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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: bwv 1080 on July 25, 2007, 06:10:15 PM

Title: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 25, 2007, 06:10:15 PM
Pretty cool description from the liner notes in recent DG re-release Garden Rain
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AW43AMRSL._AA240_.jpg)
Copied from the old forum


A good overview from http://www.soundintermedia.co.uk/treeline-online/biog.html

Quote
Quotetiny, delicate man, standing just over 5ft high, Takemitsu was a giant in Japanese cultural life and in international contemporary music. He wrote hundreds of works for the concert platform, as well as 93 film scores, a detective novel and critical works on music, film and literature. A leading intellectual, he also had an insatiable appetite for popular culture. He was a fanatical cinema-goer, and had an encyclopaedic knowledge of Western pop music. He had a famous sense of humour and a prodigious gift for friendship, counting among his close friends John Cage, Morton Feldman, Oliver Knussen, Seiji Ozawa and many other leading artists and musicians.

Influences

'I am self taught, but I consider Debussy my teacher'

'My teachers are Duke Ellington and nature'

-'I have recognised my own culture through studying modern Western music'.

'I feel a deep reverence for the precise workings and the great order in nature, and still wish to learn more from nature as I compose music'

As a young man, Takemitsu had a long illness, and lay for several years in bed listening to post-war American military radio. This instilled a knowledge and love of jazz and for Western classical music. From Debussy, who impressed him particularly, he identified 'colour, light and shadow' as important elements. This pervades all of his music, but is most explicit in Green for orchestra, which he described as 'an attempt to enter the secrets of Debussy's music'

He assimilated influences from Western Avant Garde music. Sonic experimentation from Stockhausen and Cage, precision and economy from Morton Feldman, opulent colours and ecstatic sensuality from Messiaen.

Only gradually did Takemitsu, in common with many other Japanese artists after the second world war, acknowledge influences from Japanese traditional culture in his work. Gradually, however, he began to allow Japanese traditional sounds and a more explicitly Japanese sensibility into his music November Steps is a concerto for biwa (Japanese lute) and shakuhachi (bamboo flute), and In an Autumn Garden is a major work for Gagaku, the Japanese court orchestra. Characterised by a haunting and seemingly endless melody played on flutesryteiki, hichiriki (shawms) backed by mouth organs (sho) and drums.

Nature is a constant background to Takemitsu's music, and is reflected in many of his titles: Rain Coming, Tree Line, How Slow the Wind, Toward the Sea, Archipelago S, All in Twilight, In the Woods, And Then I Knew 'twas Wind

As a guitarist, I am grateful for his substantial contributions to the repertiore  which include All in Twilight, Toward the Sea (gtr + alto flute), Equinox and Folios.  His solo piano music such as Rain Tree Sketches I & II is also excellent.  On the orchestral side, I Hear the Water Dreaming is a great piece.  He also has some of the coolest piece titles. He also wrote 93 film scores, including Kurosawa's "Ran".  His musical language was heavily influenced by Debussy and Ravel but also reflects the influence of Messiaen, Boulez and Webern but with a unique Japanese sensitivity.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bhodges on July 26, 2007, 09:44:32 AM
I love Takemitsu, although I've heard more of his chamber music, e.g., Quatrain II, and the Rain Tree sketches you mentioned for piano.

Around age 16 I bought the LP below, with Asterism, Requiem, Green and The Dorian Horizon, with Ozawa and Toronto, and played it all the time.  And the music to Ran was marvelous, although I haven't listened to it other than with the film.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Maciek on July 26, 2007, 01:24:26 PM
I love Takemitsu too. :D 8) Though I must admit he is one of the very few composers who I can't listen to unless I'm in the right mood. Unless that requirement is met, his music irritates me terribly. Actually, at the moment I can't think of another composer with whom I have the same problem... ???
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: lukeottevanger on July 26, 2007, 01:38:34 PM
....ooh, I can!

Seriously, Takemitsu is a very important composer for me, for all sorts of reasons. I do think there are few composers who can write music as sheerly beautiful as his - those who think modern music is of necessity ugly simply don't know they are born! In all sincerity, in simple sonic terms there is nothing in all music as ravishing as, say, From me flows what you call time, which seems to me to go about as far as music can go in its particular direction. The danger is that the music becomes too sensuous and loses its spine - this is not to say that it needs to be faster, louder or more abrasive, but that it skirts with becoming inconsequential unless there is more substance there - in the piece I've cited, which I am loathe to criticise, the motivic material holding it all together is possibly stretched pretty thin. But in other works, Takemitsu's finest, this is not a problem, and everything is held in miraculous balance.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Sean on July 26, 2007, 11:36:17 PM
Luke, I remember the CBSO did that one in concert early 1998, but I've never heard it; I've explored about 14 works and find him quite an acquired taste, often needing some patience with all that interest in timbre, a little like Kurtag? I did like his film music for Rising sun with Sean Connery!
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 27, 2007, 05:56:00 AM
And its not like all Takemitsu is ephemeral.  All in Twilight and Folios have quite rhythmicly interesting moments.  Rain Tree Sketches for piano does as well.  But I take Luke's point about the sparseness of the motivic material.  Thinking of pieces like Flock decends into the Pentagonal Garden or I Hear the Water Dreaming or Equinox.  It is perhaps a indicator of his skill as a composer that he can make such great pieces out of a short gesture - and stands him in contrast with his contemporaries whose work has little or no underlying motivic structure.

That being said, there probably is a correlation between the constant rain we have been having here this summer and the increased amount of Takemitsu in my CD changer.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on October 18, 2010, 08:54:02 PM
I'm starting to get a big into Takemitsu. I ordered some recordings (one of which is out-of-print and very rare Ozawa conducting November Steps, Viola Concerto, etc.).

What fascinates me about Takemitsu is the way he bends time and his overall wonderful approach to harmony. It's interesting that he is seen as an extension to Debussy, but at the same time, I can't help but agree. Those wonderful sounds he's able to conjure up through his superb orchestration are otherworldly.

He's definitely a composer who's been "under my radar" for quite some time. I wonder why this thread hasn't received more replies? Very curious....
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 19, 2010, 08:27:01 PM
Quote from: Maciek on July 26, 2007, 01:24:26 PM
I love Takemitsu too. :D 8) Though I must admit he is one of the very few composers who I can't listen to unless I'm in the right mood.

See the Feldman Thread!
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 19, 2010, 08:28:14 PM
Yea, yea, I love Takemitsu too, and all that. :-* Just don't ask me to define a piece.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: just Jeff on November 13, 2010, 12:49:03 AM
Some of the original vinyl LP jackets are beautiful

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/LP%20covers_labels/takemitsuEMIFT.jpg)

(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/LP%20covers_labels/takemitsuPhilipsFT.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/ARTOFTORUV.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/ARTOFTORUIV.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/hiptone/Unused%20Covers/TORUTAKEMINIATURII.jpg)

Collectible stuff for sure!
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Maciek on April 11, 2011, 02:27:36 PM
Have all of these been re-released on CD?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on April 11, 2011, 03:46:35 PM
One of my favorite Takemitsu works is his Viola Concerto. Has anyone heard this work? If I'm not mistaken, the only recording of this fantastic concerto is the sadly out-of-print Ozawa recording on Philips. Anyone with an interest in this composer should seek this recording out. You may find a copy in the used market, but I bought mine for around $15 and this isn't cheap. I'm not sure what it goes for now.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: lescamil on April 11, 2011, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 11, 2011, 03:46:35 PM
One of my favorite Takemitsu works is his Viola Concerto. Has anyone heard this work? If I'm not mistaken, the only recording of this fantastic concerto is the sadly out-of-print Ozawa recording on Philips. Anyone with an interest in this composer should seek this recording out. You may find a copy in the used market, but I bought mine for around $15 and this isn't cheap. I'm not sure what it goes for now.

Are you talking about A String Around Autumn? It has been released on BIS with Philip Dukes playing the solo part and Tadaaki Otaka conducting the BBC NOW. I actually like the piano concerto "riverrun" much more (it is on the same disk), personally, but A String Around Autumn was a lovely work.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on April 11, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: lescamil on April 11, 2011, 04:30:45 PM
Are you talking about A String Around Autumn? It has been released on BIS with Philip Dukes playing the solo part and Tadaaki Otaka conducting the BBC NOW. I actually like the piano concerto "riverrun" much more (it is on the same disk), personally, but A String Around Autumn was a lovely work.

Yes, that's the one. I couldn't think of the concerto's name. I haven't heard the piano concerto "riverrun," so I can't comment. I need to familiarize myself with Takemitsu some again. I'll checkout that BIS recording. How are the performances?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: lescamil on April 11, 2011, 05:12:54 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 11, 2011, 04:33:38 PM
Yes, that's the one. I couldn't think of the concerto's name. I haven't heard the piano concerto "riverrun," so I can't comment. I need to familiarize myself with Takemitsu some again. I'll checkout that BIS recording. How are the performances?

They're all top notch performances. My only quip is that they don't sound as detailed as similar performances by the London Sinfonietta, but the sound is still spectacular.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Grazioso on April 12, 2011, 05:15:33 AM
Dare I say, Takemitsu was also a prolific composer for film (over 100 scores). I love his work on the classic Kurosowa film Ran, which is a sort of King Lear in feudal Japan. Actually, just about everything in that film is intriguing.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: jowcol on April 12, 2011, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Grazioso on April 12, 2011, 05:15:33 AM
Dare I say, Takemitsu was also a prolific composer for film (over 100 scores). I love his work on the classic Kurosowa film Ran, which is a sort of King Lear in feudal Japan. Actually, just about everything in that film is intriguing.
\
Agreed.  Mieko Harada plays the greatest female villain I've ever seen on film.  She out-nasties the two older daughters in Lear.

(http://thefilmtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/ran32.jpg)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: petrarch on April 12, 2011, 05:58:41 AM
Ran is an excellent movie in many respects, with awesome photography and as others have pointed out, a great soundtrack. But for Kurosawa, my preference will have to go to Kagemusha, which is visibly more primitive than Ran, but the story and narrative are even better.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on April 30, 2012, 12:10:10 PM
I finally got a hold of my stash of 7-8 Takemitsu discs (in storage). Once again, I was faced with hours upon hours of post-Debussyian hospital music,... I thought.

I went straight for the Sony disc, with the percussion and orchestra piece From Me Flows What You Call Time, since, I thought the added percussion would make this a livelier TT piece. I'm afraid I wasn't able to stay in the room the whole time, but I still don't recall hearing any loud outbursts from the other room.

I also pulled out the Williams' Sony disc with the two guitar concertos, but these too are very very laid back. Only the double concerto Gemeaux (flute & trombone (with Lindberg!)) had a harder edge to it, but, haha, when I think about it, this only made Takemitsu sound like late Xenakis,... haha, 'hard' Takemitsu is like 'softer' Xenakis,... I'm thinking especially of Xenakis's friendliest sounding late works such as the trombone concerto Troorkh.

Anyhow, I hear that earlier Takemitsu pieces such as Arc and Green have a harder, '60s quality to them. Does anyone have these?

Takemitsu just sounds so much like Messiaen on morphine to me (Messiaen+Feldman?). He's got the same harmonies as the French master, but with an essentially static rhythm. I forever feel like his music belongs where the evening clouds part revealing the moon,... it's the same effect I get when you play parallel minor chords,... very Debussyian,... no doubt many of his works seem to blend together sonically after a while.

Still, only 1 Page on Takemitsu? :'(
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on April 30, 2012, 12:14:25 PM
*
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: kyjo on August 07, 2013, 07:33:50 PM
I was really surprised to see no Takemitsu thread here! First of all, this is not one of those long, superlative-ridden rants of mine about a composer whose music I am familiar with and love. Takemitsu has been a composer who, for some reason or another, I have never bothered to investigate. From what I've heard about his music, he writes in a post-Debussyian fashion, composing mystical and vague but lyrical music often drawing on Japanese music and poetry. Can anyone give me recommendations on where to start with Takemitsu's music and/or further clarify what his style is like? Help would be most appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Actually there is already a thread for Takemitsu:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2352.msg61470.html#msg61470
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Roberto on August 07, 2013, 10:40:31 PM
I first met with his music on a modern music concert (it was his String Quartet I think). I was fascinated immediately (at the time I was living in my Webern-era) so I decided to buy Takemitsu CD. I love his music but I need appropriate mood to listen to it. His works (what I know) are very similar in mood so I think ordinary classical music listener needs only one or two Takemitsu CD. But I am a Takemitsu-fan so I need more.  :)
Currently I have these:
[asin]B000I8OFYG[/asin]
It was my first album and I think it is the best recommendation for a Takemitsu-beginner. It is a cheap 2CD reissue of the original Denon recordings. It contains the famous Requiem for strings but Dream/Window is one of my favorite work on the 2nd CD. The best work for me is the Gémeaux. It is stirring, beautiful and the end is shocking and uplifting. (I will buy these works on the original Denon CD and give it to one of my friends.)

[asin]B000U7V99Y[/asin]
I don't like his piano music currently too much but maybe in the future...

[asin]B0000029WL[/asin]
Very good orchestral music with a good Requiem.

[asin]B000090WAR[/asin]
This CD is my current project. I listened to the first two works and these are beautiful and interesting.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Drasko on August 08, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: Roberto on August 07, 2013, 10:40:31 PM
This CD is my current project. I listened to the first two works and these are beautiful and interesting.

I'm huge Takemitsu fan as well. From that disc my favorite is Rain Spell, it's a piece so characteristic of everything I like about Takemitsu: the colors, the staticness, the japan meets west ...

It's great shame that some of his most interesting music is completely or at least very difficult to obtain. Japanese Victor has released some time ago incredible 7CD set with his film music but it was Japan-only and is nowhere to be found these days. Also the music he wrote for gagaku orchestra. A single movement was on DG's In An Autumn Garden (out of print, again) while the whole piece (which six part suite of sorts) has been recorded once or twice and currently in print is only japanese release by gagaku orchestra called Reigakusha. It's again Japan only release from Sony Japan, not exactly cheap but I'm saving my money for it.

(http://s22.postimg.org/z397xrjtd/box_1_front.jpg)

(http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/pictures/l/11/00/SICC-85.jpg)
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=SICC-85

Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Roberto on August 08, 2013, 03:25:51 AM
Quote from: Drasko on August 08, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
I'm huge Takemitsu fan as well. From that disc my favorite is Rain Spell, it's a piece so characteristic of everything I like about Takemitsu: the colors, the staticness, the japan meets west ...
The November Steps (on Brilliant CD I mentioned) is "japan meets west" also: he integrated two original Japanese instrument to the western orchestra. It is very interesting also because I feel he didn't want to veil the Japanese instruments so he retained their original character because when the orchestra sounds the Japanese instruments don't and vice versa.

Quote from: Drasko on August 08, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
It's again Japan only release from Sony Japan, not exactly cheap but I'm saving my money for it.
I hope you can buy it soon. That 7CD set is impressive but I think the film music of Takemitsu is too early for me.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2013, 05:30:15 AM
The search engine here must be defective ::) Anyways, thanks for the helpful recommendations, guys! :)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 06:32:56 AM
The set of film music looks mighty tempting...

To my surprise, I found out the other day that my Dad loves Takemitsu. He asked me what recordings I owned and I found them for him so he could make copies of them. He said his favorite work was "A String Around Autumn" and I just nodded at him and smiled. That is a truly great work and Imai's performance is superior to Duke's IMHO.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on August 08, 2013, 06:49:48 AM
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2013, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on August 08, 2013, 06:49:48 AM
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

You don't own a performance of A String Around Autumn? Oh dear...
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Drasko on August 09, 2013, 03:54:02 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on August 08, 2013, 06:49:48 AM
I have:

Denon series: the one with Gemeaux (oboe/trombone concerto)

RCA- Stolzman

RCA- String Quartet

Virgin- Knussen

DG- Knussen ('Signals')

ABC (Australian)- guitar ctos., 'Dream/Window', etc.,...

Sony- 'Flows Time'

Sony- guitar ctos.


Every time I think I want to check out some more TT, I listen to some pieces,... and wow,... he reeeally does sound alike in just about ALL his pieces,... Debussy + Messiaen,... so, I hesitate. If I were to, I'd probably go for the DG flute concerto disc, or the other DG re-release with the chamber music (is their a fourth one with 'Pentagonal', or is that on the chamber disc?).

Anyhow, if I need peace and quiet music, it's either Feldman or Toru.

The 'Flows Time' piece on the Sony is a nice 35min. meditation for percussion ensemble and orchestra,... not the place to start, perhaps, but a nice addition.


What's the go-to TT disc? Stolzman? Knussen? The John Williams disc? The DG flute disc? They seem all quite interchangeable, but each has its felicities.

My go-tos Knussen/Virgin and In An Autumn Garden/DG (that's the one solely on Japanese instruments), but Flows Time/Sony, Gallois/flute/DG are both superb (flute is what I think his strongest solo instrument playing on both flute and shakuhachi traditions), Flock Descends/DG has two great pieces but is filled up with some earlier stuff I never got into. Piano music is another area that never really sat with me.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: madaboutmahler on September 23, 2013, 11:12:58 AM
Am currently listening to 'A String around autumn', and it's utterly gorgeous. My first listen to a whole piece of Takemitsu I think.....

http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI

Really is beautiful, so colourful.. :)

Could I have some more top Takemitsu recommendations please? :)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: kyjo on September 23, 2013, 11:37:32 AM
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 23, 2013, 11:12:58 AM
Am currently listening to 'A String around autumn', and it's utterly gorgeous. My first listen to a whole piece of Takemitsu I think.....

http://www.youtube.com/v/Mu1VkhuaeYI

Really is beautiful, so colourful.. :)

Could I have some more top Takemitsu recommendations please? :)

Definitely agree with you about the beauty of that work, Daniel. Some other Takemitsu works I enjoyed (but not quite as much as A string around autumn) include:

A flock descends into the pentagonal garden for orchestra: http://youtu.be/X2JoZ3FR32c
November Steps for orchestra: http://youtu.be/UC_T4_HxTb4
Percussion Concerto From me flows what you call time: http://youtu.be/kWipy3Q6gAI

Happy listening! :)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Pessoa on November 22, 2013, 02:58:51 PM
The Philips record with Ozawa was my first Takemitsu. For years, the Viola Concerto was my favourite, then Eclipse, for biwa and shakuhachi. Then came other orchestral works, chamber music and guitar. I have 5 of his cds. Those pieces named above are still favourite of mine, but, probably as I went deeper into Japanese traditional music, Eclipse is now my favourite. Today I was listening to a mixture of antique pieces for biwa, shakuhachi, koto shamisen, voice and some percussion. Immediately after that I went to Eclipse and felt it as a continuation, a fresh succesfsul mixture of the old instruments that still can be heard in a kabuki play with the western contemporary set and lovely musical output.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:29:16 AM
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
It seems like Brilliant's reissue of two of the Denon recordings is the way to go?

[asin] B000I8OFYG[/asin]
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:29:16 AM
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
I was going to ask this as well. I absolutely love his "Dream/Window". Did you hear that one yet? I posted it in the Feldman thread a few days ago because I thought that it might be appreciated by those who like Feldman. Any Takemitsu fans recommend similar works of his?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:40:25 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
I was going to ask this as well. I absolutely love his "Dream/Window". Did you hear that one yet? I posted it in the Feldman thread a few days ago because I thought that it might be appreciated by those who like Feldman. Any Takemitsu fans recommend similar works of his?

No, this is unfamiliar territory. I enjoy traditional Japanese music, but this is of course a blend of west and east in a modern template (and VERY different). Just listening to snippets and Spotify at the moment. I will check out Dream/Window! Thanks EigenUser!  :)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 08:43:26 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:40:25 AM
No, this is unfamiliar territory. I enjoy traditional Japanese music, but this is of course a blend of west and east in a modern template (and VERY different). Just listening to snippets and Spotify at the moment. I will check out Dream/Window! Thanks EigenUser!  :)
No problem. I described it on the Feldman thread as this:
Quote
It's like he took Debussy's "Jeux" (my favorite Debussy piece, I'll be the outlier :) ), poured it through a strainer to remove any melodic themes, and wrote using what was left.
Then again, that's just what it makes me think of.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on May 07, 2014, 08:43:48 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:29:16 AM
*bump* 

Any further recommendations for gateways to Takemitsu's compositions?
It seems like Brilliant's reissue of two of the Denon recordings is the way to go?

[asin] B000I8OFYG[/asin]

The Brilliant issue looks interesting, not familiar with many of those works
This is a real bargain if you do MP3s
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zHsDiVLhL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518YVbQxmHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Takemitsu was one of the most important postwar composers of guitar music
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51m3SfFT8QL._SP160,160,0,T_.jpg)

This disc features his works for traditional Japanese instruments, the first track is worth the cost of the whole disk
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41oXESW-5AL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on May 07, 2014, 08:43:48 AM

This disc features his works for traditional Japanese instruments, the first track is worth the cost of the whole disk
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41oXESW-5AL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Thanks bwv! I was pondering the Autumn Garden recording. Your recommendation brings me close to the "button"... 8)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on May 07, 2014, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:49:16 AM
Thanks bwv! I was pondering the Autumn Garden recording. Your recommendation brings me close to the "button"... 8)

this one-star Amazon review ahould help get you closer:

QuoteIf you're depressed, stay away from this stuff. The "music" delves right to the core and irritates your marrow with its long sinuous lines of decadent atonality. This "music" would serve well as the soundtrack for the Jonestown Massacre or Heaven's Gate Cult as they commit their final act of mass suicide. It is unnerving & unsettling. It's a score that could only have been composed for wristcutters. Sorry, but that's how it touches me.

what a great endorsement (even if misinformed)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:54:44 AM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on May 07, 2014, 08:52:36 AM
this one-star Amazon review ahould help get you closer:

what a great endorsement (even if misinformed)

Ha ha! Well, it is the tonality that makes it "attractive" in the first place, but I can see how it can be a deterrent for some listeners. 
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 08:58:27 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:54:44 AM
Ha ha! Well, it is the tonality that makes it "attractive" in the first place, but I can see how it can be a deterrent for some listeners.
Hmmm... Takemitsu isn't difficult at all to listen to. Then again, we don't know what the reviewer's listening habits are.

Listening to "Spirit Garden" now. Recommended.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRiF8MjHp_I
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Ken B on May 07, 2014, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 08:54:44 AM
Ha ha! Well, it is the tonality that makes it "attractive" in the first place, but I can see how it can be a deterrent for some listeners.
Moonfish! Watch out!
Here is a recording I found of Nate singing the praises of Takemitsu. Watch, and be afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: Ken B on May 07, 2014, 09:29:30 AM
Moonfish! Watch out!
Here is a recording I found of Nate singing the praises of Takemitsu. Watch, and be afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4)

Isn't that from one of GMG's hazing rituals...?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 03:48:50 PM
Quote from: Ken B on May 07, 2014, 09:29:30 AM
Moonfish! Watch out!
Here is a recording I found of Nate singing the praises of Takemitsu. Watch, and be afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77umP7IRxD4)
Oh dear, I was hoping that this wouldn't be revealed to the public :-[.

Oh well, I can just tell people that it's James singing the praises of KS!
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Ken B on May 07, 2014, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 03:48:50 PM
Oh dear, I was hoping that this wouldn't be revealed to the public :-[.

Oh well, I can just tell people that it's James singing the praises of KS!

No, that one's here http://youtu.be/rKZ5bP1wsB0 (http://youtu.be/rKZ5bP1wsB0)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on August 10, 2015, 04:36:47 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 10, 2015, 01:42:12 PM
Just bought:

(http://cf-images.emusic.com/music/images/album/154/150/15415015/600x600.jpg) (http://cf-images.emusic.com/music/images/album/157/712/15771235/600x600.jpg)

(http://cf-images.emusic.com/music/images/album/154/134/15413489/600x600.jpg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/171/MI0000171903.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

And this 7-CD set of film music:

(http://otaku.com/files/images/fullsize/75087B.JPG)

And one more...

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.555859.jpg)

Does anyone own any of these recordings? I'm sure not many here own the box of film music however.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: CRCulver on August 11, 2015, 02:02:58 AM
Most of those Denon discs were reissued in a cheap Brilliant Classics box set (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I8OFYG?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B000I8OFYG&linkCode=xm2&tag=3636363-20) some years back, though unfortunately not all of the pieces. (At the time I was interested, those Denon discs were rather expensive imports, so I just ended up buying the Brilliant Classics box and ripping the missing pieces from the Denon discs at the library.)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: San Antone on October 08, 2015, 05:04:09 AM
Toru Takemitsu : born today in 1930

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cropped-mk2.png)

He was by far the most celebrated of Japanese composers, although his position in the firmament of modern music was not exactly dominant; some Western commentators condescendingly described him as an artist of a decorative type, a purveyor of atmospheric wisps of sound.  Critics have underestimated Takemitsu because of the unstinting sensuousness of his music. It is rich in opulent chords, luminous textures, exotic tones that almost brush the skin, hazy melodies that move like figures in mist. The titles give a sense of the sound: "Twill by Twilight," "Toward the Sea," "How Slow the Wind." Yet the picture-book atmosphere is periodically disrupted by harsh timbres, rumblings of dissonance, engulfing masses of tone. Loveliness vanishes into darkness before it can be fully apprehended, like the song that Takemitsu heard inside the mountain. (Alex Ross, The New Yorker)

More info and audio clip here. (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/toru-takemitsu-born-today-in-1930/)
Title: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:41:40 AM
I might have Posted this before, but, please, help me with my Takemitsu problem. I have seven discs and I can barely tell them apart, lol, what am I to do? Here they are (probably again):

'Cantos'- Stoltzman/RCA

'Orchestral Works' - Nexus/SONY ('From Me Flows...')

Knussen/Virgin chamber disc

Williams/SONY guitar disc

DENON 'Gemeaux', 'Dream/Window', 'Spirit Garden'

ABC Classics- Melbourne SO/Iwaki- various pieces

DG 'Quotation of Dream'



I'm looking at over 600 entries on Amazon. It's dizzying...

Maybe I keep thinking Debussy? I just can't seem to relax to TT, which seems to be the whole point? I can never tell one piece from the next, unless there's a concertante instrument in the mix, and even then it still "sounds" the same.

Ugh.

I've got 'em all sitting here. 'How Slow the Wind' on right now (DG).




What am I missing?
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: Mahlerian on October 20, 2016, 08:51:01 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:41:40 AMI'm looking at over 600 entries on Amazon. It's dizzying...

Maybe I keep thinking Debussy? I just can't seem to relax to TT, which seems to be the whole point? I can never tell one piece from the next, unless there's a concertante instrument in the mix, and even then it still "sounds" the same.

Ugh.

What am I missing?

Although Takemitsu's music does have a meditative bent, it's not meant to be "relaxing" in the sense of easy listening or anything.  The style is related to both Debussy and Messiaen, to be sure, but neither of them truly wanted to write "relaxing" music in that sense either.  His music has a dream-like logic where ideas appear and reappear as echoes and subtly varied reprises.  The lack of pulse and the slow tempo are pretty consistent throughout his oeuvre, but there's a good deal of variety within the works, even though the surfaces may sound similar.  His earlier music, also, tends to sound closer to the avant-garde than his later music:

Stanza II, for Harp and Tape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTFp_LvL8Bc
Asterism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TAk1qrBgI
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on October 20, 2016, 08:53:33 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:41:40 AM
I might have Posted this before, but, please, help me with my Takemitsu problem. I have seven discs and I can barely tell them apart, lol, what am I to do?

'
That's my take as well: it's like he wrote the same piece of music over and over again.
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:57:59 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on October 20, 2016, 08:51:01 AM
Although Takemitsu's music does have a meditative bent, it's not meant to be "relaxing" in the sense of easy listening or anything.  His music has a dream-like logic where ideas appear and reappear as echoes and subtly varied reprises.  The lack of pulse and the slow tempo are pretty consistent throughout his oeuvre, but there's a good deal of variety within the works, even though the surfaces may sound similar.  His earlier music, also, tends to sound closer to the avant-garde than his later music:

Stanza II, for Harp and Tape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTFp_LvL8Bc
Asterism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TAk1qrBgI

No, I get that... "not relaxing" and "earlier music more avant"... but I'm curious if there's anything that's out of the ordinary (whatever that means)...

maybe I'm not actually looking... but, TT has always been a problem, and here I sit with seven packed full CDs with no discernible "go to". Perhaps it's the 'From Me Flows...', or the guitar concertos... but then the violin concertos sound just the same... and the oboe concerto... and... and...


I checked out that 'Green' and 'Arc' recording of his more avant phase but wasn't really moved...

Wondering about the Ozawa/Philips disc with the Viola Concerto...




Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on October 20, 2016, 08:53:33 AM
That's my take as well: it's like he wrote the same piece of music over and over again.

mmmm... ennui in sound...
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: Mahlerian on October 20, 2016, 09:05:12 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:57:59 AM
No, I get that... "not relaxing" and "earlier music more avant"... but I'm curious if there's anything that's out of the ordinary (whatever that means)...

maybe I'm not actually looking... but, TT has always been a problem, and here I sit with seven packed full CDs with no discernible "go to". Perhaps it's the 'From Me Flows...', or the guitar concertos... but then the violin concertos sound just the same... and the oboe concerto... and... and...


I checked out that 'Green' and 'Arc' recording of his more avant phase but wasn't really moved...

Wondering about the Ozawa/Philips disc with the Viola Concerto...

Well, I certainly consider him an exceptional composer, and beyond all doubt the finest Japan has yet produced (Hosokawa has written some fine works, though).

To me, it's the sense of color, of poetry, the subtle shadings of harmony and perspective throughout a work that attract me to his music.  The form seems to be in a perpetual process of creating and recreating itself, and the stillnesses and silences become events in themselves.
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: Drasko on October 20, 2016, 09:37:20 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 20, 2016, 08:57:59 AM
... but I'm curious if there's anything that's out of the ordinary (whatever that means)...

[asin]B000066I9B[/asin]

which is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkdTXW2G4Sc

or complete In an Autumn Garden:

(http://st.cdjapan.co.jp/pictures/l/11/00/SICC-85.jpg)

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/SICC-85

Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: nathanb on October 20, 2016, 06:46:48 PM
Quote from: Mahlerian on October 20, 2016, 09:05:12 AM
Well, I certainly consider him an exceptional composer, and beyond all doubt the finest Japan has yet produced (Hosokawa has written some fine works, though).

I will admit that, although I consider Takemitsu to be a brilliant composer, I wonder if Ichiyanagi could rise to a similar position if his recorded oeuvre was the same size.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: CRCulver on October 20, 2016, 07:51:08 PM
While I would agree with the criticism that Takemitsu "wrote the same work over and over again", I would consider that true only for his music from the last 20 years of his life. And even for that period, it's easy to hear the difference between the works that explore the S-E-A motif in various ways and those that don't feature that motif at all.

But for the 1960s and 1970s, Takemitsu was working in several different areas: some works are aleatoric, some are overtly serialist in a vaguely Boulezian way, some deal with Japanese music in a direct way, and some primarily follow the model of Debussy or Messiaen.

Peter Burt's book (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521026954?ie=UTF8&tag=3636363-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=0521026954) on Takemitsu's oeuvre is worth reading. He breaks Takemitsu's career down into different periods.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on October 20, 2016, 08:06:21 PM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on October 20, 2016, 06:54:06 PM
I admit I haven't been able to "get into" Takemitsu either.

Despite this, I've thoroughly enjoyed several of his works, and think his approach to Japanese influenced harmony is wonderful.
What do you think would excite a modernist like me?  :)

Looking outside his classical oeuvre, I'd highly suggest checking out his film score Ran. The connections between this work and Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde are quite fascinating.
Title: Re: MY TAKEMITSU PROBLEM
Post by: snyprrr on October 21, 2016, 05:26:03 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on October 20, 2016, 09:05:12 AM
Well, I certainly consider him an exceptional composer, and beyond all doubt the finest Japan has yet produced (Hosokawa has written some fine works, though).

To me, it's the sense of color, of poetry, the subtle shadings of harmony and perspective throughout a work that attract me to his music.  The form seems to be in a perpetual process of creating and recreating itself, and the stillnesses and silences become events in themselves.

So, I've limited myself to one piece, and it just happened to be 'How Slow the Wind' (1991). The first time it just passed by. Now I'm on my third, and I really am hearing it moment by moment. It sounds like Feldman+Messiaen. I think that's why so much TT sounds this way- no one criticizes Feldman for his pieces sounding the same.

TT has that rapturous quality, but neverNeverNEVER - or, always seems to cut off the rapture right when it wants to spill over into Szymanowski territory. He's very trimmed, clipped, like a Japanese garden. No over perfuming, but, always perfumed.

So, now, if this one piece was all I knew by TT, well, yea, I'd go on an MI styled buy-a-thon. But this time we're going to take our time.



WHY DON'T WE ALL LISTEN TO "How Slow the Wind'? Listen to it a couple of times if you have to, but try to see what makes this work special or different. Or not. As I said, taken by itself, as I'm pretending I've never heard TT before, I find it very very cool. Who IS this cat?, I would ask myself.


anyhow


TT's Works List of "Concert Music" isn't that vast, and, with my 7 CDs I have a very good representation of many of his best eras


(whoops, 10  hours later).... it's morning now, will have to finish later
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 21, 2016, 03:28:45 PM
Quotation of Dream (1991)

Another work from the DG disc. This is a 2 Piano Concerto, so there is measurable difference between this and 'How Slow the Wind'. I hear a certain conch gong sound in both pieces; otherwise, this piece sounds more like Messiaen proper. One does notice that TT does maintain a thoroughly Modern sound no matter what, even if it is usually consonant.

Just by listening closely to these two works, on a disc I've had for decades, I realize I haven't really heard them at all. If you told me 'How Slow the Wind' was a "departure for Ligeti in 1972" I would be most impressed. It just sounds Moderne.

It does take some time to get to know these pieces, maybe that's the point?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: timh1 on October 22, 2016, 05:11:05 AM
There is a Phd thesis which includes an analysis of Takemitsu "How Slow the Wind". Starts on page 186.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/2636/1/Mark's_PhD_final.pdf
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 22, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Quote from: timh1 on October 22, 2016, 05:11:05 AM
There is a Phd thesis which includes an analysis of Takemitsu "How Slow the Wind". Starts on page 186.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/2636/1/Mark's_PhD_final.pdf

:o I've got a cold, I can't read!! I tried, wow. :P
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 22, 2016, 10:16:06 PM
Tree Line

This is the third TT piece I've been rotating, and I might be liking the most at the moment. It's at least as good as 'How Slow the Wind', doesn't "sound just like Messiaen", and has a very arboreal, dark cast, with, I think, a koto making nicely pungent pricks here and there. TT's effect of Tone Painting is very strong here. There are some nicely bent notes- TT does have Feldman from the late 70s, but, not quickly- one thing after another, but slower?- and yes, the Cinematic flair is ever there.

Far Call. Coming, Far! (1980) Violin Concerto (No.1)

This is one of the first works in TT's new 80s sound that we know so well. I found this to be the least interesting of what I've heard hear now. That said, the violin line is great without being Hollywood. The orchestra didn't seem as interesting (well, usually in concertos, not). I do want to come back to it.- In a way it reminds me of the blandness of the string quartet on that RCA disc. It has a very "calligraphy" phrasing... it's late, I'm rambling...


Vers, l'arc-en-ciel, Palma (1984) Concerto (No.2) for guitar and oboe d'amore

Just to speed up the process a bit, I played this during a nap. This is the 2nd work written for John Williams, and the two are supposed to make a pair. So, for some reason, this one sounded more Middle Eastern to me, maybe because of the oboe- of course, there is nothing overt, - it must just be the oboe and guitar combination gives an al fresco relief from the very plush and silk road orchestra. Maybe it doesn't sound so much different, I'll have to check again later. For some reason it made me think of the Rush song, 'Passage to Bangkok'!




SO FAR:

'How Slow the Wind'- as a stand alone, a great piece
'Quotation of Dream'- "sounds like Messiaen"- but I like it
'Tree Line'- very evocative tone painting
'Vers...'- slightly standard TT, but with a certain extra plushness
Far Calls. Coming, Far!- standard, bland, calligraphy violin phrases


Next will be 'Dream/Window' (1983). I noticed here an obsessive repeating of a motif...
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 25, 2016, 06:53:31 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 22, 2016, 10:16:06 PM
Tree Line

This is the third TT piece I've been rotating, and I might be liking the most at the moment. It's at least as good as 'How Slow the Wind', doesn't "sound just like Messiaen", and has a very arboreal, dark cast, with, I think, a koto making nicely pungent pricks here and there. TT's effect of Tone Painting is very strong here. There are some nicely bent notes- TT does have Feldman from the late 70s, but, not quickly- one thing after another, but slower?- and yes, the Cinematic flair is ever there.

Far Call. Coming, Far! (1980) Violin Concerto (No.1)

This is one of the first works in TT's new 80s sound that we know so well. I found this to be the least interesting of what I've heard hear now. That said, the violin line is great without being Hollywood. The orchestra didn't seem as interesting (well, usually in concertos, not). I do want to come back to it.- In a way it reminds me of the blandness of the string quartet on that RCA disc. It has a very "calligraphy" phrasing... it's late, I'm rambling...


Vers, l'arc-en-ciel, Palma (1984) Concerto (No.2) for guitar and oboe d'amore

Just to speed up the process a bit, I played this during a nap. This is the 2nd work written for John Williams, and the two are supposed to make a pair. So, for some reason, this one sounded more Middle Eastern to me, maybe because of the oboe- of course, there is nothing overt, - it must just be the oboe and guitar combination gives an al fresco relief from the very plush and silk road orchestra. Maybe it doesn't sound so much different, I'll have to check again later. For some reason it made me think of the Rush song, 'Passage to Bangkok'!




SO FAR:

'How Slow the Wind'- as a stand alone, a great piece
'Quotation of Dream'- "sounds like Messiaen"- but I like it
'Tree Line'- very evocative tone painting
'Vers...'- slightly standard TT, but with a certain extra plushness
Far Calls. Coming, Far!- standard, bland, calligraphy violin phrases


Next will be 'Dream/Window' (1983). I noticed here an obsessive repeating of a motif...

Dream/Window
Spirit Garden
Twill by Twilight

Dreamtime

These three works work the stereotypical TT formula all the way down. I found precious little to differentiate them.  I can't really report anything here yet. mmmm :(


Nostalghia Violin Concerto (No.2)

On the other hand, 'Nostalghia, dedicated to Tarkovsky, is one of TT's most memorable plunges in the pool. It has all the right moves and sounds ravishingly in repose. I have the ABC/Iwaki recording, which clocks in at 11 minutes. Bashmet(?) clocks in at 16, and that is just too long. In general, Iwaki's recital plays TT without a lot of EXTRA syrup (since the music itself is quite sugery to begin with), so I am recommending it above others (along with the DG/Knussen disc).

'Nostalghia' seems to be the ubiquitous TT piece at the moment, but watch out for those 14 minute versions. The 11 minute one has great repose, so, stretching it out is quite unnecessary.




btw- in direct comparisons, the DG/Knussen disc outdoes any rivals. This recital is very special and should probably be one's first encounter with TT. Knussen's other recital, on Virgin, is also top-notch.




I find a lot in common with late Xenakis in TT- these single movement pieces that sound similar...
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on October 25, 2016, 07:36:32 AM
Nostalghia is certainly a fine work, snyprrr, but, unlike you, I don't mind the longer versions of it. My favorite performance is the Daniel Hope recording on Nimbus (w/ Boughton and the English Symphony Orchestra).
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 25, 2016, 06:18:47 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 25, 2016, 07:36:32 AM
Nostalghia is certainly a fine work, snyprrr, but, unlike you, I don't mind the longer versions of it. My favorite performance is the Daniel Hope recording on Nimbus (w/ Boughton and the English Symphony Orchestra).

That's the one I'd be looking into.

Any other TT you like? Knussen's discs (DG, Virgin) seem to be the best so far, absolutely pristine presentations with all the best pieces. The V
irgin, particularly, has the 'misterioso factor' set to 10 throughout.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mahlerian on October 25, 2016, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 25, 2016, 06:18:47 PM
That's the one I'd be looking into.

Any other TT you like? Knussen's discs (DG, Virgin) seem to be the best so far, absolutely pristine presentations with all the best pieces. The V
irgin, particularly, has the 'misterioso factor' set to 10 throughout.

My recommendation, based on what you already have:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61l0xByzv6L._SX425_.jpg)

The only fault I have with this disc is the inclusion of both versions of Eucalypts right next to each other, one being the exact same but with just the soloists.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: violadude on October 26, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
I don't have too much experience with Takemitsu. What I have in my collection is a random hodgepodge of various orchestral and chamber works from these three CDs


https://www.amazon.com/Takemitsu-Pacific-Symphony-Orchestra-Clair/dp/B00138F6LQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1477470869&sr=1-2&keywords=Takemitsu
https://www.amazon.com/Takemitsu-Boston-Symphony-Orchestra-Seiji/dp/B000V6Q980/ref=sr_1_25?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1477471635&sr=1-25&keywords=Takemitsu
https://www.amazon.com/Takemitsu-Quotation-Signals-Twilight-Archipelago/dp/B000V6MQTQ/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1477470941&sr=1-13&keywords=Takemitsu


The sheer aural beauty that Takemitsu creates with each work is just magical. The sensitivity to subtle changes in harmony or timbre is especially rewarding to perceptive listeners. The orchestral pieces I've listened to by this composer always have an air of other-worldliness to me, maybe like one is peeking directly into a dream (one of his pieces IS called Quotation of a Dream, after all). I also very much enjoy the slow pace at which these pieces reveal themselves.

I haven't paid as much attention to the chamber works as I have the orchestral works. From what I've heard they seem to take much inspiration from Boulez's Marteau Sans Maitre, not surprising considering the latter's far-reaching influence at the time Takemitsu was writing. I look forward to exploring them and other Takemitsu pieces more.

I think my favorite piece of his at the moment is A Flock Descends into the Pentagonal Garden or Quatrain.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on October 26, 2016, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 25, 2016, 06:18:47 PM
That's the one I'd be looking into.

Any other TT you like? Knussen's discs (DG, Virgin) seem to be the best so far, absolutely pristine presentations with all the best pieces. The V
irgin, particularly, has the 'misterioso factor' set to 10 throughout.

A few of my favorite Takemitsu recordings:

(A bit hard to see but this is the soundtrack to the film Ran) -
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FbG9rWPXqnc/SiLs8h6Km3I/AAAAAAAARxo/cxqFUPuzZDo/s320/folder2.jpg)

The redundancy in this recording can easily be overlooked as the music is just so gorgeous -
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/030/MI0001030035.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/998/MI0000998814.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Al1TPBKycU/VrEnHQA-vZI/AAAAAAAAEQs/Cp7uoUrPA90/s1600/Toru%2BTakemitsu.png)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 27, 2016, 07:35:11 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 26, 2016, 07:45:10 AM
A few of my favorite Takemitsu recordings:

(A bit hard to see but this is the soundtrack to the film Ran) -
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FbG9rWPXqnc/SiLs8h6Km3I/AAAAAAAARxo/cxqFUPuzZDo/s320/folder2.jpg)

The redundancy in this recording can easily be overlooked as the music is just so gorgeous -
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/030/MI0001030035.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/998/MI0000998814.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Al1TPBKycU/VrEnHQA-vZI/AAAAAAAAEQs/Cp7uoUrPA90/s1600/Toru%2BTakemitsu.png)

I found 'I Hear the Water Dreaming'  somewhat weak (and the redundancy here does get on my nerves- why not have 'Then I Knew 'Twas Wind'??... anyhow) ... I haven't been taken so much with his Concertos; it seems he has reserved his most lush and faux-Hollywood for them... I was also a bit underwhelmed by the main guitar concerto.

That said, 'Gemeaux', a concerto for oboe and trombone (1971-1986) on the Denon disc, is maybe the single greatest piece I've heard by him. It has both his "bracing" style and his "lush" style, to great effect. There are some Xenakis type moments here as well. It is one of his longer pieces- MI??- you might like it...

I still have 'riverrun' (piano concerto) and 'From Me Flows..." (percussion concerto) to go...




As far as those other DG discs with the older chamber material- well, one could almost reserve them for a different Composer! I have made a hard break with TT at around 1976, leaving all the earlier stuff for another go round. (otherwise I actually might just be buyBuyBUYing more than I can handle this month)...


I've had all these TT discs for like decades and I didn't even know there was something beyond the remembered lush Mdessiaen-isms. And, I hear so much Messiaen, Xenakis, and

mmm...


Of course, much of his output is Film Music and such, so, the hint of Hollywood is by all rights there- his "Classical" output is actually kind of small and manageable- I have almost all his stuff after 'A Flock Descends...' and didn't even know it.


Oh,- I was also quite unimpressed with the clarinet concerto 'Fantasma/Cantos' (Stoltzman/RCA), which reminded me of "soft" LateXenakis,... again with the concertos... I mean, maybe it's not the thing to be "impressed"- they just ARE... but, I do still feel like there are some longeurs in TT, just like in Messiaen, but, hey, when you're dealing with Eternity, I guess there will be some of that.


So, we'll finish up with 'riverrun' and 'From Me...' today. I'm so glad I got a research project done without spending monies, yaaay!! See, you CAN have too music around, as long as you listen to it eventually (and take a break from the constant buuuuying).


Again, the Virgin disc is my fav right now, followed by 'Quotation'.

Quote from: violadude on October 26, 2016, 12:46:23 AM
I think my favorite piece of his at the moment is A Flock Descends into the Pentagonal Garden or Quatrain.

They fall right at the end of his "bracing" style, right before he converted to lushness. 'A Flock...' is certainly one of those classic 70s avant pieces. I will warn anyone against the Alsop/Naxos version, which, from my brief listen, seems to suck all the "bracing" out. 14.5 minutes versus a more normal 11 minutes.......



Takemitsu, - pretty cool, man!! ;)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on October 27, 2016, 07:40:01 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 27, 2016, 07:35:11 AM
I found 'I Hear the Water Dreaming'  somewhat weak (and the redundancy here does get on my nerves- why not have 'Then I Knew 'Twas Wind'??... anyhow) ... I haven't been taken so much with his Concertos; it seems he has reserved his most lush and faux-Hollywood for them... I was also a bit underwhelmed by the main guitar concerto.

That said, 'Gemeaux', a concerto for oboe and trombone (1971-1986) on the Denon disc, is maybe the single greatest piece I've heard by him. It has both his "bracing" style and his "lush" style, to great effect. There are some Xenakis type moments here as well. It is one of his longer pieces- MI??- you might like it...

I still have 'riverrun' (piano concerto) and 'From Me Flows..." (percussion concerto) to go...




As far as those other DG discs with the older chamber material- well, one could almost reserve them for a different Composer! I have made a hard break with TT at around 1976, leaving all the earlier stuff for another go round. (otherwise I actually might just be buyBuyBUYing more than I can handle this month)...


I've had all these TT discs for like decades and I didn't even know there was something beyond the remembered lush Mdessiaen-isms. And, I hear so much Messiaen, Xenakis, and

mmm...


Of course, much of his output is Film Music and such, so, the hint of Hollywood is by all rights there- his "Classical" output is actually kind of small and manageable- I have almost all his stuff after 'A Flock Descends...' and didn't even know it.


Oh,- I was also quite unimpressed with the clarinet concerto 'Fantasma/Cantos' (Stoltzman/RCA), which reminded me of "soft" LateXenakis,... again with the concertos... I mean, maybe it's not the thing to be "impressed"- they just ARE... but, I do still feel like there are some longeurs in TT, just like in Messiaen, but, hey, when you're dealing with Eternity, I guess there will be some of that.


So, we'll finish up with 'riverrun' and 'From Me...' today. I'm so glad I got a research project done without spending monies, yaaay!! See, you CAN have too music around, as long as you listen to it eventually (and take a break from the constant buuuuying).


Again, the Virgin disc is my fav right now, followed by 'Quotation'.

They fall right at the end of his "bracing" style, right before he converted to lushness. 'A Flock...' is certainly one of those classic 70s avant pieces. I will warn anyone against the Alsop/Naxos version, which, from my brief listen, seems to suck all the "bracing" out. 14.5 minutes versus a more normal 11 minutes.......



Takemitsu, - pretty cool, man!! ;)

Gemeaux is a pretty good work, but not one of my favorites and I heartily disagree with you about your opinions regarding I Hear The Water Dreaming. Nothing weak at all about this work as the ebb and flow of the work is enough to carry one away to another place and time. I generally like most of Takemitsu's concerti with my favorite being A String Around Autumn.
Title: Re: Takemitsu PIANO MUSIC
Post by: snyprrr on October 27, 2016, 07:44:44 AM
I didn't even know I had 'Rain Tree Sketch I + II' and the 'Les Yeux Clos II' by Serkin. Wow, the former were some of my fav TT right off the bat- he certainly turned any forces into an Orchestral Work. I hear the Satie.

There's a lot of different recitals, any favs? Obviously, recording quality is at a premium in these works, along with a very specific touch. Curious about the BIS, Philips, and others...
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mahlerian on October 27, 2016, 07:45:01 AM
I don't really hear Takemitsu's music before the mid-70s and Takemitsu's music after the mid-70s to be particularly different at all.  Sure the edges were softened a bit, but the musical personality is really the same underneath.

Also, he really didn't have all that much contact with Hollywood (only scored one Hollywood film in his entire career), and his film music is of a distinct character from his concert works.  I think it would be difficult if not impossible to find a Hollywood film score that sounds like Takemitsu's concert music in more than a few surface elements, just as resemblances between film scores and late romantic symphonies are primarily about the surface rather than the content.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on October 29, 2016, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2016, 07:40:01 AM
I generally like most of Takemitsu's concerti with my favorite being A String Around Autumn.

thaaat's what I was fishing for, I agree

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 27, 2016, 07:45:01 AM
I don't really hear Takemitsu's music before the mid-70s and Takemitsu's music after the mid-70s to be particularly different at all.  Sure the edges were softened a bit, but the musical personality is really the same underneath.

Also, he really didn't have all that much contact with Hollywood (only scored one Hollywood film in his entire career), and his film music is of a distinct character from his concert works.  I think it would be difficult if not impossible to find a Hollywood film score that sounds like Takemitsu's concert music in more than a few surface elements, just as resemblances between film scores and late romantic symphonies are primarily about the surface rather than the content.

I knew my "Hollywood" wouldn't go unchecked. I meant to say what you said...

(Karl, see how reasonable I am?) :-*
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence FANTASMA/ CANTOS
Post by: snyprrr on October 30, 2016, 10:00:18 AM
Fantasma/Cantos (1991) Clarinet Concerto
Far Calls. Coming, Far! (1981) Violin Concerto (No.1)

I am wrapping up my TT Fest by going over some of the items I had a problem with (the problem being I found them uninteresting). One comes from the beginning of the "Sea of Tonality" phase, and one from a decade on.

Maybe it's the RCA recording of the clarinet work that makes it sound so "black" to me (maybe the color of the CD inserts has done this to me?). I do hear a lot of very subtle things going on, but it sounds like there is just the slightest hint of a mid-range recording that has no upper brilliance to it, which seems to be needed for this music. In a way, the work reminds me of the trudging quality of Late Xenakis, almost amorphous. Towards the end, @14mins., I heard just the briefest snippet of a "beautiful melody" that just comes and goes; the rest is - I don't know how to describe TT's  elusive melodic writing here, it reminds me of Goeyvaarts and Stockhausen type '80s melodies. The Goeyvaarts String Quartets have the same fragmented melody, the melodies themselves being somewhat "non human" in the hummability, as if they are from an alien culture (though, not shocking- more "boring" and nondescript, random...). I do like TT's take a bit more than the gray-European style.

TT's violin concerto, coming ten years earlier, does seem a little clearer. It clearly sounds like calligraphy writing from the violin, over washes of (pretty limited) orchestral colour. On the Knussen/DG disc, there are a lot more fun sounds in TT's orchestrations (such as "How Slow the Wind' and 'Archipeligo S.'). Here we seem to be limited to strings and winds.


I seem to have this weakness with pieces that don't grab me right away. I do try hard to get to what it is I don't like, and most of the time I come around, as is the case here. Sometimes I just prefer to play music I'm not that crazy about, and TT does compel me even when I'm not particularly interested.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence CHAMBER MUSIC 1975-1995
Post by: snyprrr on October 30, 2016, 07:21:48 PM
Chamber Music 1975-1995

Just quickly,everything on those DG discs comes from before 1975, with the last piece being the brass work 'Garden Rain' (the title of one of the discs). Then he writes the 'Folios' for guitar, and then the song arrangements, and the Satie arrangement.

When he resumes with Chamber Music, he writes three pieces with a very new openness in his work, the 'Sea of Tonality': Bryce (1976), Waves (1976), and Waterways (1977-78). Here, we still have some of the rigidness of the earlier TT, but with the supple water themes paving a more naturalistic path. And the instrumentation of each piece is very unique, and,... dare I say it, "70s".

There is also the 'QFTEOT' Quartet (Messiaen reference) 'Quatrain II' (1977), which, to me, inhabits more the earlier TT idiom.


"The New Style Begins"

Then we have the first true work of his new style for Chamber Music, the String Quartet A Way A Lone (1980; also for String Orchestra). Here, the "calligraphy" style is obvious: there are ever melodic contours, but, so very hard to make "human, hummable " sense of them- they do seem more like brush strokes.

This piece brings up an issue I have with TT's works with strings, like this: I hear such precious little interest- is it the Tokyo SQ recording, or the music? There is no instrumental variety in the string tone, a la Feldman. The phrases are such that the whole piece begins to sound amorphous. And... then it ends. Thankfully, at @11mins., TT's exercise in "oblivion" is much more palatable than some of his colleagues' longer works in the same, "80s" vein.

'Entre-Temps' (1983), for oboe and SQ, seems very blandly Feldmanesque. I was not particularly moved. As far as the String Quartet goes, there are two late arrangements, but that's it here, except for the EXCELLENT Rocking Mirror Daybreak (1983) for 2 Violins, which sounds exactly like you wish TT sounded like from your first listen.


Continuing with the strings, we have pieces for a three strings, with piano:

From Far beyond Chrysanthemums and November Fog (1983) for vln/pf
Orion (1984) for vnc/pf
A Bird Came down the Walk (1994) for vla/pf

I really enjoyed the first two, the latter only 5mins. They exhibited the "good" old TT sound, fully mature, quicksilver in the former, cosmic gliss and boreales in the second. The viola piece sounded extremely typical of the 'Sea of Tonality' TT, like the SQ.

So, basically, I seem to hold the two violin based pieces in the highest esteem, with the cello work. Had the viola work been written in the 80s, maybe it too work be of the same caliber.

(whoops- forgot:)

Between Tides (1993) Piano Trio*****

I think I heard the ASV recording on YT, and, though I heard some interesting things in the music, I wasn't happy with the sound. Is there a version out there you like- or, is the piece so so in terms of TT?


PIAMO MUSIC

I was surprised that, for the main part, his Piano Music here is limited to the two 'Rain Tree Sketches' and the two 'Les Yeux Clos' pieces, all of which I found to be very high quality, perhaps styled after Satie?

I haven't yet heard the 'Litany', which is simply a n arrangement of a 50s piece, or the Beatles' arrangement of 'Golden Slumbers'.

And I don't think there's a recording of Rain Dreaming (1986)for harpsichord. If anyone could point me in that direction, I thank you now.


GUITAR MUSIC

For some reason, this seems to have become his main muse towards the end. I have always been quite lukewarm towards all his later guitar music, but I've only heard the Williams disc, and 'All in Twilight' (sure, it's nice).

The Last Waltz
A Boy Named Hiroshima (2 guitars)
Towards the Sea (flute/gtr)
All in Twilight
A Piece for Guitar
Equinox
In the Woods

What's your opinion here, any Masterpieces?


THE REST


flute:

Itinerant
Air


trumpet

Paths (in memory of Lutoslawski)




Rain Tree (3 percussionists)
Rain Spell (five players)
Cross Hatch (2 keyboards)

I think the first two are high high points- love those two. Haven't heard the third




And Then I Knew 'Twas Wind (1993) fl/vla/hrp

the Debussy sequel.... what's not to like?





AND THAT'S IT, FOLKS- what stands out for you? For me, it's:

Waterways
Rain Tree
Rain Spell
And Then I Knew 'Twas Wind
From Far beyond...
Rocking Mirror Daybreak
Orion

All in Twilight
Towards the Sea
??



The main work I don't care for is the String Quartet proper.


DONE.
FINITO.
KAPUT.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mahlerian on October 31, 2016, 08:32:31 AM
My recording of Rain Dreaming comes from a set of Takemitsu's complete chamber works that's now, unfortunately, out of print.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31MTH4EBJDL.jpg)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence GUITAR WORKS
Post by: snyprrr on November 04, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Classical Guitar tones are like wallpaper to me,- it almost doesn't much matter what it is. I'm not so sure CG has worked so well for the Ultra Avant Guarde, but, it seems most Composers have written some fairly good and normal sounding modernistic works.

Takemitsu has a little hidden wealth of writing, and it's quite individual and evocative. I'm just going from memory here, so, I may miss something.

I'm listening to the 'Folios' right now- and I'm going to skip the '12 Songs' (SONY/Williams). 'Folios' sound fairly typical of mid-modernist, mid-level guitar, nothing offensive, nicely presented. Both of these works were written during a time of transition from his more angular spikiness to the more lush sonorities of his 80s'90s work.

Towards the Sea (Guitar and flute)

Again, I'd rather hear this on an all-guitar/flute recital than a TT recital, but, yea, it's nice enough- I just don't want to hear it NOW, lol...

All in Twilight

Famously written for Bream, these are nice "modern guitar pieces" that work great on recitals featuring Britten, Walton, Lutoslawski, Brouwer,... whatever... nothing earth shattering imo

Bad Boy (2 guitars)
A Boy Named Hiroshima (2 guitars)

The former is from the early 60s, and comes from a soundtrack, I believe. Nice, nothing particular... however, the latter I found to be instantly lovable, a spooky, almost Oldfield/exorcist type of nice minor key picking. THIS was my instant fav.

Equinox (1993?)
In the Woods (1995?)

The former has a lot going for it in terms of Total Artistry- it may be his most probing piece for the guitar- perhaps Ferneyhough at 1/16th speed?- I'd like to see it on more 'various' recitals.

The latter has a lot of the same great guitar writing (he probably would have continued to become better and better at writing for it), but in a more pastoral (though not tonic) mode.


Of course there are tons of live YT vids of all these works........



Maybe it's he wants you to be reminded of Django R.??? It's all very Frenchy Impresssn Jazzy...*********
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: nodogen on June 19, 2017, 05:00:18 AM
I'm in the Takemitsu Tea House. My sole CD, A Flock Descends (Naxos) is living in my player whilst I await the delivery of more...

Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on June 19, 2017, 05:47:43 AM
Quote from: nodogen on June 19, 2017, 05:00:18 AM
I'm in the Takemitsu Tea House. My sole CD, A Flock Descends (Naxos) is living in my player whilst I await the delivery of more...


This is good ;D make sure to get his guitar music too!
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: North Star on June 19, 2017, 06:33:04 AM
Quote from: jessop on June 19, 2017, 05:47:43 AM
This is good ;D make sure to get his guitar music too!
Yes!
[asin]B00IO56T76[/asin]
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: nodogen on June 19, 2017, 06:37:23 AM
Yes, I shall be getting both his guitar and solo piano music I think. 😃
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Robert101 on June 19, 2017, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: North Star on June 19, 2017, 06:33:04 AM
Yes!
[asin]B00IO56T76[/asin]

I love that recording ;D
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on June 19, 2017, 03:00:23 PM
And that is one of my favourite discs of guitar music ever. ;D
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on May 11, 2018, 06:52:45 AM
Another good recording of the guitar works

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/na/n8/rfd0k2pm0n8na_300.jpg)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 06, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
I lack any Takemitsu in my collection. What are 1 or 2 recommendable recordings?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 06, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 06, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
I lack any Takemitsu in my collection. What are 1 or 2 recommendable recordings?

if you like guitar music, the disc above you

Also this is a good place to start with the orchestral music
(https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.557760.gif)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Draško on July 06, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 06, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
I lack any Takemitsu in my collection. What are 1 or 2 recommendable recordings?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZwvEtG8GL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fdV6ifIUL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41zU7VF2lML.jpg)

Orchestral, chamber and traditional Japanese.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: lescamil on July 06, 2018, 11:14:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_E2rKxg3NE

One of his more beautiful chamber works.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mahlerian on July 07, 2018, 03:46:44 AM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 06, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
if you like guitar music, the disc above you

Also this is a good place to start with the orchestral music
(https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.557760.gif)

I disagree.  I think the Brilliant Classics compilation is far preferable in terms of performance quality to that Naxos disc.  Draško's choices are not bad for a starter collection, though I als would recommend this disc for chamber works:
[asin]B0006VXF3C[/asin]
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 12, 2018, 05:26:59 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on July 07, 2018, 03:46:44 AM
I disagree.  I think the Brilliant Classics compilation is far preferable in terms of performance quality to that Naxos disc. 

The Naxos disc is a fine recording but not familiar with the Brilliant, available here only as an import it looks like.  The Brilliant does not look to have any of the work from the 70s, Flock Descends being both one of my favorite pieces and his most 'important'.

Here is another good disc of orchestral music, with the 1957 Requiem combined with two late works

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/A10301A0001222944P.jpg?1435762306)
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: snyprrr on July 12, 2018, 11:25:27 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 06, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
I lack any Takemitsu in my collection. What are 1 or 2 recommendable recordings?

How bout that Knussen disc on Virgin?

Either that, or 'Quotation of Dream' on DG, also with Knussen, I believe.

Those two, or the 'Gemeaux' CD on Denon would be my top three.



...maybe Viola Concerto on Philips, with an early,Japanese work...
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: vers la flamme on February 15, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Bump for a great composer...?

I've just started listening to Takemitsu a little bit. I have a couple discs that feature short works of his in addition to works of other composers, and this is my first real exposure to his work. I like what I'm hearing. Reminds me a lot of Debussy, Messiaen, and Scriabin. All I've heard is the Rain Tree Sketch for piano and To the Edge of Dream for guitar and orchestra. As a guitarist I like that he has written so extensively for the guitar. I'm planning on picking up his solo guitar music, as well as his solo piano music. Additionally, all of the Naxos discs with his music look great. I'll try and get my hands on one or two of them to start to explore this composer's music.

As for the piano music, which really interests me, I'm quite torn. I've been sampling two discs, Noriko Ogawa on BIS:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ERuaIHYsL._SL1050_.jpg)

... and Kotaro Fukuma on Naxos:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41YGNHpdgmL.jpg)

From the samples, both sound great, with Ogawa sounding a little more mellow, and Fukuma offering a somewhat more tangible approach, for lack of a better term. I think I prefer what I've heard of the Fukuma, though I've read that Ogawa had worked together with the composer during his lifetime, and from this I think it's safe to assume that she may offer a more "authentic" vision of the composer's music. Ah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm torn. They're both going for about the same price, which is a rare occurrence with a Naxos disc and a BIS disc. I have a feeling I'll end up with both of them a few months or years down the line.

Any opinions to perhaps sway me toward one team or the other?

More importantly, who has been listening to Takemitsu as of late?
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on February 15, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on February 15, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Bump for a great composer...?

I've just started listening to Takemitsu a little bit. I have a couple discs that feature short works of his in addition to works of other composers, and this is my first real exposure to his work. I like what I'm hearing. Reminds me a lot of Debussy, Messiaen, and Scriabin. All I've heard is the Rain Tree Sketch for piano and To the Edge of Dream for guitar and orchestra. As a guitarist I like that he has written so extensively for the guitar. I'm planning on picking up his solo guitar music, as well as his solo piano music. Additionally, all of the Naxos discs with his music look great. I'll try and get my hands on one or two of them to start to explore this composer's music.

As for the piano music, which really interests me, I'm quite torn. I've been sampling two discs, Noriko Ogawa on BIS:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ERuaIHYsL._SL1050_.jpg)

... and Kotaro Fukuma on Naxos:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41YGNHpdgmL.jpg)

From the samples, both sound great, with Ogawa sounding a little more mellow, and Fukuma offering a somewhat more tangible approach, for lack of a better term. I think I prefer what I've heard of the Fukuma, though I've read that Ogawa had worked together with the composer during his lifetime, and from this I think it's safe to assume that she may offer a more "authentic" vision of the composer's music. Ah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm torn. They're both going for about the same price, which is a rare occurrence with a Naxos disc and a BIS disc. I have a feeling I'll end up with both of them a few months or years down the line.

Any opinions to perhaps sway me toward one team or the other?

More importantly, who has been listening to Takemitsu as of late?

Takemitsu is one of my favorite composers. I've loved his music for many years now. As for the solo piano music, you really can't go wrong with Ogawa or Fukuma, especially considering you mentioned they were both the same price. I'd really just flip a coin and see what recording wins, but, for me, I like Fukuma's playing more because it has a bit more bite to it, which, in this kind of music, you need some edge to the performance. The guitar music is definitely worth looking into as well. As for the chamber music, you can go wrong with the Naxos recording with the Toronto New Music Ensemble. A fine disc. For the orchestral music, if you can find it (or if it's still in-print), then the Brilliant Classics 2-CD set should fit the bill. This Brilliant set contains performances that were initially released on Denon. I own all of the Denon recordings, because I'm kind of stickler for finding the original issue of recordings (if I can). Another essential recording is his soundtrack to the film, Ran. Basically, it's Takemitsu channeling his inner Mahlerian as there are hints of Das Lied von der Erde in it. Also, if you can find any of the discs with Knussen or Ozawa conducting for a good price, jump on them --- they're top-drawer.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: vers la flamme on February 16, 2020, 03:18:42 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 15, 2020, 06:45:21 PM
Takemitsu is one of my favorite composers. I've loved his music for many years now. As for the solo piano music, you really can't go wrong with Ogawa or Fukuma, especially considering you mentioned they were both the same price. I'd really just flip a coin and see what recording wins, but, for me, I like Fukuma's playing more because it has a bit more bite to it, which, in this kind of music, you need some edge to the performance. The guitar music is definitely worth looking into as well. As for the chamber music, you can go wrong with the Naxos recording with the Toronto New Music Ensemble. A fine disc. For the orchestral music, if you can find it (or if it's still in-print), then the Brilliant Classics 2-CD set should fit the bill. This Brilliant set contains performances that were initially released on Denon. I own all of the Denon recordings, because I'm kind of stickler for finding the original issue of recordings (if I can). Another essential recording is his soundtrack to the film, Ran. Basically, it's Takemitsu channeling his inner Mahlerian as there are hints of Das Lied von der Erde in it. Also, if you can find any of the discs with Knussen or Ozawa conducting for a good price, jump on them --- they're top-drawer.

Thank you for the recommendations. I think you've confirmed my first impressions regarding Fukuma vs. Ogawa. I just ordered the Toronto New Music Ensemble disc. Ah, so much flute-driven chamber music, it's awesome. I'll also seek out the Brilliant 2cd and the guitar music. I think I'll be set for a while, between all of that.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Mirror Image on February 16, 2020, 05:55:00 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on February 16, 2020, 03:18:42 AM
Thank you for the recommendations. I think you've confirmed my first impressions regarding Fukuma vs. Ogawa. I just ordered the Toronto New Music Ensemble disc. Ah, so much flute-driven chamber music, it's awesome. I'll also seek out the Brilliant 2cd and the guitar music. I think I'll be set for a while, between all of that.

No problem. Hope you enjoy the music.
Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: steve ridgway on February 16, 2020, 09:11:46 PM
I've acquired a few albums recently, quite varied music but am generally enjoying and wanting to become more familiar with it.

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Title: Re: Takemitsu: Sounds as intense as silence
Post by: Uhor on April 09, 2020, 11:24:34 AM
I've made a poll on all his chamber works at the polling station. Besides that, I'm quite enjoying the orchestral work 'Twill by Twilight' which I used to find dull. Devil's in the details.