GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Greta on June 09, 2007, 03:17:08 AM

Title: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Greta on June 09, 2007, 03:17:08 AM
Following from the concerto list, name your top 5-10 violin concertos!  ;)

I'm trying to expand my violin listening and there is such a deep goldmine of amazing violin concertos, I know there will be a lot of great new ones to me listed here.

In my listening so far, and I'm forgetting some:

Edward Elgar - Violin Concerto
Igor Stravinsky - Violin Concerto
Ludwig van Beethoven - Violin Concerto
J.S. Bach - Concerto for Two Violins
Felix Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
Henryk Wienawski - Violin Concerto No. 2
Erich Wolfgang Korngold - Violin Concerto
Phillip Glass - Violin Concerto  :D
(I just recently came to this one and it really got me!)

There are some egregious omissions in my list I know. The Sibelius should be here as much as I love his other works, but I haven't really connected with it yet. I did see video of Christian Ferras playing it on YouTube though and it was really astonishing.

Also, who do you like for some these ultra-famous violin extravaganzas? The violinists are a veritable sea of goodness. (Historical performances welcomed for recs!)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 09, 2007, 03:20:28 AM
You are missing quite a few...  ;D

Shostakovich, Violin Concerto
Brahms, Violin Concerto in D
Beethoven Violin Concerto in D
Spohr, Violin Concertos
Bruch, Violin Concerto
Paganini, Violin Concertos

btw, Isn't it rather early in Texas?  ;)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Wendell_E on June 09, 2007, 03:24:31 AM
Berg
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry on June 09, 2007, 03:36:22 AM
O, dear I am a Violin nut, so that is very difficult for me, llets say 95% of all written Violin Concertos, is my top.

But if forced to choose  a top concerto it would be this one.

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: val on June 09, 2007, 03:41:37 AM
My ten favorites


Beethoven VC

Brahms VC

Bartok VC 2

Mozart VC 3 K 216

Mendelssohn VC

Dvorak VC

Bach VC BWV 1041 and 1042

Alban Berg VC

Tchaikovsky VC
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: BachQ on June 09, 2007, 03:54:19 AM
This is shocking, unpredictable list:

Brahms
Beethoven
Mendelssohn
Bruch
Dvorak
Sibelius
Wieniawski 2
Tchaikovsky
Proko 2
Berg
Korngold
Goldmark
Bartok
Shosty
Vioti
Spohr
Bach d minor



Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: springrite on June 09, 2007, 03:55:48 AM
Quote from: James on June 09, 2007, 03:27:09 AM
some faves...

all the bach (great pieces)
berg
bartok's 2nd
ligeti
tchaikovsky
sibelius
shostakovich's 1st (havent heard the 2nd yet)
prokofiev (i have both, prefer the 1st)

I am almost in toal agreement with James, with Brahms added.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: BachQ on June 09, 2007, 03:58:55 AM
add Barber & Schoenberg VCs
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry on June 09, 2007, 04:17:00 AM
Add Havergail Brian's violin Concerto! $:)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: hornteacher on June 09, 2007, 04:26:37 AM
1 - Mendelssohn
2 - Beethoven
3 - Brahms
4 - Mozart #5
5 - Bach in E

Closely followed by Dvorak, Mozart #3 and #4, Tchaikovsky, Bach in A and D, Shostakovich, Berg, and Elgar
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 09, 2007, 04:52:59 AM
Edward Elgar - Violin Concerto
Carl Nielsen - Violin Concerto
Max Bruch - Violin Concerto No. 1
Phillip Glass - Violin Concerto

Also Concertos by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Hofmann and Saint-Saëns.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 09, 2007, 04:54:44 AM
Quote from: D Minor on June 09, 2007, 03:54:19 AM
This is shocking, unpredictable list:

Brahms
Beethoven
Mendelssohn
Bruch
Dvorak
Sibelius
Wieniawski 2
Tchaikovsky
Proko 2
Berg
Korngold
Goldmark
Bartok
Shosty
Vioti
Spohr
Bach d minor



I'm surprised to see that Paganini is not featured on your list.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 09, 2007, 04:52:59 AM
Edward Elgar - Violin Concerto
Carl Nielsen - Violin Concerto
Max Bruch - Violin Concerto No. 1
Phillip Glass - Violin Concerto

Also Concertos by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Hofmann and Saint-Saëns.


Nielson, and no Brahms!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 09, 2007, 05:05:24 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2007, 04:54:44 AM
Nielson, and no Brahms!

Who knows, perhaps Brahms is the best concerto ever. I haven't heard it so I can't include it.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 05:20:57 AM
Bach Violin Concerto BWV 1042 (Wallfisch/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment)

Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto Op. 35 (Kremer/Maazel/BPO)

oh, and probably one of Vivaldi's, but I have not heard them all to make an informed/specific opinion.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on June 09, 2007, 05:55:27 AM
Quote from: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 05:20:57 AM
Bach Violin Concerto BWV 1042 (Wallfisch/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment)

Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto Op. 35 (Kremer/Maazel/BPO)

oh, and probably one of Vivaldi's, but I have not heard them all to make an informed/specific opinion.

Of course, all the usual suspects are here, certainly "must-hear" for anyone exploring the genre. Glad you mentioned Vivaldi, Bogey. As the virtual inventor of the solo violin concerto as well as one of the most virtuosic fiddlers of his and later times, he certainly deserves inclusion.

So, which of his <> 220 extant violin concerti shall it be?  I only have 94 of them so I can't even tell if any of them is "the best", but certainly there is a range of interesting ones or not. If you want to try one of the opus numbered sets, I think Op 9, "La Cetra" has some nicely developed, later works in it. But there is a lot more interest in ones he wrote on private commission rather than for public sale. The 6 on "Concertos for the Emperor" by Manze, for example, are more intricate, darker and generally more commendable than any of the opus numbered ones. But for availability, musical quality, great playing and representation of Vivaldi as an artist, I would recommend one of the 2 disks by Carmignola that are all called "Late Vivaldi Violin Concertos".  At least it is a good chance to see where the genre that produced so many great works in the following 250 years got its start. :)

8)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 05:58:29 AM
Thanks Gurn.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: not edward on June 09, 2007, 08:15:21 AM
My own personal favourites, in a sort of rough order of how much I like 'em:

Brahms
Berg
Ligeti
Beethoven
Gerhard
Stravinsky
Prokofiev (both)
Shostakovich (both)
Martin
Bach (double concerto--is that cheating?)
Szymanowski (both)

The Dvorak and Tchaikovsky I've been burnt out on for a long time (played them in violin/piano reductions when I was younger and that probably didn't help), the Sibelius and Nielsen pall beside the later symphonies, and for whatever reason I never much liked the Mozart, Bruch and Mendelssohn concerti.

Elgar and Schoenberg are on my "to revisit with a different recording" list.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 09, 2007, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Harry on June 09, 2007, 04:17:00 AM
Add Havergail Brian's violin Concerto! $:)

At your service. My personal favourites stem mostly from the mid-20th century (1920-1960):

Ottorino Respighi, Concerto Gregoriano
Leos Janacek, Putováni dusicky
Gustav Holst, Double Concerto
Alban Berg, Dem Andenken eines Engels
Samuel Barber, Violin Concerto
Aram Khatsaturian, Violin Concerto
Dag Wirén, Violin Concerto
Havergal Brian, Violin Concerto no. 2 (the first one was lost during a train journey)
Ralph Vaughan Williams, Concerto Academico
Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Concerto funebre
Eduard Tubin, Violin Concerto no. 1
Dmitri Shostakovich, both
Otar Taktakishvilli, Violin Concerto no. 2
Peteris Vasks, Tala Gaisma





Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bonehelm on June 09, 2007, 01:54:24 PM
Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Mendelssohn
Bruch
Brahms
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2007, 01:47:02 PM
At your service. My personal favourites stem mostly from the mid-20th century (1920-1960):

Ottorino Respighi, Concerto Gregoriano




A bit more on this one would be appreciated when you get the opportunity Christo.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 09, 2007, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 01:59:42 PM
A bit more on this one would be appreciated when you get the opportunity Christo.

From memory, then. Respighi major violin concerto stems from, I guess, 1925 or so (the first one is an early work I don't really care for) and was a failure at its premiere. The composer had high expectations, but was duly disappointed. Yet, even if it's not totally succesful, I think it's one of the cornerstones of his major, 1920s and 1930s style: his very personal brand of '''neo-classicism''', in this case: a rather modal/romantic/neoclassicist version of his ideas about early church music.

But the outcome, the Concerto Gregoriano, is rather beautiful. It reminds a little bit of Vaughan Williams' at his most modal, but is better compared with other attempts by Resphighi in the same direction: especially the String Quartet 'Dorico' from the same period, an passages from his later operas (Maria Egiziaca especially).
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2007, 02:06:03 PM
From memory, then. Respighi major violin concerto stems from, I guess, 1925 or so (the first one is an early work I don't really care for) and was a failure at its premiere. The composer had high expectations, but was duly disappointed. Yet, even if it's not totally succesful, I think it's one of the cornerstones of his major, 1920s and 1930s style: his very personal brand of '''neo-classicism''', in this case: a rather modal/romantic/neoclassicist version of his ideas about early church music.

But the outcome, the Concerto Gregoriano, is rather beautiful. It reminds a little bit of Vaughan Williams' at his most modal, but is better compared with other attempts by Resphighi in the same direction: especially the String Quartet 'Dorico' from the same period, an passages from his later operas (Maria Egiziaca especially).

Is there a recording that stands out here IYO?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Mark on June 09, 2007, 04:15:32 PM
Quote from: Greta on June 09, 2007, 03:17:08 AM
The Sibelius should be here as much as I love his other works, but I haven't really connected with it yet.

I beg you: get the Ida Haendel/Paavo Berglund/Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra recording on EMI. It'll connect you for sure. ;)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: AnthonyAthletic on June 09, 2007, 04:33:13 PM
Anyone here like the Philip Glass concerto as much as I do?

Not top ten, but it is quite mesmerizingly good  ;D
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Greta on June 09, 2007, 08:52:34 PM
Me! Me! It floored me when I first heard it. It's in my top ten right now actually.

Immediately loved it. The orchestral writing is superb.  :D
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Daverz on June 09, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
In no particular order:

Szymanowski 1 (2 is pretty good, too).
Bartok (there's only 1 Bartok violin concerto.  The concerto now called No. 1 was some juvenelia Bartok never intended to be part of his catalog.)
Brahms
Beethoven
Shostakovich 1
Prokofiev 1 & 2
Myaskovsky
Sibelius
Stravinsky
William Schuman
Nielsen
Elgar
Bach BWV 1041-1043
Vivaldi: lots of nice violin concertos
Barber
Martin

Oh, and I like the Glass concerto, too.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 09, 2007, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: Bogey on June 09, 2007, 02:23:17 PM
Is there a recording that stands out here IYO?

Definitely the one with Lydia Mordkovitch, at Chandos.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Guido on June 10, 2007, 02:58:36 AM
I have read somewhere that many people consider the Stravinsky violin concerto the most brilliantly written of his purely instrumental works. Wish I could find the the reference now, but it surprised me somewhat - I didn;t know it was held in such high regard. Must listen again at any rate!

Aside from many of those already mentioned I am partial to Rodrigo's (concierto de Estio).
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: violinconcerto on June 10, 2007, 03:17:57 AM
I enjoy most (in order they came up my mind):

Aloyz Ajdic: Violin concerto
Dmitry Shostakovich: Violin concerto No.1
Marcel Landowski: Violin concerto
Stanley Wolfe: Violin concerto
John Adams: The Dharma at Big Sur
Marek Harris: New Angels
Leos Janacek: Violin concerto

and a lot more
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 10, 2007, 06:33:26 AM
Quote from: violinconcerto on June 10, 2007, 03:17:57 AM
Aloyz Ajdic: Violin concerto

Never heard of, tell us more!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: mahlertitan on June 10, 2007, 06:34:56 AM
Lalo: symphonie espangnole
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bogey on June 10, 2007, 06:35:24 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2007, 10:06:14 PM
Definitely the one with Lydia Mordkovitch, at Chandos.

Thanks Christo.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Greta on June 10, 2007, 12:00:29 PM
QuoteLalo: symphonie espangnole

This would be in my list, but I wasn't sure if it counted as a Violin Concerto...

The Stravinsky concerto is one of my very favorite works of his, it caught me the minute I first heard it and has never let go.  ;D
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: btpaul674 on June 10, 2007, 12:49:38 PM
Rautavaara
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: PaulR on June 10, 2007, 04:26:07 PM
Both Shostakovich one's
Brahms
Sibelius
Mendlessohn (When I'm in the mood for it)
Bruch
Lalo: Symphony Espagnole
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: quintett op.57 on June 11, 2007, 02:42:21 AM
Britten & Sibelius
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 11, 2007, 04:39:55 AM

In random order:

Shostakovich #1
Brahms
Beethoven
Goldmark
Vieuxtemps #4 and #5
Khachaturian
Britten
Prokofiev #1 and #2
Sibelius
Tchaikovsky

Well, that's 12. Time to stop. But there are plenty more!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 11, 2007, 04:40:25 AM
Quote from: Mark on June 09, 2007, 04:15:32 PM
I beg you: get the Ida Haendel/Paavo Berglund/Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra recording on EMI. It'll connect you for sure. ;)

Perlman/Previn, Pittsburg is pretty good too.  ;)

I see that no one has included the Saint-Seans concerti. I would nominate No. 3 for our lists.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 11, 2007, 05:56:34 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2007, 04:40:25 AM
Perlman/Previn, Pittsburg is pretty good too.  ;)

I see that no one has included the Saint-Seans concerti. I would nominate No. 3 for our lists.

I like #3. But no one nowadays seems to play #2 (in public, anyway). It's a fine concerto that Ivry Gitlis and Philippe Graffin (amongst a few others) have recorded.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 11, 2007, 01:49:35 PM
Harry - I have Ulf Hoelscher's complete St Saens VC set plus extra pieces. Regards - Lee
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: carlos on June 11, 2007, 02:27:40 PM
My list;
Brahms
Tchaikovsky
Goldmark
Taktakishvili first
Rakov first
Miaskovsky
Glazunov
Jatchaturian
Sibelius
Mendelsshon
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: BachQ on June 11, 2007, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: carlos on June 11, 2007, 02:27:40 PM

Jatchaturian


???
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 11, 2007, 11:06:14 PM
Quote from: Rabin_Fan on June 11, 2007, 01:49:35 PM
Harry - I have Ulf Hoelscher's complete St Saens VC set plus extra pieces. Regards - Lee

The second concerto only seems to be recorded as part of a "complete" set; Liviu Prunaru also recorded it (as did Ricci). I've never heard of anyone playing it at a concert (but, there again, violinists tend to play just the same six concertos at concerts -- Sibelius, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, etc).

From Carlos's list, I'll second the Taktakishvili, Glazunov and Myaskovsy.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Symphonien on June 11, 2007, 11:33:55 PM
Ligeti!!!

Just discovered this work recently, and it's awesome! That shimmering quality of the first movement with all those natural harmonics and string scordatura, those eerie 2nd and 4th movements with those freaky ocarinas, that awesome third movement where the violin climbs up high with all those scales cascading down around it, and that crazy cadenza in the last movement! Who wouldn't love this piece? I've seen the score too, and it's so cool!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: squarez on June 12, 2007, 01:17:59 AM
To avoid over-long, I've to pick my favors with restraint for top 10:

Beethoven, Shostakovich no.1, Brahms, Sibelius, Walton, Elgar, Britten, Vieuxtemps no.5, Korngold, Goldmark.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: DetUudslukkelige on June 12, 2007, 04:03:31 AM
Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Nielsen
Brahms
Elgar
All of Bach's
Mendelssohn

The Brahms and Elgar did not appeal to me at first, but I love them now (actually, that's true of the two composers in general). Beethoven's is worth it just for the overly-jubilant last two minutes, which never fail to take my breath away, and the rest of it is still among the best. Mendelssohn's, Nielsen's and Tchaikovsky's are just very melodic, beautiful pieces that I can listen to a lot without getting bored. Bach's, I think, are works of skill beyond what I can fathom ever having. While probably not my favorite on this list, they, like most Bach pieces, blow me away every time I hear how beautifully well-constructed they are, how every note sounds like it is the way it would appeal best to me.

Ach, this thread is not helping my ever-growing list of music I need to buy get shorter! I must hear it all!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Scriptavolant on June 12, 2007, 04:14:59 AM
Bach's A minor, Sibelius, Bartok 2nd.

Schumann wrote a violin concerto did he? Never heard (of) it.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 12, 2007, 04:43:13 AM
My top 10 in no order is:-

Mozart VC 3, Beethoven VC, Brahms VC, Bruch VC 1 & Scottish Fantasy, Paganini VC 1, Tchaikovsky VC, Wieniawski VC 2, Vieuxtemps VC 5 and Mendelssohn VC in E minor.

If I can expand my sphere to about 20, the others are:- Robert Schumann VC,
Mozart VC 4, Mozart VC 5, Lalo Sym Espagnole, Paganini VC 4 & VC 6, Shostakovich VC 1, Sibelius VC, St Saens VC 3 and Karol Lipinski VC 2.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 12, 2007, 04:54:00 AM
From No 21 to No 30 are:-

Kabalevsky VC, Sinding Suite, Elgar VC, Stravinsky VC, Korngold VC, Prokofiev VC 1 & 2, Dvorak VC, Khachaturian VC, Vieuxtemps VC 4
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 12, 2007, 04:56:44 AM
Another 3 Russian VCs that were not in my top 30 list are:- Glazunov, Arensky and Lvov.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: carlos on June 12, 2007, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Scriptavolant on June 12, 2007, 04:14:59 AM


Schumann wrote a violin concerto did he? Never heard (of) it.

Don't miss much. IMHO,it's one of the weakest
of his works. Certainly, the worst of his concerti
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 12, 2007, 07:52:42 AM
Quote from: carlos on June 12, 2007, 06:25:15 AM
Don't miss much. IMHO,it's one of the weakest of his works. Certainly, the worst of his concerti

To me, weak Schumann might be the musical equivalent of thin water :-)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 12, 2007, 10:47:56 PM
Quote from: Scriptavolant on June 12, 2007, 04:14:59 AM
Schumann wrote a violin concerto did he? Never heard (of) it.

You ain't missed much.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: op.110 on June 12, 2007, 11:08:16 PM
Brahms
Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Mendelssohn
Bruch
Dvorak
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: bhodges on June 13, 2007, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Symphonien on June 11, 2007, 11:33:55 PM
Ligeti!!!

Just discovered this work recently, and it's awesome! That shimmering quality of the first movement with all those natural harmonics and string scordatura, those eerie 2nd and 4th movements with those freaky ocarinas, that awesome third movement where the violin climbs up high with all those scales cascading down around it, and that crazy cadenza in the last movement! Who wouldn't love this piece? I've seen the score too, and it's so cool!

A fun piece, and one of my favorites, too.  I just heard it live recently with Christian Tetzlaff, who was superb, and Alan Gilbert conducting the New York Philharmonic.  Prior to that, Jennifer Koh did it with the Oberlin Contemporary Music Ensemble (also excellent) and my first live one was in 2003 with Tasmin Little (with Rattle and Berlin).  It is a piece well worth getting to know (especially if you have a fondness for ocarinas  ;D).

My other faves:

Berg
Shostakovich No. 1 and 2
Prokofiev No. 1 and 2
Barber
Britten
Brahms

And although I only heard it once last summer, Magnus Lindberg has written a very eloquent one that I hope will be recorded. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 13, 2007, 11:53:57 PM
Quote from: bhodges on June 13, 2007, 12:14:01 PM

And although I only heard it once last summer, Magnus Lindberg has written a very eloquent one that I hope will be recorded. 


I THINK I read somewhere that Lisa Batiashvili has just recorded it (not yet released). What I remember is that she has recorded a Scandinavian concerto I've never heard of (coupled, alas, with yet another Sibelius, I think).
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 14, 2007, 12:14:14 AM
Some more other mid°20th century, personal favourites:

Nikos Skalkottas, Violin Concerto (1938) (always a bit better than Mozart, this gifted Greek)
Ernest John Moeran, Violin Concerto (1942) (great and mysterious)
Joaquin Rodrigo, Concierto de estio (1944)(wonderful opening)
Edmund Rubbra, Violin Concerto (1959)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Symphonien on June 14, 2007, 12:47:24 AM
Quote from: bhodges on June 13, 2007, 12:14:01 PM
A fun piece, and one of my favorites, too.  I just heard it live recently with Christian Tetzlaff, who was superb, and Alan Gilbert conducting the New York Philharmonic.  Prior to that, Jennifer Koh did it with the Oberlin Contemporary Music Ensemble (also excellent) and my first live one was in 2003 with Tasmin Little (with Rattle and Berlin).

Wow! Those sound like some great concerts. I'd give anything to hear that piece live, or any Ligeti for that matter.

QuoteIt is a piece well worth getting to know (especially if you have a fondness for ocarinas  ;D).

Ocarinas are cool! Especially what Ligeti does with them; he makes that part sound so freaky... I'd never actually heard an ocarina before until I heard that piece, or at least not playing an actual part like that in an orchestra (I thought they were some kind of toy whistle!) I was quite surprised when they first came in! Know any other pieces that use them?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Thom on June 14, 2007, 03:00:08 AM
Also violin Co's by:

- Bax
- Rozsa
- Waxman
- Rawsthorne
- Tüür (!)

just to add some. Tüür will probably be in my short list, not the others.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: S709 on June 15, 2007, 05:02:36 AM
There are thousands of violin concerti so this is really hard!
My top VCs which I can recall right now and which are not be very famous are:

Cristobal Halffter VC1
Gerhard Rosenfeld VC1
Akira Ifukube VC1
Roger Sessions VC
Poul Ruders VC
Bent Sorensen VC

... and from the known ones I really like the Ligeti, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Barber, Glass, Pettersson 2 and Tishchenko 2.

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 12:52:57 PM
The only ones I can listen to with any type of frequency are all composed by Bach.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 15, 2007, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Xantus' Murrelet on June 15, 2007, 05:02:36 AM
There are thousands of violin concerti so this is really hard! My top VCs which I can recall right now and which are not be very famous are:
Cristobal Halffter VC1
Gerhard Rosenfeld VC1
Akira Ifukube VC1
Roger Sessions VC
Poul Ruders VC
Bent Sorensen VC
... and from the known ones I really like the Ligeti, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Barber, Glass, Pettersson 2 and Tishchenko 2.

The most original list in this thread so far! (And quite daring, to consider Petterson 2 and Tishchenko 2 as belonging to the "better know ones" - you're teasing us, aren't you?  :o

I must confess I never heard the first, second, and fourth - nor did I hever hear about composer Gerhard Rosenfeld before. Tell us more!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: The new erato on June 16, 2007, 01:04:42 AM
Cristobal Halffter VC1
Gerhard Rosenfeld VC1
Akira Ifukube VC1
Roger Sessions VC
Poul Ruders VC
Bent Sorensen VC

With repertoire as rare as this, I'd like to hear about available recordings !
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: jwinter on June 16, 2007, 04:34:44 AM
Bach (throw a dart, they're all good)
Brahms
Beethoven
Mendelssohn
Sibelius
Prokofiev 2
Vivaldi 4 Seasons (and many others)
Glass
Saint-Saens 3
NOT Mozart (these have always struck me as pretty weak Mozart, they just haven't grabbed me)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 05:08:09 AM
Quote from: jwinter on June 16, 2007, 04:34:44 AM
NOT Mozart (these have always struck me as pretty weak Mozart, they just haven't grabbed me)

I don't understand why people find early Mozart weak. I find his Violin Concertos very good. I like other early Mozart too. He is ambitious to show of his skills and uses more baroque-like complexity. Later Mozart can be even annoying as he shows more crowd pleasing simplicity (especially in his operas) than ambitious structures.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: S709 on June 16, 2007, 06:15:09 AM

Quote from: Christo on June 15, 2007, 12:59:16 PM
The most original list in this thread so far! (And quite daring, to consider Petterson 2 and Tishchenko 2 as belonging to the "better know ones" - you're teasing us, aren't you?  :o


I don't know, it's all very relative, for example I think the Waxman VC mentioned earlier is much less known than Tishchenko VC2 which sidoze has always been talking about a lot on GMG, and the Pettersson 2nd has been mentioned on GMG a lot too... so in my mind they are fairly 'known' but I suppose it was silly to group them with the *really* known, indeed. :)

I know the Rosenfeld, Ifukube, Halffter and Ruders works only thanks to violinconcerto and cello enthusiast [not sure what his new name is on this board though!].

Quote from: erato on June 16, 2007, 01:04:42 AM
With repertoire as rare as this, I'd like to hear about available recordings !

Ok here goes  --
I only know one recording of each of these concertos I mentioned:

My recording of the Halffter VC1 is performed by Christiane Edinger and the Frankfurt RSO conducted by the composer. It is available on this CD (http://www.amazon.ca/Halffter-Concierto-Violin-Orchestra-Sonate/dp/B000003VRO/ref=sr_1_16/702-4396978-7999268?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1182000882&sr=1-16) which looks out of print, of course!
It is long, dark and with a very "avant garde" sound, and very expressive. It is in a sort of like a slightly more intricate or subtle early Penderecki style. The orchestral textures are one of the key 'attractions' of this work. There is a "clockwork" section about 20 minutes in that is somewhat reminiscent of Ligeti.


The Rosenfeld VC1 is played by Gustav Schmahl/Dresden Philharmonic/Gerhard Rolf Bauer. I am not sure of the source of this recording, it could be a radio recording or an LP transfer (I have CDR) -- just like with the Taktakishvili F minor VC, we can see that sometimes the most interesting music is neglected in terms of recordings. The concerto is wonderful, intensely lyrical and with strong themes, in a Pettersson-ish sort of way. I love it. The composer is greatly under-recorded; there are a few pieces of his in the giant "Musik in Deutschland 1950-2000" series, but I don't know of any others.


Bent Sørensen's VC "Sterbende Gärten" is an enigmatic and in places "ghostly" piece. It takes many listens to uncover its "mysterious contents". :)
Here is a bit of what the composer has to say about it, in the lines notes:

One gray and rainy spring day in 1992, I found myself in an old, overgrown garden. The house with the garden had long since been abandoned. In the dense undergrowth and vines, I could make out the contours of the framework that once controlled this refined piece of garden culture. The encounter with the overgrown garden left me in the same mood you can get into when looking at time-worn photos of unknown people long since departed. This strange mood was the initial inspiration for my violin concerto.

This is a Dacapo CD; the concerto is played by Rebecca Hirsch with the Danish NRSO conducted by Leif Segerstam.


The Sessions VC is available on a CRI "American Masters" CD, with Paul Zukofsky, Orchestre Philharmonique de l'Office de la Radio diffusion-Television Francaise, conducted by Gunther Schuller. The CD also includes Stefan Wolpe's Symphony. It's hard to describe Sessions' music for some reason -- all I can say is that his VC is quite excellent. :)


For Poul Ruders I meant his 2nd VC. I forgot all about his 1st! This is another enigmatic work, with a lot of haunting high-register passages. Very intriguing. It is available on this (http://www.amazon.com/Poul-Ruders-Violin-Concerto-Dramaphonia/dp/B0000045RK) Marco Polo CD.

The performers are: Rebecca Hirsch, Collegium Musicum Copenhagen, Michael Schonwandt.


As for the Ifukube VC1, I have no idea of the performers in this recording I have, I will have to ask violinconcerto. It is from a rare japanese CD. This concerto from the composer of the Godzilla movie soundtracks is quite great, energetic, and inventive. Hopefully Naxos will release it some time, as they have done with a whole disc of Ifukube orchestral works.

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: The new erato on June 16, 2007, 07:27:22 AM
Thank you. Anybody know what Zukovsky is up to these days? His DG recording (with MTT) of William Schumans violin concerto - a concerto that certainly deserves to be mentioned in this thread - is one of the great VC recordings.

And while I'm here let me make a plead for Milhauds 2nd VC as well, one of my favorites and at least on my top 20 list. Probably the best work I am familiar with from this wildly uneven composer.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 07:29:43 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 05:08:09 AM
I don't understand why people find early Mozart weak.

Maybe because it is weak.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: S709 on June 16, 2007, 07:31:07 AM
I have heard those (Milhaud 2 and Schuman) a looong time ago, I will have to revisit them. :)

I'm listening again to the Roger Sessions concerto and one of the most striking things about the first movement is the wonderful interplay between the winds (for example horn) and the solo violin. The solo line is a like a single, long flowing melody, quite beautiful.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 07:29:43 AM
Maybe because it is weak.

No, it's not weak. It's an insane theory that Mozart became suddenly a genius when he turned 18!

Early Mozart is good, people just don't understand how.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: greg on June 16, 2007, 08:50:37 AM
Quote"Only a man who himself deserves respect is capable of paying respect to another man." --Arnold Schoenberg
0:)

surprisingly, i'm not adding Brahms nor Schoenberg. Never cared for either of them.


Paganini- 1st and 2nd (the only ones i've heard)
Berg
Prokofiev- both
Penderecki- 1st (2nd one is kinda boring in comparison)
Ligeti
Norgard

that's all i can think of
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: violinconcerto on June 16, 2007, 09:02:23 AM
Quote from: Xantus' Murrelet on June 16, 2007, 06:15:09 AM



The Rosenfeld VC1 is played by Gustav Schmahl/Dresden Philharmonic/Gerhard Rolf Bauer. I am not sure of the source of this recording, it could be a radio recording or an LP transfer (I have CDR) -- just like with the Taktakishvili F minor VC, we can see that sometimes the most interesting music is neglected in terms of recordings. The concerto is wonderful, intensely lyrical and with strong themes, in a Pettersson-ish sort of way. I love it. The composer is greatly under-recorded; there are a few pieces of his in the giant "Musik in Deutschland 1950-2000" series, but I don't know of any others.

The Rosenfeld is recorded on a "Hastedt" CD, which can be found at www.jpc.de (or some others sources). There exists another CD with the same recording (if I am not wrong) on a label, which I can recall now. This CD contains the Rosenfeld VC1 and Khachaturian piano concerto. An internet search will bring this recording up.



Quote from: Xantus' Murrelet on June 16, 2007, 06:15:09 AM
As for the Ifukube VC1, I have no idea of the performers in this recording I have, I will have to ask violinconcerto. It is from a rare japanese CD. This concerto from the composer of the Godzilla movie soundtracks is quite great, energetic, and inventive. Hopefully Naxos will release it some time, as they have done with a whole disc of Ifukube orchestral works.

The Ifukube VC1 and 2 are released on the Japanese Fontec label and are out of print (and Fontec is only distributed by Japanese companies). Maybe sometimes a copy will come up on ebay. But there exists a second recording - again on a label which I cannot recall right now. But this is a 2-CD-set containing both Ifukube VCs and some other composers works. You surely can find this recording at www.hmv.co.jp or other Japanese online shops.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 09:27:31 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 08:37:51 AM
No, it's not weak. It's an insane theory that Mozart became suddenly a genius when he turned 18!

Insane theory? Maybe he was a victim of what we generally refer to as 'maturity'.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 09:42:53 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 09:27:31 AM
Insane theory? Maybe he was a victim of what we generally refer to as 'maturity'.

Maturing can have a negative effect on creativity and imagination.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 09:49:57 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 09:42:53 AM
Maturing can have a negative effect on creativity and imagination.

That is if you swallow the notion children are really great at creativity and imagination, which is bullshit.

Here:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=irule
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 09:49:57 AM
That is if you swallow the notion children are really great at creativity and imagination, which is bullshit.

Here:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=irule

Give me a break! Mozart was not a 6 years old kid when composing the Violin Concertos, he was almost an adult.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 12:00:29 PM
Give me a break!

No!

6 or 18, what's the difference? Most composers rarely reach their full creative powers before 30. Individuals like Mozart or Chopin are an anomaly, not the rule, but neither of them are as precocious as you think. Mozart also as a disadvantage in that the music he grew up with was really not that great in the first place. 
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 03:20:26 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 03:13:15 PM
No!

6 or 18, what's the difference? Most composers rarely reach their full creative powers before 30. Individuals like Mozart or Chopin are an anomaly, not the rule, but neither of them are as precocious as you think. Mozart also as a disadvantage in that the music he grew up with was really not that great in the first place. 

You can think whatever you want. I like early Mozart too. Immatured? Who cares! I like it.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 03:20:26 PM
I like it.

Point being? It's still inferior.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 17, 2007, 04:02:12 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 06:37:25 PM
Point being? It's still inferior.

I enjoy the music so it does it for me. If you can't enjoy it's "inferiority" that's your problem.

Inferior to what?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 17, 2007, 05:07:51 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 17, 2007, 04:02:12 AM
If you can't enjoy it's "inferiority" that's your problem.

Inferior to what?

Good question. I am no great fan of the Mozart violin concertos. But compared with many of those mentioned in this thread, they are major masterpieces that fully justify their continuing popularity after nearly 250 years.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: violinconcerto on June 17, 2007, 06:04:10 AM
Quote from: Harry Collier on June 17, 2007, 05:07:51 AM
Good question. I am no great fan of the Mozart violin concertos. But compared with many of those mentioned in this thread, they are major masterpieces that fully justify their continuing popularity after nearly 250 years.



Isn't the thread title "YOUR top violin concertos"? If the title would have been "Mankind top violin concertos" we could discuss if Mozarts violin concertos are masterpieces, but in this thread I have to say: No, they aren't.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 17, 2007, 06:53:44 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 17, 2007, 04:02:12 AM
Inferior to what?

Inferior to greater music, of course. And the fact you enjoy it is mighty irrelevant to everybody...
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 05:08:09 AM
I don't understand why people find early Mozart weak. I find his Violin Concertos very good. I like other early Mozart too. He is ambitious to show of his skills and uses more baroque-like complexity. Later Mozart can be even annoying as he shows more crowd pleasing simplicity (especially in his operas) than ambitious structures.

I tend to agree completely. You raise a very good point as well, in regards to his operas. His operas are more crowd pleasing, yet would I say they are less ambitious or less artistic? That's a difficult question. Conversely, his early work was written when he was younger and perhaps more inexperienced, yet does that mean they are less ambitious, artistic, or even great? Too often people tend to let their perception of the composer's life skew their judgment of the music itself.

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 16, 2007, 06:37:25 PM
Point being? It's still inferior.

How so? I challenge you to explain to me how his 40th Symphony is superior to his Violin Concerto #3. It follows a familiar harmonic structure and basic sonata form, and its first movement is simply repetition. It has a nice finale, but its greatness is found in its good tunes and melodies, let's not kid ourselves. I am unconvinced it is far superior to his Violin Concertos.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 17, 2007, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 10:19:48 AM
I am unconvinced it is far superior to his Violin Concertos.

What trite, this forum is getting worst by the day. Imagine telling poor old Wolfgang that after so many years of accumulated experience and personal growth he couldn't top something he wrote in his teens.

Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 10:19:48 AM
but its greatness is found in its good tunes and melodies

From the point of view of form, orchestration, structural logic and the inner dialog among all the voices (something Mozart first mastered with his 'Haydn' quartets), that symphony is head and shoulders above his violin concertos. Even if you could narrow it down to it's melodies and 'good tunes', they not only set the piece apart from the concertos even more but they also demonstrate the incredible originality and distinction of his melodic powers at this time. Haydn had barely published his 'paris' symphonies (his best yet) and there you have Mozart pushing the envelop even further seemingly without effort.

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 17, 2007, 02:00:16 PM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 10:19:48 AM
I tend to agree completely. You raise a very good point as well, in regards to his operas. His operas are more crowd pleasing, yet would I say they are less ambitious or less artistic? That's a difficult question. Conversely, his early work was written when he was younger and perhaps more inexperienced, yet does that mean they are less ambitious, artistic, or even great? Too often people tend to let their perception of the composer's life skew their judgment of the music itself.

How so? I challenge you to explain to me how his 40th Symphony is superior to his Violin Concerto #3. It follows a familiar harmonic structure and basic sonata form, and its first movement is simply repetition. It has a nice finale, but its greatness is found in its good tunes and melodies, let's not kid ourselves. I am unconvinced it is far superior to his Violin Concertos.

The Violin Concertos are certainly impressive works, but they feature a young Mozart, whose skills of orchestration are still in their infancy. Comparing the impressive complexity and texture of his 40th symphony to his Violin Concertos doesn't really make sense. Certainly the concerto has beautiful melodies and the general harmonic framework is the same, but it lacks the depth of his later symphonies. The Violin Concerto as a form wasn't really held in the same regard as it is now. I've never really been especially impressed with pre-Romantic violin concertos.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 17, 2007, 05:12:27 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 17, 2007, 02:00:16 PM
The Violin Concertos are certainly impressive works, but they feature a young Mozart, whose skills of orchestration are still in their infancy. Comparing the impressive complexity and texture of his 40th symphony to his Violin Concertos doesn't really make sense. Certainly the concerto has beautiful melodies and the general harmonic framework is the same, but it lacks the depth of his later symphonies. The Violin Concerto as a form wasn't really held in the same regard as it is now. I've never really been especially impressed with pre-Romantic violin concertos.

How about Bach's violin concerto and the double violin concerto?  Not impressed by those either?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 17, 2007, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Bunny on June 17, 2007, 05:12:27 PM
How about Bach's violin concerto and the double violin concerto?  Not impressed by those either?

There are, of course, a few notable exceptions.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 17, 2007, 02:00:16 PM
The Violin Concertos are certainly impressive works, but they feature a young Mozart, whose skills of orchestration are still in their infancy. Comparing the impressive complexity and texture of his 40th symphony to his Violin Concertos doesn't really make sense. Certainly the concerto has beautiful melodies and the general harmonic framework is the same, but it lacks the depth of his later symphonies. The Violin Concerto as a form wasn't really held in the same regard as it is now. I've never really been especially impressed with pre-Romantic violin concertos.

Mozart's skill in orchestration matured with his late symphonies, most significantly with his 39th and 41st. The issue is that I don't view maturation of style the same as many of you may. He learned new methods of orchestration, but I disagree that he learned greater methods of orchestration (beginning with the Violin Concertos). Mozart was a master when he wrote his Violin Concertos. They reach sheer brilliance. At mastery level, it's really not so much of knowing more as it is advancing one's style through experimenting with new techniques with the language (ex. Beethoven from Classical to Romantic). The only way you can convince me his Violin Concertos are inferior to any of his late work is if you can indicate flaws, inconsistent logic, or dull melody in the music. In the same respect, I cannot be convinced Mahler's First Symphony is inferior to his Ninth simply because they have different thematic content. Structurally, the First is a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 17, 2007, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 17, 2007, 02:00:16 PM
The Violin Concertos are certainly impressive works, but they feature a young Mozart, whose skills of orchestration are still in their infancy. Comparing the impressive complexity and texture of his 40th symphony to his Violin Concertos doesn't really make sense. Certainly the concerto has beautiful melodies and the general harmonic framework is the same, but it lacks the depth of his later symphonies. The Violin Concerto as a form wasn't really held in the same regard as it is now. I've never really been especially impressed with pre-Romantic violin concertos.

Quote from: Steve on June 17, 2007, 05:21:07 PM
There are, of course, a few notable exceptions.

If there is even one exception, then you shouldn't use an absolute such as never.  $:)

I'm sure that if you give it some thought you will be able to come up with a few more great pre-Romantic violin concerti.

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 07:14:03 PM
Not to mention Vivaldi's The Four Seasons among others. His claim was pretty odd. Concerto form as a whole was still shaping in the pre-Romantic eras (and the Symphony, and the Opera, and so on and so on) , yet the masters produced masterworks in the genre just as well as the romantics.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 17, 2007, 07:17:17 PM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 06:37:13 PM
The only way you can convince me his Violin Concertos are inferior to any of his late work is if you can indicate flaws, inconsistent logic, or dull melody in the music.

By that reasoning you could argue nobody has ever written anything greater then a Telemann overture.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 17, 2007, 07:29:36 PM
Quote from: Bunny on June 17, 2007, 07:05:47 PM
If there is even one exception, then you shouldn't use an absolute such as never.  $:)

I'm sure that if you give it some thought you will be able to come up with a few more great pre-Romantic violin concerti.



Correction: I don't consider the Bach concerti to be exceptions. They are beautiful pieces, but I haven't been really affected by them in any profound way. So, back to the absolute.

I have never been significantly moved by a pre-Romantic violin concerto. That's not disputable.

None deserving mention on this thread.

This thread is about our 'Top Violin Concertos'. I wouldn't nominate any pre-Romantic works for that distinction.

Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokokiev, Elgar, Sibelius....
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 08:55:53 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 17, 2007, 07:17:17 PM
By that reasoning you could argue nobody has ever written anything greater then a Telemann overture.

Edit: Misread your post

Yes, you could argue that. Greatness in art cannot be measured objectively. The objective merits come in through study of music theory in structure, harmony, and the sorts. Yet, these merits are not observed based on value judgments (instead favoring terms such as 'effective' and 'ineffective' to those such as 'good' and 'bad'). As you can see, if we used the reverse reasoning, you would argue music peaked with the Romantics (or the serialists) and everything before it is merely a progression of musical greatness. This, of course, is absurd. The reason the 9th is great, and why Beethoven is a great composer, is because he was a progressive while also a master of previous forms. It's the nature of reason and critical consensus that this marks true genial greatness. Yet, this does not mean all music that he wrote that was not in some way progressive or revolutionary is inferior. There are many fans of Baroque music who are perfectly content with overtures from Telemann and cantatas from Bach, and could easily make the argument that greatness peaked with these composers. They were geniuses, mastered old forms, introduced new forms, thus, the preference of particular forms is subjective, but certainly does not deem the music superior to all else. As for the Telemann overture, it would depend on which one you are talking about in particular.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 18, 2007, 02:21:17 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 08:55:53 PM
Yes, you could argue that. Greatness in art cannot be measured objectively.

To think i was being sarcastic. If art cannot be measured objectively, then how is it that no Telemann overture has ever or will ever be considered as great as a Beethoven string quartet? This is what happens when you deal with absolutes, now you have to argue with the ridiculous.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Valentino on June 18, 2007, 02:52:28 AM
1) LvB
2) Mozart 5
3) Mendelssohn
4) Bruch
5) Paganini 1

Boring, huh?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 05:18:31 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 10:19:48 AM
I tend to agree completely. You raise a very good point as well, in regards to his operas. His operas are more crowd pleasing, yet would I say they are less ambitious or less artistic? That's a difficult question. Conversely, his early work was written when he was younger and perhaps more inexperienced, yet does that mean they are less ambitious, artistic, or even great? Too often people tend to let their perception of the composer's life skew their judgment of the music itself.

It's always nice to see someone agrees with my 'free-thinker' thoughts. I hear a clear difference between young and old Mozart. I explain this difference this way:

When Mozart was young he was trying to show the world how sophisticated and complex music he can compose. That was the way to impress. That was the way his father earned money traveling with young Mozart all over the Europe showcasing young Wolfgang's amazing skills in playing and composing.

When Mozart got older he needed a new concept to earn money. This was composing music that pleases the crowd. This means more calculated structures and avoidance on complexity. This is why there is so little counterpoint in music of adult Mozart. His music has complexity but it could have been much more complex had he composed purely out of musical ambition. Older Mozart spend money like there was no tomorrow and he had to compose "commercial music". His operas are the best example of this. Mozart used his life experience to compose music that appeals to people.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Valentino on June 18, 2007, 05:21:44 AM
I'd say that a piano concerto like no. 24 is not exactly a crowd pleaser, but that's me.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 18, 2007, 05:42:57 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 05:18:31 AM
This is why there is so little counterpoint in music of adult Mozart.

I see you haven't down your homework, 71 dB. That's pretty sloppy behavior.  ;D

With maturity, Mozart's music becomes increasingly rich in counterpoint, often to the point of saturation. By contrast, there's very little use of contrapuntal texture in his early music, and the few examples of fugal writing from this period are quite clumsy.

I didn't know that being a 'free thinker' implied ignorance and the spreading of misinformations.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 05:52:19 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 17, 2007, 08:55:53 PM
Edit: Misread your post

Yes, you could argue that. Greatness in art cannot be measured objectively. The objective merits come in through study of music theory in structure, harmony, and the sorts. Yet, these merits are not observed based on value judgments (instead favoring terms such as 'effective' and 'ineffective' to those such as 'good' and 'bad'). As you can see, if we used the reverse reasoning, you would argue music peaked with the Romantics (or the serialists) and everything before it is merely a progression of musical greatness. This, of course, is absurd. The reason the 9th is great, and why Beethoven is a great composer, is because he was a progressive while also a master of previous forms. It's the nature of reason and critical consensus that this marks true genial greatness. Yet, this does not mean all music that he wrote that was not in some way progressive or revolutionary is inferior. There are many fans of Baroque music who are perfectly content with overtures from Telemann and cantatas from Bach, and could easily make the argument that greatness peaked with these composers. They were geniuses, mastered old forms, introduced new forms, thus, the preference of particular forms is subjective, but certainly does not deem the music superior to all else. As for the Telemann overture, it would depend on which one you are talking about in particular.

Yes, it is true that not all musical progression moves toward greatness, but you must take into account the development of the composer's skills into orchestration. Mozart's Violin Concertos were written at a time when his powers of composition were not yet fully developed. The cantatas of Bach could be considered the finest example of musicianship in that genre (as could the Brandenberg Concerti), but Mozart's Violin Concertos were written long before the violin acquired virtuoso status and it received due attention.

Sorry for the mistake.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 05:59:02 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 18, 2007, 05:42:57 AM
I see you haven't down your homework, 71 dB. That's pretty sloppy behavior.  ;D

With maturity, Mozart's music becomes increasingly rich in counterpoint, often to the point of saturation. By contrast, there's very little use of contrapuntal texture in his early music, and the few examples of fugal writing from this period are quite clumsy.

I didn't know that being a 'free thinker' implied ignorance and the spreading of misinformations.

I have done my homework. I listened all Mozart last years when I bought the brilliant classics boxset. I found early Mozart have more counterpoint than late Mozart.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on June 18, 2007, 06:09:28 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 05:59:02 AM
I have done my homework. I listened all Mozart last years when I bought the brilliant classics boxset. I found early Mozart have more counterpoint than late Mozart.

Then there's obviously something quite wrong with either your understanding of counterpoint or your ears. Which one is it?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 06:19:17 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on June 18, 2007, 06:09:28 AM
Then there's obviously something quite wrong with either your understanding of counterpoint or your ears. Which one is it?

Well, Mozart has a lot counterpoint in his late works but he also clearly avoids it. It's hard to say whether he has more or less but he avoids counterpoint on late works. His early works sound baroque. Baroque was about counterpoint, classism isn't. All knows that.

Anyway you disagree with me in about everything and frankly I don't care what you think.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 06:37:00 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 17, 2007, 07:29:36 PM
Correction: I don't consider the Bach concerti to be exceptions. They are beautiful pieces, but I haven't been really affected by them in any profound way. So, back to the absolute.

I have never been significantly moved by a pre-Romantic violin concerto. That's not disputable.

None deserving mention on this thread.

This thread is about our 'Top Violin Concertos'. I wouldn't nominate any pre-Romantic works for that distinction.

Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokokiev, Elgar, Sibelius....

Clearly you aren't discussing the music but merely your visceral reactions to the music.  I must agree absolutely that you are incapable of being moved by Bach and Mozart.  Your loss.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 06:45:04 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 06:37:00 AM
I must agree absolutely that you are incapable of being moved by Bach and Mozart.  Your loss.

No, there you are out of your text.  You have no business imputing "incapacity" to Steve.

Clearly you aren't discussing Steve's reception of the music but merely your visceral reactions to Steve's reception of the music  8)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 06:46:03 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 18, 2007, 06:19:17 AM
Anyway you disagree with me in about everything and frankly I don't care what you think.

Anyway, your discussion of Mozart is typical of your eccentric Junk Musicology, and there's frankly no reason anyone else should care what you think.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 07:05:58 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 06:37:00 AM
Clearly you aren't discussing the music but merely your visceral reactions to the music.  I must agree absolutely that you are incapable of being moved by Bach and Mozart.  Your loss.

The music of Mozart and Bach.... No, I was only referring to their Violin Concertos. St. Matthew's Passion, The Cantatas, Brandenberg Concertos, Late Mozart Symphonies, Don Giovanni, Mass in C... I could go on for days.  :)

"visceral reactions to the music"

What a silly, and utterly indefensible claim. I've played these concertos!  :(
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Scriptavolant on June 18, 2007, 07:16:15 AM
Pre-romantic violin concertos shouldn't be listened to by comparing them with what came next. To enjoy a Mozart's symphony you don't need to read it under the lens of Beethoven's or Mahler's symphonies. I strongly disagree with the point that music moves toward greatness; an historical contextualization of what you listen to is much more suitable than considering, say, classicism only as a mere preparation for what came next.
And how about the statement that violin concertos in the pre-romantic period were taken into smaller account; I don't agree. Same thing could be said for a lot of other forms. They were simply taken in a different account, not necessarily better or worse per-sé; they're better or worse in the context of your personal inclination, which is a different story.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 18, 2007, 05:52:19 AM
Yes, it is true that all musical progression moves toward greatness, but you must take into account the development of the composer's skills into orchestration. Mozart's Violin Concertos were written at a time when his powers of composition were not yet fully developed. The cantatas of Bach could be considered the finest example of musicianship in that genre (as could the Brandenberg Concerti), but Mozart's Violin Concertos were written long before the violin acquired virtuoso status and it received due attention.

You misread my post. I never said all musical progression moves toward greatness. The progressive is great, yes, but this does not mean what he progressed into is a superior form of composition. It's merely the fact that he was a progressive that makes the composer great. You are also still referring to a different form of concerto. It is clear you have a great affinity for the Romantic concerto. It probably exemplifies the genre for you due to the showpiece nature of the cadenza and the lush Romantic themes. Although Mozart's Violin Concertos do not use this sort of extravagance, it still requires considerable virtuosity and contains excellent cadenza passages for the Violin. This style of composing was not completely done away with, Beethoven marked the beginning of the showpiece complexity to be followed by Paganini and Liszt, yet Schumann's Violin Concerto (and Piano Concerto for that matter) is more in the style of a Mozart concerto, and is one of the most beautiful written. Elgar's Cello Concerto, one of the greatest written, also is composed in this fashion. Similarly, Brahms' First Piano Concerto utilizes a similar logic in its construction, where the accompaniment and the soloist work in an agreeable exchange. It's grander, more ambitious, and a larger work, but its still a very classical concerto in its design and no less great. Mozart progressed in style and he developed new orchestration skills, but once again, he was a master when he wrote his Violin Concertos, and I doubt he would have changed a note in them 8 years later. They merely reflect a different style of composition and the spirit of a younger composer.

Quote from: Scriptavolant on June 18, 2007, 07:16:15 AM
Pre-romantic violin concertos shouldn't be listened to by comparing them with what came next. To enjoy a Mozart's symphony you don't need to read it under the lens of Beethoven's or Mahler's symphonies. I strongly disagree with the point that music moves toward greatness; an historical contextualization of what you listen to is much more suitable than considering, say, classicism only as a mere preparation for what came next.
And how about the statement that violin concertos in the pre-romantic period were taken into smaller account; I don't agree. Same thing could be said for a lot of other forms. They were simply taken in a different account, not necessarily better or worse per-sé; they're better or worse in the context of your personal inclination, which is a different story.

Precisely!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 07:35:56 AM
You misread my post. I never said all musical progression moves toward greatness. The progressive is great, yes, but this does not mean what he progressed into is a superior form of composition. It's merely the fact that he was a progressive that makes the composer great. You are also still referring to a different form of concerto. It is clear you have a great affinity for the Romantic concerto. It probably exemplifies the genre for you due to the showpiece nature of the cadenza and the lush Romantic themes. Although Mozart's Violin Concertos do not use this sort of extravagance, it still requires considerable virtuosity and contains excellent cadenza passages for the Violin. This style of composing was not completely done away with, Beethoven marked the beginning of the showpiece complexity to be followed by Paganini and Liszt, yet Schumann's Violin Concerto (and Piano Concerto for that matter) is more in the style of a Mozart concerto, and is one of the most beautiful written. Elgar's Cello Concerto, one of the greatest written, also is composed in this fashion. Similarly, Brahms' First Piano Concerto utilizes a similar logic in its construction, where the accompaniment and the soloist work in an agreeable exchange. It's grander, more ambitious, and a larger work, but its still a very classical concerto in its design and no less great. Mozart progressed in style and he developed new orchestration skills, but once again, he was a master when he wrote his Violin Concertos, and I doubt he would have changed a note in them 8 years later. They merely reflect a different style of composition and the spirit of a younger composer.

Precisely!

If you read the sentence of my post, you'll see that there is a pretty obvious error.  it is meant to read "not all musical progession". Otherwise, I agree with your post.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 07:58:47 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 18, 2007, 07:40:17 AM
If you read the sentence of my post, you'll see that there is a pretty obvious error.  it is meant to read "not all musical progession". Otherwise, I agree with your post.

Ah, I see the edit now. I still think my post addresses the rest of your post.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 18, 2007, 07:05:58 AM
The music of Mozart and Bach.... No, I was only referring to their Violin Concertos. St. Matthew's Passion, The Cantatas, Brandenberg Concertos, Late Mozart Symphonies, Don Giovanni, Mass in C... I could go on for days.  :)

"visceral reactions to the music"

What a silly, and utterly indefensible claim. I've played these concertos!  :(

Yes, but the music hasn't moved you.  That's the real pity.  A musician who admits that he doesn't feel moved by the music he plays? What would you say to the actor who has played Hamlet but finds him a boring fellow?  Sometimes listening to AS Mutter playing Mozart and Beethoven I wonder when she became bored by their music as well. 
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 08:27:49 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
Yes, but the music hasn't moved you.  That's the real pity.  A musician who admits that he doesn't feel moved by the music he plays? What would you say to the actor who has played Hamlet but finds him a boring fellow?  Sometimes listening to AS Mutter playing Mozart and Beethoven I wonder when she became bored by their music as well. 

This is really a matter of subjective experience. As a musician, I respond quite differently to each piece that I perform. While some, such as Mutter, may be profoundly affected by these concertos, I am not. These concertos do not speak to me as many others that I play. I was going over a Saint-Saens's 3rd Violin Concerto this morning and I was just struck by how completely it had taken hold of me. I love Baroque and High-Classical music, but I've just never been overly fond of these concertos.

What would I say to that actor? Having personally played the lead in a production of Hamlet, I would be dumbfounded. But, If the character failed to resonate with him, I wouldn't assume that his opinion on the matter wasn't thoughtful. I will restate, for perhaps the third time, that I have plenty of experience with these concerti. I've studied their scores, heard countless renditions, and even attended a couple of lectures. They simply do not move me in the way that other pieces have. They don't come up in my recitals and I rarely practice them at home. Look over the pages of this thread. How many put the Mozart Violin Concertos on their list?

Are we all incapable of appreciating them, then?

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
Yes, but the music hasn't moved you.  That's the real pity.  A musician who admits that he doesn't feel moved by the music he plays? What would you say to the actor who has played Hamlet but finds him a boring fellow?  Sometimes listening to AS Mutter playing Mozart and Beethoven I wonder when she became bored by their music as well. 

There are many who favor MacBeth to Hamlet. I've heard some who find Hamlet too ambiguous morally, and they believe Hamlet to be truly too mad for them to relate to the character. It's not a pity he doesn't enjoy Mozart's Violin Concertos, although it would be a pity if he didn't enjoy Mozart at all. In the same way it would be a pity if an actor didn't enjoy Shakespeare at all. You really can't tell someone what to like, nor expect everyone to appreciate the same things you do.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: JoshLilly on June 18, 2007, 10:05:10 AM
· Anyone here heard José White Lafitte's Violin Concerto in F-sharp minor? The one found on the Rachel Barton CD? I'd like to toss that into the mix as possibly my #1. I've been obsessed with that ever since I first listened to it.
· Carl Reinecke's in G minor, Op.141. This is the best work I've heard by him, even over his Piano Concerto #3 in my opinion.
· Paganini's 1-3!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Larry Rinkel on June 18, 2007, 10:10:13 AM
It would seem that so long as a violin concerto exists, then it is on someone's list of Top Ten.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: BachQ on June 18, 2007, 10:18:32 AM
I've always had a special fondness for violin concerti which no longer exist .......
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 10:20:29 AM
The Island of Extinct Violin Concerti
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 10:41:17 AM
What does everyone here think of Pablo Sarasate's Zigeunerweisen for Violin and orchestra as performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter? Has anyone heard it? I think it ranks among my top 10 Concertos.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 18, 2007, 10:50:21 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
Sometimes listening to AS Mutter playing Mozart and Beethoven I wonder when she became bored by their music as well. 

What a bizzare statement.

Sarge
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 10:41:17 AM
What does everyone here think of Pablo Sarasate's Zigeunerweisen for Violin and orchestra as performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter? Has anyone heard it? I think it ranks among my top 10 Concertos.

I haven't heard Mutter in this, but it's certainly a fun piece.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: BachQ on June 18, 2007, 11:20:18 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 10:41:17 AM
What does everyone here think of Pablo Sarasate's Zigeunerweisen for Violin and orchestra as performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter? Has anyone heard it? I think it ranks among my top 10 Concertos.

Would Zigeunerweisen NOT rank in your top 10 if performed by someone other than Mutter?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 11:34:09 AM
How absolute the knave is!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 09:32:24 AM
There are many who favor MacBeth to Hamlet. I've heard some who find Hamlet too ambiguous morally, and they believe Hamlet to be truly too mad for them to relate to the character. It's not a pity he doesn't enjoy Mozart's Violin Concertos, although it would be a pity if he didn't enjoy Mozart at all. In the same way it would be a pity if an actor didn't enjoy Shakespeare at all. You really can't tell someone what to like, nor expect everyone to appreciate the same things you do.

Steve doesn't enjoy Mozart's and Bach's violin concertos, and has admitted it.  He shouldn't have to play them again and afaic, he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again.  Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either.  An actor who thinks Hamlet or all of Shakespeare boring shouldn't have to play Shakespeare and we shouldn't have to see him doing it.  I don't expect everyone to like everything, but disliking Shakespeare or a Mozart violin concerto doesn't mean that the works are not first rate, which was the sense I got from Steve's remarks.  He doesn't care for the violin concertos because they aren't good enough to interest him.  Mozart wasn't mature enough when he wrote them, wasn't skilled enough at orchestration when he composed them, etc.  The work is at fault, not his sensibilities.  That attitude I do object to because he then goes on to say that Bach's violin concertos are similarly unmoving because the violin hadn't evolved enough as a solo instrument to enable anyone to produce a great violin concerto.  He can't blame Bach's immaturity, so here he blames history.  Again, it's not his sensibilities at fault, but the music which is lacking.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 18, 2007, 10:50:21 AM
What a bizzare statement.

Sarge

Not bizarre, honest.  She works so hard to find anything new and novel in the music that it's very clear that she's bored with the repertory.  They say that Mozart's piano sonatas are the easiest and the hardest pieces to play.  They are easy because they don't make heavy demands on technique.  They are difficult because when you play them you really have to like the music and approach it as if you had never heard it before.  The music has to flow as easily as water flowing downstream; the artist has to surrender to the notes Mozart has put on the page, without vanity, and just go where ever it takes her.  That's much more difficult.  Mutter is no longer content to merely play that music with joy and she's too much of a professional to just go through the motions.  So she over analyzes and examines every note under a microscope to find something new.  When the music doesn't yield what she wants, then she examines every nuance of her performance and starts playing with dynamics, rubatos, vibrato, or absence of vibrato, all to make it seem fresh to herself.  Nothing in the world can stand up to such scrutiny, not even Beethoven and Mozart.  When she plays different repertory she becomes a different violinist, much more natural and less analytical, as in that Zigeunerweisen or the Berg Violin Concerto.  She doesn't have to analyze this because she feels it, and she enables me to feel it too, on a deep, visceral level. 
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Larry Rinkel on June 18, 2007, 11:48:26 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 18, 2007, 10:50:21 AM
What a bizzare statement.

Sarge

If you had suffered through Mutter's disastrous performance of the Beethoven concerto at Masur's last NY Phil concert in 2004 or so, you would have thrown up your hands in despair and cried, "Onkel!"
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Larry Rinkel on June 18, 2007, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 11:38:05 AM
Steve doesn't enjoy Mozart's and Bach's violin concertos, and has admitted it.  He shouldn't have to play them again and afaic, he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again.  Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either.  An actor who thinks Hamlet or all of Shakespeare boring shouldn't have to play Shakespeare and we shouldn't have to see him doing it.  I don't expect everyone to like everything, but disliking Shakespeare or a Mozart violin concerto doesn't mean that the works are not first rate, which was the sense I got from Steve's remarks.  He doesn't care for the violin concertos because they aren't good enough to interest him.  Mozart wasn't mature enough when he wrote them, wasn't skilled enough at orchestration when he composed them, etc.  The work is at fault, not his sensibilities.  That attitude I do object to because he then goes on to say that Bach's violin concertos are similarly unmoving because the violin hadn't evolved enough as a solo instrument to enable anyone to produce a great violin concerto.  He can't blame Bach's immaturity, so here he blames history.  Again, it's not his sensibilities at fault, but the music which is lacking.

Oh, I don't know. I don't find Mozart's violin concertos as remarkable as his later violin sonatas, not to mention quite a few of the piano concertos starting from K 271. They're nice, appealing pieces, but they don't astonish me the way the later works do. On the other hand, at least the slow movement of the Bach double is just extraordinary in my opinion, and I'm sure many others' opinions. (Balanchine must have agreed when he used this music for one of his most celebrated ballets.)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 12:04:03 PM
"Steve doesn't enjoy Mozart's and Bach's violin concertos, and has admitted it." ,

Strawman.  I never said that I didn't enjoy them, just that I didn't find them profoundly moving. The contain beautiful melodies, just like Mozart's early symphonies, but they've never connected with me a deeper level.

"he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again."

I'll decide what I listen to, thanks.  ;)

"Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either."

That's why I generally don't perform them.

"a Mozart violin concerto doesn't mean that the works are not first rate"

Read the title of this thread, please. It reads, "Your Top Violin Concertos'. I enjoy the Mozart Concertos, but I don't consider them to be 'first rate' works. That's a valid opinion, just as yours is.

"That attitude I do object to because he then goes on to say that Bach's violin concertos are similarly unmoving because the violin hadn't evolved enough as a solo instrument to enable anyone to produce a great violin concerto.  He can't blame Bach's immaturity, so here he blames history.  Again, it's not his sensibilities at fault, but the music which is lacking."

That's just a complete misrepresentation of my position. It's not a matter of immature sensibilities, its one of skill. He was a much more skilled and versed composer when he wrote his 41st Symphony then when he wrote his violin concertos.



Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 12:44:51 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 18, 2007, 12:04:03 PM
"Steve doesn't enjoy Mozart's and Bach's violin concertos, and has admitted it." ,

Strawman.  I never said that I didn't enjoy them, just that I didn't find them profoundly moving. The contain beautiful melodies, just like Mozart's early symphonies, but they've never connected with me a deeper level.

"he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again."

I'll decide what I listen to, thanks.  ;)

"Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either."

That's why I generally don't perform them.

"a Mozart violin concerto doesn't mean that the works are not first rate"

Read the title of this thread, please. It reads, "Your Top Violin Concertos'. I enjoy the Mozart Concertos, but I don't consider them to be 'first rate' works. That's a valid opinion, just as yours is.

"That attitude I do object to because he then goes on to say that Bach's violin concertos are similarly unmoving because the violin hadn't evolved enough as a solo instrument to enable anyone to produce a great violin concerto.  He can't blame Bach's immaturity, so here he blames history.  Again, it's not his sensibilities at fault, but the music which is lacking."

That's just a complete misrepresentation of my position. It's not a matter of immature sensibilities, its one of skill. He was a much more skilled and versed composer when he wrote his 41st Symphony then when he wrote his violin concertos.






Steve, what about the Bach?  The violin part isn't sufficiently interesting because...?  Clearly you can't say that Bach lacked the mature skill set to create great music when he composed those.  They don't work for you either on the deepest level, but that's not Bach's fault, that's just an accident of history or violin evolution? 

You don't feel the Mozart is a mature work so it's less interesting to you.  Fine.  I think that by the time Mozart had written the later violin concertos his abilities were equal to any more mature artist.  Did Mozart continue to improve as he got older?  Undoubtedly he did, and his mature works reflect the fact that he continued to evolve as an artist and composer.  Does that take anything away from his earlier works?  Not in my opinion.  When you start out at such a high level and go higher, it doesn't mean that the earlier works should be disdained.  I don't hate Picasso's blue period because he hadn't yet matured into the artist of the Guernica. I don't find Michelangelo's Drunken Bacchus or Madonna of the Stairs less interesting because he hadn't the same skill level as when he sculpted the Pietá.  For me it just doesn't work that way.  But, you are as entitled to like or dislike what you wish.  Just don't try to convince me that the only reason you don't care for the violin concertos is because Mozart wasn't as good an orchestrator or had less developed composing skills when he was younger than when he was in his 30s, so therefore earlier works lack quality.  The truth is what you have already stated, that these works don't move you the way other works do. And excuse me for not realizing that when you say that music doesn't move you still enjoy it.  If music doesn't move me, it might as well be muzak -- just a lot of pleasant background noise not to be savored for it's artistic merit. 

For some reason, Mozart's violin concertos haven't clicked with you, and you are entitled to that. It doesn't make you less intelligent or less of a musician, or less of a person.  Just don't try to explain it by saying it's Mozart's fault because he didn't have the requisite skill set to impress you yet.  Just say that early Mozart isn't your cup of tea.  No need to elaborate and dig yourself into such a deep hole. 
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Valentino on June 18, 2007, 12:48:38 PM
I do prefer the young ASM in Mozart and Beethoven to the mature one, I admit.

I forgot to mention the two true JS Bach concertos earlier. Beautiful music.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2007, 01:51:41 PM
I am not trying to convince you that Mozart's Violin Concertos are not works of great caliber. We have numerous discussions on the merits of composers and their works, but this thread is reserved for our favorites. I've never really been inspired by these concerti, in the manner of his later works. You presume to know why it is that I don't like Violin Concertos, and are telling me that it differs from what I've said. I don't find these works to be examples of excellent orchestration, in the way that the concertos of Shostakovich, Prokokiev, Brahms, Beethoven, and Mendelssohn are, to name a few. There isn't the same level of depth. I've postulated that this might have been do to the role of the during the time of Mozart, or his relative age at the time. Those claims lack verifiability of any kind, so they remain conjecture.

"And excuse me for not realizing that when you say that music doesn't move you still enjoy it."

It's a matter of degrees of enjoyment. Since you are so fond of these literary/artistic analogies, allow me to provide one of my own. I've read the Harry Potter Series, from the very first volume. They've provided me with some light entertainment, and I can say that I enjoy reading them. Yet, this experience does not challenge my faculties in the way that my current reading of Proust does. Reading Proust has changed the way I interact with the world, as well as provided me with insights on the very nature of life itself.

I enjoy Mahler's 9th as well as Mozart's Violin Concertos. I am telling you that the latter has never profoundly affected me as a musician. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy its beautiful melodies.

"No need to elaborate and dig yourself into such a deep hole. "

Stop telling me what I should/not do!  >:( 

Your last post:

"He shouldn't have to play them again and afaic, he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again.  "

"Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either."



Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on June 18, 2007, 02:33:04 PM
I love the Sibelius Violin Concerto.

Heard it performed last year with the NZSO and Vadim Repin. Stunning stuff :)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: Bunny on June 18, 2007, 11:38:05 AM
Steve doesn't enjoy Mozart's and Bach's violin concertos, and has admitted it.  He shouldn't have to play them again and afaic, he shouldn't have to ever listen to them again.  Similarly, no one should have to listen to him playing them either.  An actor who thinks Hamlet or all of Shakespeare boring shouldn't have to play Shakespeare and we shouldn't have to see him doing it.  I don't expect everyone to like everything, but disliking Shakespeare or a Mozart violin concerto doesn't mean that the works are not first rate, which was the sense I got from Steve's remarks.  He doesn't care for the violin concertos because they aren't good enough to interest him.  Mozart wasn't mature enough when he wrote them, wasn't skilled enough at orchestration when he composed them, etc.  The work is at fault, not his sensibilities.  That attitude I do object to because he then goes on to say that Bach's violin concertos are similarly unmoving because the violin hadn't evolved enough as a solo instrument to enable anyone to produce a great violin concerto.  He can't blame Bach's immaturity, so here he blames history.  Again, it's not his sensibilities at fault, but the music which is lacking.

It seems you are being a bit of an extremist. There's absolutely no reason why Steve should consider Mozart's Violin Concertos first rate works if he doesn't enjoy them as much as Romantic concertos. It seems to me you are greatly wasting your time in trying to catch him in some sort of circular logic. The argument I had with him was to justify that Mozart's Violin Concertos were written when Mozart was a master composer, and to not favor them is merely a preference of style, which he seems to agree with to some degree. It's mere taste. There is no reason to try and force someone to consider a work top tier if they don't enjoy it as much as others.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Israfel the Black on June 18, 2007, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: D Minor on June 18, 2007, 11:20:18 AM
Would Zigeunerweisen NOT rank in your top 10 if performed by someone other than Mutter?

Hmmm... yes, I see. The Mutter recording is pretty much it for me, so maybe not. Good point.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: S709 on June 19, 2007, 06:24:03 AM
Quote from: violinconcerto on June 16, 2007, 09:02:23 AM
The Rosenfeld is recorded on a "Hastedt" CD, which can be found at www.jpc.de (or some others sources). There exists another CD with the same recording (if I am not wrong) on a label, which I can recall now. This CD contains the Rosenfeld VC1 and Khachaturian piano concerto. An internet search will bring this recording up.

The Ifukube VC1 and 2 are released on the Japanese Fontec label and are out of print (and Fontec is only distributed by Japanese companies). Maybe sometimes a copy will come up on ebay. But there exists a second recording - again on a label which I cannot recall right now. But this is a 2-CD-set containing both Ifukube VCs and some other composers works. You surely can find this recording at www.hmv.co.jp or other Japanese online shops.

Thanks a lot !! Very useful info.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: PSmith08 on June 19, 2007, 07:18:18 AM
1. Ligeti, "Concerto for Violin and Orchestra" - A great listen that demands a lot and gives as much back.
2. Beethoven, op. 61 - Little else needs to be said.
3. Bach, BWV 1042 (E minor concerto) - As wonderful as anything you'd want to hear, which can be said generally of Bach.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: karlhenning on June 19, 2007, 07:28:35 AM
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 19, 2007, 07:18:18 AM
2. Beethoven, op. 61 - Little else needs to be said.

Unless it be: With the Schnittke cadenze, right?   8)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: PSmith08 on June 19, 2007, 07:44:11 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 19, 2007, 07:28:35 AM
Unless it be: With the Schnittke cadenze, right?   8)

Them's fightin' words 'round about my parts. If it was good enough for Fritz Kreisler, it's good enough for us. You best get back to Russia where they like that Schnittke stuff.  ;) ;D

Seriously, though, I've never cared much for the cadenza debate: Schnittke or Kreisler, both are fine by my book.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2007, 08:55:33 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 19, 2007, 07:28:35 AM
Unless it be: With the Schnittke cadenze, right?   8)

Indeed.  :D
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2007, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 18, 2007, 10:51:50 AM
I haven't heard Mutter in this, but it's certainly a fun piece.

Neither have I. From the look of a few of these posts, we're surely missing out on a grand time, Karl  :)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 19, 2007, 02:09:04 PM
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 19, 2007, 07:18:18 AM
3. Bach, BWV 1042 (E minor concerto) - As wonderful as anything you'd want to hear, which can be said generally of Bach.

This is in E major, not E minor.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: PSmith08 on June 19, 2007, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Rabin_Fan on June 19, 2007, 02:09:04 PM
This is in E major, not E minor.

So it is, which I why I used the BWV number - that way I can always be right, even when I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: m_gigena on June 19, 2007, 05:28:27 PM
Am I the only one that votes for Wolf-Ferrari's violin concerto?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Steve on June 19, 2007, 06:30:07 PM
Quote from: Manuel on June 19, 2007, 05:28:27 PM
Am I the only one that votes for Wolf-Ferrari's violin concerto?

Yes.  ;D
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 20, 2007, 01:51:37 AM
Quote from: Manuel on June 19, 2007, 05:28:27 PM
Am I the only one that votes for Wolf-Ferrari's violin concerto?

No! 8)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: m_gigena on June 20, 2007, 05:13:20 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 20, 2007, 01:51:37 AM
No! 8)

Thanks. Bustabo or Hoelscher?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 20, 2007, 09:18:16 AM
Quote from: Manuel on June 20, 2007, 05:13:20 AM
Thanks. Bustabo or Hoelscher?

I have only one option: Ulf Hoelscher (the CPO CD with Alun Francis conducting the RSO Frankfurt) - because I don't own/know the other one.

And what about some of the other concertos by Wolf-Ferrari, like the Cello Concerto (CPO, same forces, with Gustav Rivinius, Cello, or some of the other ones? I always had a particular liking for the Idillio Concertino (1932) for Oboe and Strings and the English Horn Concertino (1947) - with their strong 'Indian Summer' feeling, at least for me.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Harry Collier on June 20, 2007, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 20, 2007, 09:18:16 AM
I have only one option: Ulf Hoelscher (the CPO CD with Alun Francis conducting the RSO Frankfurt) - because I don't own/know the other one.

Well, I don't know the Hoelscher. But I do know the Bustabo. My advice is: neither! Not surprisingly this concerto has dropped out of the everyday reperoire.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 20, 2007, 11:34:13 AM
Quote from: Harry Collier on June 20, 2007, 09:30:13 AM
Not surprisingly this concerto has dropped out of the everyday reperoire.

That negative point is always easily made. And quite often,  indeed, with regard to Wolf-Ferrari. Well, I hardly know the Violin Concerto - indeed I'm listening to a few parts of it now for probably the second time in my life. But I do know some of his other pieces. And what often pleases is me in them, is a gentle kind of lyricism, as in the two Oboe concertos I mentioned.

Some of their naivité is certainly to be found in the VC too. As it happens to be a WWII composition, and also a rather late one (WF was almost 70 at the time) he could have done worse. I guess for him it meant some sort of consolation.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Rabin_Fan on June 20, 2007, 02:07:44 PM
How about the Othmar Schoek VC played by Boller on Claves?
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: m_gigena on June 20, 2007, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: Harry Collier on June 20, 2007, 09:30:13 AM
Well, I don't know the Hoelscher. But I do know the Bustabo. My advice is: neither! Not surprisingly this concerto has dropped out of the everyday reperoire.


Despite the low audio quality, I prefer the Bustabo. She plays the work a bit faster (34 minutes, against Hoelscher's 38) and makes a huge difference; on the last movement and cadenzas mostly.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on June 21, 2007, 12:56:21 AM
This is what Harry wrote today, in another ('What Are You Listening To') tread:

QuoteWell my opponents on this forum will say, O, Harry he likes all music, and is uncritical.
I know that, and it does not bother me at all. For I and others on this board, and outside know, that's not true. The musical qualities of Wolf Ferrari are topnotch. His Violin concerto and Cello Concerto are to my ears of outstanding quality, and satisfy my notion of musical quality. Not to mention Sinfonia Brevis, a most outstanding work, and the fine Chamber music.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: m_gigena on June 23, 2007, 06:03:17 PM
QuoteHis Violin concerto and Cello Concerto are to my ears of outstanding quality, and satisfy my notion of musical quality. Not to mention Sinfonia Brevis, a most outstanding work, and the fine Chamber music.

I never heard his cello concerto. But what he writes for the violin is impressive, using the whole range, differentiating strings and registers, the concerto is full of double stops (both melodic and harmonic). Mrs Bustabo spiccato through the last movement is fantastic. Reaching it's peak with the final double stops and glissando.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: ChamberNut on December 18, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
My favorite 5 violin concertos:

1- Beethoven
2- Tchaikovsky
3- Brahms
4- Mozart # 4
5- Mendelssohn

Also Vivaldi's Four Seasons.  Beethoven's Triple Concerto and Brahms' Double Concerto, Mozart's # 3 and # 5.  I only wish Mozart had continued writing more violin concerti into his mature years, I bet you they would have been fabulous!  :)

I haven't yet had a good full listen to the famous Sibelius' concerto, or Dvorak's.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: The new erato on December 22, 2007, 09:40:20 AM
My top 5:

Shostakovich 2
Brahms
Beethoven
Bartok 2
Tischenko 2
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: longears on December 22, 2007, 10:05:49 AM
Brahms, Sibelius, Prokofiev (both), Barber, Adams (both), Glass (yes, Glass!), Schuman (Wm., not Bobby with nn), Bartok 2, Beethoven, BWV1041-2-3 & -60, Korngold, Mendelssohn, Dvorák, Stravinsky, and this reminds me it's past time to listen again to Shosty's & Piston's...and we mustn't forget Vivaldi's 4 seasons.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: op.110 on December 24, 2007, 01:56:01 AM
Top VC not in any particular order, except for Brahms and Beethoven, which are my absolute favorite
Brahms
Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Mendelssohn
Bruch
Dvorak
Sibelius

others I thoroughly enjoy
Bach double
Winter Spring Summer and Fall
Symphonie Espagnole

VC i don't care for
Glazunov
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
I have many, many favorites but here are ten that really stand out to me:

1. Shostakovich: Violin Concerto No. 1
2. Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 1
3. Stravinsky: Violin Concerto
4. Bartok: Violin Concerto No. 2
5. Berg: Violin Concerto
6. Barber: Violin Concerto
7. Ligeti: Violin Concerto
8. Szymanowski: Violin Concerto No. 1
9. Lindberg: Violin Concerto
10. Britten: Violin Concerto
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Bulldog on February 24, 2012, 05:14:40 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
I have many, many favorites but here are ten that really stand out to me:

1. Shostakovich: Violin Concerto No. 1
2. Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 1
3. Stravinsky: Violin Concerto
4. Bartok: Violin Concerto No. 2
5. Berg: Violin Concerto
6. Barber: Violin Concerto
7. Ligeti: Violin Concerto
8. Szymanowski: Violin Concerto No. 1
9. Lindberg: Violin Concerto
10. Britten: Violin Concerto

Do you have something against the most popular violin concertos?  Just asking.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on February 24, 2012, 05:14:40 PM
Do you have something against the most popular violin concertos?  Just asking.

I like concertos that are out-of-the-norm just like I like composers that are out-of-the-norm. I think a lot of it is whether I'm attracted to the musical language or not and whether I get some emotional gratification out of it.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: The new erato on February 24, 2012, 11:15:17 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 05:18:13 PM
I like concertos that are out-of-the-norm just like I like composers that are out-of-the-norm. I think a lot of it is whether I'm attracted to the musical language or not and whether I get some emotional gratification out of it.
Except for the Lindbergh and the Ligeti noen of those concertoes are out of the norm. In fact I consider them pretty standard fare as violin concertoes go. Though your aversion to the standard romantic (and classical) repertoire has always puzzled me. It's pretty easy to be emotionally gratified by the big boys in that area.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 24, 2012, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
I have many, many favorites but here are ten that really stand out to me:

1. Shostakovich: Violin Concerto No. 1
2. Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 1
3. Stravinsky: Violin Concerto
4. Bartok: Violin Concerto No. 2
5. Berg: Violin Concerto
6. Barber: Violin Concerto
7. Ligeti: Violin Concerto
8. Szymanowski: Violin Concerto No. 1
9. Lindberg: Violin Concerto
10. Britten: Violin Concerto
I must say, this list does not come as a surprise (though I actively dislike the Ligeti). Besides, I offset your list. Here's mine:
Mendelssohn
Beethoven
Brahms
Bruch
Elgar
Bach (for two violins)
Paganini (#2 I guess, but I do love #1)
Tchaikovsky
Mozart (probably #4. but #3 is great too and I could see #5 as well)
Saint-Saens (#3)

But this leaves off the wonderful Bartok, Barber, and Prokofiev (but who do I remove)! Have you heard the Myasakovsky? That is pretty interesting too. And then there is Hubay and Vieuxtemps, not to mention Sibelius (just not a favorite). And I didn't even know that Wolf-Ferrari wrote a violin concerto. And then there are just so many more that neither of us have mentioned.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: The new erato on February 24, 2012, 11:45:43 PM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 24, 2012, 11:36:14 PM
And I didn't even know that Wolf-Ferrari wrote a violin concerto.

It's quite pretty, even though extensively quoting a popular song from my hometown Trondheim, Norway.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 24, 2012, 11:36:14 PM
And then there are just so many more that neither of us have mentioned.
I particularly love Milhaud's 2nd, perhaps the only work of Milhaud I would use the word love of. And Malipiero's concerto perhaps is the best work of him I know.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 25, 2012, 01:18:13 AM
My top ten with favorite performances:

Vivaldi Violin Concerto E minor RV277  Mullova/Antonini/Il Giardino Armonico

Bach Violin Concerto A minor BWV1041  Mutter/Accardo/English Chamber Orchestra

Mozart Violin Concerto #5 A major K.219  Mutter/Mutter/London Philharmonic

Mendelssohn Violin Concerto E minor  Jansen/Chailly/Gewandhaus Leipzig

Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto D major  Belkin/Ashkenazy/New Philharmonia

Elgar Violin Concerto B minor  Chung/Solti/London Philharmonic or Bean/Groves/Royal Liverpool

Bartok Violin Concerto #1 (That's not a typo) Chung/Solti/Chicago Symphony

Havergal Brian Violin Concerto C major  Bisengaliev/Friend/BBC Scottish

Berg Violin Concerto  Chung/Solti/Chicago Symphony or Watanabe/Sinopoli/Dresden

Prokofiev Violin Concerto #2 G minor  Mullova/Previn/Royal Philharmonic


Sarge



Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Scion7 on February 25, 2012, 04:22:58 AM
Well, obviously the obvious - the Beethoven, the Brahms, the Tchaikovsky - technically and artistically just wonderful.

Bartok's first - the raw emotion of unrequited love/lust is very apparent!

Schoenberg's is interesting.  Bruch's first and the Scottish Fantasy.  Mozart's Sinfonia concertante.

Mendelssohn's in e.  Dvorak's in a.

. . . but there are so many really fine works - Hindemith, Shostakovich, Bacewicz, Spohr, ....

Of course, Bach and Vivaldi wrote magnificent "concertos" but the Baroque's definition of concerto is somewhat different than what it came to be accepted as.

... and Berg's and Schumann's and Prokofiev's and and and ...
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: kishnevi on February 25, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Quote from: The new erato on February 24, 2012, 11:45:43 PM
It's quite pretty, even extensively quoting a popular song from my hometown Tronheim, Norway.


Amazon lists two recordings.  This is the one for which the lowest price is not almost $90US. 
[asin]B000001RYB[/asin]

It would probably be easier for me to list the ones I don't like--of which Ligeti heads the list, followed by Guibaldina, I'm afraid--but those are two composers with whom I don't get along very well, so to speak.  And there are loads that I haven't heard.  Like the Milhaud and (this might sound odd, but it's true) the Stravinsky, since those are two composers with whose music I generally don't connect. 

I would draw everyone's attention to the Corigliano and Adams concertos, if they haven't heard those yet. 

My overall favoritest bestest most violinconcertoest violin concerto is probably Shostakovich 1.   
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: nico1616 on February 27, 2012, 08:46:27 AM
1) Beethoven
2) Brahms

.... miles and miles  ...

3) Shostakovich 1
4) Tchaikovsky
5) Elgar
6) Sibelius
7) Mendelssohn
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: raduneo on March 12, 2012, 07:05:54 PM
Brahms (Rachel Burton)
Tchaikovsky (Oistrakh)
Sibelius (Hahn OR Batiashvilli)
Glazunov (Fischer)
Mendelssohn
Bartok 2
Shostakovich
Dutilleux
Barber
Vasks
Schoenberg
Berg
Ligeti
Unsuk Chin (just figured this one out, it really is a worthy succesor to the Ligeti!)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: violinconcerto on March 30, 2012, 07:30:10 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 24, 2012, 11:36:14 PM
And I didn't even know that Wolf-Ferrari wrote a violin concerto. And then there are just so many more that neither of us have mentioned.


If you want a complete view who wrote what for violin and orchestra in the 20th century than check out:

www.violinconcerto.de (http://www.violinconcerto.de)

10.000 compositions by more than 6.000 composers just from the 20th century (with recording notes)!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 30, 2012, 09:16:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned...

I've always loved the Scottish Fantasy, Op. 46 by Bruch, perhaps it's not considered a concerto, but it's a lovely piece.

Otherwise, my favorites include the VCs of Berg, Stravinsky, Britten, Mendelssohn, and any by Vivaldi or Bach.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Lethevich on March 30, 2012, 02:38:50 PM
Some enduring favourites:

Mendelssohn
Vasks
Dvořák
Schoenberg
Brahms
Moeran
Stravinsky
Strauss
Sibelius
Rubbra
Bartók 2
Joachim 2
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Josquin des Prez on April 13, 2012, 11:42:55 AM
Beethoven and Brahms. Boring choices are boring, i know, but what can i say, i like those the best.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: raduneo on April 14, 2012, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 13, 2012, 11:42:55 AM
Beethoven and Brahms. Boring choices are boring, i know, but what can i say, i like those the best.

For some strange reason, I could never get into the Beethoven (I feel a bit embarassed by it :P). Hopefully it's not too late! Which recording do you reccomend? which recording is the best in your opinion? Is there a recording that is more friendly for newbies?

Thank you in advance!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: North Star on April 14, 2012, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: raduneo on April 14, 2012, 12:07:29 PM
For some strange reason, I could never get into the Beethoven (I feel a bit embarassed by it :P). Hopefully it's not too late! Which recording do you reccomend? which recording is the best in your opinion? Is there a recording that is more friendly for newbies?

Thank you in advance!

Zehetmair & Brüggen is excellent
[asin]B002N1RM5K[/asin]
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Drasko on April 14, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Stravinsky
Brahms
Berg
Korngold
Bartok 2
Bruch Scottish Fantasy
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Wanderer on March 21, 2017, 04:43:06 AM
Beethoven
Brahms
Schumann
Sibelius
Elgar

Korngold
Mendelssohn
Skalkottas
Dvořák
Bartók 2

Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev 2
Stravinsky
Szymanowski 1 & 2
Britten
Nielsen



Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2007, 01:47:02 PM
Leoš Janáček, Putování dušičky

A superb work and a great favourite.

Quote from: jwinter on June 16, 2007, 04:34:44 AM
Bach (throw a dart, they're all good)

Indeed!
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: violinconcerto on March 21, 2017, 06:21:28 AM
Peter van Onna (*1966):
Peter Graham (pseudonym of Jaroslav Šťastný-Pokorný) (*1952):
Rolf Riehm (*1937):
Dieter Kaufmann (*1941):
Peter Michael Hamel (*1947):
Marek Harris (*1961):
Frederik van Rossum (*1939):
Ivan Eröd (*1936):
Dietrich Manicke (1923-2013):
Philippe Hersant (1948):
Alojz Ajdic (*1939):
Yervand Yerkanian (*1951):
Egils Straume (*1950):
Vladimir Genin (*1958):
Bernhard Hamann (1909-1968):
Benjamin Yusupov (*1962):
Desmond Bradley (*1934):
Barry McKimm (*1941):
Ricardo Teruel (*1956):
Wolfram Wagner (*1962):
Sylvie Bodorova (*1954):
Shigeaku Saegusa (*1942):
Klaas ten Holt (*1960):
Arno Babadianian (1921-1983):
Raymond Chevreuille (1901-1976):
Jan Paul Nagel (1934-1997):
Keith Gates (1948-2007):
Harri Otsa (1926-2001):
John Ritchie (1921-2014):
Jan Meisl (*1974):
Wolfgang Strauss (*1927):
Sergio Rendine (*1954):
Nancy van de Vate (*1930):
William Russo (1928-2003):
Joachim-Dietrich Link (1925-2001):
Max Jobst (1908-1943):
Siegfried Geißler (1929-2014):
Stepan Lucky (1919-2006):
Srul Irving Glick (1934-2000)


more information here: http://www.tobias-broeker.de/recommendations/ (http://www.tobias-broeker.de/recommendations/)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Artran on March 25, 2017, 11:15:01 PM
I'm surprised, nobody mentioned violin concerto by Mieczysław Karłowicz. Especially those who like romatic era. It's very good.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2017, 06:32:51 AM
Quote from: Artran on March 25, 2017, 11:15:01 PM
I'm surprised, nobody mentioned violin concerto by Mieczysław Karłowicz. Especially those who like romatic era. It's very good.

Why are you surprised? Karlowicz doesn't really fall under the radar for many as he's one of the many byways of Late-Romanticism. Poland wasn't necessarily 'on the musical map' during the dawn of the 20th Century. If they were, then that's certainly news to me.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Artran on March 26, 2017, 08:09:14 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2017, 06:32:51 AM
Why are you surprised? Karlowicz doesn't really fall under the radar for many as he's one of the many byways of Late-Romanticism. Poland wasn't necessarily 'on the musical map' during the dawn of the 20th Century. If they were, then that's certainly news to me.

Some works mentioned here are true rarities, Karlowicz, on the other hand, is relatively well known Polish composer. He pops in my mind after Szymanowski.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2017, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: Artran on March 26, 2017, 08:09:14 AM
Some works mentioned here are true rarities, Karlowicz, on the other hand, is relatively well known Polish composer. He pops in my mind after Szymanowski.

In my opinion, Karlowicz isn't well-known. I mean there are recordings of his music available of course, but he's still off-the-beaten-track not that this matters. This said, I've heard his VC and wasn't too terribly impressed with it. I guess I was expecting something a bit more unique, but his music is certainly Straussian in terms of sound.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Artran on March 26, 2017, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2017, 09:28:35 AM
In my opinion, Karlowicz isn't well-known. I mean there are recordings of his music available of course, but he's still off-the-beaten-track not that this matters. This said, I've heard his VC and wasn't too terribly impressed with it. I guess I was expecting something a bit more unique, but his music is certainly Straussian in terms of sound.

Well, Karlowicz isn't on the same level of originality, as say, Berg, but I still find his violin concerto to be quite beautiful, with some really lovely moments. It fits nicely to the mood of fin de siècle. We also shouldn't forget he composed his VC when he was only 26.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: yekov on October 13, 2017, 02:17:31 PM
1. Brahms
2. Tchaikovsky
3. Mendelssohn
4. Bruch
5. Sibelius
6. Beethoven
7. Paganini No. 1
8. Mozart No. 5
9. Mozart No. 3
10. Berg
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on October 13, 2017, 11:49:59 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on February 25, 2012, 08:33:51 AMAmazon lists two recordings.  This is the one for which the lowest price is not almost $90US.  [asin]B000001RYB[/asin]
At their German home base, JPC.de, it's still 8 euros: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Ermanno-Wolf-Ferrari-1876-1948-Violinkonzert-op-26/hnum/7065111
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Brian on October 15, 2017, 08:07:52 AM
1. Sibelius
2. Barber
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Mendelssohn
5. Mozart No. 3
6. Prokofiev No. 2
7. Wieniawski No. 2
8. Dvorak
9. Rautavaara
10. Brahms
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: ritter on October 15, 2017, 08:32:01 AM
Let's give this a try (in alphabetical order by composer):

- Beethoven
- Berg
- Carter
- Ginastera
- C. Halffter VC #1
- Maderna
- Mozart VC #3
- Saariaho Graal théâtre
- Schoenberg
- Stravinsky

Yes, that makes 10... ;)
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: kyjo on October 15, 2017, 09:38:10 AM
My top 10, in no particular order:

Sibelius
Barber
Khachaturian
Shostakovich 1
Korngold
Prokofiev 1
Szymanowski 1
Karlowicz
Britten
Walton
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Jo498 on October 15, 2017, 09:44:06 AM
Brahms
Bach E major
Shostakovich #1
Mendelssohn e minor
Mozart #3
Prokofiev #1
Dvorak
Bartok #2
Berg
Beethoven
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 15, 2017, 08:13:43 PM
I thought I had filled this list, but I didn't (in alphabetical order):

Bach Double concerto in D minor, BWV 1043
Bartók 2
Beethoven
Brahms
Glass, Phillip 1
Janácek Putování dušičky (Pilgrimage of the soul)
Khachaturian
Korngold
Moeran
Respighi Concerto gregoriano
Saint-Saëns 3
Shostakovich 1
Sibelius
Szymanowski 1
Tchaikovsky
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: amw on October 15, 2017, 10:38:44 PM
In rough order of preference I guess

Bach BWV 1052R
Bach BWV 1042
Dvořák
Martinů No. 2
Mendelssohn
Taneyev Suite de concert
Bartók No. 2
Holliger
Prokofiev No. 2
Ligeti
Lutosławski Chain 2
Dutilleux L'arbre des songes
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Christo on October 15, 2017, 11:37:23 PM
Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2007, 01:47:02 PM
Ottorino Respighi, Concerto gregoriano
Leos Janacek, Putování dušičky
Gustav Holst, Double Concerto
Alban Berg, Dem Andenken eines Engels
Samuel Barber, Violin Concerto
Aram Khatsaturian, Violin Concerto
Dag Wirén, Violin Concerto
Havergal Brian, Violin Concerto no. 2 (the first one was lost during a train journey)
Ralph Vaughan Williams, Concerto Academico
Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Concerto funebre
Eduard Tubin, Violin Concerto no. 1
Dmitri Shostakovich, both
Otar Taktakishvilli, Violin Concerto No. 2
Peteris Vasks, Tālā Gaisma
Time for an update, after more than ten years:

I played the Alban Berg angel concerto again these days, and would no longer support its nomination, and also skipp the Holst. Instead I'm thinking of:
Ernest John Moeran, Violin concerto
Karol Szymanowski. both

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 16, 2017, 10:34:17 AM
Quote from: Christo on October 15, 2017, 11:37:23 PM
Time for an update, after more than ten years:

I played the Alban Berg angel concerto again these days, and would no longer support its nomination, and also skipp the Holst. Instead I'm thinking of:
Ernest John Moeran, Violin concerto
Karol Szymanowski. both

The Berg's famous concerto doesn't give me a great impression either.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: premont on October 16, 2017, 12:27:46 PM
To me it is some Vivaldi, Bach (particularly BWV1043), Beethoven, Mendelsohn, Nielsen and Martin.
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: André on October 16, 2017, 06:34:15 PM
Atterberg
Barber
Bartok 2
Beethoven
Berg
Brahms
Carter
Delius
Dutilleux (L'arbre des songes)
Dvorak
Elgar
Englund
Karlowicz
Lipinski (concerto militaire)
Mendelssohn
Mozart 3
Paganini 1
Penderecki 2
Pettersson 2
Reger
Schoenberg
Sibelius
Szymanowski 1
Tischchenko 2
Vaughan Williams (concerto accademico)
Vieuxtemps 4

Leaving an empty spot for Magnus Lindberg, which I'll listen to a few times before deciding.

Edit: 2 omissions/additions. I now have a firm list of "10 best".

Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: Maestro267 on October 16, 2017, 11:47:16 PM
Elgar
Tchaikovsky
Tishchenko 2
Mendelssohn
Maw
Paganini 3
Sibelius
Title: Re: Your Top Violin Concertos!
Post by: André on October 17, 2017, 07:37:51 AM
I forgot the Tischchenko (an incredible work) and the Mendelssohn! I've amended my list accordingly.