GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: Guido on April 27, 2008, 08:22:19 AM

Title: Best Salome?
Post by: Guido on April 27, 2008, 08:22:19 AM
There was a thread on the old forum, but I never got round to reading it. So ladies and gentlemen, your suggestions please.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Que on April 27, 2008, 10:47:37 AM
Coincidentally, the latest Gramophone has an comparative review of available recordings - the Behrens/ Karajan came on top with Alex Ross.

But for my money: Rysanek/ Böhm, live 1972:
Very good sound BTW.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51--5qFfi0L.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 11:46:15 AM
Quote from: Que on April 27, 2008, 10:47:37 AM
Coincidentally, the latest Gramophone has an comparative review of available recordings - the Behrens/ Karajan came on top with Alex Ross.

But for my money: Rysanek/ Böhm, live 1972:
Very good sound BTW.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HORpdGojL._SS500_.jpg)

Q

I have not heard either of these, and would like to.  I have Rysanek doing the final scene on another recording, and she's excellent. 

My two favorites at the moment are with the late Inga Nielsen conducted by Michael Schønwandt (which has superb playing from the Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, and vivid Chandos sound) and the DVD with Teresa Stratas, also with Böhm--a filmed version, with the voices dubbed in later.  It was done in 1976 but the sound is excellent, and director Götz Friedrich strikes a fine balance between close-ups and longer shots.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: springrite on April 27, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Stratas for me, although the Bohm mentioned above is a great one as well. Though I have only heard it once, it left a strong impression. But the Stratas, especially on video, takes the cake because of her voice as well as characterization/acting. For most of the opera you believe she IS Salome, and you feel like you understand Salome.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 12:23:49 PM
Quote from: springrite on April 27, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Stratas for me, although the Bohm mentioned above is a great one as well. Though I have only heard it once, it left a strong impression. But the Stratas, especially on video, takes the cake because of her voice as well as characterization/acting. For most of the opera you believe she IS Salome, and you feel like you understand Salome.

Isn't Stratas just phenomenal!  What really impressed me is how young and seemingly innocent she acts in the first half (or so) and then progresses into total depravity--a tough transition to make.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: springrite on April 27, 2008, 12:27:34 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 12:23:49 PM
Isn't Stratas just phenomenal!  What really impressed me is how young and seemingly innocent she acts in the first half (or so) and then progresses into total depravity--a tough transition to make.

--Bruce

Indeed. What also impressed me was how in all other productions, opera and play included, Salome was a character you don't sympathize with. But as depraved Salome is in Statas' performance, you can also, in a strange way, "feel for her". I don't know me being a psychologist is partially the cause for this. But I could not connect with the Salome under anyone else like I do with Stratas.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2008, 12:29:05 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 11:46:15 AM
I have not heard either of these, and would like to.  I have Rysanek doing the final scene on another recording, and she's excellent. 

My two favorites at the moment are with the late Inga Nielsen conducted by Michael Schønwandt (which has superb playing from the Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, and vivid Chandos sound) and the DVD with Teresa Stratas, also with Böhm--a filmed version, with the voices dubbed in later.  It was done in 1976 but the sound is excellent, and director Götz Friedrich strikes a fine balance between close-ups and longer shots.

--Bruce

I agree with Bruce. My current favorite Salome is this one:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/febgmc/SalomeNielsen.jpg)


Inge Nielsen is a great singing/actor. More than anyone else I've heard in this role, she comes closest to convincing me that she's really a petulant, spoiled, dangerous adolescent with uncontrollable hormones and not a middle-aged diva.

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2008, 12:29:05 PM
Inge Nielsen is a great singing/actor. More than anyone else I've heard in this role, she comes closest to convincing me that she's really a petulant, spoiled, dangerous adolescent with uncontrollable hormones and not a middle-aged diva.

Sarge

That's the dilemma with this role, isn't it!

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: kristopaivinen on April 27, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
I can't understand how you like the Inga Nielsen one. She sounds like a pristine peacock on helium. The orchestra I find too hasty. Then again, I like the Solti one with Nilsson, which in turn ruins my credibility in the eyes of some.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 12:48:32 PM
Well, this is why we have so many recordings to choose from...

I've heard the Solti/Nilsson recording (not in a long time) and I recall liking it: musically, on its own terms, very powerful.  But character-wise, I didn't buy her as an adolescent.  But to each his own...

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2008, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: kristopaivinen on April 27, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Then again, I like the Solti one with Nilsson, which in turn ruins my credibility in the eyes of some.

Well, yes, it does  ;)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/febgmc/SalomeNilsson.jpg)

Now we know why Jokanaan preferred beheading ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2008, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 12:35:47 PM
That's the dilemma with this role, isn't it!

--Bruce

It is. I did see a live Salome once where the illusion was complete. In Strasbourg, in 1975. I was about one third back from the stage and the soprano, from that perspective anyway, actually looked like a 13-year-old. Incredibly slender and young looking, with a dance of the seven veils that was close to kiddie porn. I have no idea now who she was. I think she was French but I wasn't familiar with her name and I subsequently lost the program. It did prove to me that it was possible to have a credible looking Salome who could also handle the role's musical demands.

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 01:16:05 PM
Might it have been Maria Ewing, back in the day?  (I've never seen her, nor the DVD of her performance, so I'm just guessing.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: kristopaivinen on April 27, 2008, 01:19:34 PM
I don't really know any Salome I would like to call the best one. Then again, I haven't heard more than the Nielsen, the Solti/Nilsson, Mehta/Marton, some Malfitano version and the Karajan/Behrens one. I don't remember why I dismissed Zubin Mehta's orchestra, but Eva Marton is one soprano to avoid like ear cancer. I haven't heard many uglier voices. I used to worship the Karajan one when I was younger, but now I find Behrens has a poor dynamic range, and Karajan's orchestra lacks the power of the Nilsson one. It's a shame I haven't heard Karl Boehm's performances, given that he ranks on my list above all the aforementioned conductors. Wonder how the singers fare.

I wonder how Solti's Frau Ohne Schatten turned out so mediocre. Reinhild Runkel (the Nurse) is the worst. And Placido Domingo? You must be kidding me!
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:22:48 PM
Quote from: Guido on April 27, 2008, 08:22:19 AM
There was a thread on the old forum, but I never got round to reading it. So ladies and gentlemen, your suggestions please.

Guido you really should see this movie opera of Salome.  I have recommended it to so many people in the past and I'll recommend it again:

  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518W2K12lqL._SS500_.jpg)

  Definitely worth experiencing!!

  marvin
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: springrite on April 27, 2008, 01:24:12 PM
Quote from: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:22:48 PM
Guido you really should see this movie opera of Salome.  I have recommended it to so many people in the past and I'll recommend it again:

  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518W2K12lqL._SS500_.jpg)

  Definitely worth experiencing!!

  marvin

This is the one I am talking about! Too bad I have not found a DVD in China, so I can only watch the VHS that I have.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: springrite on April 27, 2008, 01:24:12 PM
This is the one I am talking about! Too bad I have not found a DVD in China, so I can only watch the VHS that I have.

springrite amazon (US, UK etc.) has it, do they not ship to China??

  marvin
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: springrite on April 27, 2008, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:26:33 PM
springrite amazon (US, UK etc.) has it, do they not ship to China??

  marvin

It is just too much trouble for me to order from overseas, credit card, shipping, tax here, etc. One order becomes a huge project.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: kristopaivinen on April 27, 2008, 01:30:16 PM
marvinbrown: This actually exists? Amazing! There is not a more exact soprano voice than Stratas. That I witness on the grounds of her Lulu.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: springrite on April 27, 2008, 01:27:48 PM
It is just too much trouble for me to order from overseas, credit card, shipping, tax here, etc. One order becomes a huge project.

  Sorry to hear about that but just to tempt you a bit the DVD does surpass the VHS recording which I have seen in many ways.  First and formost it is subtitled in English , French, Spanish and this should interest you CHINESE.  Second the sound is DTS 5.1 and the picture quality is much better than the VHS recording.  You might want to reconsider purchasing it on DVD once more- perhaps on your next visit to the US or England??

  marvin
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: marvinbrown on April 27, 2008, 01:37:29 PM
Quote from: kristopaivinen on April 27, 2008, 01:30:16 PM
marvinbrown: This actually exists? Amazing! There is not a more exact soprano voice than Stratas. That I witness on the grounds of her Lulu.

  Yes I believe it was released a year or so ago, a must see!

  marvin
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2008, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 27, 2008, 01:16:05 PM
Might it have been Maria Ewing, back in the day?  (I've never seen her, nor the DVD of her performance, so I'm just guessing.)

--Bruce

Possible. I can't find much online about her early career other than she debuted at the Met in 1976. It's possible she sang in Europe first although she would have been awfully young (25) for a starring role.

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Lilas Pastia on April 27, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
There's a Salome to suit every taste, even those with no taste. Which is good, considering how multi-faceted the work really is. Although I'd never consider recommending it as a first choice, Caballé (Leinsdorf) uncovers vocal wonders I never imagined were in the score. She makes you hear Salome as you won't hear her elsewhere: with as much charisma in the soft, dreamy parts of the role as there can be in the raging, tantrum-filled outbursts. Unfortunately, the dynamic range is rather compressed, which will simply not do for this work.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: marvinbrown on April 28, 2008, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on April 27, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
There's a Salome to suit every taste, even those with no taste. Which is good, considering how multi-faceted the work really is. Although I'd never consider recommending it as a first choice, Caballé (Leinsdorf) uncovers vocal wonders I never imagined were in the score. She makes you hear Salome as you won't hear her elsewhere: with as much charisma in the soft, dreamy parts of the role as there can be in the raging, tantrum-filled outbursts. Unfortunately, the dynamic range is rather compressed, which will simply not do for this work.

  I will admit that the role of Salome is difficult to cast.  On the one hand Salome has to sound and look like a spoiled, lustfull conceited young girl which is what the biblical character is after all. On the other hand Strauss has written some very demanding soprano "monologues" for the character, I am referring to the final scene involving Salome and the head of you know who  ;) among many others.  Question is how do you reconcile the two?? How do provide a voice for the immature young Salome that can soar to great heights in those soprano monologues while still maintaining the character intact (ie never deviating from the fact that this is still an immature spoiled young girl).  It is here where I believe that Stratas in the Bohm DVD opera movie shines.  She carries the role, both vocally and acting wise exceptionally well! 
 
  marvin
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on April 28, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
I have to agree with the general consensus. Stratas is superb on DVD, and, even though this is a film, with the singers miming to a soundtrack of their voices, she actually looks as if she is really singing. Maybe she was.
My preference on modern(ish) recordings would be for Karajan with Behrens, but, going back a bit now, I see nobody has yet mentioned Welitsch. I think there are two extant live versions from the Met, both conducted by Fritz Reiner. The earlier one, recorded in 1949, is definitely the one to go for, Welitsch's voice still being in prime condition. Jochanaan is Herbert Janssen and Herod is Fredercik Jagel. By 1952, when Hans Hotter is Joachanaan, Welistch's voice is already showing signs of weakness. Incidentally, there is also a 1944 recording of her singing the final scene, conducted by Lovro von Matacic, which I have yet to be heard bettered - by anybody.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: springrite on April 28, 2008, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 28, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
My preference on modern(ish) recordings would be for Karajan with Behrens, but, going back a bit now, I see nobody has yet mentioned Welitsch. I think there are two extant live versions from the Met, both conducted by Fritz Reiner. The earlier one, recorded in 1949, is definitely the one to go for, Welitsch's voice still being in prime condition. Jochanaan is Herbert Janssen and Herod is Fredercik Jagel. By 1952, when Hans Hotter is Joachanaan, Welistch's voice is already showing signs of weakness. Incidentally, there is also a 1944 recording of her singing the final scene, conducted by Lovro von Matacic, which I have yet to be heard bettered - by anybody.



I have the final scene and it is indeed fantastic! I did not mention Welistch because I only have the final scene and not the complete opera.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2008, 04:12:02 AM
Quote from: springrite on April 28, 2008, 02:21:56 AM
I have the final scene and it is indeed fantastic! I did not mention Welistch because I only have the final scene and not the complete opera.

The same reason I didn't mention her. In fact, she was the first Salome I ever heard (on an LP of opera arias that included the final scene). I really should acquire a complete performance.

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2008, 04:14:59 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on April 27, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
There's a Salome to suit every taste, even those with no taste. Which is good, considering how multi-faceted the work really is. Although I'd never consider recommending it as a first choice, Caballé (Leinsdorf) uncovers vocal wonders I never imagined were in the score.

I agree. Hers was the first CD version of the opera I bought and I enjoy it very much. It's a bit counterintuitive but she actually sang the role really well...at least on record.

Another performance I'm interested in but haven't acquired yet is the Sinopoli/Studer. Has anyone heard it?

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Hector on April 28, 2008, 06:11:18 AM
'Gramophone' got it about right, unless, of course, you are not bothered overmuch about sound quality in this of all operas!

My favourite remains Nielsen.

I saw Ewing do this at Covent Garden with Terfel, Riegel and, I think, Rysanek with Dohnanyi in the pit.

Ewing did a full strip and faced the audience. I'm sure this is on DVD.

I think Maria Ewing was still married to Peter Hall at the time. Just shows how long ago it was.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Siedler on April 28, 2008, 09:12:32 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2008, 04:14:59 AM
Another performance I'm interested in but haven't acquired yet is the Sinopoli/Studer. Has anyone heard it?
Yes and it is wonderful, my favourite.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: ChamberNut on March 01, 2009, 08:39:11 AM
Just watched this last night, my first viewing of Opera on DVD, and it was absolutely riveting! :):

Salome

Maria Ewing - Salome
Michael Devlin - Jokanaan
Kenneth Riegel - Herod
Gillian Knight - Herodias
Robin Leggate - Narraboth

Covent Garden
Conductor:  Edward Downes
Director: Peter Hall

Kultur video
1992 (I believe)
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: ChamberNut on March 01, 2009, 08:50:39 AM
Quote from: KammerNuss on March 01, 2009, 08:39:11 AM
Just watched this last night, my first viewing of Opera on DVD, and it was absolutely riveting! :):

Salome

Maria Ewing - Salome
Michael Devlin - Jokanaan
Kenneth Riegel - Herod
Gillian Knight - Herodias
Robin Leggate - Narraboth

Covent Garden
Conductor:  Edward Downes
Director: Peter Hall

Kultur video
1992 (I believe)

Just want to add that although the performance was incredible, the video quality and sound were not very good, in my opinion.  But, still worth a view for the disturbing performance of Ewing as Salome, and tremendous performance by Michael Devlin as John the Baptist.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on March 01, 2009, 08:55:57 AM
It is a very long time since I saw this performance. I seem to think the lip-sync was quite poor, did you notice one way or the other?

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: ChamberNut on March 01, 2009, 08:58:50 AM
Quote from: knight on March 01, 2009, 08:55:57 AM
It is a very long time since I saw this performance. I seem to think the lip-sync was quite poor, did you notice one way or the other?

Mike

Hmm, to be honest, I never paid attention to that at all.  Didn't notice any lip-synching.  :o I guess I must have been enthralled with my first full viewing of opera, that I didn't pay any attention to certain details.  :)  I'll have to put it back on to check that out.  This was a copy I got from the downtown library.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on March 01, 2009, 09:03:11 AM
Not to worry...really from your point of view, it does not matter, the main thing being that it knocked your socks off.

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on March 01, 2009, 02:47:40 PM
Quote from: knight on March 01, 2009, 08:55:57 AM
It is a very long time since I saw this performance. I seem to think the lip-sync was quite poor, did you notice one way or the other?

Mike

I'm confused. I thought the Ewing Salome was recorded live at Covent Garden. Why would there be any lip-synching?
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: wagnernn on March 02, 2009, 03:10:28 AM
How about the Salome with Clemens Krauss and Christel Goltz?
http://www.amazon.com/Clemens-Krauss-conducts-Strauss-Recording/dp/B000276K4G
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on March 04, 2009, 09:58:10 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on March 01, 2009, 02:47:40 PM
I'm confused. I thought the Ewing Salome was recorded live at Covent Garden. Why would there be any lip-synching?

Yes, my comments were about a version with Teresa Stratas....so I was barking up the wrong tree altogether. My apologies.

wagnernn, sorry, I don't know that version at all.

Mike

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on March 04, 2009, 03:29:06 PM
Quote from: knight on March 04, 2009, 09:58:10 AM
Yes, my comments were about a version with Teresa Stratas....so I was barking up the wrong tree altogether. My apologies.


Mike



Oddly I remember the opposite about the lip-synching on that version. Stratas at least seemed as if she was really singing. I still think she's just about the most convincing Salome on DVD.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Brahmsian on September 02, 2010, 08:32:28 AM
Scarpia, your post in the Wagner's Valhalla thread got me thinking about the 'ideal' Salome candidate.

Hmmm, who would I enjoy most seeing doing the 'Dance of the Seven Veils'?

I happen to think, Colombian beauty, Sofia Vergara of Modern Family would be right up there for me!  :)

(http://www.remotepatrolled.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sofia_vergara_elton_john_academy_awards_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 02, 2010, 08:35:54 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on September 02, 2010, 08:32:28 AM
Scarpia, your post in the Wagner's Valhalla thread got me thinking about the 'ideal' Salome candidate.

Hmmm, who would I enjoy most seeing doing the 'Dance of the Seven Veils'?

I happen to think, Colombian beauty, Sofia Vergara of Modern Family would be right up there for me!  :)

(http://www.remotepatrolled.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sofia_vergara_elton_john_academy_awards_6.jpg)

Yes, I'd much rather see her dance than Natalie Portman...or Birgit Nilsson  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Brahmsian on September 02, 2010, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 02, 2010, 08:35:54 AM
Yes, I'd much rather see her dance than Natalie Portman...or Birgit Nilsson  :D

Sarge

Well, I do think Natalie Portman is very beautiful.  Sofia though.....is off the charts gorgeous, and coupled with her accent.  Yow!  :D
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on September 02, 2010, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 02, 2010, 08:35:54 AM
Yes, I'd much rather see her dance than Natalie Portman...or Birgit Nilsson  :D

Sarge

Dunno what you mean; Big Birgit frotting a plastic wall, unforgetable!

(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/260/260115_1_f.jpg)

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Superhorn on September 03, 2010, 08:10:51 AM
   I have the Solti Frau,and I wouldn't call it mediocre at all.
     Runkel is as menacing as you could want as the nurse,and this role does not call for a conventionally beautiful voice anyway, and Domingo sings with a tonal beauty that you almost never get from the German tenors who sing this role. The rest of the cast is first rate, and Solti and the VPO are at the height of considerable Straussian powers.  I also have the DVD from Salzburg with a differerent cast, but also excellent.  I recommend both highly.
   The Solti Salome is also rightly considered a classic.
    The Behrens/Karajan Salome is somewhat more understated, but still has a lot going for it.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Guido on September 04, 2010, 07:55:57 AM
Quote from: Superhorn on September 03, 2010, 08:10:51 AM
   I have the Solti Frau,and I wouldn't call it mediocre at all.
     Runkel is as menacing as you could want as the nurse,and this role does not call for a conventionally beautiful voice anyway, and Domingo sings with a tonal beauty that you almost never get from the German tenors who sing this role. The rest of the cast is first rate, and Solti and the VPO are at the height of considerable Straussian powers.  I also have the DVD from Salzburg with a differerent cast, but also excellent.  I recommend both highly.
   The Solti Salome is also rightly considered a classic.
    The Behrens/Karajan Salome is somewhat more understated, but still has a lot going for it.

Understated? It's difficult to imagine that adjective being dexcribed to any good performance of this piece!  :)
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Brahmsian on September 08, 2010, 07:42:26 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 08, 2010, 04:17:11 AM
My admiration for Nilsson knows no bounds. A tremendous talent, a unique voice, a force of nature....utterly mindboggling live (I only heard her once unfortunately). But the love is missing. I just don't love her voice, especially in Salome where I think Behrens is more sensitive to the text, Studer more beautifully sung, Caballé more girlish sounding, and Nielsen far more believable as a spoiled adolescent brat determined to get her way. Considering her vocal acting, Nielsen is my favorite Salome.

Sarge

I really enjoyed Maria Ewing's performance of Salome

(http://i43.tower.com/images/mm106996422/richard-strauss-salome-peter-hall-edward-downes-maria-michael-devlin-dvd-cover-art.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 02:30:58 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on September 08, 2010, 07:42:26 AM
I really enjoyed Maria Ewing's performance of Salome

(http://i43.tower.com/images/mm106996422/richard-strauss-salome-peter-hall-edward-downes-maria-michael-devlin-dvd-cover-art.jpg)

The only DVD version I've seen is the Malfitano/Dohnányi. I need to see Ewing....and Stratas.

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Lethevich on September 09, 2010, 02:40:45 AM
That second Malfitano is super, and surprisingly rarely mentioned compared to her first (I think) recording with Sinopoli - which admittedly I prefer by a hair. She's a great actress, and rarely has Salome seemed more unhinged by the end.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: AndyD. on September 09, 2010, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 02:30:58 AM
The only DVD version I've seen is the Malfitano/Dohnányi. I need to see Ewing....and Stratas.

Sarge


The Ewing is very good. The Stratas dvd is great, especially for a studio concocted version. Stratas sings exceptionally, and she definitely has some sex appeal. The Tanz, however, is pretty horrid.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: jhar26 on September 09, 2010, 03:10:44 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 02:30:58 AM
The only DVD version I've seen is the Malfitano/Dohnányi. I need to see Ewing....and Stratas.

Sarge
........and Karita Mattila.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 04:34:53 AM
Quote from: jhar26 on September 09, 2010, 03:10:44 AM
........and Karita Mattila.

Yeah, it's a pity her MET performance hasn't been released on DVD. Is there any chance it will be? For sheer eroticism, though, Francesca Patane is hard to beat: incredible body and, at least from a distance (and in crappy amateur youtube quality), very youthful looking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL1JNzJwS3Y&feature=related

I don't know if she can actually sing, but who cares?  ;D

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/july2010/francesca%20patane.jpg)

Sarge
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Scarpia on September 09, 2010, 04:43:48 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 04:34:53 AM
Yeah, it's a pity her MET performance hasn't been released on DVD. Is there any chance it will be? For sheer eroticism, though, Francesca Patane is hard to beat: incredible body and, at least from a distance (and in crappy amateur youtube quality), very youthful looking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL1JNzJwS3Y&feature=related

I don't know if she can actually sing, but who cares?  ;D

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/july2010/francesca%20patane.jpg)

Sarge

The performance was broadcast live to movie theaters, and I thought it was released on DVD.  My memory playing tricks on me.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: DavidRoss on September 09, 2010, 07:20:03 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 09, 2010, 04:34:53 AM
Yeah, it's a pity her MET performance hasn't been released on DVD. Is there any chance it will be? For sheer eroticism, though, Francesca Patane is hard to beat: incredible body and, at least from a distance (and in crappy amateur youtube quality), very youthful looking:
Womanly rather than girlish (and in great shape!), but far more believable than the matronly sorts usually given this role!  Her "dancing," however, leaves much to be desired--what was that bizarre "robot" stuff about?
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Scarpia on September 09, 2010, 09:44:47 AM
Nadja Michael is featured in two DVDs of Salome, which which this is the less freaky.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UFkFuPG5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on September 09, 2010, 01:15:03 PM
There was nothing even vaguely erotic about Mattela's Salome.

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: johnshade on September 12, 2010, 07:58:34 AM
SALOME: the opera that catapulted Hildegard Behrens to stardom

Strauss imagined Salome as "a sixteen-year old Isolde," to be played "as a chaste virgin, an Oriental princess, with but the simplest, most dignified gestures..."

The great maestro Herbert von Karajan was of like mind, and he found his Salome in Hildegard Behrens - to this day the opera stage's most riveting Salome. Their recording, Ms. Behrens' first, has been digitally remastered.

In the summer of 1977 at Salzburg, Behrens made her appearance in the title role of Salome with von Karajan conducting and achieved great success in the role, thus consolidating her international reputation. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H1WilFV9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on September 12, 2010, 08:16:44 AM
In terms of sound, Caballe is hard to beat. And the entire performance under Leinsdorf is a winner. He has much more grip on it than in some Strauss exerpts he made with Leontine Price.

Sinopoli's set is my outright favourite, his ultra interventionalist push/pull on tempo works superbly here. Thecast is excellent.

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Guido on December 02, 2010, 07:00:18 AM
In the end, all that time ago I got the Behrens Karajan which I like very much, and have listened to quite often. However, I just got the Studer/Sinopoli which is a revelation! Such beautiful singing, Studer so believable as a young woman (its surely oxymoronic to have a hochdramatischer sopran who sounds like a 16 hear old!), and it's quite an uncoventional look at the score, but such detail is revealed. Terfel is great as Jochanaan too. Easily my favourite Salome that I've heard now. Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: bhodges on December 02, 2010, 07:44:48 AM
Glad to hear another good word about the Studer, which I haven't yet heard.  It is the favorite Salome of an editor friend in London, who had heard dozens of recordings over the years. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on December 02, 2010, 01:46:41 PM
I've never been much of a fan of Studer, but this recording has always had a good press. I should try and hear it.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 21, 2012, 09:23:57 AM
And I still haven't heard the Studer version.

Did a bit of "Salome" revisiting over the last couple of days though. First the live Met recording from 1949 with Welitsch and Reiner conducting, and then the Behrens/Karajan.

Of course the sound on the Reiner mitigates against it, a boxy live recording in mono, but Welitsch is absolutely stunning, pouring forth silvery tone unstintingly. It certainly sounds like the right voice for the role. That said, there are greater subtleties in Behrens's performance, and, at this stage in her career, it too was a voice capable of silvery beauty. She also uses a wider range of tone colour than Welitsch. Sonically the Karajan easily trumps the Reiner of course, and his reading is much more lushly romantic; easy to forget, in the final moments, the horror of what is actually going on, and just bathe in the beauty of the music. Here Welitsch and Reiner bring you much closer to the drama.

I enjoyed both performances immensely and wouldn't be without either.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: nico1616 on July 21, 2012, 01:27:23 PM
I love Salome and have the 3 best known versions.

I would definitively place the Behrens/Von Karajan on top, I can not image it to be bettered. The sound of the Wiener Philharmoniker is great, Behrens is ideal for the role and José Van Dam is just as perfect. He is a great vocal actor with a beautiful voice and his pronunciation is always incredible. Moreover the Herodes/Herodias couple is extremely good: I think it is the only recording of Karl-Walter Böhm I have but he is completely right as the weak king and Agnes Baltsa is some luxury casting. There twisted relationship is heard in every bar they sing.

I love Solti as a Strauss conductor, but Nilsson just does not feel right for the young Salome. I love her as Isolde, Turandot, Brünnhilde... but she sounds somewhat too healty and mature for Salome. Behrens sounds a little mentally unstable from the beginning and Nilsson sounds completely (too much) in control. Otherwise a great version, but Von Karajan's has got the edge.

The Sinopoli has the best sonics, but Studer is just no match for Behrens and Nilsson. Moreover, I do not like Terfel at all, with his vocal overacting, here at its worst.
Leonie Rysanek sounds great on paper (as Herodias), but she is well past her prime. So this is the one I could do without...

Nico

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on July 21, 2012, 08:41:24 PM
 Very interesting to read the different takes people have on the Karajan and the Sinopoli. I much prefer the latter and find strengths of the performance which Nico regards as weaknesses. If our tastes all coincided, we would only need a couple of versions, of this or of anything else. Yet again it interests me how differently each listener processes specific voices.

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 21, 2012, 11:43:50 PM
Quote from: knight66 on July 21, 2012, 08:41:24 PM
Very interesting to read the different takes people have on the Karajan and the Sinopoli. I much prefer the latter and find strengths of the performance which Nico regards as weaknesses. If our tastes all coincided, we would only need a couple of versions, of this or of anything else. Yet again it interests me how differently each listener processes specific voices.

Mike
This is so true. I love Nilsson here, but not so much in Turandot. We are lucky to have so many good Salomes (regardless of which one prefers). There are some other good ones like Nielsen too (and the above mentioned Welitsch). But even singers such as Goltz and Malfitano add to the repertoire.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 12:46:10 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on July 21, 2012, 11:43:50 PM
This is so true. I love Nilsson here, but not so much in Turandot.

Whereas for me the reverse is true. To my ears, her voice doesn't once suggest the wilful teenage Salome, whereas her steely tones are just right for Turandot. That said, Nilsson's voice is never one I warmed to, and I actually prefer both Sutherland and Callas in the role.

Can there ever be a definitive performance of a given work? I very much doubt it. We all have differing views, which of course is what makes forums such as this interesting.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on July 22, 2012, 01:11:18 AM
I never really enjoy Behrens, much as she was admired. I find she has everything I look for in a great singer: except a voice. I have just read praise of Nina Stemme in recent Wagner performances. I put her in the same box as Behrens. Lots on offer but I just dislike the uningratiating tone and the impressive wobble. I bought the Abbado Fidelio, for me ruined by her. When I linked part of her performance here, people got my point. Perhaps some of these voices come off better live. The microphone can exaggerate some aspects of some voices.

I still urge Caballe on those investigating Salome and agree that althought the Solti set is good in many ways, Nilsson does not sum up the right vocal needs for the part: Elektra yes, Salome no.

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: nico1616 on July 22, 2012, 02:06:49 AM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 12:46:10 AM

Can there ever be a definitive performance of a given work? I very much doubt it. We all have differing views, which of course is what makes forums such as this interesting.

I think this is especially true for opera. It is extremely difficult to get it all right: all the roles, the conductor and the orchestra. And then there is personal taste :)

This forum is great, but not for my buying addiction. I have only 3 Salomes, maybe one more would not hurt  :D
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 02:39:04 AM
Quote from: knight66 on July 22, 2012, 01:11:18 AM
I never really enjoy Behrens, much as she was admired. I find she has everything I look for in a great singer: except a voice.

Mike

I don't actually like Behrens in much else that she did, Mike, but she sounds quite different here in this Karajan Salome, recorded near the beginning of her career. She sounds quite different here to how she sounds in many of her other recordings, the voice secure and with a silvery brightness suited to the role, not a million miles from Welitsch actually.

I can't comment on Studer's performance, because I haven't heard, but she, too is a singer I don't respond to. I haven't liked her in any of the Verdi roles she did, nor did I like her much as Elisabeth in Tannhauser. I keep telling myself I should listen to her Salome (easy enough, as it's on spotify), but just never get round to it.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: knight66 on July 22, 2012, 03:46:18 AM
I do know what you mean about Studer: I have her Traviata, never bother with it. I do have the Big Karajan vocal box, so have the Salome we have been referring to. I ought to give it a spin!

Mike
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: nico1616 on July 22, 2012, 06:32:38 AM
Studer has just recorded too much. She sang the Queen of the Night in the Marriner/Philips, it is really horrible.
Then there is Lucia di Lammermoor and Semiramide in the Marin/DG, which are just acceptable.
I don't think she is a coloratura soprano.

I kind of like her as the Countess in the Abbado/DG Nozze and even in Four Last Songs with Sinopoli, but it is a bit of a guilty pleasure since she always has moments of singing out of pitch.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Lilas Pastia on July 22, 2012, 07:04:23 AM
This link  www.classicalcdreview.com/salome.html (http://www.classicalcdreview.com/salome.html) gives an extensive review of the work's recordings, including, most interestingly, many that derive from live performances - some in very good stereo,if one is to believe the reviewer.

I'd be interested in getting that Vienna performance with Rysanek under Böhm.


Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Superhorn on July 22, 2012, 07:41:03 AM
   The old Decca Salome from the early 50s with  Christel Goltz and the great Straussian Clemens Krauss leading the VPO has recently been reissued on  CD and has a lot going for it, too .   I remember it for LP long ago .
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Fafner on July 22, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
Maybe my life is in vain if I don't listen to those 1949 shellac transcription discs, but I'm happy with this one.

[asin]B000NVL49W[/asin]

I can't imagine how it can be improved upon, although I have a few other versions lying around.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Que on July 22, 2012, 12:35:45 PM
Quote from: André on July 22, 2012, 07:04:23 AM
I'd be interested in getting that Vienna performance with Rysanek under Böhm.

I can't pretend that I've heard them all, but has the rare combination of the right singer and the right conductor.

I tried the recommended recording with Ljuba Welitsch - she is overrated IMO. I wouldn't second the label "mightily impressive".

And Fafner, the Rysanek/ Böhm is from 1972! :) (but live)

For a nice recording in opulent sound, however, Sinopoli is your man.


Q
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Que on July 22, 2012, 12:35:45 PM


I tried the recommended recording with Ljuba Welitsch - she is overrated IMO. I wouldn't second the label "mightily impressive".







There's more than one Welitsch/Reiner recording. The more generally available one is from 1952, with Hotter as Jokanaan, and Welitsch is past her best. The voice lost voume and sheen quite early, though she continued singing character roles well into old age. Why, only a few years after this, she is singing the Duenna in Karajan's 1955 Der Rosenkavalier, the voice quite unrecognisable from her glory days.

The 1949 recording has Herbert Janssen as Jokanaan. If you find Welitsch overrated on that, then you and I must have very different ears.

There is also a famous radio broadcast of the final scene with Welitsch conducted by Lovro von Matacic. It was recorded in 1944 and is even better.



Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: Fafner on July 22, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
Maybe my life is in vain if I don't listen to those 1949 shellac transcription discs, but I'm happy with this one.

[asin]B000NVL49W[/asin]

I can't imagine how it can be improved upon, although I have a few other versions lying around.

Some people don't like the fact that the singers are lip syncing. It didn't bother me unduly, and Stratas is superb.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Que on July 22, 2012, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 22, 2012, 02:14:22 PM

There's more than one Welitsch/Reiner recording. The more generally available one is from 1952, with Hotter as Jokanaan, and Welitsch is past her best. The voice lost voume and sheen quite early, though she continued singing character roles well into old age. Why, only a few years after this, she is singing the Duenna in Karajan's 1955 Der Rosenkavalier, the voice quite unrecognisable from her glory days.

The 1949 recording has Herbert Janssen as Jokanaan. If you find Welitsch overrated on that, then you and I must have very different ears.

There is also a famous radio broadcast of the final scene with Welitsch conducted by Lovro von Matacic. It was recorded in 1944 and is even better.

I heard the Reiner recording, so I'll take your word for it! :) The von Matatic recording sounds interesting.

Q
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on July 23, 2012, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: Que on July 22, 2012, 09:49:37 PM
I heard the Reiner recording, so I'll take your word for it! :) The von Matatic recording sounds interesting.

Q

It's more than a little confusing because Reiner conducted the 1949 performance too, and I believe there may be a few other Welitsch/Reiner performances arround.

He also conducted her in a studio performance of the final scene, also recorded in 1949. However it is eclipsed by the 1944 von Matacic radio broadcast, my first exposure to Welitsch. I listened to a lot of Welitsch after that, and have to say I often find her disappointing. In Mozart and Verdi the singing is often short breathed and monochromatic, and she often rushes the beat. In a disc of lieder by Brahms and Schumann, she sings everything at an unrelenting mezzo forte to forte, with none of the true lieder singer's range of expression. So, to be honest, I too think she can be overrated, though not in that 1949 Salome, or in the 1944 Final Scene.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: brunumb on July 23, 2012, 07:48:14 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ScHJ3pjlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Can anyone comment on this recording?
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: StLukesguildOhio on November 29, 2012, 04:37:14 PM
Stratas owns Salome... when it comes to video/film/DVD versions:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51P7IjAK9HL.jpg)

Nilsson is ridiculous in the video footage I've seen of her performing Salome... but when it comes to her singing, that's something altogether different. I think this remains my absolute unrivaled favorite:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51k4w-ej5rL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Bohm is one of the great Strauss opera conductors, and I quite love this recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51--5qFfi0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

For whatever reason, I never picked up Karajan's recording... but for only $7 US I had to put in an order for it.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517ng6BfExL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

The recording I most desire is that of the classic Ljuba Welitsch performance from 1949 with Fritz Reiner:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517GJdF5pfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

For some reason I'm just not up to shelling out $130 for it.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Tsaraslondon on November 30, 2012, 01:12:20 AM
Love the Stratas video.

Nilsson sounds as ridiculous in the role of Salome as she apparently looked to you in video footage. This is completely the wrong voice for the role. Salome is not Elektra having a night off.

Don't know the one with Rysanek.

Back when Behrens recorded Salome, she did have the ideal voice for the role. A lovely slivery sheen at the top, and absolutely secure throughout its range. A great recording.

I am fortunate enough to have the Welitsch already, this the best of the live Met versions, with Welitsch still in her prime. $130 is an awful lot though, so keep looking. Just done't get it confused with the later one, that is more readily available. Welitsch is already past her best by then.

Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: Drasko on November 30, 2012, 01:40:17 AM
$130 is ridiculous. It can be found currently for much less, but on a different German label - Line, of which I can't guarantee the sound quality, but the audio clips at jpc.de sound ok to me:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Richard-Strauss-1864-1949-Salome/hnum/4496676

http://www.amazon.de/Salome-Chor-U-Orch-d-Metropol-Opera/dp/B00023PARI
or used from US amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Salome-Double-CD-U-Orch-d-Metropol-Opera-Strauss-Richard/dp/B00023PARI


Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: DavidA on February 05, 2013, 10:35:54 PM
Karajan with Behrens is pretty unbeatable with the VPO playing rapturously and a strong supporting cast. She actually sounds like a young girl. A remarkable performance unless you want a rip-roaring audio-nasty like Solti-Nilsson. That is unbeatable in its way if you like an aural battering.

As a DVD the Stratas - Bohm is remarkable. Although Stratas' voice is far too light for the part she actually looks the part and her acting is mesmeric. The lip synch is a tally pretty well done.
Title: Re: Best Salome?
Post by: mjwal on February 09, 2013, 01:52:03 AM
I am with those who praise Welitsch, especially in that 1944 recording of the final scene on an EMI LP that was also my first introduction to her voice (her later studio recording with Karajan, lacking a section because of damage to the shellac master, is colder); the Reiner is indispensable as a historic reference (I have that Line edition and find it quite acceptable), though there is at least one more manically orgiastic (live) recording out there, that by Dimitri Mitropoulos with Christel Goltz (1955 Walhall) - for all I know, the later ('58) Mitropoulos live with Inge Borkh may be as good or even superior, though judging by Borkh's studio effort with Reiner in the last scene, I would hazard that she ultimately lacks that insidious tremor of  juvenile hysteria that Welitsch and Goltz present. I have only heard the Behrens/Karajan once: very good in its way, much superior in recording quality, but...*(I saw Behrens as Kata Kabanova in a staging back when she was more or less unknown in 1970, and she was transcendent - nothing I heard from her subsequently began to approach that.) I can understand all those who want superior modern recordings - it is not my deepest need with music, especially vocal, because I grew up with shellacs (we called them 78s), moved on to LPs (not always sonically superior) and then started regularly experiencing opera and other music at the theatre or concerts, so I have different internal parameters. I have seen some very impressive performances of Salome and Elektra, but I am not sure I would wish to hear them on record, which is in so many ways a deceptive medium, especially for vocal performances and musical theatre.
* I would add that the live recording of Behrens/Karajan may be superior, even sound-wise, according to this useful resource: http://classicalcdreview.com/salome.html