GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: premont on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM

Title: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: Que on September 14, 2007, 01:03:44 AM

Complete keyboard sonatas of Domenico Scarlatti by Pieter-Jan Belder (36 CD's)
(http://records.joanrecords.com/ProductImages/93546.jpg)


Recently I acquired the first two vol.s (á 3 CDs) of Belder´s on-going Scarlatti set. This is nothing less than a relevation, because Belder´s interpretations are much more human and reflective than Scott Ross´, and Belder accordingly finds more depth in these works than Scott Ross, who in these ears often is too efficient (read: superficial). Certainly Scarlatti´s Sonatas demand brilliant keyboard technique, but Belder is completely up to Ross in this matter. So I am afraid, that the Belder box is a "must have".
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Harry on September 18, 2007, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: premont on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM
Recently I acquired the first two vol.s (á 3 CDs) of Belder´s on-going Scarlatti set. This is nothing less than a relevation, because Belder´s interpretations are much more human and reflective than Scott Ross´, and Belder accordingly finds more depth in these works than Scott Ross, who in these ears often is too efficient (read: superficial). Certainly Scarlatti´s Sonatas demand brilliant keyboard technique, but Belder is completely up to Ross in this matter. So I am afraid, that the Belder box is a "must have".

Finally somebody thinking this also. I have been screaming against the roofs how good this was, but nobody did give a damn. I am glad you like it Premont.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on September 19, 2007, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: premont on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM
because Belder´s interpretations are much more human and reflective than Scott Ross

Good to know. I think i'll stick to the Ross then. I'm not sure i can handle Scarlatti in such an anachronistic (and should i say, impertinent) guise.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on September 20, 2007, 11:03:02 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 19, 2007, 08:13:15 PM
Good to know. I think i'll stick to the Ross then. I'm not sure i can handle Scarlatti in such an anachronistic (and should i say, impertinent) guise.

Nothing but your opinion, and I am happy, that I don´t share it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on September 20, 2007, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: Harry on September 18, 2007, 12:34:59 PM
Finally somebody thinking this also. I have been screaming against the roofs how good this was, but nobody did give a damn. I am glad you like it Premont.

And it was indeed your insistent recommandation, which prompted me to investigate Belders Scarlatti. Thanks.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: rubio on February 28, 2008, 10:17:59 PM
By some, these sonatas are considered among the pinnacles of classical music, and I have not heard any of this music. When it comes to Bach I (so far) prefer to hear his work on harpsichord rather than piano. I guess I will have to try both also with Scarlatti. Can you recommend some top-notch Scarlatti recital discs. Would e.g. this one be a good introduction for piano?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/7318590015087.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 28, 2008, 10:30:54 PM
Michelangeli's are superb (available on the Membran 10 CD set). Or watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHUIpNCu2k

On harpsichord, Ralph Kirkpatrick is certainly worth a listen, in part because he is considered the grandfather of modern D. Scarlatti scholarship.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on February 28, 2008, 10:51:37 PM
Quote from: rubio on February 28, 2008, 10:17:59 PM
By some, these sonatas are considered among the pinnacles of classical music, and I have not heard any of this music. When it comes to Bach I (so far) prefer to hear his work on harpsichord rather than piano. I guess I will have to try both also with Scarlatti. Can you recommend some top-notch Scarlatti recital discs. Would e.g. this one be a good introduction for piano?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/7318590015087.jpg)

This is an absolutely great recording, Sudbin has the knack of bringing a fesh approach to what he plays. On top of that I'd highly recommend the following

Babayan from Propiano

(http://www.propiano.com/photos/224506.jpg)

Horowitz from Sony

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SKJWMX6BL._AA240_.jpg)

Zacharias from EMI

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gumpi7wXL._AA240_.jpg)

Tomsic

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21B8MCZ892L._AA130_.jpg)

..and di Bonoventura

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j8ub4zRfL._AA240_.jpg)

The Babayan, Horowitz, Tomsic and Sudbin are superb. There are others who don't have complete CDs such as Haskil, Gilels and Perahia who are also worth listening to

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on February 28, 2008, 10:54:29 PM
Try Scarlatti on a Cristofori fortepiano, the instrument for which many of the sonatas were probably written. 

http://www.denzilwraight.com/Zylberajch.htm
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: rubio on February 28, 2008, 11:17:21 PM
Thanks for many interesting recommendations! Has anybody here heard this cheap CD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419BG19X48L._AA240_.jpg)

Or Marcelle Meyer:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MT6N3NZNL._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on February 29, 2008, 01:42:48 AM
Quote from: rubio on February 28, 2008, 11:17:21 PM
Thanks for many interesting recommendations! Has anybody here heard this cheap CD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419BG19X48L._AA240_.jpg)

Or Marcelle Meyer:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MT6N3NZNL._AA240_.jpg)

I have both and would give my nod to Meyer for what it is (Scarlatti played
romantically on a romantic-style piano).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: rubio on February 29, 2008, 02:01:42 AM
Quote from: fl.traverso on February 29, 2008, 01:42:48 AM
I have both and would give my nod to Meyer for what it is (Scarlatti played
romantically on a romantic-style piano).

Does the Meyer include the 1947 or the 1953-55 recordings of these sonatas?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: dirkronk on February 29, 2008, 04:59:39 AM
The only option I would add to Holden's superb recommendations--and mainly for historical interest and perspective--would be the ancient Landowska.

Enjoy!

Dirk
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 05:03:54 AM
I like Pogorelich on piano in Scarlatti, as well as Michalangeli. (And I prefer Scarlatti over Bach and piano over harpsichord.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Don on February 29, 2008, 05:29:40 AM
Quote from: rubio on February 28, 2008, 10:17:59 PM
By some, these sonatas are considered among the pinnacles of classical music, and I have not heard any of this music. When it comes to Bach I (so far) prefer to hear his work on harpsichord rather than piano. I guess I will have to try both also with Scarlatti. Can you recommend some top-notch Scarlatti recital discs. Would e.g. this one be a good introduction for piano?

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/7318590015087.jpg)

The Sudbin is a wonderful disc.  If you prefer Bach on harpsichord, you'll likely prefer Scarlatti on harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: ragman1970 on February 29, 2008, 05:32:58 AM
Pogorelich is missing!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: ragman1970 on February 29, 2008, 05:32:58 AM
Pogorelich is missing!

Ha! I mentioned him!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: ragman1970 on February 29, 2008, 05:38:51 AM
Quote from: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 05:34:22 AM
Ha! I mentioned him!

Sorry, my faultSomeone mentioned Demidenko?
Different approch as Sudbin or Pogorelich, not so colorful and warm, but great pianism. (both recording!!!)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on February 29, 2008, 05:47:00 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 29, 2008, 05:24:29 AM
(http://hdelboy.club.fr/scott_ross_2.jpg)


An excellent choice.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 06:44:07 AM
Quote from: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 05:03:54 AM
as well as Michalangeli.

There are some fascinating videos on Youtube of a young Michelangeli playing Scarlatti.

Quote
(And I prefer Scarlatti over Bach and piano over harpsichord.)

Have you heard Rameau on piano? It's wonderful too.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: alkan on February 29, 2008, 08:00:29 AM
Try this for a harpsichord version !!!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PDDZFC3BL.jpg)

Pierre Hantai is dynamite in some of these sonates !!!        Must be heard to be believed.     Excellent CD .... one of my favourites.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 09:13:00 AM
In addition to the many splendid piano recommendations.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jurzCQuRL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F32RQ28NL._AA130_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TJ8P3W84L._AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ABZ0VV9SL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31VDC7RWY4L._AA170_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Don on February 29, 2008, 09:26:04 AM
The Scherbakov/Naxos disc is one of my least enjoyable Scarlatti recordings.  I find him lacking the joy of the major key sonatas as well as the intensity of sadness of the three programmed minor key works.  However, I have to admit that my view is a minority one.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: orbital on February 29, 2008, 09:39:12 AM
Quote from: fl.traverso on February 28, 2008, 10:54:29 PM
Try Scarlatti on a Cristofori fortepiano, the instrument for which many of the sonatas were probably written. 

http://www.denzilwraight.com/Zylberajch.htm
Her playing is not very playful, but I still enjoy that recording a lot. Good choice of sonatas there, too.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
Quote from: Don on February 29, 2008, 09:26:04 AM
However, I have to admit that my view is a minority one.

not really. the problem with this board is that whenever someone asks for a recommendation, every available CD gets posted. makes the whole thing rather pointless.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: rubio on February 29, 2008, 09:48:15 AM
Quote from: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
not really. the problem with this board is that whenever someone asks for a recommendation, every available CD gets posted. makes the whole thing rather pointless.

After a while you know which posters you have common taste with, and more likely pay attention to their advices.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 09:52:27 AM
Quote from: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
not really. the problem with this board is that whenever someone asks for a recommendation, every available CD gets posted. makes the whole thing rather pointless.

True. That is why it is important to know the tastes and knowledge level (size of collection also counts sometimes because if you only have 30 CDs...). For instance, I know Paul reads your posts on piano recordings, Edward for modern music, etc.

My least favorite posts are ones in which someone asks for recommendations of piano concerto and someone just put up a list of 500 piano concertos with no other comments. That just seems like showing off, and it is really just copy and paste.

Well, I am not qualified to say much in matters about music, really. Just my feelings, that's all.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: Don on February 29, 2008, 09:26:04 AM
The Scherbakov/Naxos disc is one of my least enjoyable Scarlatti recordings.  I find him lacking the joy of the major key sonatas as well as the intensity of sadness of the three programmed minor key works.  However, I have to admit that my view is a minority one.

Just as it was in the Shostakovich thread. ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 11:51:26 AM
Quote from: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
not really. the problem with this board is that whenever someone asks for a recommendation, every available CD gets posted. makes the whole thing rather pointless.

At the moment I think we are quite a ways from every available CD, but if you would like to help us along.... ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: vanessa_zang on February 29, 2008, 09:52:27 AM
True. That is why it is important to know the tastes and knowledge level (size of collection also counts sometimes because if you only have 30 CDs...). For instance, I know Paul reads your posts on piano recordings, Edward for modern music, etc.

My least favorite posts are ones in which someone asks for recommendations of piano concerto and someone just put up a list of 500 piano concertos with no other comments. That just seems like showing off, and it is really just copy and paste.

Well, I am not qualified to say much in matters about music, really. Just my feelings, that's all.

It helps to know, too, that D. Scarlatti composed nearly 500 Sonatas, and that a buyer can randomly grab ten to twelve piano CDs and have little redundancy.

I find it fun to listen to as many of his Sonatas as possible, along with varying performer styles.

The crying of a few on this thread is so sad. Pass the Kleenex. ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 11:51:26 AM
At the moment I think we are quite a ways from every available CD, but if you would like to help us along.... ;D

Maria Tipo

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1221162
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on February 29, 2008, 12:35:46 PM
Quote from: orbital on February 29, 2008, 09:39:12 AM
Her playing is not very playful, but I still enjoy that recording a lot. Good choice of sonatas there, too.

Leonhardt (for example) is more playful than either Scott Ross or A. Zylbeyrajch.  But there is a Scarlatti
interpretation for every mood.   And the Cristofori instrument sounds so soulful as recorded. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on February 29, 2008, 12:47:51 PM
On harpsichord Scott Ross is my favourite to date, chosen over Staier, Belder or Hantaï. I still have Dantone (Stradivarius) and Baiano (Symphonia) waiting on my wish list.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0825646003020.jpg)

On piano I second Horowitz, like him more than the Marcelle Meyer (which is quite good btw) or Pletnev (doesn't do zip for me..)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on February 29, 2008, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: sidoze on February 29, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
not really. the problem with this board is that whenever someone asks for a recommendation, every available CD gets posted. makes the whole thing rather pointless.

A good point though if a thread goes for long enough, you begin to see the outstanding candidates. One thing IO have noticed is that the majority of us will whole heartedly give a recommendation but never, because of a natural courtesy, criticise the recommendations of others. This 'criticism', which is never personal I hope, should also help the thread originator make up their mind.

That said I'd like to add to my post. Some have nominated Pogorelich vor the same reason as Sudbin because they both bring a sense of freshness to the music.While Sudbin uses pianistic 'colour' to achieve this, Pogorelich does not. He changes the value of the notation is many places by misuse of the 'rest' and adding a rubato type effect that did not exist in Scarlatti's day. Even after three separate auditions I can't bear to listen to it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: B_cereus on February 29, 2008, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: BorisG on February 29, 2008, 09:13:00 AM
In addition to the many splendid piano recommendations.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F32RQ28NL._AA130_.jpg)


I like this one too.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: bassio on March 01, 2008, 03:27:32 AM
Ross is one of my favorite harpsichordist but unfortunately I still do not have his Scarlatti. Glad to know that it is widely recommended here.

Quote from: Que on February 29, 2008, 12:47:51 PM
On piano I second Horowitz, like him more than the Marcelle Meyer (which is quite good btw) or Pletnev (doesn't do zip for me..)

Q

I agree here.. I avoid Pletnev for Scarlatti (even if he is regarded as one of the most famous pianists who played Scarlatti)

Horowitz is ipso facto .. Pogorelich also had a very nice disc out. But the pianist who plays the K87 and K466 better than both in my opinion is Sudbin.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 01, 2008, 05:31:35 AM
Quote from: bassio on March 01, 2008, 03:27:32 AM
Ross is one of my favorite harpsichordist but unfortunately I still do not have his Scarlatti. Glad to know that it is widely recommended here.

I agree here.. I avoid Pletnev for Scarlatti (even if he is regarded as one of the most famous pianists who played Scarlatti)

Horowitz is ipso facto .. Pogorelich also had a very nice disc out. But the pianist who plays the K87 and K466 better than both in my opinion is Sudbin.

I find Pletnev's Scarlatti revolting.  Thank G I bought the set used for next to nothing or I would have regretted it to the extreme.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on March 01, 2008, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 01, 2008, 05:31:35 AM
I find Pletnev's Scarlatti revolting.  Thank G I bought the set used for next to nothing or I would have regretted it to the extreme.

Yes, what you hear is Pletnev, not Scarlatti.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: sidoze on March 01, 2008, 02:01:05 PM
Quote from: Holden on March 01, 2008, 01:20:58 PM
Yes, what you hear is Pletnev, not Scarlatti.

That is always the case with Pletnev. Always, IMO. I found his Kreisleriana dreadful (icy cold, heard it in concert 18 months ago) but his live Chopin is breathtaking in how personal and unique it sounds (Preludes, mazurkas, to a lesser extent the 3rd sonata). Very much hit and miss, but always personal at least.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 01, 2008, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Holden on March 01, 2008, 01:20:58 PM
Yes, what you hear is Pletnev, not Scarlatti.

I don't presume that I know what real Scarlatti is like, but I know that I don't like what I hear
in Pletnev's interpretation.  I do like Olli Mustonen's usual "distortions," after all. ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: bassio on March 02, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
It seems like avoiding Pletnev's Scarlatti is common around here.

Any other marathonic runs of the whole thing other than Ross?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on March 02, 2008, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: sidoze on March 01, 2008, 02:01:05 PM
That is always the case with Pletnev. Always, IMO. I found his Kreisleriana dreadful (icy cold, heard it in concert 18 months ago) but his live Chopin is breathtaking in how personal and unique it sounds (Preludes, mazurkas, to a lesser extent the 3rd sonata). Very much hit and miss, but always personal at least.

Tony, I have found one exception and that is his recording of the Tchaikovsky 'Seasons' on Virgin. Very good indeed.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 02, 2008, 11:15:09 AM
Quote from: bassio on March 02, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
It seems like avoiding Pletnev's Scarlatti is common around here.

Any other marathonic runs of the whole thing other than Ross?

Pieter-Jan Belder (Brilliant)

Richard Lester (Nimbus)

Gilbert Rowland (Keyboard Records)

There might be more on harpsichord alone.



Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 02, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 02, 2008, 11:15:09 AM
Pieter-Jan Belder (Brilliant)

Richard Lester (Nimbus)

Gilbert Rowland (Keyboard Records)

There might be more on harpsichord alone.


Fernando Valenti recorded something like one third (I think) of the Sonatas for Westminster in the 1950es. Not HIP but very expressive and colourful playing on a pre-authentic harpsichord with 16 F stop.

And there is an on-going series released by Stradivarius, shared by Ottavio Dantone and Sergio Vartolo among others.

I suppose that Richard Lesters integral is incomplete so far, and that it is rather expensive, but still available.
But is Gilbert Rowlands integral complete, and is it available?

At the moment I own the Ross integral and the Belder integral, and I feel no real need for more integrals, whereas I have put single CDs by Leonhardt, Hantäi and others on my wishlist.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 02, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: premont on March 02, 2008, 02:12:43 PM



I suppose that Richard Lesters integral is incomplete so far, and that it is rather expensive, but still available.
But is Gilbert Rowlands integral complete, and is it available?




I am sure that the Lester is complete (7 vol. 38 cd's) and actually not expensive at all in its Nimbus incarnation. 
The Rowlands recordings are easy to find (ebay) but never in one box so I cannot vouch for its completeness
(even though I think it is).

A link to Richard Lester's storefront site: http://www.the-scarlatti-experience.fsnet.co.uk/indexb.htm
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2008, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 02, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
I am sure that the Lester is complete (7 vol. 38 cd's) and actually not expensive at all in its Nimbus incarnation. 
The Rowlands recordings are easy to find (ebay) but never in one box so I cannot vouch for its completeness
(even though I think it is).

A link to Richard Lester's storefront site: http://www.the-scarlatti-experience.fsnet.co.uk/indexb.htm

Thanks for the link! :)

Pity the organs look like real downers...
Couldn't they recorded some nice Spanish or Italian organs ???

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 03, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 02, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
I am sure that the Lester is complete (7 vol. 38 cd's) and actually not expensive at all in its Nimbus incarnation. 
The Rowlands recordings are easy to find (ebay) but never in one box so I cannot vouch for its completeness
(even though I think it is).

A link to Richard Lester's storefront site: http://www.the-scarlatti-experience.fsnet.co.uk/indexb.htm

Yes, thanks for the link.
About 300 Euros for the complete Lester set is just a bit, even if it may be worth the cost. Maybe Luke can say something about that.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 03, 2008, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: premont on March 03, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
Yes, thanks for the link.
About 300 Euros for the complete Lester set is just a bit, even if it may be worth the cost. Maybe Luke can say something about that.

The Scott Ross used to cost a bunch also - do you recall?  Belder on BC is super bargain price which is more exception than norm I think. 

I have about half of the Lester now and surely haven't spent more than £40.... I choose to purchase them where cheaper I suppose.  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 03, 2008, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2008, 09:16:02 AM
Thanks for the link! :)

Pity the organs look like real downers...
Couldn't they recorded some nice Spanish or Italian organs ???

Q

The organ (only one was used) was built in the Iberlian style....including horizontal trumpets which aren't a feature of Italian organs.

Lester was captivated by "the downer's" resemblance to the Madrid Royal Chapel instrument.  Obviously you aren't as much.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 03, 2008, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 01, 2008, 10:24:01 PM
I don't presume that I know what real Scarlatti is like, but I know that I don't like what I hear
in Pletnev's interpretation.  I do like Olli Mustonen's usual "distortions," after all. ;)

OK I must say that I actually like what Pletnev does in Mozart and Haydn.  Of course there is still
the minus of him not using (and not knowing how to use) period instruments at all.  ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2008, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 03, 2008, 01:50:48 PM
The organ (only one was used) was built in the Iberlian style....including horizontal trumpets which aren't a feature of Italian organs.

Lester was captivated by "the downer's" resemblance to the Madrid Royal Chapel instrument.  Obviously you aren't as much.

I noticed two organs. Maybe an organ built in 1984 "with a specification similar to the instrument in the Chapel of the Royal Palace in Madrid." actually means that it sounds like a Spanish period organ, maybe not. But why not the real thing? And a "a two-manual organ in Barnsley church, a village near Cirencester in Gloucestershire." does not sound particularly exciting. But I might be mistaken, of course. :D

Anyway, I already have a very satisfactory recording with D. Scarlatti on organ!  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/7619913796073.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3636259?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 03, 2008, 10:19:15 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2008, 08:45:32 PM
I noticed two organs. Maybe an organ built in 1984 "with a specification similar to the instrument in the Chapel of the Royal Palace in Madrid." actually means that it sounds like a Spanish period organ, maybe not. But why not the real thing? And a "a two-manual organ in Barnsley church, a village near Cirencester in Gloucestershire." does not sound particularly exciting. But I might be mistaken, of course. :D

Anyway, I already have a very satisfactory recording with D. Scarlatti on organ! 


Even if the said organs (sorry I overlooked the one used only for two fugues) either resemble the one at the Spanish court or contain authentic 18th century pipeworks?   They prefer to record in England when reasonable results in historical verisimiiitude can be obtained, and I don't blame them if they don't particularly feel like to travel just to record a few non-harpsichord/fortepiano pieces.  In fact whether using Italian organs for Scarlatti sonatas necessarily is more authentic than doing so on Spanish style reproductions is debatable to say the least.

On the topic of Scarlatti on organ, there simply isn't that much Scarlatti that demands to be played/recorded on the organ.  I have the Marcon recording as well, and he admits that the choice of sonatas performed on that disc was made mostly on the ground of his own conjecture!  ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on March 04, 2008, 09:47:18 AM
Quote from: fl.traverso on March 03, 2008, 10:19:15 PM
On the topic of Scarlatti on organ, there simply isn't that much Scarlatti that demands to be played/recorded on the organ.  I have the Marcon recording as well, and he admits that the choice of sonatas performed on that disc was made mostly on the ground of his own conjecture!  ;)

Oh, that's very true. But it sounds great! ;D

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on March 04, 2008, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: Que on March 04, 2008, 09:47:18 AM
Oh, that's very true. But it sounds great! ;D

Q

Then I must say Scarlatti sounds great on guitars and on accordions as well   ;D

eg. Several recordings of Scarlatti on 1 or 2 guitars exist and on accordion, there is at least
Teodoro Anzellotti "Vivi felice!" on Winter & Winter
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on May 03, 2008, 01:16:57 AM
As a youngster learning the piano I heard a recording of the piano sonata in E major L23 (K380) and fell in love with the piece so much that I raced to the music store and bought a copy of the sheet music so I could learn to play it myself (much to the chagrin of my teacher). This began my life long love of this huge oeuvre and I've been investigating Scarlatti recordings ever since.

Now while these were composed for the keyboards of the time, including the harpsichord, I find that for me the piano brings out the best of this music. So therefore this thread is about the better recordings for the piano. below is a list of what I consider to be excellent recordings. I've deliberately not included recordings that don't fill up a whole CD. So here we go

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Y58A7WZL._SS500_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SKJWMX6BL._SS500_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j8ub4zRfL._SS500_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21RN5NHCJ7L._SL500_AA130_.jpg)

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3b/48/feac224128a0775e2e2d4010._AA240_.L.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gumpi7wXL._SS400_.jpg)

Now there are also excellent Scarlatti performances by Haskil, Gilels, Perahia, ABM but they are just potpourri.

If I had to choose just three from the list above then Babayan, Horowitz and Sudbin stand out.

Please feel free to add your own favourites.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on May 03, 2008, 06:52:52 AM
I don't know if I'd say the piano brings out the best of this music, but I certainly enjoy Scarlatti played on the piano.  The Babayan disc is top-flight stuff all the way - a real treat.  I enjoy Sudbin, though I'm not as bowled over by it as many people.  Andras Schiff's Decca recording is surprisingly effective, even with a smooth, graceful sound.  I need to try his Hungaroton disc.

Earlier this year I picked up all four extant CDs of Christian Zacharias playing Scarlatti – the three EMI discs (in a box-set from Germany) and his more recent recording for MDG.  All are superb.  His flexibility and nuance is mesmerizing, and he goes for more than flash.  His approach is more 'pianistic' than some may prefer, but I love all four discs. 

In addition to the limited recordings mentioned (Haskil, et al), I'll mention Robert Casadesus.  Pity he only recorded a half-dozen for CBS; his style works rather well here, too.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on May 03, 2008, 07:02:10 AM
Quote from: Todd on May 03, 2008, 06:52:52 AM
I don't know if I'd say the piano brings out the best of this music, but I certainly enjoy Scarlatti played on the piano.  The Babayan disc is top-flight stuff all the way - a real treat.  I enjoy Sudbin, though I'm not as bowled over by it as many people.  Andras Schiff's Decca recording is surprisingly effective, even with a smooth, graceful sound.  I need to try his Hungaroton disc.

Earlier this year I picked up all four extant CDs of Christian Zacharias playing Scarlatti – the three EMI discs (in a box-set from Germany) and his more recent recording for MDG.  All are superb.  His flexibility and nuance is mesmerizing, and he goes for more than flash.  His approach is more 'pianistic' than some may prefer, but I love all four discs. 

In addition to the limited recordings mentioned (Haskil, et al), I'll mention Robert Casadesus.  Pity he only recorded a half-dozen for CBS; his style works rather well here, too.

I would add Pletnevs double on Virgin.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Don on May 03, 2008, 07:54:08 AM
I've been enjoying the Naxos series that features a different pianist for each volume.  The only volume I did not care for much was no. 7 played by Scherbakov.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Don on May 03, 2008, 08:42:51 AM
I prefer these works on the harpsichord which is the better instrument for highlighting sharp contours and impetuosity.  That said, the piano also has advantages.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on May 03, 2008, 04:21:21 PM
Horowitz, Pletnev, Pogorelich, Queffelec, Scherbakov, Schiff, Sudbin, Tipo, Tomsic., Ts'ong, Zacharias.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 03, 2008, 06:31:38 PM
Michelangeli's are not to be missed; neither are Myra Hess' for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrRdNwgt0B4
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on May 04, 2008, 12:15:46 AM
Quote from: Don on May 03, 2008, 08:42:51 AM
That said, the piano also has advantages.

Yes, but not in performing Scarlatti!  8)

There are nevertheless some pianists who turn out a musically exceptional performance...

The previous (recent) thread on the same subject (plus the harpsichord): Scarlatti sonatas - piano/harpsichord (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6253.0.html)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on May 04, 2008, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: James on May 04, 2008, 10:06:09 PM
Speak for yourself.

I always do, James.

Quote from: James on May 04, 2008, 10:06:09 PM
All I can say is thank God the first Scarlatti I heard wasn't on the harpsichord...I might not have bothered listening again. 8)

Pity you don't like the harpsichord, it is a really wonderful instrument. Not liking it seems a major disadvantage in appreciating keyboard music from the Baroque era - not least of all: Bach's! ::)

Most pianists pick out the Scarlatti sonatas that work best on a piano, but nevertheless many characteristics of the music are altered. Even so, the result can be highly enjoyable if the pianist is a great musician, like Horowitz. But that doesn't make the piano generally speaking particularly suitable for performing this music. Ever heard Scarlatti sonatas performed on organ? Works actually much better than on the piano ...

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 07:59:45 AM
Quote from: James on May 04, 2008, 10:29:16 PM
It's not that I dont like the harpsichord but the piano for me has so much more and I'd rather listen to them.

Must say I've never really liked Bach on the harpsichord - sounds like skeletons copulating in a biscuit tin ... the piano (or organ) has so much more.

Too, too, harsh!  Unnecessarily harsh!  It's one thing to state a personal preference, but in going so far, you are actually trashing Old Bach.  Bach indisputably loved the sound of his music on the harpsichord, and took great pride in his mastery of that instrument.  To suggest that Bach would have forsaken the harpsichord for the piano if only he had one available is to indulge in silly speculation.  The glory of Bach's music is not that it sounds better on an instrument Bach couldn't imagine, but that it sounds wonderful on any instruments you play it on -- including, and especially the harpsichord.

Back to topic!

I love Scarlatti on harpsichord and on piano.  One of my favorite recordings on piano is by Alexis Weissenberg.  It won't be to everyone's taste, but for pure fireworks it cannot be beat!

I also have a wonderful vinyl recording of Scarlatti played on a pedal fortepiano from the Metropolitan Museum of Art that may have been similar to models owned by Queen Maria Barbara, and possibly known by Scarlatti.  I do believe that the reason many of his essercizi display well on the piano is because the composer actually had early prototypes of the instrument available to him.  Many of his pieces also sound wonderful arranged for guitar, clearly the music of the Iberian peninsula was a great influence on him. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on May 06, 2008, 08:42:35 AM
Quote from: BorisG on May 03, 2008, 04:21:21 PM
Horowitz, Pletnev, Pogorelich, Queffelec, Scherbakov, Schiff, Sudbin, Tipo, Tomsic., Ts'ong, Zacharias.

Marcelle Meyer
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: ezodisy on May 06, 2008, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 03, 2008, 06:31:38 PM
Michelangeli's are not to be missed; neither are Myra Hess' for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrRdNwgt0B4

As good as it gets, and always surprising he is overlooked here as his style and temperament are absolutely perfect for this music. With all respect to the young guns, they've got a long way to go before they reach perfection like this.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Guido on May 06, 2008, 11:34:56 AM
What do people think of this one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21641YY355L._SL500_AA144_.jpg)

Browning has long been one of my favourite pianists.

http://www.amazon.com/John-Browning-Performs-Domenico-Scarlatti/dp/B0001IXBJS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1210102317&sr=8-2
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: BorisG on May 06, 2008, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 07:59:45 AM
Too, too, harsh!  Unnecessarily harsh!  It's one thing to state a personal preference, but in going so far, you are actually trashing Old Bach.  Bach indisputably loved the sound of his music on the harpsichord, and took great pride in his mastery of that instrument.  To suggest that Bach would have forsaken the harpsichord for the piano if only he had one available is to indulge in silly speculation.  The glory of Bach's music is not that it sounds better on an instrument Bach couldn't imagine, but that it sounds wonderful on any instruments you play it on -- including, and especially the harpsichord.

Back to topic!

I love Scarlatti on harpsichord and on piano.  One of my favorite recordings on piano is by Alexis Weissenberg.  It won't be to everyone's taste, but for pure fireworks it cannot be beat!

I also have a wonderful vinyl recording of Scarlatti played on a pedal fortepiano from the Metropolitan Museum of Art that may have been similar to models owned by Queen Maria Barbara, and possibly known by Scarlatti.  I do believe that the reason many of his essercizi display well on the piano is because the composer actually had early prototypes of the instrument available to him.  Many of his pieces also sound wonderful arranged for guitar, clearly the music of the Iberian peninsula was a great influence on him. 

An interesting read on Scarlatti's technique, and the equipment available to him-

http://www.sankey.ws/scarlattimus.html
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: BorisG on May 06, 2008, 11:45:05 AM
An interesting read on Scarlatti's technique, and the equipment available to him-

http://www.sankey.ws/scarlattimus.html

thanks!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Guido on May 06, 2008, 11:53:39 AM
Anyone have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Domenico-Scarlatti-Complete-Sonatas-Vol/dp/B000IB0DGW

Why is there a cellist listed in the performers?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: Guido on May 06, 2008, 11:53:39 AM
Anyone have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Domenico-Scarlatti-Complete-Sonatas-Vol/dp/B000IB0DGW

Why is there a cellist listed in the performers?

Because the listing was made by someone at amazon who doesn't know what a gravicembalo is?  Lester also played fortepiano and organ for the set, but not a cello.  Here's a link to Nimbus (http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/scarlatti.html) that describes the set.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Guido on May 06, 2008, 12:13:41 PM
 here was me hoping that someone had arranged some for cello and piano! I would like nothing better to be able to play somethig by Scarlatti on the cello - all we have are rather mundane offering by Allessandro Scarlatti. I suppose that these are so much 'piano pieces' that it would be difficult or innapropriate to know how to incorporate another instrument into them - This will need some thought!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 12:40:27 PM
Quote from: Guido on May 06, 2008, 12:13:41 PM
here was me hoping that someone had arranged some for cello and piano! I would like nothing better to be able to play somethig by Scarlatti on the cello - all we have are rather mundane offering by Allessandro Scarlatti. I suppose that these are so much 'piano pieces' that it would be difficult or innapropriate to know how to incorporate another instrument into them - This will need some thought!

Guido, these  "essercizi" that we are discussing are by Domenico Scarlatti, not his father Alessandro who was a great composer of the Italian Opera Seria.

As for finding an arrangement for cello, perhaps you might start with some of the guitar arrangements?  There are recordings of arrangements for one and two guitars that I know of.  Perhaps they might be suitable for transcription for cello?  Btw, the Yepes recording has been reissued by Arkivmusic.com (available through amazon), and may also be available as a download from DG.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/c4/d8/b3cc224128a06c9c377d2010.L.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WMCW4B5NL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: dirkronk on May 06, 2008, 12:59:44 PM
I do love Scarlatti on piano and--again--my faves have already been named. However, a friend recently provided me with a CD by Viktoria Lakissova on the Labor Records label. The performances, from Radio Bremen in 2004, are a smattering of Domenico Scarlatti keyboard sonatas--on piano--coupled with pieces composed as homages to Scarlatti, by Francaix, Manziarly, Nikolovski, Alkan, Lewenthal, Hamelin, Godowski, Steffens and Kurtag. Though I wouldn't put Ms. Lakissova on the same plane as Horowitz, Babayan, Sudbin and others, she seems pretty darn good at first hearing--and the disc makes for very interesting listening. I still need to live with it for a while before generally recommending its purchase, but those who see it available cheap somewhere might want to check it out.

Cheers,

Dirk
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Guido on May 06, 2008, 02:33:51 PM
Quote from: Bunny on May 06, 2008, 12:40:27 PM
Guido, these  "essercizi" that we are discussing are by Domenico Scarlatti, not his father Alessandro who was a great composer of the Italian Opera Seria.

Thanks very much for the recording recommendations. I know that we are discussing the essercizi, I was just commenting that the closest thing us cellists had to Domenico Scarlatti, are his father's rather pale offerings. I will look into those recordings!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 07, 2008, 06:09:29 AM
Quote from: Guido on May 06, 2008, 02:33:51 PM
Thanks very much for the recording recommendations. I know that we are discussing the essercizi, I was just commenting that the closest thing us cellists had to Domenico Scarlatti, are his father's rather pale offerings. I will look into those recordings!

Well, good luck in your search!  I hope the guitar arrangements will be of use when you are making the transcriptions for cello.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on June 21, 2008, 11:52:34 PM
I got requests by 12tone and SonicMan for comments on this Scarlatti disc by Ottavio Dantone, part of a planned Scarlatti series on the Italian label Stradivarius (http://www.stradivarius.it/). Played on different instruments and by various performers:

Vol. 1. Spanish Influence. Emilia Fadini, harpsichord. STR 33500
Vol. 2: The Italian Manner. Ottavio Dantone, harpsichord. STR 33501
Vol. 3: Iberian Naples. Sergio Vartolo, harpsichord & organ. STR 33502
Vol. 4: The Italian Manner, Part II. Ottavio Dantone, harpsichord. STR 33503
Vol. 5: Scarlatti as chosen by Clementi. Emilia Fadini, fortepiano. STR 33618
Vol. 6. The Harmonic Research. Marco Farolfi, harpsichord & fortepiano. STR 33619
Vol. 7. The Italian Manner, Part III. Ottavio Dantone, harpsichord. STR 33621
Vol. 9. Scarlatti and the Organ. Maria Cecilia Farina, organ. STR 33667
Vol. 10. The Mandolin Sonatas. Mauro Squillante, mandolino. Vrenna Raffaele, harpsichord. STR 33710


(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8011570335012.jpg)

So, here it goes. :) I was surprised. Knowing Dantone from Bach recordings (stellar Goldbergs & WTC), this shows another side to him. An being familiar with Scott Ross' "helter skelter" interpretations, this sounds a bit more mellow and especially in the slower sonatas more contemplative. Dantone carefully spins them out, a moments at the verge of plodding (to my taste), while Ross "zips" through them at moderate but forward pace. This is emphasised by the recording, which is rather diffuse -  I suspect the instrument was recorded from a moderate distance in a rather spacious room. Also the instrument - a copy after the Portuguese harpsichord builder Joachim (Joaquim) José Antunes, 1785 - is very sonourous and quite soft-edged. Quite a special sound. But Dantone can get strong as well, resulting in rather "thunderous" passages.

All in all intelligent, idiomatic, subtle and very rewarding interpretations. On the plus side are sophistication and lush sonorities, but still I'd liked a bit more quixoticism. But I guess that's a question of "How weird do you want your Scarlatti?" In my case: pretty weird.. ;D Next I'll try Encrico Baiano (Symphonia)

Samples - have fun! :) Comparing first Ottavio Dantone and then Scott Ross:
Sonata K.43:
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/01%20Sonata%20in%20g%20minor%2C%20K.43.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/3-13%20Sonata%20in%20G%20minor%20-%20Kk%20043.mp3[/mp3]
Sonata K.52:
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/04%20Sonata%20in%20d%20minor%2C%20K.52.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/4-04%20Keyboard%20Sonata%20in%20D%20minor%20-%20Kk%20052_%20Andante%20moderato.mp3[/mp3]
Sonata K.53:
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/05%20Sonata%20in%20D%20major%2C%20K.53.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/4-05%20Keyboard%20Sonata%20in%20D%20major%20-%20Kk%20053_%20Presto.mp3[/mp3]
Q


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on October 03, 2008, 06:29:59 PM
Quote from: premont on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM
Recently I acquired the first two vol.s (á 3 CDs) of Belder´s on-going Scarlatti set. This is nothing less than a relevation, because Belder´s interpretations are much more human and reflective than Scott Ross´, and Belder accordingly finds more depth in these works than Scott Ross, who in these ears often is too efficient (read: superficial).

Sorry, i'm going to have to disagree. Belder isn't anywhere in the same league with Ross, neither technically nor in his interpretation. I think you are confusing mannerism with depth.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Harry on October 04, 2008, 12:30:15 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on October 03, 2008, 06:29:59 PM
Sorry, i'm going to have to disagree. Belder isn't anywhere in the same league with Ross, neither technically nor in his interpretation. I think you are confusing mannerism with depth.

I am in full accord with Premont, Belder is in many ways far superior to Scott Ross, a rather nervy kind of fellow. I don't know where you got your knowledge about playing the harpsichord, but if you cannot hear the quality player Belder is, than your knowledge must be zero. "Confusing mannerism with depth", quite a statement my friend, which I would not easily make.
Sorry about that too.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jwinter on November 20, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
I've enjoyed Scarlatti on piano for quite a while -- I have Horowitz, Tipo, Pletnev, and the first 9 volumes of Naxos' set with various pianists -- and would now like to pick up one of the complete sets on harpsichord for contrast.

So -- Scott Ross, Belder on Brilliant, or someone else?  Has anyone heard both of these sets and can compare?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on November 20, 2008, 12:27:10 PM
Quote from: jwinter on November 20, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
I've enjoyed Scarlatti on piano for quite a while -- I have Horowitz, Tipo, Pletnev, and the first 9 volumes of Naxos' set with various pianists -- and would now like to pick up one of the complete sets on harpsichord for contrast.

So -- Scott Ross, Belder on Brilliant, or someone else?  Has anyone heard both of these sets and can compare?

I find Ross exhibits greater fantasy and variety of texture than Belder who is rather cautious.  Haven't heard the Lester recordings.

For those who are not interested in a giant box of Scarlatti, I recommend the BIS disc from Sudbin and Hantai's recordings on Mirare.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jwinter on November 21, 2008, 10:16:11 AM
Quote from: Bulldog on November 20, 2008, 12:27:10 PM
I find Ross exhibits greater fantasy and variety of texture than Belder who is rather cautious.  Haven't heard the Lester recordings.

For those who are not interested in a giant box of Scarlatti, I recommend the BIS disc from Sudbin and Hantai's recordings on Mirare.

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on November 21, 2008, 10:22:09 AM
I thank you, too, Don.  There won't be a giant Scarlatti box in my near future  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: mn dave on November 21, 2008, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2008, 10:22:09 AM
I thank you, too, Don.  There won't be a giant Scarlatti box in my near future  :)

Unless we change his name to Scarlattiev.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on November 21, 2008, 10:26:21 AM
Domenico is from my grandma's home town.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on November 21, 2008, 10:48:05 AM
Has anyone heard the two CDs from Alain Planes? He does not use a harpsichord, but a form of a early piano the sound of which I like.
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3121906
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on November 21, 2008, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 21, 2008, 10:22:09 AM
I thank you, too, Don.  There won't be a giant Scarlatti box in my near future  :)

I've never acquired a giant box of any composer's music - that's overload for me.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 21, 2008, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on November 20, 2008, 12:27:10 PM
I find Ross exhibits greater fantasy and variety of texture than Belder who is rather cautious.  Haven't heard the Lester recordings.

For those who are not interested in a giant box of Scarlatti, I recommend the BIS disc from Sudbin and Hantai's recordings on Mirare.

Don - thanks for support of the Hantai on harpsichord - has been on my 'want list' for an introduction to Scarlatti on this instrument, and also a recently praised Fanfare recommendation!   Dave  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on November 21, 2008, 11:36:54 PM
Quote from: opus67 on November 21, 2008, 10:48:05 AM
Has anyone heard the two CDs from Alain Planes? He does not use a harpsichord, but a form of a early piano the sound of which I like.
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3121906

I think he offers great musicianship, but there is of course a certain lack of that kind of elegance, which only can be realized on a harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on November 21, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
Quote from: premont on November 21, 2008, 11:36:54 PM
I think he offers great musicianship, but there is of course a certain lack of that kind of elegance, which only can be realized on a harpsichord.

So, those sonatas were not written for an early piano, then?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on November 22, 2008, 12:08:26 AM
Quote from: opus67 on November 21, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
So, those sonatas were not written for an early piano, then?

Well, maybe as a secondary option, and if you, like me, like the sound of the pianoforte, you may be very satisfied with Planes.

But all, I can say, is, that I find, they are better realized on a harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Kullervo on December 15, 2008, 05:56:16 AM
I'm interested in hearing Scarlatti's harpsichord pieces, but not willing to pay upwards of $100 for a complete set (even if it were a third that price I wouldn't want it). With a first recording I am really only interested in how it sounds and how well it is recorded (this seems especially important with the harpsichord). Any comments on these single-disc sets? Have I overlooked anyone?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DRCQRHMJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ag-ADnrsL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5108VFJCPpL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518kF64n4oL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on December 15, 2008, 06:07:27 AM
Pierre Hantai's recordings on Mirare are a must-have, but you might find the premium price a bit much.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 15, 2008, 07:03:27 AM
Quote from: Bulldog on December 15, 2008, 06:07:27 AM
Pierre Hantai's recordings on Mirare are a must-have, but you might find the premium price a bit much.

Agreed. And so is his single Scarlatti CD for Astreé.

Scott Ross is robust and energetic, certainly a must.

The recordings of the more reflective Pieter-Jan Belder (Brilliant) can be acquired in cheap 3CD boxes.

The single CDs by Gustav Leonhardt and Trevor Pinnock are worth considering.

I am less sure about Dantone and Baiano (seem to me more like acquired preferences).

I have never heard the Kipnis, Newman nor the Tilney.
Would expect Newman to be rather superficial and self-indulgent, and Tilney to be more introvert, concentrating on beautiful sound.





Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Harry on December 15, 2008, 07:10:54 AM
Quote from: premont on December 15, 2008, 07:03:27 AM
Agreed. And so is his single Scarlatti CD for Op 111.


The recordings of the more reflective Pieter-Jan Belder (Brilliant) can be acquired in cheap 3CD boxe



Bundled together in one box, since September, and in my eyes the best buy. Scott Ross is simply to nervous for me.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 15, 2008, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: Harry on December 15, 2008, 07:10:54 AM
Bundled together in one box, since September, and in my eyes the best buy. Scott Ross is simply to nervous for me.

But Corey wrote, that he did not want a complete set, not even for $100/3, so my intention was to tell him, that he do not need to purchase the entire Belder set.

Scott Ross has got his virtues, but I prefer to listen to him in small doses.

And my best recommendation would be identical with yours:  Go and get the complete Belder box.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Kullervo on December 15, 2008, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: premont on December 15, 2008, 10:35:45 AM
But Corey wrote, that he did not want a complete set, not even for $100/3, so my intention was to tell him, that he do not need to purchase the entire Belder set.

Scott Ross has got his virtues, but I prefer to listen to him in small doses.

And my best recommendation would be identical with yours:  Go and get the complete Belder box.

I might, if I like them enough — I just don't want to be stuck with a box set that I never listen to, or (as is very often the case for me in baroque music) may like only in small doses.

I think I will go with the Ross set for now.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on December 15, 2008, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: Corey on December 15, 2008, 05:56:16 AM
I'm interested in hearing Scarlatti's harpsichord pieces, but not willing to pay upwards of $100 for a complete set (even if it were a third that price I wouldn't want it). With a first recording I am really only interested in how it sounds and how well it is recorded (this seems especially important with the harpsichord). Any comments on these single-disc sets? Have I overlooked anyone?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DRCQRHMJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ag-ADnrsL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5108VFJCPpL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518kF64n4oL._SS400_.jpg)


The Kipnis is okay.  Certainly not my favorite for anything anymore because of the instrument which is an old Landowska style iron harpsichord.  Part of the pleasure of the harpsichord is in the instrument so if you are playing something that sounds as if it came from outer space rather than the 17th or 18th centuries, it becomes a very different experience.

The Ross is excellent, although the sound is a bit dated (early digital days).  I'm less familiar with the Tilney and Newman recordings.  I haven't gotten the Dantone recording yet, but I am interested in that as I do like his WTC.  If you are only going to get a few single cds of Scarlatti, then I think the newer Hantaï recordings would be the way to go.  Unfortunately, they are pricey. :(
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 15, 2008, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on December 15, 2008, 06:07:27 AM
Pierre Hantai's recordings on Mirare are a must-have, but you might find the premium price a bit much.

Don & Others - despite my large CD collection I have a limited collection of Scarlatti's Sonatas only on piano - I've been buying & enjoying 'harpsichord recordings' recently of Handel, Couperin, et al, so would like to explore Domenico's works, but there are SO MANY - now, I'm not one to desire 'multiple' interpretations (one or two excellent ones would be fine) - I own some Hantai in Couperin's works which I love, so is this performer one of the best top choices in Scarlatti?  Thanks all - Dave  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Daverz on December 15, 2008, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on December 15, 2008, 06:07:27 AM
Pierre Hantai's recordings on Mirare are a must-have, but you might find the premium price a bit much.

There's a cheap Hantai Scarlatti CD at BRO (http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/search.php?row=0&brocode=134363&stocknum=&submit=Find+Item&text=&filter=all).  Don't know how it compares to the Mirare, which, wonder of wonders, I found at Borders.

One of my favorite Scarlatti recitals on CD was by Maggie Cole (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//CDSAR27.htm).  And I love Sgrizzi's Scarlatti on an old Nonesuch Lp (issued on an Accord CD that I don't find as enjoyable to listen to), though that is played on a monster harpsichord, I believe.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on December 15, 2008, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Corey on December 15, 2008, 05:56:16 AM
I'm interested in hearing Scarlatti's harpsichord pieces, but not willing to pay upwards of $100 for a complete set (even if it were a third that price I wouldn't want it). With a first recording I am really only interested in how it sounds and how well it is recorded (this seems especially important with the harpsichord). Any comments on these single-disc sets? Have I overlooked anyone?

I would go for the Scott Ross, and see if you like his super-brilliant approach. I have the complete set and that's still a favourite with me.  :)

I'm not a fan of Pieter-Jan Belder's deliberateness. Long time since I heard Pierre Hantaï, and that was his Naïve recording and not on Mirare. Thought it to be quirky at the time but might see things different now.

Ottavio Dantone's Scarlatti is not as special as his Bach, if to be judged by the one disc a recently got. Enrico Baiano's ultra-free, quixotic style is an acquired taste, for sure!

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: ezodisy on December 16, 2008, 12:29:36 AM
Quote from: Corey on December 15, 2008, 05:56:16 AM
I'm interested in hearing Scarlatti's harpsichord pieces

try Youtube. That way the only thing you'll lose will be your hearing.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on December 16, 2008, 08:43:51 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on December 15, 2008, 05:12:40 PM
Don & Others - despite my large CD collection I have a limited collection of Scarlatti's Sonatas only on piano - I've been buying & enjoying 'harpsichord recordings' recently of Handel, Couperin, et al, so would like to explore Domenico's works, but there are SO MANY - now, I'm not one to desire 'multiple' interpretations (one or two excellent ones would be fine) - I own some Hantai in Couperin's works which I love, so is this performer one of the best top choices in Scarlatti?  Thanks all - Dave  :D

First, while I adore collecting complete sets by single artists, perhaps to start you should sample different artists' takes on the works.  That way you can see how varied his music can sound depending on the sensibility interpreting the music.

Hantaï is one of the top harpsichordists in the world, which makes anything he has recorded of interest.  This earliest Scarlatti recording (which is currently on sale at arkivmusic as well) might be a good starting point as it is less expensive than his newer mirare recordings.  His youthful play was more straightforward as in his first recording of the Goldbergs which were recorded around the same time.  As I recall, there is a great 5 cd set of his recordings that include the Scarlatti from Astree that I picked up very inexpensively at amazon a couple of years back.  That included works by Bach (harpsichord concertos BWV 1044,1052, 1054), Bull (Dr. Bull's Good Night), Frescobaldi and Telemann as well as the single Scarlatti disc.  It's still available at amazon for about $35.00, and a great bargain if you can see your way to spending the extra $$$.  Another interesting alternative is Christophe Rousset's lone Scarlatti recording which is also quite good (used the Hemsch).  I haven't listened to it in years, but I do remember enjoying it a few years back.  That recording is actually oop, but copies are still available for sale very inexpensively.  The third cd which is also available is the DG reissue of Trevor Pinnock's Scarlatti (also at budget prices under $5.00).  That too would be a good starting point, although Pinnock is very "English" in his approach to Scarlatti -- no flights of fancy although he does put some fire in the more quickly paced essersizii.  Although there are no album notes with the Pinnock, they can be downloaded at the DG Al Fresco website with the code provided in the digipack under the cd.  If you decide to opt for the more expensive Mirare Hantaï discs, Vol 2 starts with the Fuga K.58 which is one of my favorite Scarlatti pieces.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413TQB6QMBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514J5YZRW4L._SS500_.jpg)  (http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/39/1004639.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E4NJEQ1ML._SS500_.jpg)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Drasko on December 17, 2008, 09:38:42 AM
Quote from: Daverz on December 15, 2008, 07:16:50 PM
There's a cheap Hantai Scarlatti CD at BRO (http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/search.php?row=0&brocode=134363&stocknum=&submit=Find+Item&text=&filter=all).  Don't know how it compares to the Mirare, which, wonder of wonders, I found at Borders.

Well, it does say Ambroisie but catalogue number MIR9918 is catalogue number of first volume of Hantai's Mirare discs (and number of sonatas and total timing fits), I'd guess misprint on the label part.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on December 17, 2008, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: Drasko on December 17, 2008, 09:38:42 AM
Well, it does say Ambroisie but catalogue number MIR9918 is catalogue number of first volume of Hantai's Mirare discs (and number of sonatas and total timing fits), I'd guess misprint on the label part.

Mirare is part of the same recording group as Ambroisie, Alpha, Alia Vox, Astree, Naive, Arcana, Andante, Ars Musica, Audite, et al. so it's not surprising that BRO lists them together.  What's really nice is that the cd, which is actually an SACD is available so cheaply!  In fact, I'm jealous that because I already have the cd I can't take advantage of the bargain :o

That is definitely a must have disc for anyone who loves Scarlatti, and appreciates Hantaï's artistry.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on December 17, 2008, 10:53:39 PM
Scarlatti/Hantai available for $12 (14 if you include shipping) here (http://prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=hantai+scarlatti).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 18, 2008, 07:47:08 AM
Quote from: opus67 on December 17, 2008, 10:53:39 PM
Scarlatti/Hantai available for $12 (14 if you include shipping) here (http://prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=hantai+scarlatti).

Opus67 - thanks for the link above; just ordered the three Hantai CDs @ $12/each - $6 total shipping to the USA - I can certainly 'live with' those prices considering the rave reviews of this series - Dave  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on December 18, 2008, 09:03:56 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on December 18, 2008, 07:47:08 AM
Opus67 - thanks for the link above; just ordered the three Hantai CDs @ $12/each - $6 total shipping to the USA - I can certainly 'live with' those prices considering the rave reviews of this series - Dave  :)

You're welcome. :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on December 23, 2008, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: premont on December 23, 2008, 08:16:39 AM
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/36794.jpg)
This is the one I own too. I am not sure, that I like his style with this composer. Does it get better with time (repeated listening)? Do you intend to acquire Vol.I.?

Yes, it does get better - I liked it right from the start, but there is more to discover. Definitely will get vol.1.
But, as you quite appropriately remarked before: these are highly individual, brilliant and very free, quixotic interpretations.
I guess Enrico Baiano is the Italian counterpart of Christophe Rousset of sorts.

I've noticed that in harpsichord players you lean, unlike me, more towards the "Leonhardt School": Leonhardt himself (naturally  ;D), Borgstede, Belder, Gilbert, Moroney. Harpsichordists I generally do not prefer.
So, it might just be that on Baiano our tastes do not match! :)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on December 23, 2008, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 08:47:27 AM
I've noticed that in harpsichord players you lean, unlike me, more towards the "Leonhardt School": Leonhardt himself (naturally  ;D), Borgstede, Belder, Gilbert, Moroney. Harpsichordists I generally do not prefer.
Q

I read somewhere that Belder was a student of Bob van Asperen. ???

Never mind that. I obviously mistook 'school' for 'a direct pupil of.' Sorry.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: opus67 on November 21, 2008, 10:48:05 AM
Has anyone heard the two CDs from Alain Planes? He does not use a harpsichord, but a form of a early piano the sound of which I like.
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3121906

" So, those sonatas were not written for an early piano, then? "
Yes. I've heard that CD - - and it's quite pleasant. (I wrote a review of it, here (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html):

"Here now is further proof that the twangy transition bastard, that twilight creature of keyboard development, presents in itself some very pleasing characteristics. It better, too, because there is no historical claim to interpretive accuracy to playing the Essercizi K.1-30 of Scarlatti on a fortepiano... much less one that is, like Planès' Schantz, from circa 1800. ")

No, it wasn't written for an early piano. We don't know if Scarlatti ever encountered forte-pianos, and it is not likely he ever wrote for it. Certainly not these early works, though. That said, it's an intriguing, even lovely disc of Scarlatti.
-------------------------------------------

Favorite Scarlatti:

Piano:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31dlv4O2APL._SL160_AA115_.jpg)   (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005IA25/weta909-20)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NY3VFA36L._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001GGV/weta909-20)    (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Y58A7WZL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000WH5AYC/weta909-20)

Mikhail Pletnev (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/02/dip-your-ears-no-26.html), Virgin [perhaps the best Scarlatti recording there is. Period. And so cheap, it's an absolute must-have bargain.]

Ivo Pogorelich (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/dip-your-ears-no-3.html), DG [Not up to Pletnev, me thinks, but almost. One of Pogo's very best recordings.]

Yevgeni Sudbin (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/11/dip-your-ears-no-85.html), BIS [One of my favorite recordings in 2007 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=227), this is the piano-Scarlatti recording to rival Pletnev... SACD-hybrid and of course at BIS-price it's a tad more an investment. Very much worth it, though.

Harpsichord:

Complete Sets:

Scott Ross' Box (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/12/best-recordings-of-2005.html) made it to the top spot of my 2005 "Best of" list, but it's a *lot* of Scarlatti.

From that blurb: "Scott Ross is one of the few to have traversed every single one of those 555 sonatas (alas, he sadly did not live to tell the tale - Scott Ross died in 1989, aged 38, from AIDS-related causes) - and it is not the accomplishment of having done that, but the accomplishment with which he did it, that makes this set so tremendous. His art can be sampled on the single disc of Les Plus Belles Sonates (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005E6V/musicweb-20)."

Pieter-Jan Balder recorded all the sonatas for Brilliant (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0011367KM/weta909-20). I reviewed the last three three-disc sets of that (now complete) set here (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/02/some-scarlatti.html). Good stuff - probably better than my conclusion (of the clunky plastic sets, not the new, space saving paper-box cube) makes it seem:

"Yes, more color and more variety might have served Belder well. A more spirited and individual approach to the sonatas would have livened up matters here and there. For that, the Scarlatti aficionado will have to go elsewhere, which he or she might as well. For getting to know more Scarlatti sonatas at a 'nice-price', Belder is an obvious choice. Another quibble, though: The liner notes are pathetic (the same two-page fold-out in each set), even for the money-saving Brilliant Classics standards. The layout is as ugly as most of the Brilliant discs were ten years ago (when the series got under way). To make these recordings attractive to a much wider group of potential buyers Brilliant should strongly consider re-issuing the set in twelve or nine slim paper boxes and somewhat spruced-up liner notes. Just like their "Scottish Songs of Haydn" collection, for example."


Single discs:

I don't love Kipnis, really... and I've been a bit disappointed by the "Best of" disc by Richard Lester (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00165QOOY/weta909-20) [a compilation from his complete cycle on Nimbus]... but I find it difficult to pin down just why. I suppose I miss playfulness and an element of surprise in his interpretations.

I grew up on my uncle's Scarlatti recordings (on a harpsichord - still on Vinyl from a small Swiss label) - and they had etched themselves into my understand of what Scarlatti ought to be. So it took me quite a some time until I found Scarlatti on harpsichord that was not only good but really impressive. The above mentioned and linked-to Scott Ross Highlights CD is one of them. But even better are the four Hantai discs! I don't care if he makes a complete set... I just want to hear as much of whatever sonatas he thinks are worth playing, played as well as he does, on as good-sounding an instrument as he plays. He is to Scarlatti what Rousset is to Bach on the harpsichord. [The Ambroise recordings of Rousset, not Decca.]

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/217EEHHEB6L._AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006B1O7/weta909-20)____(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E4NJEQ1ML._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OQBV6/weta909-20)____(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Q2J3R1N7L._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BUCW6O/weta909-20)____(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PDDZFC3BL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DETBG/weta909-20)


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on December 23, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 10:46:32 AM
We don't know if Scarlatti ever encountered forte-pianos, and it is not likely he ever wrote for it. Certainly not these early works, though. That said, it's an intriguing, even lovely disc of Scarlatti.

Since Scarlatti's employer, Queen Maria Barbara of Spain owned no less than five early fortepiano's (according to Ralph Kirkpatrick), it seems quite unlikely that he would never have encountered that instrument.

Whether he wrote for the fortepiano, is of course another matter.
His sonatas sound awfully good on harpsichord though! :)

I wholeheartedly agree with you on Scott Ross (and a lot of Scarlatti is fine by me! 8)), also on your view on Pieter-Jan Belder.
But quite disagree on the choises for piano: Pletnev is absolutely horrible IMO, don't like Pogorelich either, haven't heard Sudbin. Where is Horowitz?! :o :)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 23, 2008, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
Since Scarlatti's employer, Queen Maria Barbara of Spain owned no less than five early fortepiano's (according to Ralph Kirkpatrick), it seems quite unlikely that he would never have encountered that instrument.

His sonatas sound awfully good on harpsichord though! :)

But quite disagree on the choises for piano: Pletnev is absolutely horrible IMO, don't like Pogorelich either, haven't heard Sudbin. Where is Horowitz?! :o :)


Q - I enjoyed reading the post by jlaurson, i.e. the piano versions w/ Pletnev & Sudbin are the ones that I own currently; the Pletnev recordings have received superlative reviews, including a keyed 3* rating in the newest '09 Penguin Guide - at the price for 2-CDs, this is a set hard to ignore, esp. as an introduction; as for the Sudbin, you must give this disc a listen - don't believe that I've seen a negative comment!

Now, I've just ordered the Hantai 3 CDs on harpsichord because of the many recommendations here, esp. by Don - I expect these to be superlative - I hope this will be true because I have bought/sold/culled so many piano & harpsichord discs of these works over the years - would like to just get down to a 'nice' collection, and don't need all 550+ versions of these works - too much other music to hear!  ;)  Dave  ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
Since Scarlatti's employer, Queen Maria Barbara of Spain owned no less than five early fortepiano's (according to Ralph Kirkpatrick), it seems quite unlikely that he would never have encountered that instrument.

Good point. (When did those instruments enter the collection, though, I wonder. I haven't the material handy to look that up, I am afraid.

Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
Whether he wrote for the fortepiano, is of course another matter.
His sonatas sound awfully good on harpsichord though! :)
Yeah, not half bad.

(Here  (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2008/Mar08/scarlatti_5181862.htm)is a longer review of the Pletnev/Scarlatti disc.)

Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 01:17:37 PM
But quite disagree on the choises for piano: Pletnev is absolutely horrible IMO, don't like Pogorelich either, haven't heard Sudbin. Where is Horowitz?! :o :)

Well, then we must - shockingly - disagree. But I not only think that Pletnev/Scarlatti is the best Scarlatti on piano, I think it's the best Pletnev recording (which may mean nothing to a lot of people) and it is one of the ten best solo piano recordings I own. And that is saying something. And I've found very few (none, come to think of it) who didn't also fall in love with it after hearing it. I worked at Tower Records, once upon a time, and I made a point of playing that album a lot. I sold upward of 600 copies in the time I was there; easy ten times more than we sold of other "bestsellers". Horowitz, sure... I dig, too. :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 23, 2008, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 10:46:32 AM
I grew up on my uncle's Scarlatti recordings (on a harpsichord - still on Vinyl from a small Swiss label) - and it they had etched myself into my understanding of what Scarlatti ought to be.

Could this be Luciano Sgrizzi?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on December 23, 2008, 03:41:17 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 03:01:35 PM
I worked at Tower Records, once upon a time, and I made a point of playing that album a lot. I sold upward of 600 copies in the time I was there; easy ten times more than we sold of other "bestsellers". Horowitz, sure... I dig, too. :)

Ahhh, you're evoking some nostalgia with me as well. :)
I also worked in a music shop once - and frequently played Horowitz' Scarlatti. Like in your case with Pletnev, it sold every time I played it. Goes to show the unique qualities of Domenico! :)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on December 23, 2008, 11:27:59 PM
Quote from: premont on December 23, 2008, 03:02:14 PM
Could this be Luciano Sgrizzi?
Turnabout? Anyway, the name evokes memories. Must go on some major archeological excavations somewhere in my collection. My first exposure to Scarlatti IIRC.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Daverz on December 23, 2008, 11:31:20 PM
Quote from: erato on December 23, 2008, 11:27:59 PM
Turnabout? Anyway, the name evokes memories. Must go on some major archeological excavations somewhere in my collection. My first exposure to Scarlatti IIRC.

It appeared on Nonesuch in the US, and on CD on the Accord label.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Opus106 on December 24, 2008, 06:00:49 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 23, 2008, 10:46:32 AM
Yes. I've heard that CD - - and it's quite pleasant. (I wrote a review of it, here (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html):

"Here now is further proof that the twangy transition bastard, that twilight creature of keyboard development, presents in itself some very pleasing characteristics. It better, too, because there is no historical claim to interpretive accuracy to playing the Essercizi K.1-30 of Scarlatti on a fortepiano... much less one that is, like Planès' Schantz, from circa 1800. ")

No, it wasn't written for an early piano. We don't know if Scarlatti ever encountered forte-pianos, and it is not likely he ever wrote for it. Certainly not these early works, though. That said, it's an intriguing, even lovely disc of Scarlatti.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that recording, jlaurson. :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on December 24, 2008, 08:24:50 AM
Scarlatti on piano?  Definitely, included in my favorites is Alexis Weissenberg's cd which is long out of print but finally on demand at Arkivmusic.com. 

It's got a negative rating at amazon because the arkiv cd reviewed skipped.  Hopefully, that was an anomaly.

Sorry, but I don't know how to edit attachments so that they appear a little smaller. :o
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 24, 2008, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 08:47:27 AM
Yes, it does get better - I liked it right from the start, but there is more to discover. Definitely will get vol.1.
But, as you quite appropriately remarked before: these are highly individual, brilliant and very free, quixotic interpretations.
I guess Enrico Baiano is the Italian counterpart of Christophe Rousset of sorts.

More like a counterpart of Pierre Hantaï I would say. Rousset is in these ears much to civilized and traditional to deserve mentioning along with a free-styler like Baiano. Nevertheless I shall go on listening to Baiano and even acquire Vol I.

Quote from: Que on December 23, 2008, 08:47:27 AM
I've noticed that in harpsichord players you lean, unlike me, more towards the "Leonhardt School": Leonhardt himself (naturally  ;D), Borgstede, Belder, Gilbert, Moroney. Harpsichordists I generally do not prefer.

"Leonhardt school"? Well, the first I would think of are Alan Curtis and Glen Wilson and maybe Robert Hill. And also Pierre Hantaï who sometimes turns the Leonhardt style into extremes. I think Belder and Gilbert (who have got a lot of stylistical features in common) are too modest in their expressive means to be true members of the Leonhardt school.

Generally I prefer an individual interpretation, but not at any cost (not the cost of the CD but at the expence of style of interpretation). In my opinion Leonardt offers the most consistently stylish and individual interpretation of our days, but the great number of his imitators makes one forget how original and individual he really is.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on December 24, 2008, 10:54:32 AM
Quote from: premont on December 24, 2008, 10:11:21 AM
"Leonhardt school"? Well, the first I would think of are Alan Curtis and Glen Wilson and maybe Robert Hill. And also Pierre Hantaï who sometimes turns the Leonhardt style into extremes. I think Belder and Gilbert (who have got a lot of stylistical features in common) are too modest in their expressive means to be true members of the Leonhardt school.

Generally I prefer an individual interpretation, but not at any cost (not the cost of the CD but at the expence of style of interpretation). In my opinion Leonardt offers the most consistently stylish and individual interpretation of our days, but the great number of his imitators makes one forget how original and individual he really is.

Oh well, but I do like Curtis, Wilson and Hill! :)
And can - in an way - appreciate the old master himself. But... he does not - ultimately - tickles my imagination to full satisfaction. 8) He is stylish indeed but also (a bit) stern.. ::)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Daverz on January 08, 2009, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: Drasko on December 17, 2008, 09:38:42 AM
Well, it does say Ambroisie but catalogue number MIR9918 is catalogue number of first volume of Hantai's Mirare discs (and number of sonatas and total timing fits), I'd guess misprint on the label part.

Yup, just got my BRO order.  It's volume 1 of Hantaï's Mirarae series.  I guess Ambroisie is the parent label.  They still have it for $7:

http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/search.php?row=0&brocode=134363
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on January 11, 2009, 10:58:02 AM
Quote from: Daverz on January 08, 2009, 04:33:25 PM
Yup, just got my BRO order.  It's volume 1 of Hantaï's Mirarae series.  I guess Ambroisie is the parent label.  They still have it for $7:

http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/search.php?row=0&brocode=134363

I recently pulled out my cd of Hantaï's second recording of the Goldberg variations.  While the digipak is marked only Mirare,  the cd is marked "Ambroisie" and "Mirare."   

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B67Y1TDGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 11:11:04 AM
Quote from: Bunny on May 25, 2009, 10:42:57 AM
???
Who doesn't do much for you?  Scarlatti, or Weissenberg playing Scarlatti?  ???

Scarlatti.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 11:15:46 AM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 11:11:04 AM
Scarlatti.

I like D. Scarlatti, though many of my recordings are performance on piano instead of on harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 11:21:59 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 11:15:46 AM


I like D. Scarlatti, though many of my recordings are performance on piano instead of on harpsichord.

I didn't say that I did not like his music.  I just don't go out of my way to acquire it.  Most of my Scarlatti discs come either from MusicWeb or a friend in Moline, Illinois - about three months ago he sent me 15 Scarlatti discs (mix of piano and harpsichord).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 11:30:11 AM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 11:21:59 AM
I didn't say that I did not like his music.  I just don't go out of my way to acquire it.  Most of my Scarlatti discs come either from MusicWeb or a friend in Moline, Illinois - about three months ago he sent me 15 Scarlatti discs (mix of piano and harpsichord).

In a way, Scarlatti is much overshadowed by his contemporaries such as Bach, Handel and Vivaldi.  I have a hard time justfying getting this set of 36 CD's of harpsichord music.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Ya7Eo-wLL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 25, 2009, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 11:30:11 AM
 

In a way, Scarlatti is much overshadowed by his contemporaries such as Bach, Handel and Vivaldi.  I have a hard time justfying getting this set of 36 CD's of harpsichord music.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Ya7Eo-wLL._SS500_.jpg)

Scarlatti is a very much under appreciated composer.  His music plays as well on piano as on harpsichord, and it also works especially well transcribed for one or two guitars.  Sorry but I don't have the Belder set, and am unfamiliar with him so I can't tell you whether I think his set is worth the money.  I have the Scott Ross set which has gotten way too expensive now. 

Another good option are the Pierre Hantaï volumes which turn up at BRO on occasion.  Hantaï's Scarlatti is first rate.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 11:30:11 AM
 

In a way, Scarlatti is much overshadowed by his contemporaries such as Bach, Handel and Vivaldi. 

I'll take Scarlatti over Vivaldi any day of the week.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 02:33:25 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on May 25, 2009, 02:25:58 PM
I'll take Scarlatti over Vivaldi any day of the week.

We all have different tastes.  I enjoy my Vivaldi collection, which obviously goes well beyond Le Quattro Stagioni ...     ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on May 26, 2009, 12:26:54 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 25, 2009, 02:33:25 PM
We all have different tastes.  I enjoy my Vivaldi collection, which obviously goes well beyond Le Quattro Stagioni ...     ;D


I am glad a choice between them is not necessary - they didn't usually compose in the same categories anyway. (Although I must admit that Domenico's vocal works are currently under-recorded.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 27, 2009, 10:24:17 AM
Quote from: traverso on May 26, 2009, 12:26:54 AM
I am glad a choice between them is not necessary - they didn't usually compose in the same categories anyway. (Although I must admit that Domenico's vocal works are currently under-recorded.)

Unlike his father, Alessandro whose vocal works are more completely recorded. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on May 27, 2009, 01:09:34 PM
Quote from: Bunny on May 27, 2009, 10:24:17 AM
Unlike his father, Alessandro whose vocal works are more completely recorded. 

On the other hand, Alessandro´s harpsichord works are under-recorded.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 27, 2009, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: premont on May 27, 2009, 01:09:34 PM
On the other hand, Alessandro´s harpsichord works are under-recorded.

Indeed.  ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 27, 2009, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: premont on May 27, 2009, 01:09:34 PM
On the other hand, Alessandro´s harpsichord works are under-recorded.

Quote from: Bunny on May 27, 2009, 03:24:40 PM
Indeed.  ;)

Boy, I hope that these Scarlattis' did not have a bunch of siblings & nephews!  :D  This discussion could go on forever -  ;) ;D  Dave
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 27, 2009, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on May 27, 2009, 03:33:34 PM
Boy, I hope that these Scarlattis' did not have a bunch of siblings & nephews!  :D  This discussion could go on forever -  ;) ;D  Dave

The Scarlatti's were no match for the Bachs in terms of the number of composers produced by the respective clans ...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on May 29, 2009, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 27, 2009, 05:34:22 PM
 

The Scarlatti's were no match for the Bachs in terms of the number of composers produced by the respective clans ...

Unfortunately, most other Bach's than JS and sons have currently been under-recorded.   ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 29, 2009, 08:21:52 PM
Quote from: traverso on May 29, 2009, 08:01:05 PM
Unfortunately, most other Bach's than JS and sons have currently been under-recorded.   ;)

I like JC Bach and enjoyed this 5 CD-set ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4180MVMFQ2L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on May 29, 2009, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 29, 2009, 08:21:52 PM


I like JC Bach and enjoyed this 5 CD-set ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4180MVMFQ2L._SS500_.jpg)

Yes but this JC, if I am not mistaken, is one of JS's sons....
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on May 29, 2009, 08:32:42 PM
Quote from: traverso on May 29, 2009, 08:25:19 PM
Yes but this JC, if I am not mistaken, is one of JS's sons....

Indeed, Johann Christian Bach was the most accomplished of all JS Bach's sons.  I believe JC Bach also settled in London and became famous there just like GF Handel ...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on May 29, 2009, 11:32:13 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on May 29, 2009, 08:32:42 PM
 

Indeed, Johann Christian Bach was the most accomplished of all JS Bach's sons.  I believe JC Bach also settled in London and became famous there just like GF Handel ...

I believe Traverso was talking about recordings of Bach that are not by J.S. or any of his sons.
And in any case, clearly Johann Phillip Heinrich Bernhard Bach was the most accomplished, albeit not in the field of composing but butchery.
They still talk of his sausages today, in Leipzig. Some say--you can overhear this every so often--that what J.P.H.B. Bach did with Venison
Sausage equaled or surpassed his Father's work on the Mass in B-minor. But that's a little difficult to ascertain, really, given that very few
of J.P.H.B. Bach's original recipes have survived in their original form. Much of it had to be reconstructed from other "Metzgers" sausage
parodies.
Still, I think you would only have to take one bite of one of his late concoctions (roughly JPHB-Bach Würste Verzeichniss
nos. 189 - 244) to acknowledge that J.C. Bach had nothing on him.

Cheers,

jfl
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on May 30, 2009, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on May 29, 2009, 11:32:13 PM
I believe Traverso was talking about recordings of Bach that are not by J.S. or any of his sons.
And in any case, clearly Johann Phillip Heinrich Bernhard Bach was the most accomplished, albeit not in the field of composing but butchery.
They still talk of his sausages today, in Leipzig. Some say--you can overhear this every so often--that what J.P.H.B. Bach did with Venison
Sausage equaled or surpassed his Father's work on the Mass in B-minor. But that's a little difficult to ascertain, really, given that very few
of J.P.H.B. Bach's original recipes have survived in their original form. Much of it had to be reconstructed from other "Metzgers" sausage
parodies.
Still, I think you would only have to take one bite of one of his late concoctions (roughly JPHB-Bach Würste Verzeichniss
nos. 189 - 244) to acknowledge that J.C. Bach had nothing on him.

Cheers,

jfl

That's a heck of lot of BIG sausage to swallow! >:D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ciel_Rouge on June 27, 2009, 05:43:24 PM
Coming back on the subject of Scarlatti sonatas, any chance this was recorded?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcsRl_LIJHA
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on June 27, 2009, 06:11:33 PM
Quote from: Ciel_Rouge on June 27, 2009, 05:43:24 PM
Coming back on the subject of Scarlatti sonatas, any chance this was recorded?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcsRl_LIJHA


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QRFNP27VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Scarlatti, K141 (among many other things)
Argerich, Concertgebouw '78, '79
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004LCAR/goodmusicguide-20)

I can't tell you for sure that these are the same performances--but at the very least they are the same piece and roughly from the same time (judging by how she looks in the video.) There's only one other recording of her of K141 that I know of... a Polish concert where the Scarlatti is the encore.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on June 29, 2009, 11:12:38 AM
What is it about this great composer?

So many superb recordings of Scarlatti's sonatas and yet his works are rarely, if ever, programmed in recitals.

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on June 29, 2009, 01:29:37 PM
Neither do I. The few times they have been programmed has usually been as encores. Considering that there are 555 sonatas to choose from, you could easily do half a recital of Scarlatti sonatas and make it very enjoyable.

Scarlatti's pieces range from being virtuosically brillant to tender and emotional. I have no problems sitting down and listening to a whole CD of Scarlatti from the likes of Horowitz, Babayan, Shehori, Zacharias, Meyer, Tomsic and others. If this is the case then it's possible that an audience could happily experience at least half of that live.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on June 29, 2009, 06:45:50 PM
Quote from: Holden on June 29, 2009, 01:29:37 PM
Neither do I. The few times they have been programmed has usually been as encores. Considering that there are 555 sonatas to choose from, you could easily do half a recital of Scarlatti sonatas and make it very enjoyable.

Scarlatti's pieces range from being virtuosically brillant to tender and emotional. I have no problems sitting down and listening to a whole CD of Scarlatti from the likes of Horowitz, Babayan, Shehori, Zacharias, Meyer, Tomsic and others. If this is the case then it's possible that an audience could happily experience at least half of that live.

Hi there, old friend!

You and I have been Scarlatti fans for years! I wonder how many more of us are out there?

Best regards.

HH
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on June 29, 2009, 11:03:24 PM
Quote from: cliftwood on June 29, 2009, 06:45:50 PM
Hi there, old friend!

You and I have been Scarlatti fans for years! I wonder how many more of us are out there?

Best regards.

HH

I guess you'll find them here: Scarlatti sonatas - piano/harpsichord (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6253.0.html)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on June 30, 2009, 06:21:09 AM
Que..

Thanks so much for the telling me about the Scarlatti thread!

My question about interest in the composer has been more than answered! :D

I still am saddened by the infrequency of current pianists to program his sonatas.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on June 30, 2009, 06:32:40 AM
In younger years, she sure was easy on the eyes.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on June 30, 2009, 06:42:53 AM
Quote from: cliftwood on June 30, 2009, 06:21:09 AM
I still am saddened by the infrequency of current pianists to program his sonatas.

Yes, there should be more.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on June 30, 2009, 06:48:48 AM
Quote from: George on June 30, 2009, 06:32:40 AM
In younger years, she sure was easy on the eyes.

...and with a reputation to boot!!!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on June 30, 2009, 08:22:20 AM
Quote from: cliftwood on June 29, 2009, 11:12:38 AM
What is it about this great composer?

So many superb recordings of Scarlatti's sonatas and yet his works are rarely, if ever, programmed in recitals.

I don't get it.

You know, even though Horowitz was fascinated with Scarlatti, I don't think he ever performed an all Scarlatti concert.  He would include a few of the pieces, but he knew that his bread and butter was the romantics and he did give the people what they wanted.  It would be nice to see a larger collection of the Essersizi programmed into a piano recital, but I think it would be more likely to show up in a harpsichord recital at this point.  Aside from expensive "intégrales" on harpsichord, the most recent recordings of Scarlatti on piano that I know of are Sudbin's disc for Bis and Zhu Xiao-mei's OOP disc from about 2000 for INA Memoire Vive which was available in France and Japan, and now only as a download from Amazon or Itunes.  This is meaningful when you realize that most concert artists tour in order to push their most recent cd releases.  If someone else comes out with a cd of Scarlatti on piano which is hopefully not going to be an "encore collection," it becomes more likely that you will get a concert of Scarlatti, so keep your fingers crossed!

Otherwise, Scarlatti's essersizi, as with most shorter piano works, seems to be relegated to the "encore" section of a recital nowadays. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on June 30, 2009, 02:12:05 PM
I think a complete 2 hour recital of Scarlatti might be a bit tough to take for an audience. This has nothing to do with the quality of compositions (which I strongly admire) but the nature of the pieces themselves. They are all relatively short, follow the same ABA structure and are constrained by the limited dynamic range of the keyboards of the time. This sameness of structure and keyboard range could become wearying for many audience members. It would be like going to a concert in which the only works cast were the Chopin Mazurkas - all excellent compositions but again the structure and rhythmic sameness would certainly get to some after a while.

No problem for the aficionados of course. I could easily sit through a complete Scarlatti concert (provided it was someone like Sudbin, Shehori or Babayan at the keyboard) but I feel that many couldn't. Also, it is not  easy to play these apparently simple works well. The temptation for many pianists is to embellish the music with a rubato or series of ritardandos/rallentandos that were never there. (I feel that Pletnev was gulity of this in his much lauded recording and when I auditioned this CD I kept waiting for the music to move forward - it was frustrating.). To keep the flow lines and phrasing that Scarlatti intended and to make the music speak takes quite a bit of talent and maybe this is why a lot of pianists won't program them for fear of producing something that is merely routine.

Just my thoughts on one of my favourite composers.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on June 30, 2009, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: George on June 30, 2009, 06:32:40 AM
In younger years, she sure was easy on the eyes.

Isn't this the case for any woman?     ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The Six on July 01, 2009, 08:53:23 AM
I've actually just started listening to one volume of a complete recording of the sonatas. There are many that are very unique in their keyboard and harmonic technique, especially for that time.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 01, 2009, 09:17:17 AM
Yes, harmony is really one of the greatest elements of his music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas: Volume one on Naxos played by Eteri Andjaparidze. While it's a nice disc highlight being track 12 (sonata in E minor, K.402/L.427/P496) I don't complete get Scarlatti's reputation. Perhaps the performances on that CD just suck? I have been more impressed by the (vocal) compositions of Alessandro Scarlatti. Go figure.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on July 01, 2009, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas: Volume one on Naxos played by Eteri Andjaparidze. While it's a nice disc highlight being track 12 (sonata in E minor, K.402/L.427/P496) I don't complete get Scarlatti's reputation. Perhaps the performances on that CD just suck?

Maybe.  In all events, I should never, ever write any composer off based on the only disc I've listened to having been on the Naxos label. Puh-leeze.

Of course, D. Scarlatti may just not be your thing.  Keep in mind: your not liking a composer, doesn't call that composer's reputation into question. It just means, maybe you don't like the music.

Quote from: PojuI have been more impressed by the (vocal) compositions of Alessandro Scarlatti. Go figure.

Apples & oranges. Go figure.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:32:17 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2009, 10:25:43 AM
Maybe.  In all events, I should never, ever write any composer off based on the only disc I've listened to having been on the Naxos label. Puh-leeze.

Of course, D. Scarlatti may just not be your thing.  Keep in mind: your not liking a composer, doesn't call that composer's reputation into question. It just means, maybe you don't like the music.

I didn't say I don't like D. Scarlatti. I said I haven't been impressed as much as his reputation makes me expect. I haven't wrote him off. I just haven't included him on my top 30 composers.  ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on July 01, 2009, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:32:17 AM
I didn't say I don't like D. Scarlatti. I said I haven't been impressed as much as his reputation makes me expect. I haven't wrote him off. I just haven't included him on my top 30 composers.  ;)

Well, excluding him from a top 30 that includes Dittersdorf . . . .

;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 01, 2009, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2009, 10:43:59 AM
Well, excluding him from a top 30 that includes Dittersdorf . . . .

(http://www.papodebar.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/fuuuuuuuuu.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2009, 10:43:59 AM
Well, excluding him from a top 30 that includes Dittersdorf . . . .

;)

Dittersdorf has impressed me more than D. Scarlatti. Having said that, Dittersdorf too has hard time entering my top 30.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on July 01, 2009, 12:00:46 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas: Volume one on Naxos played by Eteri Andjaparidze. While it's a nice disc highlight being track 12 (sonata in E minor, K.402/L.427/P496) I don't complete get Scarlatti's reputation. Perhaps the performances on that CD just suck? I have been more impressed by the (vocal) compositions of Alessandro Scarlatti. Go figure.



As I said in my post, it is easy to play Scarlatti in a way that makes him sound like just another baroque keyboard composer. Now if you really want to hear Scarlatti played well start with this CD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SKJWMX6BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

....easily acquired from Amazon even though it is OOP. There are other incarnations of these performances on CD that are still in print by Horowitz. Then if you like those then seek out Sudbin, Zacharias on EMI and most of all, Babayan on Pro Piano.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 01, 2009, 02:53:03 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 11:02:09 AM
Dittersdorf has impressed me more than D. Scarlatti. Having said that, Dittersdorf too has hard time entering my top 30.

Scarlatti was a genius. I suggest you start giving his music greater attention, 'cause i'm never wrong about those things.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on July 01, 2009, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas: Volume one on Naxos played by Eteri Andjaparidze. While it's a nice disc highlight being track 12 (sonata in E minor, K.402/L.427/P496) I don't complete get Scarlatti's reputation. Perhaps the performances on that CD just suck?


They don't suck at all.  Eteri plays excellently with a crispness not often found on other Scarlatti discs played on piano; her emotional investment is also impressive.  Maybe you need Scarlatti on harpsichord to "get it".
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 01, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas: Volume one on Naxos played by Eteri Andjaparidze. While it's a nice disc highlight being track 12 (sonata in E minor, K.402/L.427/P496) I don't complete get Scarlatti's reputation. Perhaps the performances on that CD just suck? I have been more impressed by the (vocal) compositions of Alessandro Scarlatti. Go figure.

Poju - I've spent years collecting Scarlatti's Sonatas, dumping many and adding others - don't believe that he's an easy composer to appreciate for many.  Of course, the first choice is whether you want to explore and enjoy/dislike his 555 or so keyboard pieces; the second choice, is whether you want to explore these works on the piano or harpsichord; and finally, regardless of the type of keyboard preferred, what 'personal' interpretations you may enjoy - can be just too much to make a choice -  ;) :D

Currently, I've decided to have both piano & harpsichord CDs - on piano, I own Pletnev & Sudbin, the latter in a one disc selection - recommended if you want to hear a good 'piano version'; on harpsichord, I have the three volumes of Hantai on Mirare - these are quite good and recommended highly - if you do like either of these performances, then maybe Scarlatti is not for you?  Dave  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Y58A7WZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YXZA9R92L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 02, 2009, 04:21:29 AM
Holden & SonicMan: thanks for the recommendations!  0:)

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 01, 2009, 02:53:03 PM
Scarlatti was a genius. I suggest you start giving his music greater attention, 'cause i'm never wrong about those things.

I don't promise anything.

Quote from: Bulldog on July 01, 2009, 05:33:11 PM
They don't suck at all.  Eteri plays excellently with a crispness not often found on other Scarlatti discs played on piano; her emotional investment is also impressive.  Maybe you need Scarlatti on harpsichord to "get it".

I agree about Eteri's performance. I think it's good. Scarlatti's music just isn't as deep as I expected. It's "playful."
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on July 03, 2009, 01:39:36 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 02, 2009, 04:21:29 AM
Scarlatti's music just isn't as deep as I expected. It's "playful."

Playful is good. 8)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on July 03, 2009, 03:49:39 AM
Surgically done, Que!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 03, 2009, 08:06:15 AM
I have this pretty decent recording by Pogo ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NY3VFA36L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ten thumbs on July 06, 2009, 08:16:07 AM
Quote from: Holden on June 30, 2009, 02:12:05 PM
I think a complete 2 hour recital of Scarlatti might be a bit tough to take for an audience. This has nothing to do with the quality of compositions (which I strongly admire) but the nature of the pieces themselves. They are all relatively short, follow the same ABA structure and are constrained by the limited dynamic range of the keyboards of the time. This sameness of structure and keyboard range could become wearying for many audience members. It would be like going to a concert in which the only works cast were the Chopin Mazurkas - all excellent compositions but again the structure and rhythmic sameness would certainly get to some after a while.

Just my thoughts on one of my favourite composers.


Whilst agreeing in general a concert could easily be constructed by arranging a selection of sonatas so as to provide variety. For instance they cover a wide range of keys, some are very quick, others slower and there is plenty of rhythmic variation (much more so than in Chopin's mazurkas).
Incidentally these sonatas are hardly ever in ABA format (is any of them?). The usual form is A+B repeated: development+B repeated.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 02, 2009, 04:21:29 AM
I think it's good. Scarlatti's music just isn't as deep as I expected. It's "playful."

Well, i've read several accounts from those who met Scarlatti and he was described as an exceedingly grave and withdrawn man. His works are very extroverted but if you probe deep enough there's nothing jovial about them. It's a sort of serious playfulness which plunges towards esoteric grounds in his later works. The differences is very subtle but its there.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 06, 2009, 09:15:59 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 08:23:14 AM
Well, i've read several accounts from those who met Scarlatti...

People who read too much doesn't have time to think enough and are in danger to be brainwashed.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 06, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 06, 2009, 09:15:59 AM
People who read too much doesn't have time to think enough and are in danger to be brainwashed.

A real Poju-ism that! Congratulations; you are back on track. :-\

An alternate take of course is that they are in danger of knowing what they are talking about.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 10:01:23 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 06, 2009, 09:15:59 AM
People who read too much doesn't have time to think enough and are in danger to be brainwashed.

I may be wrong, but i don't think Schopenhauer had written facts in mind when he warned on the dangers of reading too much without ever forming your own observations and opinions on things.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 10:53:44 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
I have only one CD of D. Scarlatti's sonatas...
I think you were the first to include even the initial and thus acknowledge that there is more than one Scarlatti! :D Domenico's father Alessandro Scarlatti was also a major composer, although I'm only familiar with some of his lovely wind concertos.

BTW, in style Domenico is as closely related to early Classical-period music as to Baroque music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 06, 2009, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 10:53:44 AM


BTW, in style Domenico is as closely related to early Classical-period music as to Baroque music.
Well, in some ways he is, but all that wonderful, wacky inventiveness could only come out of the baroque.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 11:06:11 AM
Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 11:02:40 AM
Well, in some ways he is, but all that wonderful, wacky inventiveness could only come out of the baroque.
Oh really?  And when was the last time you listened to Haydn's Surprise Symphony? ;D Or any number of other Haydn compositions, BTW; he was a master at confounding expectations. 8)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 06, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 11:06:11 AM
Oh really?  And when was the last time you listened to Haydn's Surprise Symphony? ;D Or any number of other Haydn compositions, BTW; he was a master at confounding expectations. 8)
Well I see your point, and I certainly don't want to suggest that classicism is uninventive (I could also here mention Boccherini), but still Scarlatti's inventiveness to me seems baroque. Perhaps he is just one of those unplaceable between-periods composers, CPE Bach is another one of those who belongs to both eras as well as neither of them, just being their wacky selves.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Well I see your point, and I certainly don't want to suggest that classicism is uninventive (I could also here mention Boccherini), but still Scarlatti's inventiveness to me seems baroque. Perhaps he is just one of those unplaceable between-periods composers, CPE Bach is another one of those who belongs to both eras as well as neither of them, just being their wacky selves.
Fair enough. 8)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on July 06, 2009, 12:03:36 PM
Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 11:13:50 AM
Well I see your point, and I certainly don't want to suggest that classicism is uninventive (I could also here mention Boccherini), but still Scarlatti's inventiveness to me seems baroque. Perhaps he is just one of those unplaceable between-periods composers, CPE Bach is another one of those who belongs to both eras as well as neither of them, just being their wacky selves.

I'd hardly desribe Scarlatti and C.P.E. Bach as wacky. Both of these composers were out front of their time musically and I marvel at the originality of the music they composed.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 06, 2009, 12:05:42 PM
Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
An alternate take of course is that they are in danger of knowing what they are talking about.

That's an ideal situation, a perfect balance between reading and thinking but people often only believe they know what they are talking about. It's best to have an open and humble mind. One day I might understand the genius on D. Scarlatti better but I won't just believe what I read. That would be religious.

Quote from: jochanaan on July 06, 2009, 10:53:44 AM
I think you were the first to include even the initial and thus acknowledge that there is more than one Scarlatti! :D Domenico's father Alessandro Scarlatti was also a major composer, although I'm only familiar with some of his lovely wind concertos.

Yes, and I said Alessandro has impressed me more than Domenico. Alessandro was an expert of vocal chamber music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 06, 2009, 12:07:34 PM
Quote from: cliftwood on July 06, 2009, 12:03:36 PM
I'd hardly desribe Scarlatti and C.P.E. Bach as wacky. Both of these composers were out front of their time musically and I marvel at the originality of the music they composed.
Perhaps there's nuances here I don't catch (English being a second language to me). I interpret wacky as slightly over-the-top original.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on July 06, 2009, 06:17:28 PM
Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 12:07:34 PM
Perhaps there's nuances here I don't catch (English being a second language to me). I interpret wacky as slightly over-the-top original.

In that case, I'm in total agreement with you! :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ten thumbs on July 07, 2009, 05:09:21 AM
Whilst D. Scarlatti's sonatas my seem more inventive than their early classical counterparts in Italy, it should be borne in mind that they were written under royal patronage. Perhaps it was the queen who was the wacky one!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2009, 05:44:42 AM
Well hello, it's the wacky Queen again!

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 07, 2009, 07:25:12 AM
Quote from: cliftwood on July 06, 2009, 12:03:36 PM
I'd hardly desribe Scarlatti and C.P.E. Bach as wacky. Both of these composers were out front of their time musically and I marvel at the originality of the music they composed.
Oh, most of the great composers were pretty wacky. ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ten thumbs on July 09, 2009, 01:18:09 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 07, 2009, 07:25:12 AM
Oh, most of the great composers were pretty wacky. ;D
Agreed. My previous point was that when writing for a single patron it is necessary to avoid repetition. This was not a problem Handel had.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: cliftwood on July 09, 2009, 07:08:51 AM
Add another wonderful Scarlatti player to the list.

Soyeon Lee.

She was the winner of the 2004 Concert Artists Guild International Competition.

It's on Naxos and she really is special. There are a number of Sonatas hardly ever recorded, which makes this CD very desirable.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 07:22:38 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 07, 2009, 07:25:12 AM
Oh, most of the great composers were pretty wacky. ;D

I couldn't possibly have an opinion.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 09, 2009, 07:17:27 PM
Here is a pretty decent CD of Scarlatti's works ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413FTB05R9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 10, 2009, 05:20:48 PM
Here is another excellent Scarlatti's recording on piano IMO.  I have owned this CD for at least 10 years.  A used copy of this CD will now set you back $30 on Amazon ...

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 12:52:43 AM
Quote from: cliftwood on July 09, 2009, 07:08:51 AM
Add another wonderful Scarlatti player to the list.

Soyeon Lee.

She was the winner of the 2004 Concert Artists Guild International Competition.

It's on Naxos and she really is special. There are a number of Sonatas hardly ever recorded, which makes this CD very desirable.

Looks like my 2nd D. Scarlatti disc...  :P
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 11, 2009, 08:09:14 AM
Ho hai guyz:

(http://hdelboy.club.fr/scott_ross_2.jpg)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on July 11, 2009, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 11, 2009, 08:09:14 AM
Ho hai guyz:

(http://hdelboy.club.fr/scott_ross_2.jpg)



Yes, why settle for less..... 8)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: FideLeo on July 11, 2009, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: Que on July 11, 2009, 02:44:43 PM
Yes, why settle for less..... 8)

Q

I often wish that this set (the original release) took up less shelf space than it does, but, my,
what fine performances!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 12, 2009, 06:12:57 AM
That's Scott Ross, right? He plays the works on harpsichord I imagine?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 06:21:04 AM
Quote from: George on July 12, 2009, 06:12:57 AM
That's Scott Ross, right? He plays the works on harpsichord I imagine?

I may have a few harpsichord recordings by Scott Ross on LP.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 12, 2009, 07:12:39 AM
Quote from: George on July 12, 2009, 06:12:57 AM
That's Scott Ross, right? He plays the works on harpsichord I imagine?

Read this for enlightenment:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 07:16:57 AM
Quote from: erato on July 12, 2009, 07:12:39 AM
Read this for enlightenment:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html)

I think I saw the 34-CD set.  That is a bit much IMO as Scarlatti is no Johann Sebastian Bach.  I can deal with a 60 CD Bach Cantatas set or that mega set of 155 CD's from BC, but a 34-CD set of Scarlatti's harpsichord works?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 12, 2009, 07:38:42 AM
Quote from: erato on July 12, 2009, 07:12:39 AM
Read this for enlightenment:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html)

Thanks.

From that page:

QuoteScott Ross began his recording of Scarlatti's 555 sonatas on 16th June 1984. Ninety-eight sessions were required, and the last take was completed on 10th September 1885. In all, there had been eight thousand takes.

Wow, he travelled back in time to record these works. Can't get any more HIP than that.  ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on July 12, 2009, 07:54:45 AM
Quote from: erato on July 12, 2009, 07:12:39 AM
Read this for enlightenment:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2005/12/if-you-only-buy-thirty-four-cds-this.html)

"When I hear Glenn Gould, I say, he understood nothing about Bach. An artist who doesn't show himself in public has a problem. He's so much off-target that you'd need a 747 to take him back" (Scott Ross).

Three different ideas in one statement: the first one is probably wrong; the second, deep and the latter funny.

:)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 09:04:46 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 07:16:57 AM
I think I saw the 34-CD set.  That is a bit much IMO as Scarlatti is no Johann Sebastian Bach.  I can deal with a 60 CD Bach Cantatas set or that mega set of 155 CD's from BC, but a 34-CD set of Scarlatti's harpsichord works?

I bought the set about five ears ago and i still haven't tired of it. Imagine Vivaldi maintaining the same level of inspiration of his Opus 3 to every single one of his concertos, then add a more advanced use of harmony and you'll get Scarlatti. After Bach, he is the greatest composer for the harpsichord that ever lived. My opinion of course.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 09:30:10 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on July 12, 2009, 07:54:45 AM
"When I hear Glenn Gould, I say, he understood nothing about Bach. An artist who doesn't show himself in public has a problem. He's so much off-target that you'd need a 747 to take him back" (Scott Ross).

Three different ideas in one statement: the first one is probably wrong; the second, deep and the latter funny.

:)

Rosalyn Tureck was passionate about Bach keyboard works and Glenn Gould kind of modeled his performance life after her.  Tureck was not known to have performed many non-Bach keyboard works either ...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 09:59:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vpG1PgFF34&feature=related

Straight like an arrow, with no artificial turns or twists of any kind, like God intended. Lots of harpsichord players are so obsessed with coming up with clever ways to spike the ornamentation that they sometimes forget the structure of the piece. The harpsichord works of Handel tend to suffer from this trend a lot.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on July 12, 2009, 09:30:10 AM
Rosalyn Tureck was passionate about Bach keyboard works and Glenn Gould kind of modeled his performance life after her.  Tureck was not known to have performed many non-Bach keyboard works either ...

Is there a point here? The fact Scott Ross disagreed with Gould doesn't necessarily mean he objected to Tureck as well. Further more, the fact Tureck was passionate about Bach doesn't mean she got it right, either. Notice how Ross is wrong here merely for having an opinion. How dares he criticize Gould? Doesn't he know that all opinions are individual and that we all have our preferences? Doesn't he like to live in this world of perfect gray where no shades of color are allowed and when everything is perfectly valid and equal to everything else, which really means that nothing really matters anymore?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 12, 2009, 10:15:13 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 09:59:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vpG1PgFF34&feature=related

Thanks a lot for that link.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Marc on July 12, 2009, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 09:04:46 AM
[....] Imagine Vivaldi maintaining the same level of inspiration of his Opus 3 to every single one of his concertos, then add a more advanced use of harmony and you'll get Scarlatti. After Bach, he is the greatest composer for the harpsichord that ever lived. My opinion of course.

Not a bad description, IMHO.
Whether or not his music is as 'deep' as Bach's (and who am I to judge about that?), Scarlatti is always able to raise my spirit.

1685 was one happy year for music!
February 3rd 1959: the day the music died (according to Don McLean c.s.).
1685: the year the music was born (according to .... others).
And we're still able to listen to the compositions of Bach, Händel and Scarlatti. There must be something eternal about them.

:)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 10:51:52 AM
BTW, here's a mirror image of my Scarlatti collection which i ripped into my computer a while back:

http://rapidshare.com/files/255055494/Sonatas.rar.html

Through out the years i collected a lot of information regarding those sonatas, their estimate date of composition, the various type of influences, the form actually used in each sonata and so forth, which i added in the name of each file. Much of this is highly conjectural, and the work is far from being finished, but i think many of you might find this information valuable. I cropped each sonata by estimated year of composition, with the exception of the 30 esercizi, which were published as a single set so it's best to leave it that way. You can still see the estimated date of composition in the name of the file.  

The file structure works like this:

k.035 - Toccata in g, Allegro (3) (a. 1715; 1737) (Handel)

Catalog number, form if known, key, tempo, CD number in the Ross collection, estimated date of composition and date of actual manuscript, and recognizable influence if known.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 12, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 12, 2009, 10:44:33 AM
...February 3rd 1959: the day the music died (according to Don McLean c.s.)...
Remind me (I don't have time to Google what Don McLean said, since I have no idea what, when, where or why he said it), what was the cause of death? :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on July 12, 2009, 01:09:31 PM
Buddy Holly dies, as recounted in the Classic "American Pie".
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 12, 2009, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: erato on July 12, 2009, 01:09:31 PM
Buddy Holly dies, as recounted in the Classic "American Pie".

Well, I have no idea 'why' Buddy Holly's death year, i.e. 1959, was brought into this Scarlatti thread?  ::)

BUT, since the story of American Pie was raised, then further discussion is warranted; the common belief is that the name of the plane (in which Buddy, Richie Valens, & the 'Big Bopper' lost their lives) was nicknamed the American Pie; however, this story is apparently not true - check THIS LINK (http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/americanpie.asp), if interested.

Now, Don McLean apparently has not revealed the meaning of this 'LONG' song (which I do enjoy, and saw him perform in person years ago), so there may be no answer?  But, another part of this story concerns the several potential passengers who did NOT get on the plane that fatal night - one was Waylon Jennings, Holly's bass guitar player - would have ended a great 'country music' career yet to come!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Marc on July 12, 2009, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 12, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Remind me (I don't have time to Google what Don McLean said, since I have no idea what, when, where or why he said it), what was the cause of death? :)

Three rock musicians died in an airplane crash: Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and 'The Big Bopper' J.P. Richardson jr. (as mentioned before).

The lyrics of Don McLean jumped into my mind immediately after my thoughts about the happy year of birth 1685 .... that's why I mentioned this awful event.

Didn't mean to ruin the Scarlatti thread, though. I guess it just happend because I'm an associative thinking person. :-[
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 12, 2009, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 12, 2009, 09:59:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vpG1PgFF34&feature=related

Straight like an arrow, with no artificial turns or twists of any kind, like God intended. Lots of harpsichord players are so obsessed with coming up with clever ways to spike the ornamentation that they sometimes forget the structure of the piece. The harpsichord works of Handel tend to suffer from this trend a lot.

I bought the Ross set and played it about eight times. It's highly recommendable, although only occasionally he does he find the last degree of fire and bite- as the Youtube video cited here shows. The regret is that Trevor Pinnock didn't do the survey, a musical personality suited to Scarlatti like no other.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jochanaan on July 13, 2009, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Marc on July 12, 2009, 08:54:15 PM
Three rock musicians died in an airplane crash: Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and 'The Big Bopper' J.P. Richardson jr. (as mentioned before).

The lyrics of Don McLean jumped into my mind immediately after my thoughts about the happy year of birth 1685 .... that's why I mentioned this awful event.

Didn't mean to ruin the Scarlatti thread, though. I guess it just happend because I'm an associative thinking person. :-[
Thanks!  And I think there's little need to worry about ruining a musical thread.  Music has shown an extraordinary ability to resurrect itself after its supposed death--rumors of which are usually greatly exaggerated. ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Marc on July 13, 2009, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on July 13, 2009, 06:59:24 AM
Thanks! And I think there's little need to worry about ruining a musical thread. Music has shown an extraordinary ability to resurrect itself after its supposed death--rumors of which are usually greatly exaggerated. ;D

Yes: keep the spirit high!

A Phoenix from the flame!!
(Another quatation .... but never mind. :-X)

The first notes of the Horowitz 1986 recitals .... Scarlatti's K 380 in E major.
Horowitz in Moscow was my first piano vinyl LP. Still a treasure. Still available.

But unfortunately the Phoenix story doesn't go for everything. Not available anymore is my first 'entire' Scarlatti CD, produced by the Erasmus company of Wijnand van Hooff. Label got bankrupt .... etcetera.
Still a treasure though, this recital, in my private disc collection. A nice collection of 14 sonatas, played by Dutch pianist Peter van Leeuwen.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 13, 2009, 01:24:59 PM
Quote from: Marc on July 13, 2009, 01:06:05 PM
A Phoenix from the flame!!
(Another quatation .... but never mind. :-X)


There is no other Troooooooy.  0:)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:07:30 PM
Here is a nice Scarlatti's CD by Horowitz that has been in my collection for a number of years ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q2n1siEhL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 13, 2009, 05:12:28 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:07:30 PM
Here is a nice Scarlatti's CD by Horowitz that has been in my collection for a number of years ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q2n1siEhL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Yes, I love Horowitz's Scarlatti. I was just listening to this live CD over the weekend, which begins with a handful of his Scarlatti Sonatas.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/42/81/dfd8729fd7a052044f84d010.L.jpg)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:14:36 PM
Quote from: George on July 13, 2009, 05:12:28 PM
Yes, I love Horowitz's Scarlatti. I was just listening to this live CD over the weekend, which begins with a handful of his Scarlatti Sonatas.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/42/81/dfd8729fd7a052044f84d010.L.jpg)



How does Horowitz stack up against Richter?  No competitions?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: George on July 13, 2009, 05:25:50 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:14:36 PM
How does Horowitz stack up against Richter?  No competitions?

Richter didn't record any Scarlatti, but his Beethoven is much better than Horowitz's IMO.  Horowitz has a tendency to play too loud at times and thus lose the nuance on a lot of his recordings. This is something that is not exactly alien to Richter, but he doesn't go to the extremes that Horowitz does. Or perhaps he does, but only at the appropriate time and with the appropriate works.

My opinion of Horowitz has waxed and waned over the years. There are some incredible performances in his discography, but much of his recordings I just can't listen to anymore. Scarlatti is one place I think he shines, Schumann is another. His live Rachmaninov PS 2 at Carnegie Hall 1981 is epic. Those opening chords shake the room and the intensity doesn't let up until the final bars. His early recording of Tchaikovsky PC 1 with Toscanini is another classic. Beyond these, I have trouble finding a whole lot to get excited about. I have yet to hear his Scriabin, however. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on July 13, 2009, 05:59:34 PM
Quote from: George on July 13, 2009, 05:25:50 PM
I have yet to hear his Scriabin, however. 

I have this Scriabin's recording by Horowitz.  It is an excellent recording IMO ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5131g%2BGSpQL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 18, 2009, 10:51:15 PM
I just ordered the Pieter-Jan Belder complete recording from Amazon- UK£40 for 36 CDs, amazing price. I used to own the Scott Ross, which I found adequate but sometimes lacking in fire and attack: the brighter harpsichords he used seemed to bring the best out of him, particularly the volumes in the middle of his box set.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AM
Quote from: Sean on July 18, 2009, 10:51:15 PM
I just ordered the Pieter-Jan Belder complete recording from Amazon- UK£40 for 36 CDs, amazing price. I used to own the Scott Ross, which I found adequate but sometimes lacking in fire and attack: the brighter harpsichords he used seemed to bring the best out of him, particularly the volumes in the middle of his box set.

Well, good luck with the Belder.
I can't agree with your comment about Ross and what's more: I can't square that comment with a preference for Belder in Scarlatti, since his approach is definitely less firy and dashing than Ross'! :)

If you want crackling Scarlatti, try Pierre Hantaï (Naïve) or Enrico Baiano (Sypmhonia).

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on July 19, 2009, 02:16:28 AM
Let's see:


Quote from: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AMWell, good luck with the Belder.
I can't agree with your comment about Ross...

Seconded.

Quote from: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AM...and what's more: I can't square that comment with a preference for Belder in Scarlatti, since his approach is definitely less firy and dashing than Ross'! :)

Seconded.

Quote from: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AMIf you want crackling Scarlatti, try Pierre Hantaï (Naïve)

Seconded.

Quote from: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AM...or Enrico Baiano (Sypmhonia).

Now officially curious.



All that seconding done, I should turn around a little bit in defense of Belder: He's not bad, at all. In fact, he's quite enjoyable. And more even than Ross. But surely not more exciting. I learned to appreciate Belder more when I heard the "Best of" from whats-his-name cycle on Nimbus. Lester... that's it (http://href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Frichpub%2Flistmania%2Ffullview%2FR33IXAXAZIG39P%3Fie%3DUTF8%26ref%255F%3Dcm%255Flm%255Fbyauthor%255Ftitle%255Ffull&tag=nectarandambr-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=390957).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 19, 2009, 04:37:23 AM
Thanks you two; what you say thirded on the Amazon reviews also.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on July 20, 2009, 06:29:02 AM
I don't know if I posted this already, but I recently got Zhu Xiao-Mei's recording of Scarlatti, and it is terrific.  I don't really understand why it's OOP, but it's still available for download at Amazon, and I believe at Itunes as well.  Her performance of the K.113 is so astonishing that it easily is one of the best Scarlatti recordings that I've ever heard, and it was recorded from a live performance. 

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on July 20, 2009, 07:32:12 AM
Quote from: Bunny on July 20, 2009, 06:29:02 AM
I don't know if I posted this already, but I recently got Zhu Xiao-Mei's recording of Scarlatti, and it is terrific.  I don't really understand why it's OOP, but it's still available for download at Amazon, and I believe at Itunes as well.  Her performance of the K.113 is so astonishing that it easily is one of the best Scarlatti recordings that I've ever heard, and it was recorded from a live performance. 

Never heard it. But judging by her Goldberg Variations (one of my piano favorites; perhaps "the" favorite), I not surprised and all the more curious to listen to her Scarlatti.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/311uDqaamCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
BACH, Goldberg Variations, Zhu Xiao-Mei, Mirare (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000U7V9YO/goodmusicguide-20)
(Cheap in France (http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000U7V9YO/nectarandambrFR-21))
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Drasko on July 20, 2009, 07:56:41 AM
Quote from: Que on July 19, 2009, 12:48:56 AM
Enrico Baiano (Sypmhonia).

Quote from: jlaurson on July 19, 2009, 02:16:28 AM
Now officially curious.

Me too. Could you upload one or two sonatas for sampling?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 20, 2009, 08:31:18 AM
No comments on my awesome archiving skills? I feel like i'm under-appreciated here.  :'(
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on July 20, 2009, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 20, 2009, 08:31:18 AM
No comments on my awesome archiving skills? I feel like i'm under-appreciated here.  :'(

Your idea is excellent IMO, providing a few words which help one to distinguish the sonatas from each other. My problem is, that I have not yet found any free software (freeware, and not shareware) which can handle winrar files.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Drasko on July 20, 2009, 10:59:08 AM
Quote from: premont on July 20, 2009, 10:48:39 AM
My problem is, that I have not yet found any free software (freeware, and not shareware) which can handle winrar files.

Try this http://www.7-zip.org/
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on July 20, 2009, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Drasko on July 20, 2009, 10:59:08 AM
Try this http://www.7-zip.org/

Looks promising, thanks so much. :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 21, 2009, 05:44:59 AM
I'm a complete Scarlatti addict and the Belder is the second complete set I've bought- some thoughts here. The only other recordings I know well are the Pinnock and Kirkpatrick LPs.

Listening to my Belder for the first time, from the opening notes on disc 1 this is obviously a very clear-headed player with fine sense of structure and awareness of this music's idiom; excellent articulation and perspicuous rhythmic control, nothing rushed but displaying a fine and even technique.

He lets the ecstasy build on its own though perhaps not quite enough, I'm not sure yet- from the first few sonatas: you can hear the influence of his Bach playing, bringing out the music's grandeur and intellectual power; he's put a lot of thought into each sonata and they seem perfectly and beautifully played. There's a good acoustic and very realistic well focussed sound; it's a 36 CD set of the 555 sonatas, comparing with Scott Ross's 34, partly due to slightly slower tempos.

It excludes the Fandango and doubtful sonatas that Erato released on a later CD. There's a small booklet which is very unprofessionally and disgracefully prepared and which I've binned; Ross' set by contrast has a huge and fascinating book of scholarly notes on each sonata. The bc scorings for the few figured bass sonatas are also slightly different.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 21, 2009, 06:21:50 PM
Another thought on the 36/ 34 CDs is that Ross was selective in which sonatas he included repeats: looks like Belder always does- particularly important as the end of the preceeding section is omitted second time...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on July 22, 2009, 11:01:51 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on July 20, 2009, 07:32:12 AM
Never heard it. But judging by her Goldberg Variations (one of my piano favorites; perhaps "the" favorite), I not surprised and all the more curious to listen to her Scarlatti.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/311uDqaamCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
BACH, Goldberg Variations, Zhu Xiao-Mei, Mirare (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000U7V9YO/goodmusicguide-20)
(Cheap in France (http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000U7V9YO/nectarandambrFR-21))

I have her Goldbergs, and am now on a quest to find all of her recordings.  There's some Schubert and Beethoven rumored to be out there along with the Bach Partitas, but I'm damned if I can find hide nor hair of of them. She included as a last track on the Scarlatti cd Schubert's Allegretto in c minor (D. 915 I believe), and it was done exquisitely.  If you like her Goldbergs, then try and get a hold of her WTC II.  That's my favorite piano recording of that. Her recent Haydn sonatas is surprisingly more to my taste than Hamelin's, and she doesn't play as fast, nor ornament with that astonishingly virtuoso technique.  For some reason, however, those sonatas just sound more musical when she is playing them. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on July 22, 2009, 11:11:22 AM
Quote from: Bunny on July 22, 2009, 11:01:51 AM
I have her Goldbergs, and am now on a quest to find all of her recordings.  There's some Schubert and Beethoven rumored to be out there along with the Bach Partitas, but I'm damned if I can find hide nor hair of of them. She included as a last track on the Scarlatti cd Schubert's Allegretto in c minor (D. 915 I believe), and it was done exquisitely.  If you like her Goldbergs, then try and get a hold of her WTC II.  That's my favorite piano recording of that. Her recent Haydn sonatas is surprisingly more to my taste than Hamelin's, and she doesn't play as fast, nor ornament with that astonishingly virtuoso technique.  For some reason, however, those sonatas just sound more musical when she is playing them. 

I also have her Goldbergs and WTC II; have to say I prefer her WTC II.  Haven't yet heard her Haydn, but I intend to get it.  I agree that finding her discs is no easy matter; they seem to be around for a few months after distribution, then they vanish.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on July 22, 2009, 11:26:21 AM
Quote from: Bunny on July 22, 2009, 11:01:51 AM
I have her Goldbergs, and am now on a quest to find all of her recordings.  There's some Schubert and Beethoven rumored to be out there along with the Bach Partitas, but I'm damned if I can find hide nor hair of of them. She included as a last track on the Scarlatti cd Schubert's Allegretto in c minor (D. 915 I believe), and it was done exquisitely.  If you like her Goldbergs, then try and get a hold of her WTC II.  That's my favorite piano recording of that. Her recent Haydn sonatas is surprisingly more to my taste than Hamelin's, and she doesn't play as fast, nor ornament with that astonishingly virtuoso technique.  For some reason, however, those sonatas just sound more musical when she is playing them. 


Her Schubert is lovely. She teams up with one of my favorite pianists for some works for two pianos:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DRH1PYNNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Schubert,
Works for 2 Pianos
Alexandre Tharaud, Zhu Xiao-Mei
Harmonia Mundi (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000084SY6/goodmusicguide-20)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 23, 2009, 12:19:36 AM
Does anyone know if Belder uses a lower pitch than others? It sounds like it, unless it's just the harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 23, 2009, 06:21:44 AM
Quote from: Sean on July 23, 2009, 12:19:36 AM
Does anyone know if Belder uses a lower pitch than others? It sounds like it, unless it's just the harpsichord.

Put in a recent order for the first volume of Belder's performances on Brilliant, so will be an interesting listen; otherwise on harpsichord, I only have the 3 discs of Hantai playing about 50 or so of these sonatas (in no specific order and ranging from the beginning to the end).  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 23, 2009, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: Sean on July 23, 2009, 12:19:36 AM
Does anyone know if Belder uses a lower pitch than others? It sounds like it, unless it's just the harpsichord.

He uses a different tuning, like most modern HIP players. It really drives me nuts sometimes. I can really understand what it must feel like to have perfect pitch after listening to some of those misfits.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 23, 2009, 11:49:55 AM
SonicMan, Belder will give fine returns to the Scarlattian; the great consistency of the music though is one of its mysteries and no proper chronology exists, all the manuscripts being lost, as you may know.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 23, 2009, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: Sean on July 23, 2009, 11:49:55 AM
SonicMan, Belder will give fine returns to the Scarlattian; the great consistency of the music though is one of its mysteries and no proper chronology exists, all the manuscripts being lost, as you may know.

My attempt at chronology is pretty good considering the odds. You can actually hear a difference between some of the early sonatas and the latter ones, not only in terms of form but also in the use of harmony. Some of his later pieces are really esoteric in this respect, but they still surprise for their impeccable deliberateness. Indeed, the clarity and sureness of his musical invention betrays an Apollonian personality rather then a Dionysian one. There's no orgiastic element in his work, no obliteration of consciousness, just an endless series of perfectly crafted melodic and harmonic developments. This aspect of his music goes well in hand with his personality as a grave and withdrawn man. The follower of Dionysus seeks to annihilate his individual consciousness in order to join with the group in a moment of catharsis. The Apollonian looks inward into the self, into the pure consciousness of the individual, unburned by all physical urges and needs. All individual genius is thus Apollonian, the Dionysian being more often expressed in the entertainment of the folk.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Sean on July 23, 2009, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 23, 2009, 01:32:17 PM
My attempt at chronology is pretty good considering the odds. You can actually hear a difference between some of the early sonatas and the latter ones, not only in terms of form but also in the use of harmony. Some of his later pieces are really esoteric in this respect, but they still surprise for their impeccable deliberateness. Indeed, the clarity and sureness of his musical invention betrays an Apollonian personality rather then a Dionysian one. There's no orgiastic element in his work, no obliteration of consciousness, just an endless series of perfectly crafted melodic and harmonic developments. This aspect of his music goes well in hand with his personality as a grave and withdrawn man. The follower of Dionysus seeks to annihilate his individual consciousness in order to join with the group in a moment of catharsis. The Apollonian looks inward into the self, into the pure consciousness of the individual, unburned by all physical urges and needs. All individual genius is thus Apollonian, the Dionysian being more often expressed in the entertainment of the folk.

Goodness me! That would take a few minutes of my typing to reply to properly, but that's a nice post there and it's great to read a view properly reflected on. Some of the sonatas harmonically are very peculiar indeed as you say but it's exactly his ability to look deeply inward to music's resources without bothering to change the overall formal design that makes Scarlatti so Dionysian: he's a subject-subject not rationalized Apollonian subject-object thinker, staying within and exploring the Self and its infinite possibilities. To say he's not orgiastic is a bit odd though- you must have some staid recordings... The Dionysiac is indeed universal but accessing it and experiencing it fully is the privilege of the few.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 06:11:16 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on July 01, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Y58A7WZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YXZA9R92L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Some great Scarlatti selection Cds avaiable........I also highly recommend Hantai, Staier harpsicord and Sudbin piano

What about the recent Lester/Nimbus complete set, sold in 7 volumes very cheap at Amazon sellers, does it surpass complete sets by Belder/Brilliant and Ross/Warner Classic which is now almost 20 years old? Samples sound quite promising........

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-sBpc6OpL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ml2h1q7PL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 25, 2009, 06:47:25 AM
Quote from: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 06:11:16 AM
Some great Scarlatti selection Cds avaiable........I also highly recommend Hantai, Staier harpsicord and Sudbin piano

What about the recent Lester/Nimbus complete set, sold in 7 volumes very cheap at Amazon sellers, does it surpass complete sets by Belder/Brilliant and Ross/Warner Classic which is now almost 20 years old? Samples sound quite promising........


DA - I was not aware of the Richard Lester really 'complete' set of these works - will be quite interested in the comments from those who might have compared Lester w/ some of the other 'front runners'!   :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 06:54:17 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on December 25, 2009, 06:47:25 AM
DA - I was not aware of the Richard Lester really 'complete' set of these works - will be quite interested in the comments from those who might have compared Lester w/ some of the other 'front runners'!   :D

Lester is even more "complete" than the Ross set since in the past 20 years many new Scarlatti works have been found and included in Lester's set (3 Cds worth of material)

I do not like the packaging choice by Nimbus.......6 CD plastic jewel cases which are very fragile and crack/break if you  breath on them too hard, have almost no room for booklet. Better choice would have been cardboard wallet box and sleeves for Cds, bigger better booklets  :(
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 25, 2009, 07:36:06 AM
Quote from: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 06:54:17 AM
I do not like the packaging choice by Nimbus.......6 CD plastic jewel cases which are very fragile and crack/break if you  breath on them too hard, have almost no room for booklet. Better choice would have been cardboard wallet box and sleeves for Cds, bigger better booklets  :(

Money, money, money. Hugely expensive, those cardboard wallets, especially if you don't produce the high volume Brilliant Classics does. But a pity all the same, you are right.

I got the Lester 2-CD "Best of sampler" and had such high expectations (variety of instruments, personal selection, inspired playing?) but was let down. His "Best of" doesn't sound better than any randomly chosen set from Belder's recording. When you listen to Ross' "Les plus belles" CD, you really want to buy the whole set. Here... you'd wonder.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 25, 2009, 08:20:27 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 25, 2009, 07:36:06 AM
I got the Lester 2-CD "Best of sampler" and had such high expectations (variety of instruments, personal selection, inspired playing?) but was let down. His "Best of" doesn't sound better than any randomly chosen set from Belder's recording. When you listen to Ross' "Les plus belles" CD, you really want to buy the whole set. Here... you'd wonder.

Jens - after I read DA's comments on Richard Lester, I put that 2-CD sampler of his on my 'wish list' - received just laudatory remarks in the 'Penguin Guide' (as did the entire series - they seem to prefer Lester to Ross, their only other 'complete' listing); in addition, there are plenty of excellent online comments concerning Lester's performances of these works.

I do have the first volume (3-CDs) of the Belder works and do enjoy them, but have not bought into the entire package (still not sure that I want 3 dozen or so discs of these sonatas despite their reputation).  The Scott Ross set is $165 through Amazon, which is still cheaper (by about $20) than buying all of the Lester boxes at the same place - not sure if these Nimbus works are being offered cheaper elsewhere.

Of course, the entire Belder box is only $80 - certainly the best value!  Well, will do some patient waiting - I've got the 3 Hantai discs (and the Belder) for harpsichord & Pletnev & Sudbin for piano!  Dave  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 25, 2009, 09:38:17 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on December 25, 2009, 08:20:27 AM
Jens - after I read DA's comments on Richard Lester, I put that 2-CD sampler of his on my 'wish list' - received just laudatory remarks in the 'Penguin Guide' (as did the entire series - they seem to prefer Lester to Ross, their only other 'complete' listing); in addition, there are plenty of excellent online comments concerning Lester's performances of these works.

I do have the first volume (3-CDs) of the Belder works and do enjoy them, but have not bought into the entire package (still not sure that I want 3 dozen or so discs of these sonatas despite their reputation).  The Scott Ross set is $165 through Amazon, which is still cheaper (by about $20) than buying all of the Lester boxes at the same place - not sure if these Nimbus works are being offered cheaper elsewhere.

Of course, the entire Belder box is only $80 - certainly the best value!  Well, will do some patient waiting - I've got the 3 Hantai discs (and the Belder) for harpsichord & Pletnev & Sudbin for piano!  Dave  :D

Looks like you have a great collection as it is. I love those "happy freaks", and I'm glad having the Belder box as a reference, but I don't think it's an absolute necessity. (Very little really is...)

With Sudbin, Pletnev, Hantai you have the best of the best. Eventually add Horowitz and Pogorelich, definitely the "Best of" disc with Scott Ross. (Links below.)

Not essential, but neat, is Alain Planès' fortepiano disc.
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html)

Ditto Landowska... you can hear the anti aircraft guns go off in the background in k499... but it is really more than just a historical document.

I'm looking forward to sampling Ottavio Dantone, but haven't yet.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q2n1siEhL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Horowitz (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF32K?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000CF32K)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DRCQRHMJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Ross (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000005E6V?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000005E6V)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SXV81H57L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Planès (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SKT2E?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0002SKT2E)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4174do391HL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Landowska (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002S5A?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000002S5A)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 03:21:48 PM
I'll go ahead and get a couple of the later Belder/Brilliant 3CD sets, very very cheap..........
I not sure I like the idea of random switching of keyboards going from harpsicord to forte piano on some Cds,  will have to see how it works on the finished product.

Most reviews say Belder has a warmer sound and overall more relaxed performance style compared to Scott Ross, will know more soon.

I will admit sometimes I "cheat" on solo harpsicord performances......
Change sound EQ by reducing treble and slight bass boost to give a richer warmer less fatiguing sound better for listening over longer time periods  ;)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on January 16, 2010, 06:19:16 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on December 25, 2009, 03:21:48 PM
I'll go ahead and get a couple of the later Belder/Brilliant 3CD sets, very very cheap..........
I not sure I like the idea of random switching of keyboards going from harpsicord to forte piano on some Cds,  will have to see how it works on the finished product.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GAX2STH7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/02/27489.JPG)

I got a few of the Lester/Nimbus and Belder/Brilliant releases, and I like the older Scott Ross performances better, and if you want a complete set I would definitely go for the Ross/Warner boxset as first choice. (or get 3CD Ross Anthology set at Archiv Music re-issue)

The Lester series is too brightly lit as a recording and not rythmically as engaging as Ross, not as much natural flow. Belder has a warmer sound and a slightly more relaxed style compared to Ross, more competitive than Lester for me and a 2nd choice for complete set. The multiple jumps to forte piano by Belder only occur in the later sonatas, overall works prettry well but the transition is a bit jarring, gives more variety

Scott Ross has an animated style with finely accentuated rythms that make these sonatas sparkle and dance, you can compare same sonatas by different artists and amazing how flat they can sound if you just play the notes and don't accent the rythms when needed..........makes all the difference

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on January 16, 2010, 06:32:53 PM
I acquired this recording last year, and recommend it highly.  I don't know how she does it, but everything flows so perfectly.  Rhythm, phrasing, pacing, dynamics are all harnessed in the creation of a refined and yet robust interpretation. 

Zhu Xiao-Mei
(http://cot.priceminister.com/photo/834337697_L.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on January 16, 2010, 06:35:57 PM
Also happy to report that MDT (UK) has finally shipped all backorders of sales from early December and I now have Volumes 1,2,3 of Pierre Hantai/Mirare harpsicord sonatas........they are the best I have heard by anyone.  :)

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/48/483034.JPG) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/59/598275.jpg) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/68/683457.jpg)

Bunny
I will look into Zhu Xiao-Mei, I usually find your recommendations very much to my liking..........
Are these piano versions

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on January 16, 2010, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 16, 2010, 06:35:57 PM
Also happy to report that MDT (UK) has finally shipped all backorders of sales from early December and I now have Volumes 1,2,3 of Pierre Hantai/Mirare harpsicord sonatas........they are the best I have heard by anyone.  :)

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/48/483034.JPG) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/59/598275.jpg) (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/68/683457.jpg)

Bunny
I will look into Zhu Xiao-Mei, I usually find your recommendations very much to my liking..........
Are these piano versions

Zhu uses a Steinway. 

I love those Hantaï recordings, they are just exemplary.  I hope you got them for a good price!  When he first started recording the sonatas, I thought he would be working on a complete set.  The first one was labeled "Vol. 1" even before any announcement had been made.  I hope he resumes recording them.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on January 16, 2010, 07:04:09 PM
The Scarlatti is still available used from Amazon France (where I picked it up) and also for download there.

Here is the link to the cd: http://www.amazon.fr/17-Sonates-Domenico-Scarlatti/dp/B00004VN1S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1263700611&sr=8-2-catcorr (http://www.amazon.fr/17-Sonates-Domenico-Scarlatti/dp/B00004VN1S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1263700611&sr=8-2-catcorr)

Here is the link to the download: http://www.amazon.fr/Sonates-pour-clavier/dp/B0025AEL1C/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk?ie=UTF8&qid=1263700611&sr=8-2-catcorr (http://www.amazon.fr/Sonates-pour-clavier/dp/B0025AEL1C/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk?ie=UTF8&qid=1263700611&sr=8-2-catcorr)

Please note: the cover picture for the cd listing is not correct.  The album also includes one track by Schubert (last track).  It may also be available on Ebay and from other European vendors.  It is worth a try, and in any event you can sample tracks at the download site.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on January 17, 2010, 03:04:27 PM
While I have close to 150 LP's/CD's of various works by Vivaldi and probably have most if not all the recorded works, I find it somewhat difficult to justify getting Scarlatti's complete harpsichord works.  Scarlatti was clearly no JS Bach and he was also less accomplished than Vivaldi.  At any rate, how is the BC set by Peter Jan Belder?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bunny on January 17, 2010, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on January 17, 2010, 03:04:27 PM
While I have close to 150 LP's/CD's of various works by Vivaldi and probably have most if not all the recorded works, I find it somewhat difficult to justify getting Scarlatti's complete harpsichord works.  Scarlatti was clearly no JS Bach and he was also less accomplished than Vivaldi.  At any rate, how is the BC set by Peter Jan Belder?

Don't know the Belder set, but Scarlatti's keyboard works are extremely fine, and he didn't have to be Bach to be a great instrumentalist and an innovative composer.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on January 17, 2010, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on January 17, 2010, 03:04:27 PM
While I have close to 150 LP's/CD's of various works by Vivaldi and probably have most if not all the recorded works, I find it somewhat difficult to justify getting Scarlatti's complete harpsichord works.  Scarlatti was clearly no JS Bach and he was also less accomplished than Vivaldi.  At any rate, how is the BC set by Peter Jan Belder?

Coop
I just commented above (#225) reasons that I prefer the Scott Ross/Warner Classic set over the Belder/Brilliant set, hard to get fully acquianted with 34 Cds of sonatas, always new things to discover..........if you buy from UK especially during sales Ross set will not cost much over $100, during Xmas sales it was as low as $82

Scarlatti is more entertaining to listen to compared to Bach, but I really think Scarlatti comes off better on harpsicord and sounds a bit bare on modern piano
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 10, 2010, 06:26:14 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on January 17, 2010, 03:20:49 PM
I got a few of the Lester/Nimbus and Belder/Brilliant releases, and I like the older Scott Ross performances better, and if you want a complete set I would definitely go for the Ross/Warner boxset as first choice. (or get 3CD Ross Anthology set at Archiv Music re-issue)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GAX2STH7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Took my own advice and finally purchased the Scott Ross boxset from UK.......this will take some time to explore

Would also like to buy Padre Antonio Soler sonata set from Naxos currently on volume 13, I will wait for a boxset to be released by Naxos, shipping is a killer for all those individually. Similar to Scarlatti in style, I love these also....nearly as prolific as Scarlatti with over 200 sonatas known today but very little recorded and no complete sets that I know of
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 10, 2010, 06:35:06 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41rpam8tebL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Having a complete boxset does not dimminish the hunger for new individual Scarlatti collections, really like this Skip Sempe CD recently acquired and have been buying other french baroque harpsicord Cds he has on his own record label. Very dashing imaginative playing like Hantai and some of the very best artists, make these gems sparkle
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scarpia on March 10, 2010, 06:51:05 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on January 17, 2010, 03:04:27 PMScarlatti was clearly no JS Bach and he was also less accomplished than Vivaldi.

I am trying to contemplate someone less accomplished than Vivaldi, but I am drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2010, 08:52:56 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 10, 2010, 06:35:06 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41rpam8tebL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Having a complete boxset does not dimminish the hunger for new individual Scarlatti collections, really like this Skip Sempe CD recently acquired and have been buying other french baroque harpsicord Cds he has on his own record label. Very dashing imaginative playing like Hantai and some of the very best artists, make these gems sparkle

I much prefer Sempe to Hanti in fact.

What do you think of the way he doubles up the harpsichord in some of them?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on March 10, 2010, 11:25:31 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on March 02, 2010, 04:08:40 AM
(http://1.1.1.1/bmi/ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/218Z0XQQSWL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
D.Scarlatti
17 happy freaks
Zhu Xiao-Mei
IMV  019 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T6XF?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00004T6XF)

Wow. wow. wow! What Scarlatti this is! Bolder than her supra-musical
but understated Bach and Haydn... but not as bold and spiky as Pletnev.
Still, it manages just the same amount of rhythmic verve that makes
Pletnev (in my ears) so very special. Hurray, I have a new second-favorite
Scarlatti disc.



Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on March 11, 2010, 03:07:50 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on March 10, 2010, 06:51:05 PM
I am trying to contemplate someone less accomplished than Vivaldi, but I am drawing a blank.
Even though I think are harsh on Vivaldi here, I must admit that the statement you reacted to, drew an uncomprehending reaction with me as well.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2010, 08:52:56 PM
I much prefer Sempe to Hanti in fact.

What do you think of the way he doubles up the harpsichord in some of them?

They are great and just further "amplify" the dramatic artistry of the lead keyboard, increased dynamic range and fullness of sound, basically you are using a lead harpsicord and a continuo harpsicord. I was feeling the "duende"

Sempe mentions in the notes it is not uncommon to have 2 and 3 harpsicord performances at that time as evidenced by Bach's well know keyboard concertos for 2 and 3 harpsicords.....

I have many of Sempe's solo harpsicord works now and will watch him closely
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 04:26:06 AM
Bunny and Jens.......
are very strong advocates for Zhu Xiao-Mei but to be honest I like harpsicord much more than piano for Scarlatti sonatas.....and I do have Pletnev, Sudbin, Horowitz etc piano CDs.

Piano just sounds slightly bare compared to the florid richness a skilled harpsicord player can render these works in, a more baroque sound that seems to flow better for these works
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on March 11, 2010, 04:35:18 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on January 17, 2010, 03:04:27 PM
Scarlatti was clearly no JS Bach

All right, but I find it quite enough that he was such a fine Scarlatti.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on March 11, 2010, 04:50:57 AM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 04:26:06 AM
Bunny and Jens.......
are very strong advocates for Zhu Xiao-Mei but to be honest I like harpsicord much more than piano for Scarlatti sonatas.....and I do have Pletnev, Sudbin, Horowitz etc piano CDs.

Piano just sounds slightly bare compared to the florid richness a skilled harpsicord player can render these works in, a more baroque sound that seems to flow better for these works

That's fine. We're not trying to force apple-tart down a pear-lovers' throat.  Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.
Incidentally I like--in principle--the harpsichord better in Scarlatti, too. But I find that there are more great piano recordings that please me, than there are ones on the harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 08:27:52 AM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 04:14:03 AM

They are great and just further "amplify" the dramatic artistry of the lead keyboard, increased dynamic range and fullness of sound, basically you are using a lead harpsicord and a continuo harpsicord. I was feeling the "duende"

Sempe mentions in the notes it is not uncommon to have 2 and 3 harpsicord performances at that time as evidenced by Bach's well know keyboard concertos for 2 and 3 harpsicords.....

I have many of Sempe's solo harpsicord works now and will watch him closely

Bulldog would not be a fan of these two keyboard sonatas I predict........
The rich "wet" reverberant  soundfield would obscure the clarity of line he prefers, but I love them

Samples from JPC, two harpsicord sonatas tracks 2,7,9,16
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Domenico-Scarlatti-Cembalosonaten-Duende/hnum/1845598 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Domenico-Scarlatti-Cembalosonaten-Duende/hnum/1845598)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Bulldog on March 11, 2010, 08:39:39 AM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 11, 2010, 08:27:52 AM

Bulldog would not be a fan of these two keyboard sonatas I predict........
The rich "wet" reverberant  soundfield would obscure the clarity of line he prefers, but I love them


Thanks for the heads-up, although Scarlatti is not one of my favored composers.  I do have many Scarlatti keyboard discs, but most of them come from friends. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: kishnevi on March 11, 2010, 07:37:25 PM
Another possibility in the Scarlatti recital CD lists:
Racha Arodaky on Zig-Zag Territories (Sonates au Piano)
18 sonatas, K. numbers 466 193 32 1 247 208 209 9 213 427 87 474 457 481 159 462 551 30
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on March 31, 2010, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 10, 2010, 06:26:14 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GAX2STH7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Took my own advice and finally purchased the Scott Ross boxset from UK.......this will take some time to explore

This may turn out to be one of my greatest purchases.......10 Cds into it I jut love what I am hearing!
It is just amazing the consistent quality of these sonatas, there is just no filler or let down, they all represent the highest standards of harpsichord composition, everyone is worth while hearing......I am serious.

Scott Ross deserves his cult reputation for this accomplishment, his imaginative and dramatic playing never sound routine or dull.........just a joy to explore this vast body of work.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on March 31, 2010, 12:55:50 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on March 31, 2010, 12:39:07 PM

This may turn out to be one of my greatest purchases.......10 Cds into it I jut love what I am hearing!
It is just amazing the consistent quality of these sonatas, there is just no filler or let down, they all represent the highest standards of harpsichord composition, everyone is worth while hearing......I am serious.

Scott Ross deserves his cult reputation for this accomplishment, his imaginative and dramatic playing never sound routine or dull.........just a joy to explore this vast body of work.

A can't agree more with everything you've said. It's a pleasure to hear it from someone who just made the discovery and to be reminded of my own excitement when I did the same. :)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: dirkronk on March 31, 2010, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Que on March 31, 2010, 12:55:50 PM
A can't agree more with everything you've said. It's a pleasure to hear it from someone who just made the discovery and to be reminded of my own excitement when I did the same. :)

Q

There was an old friend of mine here in San Antonio named Bill Case. Legally blind since he was very young, he played piano in jazz ensembles before WWII and ran the city's first serious hi-fi shop for about four or more decades after the war. In his last years of retirement, his late 80s through his death at 95, he "discovered" the internet and utilized it to download sheet music for Scarlatti's sonatas, which he then blew up so he could see the notes...and he spent countless hours playing that music, for his own sheer enjoyment. Never got to hear him doing it--he was reticent to let others hear until he'd gotten things down well--but I think about him frequently when I put on an LP or CD of Scarlatti myself.

Dirk
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on April 11, 2010, 01:20:59 PM
Quote from: Que on March 31, 2010, 12:55:50 PM
A can't agree more with everything you've said. It's a pleasure to hear it from someone who just made the discovery and to be reminded of my own excitement when I did the same. :)

I have made it to CD 21 of the complete Scott Ross set, and there is no way to ever go back to Belden/Brilliant after this.

I have noticed that Ross did not often use lute stop effects, but on sonata K 335 he does a neat trick where on 2 manual harpsicord the lute stop is only applied to one manual and other plays normally. The result sounds like a 2 instrument sonata between guitar/lute and harpsichord......one hand plays each. You can now clearly hear the complex interplay between each hand during the sonata, gives you a new respect for the artistry involved here of Scarlatti.......

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GAX2STH7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 11, 2010, 02:06:42 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on April 11, 2010, 01:20:59 PM

I have made it to CD 21 of the complete Scott Ross set, and there is no way to ever go back to Belden/Brilliant after this.


DA - glad that you're enjoying the Scott Ross Scarlatti set - for myself, just own the first 3-disc volume of Belder - decided not to buy into him any further w/ the varied opinions; also have 3 discs of Hantai, which I do enjoy.

But now anxious to experience these Ross' performances - HEY, maybe Brilliant can license these recordings and offer them at a decent price?   ;) ;D  Dave
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on April 11, 2010, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 11, 2010, 02:06:42 PM
DA - glad that you're enjoying the Scott Ross Scarlatti set - for myself, just own the first 3-disc volume of Belder - decided not to buy into him any further w/ the varied opinions; also have 3 discs of Hantai, which I do enjoy.

But now anxious to experience these Ross' performances - HEY, maybe Brilliant can license these recordings and offer them at a decent price?   ;) ;D  Dave

I took a look at this Warner set a while back but really did not have a strong conviction for having a 33-CD Scarlatti's Complete Harpsichord Works set in my classical music collection.  While I may have many Beethoven Symphonies cycles and Bach Complete Organ Works, Scarlatti was no Bach or Beethoven.  Perhaps I will change my mind ...    :-\
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 11, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on April 11, 2010, 02:12:24 PM
I took a look at this Warner set a while back but really did not have a strong conviction for having a 33-CD Scarlatti's Complete Harpsichord Works................ Perhaps I will change my mind ...    :-\

Stuart - I'm in the same 'frame of mind', i.e. who needs 555 Scarlatti sonatas?  :o  But, OTOH, if the performances are great and the PRICE is right, then why not?  At the moment for me, the price is just not right - might be in the future?  Dave  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on April 11, 2010, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 11, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Stuart - I'm in the same 'frame of mind', i.e. who needs 555 Scarlatti sonatas?  :o  But, OTOH, if the performances are great and the PRICE is right, then why not?  At the moment for me, the price is just not right - might be in the future?  Dave  :D

Currently, the best price on Amazon US is $168.  While I would not have any hesitation if it was the complete Bach Cantatas set by the right conductor/ensemble, spending that amount on the complete Scarlatti harpsichord works would have been a bit far-fetched for me as well.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: DarkAngel on April 11, 2010, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 11, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Stuart - I'm in the same 'frame of mind', i.e. who needs 555 Scarlatti sonatas?  :o  But, OTOH, if the performances are great and the PRICE is right, then why not?  At the moment for me, the price is just not right - might be in the future?  Dave  :D

MDT seems to be best price at $111, I got this at huge Xmas boxset sale there for $90  :)

Amazon USA much higher...... :(

If I can again emphasize (Que will back me up) there is no filler here, all these sonatas are very good even the earliest ones and Scott Ross set will almost certainly never be bettered (don't think Hantai, Rousset etc have the time or energy to undertake a massive project like this today) this is the gold standard set
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Coopmv on April 11, 2010, 02:33:37 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on April 11, 2010, 02:30:35 PM

MDT seems to be best price at $111, I got this at huge Xmas boxset sale there for $90  :)

Amazon USA much higher...... :(

If I can again emphasize (Que will back me up) there is no filler here, all these sonatas are very good even the earliest ones and Scott Ross set will almost certainly never be bettered (don't think Hantai, Rousset etc have the time or energy to undertake a massive project like this today) this is the gold standard set

The best bet is still to wait for a good sale at Presto since this box set will cost quite a bit to ship from MDT compared with the flat rate at Presto ...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on April 11, 2010, 02:38:58 PM
Actually, the best price is (or was) 75 Quid (Pounds) on Amazon.co.uk. That's when I could no longer resist. Am on disc 7 now. Very solid, very good... and yes, better, from my thus-far limited exposure, than Belder and Lester. Even at 82 Pounds it's a pretty good catch. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0009MWAVQ?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguideuk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B0009MWAVQ) I don't think Hantai will record the whole shabang, either... I do believe that might be excessive, anyway. I'm glad if great harpsichordists (and pianists) keep picking their favorites [preferably not always the same ones] and give them thoughtful renderings.

And for those who do like their Scarlatti on the piano (and not necessarily 31 discs of it), here's good news:

Alexandre Tharaud's next disc will be Scarlatti.

Great news, because just before he was giving his seventh (!) encore at the Theatre des Champs Elysees, as I was reflecting on modest Schubert, very fine Chopin, and great Bach, Couperin, and Rameau encores, I caught myself thinking: If his next five discs were all Scarlatti, I'd be a happy, happy man. Sure enough, somewhere between the Oysters and the grilled Sole he mentioned that that'd be his next recording. Sweet.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on April 11, 2010, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: DarkAngel on April 11, 2010, 02:30:35 PM

If I can again emphasize (Que will back me up) there is no filler here, all these sonatas are very good even the earliest ones (...)

Absolutely! ;D In that respect Scarlatti's sonatas are as "daunting" as Bach's cantatas: both are a vast body of superb music, which might be a bit off-putting.

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on April 16, 2010, 07:42:15 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on April 11, 2010, 02:38:58 PM


And for those who do like their Scarlatti on the piano (and not necessarily 31 discs of it), here's good news:

Alexandre Tharaud's next disc will be Scarlatti.

the little essay from which the announcement comes:
Paris in Passing (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/04/paris-in-passing.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on April 16, 2010, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 11, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Stuart - I'm in the same 'frame of mind', i.e. who needs 555 Scarlatti sonatas?  :o 
I'm long past the "needs" stage and will probably order it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2010, 10:35:13 AM
Scarlatti is not frequently played on fortepiano -at the moment I just recall Aline Zylberajch and Pieter-Jan Belder-, but THIS (http://www.quadroframe.com/index.php?id=37) double-disc of Laura Alvini sounds attractive in these ears:

(http://www.quadroframe.com/typo3temp/pics/a0665d4620.jpg)

:)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on May 26, 2010, 10:38:09 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2010, 10:29:55 AM
Scarlatti is not frequently played on fortepiano -at the moment I just recall Aline Zylberajch and Pieter-Jan Belder-, but THIS (http://www.quadroframe.com/index.php?id=37) double-disc of Laura Alvini sounds attractive in these ears:

(http://www.quadroframe.com/typo3temp/pics/a0665d4620.jpg)

:)

I agree - what a beautiful instrument! :) Nice playing too, perhaps a bit on the slow side but that might need getting used too.

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on May 26, 2010, 12:01:20 PM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2010, 10:35:13 AM
Scarlatti is not frequently played on fortepiano -at the moment I just recall Aline Zylberajch and Pieter-Jan Belder-, but THIS (http://www.quadroframe.com/index.php?id=37) double-disc of Laura Alvini sounds attractive in these ears:

Alan Planes has recorded K 1 - K30 incl. on a Harmonia Mundi twoofer.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on May 26, 2010, 01:51:29 PM
Quote from: premont on May 26, 2010, 12:01:20 PM
Alan Planes has recorded K 1 - K30 incl. on a Harmonia Mundi twoofer.

so he did, and it's not half-bad: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/06/twang-twang-twang-scarlatti-with-alain.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2010, 05:36:19 PM
Quote from: premont on May 26, 2010, 12:01:20 PM
Alan Planes has recorded K 1 - K30 incl. on a Harmonia Mundi twoofer.

Yes, I forgot that one, probably because I was not very impressed by Planes. On the other hand, I fully enjoyed the interpretations by Aline Zylberajch (pianoforte) and Joanna Leach (English square piano of the XIX century), although the last instrument don't be exactly an instrument of the period.   :)


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on May 27, 2010, 02:35:49 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2010, 05:36:19 PM
Yes, I forgot that one, probably because I was not very impressed by Planes.

IMO he is to nice and decent, but I forgive him, because Scarlatti on fortepiano (and to lesser degree on pianoforte) acquires easily a Dresden-China-like character.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 27, 2010, 07:40:45 AM
Quote from: premont on May 27, 2010, 02:35:49 AM
IMO he is to nice and decent, but I forgive him, because Scarlatti on fortepiano (and to lesser degree on pianoforte) acquires easily a Dresden-China-like character.

"Decent" is fine for me (I think something similar about his last disc Chopin chez Pleyel). But what means "Dresden-China-like character"? I don't understand the concept, sorry.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on May 27, 2010, 07:42:36 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 27, 2010, 07:40:45 AM
"Decent" is fine for me (I think something similar about his last disc Chopin chez Pleyel). But what means "Dresden-China-like character"? I don't understand the concept, sorry.

It's a dainty way of playing the piano (often disparagingly used about someone's approach to Mozart, for example). It means 'afraid of touching with any grit or bite, because it is ever-so delicate. 'Emaciated' might have some overlap with that concept.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 27, 2010, 07:46:02 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on May 27, 2010, 07:42:36 AM
It's a dainty way of playing the piano (often disparagingly used about someone's approach to Mozart, for example). It means 'afraid of touching with any grit or bite, because it is ever-so delicate. 'Emaciated' might have some overlap with that concept.

Thanks, Jens. It's crystal clear now.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on May 27, 2010, 08:57:17 AM
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 27, 2010, 07:40:45 AM
But what means "Dresden-China-like character"? I don't understand the concept, sorry.

This concept is often used to describe an all too feminine "miniaturizing" interpretation of Mozarts music. I hear some not quite unsimilar pling-pling in Planes´ Scarlatti. He should generally have been more virile and bold in these works.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on July 27, 2011, 09:32:57 AM
Let's start a proper thread belonging to Domenico Scarlatti.  (I am, bluntly, appalled that the only thread to which Sara's eminently useful index can point us to, is one of Sean's exercises in bloviation.)

At odd times, I feel almost a desire to make the acquaintance of all the keyboard sonatas.  Some little time ago, I found a 3-fer at Borders (back when they had some selection) of Pieter-Jan Belder (playing variously harpsichord, organ, and fortepiano).  This past November (I think) Amazon advertised the box of Belder playing the complete Sonatas (though I don't suppose there is any such thing, really . . . complete?) at a bargain, but time passed and it was never available and they canceled my order.  The 3-fer I've already got is Vol. VIII, and this week I found more such on Arkivmusic, so I've pulled the trigger on Vols. IX, X & XI.  Chances are, these 12 discs of sonatas will last me fine for a while.

But maybe not forever.

Anybody here at GMG know The Lot?

I have a single disc of (I think) Sergei Schepkin playing an assortment of sonatas, on piano; it's a disc I like very well, but for the long haul, I think I do prefer an instrument of lighter tread . . . especially in the case of some sonatas which feel to me like translated guitar music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on July 27, 2011, 10:18:53 AM
One of my favorite composers since childhood! I received the complete Longo edition in installations, over a series of birthdays and Christmases.  Not the most scholarly edition, I know, and not quite complete, but I spent hours on end playing through these pieces (on piano) and they'll always be special to me.

I think the sonatas translate really well to the piano, and there are glorious performances by Pletnev, Pogorelich, Sudbin, and Horowitz – and worthwhile efforts by the likes of Schiff, Swartzentrubzer, and Fou Ts'Ong. But ultimately I agree – the sonatas come alive on harpsichord. Pierre Hantaï's recordings thrill me, and there is a Trevor Pinnock disc that I enjoy a great deal.

I would love to get my hands on Scott Ross's complete Scarlatti cycle, having heard such great things about it. I was not excited by the Belder I sampled – it seemed generally aloof and low-energy. But in a way Scarlatti and Belder share the blame: Scarlatti wrote maybe 50 to 75 masterpiece-level sonatas, and another 200 or so that are well worth playing and hearing. That's a remarkable achievement, but it leaves hundreds of others that go on a bit long despite moments of inspiration. So it's almost inevitable in the course of a complete cycle that sooner or later a sense of "just getting through them all" kicks in. A complete cycle might still be a worthwhile purchase (I noted earlier my interest in the Ross), if you approach it with the intent of "mining" it for its best tracks, of which there might be a hundred or more.

Anyway, don't let your pursuit of a complete cycle prevent you from hearing the Hantaï discs, especially the 3 relatively recent releases; there's a less essential earlier disc that overlaps the repertoire of those later ones.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Leon on July 27, 2011, 10:30:35 AM
I own the Scott Ross box of all 555 - but have only listened to bits of it.  For a while it was outrageously priced, but I think now it can be had for around $150.

[asin]B0009MWAVQ[/asin]

Ross's performances are generally thought to be very good, but I have no basis for comparison with Belder.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 27, 2011, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: PaulSC on July 27, 2011, 10:18:53 AM
But ultimately I agree – the sonatas come alive on harpsichord. Pierre Hantaï's recordings thrill me, and there is a Trevor Pinnock disc that I enjoy a great deal.

I'm not any kind of Scarlatti expert, but Pinnock's disc was one of those which convinced me I could love a harpsichord, and Hantai's selection of 22 sonatas blew me away. In particular the Iberian aspect of Scarlatti comes through on the harpsichord. I remember hearing Hantai's K. 141 for the first time, thinking "Wow, it sounds just like a guitar!"

I also have Sudbin's piano disc, which is nice for a change of pace. That said, I don't think I'll buy any more piano Scarlatti. (For what it's worth, I prefer other late Baroque composers on the piano.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: karlhenning on August 09, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
I'm still making my way, but with great pleasure; and the more I hear of these Pieter-Jan Belder recordings, the better I like them.  Really feel that I could listen to these and nothing else for days.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mn Dave on August 09, 2011, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 09, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
I'm still making my way, but with great pleasure; and the more I hear of these Pieter-Jan Belder recordings, the better I like them.  Really feel that I could listen to these and nothing else for days.

Hey, these are on Spotify. Sweet.  :)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 10, 2011, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: Philoctetes on August 10, 2011, 11:01:56 PM
Queen Maria Barbara of Spain owned five pianos and seven harpsichords and was taught by Domenico Scarlatti from about 1719 until 1757.

It must have been cool to have Scarlatti as your teacher for 38 (count 'em) years.

And Maria Barbara must have been quite a virtuosa in her own right, if those sonatas were written for her.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 08, 2011, 06:19:48 AM

Original and Happy Freaks: Alexandre Tharaud's Latest
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 08, 2011, 06:20:00 AM

Original and Happy Freaks: Alexandre Tharaud's Latest
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on December 08, 2011, 11:22:37 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 08, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
Original and Happy Freaks: Alexandre Tharaud's Latest
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html)

Just the samples in the review are enough for me to get this recording - thanks for sharing it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 08, 2011, 11:57:58 AM
Here on  spotify

http://open.spotify.com/album/3KpiywuYrCdrp8UUNxteCH
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on December 08, 2011, 02:58:47 PM
Listened to Sudbin's today, inspired by this thread. Any listeners to the Alice Ader recital?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Holden on December 08, 2011, 11:01:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 08, 2011, 11:57:58 AM
Here on  spotify

http://open.spotify.com/album/3KpiywuYrCdrp8UUNxteCH

Thank you - I've got MOG and have listened to the whole CD. I'll have to see if MOG has the Alice Ader
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 22, 2011, 03:36:09 AM
It's happened.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 22, 2011, 04:05:03 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on April 11, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Stuart - I'm in the same 'frame of mind', i.e. who needs 555 Scarlatti sonatas?  :o  But, OTOH, if the performances are great and the PRICE is right, then why not?  At the moment for me, the price is just not right - might be in the future?  Dave  :D

Just pulled the trigger, thanks to Santa.  May not arrive until 2012, but that's all right.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 04:22:56 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on December 22, 2011, 04:05:03 AM
Just pulled the trigger, thanks to Santa.  May not arrive until 2012, but that's all right.

Ross or Belder?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 22, 2011, 04:30:34 AM
Ross; I've already got some twelve discs of the Belder.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 09:42:44 AM
I trust you'll enjoy them, Karl! I contemplated the same purchase earlier this week but decided in favor of single-disc Scarlatti recitals by assorted artists — pianists Alexandre Tharaud, Olivier Cave, and Maria Tipo; harpsichordists Elina Mustonen and Wladyslaw Klosiewicz. (All are enjoyable, but the standouts are Tharaud and Klosiewicz.)

For fun, I plan to do a quick inventory of the sonatas that are accounted for in the maybe twenty Scarlatti CDs in my collection. I reckon that it's in the range of 150–200, and that a few sonatas are represented four or five times.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 09:59:28 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 09:42:44 AM
I trust you'll enjoy them, Karl! I contemplated the same purchase earlier this week but decided in favor of single-disc Scarlatti recitals by assorted artists — pianists Alexandre Tharaud, Olivier Cave, and Maria Tipo; harpsichordists Elina Mustonen and Wladyslaw Klosiewicz. (All are enjoyable, but the standouts are Tharaud and Klosiewicz.)

For fun, I plan to do a quick inventory of the sonatas that are accounted for in the maybe twenty Scarlatti CDs in my collection. I reckon that it's in the range of 150–200, and that a few sonatas are represented four or five times.

Individual discs is, as always, the more pricey but neater way to go... and I like your selection. You already have Pletnev, I take it?
But between the two complete sets, it's definitely Ross' that deserves the first nod! Terrific cube to have sitting at home. :-)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 09:59:28 AMYou already have Pletnev, I take it?

Before I divulge anything further about my collection, a little game...

As I mentioned above, I've got around 18 discs' worth of Scarlatti. (Counting gets tricky, because I often buy downloads and in a few cases I've downloaded individual tracks rather than complete discs.) It's a mix of the usual suspects and choices from further off the beaten path. I haven't deliberately avoided duplicating particular sonatas, nor have I sought out duplicates (well, maybe a bit of the latter: I do have my favorites).

I've just worked out which sonatas are the most heavily duplicated in my collection.
Any guesses which ones these are? (Let's talk K numbers rather than L or P...)

Side note: my original estimate of 150–200 sonatas total was spot-on: I've got exactly 175 distinct sonatas...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: petrarch on December 22, 2011, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on December 22, 2011, 04:30:34 AM
Ross

I also have that set, although I haven't heard much beyond the first three or so CDs back in June and July (it's been difficult to find the time to do proper listening).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 11:30:35 AM
Before I divulge anything further about my collection, a little game...

As I mentioned above, I've got around 18 discs' worth of Scarlatti. (Counting gets tricky, because I often buy downloads and in a few cases I've downloaded individual tracks rather than complete discs.) It's a mix of the usual suspects and choices from further off the beaten path. I haven't deliberately avoided duplicating particular sonatas, nor have I sought out duplicates (well, maybe a bit of the latter: I do have my favorites).

I've just worked out which sonatas are the most heavily duplicated in my collection.

  • Two sonatas occur six times each
  • Three others occur five times each
Any guesses which ones these are? (Let's talk K numbers rather than L or P...)

Side note: my original estimate of 150–200 sonatas total was spot-on: I've got exactly 175 distinct sonatas...

Argh... Tempt me not. (Too late... no wait, I can resist. I would spend too much time on that when I have to write-write-write. But I reckon K.141, K.380 and maybe K.64 and K.87.

I give outsider chances to K.8, K.132, K.9, K.492 and K.3 to make multiple appearances. K.466 is one of my favorites... but alas, not among the most popular.
K.30, like Haydn's Symphony No.99, ought to be nicknamed (or is nicknamed) "The Cat".

Should mention I forgot to mention Lester, when talking about complete Scarlatti Sonata Collections, but Lester -- despite good sound and many different instruments -- turns out to be a bit boring.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 01:59:15 PM
Argh... Tempt me not. (Too late... no wait, I can resist. I would spend too much time on that when I have to write-write-write. But I reckon K.141, K.380 and maybe K.64 and K.87.

I give outsider chances to K.8, K.132, K.9, K.492 and K.3 to make multiple appearances. K.466 is one of my favorites... but alas, not among the most popular.
K.30, like Haydn's Symphony No.99, ought to be nicknamed (or is nicknamed) "The Cat".

Should mention I forgot to mention Lester, when talking about complete Scarlatti Sonata Collections, but Lester -- despite good sound and many different instruments -- turns out to be a bit boring.

I'm tempted to drop hints, but I don't want to interfere with your need to write-write-write, since I will probably want to read-read-read the results. Anyway, you've done a superb job guessing, considering that what I own isn't entirely representative of the overall recorded catalog.

K.141 — I would have predicted more, but I only have 4
K.380 — BINGO (I've got 5)
K.64 — only 2!
K.87 — BINGO (5)
K.8 — 4
K.132 — only 2!
K.9 (which ought to be nicknamed "The Dog") — 4
K.492 — BINGO (6!, often in the company of K.490 and/or K.491, the latter being one of my favorites)
K.3 — only 3!

The other most represented sonatas in the house are:
K.27 (B minor) — 6
K.513 (C major, Pastorale followed by Presto) — 5
K.545 (B-flat major, Prestissimo beginning with broken thirds) — 5
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 23, 2011, 04:19:08 AM
All in all, well done, Jens!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 23, 2011, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 22, 2011, 01:59:15 PM
Should mention I forgot to mention Lester, when talking about complete Scarlatti Sonata Collections, but Lester -- despite good sound and many different instruments -- turns out to be a bit boring.

Yes,(compared to Ross and Belder) Lester is a bit unimaginative.

What about Gilbert Rowland´s integral. I do not know it - any thoughts?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 23, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 22, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
...other most represented sonatas in the house are:
K.27 (B minor) — 6
K.513 (C major, Pastorale followed by Presto) — 5

These are surely the most represented items in my collection, along with K 517 (at least 7 versions), but is the often recorded  K 517 not represented in your collection at all?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 23, 2011, 01:30:30 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 23, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
These are surely the most represented items in my collection, along with K 517 (at least 7 versions), but is the often recorded  K 517 not represented in your collection at all?
It's there, but not at the top, frequency-wise. I've got three recordings: Hantai, Pinnock, and Schiff.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 24, 2011, 02:10:43 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 23, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
These are surely the most represented items in my collection, along with K 517 (at least 7 versions), but is the often recorded  K 517 not represented in your collection at all?

I know nothing about Rowland's Scarlatti, unfortunately.

It might be interesting to see if there are some sonatas that are significantly more popular with harpsichordists over pianists and vice versa.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 25, 2011, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on December 24, 2011, 02:10:43 AM
It might be interesting to see if there are some sonatas that are significantly more popular with harpsichordists over pianists and vice versa.

Yes, I have harboured similar thoughts.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on December 26, 2011, 12:22:57 AM
Stupid question but I never learn if I don't ask:

Are Scarlatti's sonatas REAL sonatas? Do they really fulfill sonata form? I ask this because they are so short. The shortest I have is 1:55 (K. 523) and the longest is 12:34 (K. 402). The average length seems to be less than 5 minutes. To me Scarlatti's sonatas are "just" short pieces rather than sonatas. On the other hand sonata form was only developing at that time and was considerably developed further after Scarlatti (e.g. Beethoven).

Opinions?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 26, 2011, 01:38:09 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on December 26, 2011, 12:22:57 AM
Stupid question but I never learn if I don't ask:

Are Scarlatti's sonatas REAL sonatas? Do they really fulfill sonata form? I ask this because they are so short. The shortest I have is 1:55 (K. 523) and the longest is 12:34 (K. 402). The average length seems to be less than 5 minutes. To me Scarlatti's sonatas are "just" short pieces rather than sonatas. On the other hand sonata form was only developing at that time and was considerably developed further after Scarlatti (e.g. Beethoven).

Opinions?

They're called that for lack of a better name; Scarlatti certainly didn't name them "Sonatas" himself; several of his earlier published ones were called "Essercizi (per gravicembalo)".
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 71 dB on December 26, 2011, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: Philoctetes on December 26, 2011, 01:06:50 AM
They are real, and it isn't an opinion.
Quote from: jlaurson on December 26, 2011, 01:38:09 AM
They're called that for lack of a better name; Scarlatti certainly didn't name them "Sonatas" himself; several of his earlier published ones were called "Essercizi (per gravicembalo)".

:D  ;D  ::)

What jlaurson writes is more or less what I think myself.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 26, 2011, 09:37:46 AM
The term "sonata" has a long history prior to the codification of "sonata form" in the Classical period. Originally, it was a relatively vague designation for instrumental rather than vocal music, and it often referred to instrumental music other than dances, simply because dances had names of their own.

But even in the modern sense of the term, Scarlatti's sonatas can be seen as an interesting step in the evolution of the form. On the one hand, the great majority of them are basically binary forms, consisting of two balanced halves, whereas sonata form is more closely related to rounded binary form, in which the second half is expanded up front by contrasting and potentially developmental material. But on the other hand, in Scarlatti we already find a decisive modulation to a secondary key (most often the dominant in major keys and the relative major and minor keys) with cadential punctuation and often with new thematic material in the new key.

Kirkpatrick notes that the material beyond this turning point within the first half (a point that he calls the "crux"), is often more generic, consisting of scales, arpeggios, and repeated cadential formulas. It therefore has a lot in common with the closing theme or closing theme-group of a modern sonata form.

Of course in the modern sense, the term "sonata" refers to TWO related formal concepts. One is the multi-movement template (fast-slow-fast, or fast-slow-moderate-fast) commonly applied in the composition of large-scale solo keyboard and accompanied instrumental solo works. One might say this is a genre more than a form. The other, known more specifically as sonata-allegro or single-movement-sonata form, is characteristic of the first movement of these and other multi-movement works, but was also used in the design of some slow movements and occasionally finales.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on January 03, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
Quote from: stingo on January 03, 2012, 03:06:01 PM
Interesting - I'm listening to the Belder traversal of the Scarlatti sonatas and like it a lot. I wonder how they compare to the Ross set. Anyone know?

Based on a couple of discs of the Belder series I tried, I much prefer Scott Ross. But, to make it more confusing: opinions on this are divided on the forum....

Is Belder's Scarlatti too sober, rather wooden and akward, missing that typical rhythmic Neapolitan knack and has Scott Ross just that and is he totally submerged in Scarlatti's musical world with a total command and supreme technique or.... is Belder more reflective and human and is Scott Ross too fast & flashy, glossing over the music? ::)

I leave it to you - I would sample or try the single disc with selections from the Ross edition. :)

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on January 03, 2012, 10:26:17 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 03, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
Based on a couple of discs of the Belder series I tried, I much prefer Scott Ross. But, to make it more confusing: opinions on this are divided on the forum....

Is Belder's Scarlatti too sober, rather wooden and akward, missing that typical rhythmic Neapolitan knack and has Scott Ross just that and is he totally submerged in Scarlatti's musical world with a total command and supreme technique or.... is Belder more reflective and human and is Scott Ross too fast & flashy, glossing over the music? ::)

I leave it to you - I would sample or try the single disc with selections from the Ross edition. :)


I have both sets (not that I've surveyed all of it, yet) and like Belder (Ionarts: Some Scarlatti (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/02/some-scarlatti.html)), but take my hat off to Ross.

QuoteI've heard the latest nine CDs in the three volumes – 10 to 12 – here discussed, which were all recorded in the Spring of 2007. That's a lot of learning, playing, and recording to do – but still nothing compared to the rush with which Scott Ross recorded his entire cycle in a year and a half. Critical ears will inevitably notice Ross having some less felicitous moments, the kind of which I did not hear in Belder. But Ross, at his best, also plays with the kind of affection and in such an affecting way that the best of Belder in these sets cannot compete.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 04, 2012, 03:04:33 AM
Most interesting. I've just started tucking into the Ross set...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Geo Dude on January 09, 2012, 08:16:37 AM
Fascinating thread here that seems to have been cobbled together from a few separate threads.  There's even a mention of Waylon Jennings!  Right now the only Scarlatti I have on hand is Hantai's first disc, back in the 'wild years' of his youth, but #1 and #3 of the Mirare recordings have been ordered and #2 shall be ordered soon.  I've also placed an order at amazon.ca for the Belder box on the off chance that they ever get it back in stock.  If not, I'll probably eventually grab the Ross box on the market place.  Based on the available material on YouTube both are fine players.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 09, 2012, 08:29:40 AM
Yes, I've got 12 discs' worth of Belder's set, and I won't hear a word against him : )

Incidentally, just listened to disc 4 of the Ross set, and I smiled to hear a fugue . . . I just hadn't thought of Scarlatti and fugue going together.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on April 09, 2012, 08:35:59 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 26, 2011, 09:37:46 AM
The term "sonata" has a long history prior to the codification of "sonata form" in the Classical period. Originally, it was a relatively vague designation for instrumental rather than vocal music, and it often referred to instrumental music other than dances, simply because dances had names of their own.

But even in the modern sense of the term, Scarlatti's sonatas can be seen as an interesting step in the evolution of the form. On the one hand, the great majority of them are basically binary forms, consisting of two balanced halves, whereas sonata form is more closely related to rounded binary form, in which the second half is expanded up front by contrasting and potentially developmental material. But on the other hand, in Scarlatti we already find a decisive modulation to a secondary key (most often the dominant in major keys and the relative major and minor keys) with cadential punctuation and often with new thematic material in the new key.

Kirkpatrick notes that the material beyond this turning point within the first half (a point that he calls the "crux"), is often more generic, consisting of scales, arpeggios, and repeated cadential formulas. It therefore has a lot in common with the closing theme or closing theme-group of a modern sonata form.

Of course in the modern sense, the term "sonata" refers to TWO related formal concepts. One is the multi-movement template (fast-slow-fast, or fast-slow-moderate-fast) commonly applied in the composition of large-scale solo keyboard and accompanied instrumental solo works. One might say this is a genre more than a form. The other, known more specifically as sonata-allegro or single-movement-sonata form, is characteristic of the first movement of these and other multi-movement works, but was also used in the design of some slow movements and occasionally finales.

Do you the majority of pieces designated by a Kirkpatrick number is binary in form? Or do you mean that the sonatas in fact often come in pairs, made up of two pieces with different K- numbers? (or both or neither  :) )

I remember I once read that some come in pairs. I've never studied music and I haven't pursued it. But I have been struck sometimes by who some of the consecutive sonatas in Pletnev's CDs seem to go together to make larger pieces, and I've always had it at the back of my mind to explore this further. Hence this post.

By the way I was lurking on this board because I discovered an absolutely glorious Scarlatti sonata for the first time to day, or at least if I had heard it before I'd forgotten: K296
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 12, 2012, 06:09:46 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on December 12, 2012, 05:55:00 AM
D. Scarlatti — Sonata in G K.455, Allegro — Pieter-Jan Belder
JS Bach — Fuga from the Sonata № 1 in g minor for violin solo, BWV 1001 — Gidon Kremer
D. Scarlatti — Sonata in D K.491, Allegro — Pieter-Jan Belder
JS Bach — Fuga from the Sonata № 2 in a minor for violin solo, BWV 1003 — Gidon Kremer
D. Scarlatti — Sonata in E K.531, Allegro — Scott Ross
JS Bach — Fuga from the Sonata № 3 in C for violin solo, BWV 1005 — Gidon Kremer
D. Scarlatti — Sonata in D K.96, Allegrissimo — Scott Ross

The four Scarlatti sonatas selected here are a not-entirely-private joke; anyone picked up on it?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on December 12, 2012, 07:34:43 AM
Not all that new, but perhaps not previously linked to: A survey of Tharaud's newish Scarlatti with sound clips comparing him to others... both pianists and harpsichordists:


Original and Happy Freaks: Alexandre Tharaud's Scarlatti (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 12, 2012, 11:49:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 09, 2012, 08:35:59 AM
Do you the majority of pieces designated by a Kirkpatrick number is binary in form? Or do you mean that the sonatas in fact often come in pairs, made up of two pieces with different K- numbers? (or both or neither  :) )

I remember I once read that some come in pairs. I've never studied music and I haven't pursued it. But I have been struck sometimes by who some of the consecutive sonatas in Pletnev's CDs seem to go together to make larger pieces, and I've always had it at the back of my mind to explore this further. Hence this post.
A very belated reply...

I meant the former: the great majority of individual Scarlatti sonatas are organized as binary forms. Regarding the pairing of these pieces, some or all of the sonatas are presented this way in the Kirkpatrick edition — sorry to be vague, it's been ages since I've seen it. I don't know if this was simply a novel idea of Kirkpatrick's, or if it follows from some theory that the pairings were intended by the composer. I do know that the earlier Longo edition arranges the sonatas rather arbitrarily into longer suites based on commonality of key. I suspect Longo would not have done this if he had possessed evidence for Kirkpatrick's pairings.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on December 12, 2012, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on December 12, 2012, 06:09:46 AM
The four Scarlatti sonatas selected here are a not-entirely-private joke; anyone picked up on it?
You've switched them back off?

(To clarify: they're the four sonatas W Carlos recorded, switched-on style...)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 13, 2012, 08:54:38 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 12, 2012, 11:49:17 AM
A very belated reply...

I meant the former: the great majority of individual Scarlatti sonatas are organized as binary forms. Regarding the pairing of these pieces, some or all of the sonatas are presented this way in the Kirkpatrick edition — sorry to be vague, it's been ages since I've seen it. I don't know if this was simply a novel idea of Kirkpatrick's, or if it follows from some theory that the pairings were intended by the composer. I do know that the earlier Longo edition arranges the sonatas rather arbitrarily into longer suites based on commonality of key. I suspect Longo would not have done this if he had possessed evidence for Kirkpatrick's pairings.

I have done quite a bit of listening and thinking since I made that post and I'd kind of guessed that that's what you meant.

I have very ambivalent views about HIP Scarlatti. Mostly I just find the music too soulless, and too geared to showing off the skills of the keyboard player. Too much like a firework display. Sometimes I like this -- I like Skip Sempe's Scarlatti CD for example. But at the end of the day I suspect he was a pretty shallow composer compared with Bach (and yes -- I know that he was an influence on Bach), or F Couperin or Froberger. I feel this even about the later sonatas -- 450+

And yet I do sometimes catch glimpses of humanity and depth. There is the extraordinary second record that Leonhardt made: this seems so very different from most  other records of Scarlatti sonatas I've ever heard, except maybe for Marco Farolfi and perhaps Enrico  Baiano. And  so much more meaningful and humane.

(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/004/197/0000419735_350.jpg)

It's a very different matter for modern pianists like Gilels, who presumably don't care at all about historical authenticity and find in the music a means to express their own ideas. These  pianists can be deep alright.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 13, 2012, 08:57:05 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 12, 2012, 03:10:43 PM
You've switched them back off?

(To clarify: they're the four sonatas W Carlos recorded, switched-on style...)

Oh, I understood directly, of course, and indeed you're right.

Curious to think it, now, but that was the first I ever heard of Scarlatti, or heard his music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on December 13, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2012, 08:54:38 AM
. . . so very different from all other records of Scarlatti sonatas I've ever heard, so much more meaningful and humane.

Must say that when I read remarks like that, my first impulse is to suspect that the music has been anachronistically Romantified.

I mean, maybe not, but . . . .
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 15, 2012, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on December 13, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
Must say that when I read remarks like that, my first impulse is to suspect that the music has been anachronistically Romantified.

I mean, maybe not, but . . . .


Well, I own the Scarlatti recordings of the three harpsichordists in question (Leonhardt, Baiano and Farolfi - the last one acquired on the recommendation of Mandryka), and I do not think they romantifie the music at all, but rather express true baroque affects. As to Baiano he seems to have done considerations on the early baroque dramatic toccata-style (e.g. Frescobaldi, Picchi) - an impression I also get BTW from the playing of Pierre Hantaï.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2012, 02:38:37 AM
I just tried to search for reviews of Leonhardt's DHM Scarlatti and found nothing on the web. The style's different from his first Scarlatti record, which admittedly I don't know as well, it hasn't created such a favourable impression with me.  It's would be surprising if no one commented on the DHM CD when it was released.

I shall try to revisit that first Scarlatti CD. It would be very surprising if Leonhardt's later style wasn't informed historically. Maybe others don't hear the same humanity that I hear in the DHM; maybe the effect comes simply from his choice of sonatas. I don't know.


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 16, 2012, 02:52:47 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 16, 2012, 02:38:37 AM
I just tried to search for reviews of Leonhardt's DHM Scarlatti and found nothing on the web. The style's different from his first Scarlatti record, which admittedly I don't know as well, it hasn't created such a favourable impression with me.  It's would be surprising if no one commented on the CD when it was released.

I shall try to revisit that first Scarlatti CD. It would be very surprising if Leonhardt's later style wasn't informed historically. Maybe others don't hear the same humanity that I hear in the DHM; maybe the effect comes simply from his choice of sonatas. I don't know.

I know the CD, you call his second Scarlatti CD - the DHM. Other than that he recorded a few (three as far as I recall) of the sonatas for Telefunken, and I have never heard of others, but you may be better informed.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2012, 04:13:00 AM
What I thought  of as the first Scarlatti CD is this one

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n27kzt5bL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

It contains 14 sonatas, several  presented in pairs, all different from the ones on the DHM. But I see I've got things completely wrong. The first is the DHM (1970) and the second is the Seon (1978)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2012, 06:58:16 AM
Well I listened again to the Sony Scarlatti and I thought it was wonderful, every but as wonderful as the DHM.

One thing I've learned from going to harpsichord recitals is that you really need to keep the volume down on your amp. That made  a huge difference to the impact of this CD. Maybe my previous negative reaction was caused by the nasty sound which results from playing it too loud.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 16, 2012, 07:46:29 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 16, 2012, 04:13:00 AM
What I thought  of as the first Scarlatti CD is this one

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n27kzt5bL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

It contains 14 sonatas, several  presented in pairs, all different from the ones on the DHM. But I see I've got things completely wrong. The first is the DHM (1970) and the second is the Seon (1978)

Thanks Mandryka. I happen to own both the recordings, but I never listened to the Sony, because I thought it was identical with the DHM. This is the problem of getting lots of CDs in big boxes. One does not get the time to study all the content sufficiently.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ten thumbs on December 17, 2012, 06:23:58 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on December 12, 2012, 11:49:17 AM
A very belated reply...

I meant the former: the great majority of individual Scarlatti sonatas are organized as binary forms. Regarding the pairing of these pieces, some or all of the sonatas are presented this way in the Kirkpatrick edition — sorry to be vague, it's been ages since I've seen it. I don't know if this was simply a novel idea of Kirkpatrick's, or if it follows from some theory that the pairings were intended by the composer. I do know that the earlier Longo edition arranges the sonatas rather arbitrarily into longer suites based on commonality of key. I suspect Longo would not have done this if he had possessed evidence for Kirkpatrick's pairings.

The pairings in the Kirkpatrick edition are not his own but taken from the collections that were his source. That they are intentional is probable because composers who followed, such as Soler and Blasco de Nebra did write sonatas in two or even three movements.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on December 17, 2012, 07:03:51 AM
In January pianist Joseph Moog is releasing a CD (on Onyx) of reworkings of Scarlatti sonatas by latter-day pianists, including Carl Tausig, Ignaz Friedmann, and Walter Gieseking.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on December 17, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
Quote from: Brian on December 17, 2012, 07:03:51 AM
In January pianist Joseph Moog is releasing a CD (on Onyx) of reworkings of Scarlatti sonatas by latter-day pianists, including Carl Tausig, Ignaz Friedmann, and Walter Gieseking.

As far as I know Friedman recorded just the Scarlatti/Tausig Pastorale. I had no idea he made his own transcriptions. Neither did I know that Gieseking transcribed Scarlatti.

Which of the Scarlatti sonatas were written for piano? Which sonatas need to be majorly transcribed to fit on one keyboard?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on December 17, 2012, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 17, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
As far as I know Friedman recorded just the Scarlatti/Tausig Pastorale. I had no idea he made his own transcriptions. Neither did I know that Gieseking transcribed Scarlatti.

Which of the Scarlatti sonatas were written for piano? Which sonatas need to be majorly transcribed to fit on one keyboard?
I really can't answer any of your questions - Onyx hasn't released much info. I do know there is a Naxos album of all the Scarlatti sonata arrangements by Enrique Granados.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 17, 2012, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: Ten thumbs on December 17, 2012, 06:23:58 AM
The pairings in the Kirkpatrick edition are not his own but taken from the collections that were his source. That they are intentional is probable because composers who followed, such as Soler and Blasco de Nebra did write sonatas in two or even three movements.

As far as I have understood the subject, it happens  frequently in the manuscripts, that one sonata is followed by another sonata in a similar key, but there is no concrete indication of any pairing.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on December 17, 2012, 09:30:10 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 17, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
Which of the Scarlatti sonatas were written for piano?

There is no authentic indication of this. We have to use our stylistical "common sense".
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2013, 12:11:43 AM
There's lots of Lena Jacobson playing Scarlatti on youtube, here's an example from of her way K87 -- I chose that one because it's so familiar.

https://www.youtube.com/v/m6akMXAZ3t8

I'm holding back from commenting until I've had a chance to think about what she does. I find Scarlatti's music very challenging.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 01, 2013, 01:53:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 01, 2013, 12:11:43 AM
There's lots of Lena Jacobson playing Scarlatti on youtube, here's an example from of her way K87 -- I chose that one because it's so familiar.

https://www.youtube.com/v/m6akMXAZ3t8

I'm holding back from commenting until I've had a chance to think about what she does. I find Scarlatti's music very challenging.

She is just playing rhythmically very free (could be anticipated). As I wrote about her live Buxtehude CD (DHM) I think she has some interesting ideas, but that she overdoes the point. The interpretation of Matteo Messori (link below) is also rhythmically free, but more balanced, and I find the expressive effect of his playing much more convincing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll-L6_hDflw
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 04, 2013, 09:44:04 AM
I like that Mateo Messori performance. I've got his Brilliant box with AoF and Opfer you know,  but I haven't really begun to explore it yet.

There's an essay by Sergio and Maddalena Vartolo called John Sebastian Bach, Homo Universalis where they say someting very provocative about Scarlatti:

QuoteIt is necessary to make radical changes to the structure  [of The Goldberg Variations]  for the interpretation on the modern piano of harpsichord repertoire,  although with great fascination when this is realised by a great performer: in this case Scarlatti takes on a light character that does not do justice to the  reserved and profound genius of this modest southerner whose vein of melancholy, so well underlined in the Portuguese portrait that shows his elegant aristocratic features, is enhanced by its intermixture with the austere spirit of Spain. (My italics)

Anyway that comment has helped me to get a bit clearer about what I want from Scarlatti, something I was not getting from most performances on record that I've heard. And it's helped me understand a bit better what Vartolo's up to in his Scarlatti recording, which had been a closed book to me until I read that.



(http://assets.passionato.com/sergio-vartolo-domenico-scarlatti-complete-sonatas-vol-3_w200.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on January 04, 2013, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 04, 2013, 09:44:04 AM
Quotein this case Scarlatti takes on a light character
What do they mean by "in this case"? If they mean performance on a modern piano, in general, then I think there are plenty of counter-examples where the effect is anything but light. (But there are also plenty of sonatas in which lightness is welcome.) 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Ten thumbs on January 04, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 17, 2012, 09:03:02 AM

Which of the Scarlatti sonatas were written for piano? Which sonatas need to be majorly transcribed to fit on one keyboard?

Research to date has not found any evidence that Scarlatti had access to a piano. Certainly there was no such instrument in the palace inventories.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2013, 03:04:08 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on January 04, 2013, 12:54:03 PM

What do they mean by "in this case"? If they mean performance on a modern piano, in general, then I think there are plenty of counter-examples where the effect is anything but light. (But there are also plenty of sonatas in which lightness is welcome.)

It's hard to say what they meant. Somehow, with harpsichordists, I'm more often  aware of the clashing chords that you get in some of the sonatas. I don't know whether lightness is the word for what you hear from some pianists on a modern piano. Sweetness maybe.


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on January 05, 2013, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 05, 2013, 03:04:08 AM
It's hard to say what they meant. Somehow, with harpsichordists, I'm more often  aware of the clashing chords that you get in some of the sonatas. I don't know whether lightness is the word for what you hear from some pianists on a modern piano. Sweetness maybe.
That nails it, I think! Probably a combination of the temperament and the timbre of the instrument. (For these same reasons, atonal harmony doesn't "read" very clearly on the harpsichord.) Some pianists compensate with a degree of aggression - Horowitz and Sudbin come to mind; I enjoy it but don't need it.

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 06, 2013, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on January 05, 2013, 12:25:54 PM
That nails it, I think! Probably a combination of the temperament and the timbre of the instrument. (For these same reasons, atonal harmony doesn't "read" very clearly on the harpsichord.) Some pianists compensate with a degree of aggression - Horowitz and Sudbin come to mind; I enjoy it but don't need it.

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]

Noted. Though as I suggested in some post above, my feelings about Scarlatti's music, at least as it's mostly presented, are very mixed, mainly negative, and mostly I just feel that he's not a composer for me, at least when played authentically. Just the occasional glimmer of something special, like in that Vartolo CD, makes me persevere.

One set of  records which which I have been exploring with some pleasure is Blandine Verlet's four CDs. Do you know them? As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.

I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: PaulSC on January 06, 2013, 10:45:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 06, 2013, 12:09:28 AM
One set of  records which which I have been exploring with some pleasure is Blandine Verlet's four CDs. Do you know them? As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.
I will have to watch for the Verlet recordings; I don't know them but I bet I would enjoy them.
Quote
I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.
Indeed! Scarlatti often wrote in remote keys and made bold modulations.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: petrarch on January 07, 2013, 10:17:53 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 06, 2013, 12:09:28 AM
As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.

I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.

Had an idea: Sonatas for Well-Tempered Harpsichordist ;).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2013, 01:07:27 PM
You know, I think Frith's  is probably the most enjoyable Scarlatti piano CD I've ever heard. His style - emotionally he can do whatever he feels the music requires: strength, sadness, yearning, joy etc; he doesn't use obviously intrusive rubato or agogics; textures are very clear; there's absolutely no sense of these pieces being vacuous bravura music - it's always the melody and counterpoint which make the sonatas worth hearing, not the speed or skill of execution; he uses a modern piano, the touch is quite pianistic, but not at all hard; tonally he's no Sokolov, it's not chocolate and bronze, but the sound he makes is silver without being steely, pewter in fact, and that seems right for this music. I can listen to the whole disc without feeling boredom setting in and most of the sonatas are pretty rare outside of big surveys, chosen from early and late music.

That makes two very fine Scarlatti CDs I've found recently, both very different fro each othet. This one from Frith and the bold, innovative harpsichord one from Leonardo Carrieri. Carrieri is more wild than Frith, more astonishing harmonically and rhythmically.

(http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/708/5550708.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jz6JfTFmL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Frith, by the way, was a Hatto Scarlatti pianist. Once again evidence for Barrington-Coupe's impeccable judgement.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 06, 2014, 10:42:04 PM
I've got a question. I'd like to get to know Scarlatti's sonatas better. So far in my listening I have decided

1. I prefer piano to harpsichord
2. I prefer the slower, more introspective sonatas (often minor key)

Can people recommend piano disks that mainly concentrate on the slower, introspective sonatas?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2014, 08:17:43 AM
Quote from: PaulSC on January 05, 2013, 12:25:54 PM

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]

This turned out to be enjoyable. Thanks.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2014, 08:19:26 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on June 06, 2014, 10:42:04 PM
I've got a question. I'd like to get to know Scarlatti's sonatas better. So far in my listening I have decided

1. I prefer piano to harpsichord
2. I prefer the slower, more introspective sonatas (often minor key)

Can people recommend piano disks that mainly concentrate on the slower, introspective sonatas?

Maybe this

(http://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/45/974245.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 07, 2014, 05:58:13 PM
Yes, the Leach disk is just what I wanted! Thanks.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on August 19, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
I do not know enough about the composer's life but to me it seems that it was a conscious choice to write fairly short, picturesque and often manually brilliant pieces instead of more "serious" suites or preludes and fugues. It might have started as literal exercises and in any case these are all comparably late pieces.

Before that Scarlatti wrote among other things a 10 voice Stabat Mater and other church music in a style as severely polyphonic and conservative as anything by JS Bach (and also more conservative than most of the church music of Alessandro Scarlatti who wrote some kind of a fusion between stile antico and espressivo operatic high baroque, often leaning more to the latter).

So while this late focus on one rather particular genre is certainly remarkable, it's actually only one aspect of a composer who was more versatile in his younger years and wrote (albeit very few) extraordinary pieces in a very different genre and style.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: lescamil on August 20, 2015, 10:43:35 PM
Scarlatti actually has a decent number of fugues interspersed with the typical sonata in binary form. There are even a few sonatas that call for solo instrument and continuo, rather than keyboard!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on August 21, 2015, 03:42:19 AM
And some of the sonatas are quite substantial.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 21, 2015, 05:55:12 AM
So which one is the most substantial?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on August 21, 2015, 05:58:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 21, 2015, 05:55:12 AM
So which one is the most substantial?

I should not say that I know them all well enough to answer quite that question.

But two examples of substantial sonatas are the d minor, K.213, and the A Major, K.404.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 21, 2015, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on August 19, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
I do not know enough about the composer's life but to me it seems that it was a conscious choice to write fairly short, picturesque and often manually brilliant pieces instead of more "serious" suites or preludes and fugues. It might have started as literal exercises and in any case these are all comparably late pieces.

Before that Scarlatti wrote among other things a 10 voice Stabat Mater and other church music in a style as severely polyphonic and conservative as anything by JS Bach (and also more conservative than most of the church music of Alessandro Scarlatti who wrote some kind of a fusion between stile antico and espressivo operatic high baroque, often leaning more to the latter).

So while this late focus on one rather particular genre is certainly remarkable, it's actually only one aspect of a composer who was more versatile in his younger years and wrote (albeit very few) extraordinary pieces in a very different genre and style.

There's a recording of D. Scarlatti sonatas by Andrea Marcon, using a suitable Italian organ. He argues (if I remember right) that the sonatas he's chosen may date from a period before AS was churning out sonatas for the princess, when he was a church organist. I'm afraid that all I hear are picturesque and brilliant organ pieces. But it's outstanding playing from Marcon, and I'm glad to have heard it once.

Kirkpatrick claims that when he was working for the princess (whatever her name was, I've forgotten), towards the end the lady became too fat to cross her hands, so AS couldn't write brilliant music stuffed with effects any more. He says that these late sonatas are more reflective than the earlier ones, more internal and more full of feeling (roughly, I'll get the book out later and check what he actually says, but I think it's along those lines.) Unfortunately I must be a pig, because I don't hear a major difference between the late ones and the rest.

The "deepest" Scarlatti performers I know are Leonhardt and Vartolo. But I suspect a lot remains unknown about Scarlatti and there may be harmonic ideas in the sonatas waiting to be revealed by performances on appropriate instruments appropriately tuned. There's a recording of sonatas by Jacqueline Ogeil using a really tastily tuned Christofori and an organ which is really suggestive.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on March 04, 2016, 11:07:40 AM
I am considering Scott Ross' complete set of Scarlatti's sonatas (wanting harpsichord, not fortepiano nor piano).  Currently on sale at $76 CDN at Presto Classical.

Yay or nay?  ;D  :)

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564629945 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564629945)


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on March 04, 2016, 11:25:24 AM
That's a lot of music from a single performer.  I have done it on occassion, but rarely - I ask around and read reviews for individual performances.  Do you already have some of the sonatas done by other people?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on March 04, 2016, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on March 04, 2016, 11:25:24 AM
That's a lot of music from a single performer.  I have done it on occassion, but rarely - I ask around and read reviews for individual performances.  Do you already have some of the sonatas done by other people?

Nope, I do not!  I've only heard a few sonatas (harpsichord) by Scarlatti, through film (undocumented who was the performer), but was mesmorized!

I've done the cold turkey plunge before with great results (Miaskovsky symphonies and quartets), without having heard a single note of the composers' music.  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 04, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
Something to keep in mind is, do you like the sound of the harpsichord? Not just in general, but the instrument Ross uses - could you imagine listening to however many CDs of that particular sound?

I don't know too much about HIP Scarlatti, Scott Ross, or other harpsichord greats, so I will shush up about it. :) I'm listening to a piano version of K. 417 while typing this!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on March 04, 2016, 11:42:57 AM
Well - that's 400+ sonatas for harpsichord.  I love Scarlatti's music, but 400 pieces for that instrument would be overboard - I think I have the last 50 or so or thereabouts.  Maybe you might want to go for the late(r) sonatas first?  The very early ones are more like juvenile practice exercises.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on March 04, 2016, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 04, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
Something to keep in mind is, do you like the sound of the harpsichord? Not just in general, but the instrument Ross uses - could you imagine listening to however many CDs of that particular sound?

I don't know too much about HIP Scarlatti, Scott Ross, or other harpsichord greats, so I will shush up about it. :) I'm listening to a piano version of K. 417 while typing this!

Well, I know I really loved the sonata I've heard (I can't even remember offhand which one it was), and it was on a harpsichord.  I believe Ross is the only one to record the complete catalogue (550 sonatas?).

I should probably hold back the reins a bit.  :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on March 04, 2016, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on March 04, 2016, 11:42:57 AM
Well - that's 400+ sonatas for harpsichord.  I love Scarlatti's music, but 400 pieces for that instrument would be overboard - I think I have the last 50 or so or thereabouts.  Maybe you might want to go for the late(r) sonatas first?  The very early ones are more like juvenile practice exercises.

Yes, I should probably hold back a bit.  Perhaps get a few discs sampling both:  performances on harpsichord and performances on piano.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 04, 2016, 11:53:26 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 04, 2016, 11:47:25 AM
Yes, I should probably hold back a bit.  Perhaps get a few discs sampling both:  performances on harpsichord and performances on piano.
555 sonatas, btw, a nice number!

If you want to try a piano sampler, the best place to start is probably Mikhail Pletnev. There are also great recitals featuring Christian Zacharias, Yevgeny Sudbin, and, if you like his style, Vladimir Horowitz. Not to mention Matan Porat's unforgettably weird recital "Variations on a Theme by Scarlatti," where he plays one Scarlatti sonata and then 23 similar works by other composers, pretending they are "variations". (The composers include Grieg, Kurtag, Couperin, Shostakovich, Brahms, and - played back-to-back!!! - Boulez and Mozart.) He also improvises his own cadenza on the Scarlatti tune.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on March 04, 2016, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 04, 2016, 11:46:05 AMI believe Ross is the only one to record the complete catalogue (550 sonatas?).


Pieter-Jan Belder has also recorded them all.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on March 04, 2016, 12:57:38 PM
Does any of the numberings (Longo or Kirkpatrick) follow a chronological order? I always thought that ALL of the 555 keyboard sonatas were fairly "late" works (from the 1730s onwards) and that "essercizi" was mainly the title given to a subset that was published.

Anyway, I have not heard all of them nor do I own a set. I'd recommend getting a few discs from different artists.
Many pianists and most harpsichordists have recorded at least one or two anthologies, and some several discs worth (Staier has three or four). The Belder came in (clumsy) 3-disc-boxes, some of which can be picked up for a pittance occasionally.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on March 04, 2016, 01:03:41 PM
I have two 2-LP discs - one on DG Archiv, the other on Telefunken - of the sonatas - and that is enough to feed the fire.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 04, 2016, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 04, 2016, 12:57:38 PM
Does any of the numberings (Longo or Kirkpatrick) follow a chronological order? I always thought that ALL of the 555 keyboard sonatas were fairly "late" works (from the 1730s onwards) and that "essercizi" was mainly the title given to a subset that was published.
You are correct. Scarlatti started writing the 555 after his 50th birthday. I've never been able to detect a major change in quality from start to finish - right now I'm listening to K. 32, which is one of the very best of all and maybe one of my favorite keyboard works ever.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2016, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 04, 2016, 12:57:38 PM
Does any of the numberings (Longo or Kirkpatrick) follow a chronological order? I always thought that ALL of the 555 keyboard sonatas were fairly "late" works (from the 1730s onwards) and that "essercizi" was mainly the title given to a subset that was published.



No one knows. The oldest editions date from when Scarlatti was in his 60s, but nothing follows about when he wrote the music. Kirkpatrick thought he arranged them in chronological order of composition but this is very speculative. The sonatas from the final books are less virtuosic, possibly reflecting a deterioration in Maria Barbara's skills (Kirpkpatrick speculates she became so fat she couldn't cross her hands at the keyboard.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on March 05, 2016, 01:56:10 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 04, 2016, 09:27:12 PM
The sonatas from the final books are less virtuosic, possibly reflecting a deterioration in Maria Barbara's skills (Kirpkpatrick speculates she became so fat she couldn't cross her hands at the keyboard.)

:D   ;D    :P
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 02:23:31 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 04, 2016, 11:07:40 AM
I am considering Scott Ross' complete set of Scarlatti's sonatas (wanting harpsichord, not fortepiano nor piano).  Currently on sale at $76 CDN at Presto Classical.

Yay or nay?  ;D  :)

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564629945 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564629945)

I payed more than twice as much a long time ago, and I still consider it worth the cost. But of course you have to be very interested in the music.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 02:26:11 AM
Quote from: Todd on March 04, 2016, 11:59:42 AM

Pieter-Jan Belder has also recorded them all.

And Gilbert Rowland and Richard Lester.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on March 05, 2016, 02:27:04 AM
As I recall the story, Scarlatti himself had become too fat but it might be slander. (Handel apparently still played well despite his immense girth.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 05, 2016, 04:01:43 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 05, 2016, 02:27:04 AM
As I recall the story, Scarlatti himself had become too fat but it might be slander. (Handel apparently still played well despite his immense girth.)
As does the enormous present-day virtuoso Alexander Markovich. (Google doesn't have a picture, understandably.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 05, 2016, 04:47:31 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 05, 2016, 02:27:04 AM
As I recall the story, Scarlatti himself had become too fat but it might be slander. (Handel apparently still played well despite his immense girth.)

The girth, if reported accurately, could have affected his ability to play cross-hand passages (very common in the sonatas, and also in the first movement of Mozart's K 331).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 05:48:12 AM
Hantai will release a 4th cd of sonatas next month.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on March 05, 2016, 05:58:56 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 05, 2016, 02:23:31 AM
I payed more than twice as much a long time ago, and I still consider it worth the cost. But of course you have to be very interested in the music.

Yes, entirely worthwhile IMO.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on March 05, 2016, 06:23:23 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 05, 2016, 04:01:43 AM
As does the enormous present-day virtuoso Alexander Markovich. (Google doesn't have a picture, understandably.)


Yes it does.  Bing, too.  (I had to check.  It's rare for a photo not to exist.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on March 05, 2016, 06:49:19 AM
Wow, thank you everyone for the great feedback!  :)  Not sure yet what I'm going to do, but I will do something.   :D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Wakefield on March 05, 2016, 07:03:03 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 05, 2016, 02:26:11 AM
And Gilbert Rowland and Richard Lester.

Two or three days ago, I thought: it would be great if Skip Sempé recorded a substantial part of these sonatas.

It was after to listen to this disk:

[asin]B000PHWDBC[/asin]


Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on March 05, 2016, 07:03:27 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 04, 2016, 11:46:05 AM
Well, I know I really loved the sonata I've heard (I can't even remember offhand which one it was), and it was on a harpsichord.  I believe Ross is the only one to record the complete catalogue (550 sonatas?).

I should probably hold back the reins a bit.  :D

Ross, Lester, Belder are the three complete cycles on harpsichord; another was abandoned 2/3 or so into the project. There are two on piano nearing completion this year and Naxos has a mixed-pianist cycle on piano(s), too, that will eventually be completed. Ross, for harpsichord, reigns supreme very easily over Lester and Belder; I'm not sure if Rowland is complete, certainly that which exists looks out of print and I haven't heard any of it whereas I have the other three. When the Ross "Scarlatti Cube" came out in the last format, it was my re-issue of the year: http://ionarts.blogspot.de/2005/12/best-recordings-of-2005.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.de/2005/12/best-recordings-of-2005.html)

You'd think you'd hear the rush in which they were recorded, but not such thing. Lester is way more boring in many more Sonatas and I don't find Belder has the nuance and becomes annoying after a few too many discs.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on March 05, 2016, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on March 05, 2016, 07:03:27 AMYou'd think you'd hear the rush in which they were recorded, but not such thing.


I disagree.  There are times in the cycle where the playing almost seems giddy, as if Ross was excited by the music he had just learned and wants to play it immediately so that everyone else can hear it.  I got that impression the first run-through, and it was there on the two subsequent listens.  His playing is meticulous throughout, and at those moments where it sounds giddy, it simply sounds even more involved.  Ross' cycle is one of the great recording achievements.  It's been a few years since I last listened to the whole set.  Perhaps I should revisit it in the summer.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on March 05, 2016, 07:25:06 AM
What I think Jens meant is, that the brief calendar of the overall recording project suggests the possibility of shortcuts or insufficiency in the preparation, but that there is no such problem.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
So is Ferdinando Valenti's cycle not complete?

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 05, 2016, 08:10:58 AM
Quote from: Todd on March 05, 2016, 06:23:23 AM
Yes it does.  Bing, too.  (I had to check.  It's rare for a photo not to exist.)
There are photos, technically, but they're kinda old at this point - they don't compare to the amusing experience I had seeing Markovich play live, where he dispatched Liszt with admirable aplomb and virtuosity even though he looked like he had T-Rex arms, and a technique involving using himself as an elbow-rest.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 05, 2016, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 05, 2016, 08:10:58 AM
There are photos, technically, but they're kinda old at this point - they don't compare to the amusing experience I had seeing Markovich play live, where he dispatched Liszt with admirable aplomb and virtuosity even though he looked like he had T-Rex arms, and a technique involving using himself as an elbow-rest.

Is this kinda old?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4XhLuYc_A

Your T-Rex metaphor escapes me, however, as T-Rex had tiny arms compared to the rest of his body:
(http://www.jurassicworld.com/media/dinosaurs/tyrannosaurus-rex/tyrannosaurus-rex-info-graphic.png)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on March 05, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 05, 2016, 08:20:10 AM
Is this kinda old?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4XhLuYc_A

Looks like that's 2 years before I saw him - but I must say in his praise, the total delight which he shows in that video is an essential part of his stage presence. He was doing the Liszt Concerto No. 2 with the LPO, and all through the performance, seemed totally overjoyed by every bar.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 05, 2016, 08:56:57 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 05, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Looks like that's 2 years before I saw him - but I must say in his praise, the total delight which he shows in that video is an essential part of his stage presence. He was doing the Liszt Concerto No. 2 with the LPO, and all through the performance, seemed totally overjoyed by every bar.

That's good to know, because I have always found the third beat of the second measure before letter O in the score to be slightly uninspired.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 09:15:18 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 05:48:12 AM
Hantai will release a 4th cd of sonatas next month.

That will become his fifth.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 09:17:16 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
So is Ferdinando Valenti's cycle not complete?

No, he recorded, as far as I know, a little more than the half of them.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 09:25:28 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on March 05, 2016, 07:03:27 AM
Ross, for harpsichord, reigns supreme very easily over Lester and Belder;

Must remain a matter of taste.

Quote from: jlaurson
I'm not sure if Rowland is complete..

Rowland is advertised as being complete.

Quote from: jlaurson
Lester is way more boring in many more Sonatas and I don't find Belder has the nuance and becomes annoying after a few too many discs.

Must remain a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Luke on March 05, 2016, 12:17:14 PM
I've probably said it before somewhere here, but Richard Lester was my piano teacher between the ages of about 5-7.  Actually quite inspirational, because he taught in such a beautiful old building in the middle of a Twickenham park (in my memory, at any rate), which really influenced my conception of the special, separate nature of this music which I was just beginning to learn about. 8) I have an LP of him in Scarlatti recorded about that time, a long time before the Nimbus cycle.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on March 05, 2016, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Todd on March 05, 2016, 07:13:14 AM

I disagree.  There are times in the cycle where the playing almost seems giddy, as if Ross was excited by the music he had just learned and wants to play it immediately so that everyone else can hear it.  I got that impression the first run-through, and it was there on the two subsequent listens.  His playing is meticulous throughout, and at those moments where it sounds giddy, it simply sounds even more involved.  Ross' cycle is one of the great recording achievements.  It's been a few years since I last listened to the whole set.  Perhaps I should revisit it in the summer.

Thank you for this. I don't have an integral set of Scarlatti, and so I'm pleased to have found the complete Ross at a good price online. That's
good, because speaking pianistically, I find Scarlatti often much more difficult to play than Handel or Bach. The tricky leaps, the hand-crossings, and the broken sixths and thirds can get pretty treacherous at times.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Luke on March 05, 2016, 12:17:14 PM
I've probably said it before somewhere here, but Richard Lester was my piano teacher between the ages of about 5-7.  Actually quite inspirational, because he taught in such a beautiful old building in the middle of a Twickenham park (in my memory, at any rate), which really influenced my conception of the special, separate nature of this music which I was just beginning to learn about. 8) I have an LP of him in Scarlatti recorded about that time, a long time before the Nimbus cycle.

Yes, you have mentioned that before. As to his Scarlatti I find it rather uneventful, but I very much like his recent recordings of early Italian baroque music, particularly his Frescobaldi, but also the others.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 05, 2016, 12:47:03 PM
Quote from: Gordo on March 05, 2016, 07:03:03 AM
Two or three days ago, I thought: it would be great if Skip Sempé recorded a substantial part of these sonatas.

It was after to listen to this disk:

I was not really impressed by this, which the completist in me purchased, but I may need a relisten.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Wakefield on March 05, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 05, 2016, 12:47:03 PM
I was not really impressed by this, which the completist in me purchased, but I may need a relisten.

Personally, I think Sempé has a great ability to expose clearly and distinctly the impressive heap of ideas involved in this music.

It's virtuosic, but also (a bad word in artistic issues) beautifully pedagogical.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 05, 2016, 06:49:19 AM
Wow, thank you everyone for the great feedback!  :)  Not sure yet what I'm going to do, but I will do something.   :D

I think whether you enjoy Scott Ross's Scarlatti will depend on what you want from music. If you like your music to be poignant, then you may be slightly disappointed by what he does.

Before investing, I suggest you listen to him playing K 87. And then try someone with a very different style like Glen Wilson.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2016, 10:01:24 PM
Quote from: Gordo on March 05, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
Personally, I think Sempé has a great ability to expose clearly and distinctly the impressive heap of ideas involved in this music.

It's virtuosic, but also (a bad word in artistic issues) beautifully pedagogical.

I think this is potentially interesting. Can we take an example?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on March 06, 2016, 07:38:09 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on March 05, 2016, 07:25:06 AM
What I think Jens meant is, that the brief calendar of the overall recording project suggests the possibility of shortcuts or insufficiency in the preparation, but that there is no such problem.

Yes, thank you.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on May 05, 2016, 10:09:13 AM
The new Hantaï Scarlatti is now out, it seems exceptional. I notice that he has rerecorded K 208 - the first time in Vol 1. The new recording is rather different. Very interesting new ideas about ornamentation.  Does he comment on this anywhere?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on June 03, 2016, 11:47:37 AM

Latest on Forbes.com:
Classical CD Of The Week: Scarlatti Classical And En Suite (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek14)

As every clever Scarlatti disc or recital should, this one has had some thought put into the selection and arrangement of the sonatas, rather than just willy-nilly lumping together personal favorites. True, the pudding-proof is in the listening, not the admiration of the thought behind it. But it's worth mentioning all the same in this case, especially since on Claire Huangci's disc it works so particularly well: The pianist (whom I heard at the 2011 ARD International Music Competition, where she came second, then still performing as Tori Huang) arranged bundles of sonatas in the form of baroque suites (disc 1) and classical sonatas (disc 2), as laid out by her lucid, well-written, and refreshingly level-headed liner notes:...

(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/05/Forbes_Classica-CD-of-the-Week_BERLIN-CLASSICS_Scarlatti_Huangci_laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/ (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek014)



Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 05, 2016, 07:07:21 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 03, 2016, 11:47:37 AM

Latest on Forbes.com:
Classical CD Of The Week: Scarlatti Classical And En Suite (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek014)

As every clever Scarlatti disc or recital should, this one has had some thought put into the selection and arrangement of the sonatas, rather than just willy-nilly lumping together personal favorites. True, the pudding-proof is in the listening, not the admiration of the thought behind it. But it's worth mentioning all the same in this case, especially since on Claire Huangci's disc it works so particularly well: The pianist (whom I heard at the 2011 ARD International Music Competition, where she came second, then still performing as Tori Huang) arranged bundles of sonatas in the form of baroque suites (disc 1) and classical sonatas (disc 2), as laid out by her lucid, well-written, and refreshingly level-headed liner notes:...

(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/05/Forbes_Classica-CD-of-the-Week_BERLIN-CLASSICS_Scarlatti_Huangci_laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/ (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek014)

I can't get to your review but I listened to 206. The way she played it made me think of one of the less violent Chopin nocturnes.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: North Star on June 05, 2016, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 05, 2016, 07:07:21 AM
I can't get to your review but I listened to 206. The way she played it made me think of one of the less violent Chopin nocturnes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on June 05, 2016, 09:41:24 AM
Quote from: North Star on June 05, 2016, 09:22:18 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/

@ Jens - the link above worked for me - thanks for the review - at the very end, your 'two' recommendations included not only the 2-CD set reviewed but the one below which I ordered (own his first Scarlatti performance).  Dave :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144uoV%2Bo6L.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 05, 2016, 10:49:21 AM
Quote from: North Star on June 05, 2016, 09:22:18 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/
like a sewing-machine in love
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on June 05, 2016, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 05, 2016, 09:41:24 AM
@ Jens - the link above worked for me - thanks for the review - at the very end, your 'two' recommendations included not only the 2-CD set reviewed but the one below which I ordered (own his first Scarlatti performance).  Dave :)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfdwCYQXIAAB4z3.jpg)
#morninglistening to shockingly good #Scarlatti, @YevgenySudbin's second go at the happy l... http://ift.tt/1STf9Ok  (http://amzn.to/28eCkej)

That IS terrific, isn't it. Lots of internal things going on in the music with Sudbin. Beats even his first Scarlatti disc.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 06, 2016, 12:17:10 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 05, 2016, 10:25:28 PM
That IS terrific, isn't it. Lots of internal things going on in the music with Sudbin. Beats even his first Scarlatti disc.

Is it true that he has enhanced the scores by adding colourful harmonies?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: jlaurson on June 06, 2016, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 06, 2016, 12:17:10 AM
Is it true that he has enhanced the scores by adding colourful harmonies?

It certainly *sounds* as though overtones are in play that I don't usually hear. Register shifts, perhaps? I haven't listened with a score... nor even read the entire booklet... but I certainly heard things within the music that I never hear elsewhere. As if little silver-and-paper interior spiral staircases connected one level of the music to the other.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 05, 2016, 10:49:21 AM
like a sewing-machine in love


I aim to please.  ;D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 06, 2016, 09:24:45 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 06, 2016, 12:26:23 AM
It certainly *sounds* as though overtones are in play that I don't usually hear.

Like in Pletnev
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brahmsian on June 09, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
Just recently finished my journey through the complete Scarlatti keyboard sonatas, on the harpsichord, via Scott Ross!  I paced myself throughout about 2.5 months.  :)

And what a fantastic journey it was!  :)  The variety and individuality of the sonatas are remarkable, and I love how Ross employs different harpsichords for some of the recordings.  It was a resounding success for me, especially as an impulse buy.  :D

Disc # 2 probably is my favourite disc, overall.  To this point.  Favourite two sonatas are on Disc 13, K.208 and K.209, I believe.

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/erato2564629945.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2016, 11:15:22 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 09, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
Just recently finished my journey through the complete Scarlatti keyboard sonatas, on the harpsichord, via Scott Ross!  I paced myself throughout about 2.5 months.  :)

And what a fantastic journey it was!  :)  The variety and individuality of the sonatas are remarkable, and I love how Ross employs different harpsichords for some of the recordings.  It was a resounding success for me, especially as an impulse buy.  :D

Disc # 2 probably is my favourite disc, overall.  To this point.  Favourite two sonatas are on Disc 13, K.208 and K.209, I believe.

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/erato2564629945.jpg)

Très cool, Ray!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on June 09, 2016, 11:16:32 AM
so THAT'S where you've been - do you realize how I've had to more or less carry the flag for sonatas, duos, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets and septets and octets and nonets among these ..... these symphonists???

and there you were laying around on the floor contemplating your ceiling tiles with Scarlatti playing in the background ...

>:D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2016, 11:17:46 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on June 09, 2016, 11:16:32 AM
so THAT'S where you've been - do you realize how I've had to more or less carry the flag for sonatas, duos, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets and septets and octets and nonets among these ..... these symphonists???

You're welcome:

http://www.youtube.com/v/qArNT21wun0
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Scion7 on June 09, 2016, 11:24:22 AM
not YOU - Chambernut - we posted at the same time   :P
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: 28Orot on June 09, 2016, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 18, 2007, 11:58:57 AM
Recently I acquired the first two vol.s (á 3 CDs) of Belder´s on-going Scarlatti set. This is nothing less than a relevation, because Belder´s interpretations are much more human and reflective than Scott Ross´, and Belder accordingly finds more depth in these works than Scott Ross, who in these ears often is too efficient (read: superficial). Certainly Scarlatti´s Sonatas demand brilliant keyboard technique, but Belder is completely up to Ross in this matter. So I am afraid, that the Belder box is a "must have".

Some say that his sonatas have heavily influenced Beethoven...
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on June 09, 2016, 10:54:17 PM
Quote from: 28Orot on June 09, 2016, 07:59:18 PM
Some say that his sonatas have heavily influenced Beethoven...

Did Beethoven even know Scarlatti's sonatas? Maybe you mean Clementi who was among the most famous virtuosos right before and at Beethoven's time?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on June 09, 2016, 11:56:14 PM
Quote from: ChamberNut on June 09, 2016, 10:59:18 AM
Just recently finished my journey through the complete Scarlatti keyboard sonatas, on the harpsichord, via Scott Ross!  I paced myself throughout about 2.5 months.  :)

And what a fantastic journey it was!  :)  The variety and individuality of the sonatas are remarkable, and I love how Ross employs different harpsichords for some of the recordings.  It was a resounding success for me, especially as an impulse buy.  :D

Disc # 2 probably is my favourite disc, overall.  To this point.  Favourite two sonatas are on Disc 13, K.208 and K.209, I believe.

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/erato2564629945.jpg)

Great! :) :) Another fan of this epic set. :D

And it will probably open the door to many other composers like Antonio Soler (a pupil of Scarlatti) and Muzio Clementi, who was influenced by Scarlatti and combined that with the Germanic tradition (Haydn, CPE Bach). As Jo498 pointed out, Clementi is the one who passed the influence on to Van Beethoven.

Also, if you are able cope with Ross' exhillarating and often mind boggling Scarlatti, there is no other harpsichord work that will be beyond your reach...  8)
It would be worthwhile to explore the Italian keyboard tradition that Scarlatti came from.
Recommendations: Lodovico Giustini (Andrea Coen/Brilliant, Azzolino Bernardino Della Ciaja (Attilio Cremonesi/Pan Classics) and Pietro Domenico Paradisi (Enrico Baiano/Glossa).

Q
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: The new erato on June 09, 2016, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: Que on June 09, 2016, 11:56:14 PM

Recommendations: Lodovico Giustini (Andrea Coen/Brilliant, Azzolino Bernardino Della Ciaja (Attilio Cremonesi/Pan Classics) and Pietro Domenico Paradisi (Enrico Baiano/Glossa).

Q
Thanks, duly noted. Brilliant cheap on mdt at the moment.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 11, 2016, 04:38:45 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 05, 2016, 09:15:18 AM
That will become his fifth.

I've only just realised why you said this. Does the unnumbered one antedate vol. 1?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 01, 2017, 03:19:19 PM
The 10 Best Classical Recordings Of 2016
#3 Scarlatti: http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/01/Forbes-Best-Classical-Recordings-of-2016-N04-Scarlatti_Sudbin_Sonatas_BIS_laurson-1200x470.jpg?width=960) (http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New)

(Sudbin's new album)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 02, 2017, 06:51:24 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 01, 2017, 03:19:19 PM
The 10 Best Classical Recordings Of 2016
#3 Scarlatti: http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New (http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New)

(Sudbin's new album)

Thanks Jens for the link and your reviews - I own a number of those CDs, including the Scarlatti - but just put the Jean Roger-Ducasse 3-CD set in my Amazon cart - new composer to me - also found some other excellent 'thumbs-up' reviews - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81HIIadUJ6L._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 02, 2017, 07:02:52 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 11, 2016, 04:38:45 AM
I've only just realised why you said this. Does the unnumbered one antedate vol. 1?

I have only just now seen this post.

The answer is yes, the Naive CD was his first Scarlatti recording.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 05, 2017, 06:50:39 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 02, 2017, 06:51:24 AM
Thanks Jens for the link and your reviews - I own a number of those CDs, including the Scarlatti - but just put the Jean Roger-Ducasse 3-CD set in my Amazon cart - new composer to me - also found some other excellent 'thumbs-up' reviews - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81HIIadUJ6L._SX522_.jpg)

Thanks for reading and the kind words! I hope you'll like that Roger-Ducasse as much (or even just almost as much) as I do.

Meanwhile, apropos to this thread:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1RucQJWgAAqS3G.jpg)
#morninglistening to #Scarlatti on the long-awaited fourth volume from #PierreHantaï on #M... http://ift.tt/2hPwHQQ (http://amzn.to/2j1CvEw)

Finally!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 08, 2018, 07:35:04 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51UBgX82ceL.jpg)

Mario Martinoli has chosen sonatas to illustrate Scarlatti's writing in different keys. And of course keys suggest affects. This, combined with Martnolli's reflective tempos, results in performances which are particularly interesting expressively. He says that Leonhardt was a major influence, and I can imagine that anyone who appreciates Leonhardt's DHM Scarlatti will enjoy this, I think it's worth hearing.

I don't think that the title is supposed to suggest anything interesting's going on about the way the instrument has been tuned, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on March 08, 2018, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 08, 2018, 07:35:04 AM
Mario Martinoli has chosen sonatas to illustrate Scarlatti's writing in different keys. And of course keys suggest affects.

In a well-tempered world ? ?

(I must admit to a personal predilection for D minor, but there's really no logic to that.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on August 06, 2018, 03:33:26 PM
Nobody replied to this in Recordings You Are Considering, so...:

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2018, 03:17:47 PM
Does anyone have favorite box sets of Domenico Scarlatti on piano? I'm collecting consistently fresh, imaginative piano recitals available on single CDs or twofers, but was curious if there are any noteworthy boxes where I can get a bunch of goodies at once. Only one I know of is Zacharias/EMI?

The solo/2CD piano recitals I'm collecting include Yevgeny Sudbin, Claire Huangci, Konstantin Scherbakov, Sergei Babayan, Goran Filipec, Benjamin Frith, and Anne Queffelec.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on August 06, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
I don't get the impression that pianists have gone in for extensive Scarlatti recording. And there are some sonatas with repeated notes (e.g.) which work well on harpsichord, but to which the piano's action is less amenable.

I like the Babayan.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on August 06, 2018, 04:11:58 PM
I guess there's also the ongoing Naxos series with a variety of different pianists, but I can't think of any individual pianists who have recorded more than 2 CDs worth of Scarlatti except Zacharias (4 discs on EMI, one of which is twenty performances of the same sonata, and 1 on MDG). Angela Hewitt has started recording volumes of Scarlatti but doubt she'll do so extensively enough to merit a box set either.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on August 06, 2018, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 06, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
I don't get the impression that pianists have gone in for extensive Scarlatti recording. And there are some sonatas with repeated notes (e.g.) which work well on harpsichord, but to which the piano's action is less amenable.

I like the Babayan.

Quote from: amw on August 06, 2018, 04:11:58 PM
I guess there's also the ongoing Naxos series with a variety of different pianists, but I can't think of any individual pianists who have recorded more than 2 CDs worth of Scarlatti except Zacharias (4 discs on EMI, one of which is twenty performances of the same sonata, and 1 on MDG). Angela Hewitt has started recording volumes of Scarlatti but doubt she'll do so extensively enough to merit a box set either.

Thanks, that is about what I afeared. It makes sense, though - Scarlatti was probably largely an opener/encore for pianists for most of the 20th century, not someone to dive into for an hour. Guess a really deep, years-long engagement with Scarlatti's music hasn't appealed to many pianists beyond Zacharias and maybe Hewitt, Pletnev, or Queffelec.

By the way, amw, of the Naxos series so far I've most impressed by Frith, Scherbakov, Filipec (who recorded almost all fast ones), and one of the most recent volumes (Yasynskyy, Kennard, or Monteiro) but can't remember which. I started diving into that series after my GMG connection became unreliable, so I haven't been able to take the kind of careful notes I would have wanted to do to keep them straight. My taste leans toward very pianistic and individualized; some of the other performers in the series prefer to do a less dynamically Big, more clean'n'easy style in deference to the harpsichord originals, and they can also be good - Gerda Struhal, Duanduan Hao, Orion Weiss.

EDIT: Carlo Grante has recorded 450 sonatas so far on a Bosendorfer. Has anyone heard that series? It's in 5 boxes so far, but they are not affordable to collect (on Amazon, the 5 combined are $225).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on August 06, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
I have not. I have also not heard great things about Carlo Grante as a performer, but it's probably not as bad as the Claudio Colombo complete set on a MIDI keyboard. There appear to be several volumes on Spotify if you want to give them a test run.

Another pianist who recorded 4 CDs of Scarlatti is Maria Tipo, of which the two currently available (Vox & EMI) are superlative, and the other two never made it off LP.

edit: and there appears to be an almost-complete multi-pianist set released by Czech Radio but I have no idea if it's physically available or just a digital release.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 07, 2018, 02:49:29 AM
Isn't there a whole load of modern piano Scarlatti on Tacet by someone?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on August 07, 2018, 03:15:56 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 06, 2018, 06:28:25 PM
By the way, amw, of the Naxos series so far I've most impressed by Frith, Scherbakov, Filipec (who recorded almost all fast ones), and one of the most recent volumes (Yasynskyy, Kennard, or Monteiro) but can't remember which.

I am not at all surprised that Frith and Scherbakov shine here;  I have greatly enjoyed any recording I have heard by either.

Have you heard the Pletnev disc, Brian?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on August 07, 2018, 09:09:02 AM
Thanks again, all. Mandryka is right - there is a lot of Scarlatti on modern piano on the Tacet label, someone named Christoph Ullrich who is, confusingly, recording all the sonatas in chronological order, but releasing them out of order, so that the volumes currently available are Vols. 1, 11, 14, and 15. They appear to be two-CD sets.

I found Carlo Grante on Naxos Music Library, happily. Gonna try that this afternoon. Joyce Hatto was Carlo Grante for at least one CD, and his Scarlatti series is produced by Paul Badura-Skoda on one of PBS's pianos, so the credentials are worth investigating.

Thanks for the Maria Tipo, uh, tip. That sounds super up my alley.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 07, 2018, 03:15:56 AM
Have you heard the Pletnev disc, Brian?
Yes! I love his idiosyncrasies when I know it's him, but funnily enough, in the GMG blind listening game we did with K. 27 I did not like him so much for the exact same reason.

Currently playing Anne Queffelec's Mirare recital and gosh, is it wonderful.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 07, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
Quote from: amw on August 06, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
I have not. I have also not heard great things about Carlo Grante as a performer, but it's probably not as bad as the Claudio Colombo complete set on a MIDI keyboard. There appear to be several volumes on Spotify if you want to give them a test run.

Another pianist who recorded 4 CDs of Scarlatti is Maria Tipo, of which the two currently available (Vox & EMI) are superlative, and the other two never made it off LP.

edit: and there appears to be an almost-complete multi-pianist set released by Czech Radio but I have no idea if it's physically available or just a digital release.

I listened to a handful of sonatas by Carlo Granté last night. What struck me is how poised and balanced, sane, tame it sounded.  Maybe this is inevitable with modern piano. Anyway, I thought it was gross distortion of the music. Pianists should keep their mits off most of most of these sonatas!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on August 08, 2018, 01:04:28 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 07, 2018, 09:09:02 AM
Yes! I love his idiosyncrasies when I know it's him, but funnily enough, in the GMG blind listening game we did with K. 27 I did not like him so much for the exact same reason.

I could see that, yes.

Quote from: Mandryka on August 07, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
I listened to a handful of sonatas by Carlo Granté last night. What struck me is how poised and balanced, sane, tame it sounded.  Maybe this is inevitable with modern piano. Anyway, I thought it was gross distortion of the music. Pianists should keep their mits off most of most of these sonatas!

While I see your point, a professional pianist does need to be familiar with these pieces, as historical training.  It's only natural and probably inevitable that affection for the pieces will mean, they get programmed.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Florestan on August 08, 2018, 02:52:45 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 07, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
I listened to a handful of sonatas by Carlo Granté last night. What struck me is how poised and balanced, sane, tame it sounded.  Maybe this is inevitable with modern piano. Anyway, I thought it was gross distortion of the music. Pianists should keep their mits off most of most of these sonatas!

Pianists (or any other instrumentists, for that matter) should be free to play whatever they want and however they want --- implying, of course, in whatever way it makes sense to their own artistic vision --- and they are under no effing obligation to justify or defend their interpretative choices by writing, or citing, scholarly essays. Conversely, we as listeners are free to accept or reject their interpretation and ultimately prefer that (or those) which best suit(s) our own taste.

As for distorting the music, I refer you to the book I posted in the HIP debate thread.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Draško on August 08, 2018, 03:55:48 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 06, 2018, 03:33:26 PM

The solo/2CD piano recitals I'm collecting include Yevgeny Sudbin, Claire Huangci, Konstantin Scherbakov, Sergei Babayan, Goran Filipec, Benjamin Frith, and Anne Queffelec.

Pogorelich and Tomsic are worth having.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on August 08, 2018, 04:38:56 AM
Also if you like historical pianos, Aline Zylberajch has a disc on Ambronay on a Silbermann Cristofori replica that's not to be missed. (There are also some fortepianos in the Belder & Lester integrals but not, as far as I know, available outside the box sets)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Biffo on August 08, 2018, 04:44:54 AM
Quote from: San Antone on August 08, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
I haven't listened to the Horowitz recording in years.  It was the first recording of these sonatas I heard on piano and I wonder how it stands up today.

A couple of years ago DG issued a set of Horowitz's later recordings and it included some Scarlatti. The gush in the booklet said something along the lines that most pianists would give their right arms to be able to play Scarlatti like Horowitz. To me it didn't even sound like Scarlatti. I have very little Scarlatti on the piano (Michelangeli and few others), I vastly prefer it played on the harpsichord.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 08, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
Quote from: San Antone on August 08, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
I haven't listened to the Horowitz recording in years.  It was the first recording of these sonatas I heard on piano and I wonder how it stands up today.

Interesting to compare Tipo and Horowitz in the same sonatas.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on August 08, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 07, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
I listened to a handful of sonatas by Carlo Granté last night. What struck me is how poised and balanced, sane, tame it sounded.  Maybe this is inevitable with modern piano. Anyway, I thought it was gross distortion of the music. Pianists should keep their mits off most of most of these sonatas!

I listened to just one, my favorite, K159. I enjoyed the way that Grante softens his touch to piano for the very last section of the sonata, ending a joyful piece on a reflective note. But I did not enjoy the way he teased tempo by momentarily speeding up or slowing down at transitions, climaxes, and ends of phrases. Overall will listen to a few others but it may not have $200 worth of appeal for me.

If you are concerned that tameness is the fate of all pianists in this music definitely try Pletnev and Sudbin and maybe Goran Filipec.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on August 09, 2018, 05:40:52 AM
I was going to say it's kind of weird to have a favourite Scarlatti sonata, but I guess I also have a favourite one (two actually, I guess I could pick one but don't know which at the moment) so I can't really judge.

Anyway as long as I'm listening to more Scarlatti on piano, if anyone has any other Scarlatti (or Soler or Seixas or whoever) fortepiano recommendations, they will certainly be read by me.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 09, 2018, 08:20:14 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 08, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
I listened to just one, my favorite, K159. I enjoyed the way that Grante softens his touch to piano for the very last section of the sonata, ending a joyful piece on a reflective note. But I did not enjoy the way he teased tempo by momentarily speeding up or slowing down at transitions, climaxes, and ends of phrases. Overall will listen to a few others but it may not have $200 worth of appeal for me.

If you are concerned that tameness is the fate of all pianists in this music definitely try Pletnev and Sudbin and maybe Goran Filipec.

Do you want the sonata played strictly?

I heard Pletnev do an all Scarlatti concert once.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 09, 2018, 10:08:02 AM
Here's an imaginative 159, Sergio Vartolo, after 421

https://www.youtube.com/v/ErL-aWjWsCI
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on August 09, 2018, 12:18:57 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2018, 08:20:14 AM
Do you want the sonata played strictly?
Not sure what you mean and also not sure how to answer as I'm still just in the early exploring days of getting into Scarlatti's idiom. But so far I have found that, among piano recordings, I've reacted best to interpreters who take liberties with dynamics and color - taking advantage of the possibilities of a piano as opposed to a harpsichord - but who are relatively strict in tempo. Even with the Vartolo video, I enjoy his ornamentation but do not enjoy his rhythmic hesitations.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 09, 2018, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: Brian on August 09, 2018, 12:18:57 PM
Not sure what you mean and also not sure how to answer as I'm still just in the early exploring days of getting into Scarlatti's idiom. But so far I have found that, among piano recordings, I've reacted best to interpreters who take liberties with dynamics and color - taking advantage of the possibilities of a piano as opposed to a harpsichord - but who are relatively strict in tempo. Even with the Vartolo video, I enjoy his ornamentation but do not enjoy his rhythmic hesitations.

Oh I've just thought that you may like Alexis Weissenberg, he uses dynamics a lot, and colour a bit, and harpsichord ideas like suspensions, hesitations, hardly at all. I just compared what he does with my favourite Scarlatti pianist, someone called Enrico Baiano, in the famous sonata 481.

One thing that hesitations may do, if managed properly, is give the illusion of heartfelt, almost spontaneous expression. A sort of eloquence, like a well sung operatic recitative. In the more « strict « performances it's more like a Mozart sonata or something.

I think part of what's going on with me is that I am much more familiar with the toccata/fantasy idea than I am with sonatas, you know I hardly ever listen to classical or 19th century sonatas, so when I'm confronted with  a strict performance which uses colour and dynamics like Weissenberg's,  I've sort of lost the sense of what the point of it is!
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2018, 11:50:55 PM
https://www.francemusique.fr/programmes/2018-07-22

Scarlatti Night, France Musique
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on August 19, 2018, 12:14:47 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2018, 01:12:16 PM
One thing that hesitations may do, if managed properly, is give the illusion of heartfelt, almost spontaneous expression. A sort of eloquence, like a well sung operatic recitative.
example:
https://www.youtube.com/v/wLEXbePWhsU
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on October 21, 2018, 03:54:23 AM
Nearly all Scarlatti sonatas have a similar and repetitive formula. I keep trying to enjoy them but I can't get over the way he structures them so similarly and even the way he formulates the ends of his melodic lines/resolves his melodies. Am I the only one who feels this way? It actually gets to me that I can't quite enjoy them. I don't get how artists, like Scott Ross or Pierre Hantai, can stand to record ALL of them. How DON'T they get quickly tired of him? Sorry for my trollish post. I feel like I could enjoy Scarlatti if I could just stop noticing the things he resorts to in all his compositions. It's like a tick I have now. I can't just listen without going, "there. that's in every one!" 

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: bwv 1080 on October 21, 2018, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: milk on October 21, 2018, 03:54:23 AM
Nearly all Scarlatti sonatas have a similar and repetitive formula. I keep trying to enjoy them but I can't get over the way he structures them so similarly and even the way he formulates the ends of his melodic lines/resolves his melodies. Am I the only one who feels this way? It actually gets to me that I can't quite enjoy them. I don't get how artists, like Scott Ross or Pierre Hantai, can stand to record ALL of them. How DON'T they get quickly tired of him? Sorry for my trollish post. I feel like I could enjoy Scarlatti if I could just stop noticing the things he resorts to in all his compositions. It's like a tick I have now. I can't just listen without going, "there. that's in every one!"

Bach fugues have an equally repetitive formula - its the variation within that

The combination of flamenco guitar and style galant is what makes DS for me.  Also there are some amazingly lyrical sonatas like K208 or K308
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 21, 2018, 06:07:10 AM
Quote from: milk on October 21, 2018, 03:54:23 AM
Nearly all Scarlatti sonatas have a similar and repetitive formula. I keep trying to enjoy them but I can't get over the way he structures them so similarly and even the way he formulates the ends of his melodic lines/resolves his melodies. Am I the only one who feels this way? It actually gets to me that I can't quite enjoy them. I don't get how artists, like Scott Ross or Pierre Hantai, can stand to record ALL of them. How DON'T they get quickly tired of him? Sorry for my trollish post. I feel like I could enjoy Scarlatti if I could just stop noticing the things he resorts to in all his compositions. It's like a tick I have now. I can't just listen without going, "there. that's in every one!"

It might help to imagine the repetition as ideas turning round and round in a madman's brain, like the repetition in this

QuoteTomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death.

You've  got to do something with all the repetition to make it listenable. One idea is to vary the colours. This was hantai's idea in the first couple of recordings he made. He thought he could give it wild, crazy colours.

With regard to 1080's point, of course in imitative counterpoint you have a motif repeated lots of times, though sometimes with some variation (of the rhythm for example.)

But it's not contrapuntal in Scarlatti, Scarlatti doesn't do counterpoint, he just repeats himself a lot.

For what it's worth there are parts of Beethoven which are pretty bad, worse than Scarlatti because it goes on for longer. The first movement of the Waldstein is an example.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on October 21, 2018, 06:24:23 AM
Quote from: milk on October 21, 2018, 03:54:23 AM
Nearly all Scarlatti sonatas have a similar and repetitive formula. I keep trying to enjoy them but I can't get over the way he structures them so similarly and even the way he formulates the ends of his melodic lines/resolves his melodies. Am I the only one who feels this way? It actually gets to me that I can't quite enjoy them. I don't get how artists, like Scott Ross or Pierre Hantai, can stand to record ALL of them. How DON'T they get quickly tired of him? Sorry for my trollish post. I feel like I could enjoy Scarlatti if I could just stop noticing the things he resorts to in all his compositions. It's like a tick I have now. I can't just listen without going, "there. that's in every one!"

All music (at least before Wagner*) is ultimately formulaic. Recognizable bits and pieces, turns-of-a-phrase, ready-made segments... added to form a greater whole. The difference between lasting composing talents that we still listen to and those who fell by the wayside is -- largely -- the level of ingeniousness in which they combined these bits and pieces. And the level of our enjoyment may be related to how easily we recognize them now and how much we are bothered by it or not. By and large, I think Scarlatti has been recognized as one of the guys who played this game ingeniously and innovatively; your particular sensitivity to his recipe showing may just be that: an overt sensitivity that reflects more on how you listen than on Scarlatti's perception with others. Does that make sense?

(Even in and after Wagner, but the segments become more complex and harder to tell.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on October 21, 2018, 06:47:25 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 06, 2018, 03:33:26 PM
Nobody replied to this in Recordings You Are Considering, so...:

The solo/2CD piano recitals I'm collecting include Yevgeny Sudbin, Claire Huangci, Konstantin Scherbakov, Sergei Babayan, Goran Filipec, Benjamin Frith, and Anne Queffelec.


A bit late, I know, but Michelangelo Carbonara recorded three discs of Scarlatti.  I've not heard the recordings, and given what I have heard from the pianist, I don't know if it might be what you are listening for.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on October 21, 2018, 07:12:00 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 06, 2018, 03:33:26 PM
Nobody replied to this in Recordings You Are Considering, so...:

The solo/2CD piano recitals I'm collecting include Yevgeny Sudbin, Claire Huangci, Konstantin Scherbakov, Sergei Babayan, Goran Filipec, Benjamin Frith, and Anne Queffelec.

Basically just re-inforcing your instinct/choices.

First and foremost:

Pletnev: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/02/dip-your-ears-no-26.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/02/dip-your-ears-no-26.html) & http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/Mar08/scarlatti_5181862.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/Mar08/scarlatti_5181862.htm)

Secondly:

Sudbin: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#9c91c4e186ae (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#9c91c4e186ae)

Babayan: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-1-10.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-1-10.html)

Tharaud: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-and-happy-freaks-alexandre.html)

Also, but not in any particular order:

Huangci: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/#78890adae542 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/06/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-scarlatti-classical-and-en-suite/#78890adae542)

Pogorelich: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/dip-your-ears-no-3.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/dip-your-ears-no-3.html)

Cavé: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2017/01/dip-your-ears-no-216-scarlatti-haydn.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2017/01/dip-your-ears-no-216-scarlatti-haydn.html) & https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2015/12/09/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2015-new-releases/#2d6adbe52fa0 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2015/12/09/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2015-new-releases/#2d6adbe52fa0)

And not to forget the classic: Horowitz.
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000CF32K/nectarandambr-20)

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on October 21, 2018, 07:57:58 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 06, 2018, 03:33:26 PM
Nobody replied to this in Recordings You Are Considering, so...:

The solo/2CD piano recitals I'm collecting include Yevgeny Sudbin, Claire Huangci, Konstantin Scherbakov, Sergei Babayan, Goran Filipec, Benjamin Frith, and Anne Queffelec.

Pletnev/Virgin may be one of the most controversial piano recordings. Some people think it is the best ever Scarlatti, some think it is the worst.
Pogorelich and Weissenberg, both DG, are not quite as notorious, but also quite special and quite famous.
Zacharias is more straightforward and you will get not only the most famous sonatas but a wider spectrum.
Queffelec/Erato was also highly regarded, she includes the "cat fugue", IIRC. I think there are also a few sonatas with imitative two-part counterpoint, Scarlatti could do this, he wrote a Stabat Mater for 10 voices and some more sacred music in the "old style", but the sonatas are obviously different.

Especially with one-disc-anthologies you will get a lot of overlap because almost everybody plays the most famous sonatas.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on October 22, 2018, 01:03:04 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on October 21, 2018, 06:24:23 AM
All music (at least before Wagner*) is ultimately formulaic. Recognizable bits and pieces, turns-of-a-phrase, ready-made segments... added to form a greater whole. The difference between lasting composing talents that we still listen to and those who fell by the wayside is -- largely -- the level of ingeniousness in which they combined these bits and pieces. And the level of our enjoyment may be related to how easily we recognize them now and how much we are bothered by it or not. By and large, I think Scarlatti has been recognized as one of the guys who played this game ingeniously and innovatively; your particular sensitivity to his recipe showing may just be that: an overt sensitivity that reflects more on how you listen than on Scarlatti's perception with others. Does that make sense?

(Even in and after Wagner, but the segments become more complex and harder to tell.)
It makes sense. Mandryka as well. Well, I'm glad my screed garnered some intelligent responses. I mean it wasn't a scintillating post to begin with but y'all gave me food for thought. I've been trying with Scarlatti for years and I have a good variety of recordings. I may keep trying. He's the one "great" baroque keyboard composer who does this to me. Well, Soler sometimes too, but I find more variation in Soler's sonatas. Or maybe Soler is already moving out of baroque. For some reason the repetition in Bach never bores me or annoys me. Anyhoo, thanks for the good-natured reactions. 
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on October 22, 2018, 02:16:37 AM
Scarlatti on 2 (or more) discs?

Sudbin and Huangci would top my list, with Queffelec's more recent 1-disc recital on Mirare also very fine, her earlier one I find a bit mundane.  And Hantai on harpsichord. 
Hewitt has also recorded two discs, very listenable but no match for Sudbin as I hear it, but at least she wins on the cover art by a country mile.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/813UnZYJboL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on October 22, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
Soler is mostly post-baroque already, I'd say. Later on he wrote 4-movement sonatas that are basically classical, despite certain differences to the "mainstream" classical style of central Europe. Heck, even Scarlatti is gallant style, almost pre-classical at times.
For me the whole point of listening to Scarlatti is that his sonatas are quite different from Bach fugues, Handel suites or the French clavecinists.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on October 22, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on October 22, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
Soler is mostly post-baroque already, I'd say. Later on he wrote 4-movement sonatas that are basically classical, despite certain differences to the "mainstream" classical style of central Europe. Heck, even Scarlatti is gallant style, almost pre-classical at times.
For me the whole point of listening to Scarlatti is that his sonatas are quite different from Bach fugues, Handel suites or the French clavecinists.
I really like Pieter-Jan Belder's Soler series. Sorry to get off-topic here.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on October 22, 2018, 04:15:23 AM
Quote from: milk on October 22, 2018, 01:03:04 AM
... I've been trying with Scarlatti for years and I have a good variety of recordings. I may keep trying. ...

Can I recommend this Youtube video, I suggest you skip the introduction and start at around 2:10, lasting about 8 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0fxivBhr0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0fxivBhr0)
this lady takes you blow-by-blow through K27, which is probably the most-recorded of all the sonatas and certainly my favourite.  Warning: her 'analysis' and interpretation here puts a decidedly romantic spin on the music - but it can take it.   :-\
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on October 22, 2018, 04:32:28 AM
Quote from: aukhawk on October 22, 2018, 04:15:23 AM
Can I recommend this Youtube video, I suggest you skip the introduction and start at around 2:10, lasting about 8 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0fxivBhr0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0fxivBhr0)
this lady takes you blow-by-blow through K27, which is probably the most-recorded of all the sonatas and certainly my favourite.  Warning: her 'analysis' and interpretation here puts a decidedly romantic spin on the music - but it can take it.   :-\
I'll definitely take a look tomorrow. Thanks! I remember K27 as being a really catchy one. Scarlatti does have some gripping, almost avant guard, pieces.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on October 22, 2018, 07:08:48 AM
The strange section in K27 where a short riff is repeated 7 times, like a cracked record before someone jogs the needle and the music can move on - is like a pre-echo of Philip Glass.
As can be seen from the video, this repeated riff includes a single crossed-hand note where the left hard reaches across the right, and I have this fantasy vision of old Scarlatti and his young pupil, Princess Maria Barbara, sitting side by side on the fortepiano stool as he teaches her this piece. 
"You take the right hand, your Royal Highness" he says "and I'll take the left".
...
"Oh, excuse me your Highness, for entirely musical reasons I just need to reach across you and ..."
Plink.
"Oh, er, and again your Majesty ..."
Plink.
"Aaaand again Ma'am ..."
Plink.
"One more time my dear ..."
Plink.
...
"Oh Monsieur Domingo, you cannot stop there!"

Plink.
"Again, I command you!"
Plink.
"For entirely musical reasons, Your Highness ..."
Plink.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on October 22, 2018, 07:44:35 AM
Quote from: aukhawk on October 22, 2018, 07:08:48 AM
The strange section in K27 where a short riff is repeated 7 times, like a cracked record before someone jogs the needle and the music can move on - is like a pre-echo of Philip Glass.
As can be seen from the video, this repeated riff includes a single crossed-hand note where the left hard reaches across the right, and I have this fantasy vision of old Scarlatti and his young pupil, Princess Maria Barbara, sitting side by side on the fortepiano stool as he teaches her this piece. 
"You take the right hand, your Royal Highness" he says "and I'll take the left".
...
"Oh, excuse me your Highness, for entirely musical reasons I just need to reach across you and ..."
Plink.
"Oh, er, and again your Majesty ..."
Plink.
"Aaaand again Ma'am ..."
Plink.
"One more time my dear ..."
Plink.
...
"Oh Monsieur Domingo, you cannot stop there!"

Plink.
"Again, I command you!"
Plink.
"For entirely musical reasons, Your Highness ..."
Plink.

You either know this or are uncannily close to the truth, but Mozart's little ditty-sonatas for four hands were written PRECISELY in such a way so that Mozart could play finger-footsie (for lack of a better term) with the ladies he was teaching.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2018, 07:56:34 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on October 22, 2018, 03:00:09 AM

For me the whole point of listening to Scarlatti is that his sonatas are quite different from Bach fugues, Handel suites or the French clavecinists.

Do you reckon this sounds a bit like Scarlatti?

https://youtube.com/v/dcODeWdFVuY
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on October 22, 2018, 08:46:56 AM
Certainly more than the Art of Fugue...! Among the more obviously brilliant sections of the Goldberg variations are maybe also some somewhat close to Scarlatti and the D major and (I think) B flat major preludes from WTC II also remind me of Scarlatti to some extent. But overall this does not change the fact that the more lyrical or "gypsy guitar" like Scarlatti sonatas are quite unlike Bach.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on March 28, 2019, 09:58:35 PM
(https://i91.fastpic.ru/big/2017/0302/7b/b1d83baa48da13ccbed6243036e8b87b.jpg)


I think this is worth hearing, for two reasons. First, the selection of sonatas is creative. And second, more importantly, Demidenko's touch combines strength and lightness in a distinctive way.

(NB his second Scarlatti CD. There appears to be another.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on March 30, 2019, 02:46:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2018, 07:56:34 AM
Do you reckon this sounds a bit like Scarlatti?

https://youtube.com/v/dcODeWdFVuY

Many think so, but I find the piece rather German in conception and far more weighty and condensed than anything Scarlatti ever wrote. The similarity to Scarlatti relates to the outer form but not to the content. This is also true of the pieces Jo498 mentions above.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on July 06, 2019, 06:13:52 AM
Some interesting comments by Thiery Mechler on playing Scarlatti on a totally anachronistic organ

QuoteBut before going deeper into the clever badinage, it is necessary to go back in time, to the Baroque period. In 1685 precisely, a great year for music, were born three of the most famous Baroque musicians: Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750 ), Georg Friedrich Haendel ( 1685-1759 ), and... Domenico Scar-latti (1685-1747). Three musicians whose music has crossed the ages, to reach us, intact. Three musicians who were initiated into their art in their native lands: Germany for the first two, Italy for the latter. Before taking to the road to live out their métier, Bach spent his life and composed the whole of his work in Ger-many, either roaming the regions or living a sedentary life in Leipzig. As for Haendel, he had chosen to de-velop his art in England, within the entourage of King George I. Finally, Scarlatti settled in Madrid, Spain, in 1729, following his famous student, Princess Maria Magdalena Barbara, who was married to the heir to the kingdom of Spain. After having devoted his time of composition to the opera and vocal works, the son of Alessandro Scarlatti concentrated on the harpsichord, an instrument that Domenico mastered during his studies in his youth in Italy. The story goes that Scarlatti and Haendel were opposed, in a friendly way, in a musical tournament in Rome; Scarlatti won on the harpsichord, Haendel on the organ.

The catalogue of Scarlatti is essentially composed of works for the harpsichord, including 555 sonatas or essercizi, written in only one movement, each in binary form with one or two themes, and each with its own temperament and character. Scarlatti did not really wish to classify them specifically, unlike Bach who would group several pieces under one name. The sonatas by Scarlatti can be distinguished today thanks to the classification carried out by Ralph Kirkpatrick.

In his sonatas, Scarlatti proposes a digest of the science of the counterpoint of the time, while being in-novative with the melody, which he integrates into the rhythm and the harmony, using dissonances, abrupt modulations, rhythmic and melodic contrasts. All of those are concentrated in only one relatively short movement, in a boundless virtuosity, which is not unlike another virtuoso of the keyboard years later, Franz Liszt, whom one will not fail to compare with Scarlatti. Paul Dukas reinforced this comparison, saying that Searlatti's sonatas, even though they test primarily the agility of the fingers, are above all pieces of music, a music which must have seemed to the harpsichordists of the time as rich in effect and as complicated in execution as the Studies of Chopin or Liszt may have appeared to the pianists of the 19th century.

In his unpublished recording, Thierry Mechler selected 14 of the 555 sonatas composed by Domenico Scarlatti, which he interprets on the Callinet organ of Issenheim. He explains to us the reasons of this new choice:

Thierry Mechler, you chose to interpret on the organ a selection of 14 sonatas of Domenico Scarlatti, originally written for the harpsichord. Why this choice?

I always function as I feel it, and I found it very interesting to play these sonatas on the organ rather than the piano or the harpsichord because it enables me to emphasize a side that one discovers more and more on the organ: the articulation and the touch. For about thirty years organists and teachers have been discovering the attraction of articulations other than mere legato play, discoveries that will make it possible to go _further in interpretation, by giving a transparent side, almost in filigree. It also makes it possible to emphasize some effects, a sonorous palette, some phrasing, that only the organ allows.

In this recording, the choices of registration give some sonatas a certain character "a la francaise", others unmistakenly sound like Bach's, others finally sound as light as sonatas by Vivaldi. Is it surprising?

Each of the 555 sonatas is a microcosm per se, a very technical miniature. Each has its rhythm, its phras-ing, its identity: I wanted to give each of them a spirit that defines it, thanks to the colour of the organ. I like colours very much and I do not restrict in my choices. A music which crosses the time and is well composed has three elements: rhythm, harmony, counterpoint. The three of them are present in each sonata, so the interpreter does not have to compensate for the absence of one of the three elements. The instrument is just the medium that makes it possible to relay the emotions of the listener. If that is done with corwiction, the music is respected.

In addition, it is necessary to play according to the instrument that one has. The Callinet organ of Is-senheim is rich in colours and allows to put forward its sonorities "a la francaise", its terrestrial side... It is important to be able to use its possibilities to the maximum! Finally, I think that if Scarlatti had played on the Issenheim organ he would undoubtedly have adapted his playing to the capacities of the instrument.


You propose, in the first and last tracks of your recording, the same sonata in B minor, but in radically different tempi and registrations. Is this a way of showing that the same piece can be read in various man-ners, according to the feeling of the moment?

In fact I had chosen two registrations: the first one ethereal, with nasard and tremblant, to give a celestial contemplative side. The second, with the montre, was more terrestrial. Since I could not make up my mind, I found it interesting to give both versions, at the beginning and in the end of the recording "between heaven and earth", in the fashion of a portico. Besides this gives a unity to the recording, a little like a cycle. I like cycles, I function a lot in cycles, particularly in my recordings.


It seems that Scarlatti seldom gave a name or a specific identity to his sonatas. In your selection appears the sonata in G minor entitled ICatzenfugue, the cat-fugue. That is a funny name for a piece, isn't it?

Katzenfugue derives its name from the fact that Scarlatti's cat might have walked on the keyboard of the harpsichord, playing some notes with its paws. Scarlatti gathered these notes into the theme of his sonata. A rather twisted theme, very chromatic, it once again corroborates the richness of his writing and inspiration. It is characteristic of all his sonatas, very dense and innovative for their time.

Anne Suply / Translation by Alain Collange
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Rinaldo on July 29, 2019, 02:26:22 AM
The Complete 555 Domenico Scarlatti Harpsichord Sonatas - ALL AT THE SAME TIME:

(play only at your own risk)

https://www.youtube.com/v/wanpSQXU_3Y

The comment section is glorious ("Still better than listening to one on piano"). Also k.104 emerging at the end as the last sonata standing, love it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on July 29, 2019, 04:26:27 AM
Thankyou for that.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on October 10, 2019, 11:16:47 AM
What are people's thoughts (if any) on the Hantaï Scarlatti series on Mirare?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 10, 2019, 11:30:39 AM
Quote from: amw on October 10, 2019, 11:16:47 AM
What are people's thoughts (if any) on the Hantaï Scarlatti series on Mirare?

The first one has a sort of strange fascination. As does his early recording on Astrée.

I got bored after that.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 10, 2019, 12:40:11 PM
Let me add something.

Here's something he said in an early interview  -- my emphasis

QuoteScarlatti est en péril, sous-estimé par mes confrères clavecinistes. Ce sont jusqu'à présent les pianistes qui l'ont servi le mieux, ont su mettre en évidence la structure des sonates. Pourtant, le piano rend peu justice à cette musique qui exploite toutes les possibilités du clavecin. Scarlatti dans ses pages les plus flamboyantes, doit sonner comme du Liszt ou du Scriabine, mais les pianistes ont tendance à en faire des miniatures. Quant aux clavecinistes, leur problème vient de leur culture du détail et du raffinement. Scarlatti n'est pas Bach. Son langage fait de courtes cellules répétitives qui créent et alternent des couleurs et climats très variés  ne se rapproche en rien de ce qui était connu à son époque. Pour le comprendre, il faut être attentif à ces particularités structurelles, être coloriste dans l'âme.



It's that conception of the music's distinctive essential quality as being "made of small repetitive cells which create and alternate varied colours and climates" which makes the first couple of Hantai's recordings stand out. That and a complete refusal to play the music melodically. And a tremendous sense of "letting go", self abandon, almost to the point of madness, especially in the second halfs of the sonatas, where the repetitions can become more frenzied.

There was a lot of discussion about this earlier, maybe on this thread, I remember someone saying (maybe Premont) that he may well have been a "coloriste dans l'âme" in the earlier recordings, but that he lost it rapidly.  I'm just not enough of a lover of the music to be able to form a fair judgement of the later recordings -- I probably haven't given them the attention they deserve.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on October 10, 2019, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: amw on October 10, 2019, 11:16:47 AM
What are people's thoughts (if any) on the Hantaï Scarlatti series on Mirare?

;D LOVE the cacophony!

I rather disagree re: Hantai. I find Hantaï's Scarlatti not ideal, granted, and disappointing given the very high expectations I had of it and still do, whenever a new volume is released. BUT I also still find it the best Scarlatti-on-Harpsichord there is. https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/02/some-scarlatti.html (https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/02/some-scarlatti.html)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: San Antone on October 10, 2019, 02:32:01 PM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on October 21, 2018, 07:12:00 AM
First and foremost:

Pletnev: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/02/dip-your-ears-no-26.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/02/dip-your-ears-no-26.html) & http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/Mar08/scarlatti_5181862.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/Mar08/scarlatti_5181862.htm)

Agree wholeheartedly.   8)

Also, his Taneyev chamber CD is very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on October 10, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 10, 2019, 11:30:39 AM
The first one has a sort of strange fascination. As does his early recording on Astrée.

I got bored after that.
I have the Astrée recording and enjoy it on the occasions I listen to it. I'd always had the impression that people did not think as highly of the Mirare issues but perhaps I will just have to listen for myself.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 10, 2019, 08:47:02 PM
He uses a Flemish harpsichord in the later volumes, that may be part of what's going on - the sound is less warm. Dipping into the others you can hear that the basic approach hasn't changed, though I do think it sounds as though it's executed with less freshness and élan, a sense of routine application of a formula has crept in after the first Mirare, not a bad formula, but a formula nevertheless. There seems to be little attempt to give each sonata a distinct character. So basically it is predictable, thrilling sometimes, but predictable. This could be just me, blasé and not a great fan of the composer.

It's like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. Amazing at first, but after a short while you've had enough.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on October 11, 2019, 02:27:27 AM
I agree the first two Mirare volumes have some quite startling (percussive, discordant) moments, worth having at least one of these in a Scarlatti collection for 'something different' I think.  The other volumes are 'more of the same' though as suggested above, reined-in a little - it really depends if the particular selection of sonatas on any one volume is a fit for your collection.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61eSKPUGYXL._SS500_.jpg)

I'm not a harpsichord aficionado and don't really appreciate the differences in the various styles of instrument, but Hantai has a tone (in the more delicate passages) that is unusually silvery and chime-like.  I enjoy it but I can well imagine that more hard-core harpsichord purists might dislike it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on October 11, 2019, 04:03:29 AM
I did some repertoire inventory—I have at least one recording of every sonata with a K number because I have the Belder integral (and enjoy it a good deal). But there are some sonatas that I have too many of and am not really looking for new recordings of, simply because they get recorded too often. In my collection those include:

K9 - 13 recordings [no strong favourites]
K27 - 8 recordings [favourite probably Marcelle Meyer]
K29 - 8 recordings [no strong favourites]
K32 - 9 recordings [favourite probably Maria Tipo]
K69 - 9 recordings [no strong favourites]
K87 - 13 recordings [favourite probably Christian Zacharias]
K96 - 8 recordings [favourite probably Andreas Staier]
K113 - 8 recordings [no strong favourites]
K132 - 8 recordings [honestly don't even like the sonata much]
K141 - 15 recordings [favourite probably Hantaï Astrée]
K146 - 9 recordings [no strong favourites]
K159 - 11 recordings [no strong favourites]
K208 - 11 recordings [favourite probably Alexandre Tharaud]
K213 - 10 recordings [favourite probably Aline Zylberajch]
K380 - 13 recordings [favourite probably Yuja Wang]
K427 - 8 recordings [favourite probably Marcelle Meyer]
K430 - 8 recordings [no strong favourites]
K450 - 8 recordings [favourite probably Stephen Marchionda on guitar]
K454 - 8 recordings [no strong favourites]
K466 - 12 recordings [favourite probably Christian Zacharias]
K474 - 9 recordings [favourite probably Christian Zacharias]
K481 - 10 recordings [favourite probably Aline Zylberajch]
K491 - 12 recordings [no strong favourites]
K492 - 11 recordings [no strong favourites]
K513 - 8 recordings [no strong favourites]

Whereas some of my favourite sonatas are less frequently recorded, despite me trying to collect most of the recordings including those sonatas, e.g. K24, K63, K296, K417, K460, K478.... and for others that I quite like the only recording I have is Belder's, e.g. K80, K169, K440 or K511.

Obviously I listen to piano more than harpsichord but still, people really should start looking beyond the ten or twenty "favourite" sonatas at this point....
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 11, 2019, 04:48:25 AM
Try Francesco Cera. He's recorded on both piano and harpsichord, a boots on the keyboard style, and the selection is inspired.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on October 11, 2019, 06:16:10 AM
Happy to see a shout out for Marchionda's guitar recital, which is really well done (and one of my favorite ways to listen to the slower, more contemplative sonatas).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2019, 05:38:50 AM
Quote from: amw on October 10, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
I have the Astrée recording and enjoy it on the occasions I listen to it. I'd always had the impression that people did not think as highly of the Mirare issues but perhaps I will just have to listen for myself.

If you find yourself enjoying the early Hantai, maybe try to hear this, she worked with Hantai on it and it shows.

(http://paraty.fr/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Gordis_Scarlatti__COUV_HM-300x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on June 07, 2020, 01:10:02 AM
Here's what I found to be an (unexpected) gem:

Margherita Torretta: Bang-On Scarlatti From Out Of Nowhere

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZaZ4oXXsAA8Ipi?format=jpg&name=small) (//http://)

Although one reader's response was immediately:

From out of nowhere indeed. Please send it back from whence it came.

No 10/10 for Torretta D. Scarlatti. Generous would be 6/6.

This vanity downloader's not to be mentioned with the review's reference recordings, nor more than a dozen others I have on legitimate labels.

Travesty.

Boris borisgoodenoff@yahoo.com


I might be willing to suggest that 10/10 was 'spur of the moment'; I had initially rated it just below. But then I thought: NO. I'm enjoying this so damn much, I won't let caution make me take it down a notch only so not to 'expose' myself. And I'm happy to stand by it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on June 07, 2020, 04:25:56 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on June 07, 2020, 01:10:02 AM
Here's what I found to be an (unexpected) gem:

Margherita Torretta: Bang-On Scarlatti From Out Of Nowhere

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZaZ4oXXsAA8Ipi?format=jpg&name=small) (//http://)

Although one reader's response was immediately:

From out of nowhere indeed. Please send it back from whence it came.

No 10/10 for Torretta D. Scarlatti. Generous would be 6/6.

This vanity downloader's not to be mentioned with the review's reference recordings, nor more than a dozen others I have on legitimate labels.

Travesty.

Boris borisgoodenoff@yahoo.com


I might be willing to suggest that 10/10 was 'spur of the moment'; I had initially rated it just below. But then I thought: NO. I'm enjoying this so damn much, I won't let caution make me take it down a notch only so not to 'expose' myself. And I'm happy to stand by it.
Maybe it's the mood I'm in but I found this super annoying when I tried it today. Sometimes my first impression of things is wrong but she sure seems to use a lot of dynamic changes in this recording.

By the way, I wonder if anyone here has a fondness for any particular Scarlatti recordings on historic fortepiano? I have several I want to go back and listen to, such as one by Joanna Leach.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on June 07, 2020, 09:03:03 AM
Quote from: milk on June 07, 2020, 04:25:56 AM
Maybe it's the mood I'm in but I found this super annoying when I tried it today. Sometimes my first impression of things is wrong but she sure seems to use a lot of dynamic changes in this recording.

Shamelessly so! Yes.  ;D

Quote from: milk on June 07, 2020, 04:25:56 AM
By the way, I wonder if anyone here has a fondness for any particular Scarlatti recordings on historic fortepiano? I have several I want to go back and listen to, such as one by Joanna Leach.

I only have Linda Nichols and I do not remember that to have done the trick for me, interpretatively... and interesting, if at all, only because of the instrument. (Which usually isn't enough on it's own. Except perhaps with a really juicy harpsichord.)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on June 07, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
Doesn't Belder use Fortepiano on one or more volumes of his Scarlatti series? Or is this only true for his Soler discs?
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on June 07, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 07, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
Doesn't Belder use Fortepiano on one or more volumes of his Scarlatti series? Or is this only true for his Soler discs?

I don't remember Belder doing it. Lester does, though.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on June 07, 2020, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 07, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
Doesn't Belder use Fortepiano on one or more volumes of his Scarlatti series? Or is this only true for his Soler discs?
I quite like his Soler. To me, he really made the case for Soler being a great musician in his own right - whereas before I thought of him as a shadow of Scarlatti.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on June 28, 2020, 08:40:27 AM
Nice dress - but playing too mannered.  She likes slow, and not without some Brucknerian pauses.
Nice-sounding piano too, cleanly recorded - but far too close, no air round it at all.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91r6mV1FD-L._SS500_.jpg)
Scarlatti - 20 Sonatas; Margherita Torretta, Piano
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Brian on June 29, 2020, 07:28:32 AM
Naxos' newest Scarlatti volume, Vol. 24, features Alon Goldstein, who's already appeared on the label playing Mozart concertos in chamber music reductions. He's also recorded by Norbert Kraft and Bonnie Silver in Toronto, a major step up from some of the recent volumes that were tinnily/boxily recorded in random recital halls in places like Oklahoma.

Goldstein's volume includes K. 1 (!) and leads off with K. 159, a longtime favorite of pianists and of me. The jolly tolling bells in C major on this one have enticed many pianists to embrace echo effects or play the many repetitions a few octaves up or down (see Yevgeny Sudbin, who really, uh, "makes it his own" with embellishments). Goldstein is much more sober, while still not being fully sober or academic or dry. That general description applies to the whole album - mostly sober, more on the classical side, but not boring. There are only a handful of slower/longer sonatas on the album, and Goldstein doesn't really attack the faster ones the way that, say, Goran Filipec did, so the result dynamically is a whole lot of middle.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 29, 2020, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 07, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
Doesn't Belder use Fortepiano on one or more volumes of his Scarlatti series?

Yes, Denzil Wraight after Ferrini. For example, for some of the sonatas around K 345. (Vol. 8. )
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on June 29, 2020, 09:08:11 PM
Quote from: milk on June 07, 2020, 04:25:56 AM

By the way, I wonder if anyone here has a fondness for any particular Scarlatti recordings on historic fortepiano? I have several I want to go back and listen to, such as one by Joanna Leach.

Joanna Leach - just a nice piano nicely played.

Francesco Cera Vol 3 - boots on the keyboard style playing and Cinderella sonatas. 

Enrico Baiano, intelligent exploration of how piano specific effects arguably fit some of the sonatas particularly well.

Emilia Fadini, an interesting theme - the Clementi / Scarlatti relationship.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on June 30, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 29, 2020, 09:08:11 PM
Joanna Leach - just a nice piano nicely played.

Francesco Cera Vol 3 - boots on the keyboard style playing and Cinderella sonatas. 

Enrico Baiano, intelligent exploration of how piano specific effects arguably fit some of the sonatas particularly well.

Emilia Fadini, an interesting theme - the Clementi / Scarlatti relationship.
Have you heard peter Katin's Clementi recordings on square piano? Really good stuff.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on July 10, 2020, 02:59:55 AM
Qobuz seems to be adding several volumes of the Christoph Ullrich complete sonatas set on Tacet this month (and possibly other streaming sites will do the same). Vols 3 & 4 (K98 thru K176) are already available. I'm listening now and enjoying them although the playing is somewhat "backgroundy", avoiding dynamic extremes, generally slow in tempo (e.g. K132 is 9:01 vs Belder 6:00; K119 is 5:46 vs Demidenko 4:56) and thus potentially a bit boring. But Scarlatti repeated himself so much that maybe boredom is the point. And it's nicer piano playing than Carlo Grante at least.

It's the one complete cycle I've never seen anyone talk about, presumably because Tacet has always been so expensive; maybe now it'll get some traction.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on July 10, 2020, 03:33:35 AM
Quote from: milk on June 30, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Have you heard peter Katin's Clementi recordings on square piano? Really good stuff.

I've never managed to ever get to the end of a Clementi sonata.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on July 10, 2020, 04:51:31 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 10, 2020, 03:33:35 AM
I've never managed to ever get to the end of a Clementi sonata.
Ha ha. I can't say I'm a big promoter of his but I do like the sound of the square piano.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Jo498 on July 10, 2020, 05:11:40 AM
I liked Demidenkos Clementi anthology (hyperion) and I have a few more anthologies (Horowitz did one disc as well).
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on July 10, 2020, 03:41:28 PM
With Clementi I mostly like the early sonatas, e.g. Op. 6 no. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRQGFlBtHsk , Op. 13 no. 6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIlqXl-LnvU, Op. 2 no. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuT2GlzUv3U

I'm not really sure what changes but for me it feels like at some point after around 1785 his imagination starts getting restricted to formulas, whereas before that his idea of sonata form was less set in stone and more open to experimentation, along the lines of what Beethoven and Dussek were also doing around the same time. He's not quite up to their level even in those early works but they're still fun to hear. The late sonatas that mostly get anthologised by modern pianists I've never found as appealing.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on July 11, 2020, 02:59:55 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BLeIx0qKL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on July 11, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: milk on July 11, 2020, 02:59:55 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BLeIx0qKL._SY355_.jpg)

I listened to the first one, op 25/5 - lovely instrument, well recorded and charming music. Some parts of the sonata sounded a bit like Haydn, others like Beethoven.  I just have no patience for this sort of thing at the moment.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Todd on July 22, 2020, 10:46:02 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/915M5BgepCL._SS425_.jpg)

Jed Distler praised Eylam Keshet's Scarlatti so highly that I had to hear it.  The praise is well earned.  Keshet is basically about rhythmic acuity married to exquisite touch.  K228 is a marvel under his fingers, and both K338 and K352 are not too far behind.  Not only do I want to hear him play more Scarlatti, but I want to hear him play everything else, starting with Mozart and Chabrier.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 21, 2021, 08:24:48 AM
Que & Poul: Back in the deeps of Time, when there was a Borders on Washington Street in Boston, I picked up 3 volumes of the then-ongoing (I think) Pieter-Jan Belder series. While I do indeed enjoy the Scott Ross set, it was this taste via Belder which drew me down the Scarlatti rabbithole.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 21, 2021, 09:32:44 AM
Al que quiere, pianist Sandro Ivo Bartoli uploads one or more sonatas each day on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/v/yzLYuU97pD0

https://www.youtube.com/v/EWRSHcJ29SY

https://www.youtube.com/v/7EUCBWCMbDE
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 21, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 21, 2021, 08:24:48 AM
Que & Poul: Back in the deeps of Time, when there was a Borders on Washington Street in Boston, I picked up 3 volumes of the then-ongoing (I think) Pieter-Jan Belder series. While I do indeed enjoy the Scott Ross set, it was this taste via Belder which drew me down the Scarlatti rabbithole.

i can say, that Belders set was instrumental in increasing my interest in Scarlattis sonatas, much more so than the recordings by Scott Rush.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2021, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 21, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Scott Rush.

Good to see you're on form.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: amw on January 21, 2021, 01:39:23 PM
Harpsichord sound plays a major role in my appreciation of a recording, but apparently not in the way it does for most people, since I found Scott Ross's harpsichord consistently out of tune (i.e. he uses a particularly unequal temperament), coarse sounding, and colourless. Most people seem to love it. (My reference for ideal harpsichord sound is Céline Frisch's WTC.) That makes Belder my favourite Scarlatti integral, but I'm not sure if it's because the performances are particularly good or simply because I like the instruments he plays on.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 21, 2021, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2021, 01:32:20 PM
Good to see you're on form.

See PM.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2021, 01:48:48 PM
Quote from: amw on January 21, 2021, 01:39:23 PM
Harpsichord sound plays a major role in my appreciation of a recording, but apparently not in the way it does for most people, since I found Scott Ross's harpsichord consistently out of tune (i.e. he uses a particularly unequal temperament), coarse sounding, and colourless. Most people seem to love it. (My reference for ideal harpsichord sound is Céline Frisch's WTC.) That makes Belder my favourite Scarlatti integral, but I'm not sure if it's because the performances are particularly good or simply because I like the instruments he plays on.

A copy of the Nuremberg Vater (1738) in WTC, which Dantone uses for Vol 7 of the Stradivarius Scarlatti series, Dantone is rather better recorded in the bass notes - less cavernous.

Fuck, that's just so nerdy. What have I become? I'm out of here.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 21, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
i can say, that Belders set was instrumental in increasing my interest in Scarlattis sonatas, much more so than the recordings by Scott Rush.

I should revisit Belder. Fact is, I was interested in a full set by Belder, but couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 22, 2021, 02:32:02 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2021, 01:48:48 PM
A copy of the Nuremberg Vater (1738) in WTC, which Dantone uses for Vol 7 of the Stradivarius Scarlatti series, Dantone is rather better recorded in the bass notes - less cavernous.

Fuck, that's just so nerdy. What have I become? I'm out of here.

Well despite my outburst last night I can confirm this morning that that Dantone is very good - on streaming platforms in the UK at least, and a great pleasure to dip into.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 22, 2021, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
I should revisit Belder. Fact is, I was interested in a full set by Belder, but couldn't find it.

It's obviously OOP. The only option may be to look for a second hand item.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: milk on January 30, 2021, 03:17:53 AM
I'm trying this on a whim:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61o7cEJ08gL._SX355_.jpg)
I have to say I like this piano and the way it's recorded.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 03, 2022, 10:30:10 AM
Scarlatti, Domenico (1685-1757) - Essercizi, K. 1-30 w/ Alain Planès on a fortepiano (Johann Schantz, Vienna, ca. 1800) - I like D. Scarlatti on both harpsichord and piano, but my first recording on an in-between competitor - reviews attached (including one from our own Jens).  I owned the 3 early Pierre Hantaï recordings, below are 3 newer releases which I've not purchased but did a listen on a Spotify playlist. My piano discs include Angela Hewitt (2), Yevgeny Sudbin (2), and Mikhail Pletnev (2) - for those interested, I've put together a Numbers spreadsheet converted to PDF (second attachment) that shows which sonatas are being played by all of these performers.  Dave :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/096/MI0001096486.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pUd9A9qRL._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wlBvnCf+L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61RV-69CKeL._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Mandryka on January 04, 2022, 01:11:51 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 03, 2022, 10:30:10 AM
Scarlatti, Domenico (1685-1757) - Essercizi, K. 1-30 w/ Alain Planès on a fortepiano (Johann Schantz, Vienna, ca. 1800) - I like D. Scarlatti on both harpsichord and piano, but my first recording on an in-between competitor - reviews attached (including one from our own Jens).  I owned the 3 early Pierre Hantaï recordings, below are 3 newer releases which I've not purchased but did a listen on a Spotify playlist. My piano discs include Angela Hewitt (2), Yevgeny Sudbin (2), and Mikhail Pletnev (2) - for those interested, I've put together a Numbers spreadsheet converted to PDF (second attachment) that shows which sonatas are being played by all of these performers.  Dave :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/096/MI0001096486.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pUd9A9qRL._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wlBvnCf+L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61RV-69CKeL._SL1200_.jpg)

I wonder if you would enjoy an organ or a clavichord recital. Maybe use Spotify to check the discs by Andrea Marcon and by Johannes Maria Bogner.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: aukhawk on January 04, 2022, 02:04:49 AM
Planès definitely looks interesting.  I enjoyed the energy and modernity of the first two Hantai sets, but listening to the later ones I found his style wearing rather thin.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 04, 2022, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: aukhawk on January 04, 2022, 02:04:49 AM
Planès definitely looks interesting.  I enjoyed the energy and modernity of the first two Hantai sets, but listening to the later ones I found his style wearing rather thin.

I fully agree with you on Hantaï. At the end of the day he is not my man.

As to Planes, he offers some beautiful and imaginative playing, but it's a bit frustrating that he didn't take the full step and used a fortepiano from Scarlatti's time. Using a Schantz is neither nor.

Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2022, 02:25:29 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 21, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
[...] the recordings by Scott Rush.

:D
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 04, 2022, 07:06:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 04, 2022, 01:11:51 AM
I wonder if you would enjoy an organ or a clavichord recital. Maybe use Spotify to check the discs by Andrea Marcon and by Johannes Maria Bogner.

Hi Mandryka - well, I do have a guitar version, but took your advice and found the clavichord and organ recordings shown below on Spotify - just completed a listen and enjoyed both - now rather pricey on Amazon USA and not sure that I need the physical discs, so my Spotify playlist should serve me well if I want alternate instruments - thanks for the suggestions.  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41VA-+6c9ML.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71mVMQU7jzL._SL1400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 04, 2022, 07:17:50 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 04, 2022, 02:15:26 AM
I fully agree with you on Hantaï. At the end of the day he is not my man.

As to Planes, he offers some beautiful and imaginative playing, but it's a bit frustrating that he didn't take the full step and used a fortepiano from Scarlatti's time. Using a Schantz is neither nor.

Well, as to selection of the Schantz fortepiano, the liner notes state the instrument was in great shape for ca. 1800 (earlier ones, if pre-1757, may not have been?) and the feel was more like a harpsichord, so considered a good choice as a transitional instrument.  Quoted below are some fun snippets from Jens review that I linked in my previous post, for those interested.  Dave :)

Quote......That sorry hybrid of an instrument has had a troubled past, usually offending both pianists and harpsichordists, by offering the worst of two worlds with few of their respective good qualities.....Here now is further proof that the twangy transition bastard, that twilight creature of keyboard development, presents in itself some very pleasing characteristics.....Alain Planès's playing is vigorous, full of conviction, and ready at any point to convey the joy that lies within each exercise. His Schantz pianoforte's unique sound merits the recording alone.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 04, 2022, 08:52:09 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 03, 2022, 10:30:10 AM
Scarlatti, Domenico (1685-1757) - Essercizi, K. 1-30 w/ Alain Planès on a fortepiano (Johann Schantz, Vienna, ca. 1800) - I like D. Scarlatti on both harpsichord and piano, but my first recording on an in-between competitor - reviews attached (including one from our own Jens).  I owned the 3 early Pierre Hantaï recordings, below are 3 newer releases which I've not purchased but did a listen on a Spotify playlist. My piano discs include Angela Hewitt (2), Yevgeny Sudbin (2), and Mikhail Pletnev (2) - for those interested, I've put together a Numbers spreadsheet converted to PDF (second attachment) that shows which sonatas are being played by all of these performers.  Dave :)

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/096/MI0001096486.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pUd9A9qRL._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wlBvnCf+L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61RV-69CKeL._SL1200_.jpg)

In fun timing, Sandro Ivo Bartoli just celebrated finishing his Scarlatti survey with a video of the complete Essercizi per Gravicembalo, K. 1-30 let me know what you think, Dave.

https://www.youtube.com/v/bCRzEwIYm-c
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 04, 2022, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 04, 2022, 07:17:50 AM
Well, as to selection of the Schantz fortepiano, the liner notes state the instrument was in great shape for ca. 1800 (earlier ones, if pre-1757, may not have been?) and the feel was more like a harpsichord, so considered a good choice as a transitional instrument. 

The feel was more like a harpsichord? More than what? And does it refer to the sound or to the touch?

And copies of fortepianos from before 1750 have been made at least during the last twenty years. Others have recorded Scarlatti on such instruments.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 04, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
I should blush to say something so obvious, but I am immediately taken with the superficial similarity in subject between the K. 30 and the Royal Theme for the BWV 1079

https://www.youtube.com/v/84g9aFOuFd4
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: premont on January 04, 2022, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 04, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
I should blush to say something so obvious, but I am immediately taken with the superficial similarity in subject between the K. 30 and the Royal Theme for the BWV 1079

You know, according to tradition the Royal Theme is composed by Frederick the Great.  However I have never thought of any - even superficial - similarity with the "cat" fugue.
Title: Re: Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)
Post by: Karl Henning on January 04, 2022, 12:35:36 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 04, 2022, 11:20:40 AM
You know, according to tradition the Royal Theme is composed by Frederick the Great.  However I have never thought of any - even superficial - similarity with the "cat" fugue.

I'm thinking primarily of the opening ascending gestures: G - Bb - Eb - F# VS. C - Eb - G - Ab Not a close resemblance, to be sure.