11, 2018, 08:08:25 PM
I grew up with this recording:



Actually in the original incarnation

(https://img.discogs.com/wTVhL5khtWfF9bc4yVq-SvYCzWU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5827157-1426180475-6638.jpeg.jpg)


and although is anything but HIP, I love it.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: aligreto on May 12, 2018, 12:52:52 AM
The other day I took this of the shelf:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/077/MI0001077400.jpg)

And it failed to win me over....and I never really loved it... ::)
It's edgy but rather mechanical and bloodless. I missed a bit of warmth and TLC (tender loving care)..

So, I'm considering other recordings ans am open for suggestions!  :)

I prepared a shortlist of recordings of Corelli's Concerti Grossi Opus 6 to check:

- Ensemble 415 & Chiara Banchini  (Harmonia Mundi) I love her Geminiani on Zig Zag!
- Gli Incogniti & Amandine Beyer (Zig Zag) Live and supposedly including applause, I don’t know...
- Modo Antiquo & Frederico Maria Sardelli (Tactus)
- Alessandro Stradella Consort & Estevan Velardi (Dynamic) The dark horse on the list...

Q

I have both the Banchini and the Beyer sets Que and neither will let you down. Just to put your mind at ease regarding the Beyer; these are very stylish and polished performances.
Title: Re: Italian Music from the Late Renaissance and Baroque
Post by: HIPster on May 12, 2018, 07:03:22 AM
The other day I took this of the shelf:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/077/MI0001077400.jpg)

And it failed to win me over....and I never really loved it... ::)
It's edgy but rather mechanical and bloodless. I missed a bit of warmth and TLC (tender loving care)..

So, I'm considering other recordings ans am open for suggestions!  :)

I prepared a shortlist of recordings of Corelli's Concerti Grossi Opus 6 to check:

- Ensemble 415 & Chiara Banchini  (Harmonia Mundi) I love her Geminiani on Zig Zag!
- Gli Incogniti & Amandine Beyer (Zig Zag) Live and supposedly including applause, I don’t know...
- Modo Antiquo & Frederico Maria Sardelli (Tactus)
- Alessandro Stradella Consort & Estevan Velardi (Dynamic) The dark horse on the list...

Q

Hi Que,

The Sardelli/Modo Antiquo is a different beast altogether.  Sardelli uses wind instruments throughout (he makes a convincing case for this in the liner notes).  To my ears, the music benefits immensely from this approach.

I have both the Banchini and the Beyer sets Que and neither will let you down. Just to put your mind at ease regarding the Beyer; these are very stylish and polished performances.

Thanks for your input on these, aligreto.  :)

I would expect nothing less from these forces.  I may consider one down the road.

The one I have is Avison Ensemble/Beznosiuk. I like it but don't have any other point of reference.


I also like this one too.  Superb playing and sound quality.

However, I find this group to be at their best here:



This one really surprised me on a first listen.  Very nice.  :)

Happy hunting and good luck, Que!  ;)

Keep us posted, please.