This week I will investigate the Sinfonia interna, of which I have greatly enjoyed (* nods in the direction of Louisiana *) initial clips.
I've heard a few of his chamber works, which I liked (and can't recall at the moment) and still have this DVD of Antikrist on the "to listen to" pile. (If I'm ever at home, I'll get around to it. ;D)
Several here have raved about it, and I just saw another favorable article in a recent issue of Opera News.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CJJFP2PZL._AA240_.jpg)
--Bruce
I would nominate this as the Langgaard disc everyone should own:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/513NA4D904L._SS500_.jpg)
I also have some of the DaCapo discs (some chamber music including the complete string quartets, plus symphonies 4-8). There is some good stuff in there (particularly the 6th symphony) but nothing quite as mindblowing as Music of the Spheres.
I have a disc, too, of organ works, all of them lovely.
I particularly enjoy this one:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7008223.jpg)
The First Symphony is a work of youth, grand and majestic whereas Fra Dybet, a late work, is a deeply felt Requiem prayer. The performances are exemplary and the recording of the massive forces impressive.
Quote from: edward on April 25, 2007, 11:56:32 AM
I would nominate this as the Langgaard disc everyone should own:
I second that!
John Frandsen conducted it also, with the same orchestra, but somehow the Russian seems to be catching the atmosphere better than the Dane.
Quote from: bhodges on April 25, 2007, 11:49:16 AM
have this DVD of Antikrist on the "to listen to" pile.
--Bruce
Bruce, leave it there! 8) In fact maybe shift it to the very bottom. I have tried three times now to know what it is all about, without success. Of course if want to evaluate strictly the musical aspect of it, the technical side, you might like it. Maybe I should just listen to it and ignore the action. :-\
What did
Opera News say about it? In favour or thumbs down?
Has anyone heard the later symphonies? I have 1, 4, 5 and 6 and enjoy all of them. I wonder if the rest of the batch (as there are quite a few left) are worth investigating.
Yes, I have all sixteen of them. No. 7 to 16 conducted by Ilya Stupel the Anton Rubinstein PO. I am a big fan of Langgaard so my judgement might be a bit biased. In the beginning I had trouble identifying which number it was I was hearing when I played them at random. I am still learning, but I enjoy this learning process. I think one has to be really dedicated to Langgaard to become thoroughly acquainted with all 16.
Interspersing them with any of his other works makes this task easier. One of my favorite 'entertainments' in between his symphonies is his Insectarium piano composition! 8)
Quote from: CS on April 25, 2007, 01:54:31 PM
Has anyone heard the later symphonies? I have 1, 4, 5 and 6 and enjoy all of them. I wonder if the rest of the batch (as there are quite a few left) are worth investigating.
CS
If you have 4 6 and Music of the spheres IMHO those are his best pieces, investigating maybe his tenth and his string quartets.....
He's one of my favourites. CD below contains his finest music (that I'm aware of). Symphony No 4 is his greatest (IMHO).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Langgaard-Orchestral-Works-Rued/dp/B00005AG71/ref=pd_bowtega_3/026-0945451-0042845?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177571978&sr=1-3
Quote from: uffeviking on April 25, 2007, 01:35:08 PM
Bruce, leave it there! 8) In fact maybe shift it to the very bottom. I have tried three times now to know what it is all about, without success. Of course if want to evaluate strictly the musical aspect of it, the technical side, you might like it. Maybe I should just listen to it and ignore the action. :-\
What did Opera News say about it? In favour or thumbs down?
Oh sorry, Lis, I thought you liked it!? ??? (Maybe I mis-remembered.)
Opera News had quite the glowing review, perhaps surprisingly. It was their featured recording, at the beginning of their reviews section, and they liked the cast, sets -- everything -- although it definitely sounds a bit unconventional. But the comments made me even more eager to see it.
--Bruce
You and Opera News convinced me I have to watch Antikrist again. Either I have tried too hard to understand it, or not hard enough. Maybe a Christian belief or involvement in any organised god related club might help! :-\
I did like the music and I loved the voices, I even admired the set and acting, but it's the complex meaning I didn't get. You watch it, Luv, and then enlighten me! ;D
I have all the symphonies. While not remembering every little detail right now, I do remember my favorites are among the middle ones. His later ones are the ones that are the weakest in my view.
Overall, his best work hands down is still Music of the Spheres. If you are just going to get 3 CDs, get the Music of the Spheres, and symphonies 3 through 6 (or thereabout).
Back to Antikrist, my copy arrived from Amazon yesterday:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D4C8QABAL._AA240_.jpg)
On the Amazon website it says it is a hybrid-SACD but on the actual CD set it only says SACD (you can sort of see it in the image). So is it hybrid or not??? I don't have a SACD player and I don't want to open it to find out. At least if it is not hybrid I can return it.
Compared my issue with the one you posted and the only difference I see is an icon on the upper left hand side Cubus. On the back there is not mention of SACD or hybrid-SACD, only that it is NTSC compatible.
I thought SACD discs can be played on regular machines also, wrong? ???
Quote from: uffeviking on April 27, 2007, 08:34:29 AM
Compared my issue with the one you posted and the only difference I see is an icon on the upper left hand side Cubus. On the back there is not mention of SACD or hybrid-SACD, only that it is NTSC compatible.
I thought SACD discs can be played on regular machines also, wrong? ???
Oh, you have the DVD:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CJJFP2PZL._AA240_.jpg)
and I have some incarnation of the CD:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D4C8QABAL._AA240_.jpg)
Only hybrid-SACDs play on regular CD players (I think). If you get just a SACD it only plays on a SACD player (again, I think).
Spent some time reviewing much of the orchestral Langgaard that I have: Music of the Spheres and symphonies 4-8 (including both versions of the 5th).
Music of the Spheres is certainly the mindblowing standout, but the 4th and 6th symphonies are both very strong pieces and would probably be better known but for Nielsen's pre-eminence.
It's amazing to think that Langgaard had written these last three works by his mid-twenties--surely amongst the most accomplished music written by a composer in his 20s in this century. By all rights he should have developed into a major figure: what went wrong?
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 27, 2007, 08:39:38 AM
Only hybrid-SACDs play on regular CD players. If you get just a SACD it only plays on a SACD player.
Correct. Hybrid-SACDs (almost the totality of titles currently available, apart from some releases from the early days of the format) have an extra CD layer that enables them to be played on CD players. Anyhow, the nature of the disc (hybrid or not) is always mentioned on the cover.
Langgaard had some odd fans...
http://www.langgaard.dk/intro/ednanye.htm
:D
Quote from: Corey on August 27, 2007, 07:54:39 AM
Langgaard had some odd fans...
http://www.langgaard.dk/intro/ednanye.htm
:D
:o Astonishing...I would never have expected this person to be a fan of Langgaard... ;D
Meanwhile, Steve Smith had an interesting piece on the composer in yesterday's
New York Times, via his blog:
http://nightafternight.blogs.com/night_after_night/2007/08/internal-exile.html
--Bruce
I notice you avoided saying "man" or "woman." ;D
As for Langgaard, his profile in my mind grows with each recording I hear. I intend on getting his entire discography on DaCapo.
Quote from: Corey on August 27, 2007, 12:34:14 PM
I notice you avoided saying "man" or "woman." ;D
;D
--Bruce
Quote from: Corey on August 27, 2007, 12:34:14 PM
As for Langgaard, his profile in my mind grows with each recording I hear. I intend on getting his entire discography on DaCapo.
That seems to me a worthwhile ambition.
I want to hear more!
Quote from: uffeviking on April 27, 2007, 06:40:40 AM
You and Opera News convinced me I have to watch Antikrist again. Either I have tried too hard to understand it, or not hard enough. Maybe a Christian belief or involvement in any organised god related club might help! :-\
I did like the music and I loved the voices, I even admired the set and acting, but it's the complex meaning I didn't get. You watch it, Luv, and then enlighten me! ;D
I think Langgård wrote the libratto himself. When it comes to surrealistic text, I use to read the words litterally, that always makes perfectly sence.
Apparently he couldn't stand the attention given to Carl Nielsen's music in Denmark (even though there is, I think, a strong Nielsen influence in some works, like Symphony No 4, which is my favourite. I rather like his sarcastic piece "Carl Nielsen; our great composer", a short choral extract designed to be repeated "throughout eternity" :o
Symphony No.4, The Music of the Spheres and The End of Time are all excellent. Chandos has recorded all of them.
If you have the odd ten minutes or so to spare (for that's about as long as it takes), have a listen to Symphony No.11 "Ixion". It's a great piece of orchestral flamboyancy but my lack of music theory knowledge prevents from knowing how on earth it qualifies as a symphony!
Quote from: edward on April 27, 2007, 09:59:01 AM
Spent some time reviewing much of the orchestral Langgaard that I have: Music of the Spheres and symphonies 4-8 (including both versions of the 5th).
Music of the Spheres is certainly the mindblowing standout, but the 4th and 6th symphonies are both very strong pieces and would probably be better known but for Nielsen's pre-eminence.
It's amazing to think that Langgaard had written these last three works by his mid-twenties--surely amongst the most accomplished music written by a composer in his 20s in this century. By all rights he should have developed into a major figure: what went wrong?
Just now listening to
Music of the Spheres--what a piece! I found this recording completely by accident: John Frandsen with the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra, on Danacord, from 1989. (It's a live performance from March 20, 1980.) "Mindblowing" is absolutely right, and how is it that this piece was written in 1918? :o I've heard a few works by Langgaard but nothing like this.
--Bruce
Quote from: vandermolen on December 27, 2007, 02:28:04 PM
Apparently he couldn't stand the attention given to Carl Nielsen's music in Denmark (even though there is, I think, a strong Nielsen influence in some works, like Symphony No 4, which is my favourite. I rather like his sarcastic piece "Carl Nielsen; our great composer", a short choral extract designed to be repeated "throughout eternity" :o
LOL :D
Quote from: just josh on February 24, 2008, 02:17:01 PM
LOL :D
You can find "Carl Nielsen, Our Great Composer" here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Langgaard-End-Time-Rued/dp/B00003XB24/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1204454703&sr=1-19
So I am willing to take the plunge on this composer, but I know nothing about him. I added Music of the Sphere's to my wishlist. Which recording is best? Which symphony cycle should I invest in?
Quote from: Catison on October 06, 2008, 03:59:41 AM
So I am willing to take the plunge on this composer, but I know nothing about him. I added Music of the Sphere's to my wishlist. Which recording is best? Which symphony cycle should I invest in?
I would start with Neeme Jarvi's Chandos recording of symphonies 4-6 on a single CD. A great disc.
!
Great news for Langgaard fans:
http://www.dacapo-records.dk/?page=catalogue&id=7560&setlanguage=en
RUED LANGGAARD
The Symphonies
Danish National Choir
Danish National Vocal Ensemble
Danish National Symphony Orchestra
Thomas Dausgaard, conductor
With his symphonies the Danish composer Rued Langgaard offered 16 vastly different versions of what a symphony can be. His captivating, complex genius made room for all conceivable idioms and a wealth of styles ranging from the grandiosely Late Romantic to the purest Absurdism. This box is the first collected recording of Langgaard's 16 symphonies based on the critical edition of the scores; recordings which demonstrate, with spectacular sound quality, Langgaards masterly grasp of the orchestra and his ecstatic view of art: "Mr. Dausgaard's keen advocacy elicits polished, persuasive accounts that live up to Langgaard's motto: 'Long Live Beauty'", wrote The New York Times.
Price is set at 499 Krone (~$88). I may now have an excuse to finally explore this composer.
Very nice, Corey!
. . . and in my case, would make just for one disc of redundancy.
Haven´t listened to any Langgård for quite a while. Now when I go to this thread, I get inspired to get some more cd´s. :)
Quote from: Corey on January 14, 2009, 08:00:12 AM
Great news for Langgaard fans: Symphony Box Set (http://www.dacapo-records.dk/?page=catalogue&id=7560&setlanguage=en)
RUED LANGGAARD - The Symphonies; Danish National Choir; Danish National Vocal Ensemble; Danish National Symphony Orchestra - Thomas Dausgaard, conductor
Price is set at 499 Krone (~$88). I may now have an excuse to finally explore this composer.
Thanks,
Corey - just yesterday, I added the disc below to my wishlist (based on reading some comparisons w/ Prokofiev in the liner notes of a new symphony set of the latters that I was listening to on Sunday) - will be my first
Langgaard experience but the reviews & comments on this recording sound great! Also, will want to at least try his symphonies, so that 'new' box set could be just the choice! Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513NA4D904L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Music of the Spheres is just simply wonderful music. I have long enjoyed this off beat composer and his quirky symphonies.
In my humble opinion, Symphony # 6 "Det himmelrivende" (Heaven Storming) has simply the best ending of any symphonic work in the repertoire. Just so over the top that it works and is endlessly fascinating.
Quote from: Corey on January 14, 2009, 08:00:12 AM
!
Great news for Langgaard fans:
http://www.dacapo-records.dk/?page=catalogue&id=7560&setlanguage=en
RUED LANGGAARD
The Symphonies
Danish National Choir
Danish National Vocal Ensemble
Danish National Symphony Orchestra
Thomas Dausgaard, conductor
With his symphonies the Danish composer Rued Langgaard offered 16 vastly different versions of what a symphony can be. His captivating, complex genius made room for all conceivable idioms and a wealth of styles ranging from the grandiosely Late Romantic to the purest Absurdism. This box is the first collected recording of Langgaard's 16 symphonies based on the critical edition of the scores; recordings which demonstrate, with spectacular sound quality, Langgaards masterly grasp of the orchestra and his ecstatic view of art: "Mr. Dausgaard's keen advocacy elicits polished, persuasive accounts that live up to Langgaard's motto: 'Long Live Beauty'", wrote The New York Times.
Price is set at 499 Krone (~$88). I may now have an excuse to finally explore this composer.
Thanks, Corey (better late than never).
With so much variety it's difficult to say which symphonies I like best (apart from the astonishing
Music of the Spheres, of course). I love them all. I think Nos. 4, 6, 10 and 16 are the most cogent. But I always return to 2, 3, 9, 13, 14, too...
Impossible exercise! ;D
The score of Music of the Spheres is available on IMSLP at
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Langgaard%2C_Rud_Immanuel
Quote from: Dax on February 11, 2009, 03:22:07 AM
The score of Music of the Spheres is available on IMSLP at
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Langgaard%2C_Rud_Immanuel
Thanks for this notification! When I checked last month, the pdf couldn't yet be downloaded.
Quote from: Dax on February 11, 2009, 03:22:07 AM
The score of Music of the Spheres is available on IMSLP at
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Langgaard%2C_Rud_Immanuel
Most yummy!
Decided the thread title should be lyrical rather than lair-like.
Quote from: Jezetha on February 11, 2009, 04:16:17 AM
Thanks for this notification! When I checked last month, the pdf couldn't yet be downloaded.
If you print it out, try just the first page of the score for starters at 80% size to check that the whole page fits on A4.
Quote from: leggiero on February 11, 2009, 05:39:12 AM
Decided the thread title should be lyrical rather than lair-like.
Yes, it's a real improvement, more in Langgaard's spirit. :)
Bragging time: I have long been a fan and supporter of this much neglected but talented composer - maybe you find more about him and me in the old forum file 0:) - but please to not overlook some of his other work like the whimsical and entertaining Insectarium piano piece. I think the disc is still available and contains six piano works.
Of course there is his opera Antichrist, which has been discussed at length in the old forum also. I still don't understand it, but the music is beautiful! :)
Checked Arkiv, they have Insektarium:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=6822&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=112721
Quote from: Brünnhilde forever on February 11, 2009, 07:04:15 AM
Bragging time: I have long been a fan and supporter of this much neglected but talented composer - maybe you find more about him and me in the old forum file 0:) - but please to not overlook some of his other work like the whimsical and entertaining Insectarium piano piece. I think the disc is still available and contains six piano works.
Of course there is his opera Antichrist, which has been discussed at length in the old forum also. I still don't understand it, but the music is beautiful! :)
Hojotoho, Brünnhild! I applaud your advocacy of L.'s piano music. Yes, you can overlook it. I have downloaded quite a lot of piano pieces from emusic with the most wonderfully evocative names (the man had a genius for titles), like
Flame Chambers,
Shadow Life,
Madness Fantasy and
Music of the Abyss... And don't forget that enormous organ work
Messis (2 hours long)!
Quote from: Jezetha on February 11, 2009, 07:48:38 AM
... And don't forget that enormous organ work Messis (2 hours long)!
Alas! I
had forgotten it! And I very much enjoy the disc I have of shorter organ pieces.
Quote from: Brünnhilde forever on February 11, 2009, 07:04:15 AM
the whimsical and entertaining Insectarium piano piece
. . . or set of pieces. He probably achieved a first in knocking the piano in
Death watch beetle (geddit?). Unless anyone knows an earlier example?
Just to hear the vocal Langgaard, this ravishing, unforgettable song from the Chandos Music of the Spheres CD:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jmwbjtoi3ik/Gitta_Maria_Sjoberg_LANGGAARD_Music_of_the_Spheres__4_Tone_Pictures_16_4_Tone_Pictures_No_1_Likewords_for_a_summer_s_day_saga.mp3
Why don't I warm to Langgaard? :( :(
I have a question which may seem kind of silly:
From looking over his cycle and its milestones, Langgaard invites comparison to Havergal Brian. Beginning with a precocious and enormous first symphony, they both honed and refined their style down to the barest of essentials (sometimes outright micro-symphonies). Both were completely ignored during their later careers, and seemingly willfully inaccessable at times in their compositional process. But from the samples I have heard so far, Langgaard seems also to have retained far more Romanticism than Brian. If Brian's 1st was an evolution from Mahler, and then a plunge into outright modernism (if still through tonal means), Langgaard appears to have refined his Straussian influences after the 1st, but perhaps doesn't go as far? What would be the key differences between the two, or are there more apt composers to compare him to?
I ask because I am considering the DaCapo box, but having never heard a full Langgaard symphony, it would be a risky purchase - but one that I feel I will almost inevitably enjoy if I can tick enough "this sounds promising" boxes...
Quote from: Lethe on May 01, 2009, 05:20:19 AM
I have a question which may seem kind of silly:
From looking over his cycle and its milestones, Langgaard invites comparison to Havergal Brian. Beginning with a precocious and enormous first symphony, they both honed and refined their style down to the barest of essentials (sometimes outright micro-symphonies). Both were completely ignored during their later careers, and seemingly willfully inaccessable at times in their compositional process. But from the samples I have heard so far, Langgaard seems also to have retained far more Romanticism than Brian. If Brian's 1st was an evolution from Mahler, and then a plunge into outright modernism (if still through tonal means), Langgaard appears to have refined his Straussian influences after the 1st, but perhaps doesn't go as far? What would be the key differences between the two, or are there more apt composers to compare him to?
I ask because I am considering the DaCapo box, but having never heard a full Langgaard symphony, it would be a risky purchase - but one that I feel I will almost inevitably enjoy if I can tick enough "this sounds promising" boxes...
There is a lot of truth and good sense in what you say :) But......I don't think that Havergal Brian was the half-daft eccentric that Langgaard undoubtedly was. Ultimately I believe that Brian is a far, far better composer than Langgaard. But....again, I am not the right person to give you a more balanced assessment since (as I remarked above) I do not really warm to Langgaard.
The best person for this is Johan(Jezetha) who loves both composers :)
As someone who's something of an agnostic over both composers, I'd tend to agree with those who note similarities. In the works of theirs that I have found most compelling (Langgaard's 4th & 6th; Brian's 8th & 9th) there is a lot of use of small motifs and what might be very loosely termed variation thereof to generate extremely wide-ranging, superficially episodic single-movement structures. This structural use of very short motifs is what makes these works hold together for me and places them far above other, similar works.
Other works I've tended to find somewhat less memorable--but there's enough in both composers that I will return to them.
Dundonnell is right - perhaps I am best placed to explain the similarities and differences between Brian and Langgaard, as I love them both (with Delius as the third man in the triumvirate).
Yes, Langgaard is more of a 'crank' than Brian. This was the result of his upbringing (Theosophy, iirc). He inherited an ultra-Romantic view of music (and the composer) as the conduit of a higher truth. Very Schopenhauerian. In Brian there is none of that, although he exemplifies the cliché of the lonely, visionary genius perfectly, of course.
What about the music, then? There is no real 'progress' in Langgaard. If you like Symphony No 1 you'll like Symphony No. 16, because stylistically there isn't much of a difference, though the latter is far more mature (and really masterly). The point of Langgaard is: his strengths and weaknesses, his reactionary and progressive tendencies sit side by side. There are beauties in every symphony, beauties I wouldn't have missed for the world. But don't look for Beethovenian logic, though every Langgaard 'hangs together'. Langgaard's most 'cogent' symphonies (IMO) are 4, 6, 10, 13 and 16. No. 1 is sprawling but beautiful, 2 is exciting and colourful - Dausgaard has recorded the earlier version of the work, in 3 movements, which is fascinating because the music suddenly turns into a 'Music of the Spheres' world. But I prefer the later version (with Stupel). No. 3 is a sort of piano concerto, and a wonderful work. No. 5 is rather dry and distant, but it has its moments. Nos 7, 8 and 9 are rather nationalistic and very 19th century. But I have a (large) soft spot for the Ninth. Symphonies 11 and 12 are very short - the 11th uses a recurring motif (Wheel of Ixion) obsessively, and that's that (but with 4 Wagner tubas...) and the 12th is over before you know it, but in a very entertaining way ('the composer explodes' it reads in the score - end of symphony). No. 14 is another favourite of mine, a suite of wonderful movements. No. 15 is in two movements, the first is Angst-ridden and very powerful, the second a setting of a poem. This is the one Langgaard work I don't 'get' as a symphony, because both movements could do without each other.
Okay, that's what I think of Langgaard. Brian is a different kettle of fish, more aggressive, and humourous, and 'objective'. I agree with Dundonnell that Brian probably is the greater composer, because in his best works there is a cogency and inexorability which make them into true 'symphonies'. Langgaard is more rhapsodic. But - I like both in equal measure, which says something about me, I suppose...
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 11, 2009, 01:16:31 PM
Why don't I warm to Langgaard? :( :(
You're a Langgaard Laggard.
Quote from: Daverz on May 01, 2009, 11:21:36 PM
You're a Langgaard Laggard.
;D
(But I don't think Colin will ever warm to Langgaard. Question of temperament, I suppose. Just as he doesn't like the incomparable Delius.)
Well, he likes Henning, so there is good in his ear 8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 02, 2009, 04:19:57 AM
Well, he likes Henning, so there is good in his ear 8)
Agreed, that's one saving grace (among many more, I hasten to add). ;)
Indeed, our Colin is a chap of many virtues!
Oh, hello!........I am being talked about it seems :)
I am tempted to list my entire collection of Langgaard symphonies and my substantial collection of the music of Fred. Delius.....but I won't because you will just say that (since I am a 'mad completist') that proves nothing at all about my musical taste ;D
Taste will be, to some extent at least, a reflection of temperament. I very much doubt if I shall ever take to Delius-there is not enough 'sinew and bone' in the music. I get easily bored by inactivity. I cannot lie back on a little boat lazily drifting down a river or stretch out on a chair in a garden and snooze to the sound of the bees and the smell of the flowers.
Langgaard stands more chance with me. But there is a sense of sheer over-indulgence in romantic excess which I find off-putting. However...I am determined to give him another go. I shall not give up on old Rued(even if he was sooooo rude to my beloved Carl Nielsen ;D)
And......thank you for your exceptionally kind words, my friends :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 04:55:00 AM
Langgaard stands more chance with me. But there is a sense of sheer over-indulgence in romantic excess which I find off-putting. However...I am determined to give him another go. I shall not give up on old Rued(even if he was sooooo rude to my beloved Carl Nielsen ;D)
Much as I love
Nielsen, I cannot much hold that against
Langgaard . . . so much in life goes amiss.
Put like that, 'by the letter',
Colin, and I probably shouldn't much like
Langgaard, either. Somehow, rich & Romantified though it is, the music has a profile and texture that grab me.
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 04:55:00 AM
Taste will be, to some extent at least, a reflection of temperament. I very much doubt if I shall ever take to Delius-there is not enough 'sinew and bone' in the music. I get easily bored by inactivity. I cannot lie back on a little boat lazily drifting down a river or stretch out on a chair in a garden and snooze to the sound of the bees and the smell of the flowers.
Langgaard stands more chance with me. But there is a sense of sheer over-indulgence in romantic excess which I find off-putting. However...I am determined to give him another go. I shall not give up on old Rued(even if he was sooooo rude to my beloved Carl Nielsen ;D)
And......thank you for your exceptionally kind words, my friends :)
Enjoy them while you can, Colin, because now I am taking you to task... That Delius lacks 'sinew and bone' is a cliché. He isn't always lazily enjoying Nature, partaking of wine or hymning the fairer sex... Listen to the
Requiem, or the
Songs of Farewell. I know you have them - for the former, take the Meredith Davies, for the latter Sargent. Both works are extremely inspired, no note is wasted, they have the beauty and the hardness of diamonds. Whenever I listen to the
Songs of Farewell I can hardly believe what I'm hearing, those harmonies transfix me. Of course, every person reacts differently. But there is real power and real passion there, and no emasculation.
If you'll give old rude Rued a try: the 4th, the 6th, the 9th, the 10th and the 16th are all quite 'disciplined'. But that's my view, of course...
I shall obey your command ;D
Yay, perfect description - thanks, Jezetha. He is starting to sound almost Lisztian in the potential structural difficulties. And I like Liszt's tone poems a lot... 0:)
I must admit, Brian is a composer that I would not be surprised if I still do not fully "get" for the next decade or two. I've put a lot into listening to him over the past five years or so, but it's been difficult to say the least. Even Xenakis came more easily. But there is so much there that the music demands that I keep listening - and he is always rewarding to do that with, even if a full understanding remains elusive.
Langgaard, on the other hand - with a sympathetic ear - sounds potentially a lot easier to enjoy, regardless of whether there is as much to have to "understand" embedded in the music or not (from the opinion of even a big fan like Jezetha - probably not). I have been directed towards some digital copies of the Stupel recordings, so if I enjoy these, I will splash out on the Dausgaard box - it should be fun to compare the recordings side to side.
Edit: It is proving fun to translate the Danish titles and movements into logical sounding phrases. The Danacord recordings are slightly autistically translated - Løvfald to Leaf-Fall, for example, despite no phrase of that nature existing in English. Aside from this fun, Danacord and Dacapo offer two contradictory translations for the title of No.13 - 'Faithlessness' and 'Belief in Wonders' respectively. Which is considered the more ideal?
Quote from: Lethe on May 02, 2009, 08:10:02 AM
Yay, perfect description - thanks, Jezetha. He is starting to sound almost Lisztian in the potential structural difficulties. And I like Liszt's tone poems a lot... 0:)
I must admit, Brian is a composer that I would not be surprised if I still do not fully "get" for the next decade or two. I've put a lot into listening to him over the past five years or so, but it's been difficult to say the least. Even Xenakis came more easily. But there is so much there that the music demands that I keep listening - and he is always rewarding to do that with, even if a full understanding remains elusive.
Langgaard, on the other hand - with a sympathetic ear - sounds potentially a lot easier to enjoy, regardless of whether there is as much to have to "understand" embedded in the music or not (from the opinion of even a big fan like Jezetha - probably not). I have been directed towards some digital copies of the Stupel recordings, so if I enjoy these, I will splash out on the Dausgaard box - it should be fun to compare the recordings side to side.
Edit: It is proving fun to translate the Danish titles and movements into logical sounding phrases. The Danacord recordings are slightly autistically translated - Løvfald to Leaf-Fall, for example, despite no phrase of that nature existing in English. Aside from this fun, Danacord and Dacapo offer two contradictory translations for the title of No.13 - 'Faithlessness' and 'Belief in Wonders' respectively. Which is considered the more ideal?
Nice post, Lethe, and thanks for the compliment. I sympathise with your Brianic difficulties. Because it's so long ago, I have almost forgotten how impenetrable some of Brian's later symphonies initially sounded. I had to work very hard to break their crusty exterior. My description of No. 21, for instance, was 'a slab of concrete'. When I listen to it now, I encounter no problem whatsoever. I can even whistle or sing along with the music... So - persevere and you will be rewarded.
Re Langgaard - he is the 'easier' composer of the two, structurally and stylistically. That title of No. 13, "Undertro", I have also seen translated as 'Superstition'...
Having heard the first and tenth symphonies, I must say that I do agree with the MusicWeb reviewer who astutely compared Langgaard's cycle to the village of Portmeirion in Wales. A picture should be enough to reveal why :D
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1457/portmeirion31.jpg)
Considering the age of the composer at the time of writing, the first symphony is astoundingly masterful. Almost worth trying to argue it as a minor masterpiece, but it would perhaps be futile to do so anyway. To compare to other symphonies of this nature that I have recently heard, it is far less intense or richly concentrated than the Alpine Symphony, less explicitily national than Zweers' third, but more conventionally symphonic than both - the Alpine Symphony resembling a tone poem, and the Zweers resembling a set of them (along the lines of Má Vlast). It doesn't compare at all to Brian's 1st, as it lacks that works all-encompassing Mahlerian metaphysical intent. Another pleasant surprise is it not sounding like a carbon copy of one or two other composers. The influences have been merged perfectly, and as a result sounds like a fully personal statement, rather than an essay in the style of a master composer. Sometimes the facade does drop slightly, and I find the fourth movement sounding overly familiar, perhaps with little traces of Tchaikovsky and Mahler showing through the paintwork...
Structurally it hangs together surprisingly well, and it has a melodic richness which successfully avoids accusations of note-spinning, and the restraint in the decision to seperate the large first and final movements with three smaller central ones does wonders for its contrast, and also keeps the mind from wandering in what could've become an over the top series of attempts to out-do the previous movement (which I felt was a problem with the Zweers - all movements of a massive size). The orchestration is the most staggering aspect of it, as I don't think that it could be improved upon at all - this is what elevates this symphony from a fine curiosity to a real contender. I've used words to the effect of "surprise(d)" multiple times already, and that is my key feeling from hearing this. Surprised that it isn't bad -- rather fine, even. And most of all surprised that I am going to relisten to it some time in the near future. That is a key difference between "interesting" and "good" music :P A super successful first!
No.10 is almost funny in how different it is and I feel more at home here. Formally it is very strong, and its mood is also exceptionally controlled. It has a perfect arc in the way Pettersson is able to pull off with his one movement works, and I can see myself playing this a lot. Superb atmosphere coupled to some intriguing writing. Fully tonal, but far less conventionally Romantic than the 1st.
Excellent, Sarah.
Yes, that First is quite miraculous in its maturity. The second movement (Mountain Flora) is one of my all-time Langgaard favourites (it seems to presage Bernard Herrmann (Psycho)).
The Tenth is quite inexhaustible. I have listened to it many times, and it always seems bigger and longer than it actually is in duration.
(Btw, listening to Delius songs. Wine Roses... ah!)
I notice that Langgaard has been expelled completely from the latest edition(2009) of the Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music.
Not a single cd of his music is included.
This is another example of Robert Layton's dislikes in action. Layton is one of the 4 editors of the Guide. Layton is an expert on Scandinavian music and there are many composers from that part of the world for whom he has huge respect and has done a lot of good work in bringing these composers to the attention of the public. He was an early admirer of Tubin, for example. Allan Pettersson and Rued Langgaard are not however amongst those composers.
Let me say quite clearly that I think that this is a mistake. To a considerable extent an editor will be drawn to include those composers he admires in such a guide but he should be cautious about the exclusion of those others.
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 03:51:35 PM
I notice that Langgaard has been expelled completely from the latest edition(2009) of the Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music. Not a single cd of his music is included.
This is another example of Robert Layton's dislikes in action.
Ouch!
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 03:51:35 PM
I notice that Langgaard has been expelled completely from the latest edition(2009) of the Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music.
Not a single cd of his music is included.
This is another example of Robert Layton's dislikes in action. Layton is one of the 4 editors of the Guide. Layton is an expert on Scandinavian music and there are many composers from that part of the world for whom he has huge respect and has done a lot of good work in bringing these composers to the attention of the public. He was an early admirer of Tubin, for example. Allan Pettersson and Rued Langgaard are not however amongst those composers.
Let me say quite clearly that I think that this is a mistake. To a considerable extent an editor will be drawn to include those composers he admires in such a guide but he should be cautious about the exclusion of those others.
I agree. I have great respect for Robert Layton, but this is more than disappointing. Langgaard should certainly have been included, if only for his
Music of the Spheres, one of the most visionary pieces in 20th century music.
Quote from: Jezetha on May 02, 2009, 10:03:19 PM
I agree. I have great respect for Robert Layton, but this is more than disappointing. Langgaard should certainly have been included, if only for his Music of the Spheres, one of the most visionary pieces in 20th century music.
Me too. Robert Layton also wrote the notes for the Lyrita CD containing Rubbra's Third and Fourth Symphony. I remember having a letter printed in Gramophone or IRR in which I disagreed with his assessment that the Fourth Symphony bears no relation to the times of its composition (World War Two) - I pointed out that I agreed with the Radio 3 announcer, who having played the Symphony suggested that the end spoke of 'blood, toil,tears and sweat' - which rang more true to me. As for Layton's criticism for the great Allan Pettersson for indulging in 'rampant self-pity' - what's wrong with that? I do it all the time myself ;D
Yes, Langgaard should be in the record guide - especially for symphonies 4-6 and 10 and The Music of the Spheres'.
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 03:51:35 PM
I notice that Langgaard has been expelled completely from the latest edition(2009) of the Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music.
Not a single cd of his music is included.
I never liked that rag of a guide anyway.
Quote from: Jezetha on May 02, 2009, 05:14:07 AM
Listen to the Requiem, or the Songs of Farewell. ... for the former, take the Meredith Davies, for the latter Sargent.
Thanks for mentioning the Requiem, a work I don't have but which sounds utterly delightful (a strange thing to say for a Requiem). The only readily available rendition I can find, however, is the one on Chandos coupled with the Mass of Life. How do you like that one?
Quote from: Wanderer on May 02, 2009, 11:41:02 PM
Thanks for mentioning the Requiem, a work I don't have but which sounds utterly delightful (a strange thing to say for a Requiem). The only readily available rendition I can find, however, is the one on Chandos coupled with the Mass of Life. How do you like that one?
Hickox does a fine job, and the choir is excellent too. But I don't like the male soloist, whose voice I find a bit too grainy. Still, the Requiem really comes through as the fine work it undoubtedly is.
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2009, 05:35:43 AM
I shall obey your command ;D
Me too finds Delius boring (to put it perhaps too strongly). I understand what Jezetha is saying, I always suspect there is something more there lurking under the surface, and I end up waiting for it to resurface, and then wait some more, but it too seldom does. I know full well that it often is a matter of persistence in listening, but there is too much other exciting music lying there to be explore, so I seldom come around to it. But who knows, perhaps I'll try the cello concerto again, I remember once thinking that this was a work worth persevering.
Quote from: erato on May 03, 2009, 12:53:14 AM
Me too finds Delius boring (to put it perhaps too strongly). I understand what Jezetha is saying, I always suspect there is something more there lurking under the surface, and I end up waiting for it to resurface, and then wait some more, but it too seldom does. I know full well that it often is a matter of persistence in listening, but there is too much other exciting music lying there to be explore, so I seldom come around to it. But who knows, perhaps I'll try the cello concerto again, I remember once thinking that thos was a work worthe persevering.
You know, Erato, with Delius the surface IS the depth (Nietzsche, 'Die Oberfläche ist die Tiefe'). If you're waiting for something to surface, you're missing the music... Delius is atmosphere, poetry, beauty of sound. Though to some he may be meandering, he mostly is very controlled. There
is structure to his musings and evocations.
Some people respond to Delius, many others don't. I belong to those who have been touched by him. And he will stay with me until I die.
[This is turning into a Delius thread...]
Quote from: Jezetha on May 03, 2009, 01:13:50 AM
You know, Erato, with Delius the surface IS the depth (Nietzsche, 'Die Oberfläche ist die Tiefe'). If you're waiting for something to surface, you're missing the music... Delius is atmosphere, poetry, beauty of sound. Though to some he may be meandering, he mostly is very controlled. There is structure to his musings and evocations.
Some people respond to Delius, many others don't. I belong to those who have been touched by him. And he will stay with me until I die.
[This is turning into a Delius thread...]
Perhaps surface is not enough for me, at least not in large structures (I can be charmed by 5 minute miniatures too). Reminds me of mye response in a thread on Brilliants Tallis disc, that I find the music (generally) simply too beautiful and that it needs something more. Or maybe I'm just eaasily bored.
Is there a reason for the immediate openings of no.7 and 13 sounding the same? I thought I was listening to the wrong thing at first :D
Quote from: Lethe on May 03, 2009, 10:53:04 AM
Is there a reason for the immediate openings of no.7 and 13 sounding the same? I thought I was listening to the wrong thing at first :D
The reason is simple: Langgaard often reworked his music. Symphonies 7 and 13 share the same main idea, but they lead to very different works. It is as if Langgaard discovered more potential in that opening theme of the Seventh and got inspired to do something wholly different with it. (No. 13 is the better work, IMO.)
Thanks, this sounds interesting - when I can stomach that theme again (:P) I'll play them both in a row.
Quote from: Lethe on May 03, 2009, 11:49:18 AM
Thanks, this sounds interesting - when I can stomach that theme again (:P) I'll play them both in a row.
;D I know what you mean...
(Must get that Dausgaard box . . . .)
Re: Delius
I am not a great fan but the very end of his Requiem is deeply moving IMO.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 03, 2009, 02:56:19 PM
Re: Delius
I am not a great fan but the very end of his Requiem is deeply moving IMO.
It is. But also uplifting, I find. The wheel of life and death...
I know that this thread is (or should be!) about Langgaard but I would just like to put on record that I do like 'Paris: The Song of a Great City'. :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 03, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
I know that this thread is (or should be!) about Langgaard but I would just like to put on record that I do like 'Paris: The Song of a Great City'. :)
You're getting there, Colin, you're getting there. 'Paris' - exuberance and introspection in a perfect balance. It's 'early' Delius, but a mature work all the same.
Jezetha (and others),
Where do you suggest one should begin in exploring Langgaard (and Brian, now that he has come up).
Incidentally, I am not at all turned off by massive orchestration/choirs/organs...the bigger the better (though the more subtle is not at all lost on me either). :)
Quote from: Wilhelm Richard on May 03, 2009, 05:35:25 PM
Jezetha (and others),
Where do you suggest one should begin in exploring Langgaard (and Brian, now that he has come up).
Incidentally, I am not at all turned off by massive orchestration/choirs/organs...the bigger the better (though the more subtle is not at all lost on me either). :)
I'd say, if you want to get your first impression of Langgaard try the Chandos CD with symphonies 4, 5 and 6. As for Brian - start with his 'Gothic' (Naxos). I think you'd like that. Look here:
http://theconcerthall.blogspot.com/search/label/Brian
(Don't download that Second. It's not very convincing. If you like more Brian, PM me.)
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 03, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
I know that this thread is (or should be!) about Langgaard but I would just like to put on record that I do like 'Paris: The Song of a Great City'. :)
Is it as good as Walton's First Symphony? ;D
Yes, I like An American in Paris too. 8)
Quote from: vandermolen on May 04, 2009, 01:27:54 AM
Is it as good as Walton's First Symphony? ;D
Quote from: Christo on May 04, 2009, 01:48:45 AM
Yes, I like An American in Paris too. 8)
Now now, chaps, this is serious...
But no - Walton's First is stronger. And yes - there
is a link between Delius and Gershwin, harmonically, melodically. What connects both composers is the influence of black music.
Quote from: Jezetha on May 04, 2009, 02:09:23 AM
And yes - there is a link between Delius and Gershwin, harmonically, melodically. What connects both composers is the influence of black music.
Sure. One might even claim Delius's opera
Koanga (1897) to have been the first "black" opera (http://thompsonian.info/ko-main.html), in this respect. Delius had, of course, heard black music while growing oranges in Florida, on the plantation his father bought him in order to to steer him away from a doomed career as a composer ... ::)
Quote from: Christo on May 04, 2009, 02:36:33 AM
Sure. One might even claim Delius's opera Koanga (1897) to have been the first "black" opera (http://thompsonian.info/ko-main.html), in this respect. Delius had, of course, heard black music while growing oranges in Florida, on the plantation his father bought him in order to to steer him away from a doomed career as a composer ... ::)
All correct. You know your facts. $:)
Quote from: Jezetha on May 04, 2009, 03:04:25 AM
All correct. You know your facts. $:)
No. I google them 0:)
(But I've always been intrigued by Koanga since I heard
La Calinda (http://thompsonian.info/3calinda.ra) - one of those pieces that may haunt you when you're a boy of fourteen. ::) At least, it haunted me ... ;)
Have heard the Music of Spheres (it is actually playing now, for about the fifth time today)...Gorgeous.
Time to get into the symphonies.
I'm hoping the complete symphony box remains in print long enough for me to scrape together the requisite shekels.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 05:13:00 AM
I'm hoping the complete symphony box remains in print long enough for me to scrape together the requisite shekels.
Guy Rickard's comments in the new issue of "The Gramophone" magazine:
"The course of Langgaards's 16 symphonies....was neither smooth nor logical, with a bewildering array of styles, forms and durations... Listening to the set makes for an intriguing if unsettling experience. There is logical development of sorts through the first six; had Langgaard stopped there in 1930 his canon would seem no more irregular than Melartin's but the increasingly anarchic manner of Nos. 7-9(1925-42) show his musical language and expressive equilibrium unravelling. There's synthesis of sorts in the multi-layered Tenth but Nos. 13-16(1946-51) inhabit uneasy worlds of unreconciled styles where the borderlines with pastiche are blurred. Chaotic, vigorous and vital in equal measure, Dausgaard, Danish Radio and Dacapo do the cycle proud...."
I think I've run into those comments on a time, Colin.
At this point, I have heard not quite half of the symphonies, and a fairly broad chronological sampling. I'm keen to hear all the rest, too.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 05:28:07 AM
I think I've run into those comments on a time, Colin.
At this point, I have heard not quite half of the symphonies, and a fairly broad chronological sampling. I'm keen to hear all the rest, too.
Which symphonies have you heard, Karl?
Nos. 4, 6, 10, 12, 13 & 14, Johan.
Also the marvelous Music of the Spheres, of course. And a disc of short organ pieces which I enjoy a great deal.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 01:35:46 PM
Also the marvelous Music of the Spheres, of course. And a disc of short organ pieces which I enjoy a great deal.
Care for a few other symphonies, Karl? 2, 3, 9 and 16 are excellent.
Well, I'm saving up for the box, Johan. I do expect I should like the lot.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 02:22:51 PM
Well, I'm saving up for the box, Johan. I do expect I should like the lot.
Speaking of which,
mdt still hasn't dispatched mine (maybe Dacapo didn't anticipate the demand and there's a problem re-stocking its vendors?); so, Karl, take your time... ;D
(Takes note . . . .)
I've been listening to the Danacord recordings once again, and I am again deeply impressed by the Artur Rubinstein Philharmonic. For an orchestra that almost nobody has heard of these are first class performances. When I initially saw the years of recording (1991-2) memories of Naxos efforts from that era with central European orchestras concerned me, but these recordings are a world apart. Not only technically assured, but played with great heart - this coupled with the sheer instrumental heft behind some sections really advocate these works in the best way possible. Rued is extremely lucky to have had such a fine series of recordings dedicated to him, let alone two after the later DaCapo cycle!
After a re-listen, the "nationalist" works (I listened to nos.7 and 9, omitting 8 for some reason) are very fine indeed. Their principle virtue is their brevity: when played back to back they (edit: 7 and 9) end within 40 minutes and leave me wishing for more. This feature is all the more remarkable due to the very nature of programmatic national works tending to encourage the overblown, padded and self-consciously grand. These on the other hand are economic with their ideas, feeling more like character pieces or almost miniatures at times. There are a few moments of overblown nature, but this is inherent in the composer's style and without them they would be less interesting works.
I am also getting more of a handle on the middle works now - I very much enjoyed nos.5 and 6 in a way that I did not before, drawn as I was to his stormy 10, 11 and 15.
Quote from: Lethe on June 06, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
I've been listening to the Danacord recordings once again, and I am again deeply impressed by the Artur Rubinstein Philharmonic. For an orchestra that almost nobody has heard of these are first class performances. When I initially saw the years of recording (1991-2) memories of Naxos efforts from that era with central European orchestras concerned me, but these recordings are a world apart. Not only technically assured, but played with great heart - this coupled with the sheer instrumental heft behind some sections really advocate these works in the best way possible. Rued is extremely lucky to have had such a fine series of recordings dedicated to him, let alone two after the later DaCapo cycle!
Couldn't agree more. These are fiery, exhilarating performances, that outshine (IMO) some of Dausgaard's (e.g. 3rd, 10th, 13th, 16th).
QuoteAfter a re-listen, the "nationalist" works (I listened to nos.7 and 9, omitting 8 for some reason) are very fine indeed. Their principle virtue is their brevity: when played back to back they (edit: 7 and 9) end within 40 minutes and leave me wishing for more. This feature is all the more remarkable due to the very nature of programmatic national works tending to encourage the overblown, padded and self-consciously grand. These on the other hand are economic with their ideas, feeling more like character pieces or almost miniatures at times. There are a few moments of overblown nature, but this is inherent in the composer's style and without them they would be less interesting works.
I like 7, but I have a special fondness for 9. As you say (spot on!), the movements feel like 'character pieces' or 'miniatures'. They are short, satisfying and to the point, and instantly create a mood. I think these nationalist works point forward to the 'suite' that is No. 14, btw. And the opening of No. 7 is completely reworked and expanded in No. 13, of course.
It is nice to know that the Danacord performances rate so well. Saves me from the very considerable expense of investing in the Da Capo :)
I am finally getting into this composer. Symphony No. 1 is up and so far it is enjoyable, but I think there are more exciting things ahead.
Quote from: Catison on June 08, 2009, 01:59:05 AM
I am finally getting into this composer. Symphony No. 1 is up and so far it is enjoyable, but I think there are more exciting things ahead.
Keep us posted!
Does anybody have some recs beyond the commonly mentioned "core" recordings of the two complete cycles and Antikrist?
How is the Chandos CD of 4-5-6 for example? Are his piano works much cop?
The Chandos/Neeme Jarvi version of Nos. 4, 5 and 6 is excellent in my opinion....but then I am a great admirer of Neeme Jarvi's work and I am not a huge Langgaard fan....so what do I know ;D ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 15, 2009, 03:59:11 AM
The Chandos/Neeme Jarvi version of Nos. 4, 5 and 6 is excellent in my opinion....but then I am a great admirer of Neeme Jarvi's work and I am not a huge Langgaard fan....so what do I know ;D ;D
You know enough to recognize quality... Järvi is excellent, especially in the 4th - the best performance on CD, IMO. Another great Chandos CD is of
Music of the Spheres, with Rozhdestvensky.
Quote from: Jezetha on June 15, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
You know enough to recognize quality... Järvi is excellent, especially in the 4th - the best performance on CD, IMO. Another great Chandos CD is of Music of the Spheres, with Rozhdestvensky.
Acknowledgement of my fine taste too ;) 0:) - as these are exactly the two Langgaard cd's that I happen to own (except for a dvd with Antikrist). 0:)
I have only heard two of Langgaard's symphonies, 1 (Dausgaard) and 4 (Stupel). I really like them and probably would have heard more of his work if I hadn't canceled my eMusic account. :)
Quote from: Keemun on June 15, 2009, 12:34:38 PM
I have only heard two of Langgaard's symphonies, 1 (Dausgaard) and 4 (Stupel). I really like them and probably would have heard more of his work if I hadn't canceled my eMusic account. :)
Yeah, eMusic is a great way to dig into Langgaard - any time I have an extra download, I get one of the 1-mvt symphonies. Discovered No. 4 that way. Next up: No. 13, "Subfaith."
Have that Langgaard symphony set in my "shopping cart" and was about to pull the trigger until I saw this thread. Phew, close call!
Love the disc of shorter organ works.
Need more!
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 06, 2009, 10:00:46 AM
It is nice to know that the Danacord performances rate so well. Saves me from the very considerable expense of investing in the Da Capo :)
The Nielsen DRSO Da Capo recordings have recently been reissued by Naxos, not so long after their initial full-price release, albeit individually, rather than in a box. Perhaps the same fate will befall the Langgaard set. I'm holding off, just in case!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SJB6egxhL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Langgaard-Symphonies-15-16/dp/B001LKLKM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1257773488&sr=8-1)
Interesting to compare this performance of the 15th to the Stupel recording. This one is far more modern in feel, terse, jabbing brass where in the Stupel it brays atmospherically. Very different experiences which are underlined by DaCapo's very clean recorded sound - Stupel offering a Romantic single indexed movement tone picture, Dausgaard offering an analytical take, which the CD helpfully divides into sections. There is no such need for that in the Stupel - the washes of sound are intoxicating and structure is irrelevent. These differences are perhaps strongest during the section for the orchestra immediately prior to the choir's entry - in the Stupel it flows with cumulative energy, in the Dausgaard it stutters. Both fit very well with the image of a stormy sea, but at the moment I marginally prefer Stupel.
Edit: I just realised how much there is for me to look forward to in symphonies 2-6 by Dausgaard. I found these works on the most part to be slightly too wooly to fully enjoy in the Stupel recordings
Quote from: Lethe on November 09, 2009, 04:36:36 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SJB6egxhL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Langgaard-Symphonies-15-16/dp/B001LKLKM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1257773488&sr=8-1)
Interesting to compare this performance of the 15th to the Stupel recording. This one is far more modern in feel, terse, jabbing brass where in the Stupel it brays atmospherically. Very different experiences which are underlined by DaCapo's very clean recorded sound - Stupel offering a Romantic single indexed movement tone picture, Dausgaard offering an analytical take, which the CD helpfully divides into sections. There is no such need for that in the Stupel - the washes of sound are intoxicating and structure is irrelevent. These differences are perhaps strongest during the section for the orchestra immediately prior to the choir's entry - in the Stupel it flows with cumulative energy, in the Dausgaard it stutters. Both fit very well with the image of a stormy sea, but at the moment I marginally prefer Stupel.
Edit: I just realised how much there is for me to look forward to in symphonies 2-6 by Dausgaard. I found these works on the most part to be slightly too wooly to fully enjoy in the Stupel recordings
I actually played the 2-3 disc last night and were very impressed by the magnificent sound quality.
Quote from: erato on November 09, 2009, 05:35:38 AM
I actually played the 2-3 disc last night and were very impressed by the magnificent sound quality.
Indeedie - it adds a new perspective to the works, crystal clear compared to the fine but very differently produced sound of the Stupel. The two cycles compliment each other to quite an amazing degree, really.
Quote from: Lethe on November 09, 2009, 05:48:47 AM
Indeedie - it adds a new perspective to the works, crystal clear compared to the fine but very differently produced sound of the Stupel. The two cycles compliment each other to quite an amazing degree, really.
It's been a few months since I last listened and only for the first time, but in a certain sense Stupel and Dausgaard cannot be compared in the 2nd and 3rd, as they use different versions. So they complement each other in that respect, too. Dausgaard has the better sound and a fresh approach. But I still prefer(ed) Stupel in both works, because 1) his version of the 2nd is the superior one, in my opinion (though the Dausgaard hears Langgaard suddenly straying in
Music of the Spheres territory (iirc)!) and 2) the pianist in the 3rd is better.
Now listening to
Messis - wonderful work!
Dacapo has announced a new recording (http://www.dacapo-records.dk/recording-sf-rernes-musik.aspx) of Music of the Spheres in hybrid SACD (all that distant orchestra goodness in full surround sound), which will appear in August just in time for the Danish National Symphony Orchestra's performance of the piece at the Proms.
Quote from: CRCulver on April 27, 2010, 10:17:18 PM
Dacapo has announced a new recording (http://www.dacapo-records.dk/recording-sf-rernes-musik.aspx) of Music of the Spheres in hybrid SACD (all that distant orchestra goodness in full surround sound), which will appear in August just in time for the Danish National Symphony Orchestra's performance of the piece at the Proms.
You beat me to it; I read this in
Gramophone a few days ago. Apparently, the
CD will also include
The End of Time. Fab! Two out of my three fave RL scores on one CD.
Quote from: MDL on June 29, 2010, 11:35:52 AM
You beat me to it; I read this in Gramophone a few days ago. Apparently, the
CD will also include The End of Time. Fab! Two out of my three fave RL scores on one CD.
And what is the third one?
Quote from: Vladimir on July 25, 2010, 09:36:43 AM
And what is the third one?
Symphony No.4. I've got the Jarvi/DNRSO recording. It's the only one I've heard, so I don't know how it compares to the (somewhat limited) competition.
Quote from: MDL on July 25, 2010, 02:35:27 PM
Symphony No.4. I've got the Jarvi/DNRSO recording. It's the only one I've heard, so I don't know how it compares to the (somewhat limited) competition.
I think that the Jarvi Chandos CD with symphonies 4-6 on is the best Langgaard CD and the best introduction to his music.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2010, 02:45:55 PM
I think that the Jarvi Chandos CD with symphonies 4-6 on is the best Langgaard CD and the best introduction to his music.
The first Langgaard CD I bought and one whose qualities I've touted on other forums. I've since bought nearly all the Dausgaards discs as they appeared but never felt the need for duplicating these symphonies, which I guess proves a point. And really - most of the symphonies for me seems more interesting than really successfull. I guess for anybody not obesessive this Chandos disc will bring the essential" Langgaard (if you really can abstract any essence from an oeuvre so rambling and disrupted).
Quote from: erato on July 25, 2010, 10:20:59 PM
The first Langgaard CD I bought and one whose qualities I've touted on other forums. I've since bought nearly all the Dausgaards discs as they appeared but never felt the need for duplicating these symphonies, which I guess proves a point. And really - most of the symphonies for me seems more interesting than really successfull. I guess for anybody not obesessive this Chandos disc will bring the essential" Langgaard (if you really can abstract any essence from an oeuvre so rambling and disrupted).
Yes, I agree with this - although there is a Dacapo set with symphonies 4,6, 10 and Music of the Spheres which would also be an excellent Langgaard introduction or sole representative of his work in a collection.
Quote from: erato on July 25, 2010, 10:20:59 PM
The first Langgaard CD I bought and one whose qualities I've touted on other forums. I've since bought nearly all the Dausgaards discs as they appeared but never felt the need for duplicating these symphonies, which I guess proves a point. And really - most of the symphonies for me seems more interesting than really successfull. I guess for anybody not obesessive this Chandos disc will bring the essential" Langgaard (if you really can abstract any essence from an oeuvre so rambling and disrupted).
I'm in something of a once-bitten-twice-shy state where Järvi is concerned . . . he recorded a boatload of Chandos discs in a hurry for the Prokofiev centenary, and some of it has a phoned-in quality. So I don't find myself eager to seek this disc out, especially as I am so pleased with the Dausgaard set.Quote from: vandermolen on July 27, 2010, 01:37:15 AM
Yes, I agree with this - although there is a Dacapo set with symphonies 4,6, 10 and Music of the Spheres which would also be an excellent Langgaard introduction or sole representative of his work in a collection.
That is a wonderful two-fer. I do not mind the duplication there at all, at all.
Quote from: erato on July 25, 2010, 10:20:59 PM
The first Langgaard CD I bought and one whose qualities I've touted on other forums. I've since bought nearly all the Dausgaards discs as they appeared but never felt the need for duplicating these symphonies, which I guess proves a point. And really - most of the symphonies for me seems more interesting than really successfull. I guess for anybody not obesessive this Chandos disc will bring the essential" Langgaard (if you really can abstract any essence from an oeuvre so rambling and disrupted).
BTW Dausgaard uses the newly established critical edition of Langgaard oeuvre. Järvi conducted the works using the scores with numerous mistakes even in tempi, e.g. Comodo sempre vs Sempre con moto etc. Version comparison of the performed works are often in favour of Dausgaard and once he has recorded the 5th in two versions. But Järvi was the first foreign (or non-Danish) conductor of such degree who started conducting and recording Langgaard.
Music of the Spheres is being performed at the Proms this year.
I was turned onto by Langgaard simply by accident. I was looking through Da Capo's catalog one day and ran across Dausgaard's set of the symphonies. At the time, I was looking at it, the set wasn't released yet, so I had to wait many months before I got to buy the box. The wait was, indeed, worth it. I knew as soon as I heard Symphony No. 1 that I was going to be in for some interesting music.
I think anyone interested in Danish classical music will eventually come across Langgaard's name. Hopefully, the person who discovers him will take that risk in buy this set. Langgaard is a hell of a composer.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2010, 12:00:24 PM
I think anyone interested in Danish classical music will eventually come across Langgaard's name. Hopefully, the person who discovers him will take that risk in buy this set. Langgaard is a hell of a composer.
I can't recommend Langgaard so broadly. I discovered his work through
Music of the Spheres, which I love, but most of his oeuvre doesn't appeal to me all that much. I've heard the same from many other listeners in various fora. Hopefully people will hear something representative of Norgard before they decide to splurge on that big, expensive Dacapo set.
Quote from: CRCulver on July 30, 2010, 12:43:34 PM
I can't recommend Langgaard so broadly. I discovered his work through Music of the Spheres, which I love, but most of his oeuvre doesn't appeal to me all that much. I've heard the same from many other listeners in various fora. Hopefully people will hear something representative of Norgard before they decide to splurge on that big, expensive Dacapo set.
I actually got the Dacapo set quite cheap (around $30). I can certainly understand why many would not like him, but then again, it always comes down to personal subjectivity in the end.
Music of the Spheres is an interesting work for it's very modern outlook, but it's far from one of my favorite Langgaard works.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2010, 02:45:55 PM
I think that the Jarvi Chandos CD with symphonies 4-6 on is the best Langgaard CD and the best introduction to his music.
I found this one quite cheap, excepts sound good, and it seems like a good introduction to Langaarrd's music. Thanks.
I wonder if it airs on the radio . . . but Langgaard has made the npr.org site. (http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2010/09/12/129813223/classical-lost-and-found-rued-langgard-s-mystical-musical-universe)
Do you ever get tired of seeing modern tonal composers characterized as rebels against the establishment? What we have is artists individually creating the music they enjoy.
Er . . . Langgaard died in 1952. Does that make him "modern"?
Quote from: DavidW on October 18, 2010, 10:05:21 AM
Do you ever get tired of seeing modern tonal composers characterized as rebels against the establishment? What we have is artists individually creating the music they enjoy.
The overused complementary adjectives which a great friend of mine in San Diego loves to hate are challenging and accessible : )
Quote from: Dax on October 18, 2010, 10:25:23 AM
Er . . . Langgaard died in 1952. Does that make him "modern"?
Yes he does first part of 20th century = modern.
Yes, modern is reasonable for Langgaard.
Just not contemporary ; )
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 18, 2010, 10:39:19 AM
The overused complementary adjectives which a great friend of mine in San Diego loves to hate are challenging and accessible : )
If anything it's just a stereotype since the hidden assumption is that all tonal works are accessible and all atonal works are challenging. ::) Stupid critics! >:D
Quote from: DavidW on October 18, 2010, 11:38:17 AM
If anything it's just a stereotype since the hidden assumption is that all tonal works are accessible and all atonal works are challenging. ::) Stupid critics! >:D
Speaking of critics, I like this quote about critics by Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic."
Yeah I think that is Gurn's personal text right now. It's a perfect quote. You hear that Hurwitz? PERFECT. ;D Joking, I have no problem with Hurwitz.
Listening to 'The Music of the Spheres' (Frandsen DRSO) - what an extraordinary, hypnotic work for1918. I have ordered the new Dacapo version with Thomas Dausgaard as I'd like to hear what he makes of it in a modern version and the coupling 'Into the Abyss' sounds just my cup of tea!
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 18, 2010, 10:43:29 PM
Speaking of critics, I like this quote about critics by Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic."
Not quite true, as Sibelius should have known: a statue was erected in Copenhagen to honour the great Danish critic Georg Brandes. He was key in promoting, among others, Ibsen and Nietzsche to the Western world.
Quote from: Jezetha on December 17, 2010, 05:55:13 AM
. . . He was key in promoting, among others, Ibsen and Nietzsche to the Western world.
And you're telling us they haven't torn that statue down yet? ; )
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 17, 2010, 05:57:48 AM
And you're telling us they haven't torn that statue down yet? ; )
It's a small statue opposite the Statens Museum. His detractors may have overlooked it...
Or even the Anti-Nietszcheans have mistaken him for a train conductor memorial . . . .
I've just had my brain assaulted by his fifth symphony. I love the way that it's such music for the sake of music - exceptionally Romantic, and theoretically it's "about" something, but just listening to it offers a really incredible journey to absolutely nowhere. It doesn't feel challenging to me in the way, say, Strauss does, despite being of a related mould (although by now harmonically Langgard's music is more individual). It's hard to explain, but it can feel as if with Strauss, you're actually taken to the place the composer wants you to go, you feel it viscerally, and afterwards you are changed or moved to some extent. With Langgaard I love the experience, but I don't feel that I have really been a part of the music - it seems to be the product of a mind not operating by the same rules as my own. It is sort of like looking at a painting, then moving on to another - especially as his symphonies can be so different in feel.
Interesting observations, Sarah. 'Not being part of the music'... There is something impersonal about Langgaard's music, that's true. As if he doesn't make music, but the music makes itself through him. But at the same time there is that unmistakable Langgaard 'feel'. I'm searching through my own memories of L.'s works to see whether I feel personally involved... Yes, but not every work. The one symphony that I always find very touching is the very last one. The Sixteenth seems a final summing-up of Langgaard the romantic conservative. The final bars, to my ears, are grimly triumphant, and they never fail to give me a 'lift'... So, perhaps there is something in my mind more attuned to L.'s mental processes...
I come close to this kind of connection in his fifteenth - it has such an irresistable sweep, but also a certain quantitative atmosphere. In the sixteenth I've always had trouble following the progression of the movements - maybe my subconscious searching out for a high classical period sonata form. I find the composer irresistable to listen to, so I'll crack it eventually I am sure...
Funny you should be so in tune with the Fifteenth. A strange work, in only two movements, the second one choral. The first movement is terrific, one of his best, but the second does nothing for me...
Re the progression of the Sixteenth - there isn't any. All the movements are aspects of the opening idea.
My friends, you're making my ears itch to revisit those . . . but I cannot until tomorrow! : )
Apparently, he wrote a tone poem Sphinx. Has that been recorded?
Yes. It's on the CD with symphonies 10, 11 and 12 under Stupel (Danacord). And perhaps in the Dausgaard box, too.
Checked: yes.
Excellent. Thanks!
Yes, keen to revisit that symphonies box!
Quote from: Apollon on May 02, 2011, 05:00:45 AM
Yes, keen to revisit that symphonies box!
Why Langgaard's Lyre and not, say, Langgaard's Salpinx? :D
Quote from: Sylph on May 02, 2011, 06:22:10 AM
Why Langgaard's Lyre and not, say, Langgaard's Salpinx? :D
Thanks, Sylph - I had never encountered this wonderful word before...
;) No problem! Too bad the sound of it is still being re-created.
Zowie, The End of Time is a blast! Now I've got to reel in Antikrist . . . and Messis . . . and, oh! I see another recording of Sfærernes Musik . . . .
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 21, 2011, 11:29:22 AM
Zowie, The End of Time is a blast!
Thanks for the motivation to finally listen to that Chandos disc, as
The End of Time is the first Langgaard piece I've listened since
Music of the Spheres that I like. After the innovations of
Music of the Spheres, the symphonies, the violin concerto and other pieces just sounded like dull, warmed-over early Romanticism. But
The End of Time, though superficially Romantic, is one of the most unhinged pieces of music I've ever heard.
One digs the unhinged Langgaard, of course . . . it's hard on him to require that he be in Unhinged Mode all the time ; )Today's episode of Brainspace comes courtesy of Luke, who pointed out that the score is on IMSLP:Quote from: il RuederinoThe celestial and earthly chaotic music from red-glowing chords with which life plays with claws of beast of prey — with an iris-crown round its marble-face with the stereotypic – yet living – demoniac and lily-like smile.
Quote from: CRCulver on May 21, 2011, 12:50:13 PM
Thanks for the motivation to finally listen to that Chandos disc, as The End of Time is the first Langgaard piece I've listened since Music of the Spheres that I like. After the innovations of Music of the Spheres, the symphonies, the violin concerto and other pieces just sounded like dull, warmed-over early Romanticism. But The End of Time, though superficially Romantic, is one of the most unhinged pieces of music I've ever heard.
I'm generally not enthusiastic about the symphonies myself, but I do think the 4th and 6th symphonies are both fine works and pretty deranged. The other unhinged Langgaard works I know are dotted randomly around these chamber music discs:
[asin]B000024OBC[/asin]
[asin]B0000521CU[/asin]
(I think one could add the
Ixion symphony, no. 11, plus the childishly petulant
Carl Nielsen, vor store Komponist! to the unhinged list, though the latter isn't very good.)
Quote from: edward on May 23, 2011, 06:23:02 AM
(I think one could add the Ixion symphony, no. 11, plus the childishly petulant Carl Nielsen, vor store Komponist! to the unhinged list, though the latter isn't very good.)
Depends: what are we looking for? ; )Seriously (if not very) . . . heard it for the first time on this The End of Time disc. Of course, it's just one relatively short period, which draws to a monumental cadence . . . and is then repeated. And again. In its very modest way, I think it ingenious. (No, really.) It's part of the composer's intention, of course, that it should sound like a broken record . . . but the return to the opening works well . . . I found myself listening to, what, seven repetitions with fairly rapt musical attention. Sure, there was an element of "We all know he's putting us on . . . ."
It's all very much on its hinges . . . all the same, enjoying a revisitation to The Morning (Symphony № 14) this, erm, morning. Sweet and wholesome are movements 2 & 3 (Morning Stars Unnoticed & The Bells of the Marble Church, respectively).
Upaaagtede Morgenstjerner is one of my favourite Langgaard movements, a ravishing piece for string orchestra.
And well, all right, the title Radio-Caruso og Tvangsenergi is a little off-hinge . . . .
I remember that at the end of Symphony No. 12 the score reads The composer explodes. Langgaard did have problems of mental balance, to put it mildly. Still, I love his music. And isn't anyone who devotes his whole life transforming aesthetic possibility into reality a bit insane... ;)
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on May 25, 2011, 04:27:25 AM
I remember that at the end of Symphony No. 12 the score reads The composer explodes. Langgaard did have problems of mental balance, to put it mildly. Still, I love his music. And isn't anyone who devotes his whole life transforming aesthetic possibility into reality a bit insane... ;)
Oh, even less radical . . . isn't anyone who devotes his life to the creation of work which may never bring any material return a bit insane? ; )That last movement of The Morning (Sun and Beech Forest) has a strong Tchaikovsky vibe . . . which of course immediately gets on my good side . . . .
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 25, 2011, 04:34:39 AM
Oh, even less radical . . . isn't anyone who devotes his life to the creation of work which may never bring any material return a bit insane? ; )
Yes. And thank God there are people like us. :D
Hear, hear!
[Cross-post]
In overall character, though, the way I hear Langgaard's Symphony № 13 is this: If an organist composed a half-hour festive organ postlude for use in concluding, say, a service on Easter Sunday . . . if such an organ postlude were transmuted into a symphony, this would be just such a symphony.
From the listening thread about the second symphony (amongst the recent flurry of messages there):
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2011, 06:59:36 AM
Unfortunately it'll be a few hours before I can hear Dausgaard in that "massive" movement (the version Stupel plays cuts it in half): I have to start preparing dinner (including some grocery shopping :( ) But I'll be back.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on May 26, 2011, 07:04:16 AM
There is the advantage of cogency to that cut... But see and hear for yourself. Langgaard gives us a different mix of elements in these two versions. You lose some material in the later version (Stupel), but it is compensated for.
Having just heard the earlier 2nd with the longer opening movement, during the playing of that I was thinking about how impressive I found it, and how surely any cuts would trivialise this, but by the end I kind of understood why he did this. The adagio I longed to go on for longer, and the final movement with a soloist is beautiful, but in a Straussian sense rather than a Mahlerian climactic closer. The original work is slightly unbalanced with the lengthy opener.
My desire for a longer slow movement was partly due to the shades of Brucknerian sublimity I sensed in it, but not just that. Langgaard, for all his self-indulgence, was not long-winded. Sometimes he went too far toward the ultra-concise in the later works (such as No.11 and 12), but the slow movement of the second symphony perhaps reveals that this tendency was there, in germination, from early on. It's a gorgeous movement, and many other composers would have milked such material a little more.
You come to the same conclusion as me - the original version is indeed a bit unbalanced. That cut is very judicious, I think, and makes the final version a more satisfying whole. Although... I often skip the second movement, because the first is already so complete in itself!
Arggghhh! It is maddening to read in the booklet notes to the Dausgaard recording that there originally existed a similarly longer version of the third symphony, just like the second, but this one is lost. The third had a similarly big impact on me just now - I think that I prefer it to the second, as I was finally able to accept the piano as a symphonic part of the piece and not soloistic. Before I just sat bewildered, unable to consent to this. This piece, again, left me wishing for more, and despite its uber-Romanticism is a model of clarity and almost even brevity.
The specific phrase the notes use - "was considerably longer than in its final form" - is like a dagger through my heart :'(
In Langgaard's Sinfonia Interna - which should have been No. 4 - I seem to remember there are echoes of the Third. Read about it here:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/apr00/lansinf.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/apr00/lansinf.htm)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/apr00/lansinf.jpg)
The first two movements. The rest is on YouTube, too.
http://www.youtube.com/v/A0n_kpc3b58
http://www.youtube.com/v/zf_L2gVE1qs
Hmm, a friend once passed on to me a copy of the Sinfonia interna . . . .
Hi Freinds,
Was interested in exploring Langgaard's symphonies, are there individual recordings that are highly recommended? Or should I just splurge for the Dausgaard/DNSO box set?
Thanks.
The most notable single issues that won't duplicate any of the material in the sets (if you later choose to pick one up) are these two:
[asin]B000000APJ[/asin] [asin]B00005AG71[/asin]
The Jarvi in particular is good stuff :) The Stupel cycle is not boxed, so picking up individual issues may be less problematic than Dausgaard - perhaps Johan could help you more with "favourite" recordings of each symphony: I lack the close familiarity with the works that he has.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on June 10, 2011, 09:36:10 AM(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005AG71.01.L.jpg)
Thanks, Sara! I wanted as well to suggest this one to Greg.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 10, 2011, 09:42:42 AM
Thanks, Sara! I wanted as well to suggest this one to Greg.
Thank you Sara and Karl, that's perfect! I already have
Music of the Spheres, but getting 4 other symphonies is a great start.
and that's not a bad price either on Amazon.
This is one of three recordings I have of Sfærernes Musik . . . I haven't done a proper "comparative listening," but I find value in them all.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2011, 09:45:10 AM
I already have Music of the Spheres, but getting 4 other symphonies is a great start.
It's a great selection too. No.14 is a bit "odd" (yet wonderful), but 4, 6 and 10 are central works - 10 is perhaps as close as the composer gets to a blockbuster.
So, if you've got blocks which want busting . . . .
I've had this set for a while and have not cracked it yet (although I have listened to Jarvi's recordings of a trio of Langgaard symphonies). Too much good music in the world. >:(
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 10, 2011, 10:19:28 AM
So, if you've got blocks which want busting . . . .
Have a 2 year-old, tons of blocks, Langgaard will bust them...hopefully.
This is
Spheres I have...
[asin]B003T68VOE[/asin]
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
Have a 2 year-old, tons of blocks, Langgaard will bust them...hopefully.
This is Spheres I have...
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B003T68VOE.01.L.jpg)
That's my latest, and a lovely disc it is!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
Have a 2 year-old, tons of blocks, Langgaard will bust them...hopefully.
This is Spheres I have...
[asin]B003T68VOE[/asin]
I always avoided that one because I feared it would be to "new agey."
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 10, 2011, 10:33:13 AM
That's my latest, and a lovely disc it is!
Great!
Thanks again for the suggestions, friends.
Off to work.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on June 10, 2011, 10:33:46 AM
I always avoided that one because I feared it would be to "new agey."
It's ethereal at times, but there isn't really any of the aesthetic you mention in Langgaard's music - much that he does is derived from Straussian heroic Romanticism, or to some degree Romantic nature mysticism. Music of the Spheres stems from these kind of things, but abstracts them to a ridiculous degree. Its soundworld is unique. The programmatic indications are also pure Langgaard - absolutely weird, and when they sound a bit... wiffle-esque, it's not in the Hovahness sense, it's just product of a very perculiar and individual mind ;)
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on June 10, 2011, 10:33:46 AM
I always avoided that one because I feared it would be to "new agey."
Oh, but that's also got the "concert suite" from Antikrist, The End of Time . . . nothing remotely new agey about that!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 10, 2011, 10:44:40 AM
Oh, but that's also got the "concert suite" from Antikrist, The End of Time . . . nothing remotely new agey about that!
Ok, another for the overburdened wish list. :(
As Sara rightly says, I know my Stupel... So, which CDs would I recommend unreservedly, both for the works and his performances? I'd say, in order of 'essentialness' - the one with Symphonies 2 & 3, then the one with 13 and 16, and finally the one with 10, 11 and 12, because of the (to me) unbeaten reading of the Tenth.
I think the Stupel recordings can be downloaded too (just look around the online stores). So you could also simply choose the works you'd like to have instead of complete CDs.
Hi,
[asin]B00005AG71[/asin]
Just came in the mail today, recommended from some of my new GMG forum friends here ;D thanks!
Also, I love this portrait, one of the best Composer portraits in a album sleeve i've seen
(http://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/img/gallery/Rued_Langgaard_ung.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 13, 2011, 07:29:54 AM
Hi,
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005AG71.01.L.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005AG71/?tag=goodmusicguideco)
Just came in the mail today, recommended from some of my new GMG forum friends here ;D thanks!
Overall, an excellent disc (I love No. 14 in this reading, because the outer - choral - movements have real majesty.). One word of warning, though - No. 10 is far too sluggish, IMO. Stupel 'rules' in that piece.
I remember the first time I ever heard this composer. Back in the late 70's (or early 80's,perhaps?). I sent off via mail order for the Danacord LP of 'The Music of the Sphere's' and the Sixth symphony. It took a few months to arrive,but that's how it was with some imports then. I remember the big parcel arriving with the Lp,featuring an entertainingly wierd & rather garish looking painting on the cover (I must go & look for a photo,after),which only seemed to enhance my youthful enthusiasm.
A few years later I taped a broadcast of Langgaards Fourth off Radio 3 (where else?),followed,a little later,by a live broadcast of the same symphony.
I've had the complete cycle now,for a while,bought seperately,I hasten to add. Whether Rued's symphonies are consistent,or are any of them are actually major symphonic statements is perhaps open to debate,but the sheer variety of his output is quite astonishing. I particularly like the way that,even though Langgaard spent so much of his time as an embittered,miserable sod,very little of this is actually evident in his music. It's as if he used music as some kind of cathartic escape from his lonely,unhappy existence.
Incidentally,one of my favourites is the eighth,a lovely,sunny,tuneful work,even if it is more like a suite. But with music as delightful as that,who cares? It should be more popular.
The 'Antikrist' was the last major work I invested in. This is surely the closest Langgaard got to producing something as massive and mind boggling as Havergal Brian's 'Gothic Symphony'. I keep wondering whether it IS a masterpiece. It's so wonderfully deranged,and it all seems to make sense in a wacky kind of way. Again,the range of expression and styles is astonishing & despite the portentous title it's far from gloomy! Ultimately,I suppose the libretto is too nutty to ever satisfy Langgaard's keenest critics.
I note that 'Herrenberg' rates Stupel very highly. I have heard some suggestions that his interpretations are,in some way,superior?
NB: Record labels seem to have a field day finding bizarre paintings for Langgaard cd covers. Not so sure about the Dacapo sleeves though. Maybe they'll come into focus if I can find my reading glasses!
Your impressions are wonderful to read, and you hit upon something interesting. I would be wary about declaring even one of Langgaard's symphonies as a masterpiece, and yet as a cycle the continual invention and variety demands its consideration as a major achivement, and consequently requires the attention of anyone interested in the medium during Langgaard's lifetime. Brian I would say has several works worthy of advocating as masterworks in their style, although I would add a qualifier even to those - they remain "special interest" only, to some extent.
IMO a great benefit of the Stupel cycle, and a characteristic which prevents his recordings from being outdated by the newer Dausggard (which is in clearer sound, newer editions and played by an orchestra that people have heard of) is that the performances sound astonishing for such unknown forces, and where Dausgaard is analytical, Stupel is stormily Romantic and rather richly recorded. In a sense, the two cycles most beautifully compliment each other.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 13, 2011, 07:29:54 AM
Hi,
[asin]B00005AG71[/asin]
Just came in the mail today, recommended from some of my new GMG forum friends here ;D thanks!
Also, I love this portrait, one of the best Composer portraits in a album sleeve i've seen
(http://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/img/gallery/Rued_Langgaard_ung.jpg)
This is my favourite Langgaard CD along with Jarvi's CD of symphonies 4 - 6 on Chandos.
Thank you for your reply 'Lethe'. I tend to go along with your differentiation between masterwork and masterpiece. While Nielsen,easily has a couple of masterpieces (sorry Rued) it's hard to see one in Langgaard's output that is quite on their exalted level,wonderful as they are. There is a universal quality to Nielsen's inspiration which I do not find in Langgaards output. It's hard to explain (especially before lunch!),but Langgaard's inspiration seems (at least to me) more parochial. Wild,colourful,intense,romantic,lyrical,tuneful,passionate,dreamy,stormy,eccentric,disturbed,heroic,serene,are some of the words that spring to mind when listening to Rued Langgaard's symphonies,but not humane,spritual and profound,which DO apply to those of his hated rival. That's not to denigrate Langgaard,although I'm pretty sure HE'D be offended,but it's not that hard really to see why Langgaard has been relegated to 'second division' on the 'world stage'. Having said that,he is a superb orchestrator and the sheer scale,breadth and cussed individuality of his ouput does have you scratching your head every now and again and thinking,'Maybe Rued was right,maybe he WAS a great composer?'
And then you put on Carl Nielsen!
Nice discussion, Cilgwyn and Sara! You both raise some interesting points.
I too have always marveled at the positive energy, the exuberance, and the sensuousness of Langgaard's music, which is so at variance with his life.
Years ago I read his biography, written by Langgaard expert Bengt Viinholt-Nielsen (yes, in Danish...): what struck me there, did strike some other commentators, too - that Langgaard's musical outlook was formed but also warped by his parents. Both were Theosophists (his father composed, too) and had a very Schopenhauerian idea of the composer - in communion with a higher force, bringing a spiritual realm sonically to life. His parents adored Schumann, Gaade, Liszt and Wagner. But almost anything newer was anathema to them, and this seemed to have influenced Langgaard profoundly in his distaste for modern life and modern music, of which Nielsen was the strongest Danish exponent. At the same time, his mystical view of music did inspire him - in Music of the Spheres - to some of the most advanced music of the 1910s! I think, too, that - masterwork/masterpiece - Langgaard's work should be taken as a vibrant but uneven whole, where every style is used in - as Viinholt Nielsen says - an almost postmodern fashion. That's why his symphonies are such a strange cycle, with two centuries living side by side.
The reason I didn't reply to your post, Johan, is because the concepts there are a little too bewildering for me at this time ;D A living composer who is unwilling to understand new music is a delicious concept in a sense.
Some quick comments about the first symphony, which Sarge asked about in another thread: the Segerstam recording is rather impressive. It's by far the longest of the recordings (7 minutes more than Dausgaard, 12 longer than Stupel - cuts there, surely?). I am surprised to find myself enjoying the commitment of the recording - previously Dausgaard had been my "go to" for this work, as the combination of his clarity and tempi made the work more navigable to me. Segerstam has the benefit of also including a filler (as if it needed one) in Fra Dybet - a good piece in itself. I should programme this before or after his 15th symphony sometime.
Dausgaard's production job really is worlds apart. Compared to Segerstam the recording aesthetics are quite different. Segerstam is what we recognise as quite a typical CD sound - quite hefty sounding, rich and with blended climaxes. The Dausgaard has something of an x-ray effect which is unusual to hear to this extent - it is more natural sounding in so far as the brass do not become a textural part of the climax - the section can be focused upon individually which is rather cool, as you get to hear more of the material that the composer wrote. It is strange that I prefer this clarity in the early "Romantic" works, yet I prefer the "Romantic" Stupel in the later ones ::)
Something rather interesting his how personal Langgaard's style really is - the careening, squealing strings offering a "buffeting" effect in the first symphony are also present in advanced works such as his tenth relatively unchanged in technique (although expressively different).
Found this video on YouTube of Langgaard himself conducting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fjeWJpKvs
Sorry, dont know how to embed the video straight to the post yet.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 27, 2011, 08:12:18 PM
Found this video on YouTube of Langgaard himself conducting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fjeWJpKvs
Sorry, dont know how to embed the video straight to the post yet.
Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs
By the way, thanks for posting this video. Very interesting to see the man himself conducting.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2011, 08:22:15 PM
Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs
By the way, thanks for posting this video. Very interesting to see the man himself conducting.
How did you post the video, MI?
I'm not MI but I'll tell you the trick is replace /watch?v= with /v/ so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fjeWJpKvs becomes http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs so that when you insert that with the old flash button you get [flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs[/flash] which results in http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs. Hope this helps. :)
Quote from: DavidW on June 27, 2011, 08:45:41 PM
I'm not MI but I'll tell you the trick is replace /watch?v= with /v/ so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fjeWJpKvs becomes http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs so that when you insert that with the old flash button you get [flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs[/flash] which results in http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs. Hope this helps. :)
Thanks, David!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 27, 2011, 08:26:52 PM
How did you post the video, MI?
Ah, yes, I knew this was coming. ;) It took me awhile to figure but my buddy Johan taught me in a very straight-forward way:
Basically you have the YouTube address which is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fjeWJpKvs
What you do is remove the = and replace it with a / and completely remove the watch?
Now it should look something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs
Now put a {flash=425,350}{/flash} (using the correct [] brackets of course) in the address and now you will have this:
http://www.youtube.com/v/s7fjeWJpKvs
I see Dave has already beaten me to the punch, damn...
http://www.youtube.com/v/LXf3BifYrpQ&feature=related
Test completed!! Thanks again, friends.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 27, 2011, 08:57:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/LXf3BifYrpQ&feature=related
Test completed!! Thanks again, friends.
Alright! You got it! Just remember the number 425,350 because this is just the right size for the forum I think. He's an interesting video I found:
http://www.youtube.com/v/0OX_4cJyhgI
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on June 18, 2011, 09:28:25 PM
Some quick comments about the first symphony, which Sarge asked about in another thread....
Just saw this. Thanks for the reply 8)
Sarge
The Great Man Himself!
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 28, 2011, 05:16:53 AM
The Great Man Crank Himself!
Fixed.
(A loveable crank, mind you, even admirable . . . .)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 28, 2011, 05:23:42 AM
Fixed.
(A loveable crank, mind you, even admirable . . . .)
Loveable indeed...anyone who can write a Symphony titled "The Flush of Youth", structure it as a three-movement piano concerto, and feature an optional wordless choir at the end, is a friend of mine.
So glad I hopped on the Langgaard train, loving every minute of it!
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/0OX_4cJyhgI
Well, Per Nørgård speaks English with the most pronounced Danish accent I ever heard. Rather funny listening.
Thanks for posting that amusing story MI. Now I feel like buying and listening to that Langgaard work! :)
Quote from: DavidW on June 28, 2011, 07:23:32 AM
Thanks for posting that amusing story MI. Now I feel like buying and listening to that Langgaard work! :)
Music of the Spheres is a fun piece. I own both Rozhdestvensky's and Dausgaard's recordings. I'm still debating which recording I prefer. I'll probably go with Dausgaard.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 28, 2011, 08:09:08 AM
Music of the Spheres is a fun piece. I own both Rozhdestvensky's and Dausgaard's recordings. I'm still debating which recording I prefer. I'll probably go with Dausgaard.
The Dausggard disc was the first Langgaard disc I owned, just recently bought the Rozhdestvensky version, mainly for the 4 Tone Pictures. Both are excellent performances, although I tend to prefer the Dausggard, his pacing in the final movements are a bit slower and Spheres benefits from that.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 28, 2011, 08:20:32 AM
The Dausggard disc was the first Langgaard disc I owned, just recently bought the Rozhdestvensky version, mainly for the 4 Tone Pictures. Both are excellent performances, although I tend to prefer the Dausggard, his pacing in the final movements are a bit slower and Spheres benefits from that.
Yes, I remember Dausgaard's whole performance actually being on the slower side, but I haven't listened to this recording in quite some time. It may be time to refresh my memory. :)
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 28, 2011, 07:09:33 AM
Well, Per Nørgård speaks English with the most pronounced Danish accent I ever heard. Rather funny listening.
The other contender being NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen.
I have always loved the Finale of Langgaard's Ninth. I now know why - it has some of the radiance of Beethoven's Eighth, though not the tension-filled dialectics. Here is Ilya Stupel and his Artur Rubinstein Philharmonic Orchestra in fine form:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/gwozjfwghdm/9%20IV%20-%20Finale_%20Fortids%20brusende%20Livslob.mp3 (http://www.mediafire.com/file/gwozjfwghdm/9%20IV%20-%20Finale_%20Fortids%20brusende%20Livslob.mp3)
ARRRRGHHH
I blush to say I still haven't listened yet to Antikrist : (
Fair enough. Have you already had a chance to listen to Messis, Karl?
Quote from: karlhenning on January 24, 2012, 12:04:41 PM
ARRRRGHHH
I blush to say I still haven't listened yet to Antikrist : (
:'(
OK, I love symphonies 4,5,6 and 10. Which other ones should I listen to? (don't say 'all' although that is probably true :)). I'm tempted by the box set but his style is so diverse that I'm not sure and I can't afford it anyway.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 25, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
OK, I love symphonies 4,5,6 and 10. Which other ones should I listen to? (don't say 'all' although that is probably true :)). I'm tempted by the box set but his style is so diverse that I'm not sure ando I can't afford it anyway.
4,5,6,10 are also my favourites; I´d probably say 16,3,2,1 as the second row of preferences ... The 16th is a dark and tragic work, the others have a lighter mood.
Haven´t heard all of Dausgaard`s, but Langgaard symphony recordings are often unusually different from each other. The Stupel set is often very good, for instance in no.10, whereas his 15th has a Polish singer singing Danish, the result is ... unwillingly funny.
Langgaard´s
piano works are likewise stylistically unpredictable, lots of lovely pieces and some devillish ones too, one should definitely give them a chance too if not yet heard.
I agree with DieNacht's recommendations, though I also have a weak spot for 9, 13 and 14... I prefer Stupel to Dausgaard, though not when there is a chorus and/or soloist that need(s) to sing in Danish (as DN rightly says), which is the case in 14 and 15...
Langgaard & Brian at the top,together. I like it!
I wonder what they would have thought of each other if they'd ever been able to meet up for a chat? :o
The Antikrist v the 'Gothic'! Mind boggling! :o
Quote from: cilgwyn on
Today at 16:33:42 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604386#msg604386)
Langgaard & Brian at the top,together. I like it!
I wonder what they would have thought of each other if they'd ever been able to meet up for a chat? :o
The Antikrist v the 'Gothic'! Mind boggling! :o
I think Nature herself would have rebelled.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 25, 2012, 06:34:53 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on Today at 16:33:42 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604386#msg604386)Langgaard & Brian at the top,together. I like it!
I wonder what they would have thought of each other if they'd ever been able to meet up for a chat? :o
The Antikrist v the 'Gothic'! Mind boggling! :o
I think Nature herself would have rebelled.
:D :D :D
Quote from: DieNacht on February 25, 2012, 06:25:06 AM
The Stupel set is often very good, for instance in no.10, whereas his 15th has a Polish singer singing Danish, the result is ... unwillingly funny.
Ah, the advantage (or was it disadvantage?) of knowing neither language!
Thanks so much for the really helpful replies :)
One of the CD guides described Langgaard as a kind of 'Danish Havergal Brian' so maybe they are destined to be together ;D
Clearly I need to listen to 1 and 16 from opposite ends of Langgaard's composing career. I have some of the Stupel recordings so will fish them out.
Thanks again.
#14 - once you familiarize yourself with its program and movement titles (eg. Dad's rushing to the office) it becomes even more enjoyable, plus it's choral bookends enhance the symphony's uniqueness.
And I have grown to appreciate the first version of symphony #5 quite a bit. Only have one version (Dausgard)
Quote from: vandermolen on 25-02-2012, 18:41:40 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604428#msg604428)
One of the CD guides described Langgaard as a kind of 'Danish Havergal Brian' so maybe they are destined to be together ;D
Clearly I need to listen to 1 and 16 from opposite ends of Langgaard's composing career. I have some of the Stupel recordings so will fish them out.
Langgaard resembles Brian only in the neglect he suffered. Musically, intellectually, they are very different, I think. Brian is much more consistently adventurous and didn't have a spiritual programme, like Langgaard did (got it from his parents). The musical language of Langgaard's first symphony isn't very different from his last. Only in symphony no. 6 and, even more, the Music of the Spheres does he write music of astonishing boldness and novelty. But No. 7 retreats into the nineteenth century. This Brian never does. It's not just 40 years that separate the Gothic and Symphony No. 32, but a wholly different musical outlook.
What do you think of his 'Antikrist' opera,Johan? A bit late (or,early!) to answer this question,now,but I am curious as to you're thoughts on this.
And yes,Brian never goes back,does he,in the way Langgaard did. Although,the English Suite No 5 is a kind of revisiting of something he did earlier. But even that's in his later,more allusive style.
Quote from: cilgwyn on February 25, 2012, 04:13:16 PM
What do you think of his 'Antikrist' opera,Johan? A bit late (or,early!) to answer this question,now,but I am curious as to you're thoughts on this.
I know you didn't ask me, but Langgaard's
Antikrist is certainly one of the better operas I've heard. There is such an orchestral brilliance throughout the work. Some moments are absolutely jaw-dropping. I didn't follow along with the libretto, but on a purely musical level it's one of his best works IMHO. If you love his symphonies, then you'll love this opera.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 25, 2012, 09:10:40 AM
#14 - once you familiarize yourself with its program and movement titles (eg. Dad's rushing to the office) it becomes even more enjoyable, plus it's choral bookends enhance the symphony's uniqueness.
And I have grown to appreciate the first version of symphony #5 quite a bit. Only have one version (Dausgard)
Many thanks - I have both of these works so I will listen again.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 25, 2012, 08:01:36 PM
I know you didn't ask me, but Langgaard's Antikrist is certainly one of the better operas I've heard. There is such an orchestral brilliance throughout the work. Some moments are absolutely jaw-dropping. I didn't follow along with the libretto, but on a purely musical level it's one of his best works IMHO. If you love his symphonies, then you'll love this opera.
Actually,I DO have the opera on cd,MI. I just wondered,that's all,Johan being a HBS member & the Langaard-Havergal Brian comparisons. Having said that,I know flattery gets you nowhere ;D,but judging by you're posts you certainly know you're music! And yes,'Antikrist' IS very orchestral,almost symphonic in places. This is one opera where you really can enjoy the music & singing,even if you aren't following a libretto,or even if you just heard it on the radio & didn't know what the heck was going on.
MI and cilgwyn - I still have to listen to Antikrist and read the libretto... It shares music with Symphony No. 6, of course, so I do know some of it. When I have the time I'll listen to it. I know what the subject matter is and I can read Danish, so it will be interesting to see how Langgaard combines word and music, and if he is indebted to Wagner and Strauss in any way.
So, for the moment - no opinion!
Thanks,Johan! Incidentally,I wonder if anyone here has the dvd? I have watched some excerpts on 'Youtube'.
Nice to be able to read it in Danish. Of course reading the libretto is the right way of listening to an opera,especially one like this. Langgaard is an ideas man after all;this isn't verismo froth we're dealing with. I was just observing that the music is,as MI pointed out,is so brilliant,in terms of orchestration,that it IS possible to just sit back and just wallow in the sheer sumptuousness and jaw dropping originality of some of Langgaards wildly imaginative sound world.
For those who want to read some reviews of Antikrist and about RL himself... http://www.mediafire.com/?dd0ufsdkqecdd (http://www.mediafire.com/?dd0ufsdkqecdd)
Thank you,Johan,I will have a look at that.Even if Langgaard has a tendency to look backwards,as opposed to forwards,there is some truly astonishing orchestration in some of his best symphonies,even if he was never 'up there' with his nemesis,Carl Nielsen (well.maybe in his dreams & I bet old Nielsen came out badly in them ;D). The Fourth is a case in point & the sixth has a visionary quality.The fact that he seems to make a giant leap back in time,afterwards,is initially,a bit of a disappointment. But,when you get to know his music better,it is this leaping back and forth,in time and styles,and wild,wacky,inconsistency that is,at least for me,part of the puzzle that makes RL such an intriguing composer. Although,having said that,as interesting as he is,I don't think I would ever feel as much of a need to post in the RL thread as I do in the HB! Somehow,HB has a far more universal appeal.There are more layers to unpeel.
Mind you,like Dundonnell.I don't like all these comparisons,anyway. For example,I was on the Louis Spohr thread a moment ago,and while I would be loathe,and probably extremely foolish or eccentric,to rank him alongside Beethoven,with whom he was once compared,I really DID enjoy the two symphonies I have just heard & he does have his own sound world,even if it wasn't as epoch making or influential,in the way that Beethoven's was.
This reviewer is suitable boggled by Langgaard's maverick eccentricity,anyway!:
http://www.operatoday.com/content/2005/11/langgaard_antik.php (http://www.operatoday.com/content/2005/11/langgaard_antik.php)
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 25, 2012, 02:29:17 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on 25-02-2012, 18:41:40 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604428#msg604428)One of the CD guides described Langgaard as a kind of 'Danish Havergal Brian' so maybe they are destined to be together ;D
Clearly I need to listen to 1 and 16 from opposite ends of Langgaard's composing career. I have some of the Stupel recordings so will fish them out.
Langgaard resembles Brian only in the neglect he suffered. Musically, intellectually, they are very different, I think. Brian is much more consistently adventurous and didn't have a spiritual programme, like Langgaard did (got it from his parents). The musical language of Langgaard's first symphony isn't very different from his last. Only in symphony no. 6 and, even more, the Music of the Spheres does he write music of astonishing boldness and novelty. But No. 7 retreats into the nineteenth century. This Brian never does. It's not just 40 years that separate the Gothic and Symphony No. 32, but a wholly different musical outlook.
Thanks Johan - I think that it was in this spirit that the comment was originally made and certaily how I took it - two eccentric loners persevering in the face of public and music establishment indifference. I don't think that there was ever any suggestion of stylistic connection.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 26, 2012, 11:31:44 AM
Thanks Johan - I think that it was in this spirit that the comment was originally made and certaily how I took it - two eccentric loners persevering in the face of public and music establishment indifference. I don't think that there was ever any suggestion of stylistic connection.
Yes..and that is a problem for me :D Jeffrey's phrase- "two eccentric loners persevering in the face of public and music establishment indifference" ;D
Now I am not actually sure that I would characterise Brian as 'eccentric', Langgaard yes! But this image is one which has been built up since these composers died and since their music came to be revived. It is a powerful image and there is an attraction to it. Some of us empathise strongly with the image and support, with sometimes boundless enthusiasm, the rehabilitation of the composers and their music. The music may indeed deserve the encomia lavished on it by its fanatical supporters-Brian's certainly does, Langgaard's I am not quite so sure of.
But there are two problems. One if that the critical musical establishment reacts by closing ranks against the lobby of enthusiasts, characterising them as equally 'eccentric' devotees of a justifiably ignored mediocrity. That, I can live with. The second problem-which I regard as more serious, even if less often discussed-is that, in expending so much energy and enthusiasm in extolling the merits of these composers, we tend to have less time, less enthusiasm for other fine composers whose personal stories cannot so readily be transformed into the stuff of myth. These people worked away, perhaps enjoying brief periods of, if not fame, then acceptance before falling out of fashion and into comparative neglect. They are not necessarily colourful characters, we can weave no web of mystery about them, sometimes indeed we know very little about them. But is their music to be rated as so much poorer because they do not attract people to write screeds and screeds about them?
In short(hah ;D) while Havergal Brian attracts well in excess of 200 pages on this forum and Langgaard 13, other worthy composers struggle to get half a dozen comments in total.
And it is this which worries me :(
Interesting post, Colin. I'd like to say the following:
Art isn't democratic. Every artist likes to be the centre of attention, and only a handful succeeds. A minority survives death. Why? There must be something in the work - not just the life - which fascinates and merits repeated viewings, readings, listens. There must be abundance, mastery, vitality, mystery. If an artist possesses all these attributes, he will continue to attract new 'customers', whatever the critics say. That many artists are not so lucky can't be helped - life is short and you must make choices. That's why I do think that comparing artists is useful - it sharpens critical awareness and it saves time...
I am not sure that I would agree that "every artist likes to be the centre of attention" :) Did it matter so very much to Brian that his works were almost totally ignored for so long and that he was, most certainly, not "the centre of attention" ???
Of course there are 'unsung composers' whose work may attract a handful of dedicated enthusiasts but does not have sufficient intrinsic merit to attract others to it. Brian's music does have that merit, it is fascinating music of enduring power and vitality but his cause has been helped-and I think we should acknowledge this-by the image of the old man working away in semi-isolation, producing 32 symphonies, including one of extraordinary dimensions and grandeur. I know that it was this 'image' that initially grabbed my attention, along with Deryck Cooke's so-powerful piece of writing about The Gothic, back in 1962 or whenever it was.
The second sentence of the Wikipedia article on Brian:
"Brian acquired a legendary status at the time of his rediscovery in the 1950s and 1960s for the many symphonies he had managed to write. By the end of his life he had completed 32, an unusually large number for any composer since Haydn or Mozart. More remarkably, he completed 14 of these symphonies in his 80s, and seven more in his early 90s."
I agree that "art isn't democratic". There are fine composers whose music does deserve to be heard more widely but is not given the chance to do so because they lack both a colourful back-story and an effective champion. Suppose, for the sake of argument, neither Robert Simpson or Malcolm MacDonald had happened to like HB's music. Where would it now be, I wonder ???
I don't have the capacity, ability or knowledge to write a book about, let's just say, William Wordsworth. Nor am I a music producer at the BBC with the opportunity to get his music performed. All I can do is to write on forums like this and hope to encourage two or three other people to take an interest in music which I do believe has value.
It is not anything like enough.....but I shall go on trying :)
I think it speaks for the power of Brian's music that he could attract two such tremendous advocates. Just as great literature creates great critics, great music inspires passionate advocacy in those suspectible to its charms. As for 'being the centre of attention' - Brian thought he was fated to write great music. Though he didn't have a lot of success, you can hear in the music that his ambition was enormous and that the urge to create powerful works never diminished. He must have known that all his labour wasn't in vain and gave his all.
Langgaard, on the other hand, was an embittered man. He started out as a Wunderkind but was overtaken by the great Carl Nielsen, who wrote the 'modern' music the Danes liked. Langgaard was regarded as outdated. Perhaps it was fortunate for Brian he was used to being a nobody, whereas Langgaard had tasted fame in Germany, for a short while.
Out of personal curiosity, may I interrupt this interesting conversation to ask whether anybody thinks this Langaard is good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7fZdvQMxk
Quote from: Winky Willy on
Today at 01:31:26 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604847#msg604847)
Out of personal curiosity, may I interrupt this interesting conversation to ask whether anybody thinks this Langaard is good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7fZdvQMxk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7fZdvQMxk)
'Good', isn't the right word. It's funny and obsessive... The theme goes round and round (Ixion's Wheel) and then Wagner tubas join in. The next symphony is just as strange, with a very abrupt ending where the score reads: the composer explodes...
I personally find it one of the stupidest and most offensive (to the intellect of the listener) works I have ever heard.
I think the stupidity is intentional. I am not easily offended, nor is my intelligence (in this case). I consider the work a bitter joke.
:o I'll have a listen to that one tommorrow! If I end up gnashing my teeth I'll have to blame you,I'm afraid,Johan! ;D I have heard it before and I can't say it particularly offended me. I like Langgaard's music,when I'm in the right mood,but he's never going to be everyone's metaphorical cup of tea!
Of course,you don't mean funny,as in 'Dads Army',do you?!!! ;D
No, not 'Dad's Army'-funny. More absurdly funny.
I find Langgaard probably the most frustrating composer whose music I have ever listened to.....and that's saying a lot ;D
He had obvious talent and was capable of writing music of very considerable power and beauty.....but then, within his music, and sometimes, the same piece are passages of such sublime banality and empty worthless mediocrity that I quite despair :(
....and IF it is a 'joke' then the joke wears pretty thin ::)
(But then, as Johan will no doubt tell you....I am, supposedly, not possessed of a huge sense of humour ;D)
I'm going to have to have another listen now,but on my cd player,tomorrow. It's too late/early to look for it right now.
Being a bit stodgy,I must admit to a penchance for the more traditionally tuneful No 9!
David 'the Hurwitz' describes it as a " thickly scored demented waltz tune that wants to sound festive but ends up getting blasted by the percussion through one jarring key after another","sarcastic,bitter,pointless music.What makes it work at all...is that Langgaard's structures are always remarkably concise given the idiom employed. He makes his point and moves on...."
Sorry to quote Hurwitz ;D,but he's usually very hard to please!
Surely not as funny,Johan,as the last line of Dads Army,the other week,with Cpt Mannering,gawping in horror & spluttering " Good heavens Walker,so that's what's underneath a Scotsman's kilt!" (cue the credits!)
He patently had a VERY good view!!! :o
Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 02:25:16 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604870#msg604870)
(But then, as Johan will no doubt tell you....I am, supposedly, not possessed of a huge sense of humour ;D )
Tell? O no, that secret is very safe with me, Colin. ;D
>Quote from: cilgwyn on February 26, 2012, 04:30:03 PM
Surely not as funny,Johan,as the last line of Dads Army,the other week,with Cpt Mannering,gawping in horror & spluttering " Good heavens Walker,so that's what's underneath a Scotsman's kilt!" (cue the credits!)
He patently had a VERY good view!!! :o
:D
Regarding the 11th Symphony, it should be noted that it is a programmatic work related to the myth of Ixion. Depicting a gruesome fate of eternal torment with no chance at redemption might be one of those moments that warrant music trying to be both static and of certain unpleasantness; in that regard, if the music manages to be in some aspects repulsive to the listener, as I gather from some of the above comments, I think it's to the work's credit. The Ixion myth itself holds enough bizarre elements (even by Greek mythological standards) that beg for a similar musical treatment – something more easily said than accomplished. I find that this work holds a certain bizarre allure with its obsessive character and almost demonic soundworld that reflects its subject matter in a legitimate way, without at the same time being musically banal or unremarkable - if only for its sheer audacious obsessiveness with its thematic material and extravagant soundscape.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 25, 2012, 08:41:40 AM
'Danish Havergal Brian'
As already mentioned, I believe this analogy is only valid in terms of relative neglect - and the often intractable need of commentators for the catchy (no matter how inaccurate) image/metaphor - rather than being based on any actual musical similarities; at least I don't see any underlying connection between Langgaard's and Brian's worldview, aesthetic or music.
I don't find the tune of the Ixion unpleasant; it is just rather vapid and the structure of the work is very stupid musically. If I had never heard of anything else by Langaard I would sincerely rate him as something close to an idiot based on that work. I have written better stuff and I write garbage.
Quote from: Winky Willy on February 27, 2012, 10:12:01 AM
I don't find the tune of the Ixion unpleasant;
it is just rather vapid and the structure of the work is very stupid musically.
Sounds like you do find the music unpleasant after all. Unpleasantness can be not only aural (and I was not referring to the main theme only either) but structural as well. I think that it is deliberately absurd, a study in grotesquerie as it were (in par with the grotesqueness of Ixion's fate). A surprisingly extreme reaction such as yours gives me the impression that the piece is indeed more successful in this domain than I thought.
To think that the work is also without merit is of course your prerogative. However, such extreme frustration about a work you clearly don't get is rather surprising; surely it can't be your first one.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 26, 2012, 02:04:28 PM
Yes..and that is a problem for me :D Jeffrey's phrase- "two eccentric loners persevering in the face of public and music establishment indifference" ;D
Now I am not actually sure that I would characterise Brian as 'eccentric', Langgaard yes! But this image is one which has been built up since these composers died and since their music came to be revived. It is a powerful image and there is an attraction to it. Some of us empathise strongly with the image and support, with sometimes boundless enthusiasm, the rehabilitation of the composers and their music. The music may indeed deserve the encomia lavished on it by its fanatical supporters-Brian's certainly does, Langgaard's I am not quite so sure of.
But there are two problems. One if that the critical musical establishment reacts by closing ranks against the lobby of enthusiasts, characterising them as equally 'eccentric' devotees of a justifiably ignored mediocrity. That, I can live with. The second problem-which I regard as more serious, even if less often discussed-is that, in expending so much energy and enthusiasm in extolling the merits of these composers, we tend to have less time, less enthusiasm for other fine composers whose personal stories cannot so readily be transformed into the stuff of myth. These people worked away, perhaps enjoying brief periods of, if not fame, then acceptance before falling out of fashion and into comparative neglect. They are not necessarily colourful characters, we can weave no web of mystery about them, sometimes indeed we know very little about them. But is their music to be rated as so much poorer because they do not attract people to write screeds and screeds about them?
In short(hah ;D) while Havergal Brian attracts well in excess of 200 pages on this forum and Langgaard 13, other worthy composers struggle to get half a dozen comments in total.
And it is this which worries me :(
Point taken Colin - Brian just persevered in the face of indifference whereas you only have to look at the photo of Langgaard in the Chandos symphonies 4-6 booklet to realise that he was a nutter (I admire him all the more for it).
Very pc,Vandermolen! ;D :o Although,I note you,"admire him all the more for that"! Incidentally,so much has been written about Langgaard's 'nuttiness',I wonder whether he actually did suffer from what would be referred to nowadays (but probably not down the boozer!) as suffering from a 'mental health problem',or was he just,simply, a VERY strange person?
There is a fine line. I mean,was it just his personality or an undiagnosed mental health issue,I wonder?
Just imagine,he might have been given tablets now?!!! And if so,I wonder what they would have done to his output?
I remember reading that Van Gogh's creative output was affected by his state of mind. If he was well he did allot of painting,if he was unwell he painted less. Or maybe,it was the other around (I read it somewhere,possibly in the TLS?)
Would a well balanced Rued have been a more boring,or better,composer?
I am reading 'Bruckner Remembered' at the moment, edited by Stephen Johnson. I think Bruckner was a far stranger man than Langgaard ever was. I have read Langgaard's biography, and though he certainly was eccentric, I don't think he was a 'nutter'. There are weird things in his music, as you encounter in Brian's music, too, but that just makes his music the unique thing it is. What has always struck me most about Langgaard is how sensuous and beautiful his music can be. The man's 'soul' was very pure.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 27, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
I am reading 'Bruckner Remembered' at the moment, edited by Stephen Johnson. I think Bruckner was a far stranger man than Langgaard ever was. I have read Langgaard's biography, and though he certainly was eccentric, I don't think he was a 'nutter'. There are weird things in his music, as you encounter in Brian's music, too, but that just makes his music the unique thing it is. What has always struck me most about Langgaard is how sensuous and beautiful his music can be. The man's 'soul' was very pure.
Yes,as if the music was some kind of escape,possibly cathartic,from his tortuous existence! It probably helped keep him as level headed (!) as he was,even though,it was his music which was the cause of so much of his frustration.
Quote from: Wanderer on February 27, 2012, 10:56:04 AMSounds like you do find the music unpleasant after all. Unpleasantness can be not only aural (and I was not referring to the main theme only either) but structural as well. I think that it is deliberately absurd, a study in grotesquerie as it were (in par with the grotesqueness of Ixion's fate). A surprisingly extreme reaction such as yours gives me the impression that the piece is indeed more successful in this domain than I thought.
This reminds me of the anecdote about the woman who said of Ravel's Bolero, "This is trash!", to which he replied, "But of course - that's the point."
(^ - A very approximate rendering of the story from memory.)
Torville and Dean or Bo Derek (in her prime) to Langgaard's 'Ixiom'! The mind......erm,boggles!!! :o I shudder at the former!!!!
Well,I located 'Ixiom',and it's on repeat now. This has to be the shortest appraisal of a symphony (for me,anyway) ever. Six minutes,or so,and it's onto the repeat!!!
What do I think of it? Well,I'm SO angry I'm frothing at the mouth,rolling around the floor & chewing the carpet!
Seriously,I LOVE IT! I think this could be addictive. Maybe,I'll even end up wearing an ixiom patch on my arm! That growly,Beethovenian grumpiness you get in Ludwig's noisy bits like the fast bits of his Seventh symphony,with those 'jigs'! It's how I feel sometimes,when I see some child screaming or crying in a street or cafe & I think "I wish I could do that too!",but I can't because I'm an adult & I'd get arrested or.......sent somewhere else! :o
If I was feeling Steve Irwin 'gwumpy',and I was a symphony orchestra,this is what I might sound like!
It's loud & VERY ANGRY,but it beats 'Das Siegeslied' any day........and it's a heck of allot shorter!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
Imagine encoring this at a concert! You could have six encores & still be back in time for supper!
And THAT ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :)
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see your conflation of Ixion and axiom, cilgwyn!
IxioN! :o OOPS! I was just SO excited by this truly terrible & very,very short (AND LOUD) piece of music!!!!!!!
This is fantastic! :)
Is there a doctor in the house?I need an Ixion patch!!!!! :o
Is that an ambulance outside?!!!! :o
Ok,that's enough! Schubert next!!!! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on
Today at 01:19:20 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg605223#msg605223)
Ok,that's enough! Schubert next!!!! ;D
Are they playing that in your ward?
;D No,Lady Gaga! :o
Actually,I'm playing Mahler's first symphony,now. Sanity! Sanity! After 'Axiom'...I mean,'Ixion!',those opening bars feel like a cooling balm!
I might not need an 'Ixion' patch,after all. Pheeew!!! :o ;D
I am not- thank God- a Langgaard expert ;D
....but two things-
"Ixion" was, if I recall, not a title given to the symphony by Langgaard himself but by his widow after the composer's death. He had given the symphony a whole host of remarkable titles involving various permutations of 'Sun', 'Satan', 'Devil', 'Terror', Lightening' etc etc. ;D
If it is intended to be a joke then it is a joke in remarkably poor taste....and, needless to say, I don't get it ;D To me, it is vacuous, banal and really pretty dreadful music.
Sometimes I think we can elevate eccentricity into genius when it is nothing of the sort.
Thank you Dundonnell for being right.
Indeed! I have had the complete set of Langgaard symphonies for some time and I have listened to them all;but for some reason this one,somehow,passed me by.
Thanks to these posts I put the 'Ixion' ON repeat! ;D Well,actually,I have nice Sennheiser cordless headphones,so I wasn't near the off button! Nevertheless,for some strange reason,I DID actually enjoy the piece! :o I think,I actually typed words like "fantastic" & 'yeeeehooooo!",even if that IS a word! :o
But even if you DO actually enjoy this 'symphony' is it really only because it's a wacky novelty? A sort of symphonic equivalent of a 'clever' (well he COULD score for a symphony orchestra!) 'party piece'?
As I observed,once the 'excitement' had died down;after 'Ixiom',the opening bars of Mahler's First felt like a cooling balm!!!!! :) :) :)
More Mahler tomorrow,I think!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Winky Willy on February 27, 2012, 04:33:47 PM
Thank you Dundonnell for being right.
:) :) :) :)
Oh....I usually am :) :)
(What was that about Ixion...chained to a flaming wheel as a punishment for hubris ;D)
Like I said,more Mahler tomorrow! :)
Anyone who can be so rude about Carl Nielsen gets a big black mark in my book :o
Hmm, I need to relisten - it was one of the late works that stood out most to me when I initially began his cycle, I found it fun.
Edit: I recall why - it's like a viginette of bubbling magma, I can understand the silly nicknames he gave it now. The forced ending is actually really funny, on a Haydnesque level.
Quote from: Lethevich on February 28, 2012, 06:18:08 AM
Hmm, I need to relisten
Me too....but only because I have no memory of it. I must have listened to it sometime but it escapes me now. Anyway, I must hear what all the fuss is about.
Sarge
My idea of Hell would be listening to this symphony on endless repeat ;D
(Or indeed having to listen to the Rachmaninov Symphony No.2 and Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3 ;D I could put up with MOST Delius rather than have to listen to endless Rachmaninov. How the composer of masterpieces like the First Symphony, "The Bells" or "The Isle of the Dead" could end up writing such saccharine-drenched pap is quite beyond me ::))
I couldn't resist playing No.12 and Sphynx on the same Stupel disc - all much the same length. I preferred Sphynx* Sphinx to both the numbered symphonies, very broody. For all its conciseness and the rich programme, Hélsingeborg always goes in one ear and out the other for me :-X
*Why do I always make this typo -_-
I like the Twelfth for most of its length, but - it doesn't go anywhere, it is literally 'pointless'. Sphinx is the better work, I agree, but not by a very wide margin... Symphonies 2-6, 9, 10, 13, 14 and 16 are the ones I return to most often. Eleven out of sixteen isn't bad. And 7, 8 and 15 have their charms, too.
As for old Rued being Rude about Carl - artists aren't always very complimentary about each other. For all my love of Langgaard, Nielsen achieved more than he, no doubt about it. But Langgaard has a warmth which I find a bit lacking in Nielsen's greatest symphonies (4-6).
And I repeat (once again ;D ;D) that I am delighted that you find so much to enjoy in the music, Johan :)
Just because I happen to be physically sick at the taste or smell of an onion does not mean that others should not eat and enjoy that particular vegetable :)
The same premise applies to music :)
Quote from: Lethevich on February 28, 2012, 06:45:39 AM
*Why do I always make this typo -_-
Maybe you have a old German soul, crying out for the return of the Y 8) (The spelling of many German words was officially changed last century; the Y abolished.) One of my favorite vintners has been fighting the good fight for twenty years, insisting on spelling Silvaner with a y even though it gets him into trouble with the wine authorities. :D
Sarge
Quote from: Lethevich on February 28, 2012, 06:45:39 AM
I couldn't resist playing No.12 and Sphynx on the same Stupel disc - all much the same length. I preferred Sphynx* Sphinx to both the numbered symphonies, very broody.
After "Ixion" I got sidetracked by "The Cat." I'll go back to the Stupel disc after dinner tonight and check out....Sphynx ;)
Sarge
Re. artistic relationships - after all, Chopin had nothing nice to say about anyone but we like him :)
The symphonies I especially admire are 5, 6, 10 and 15, but have recently made much ground with 2-4 and 13.
I used to consider No.10 and No.13 as complimentary, but No.6 has been edging its way in between them. They seem to represent a core style, elementally grand, also extremely "integrated", but with an almost alien quality, a lack of real-world reference. Perhaps No.16 could join them too.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 28, 2012, 07:02:45 AM
Maybe you have a old German soul, crying out for the return of the Y 8) (The spelling of many German words was officially changed last century; the Y abolished.) One of my favorite vintners has been fighting the good fight for twenty years, insisting on spelling Silvaner with a y even though it gets him into trouble with the wine authorities. :D
Now that just sounds like a town in Lord of the Rings or something :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 28, 2012, 06:40:57 AM
My idea of Hell would be listening to this symphony on endless repeat ;D
(Or indeed having to listen to the Rachmaninov Symphony No.2 and Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3 ;D I could put up with MOST Delius rather than have to listen to endless Rachmaninov. How the composer of masterpieces like the First Symphony, "The Bells" or "The Isle of the Dead" could end up writing such saccharine-drenched pap is quite beyond me ::))
Give me the Holbrooke version,any day!(Got that one! ;D)
Ahem! I listened to 'Ixon' ON (! ;D these names! :o) repeat,so maybe I'm already there,Dundonnell! :( I actually LOVED it at the time! But funnily enough,I'm not sure I want to go back to it,today! I DO wonder,even IF you like it,is it just a 'clever' novelty?
To be fair,it must rate as one of THE most truly bonkers piece of music I have ever heard! After ten listens,I was on the verge of 'booking in' myself!
By the way,I'm in Ward Six! ;D
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 26, 2012, 07:50:36 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604837#msg604837)
Interesting post, Colin. I'd like to say the following:
Art isn't democratic. Every artist likes to be the centre of attention, and only a handful succeeds. A minority survives death. Why? There must be something in the work - not just the life - which fascinates and merits repeated viewings, readings, listens. There must be abundance, mastery, vitality, mystery. If an artist possesses all these attributes, he will continue to attract new 'customers', whatever the critics say. That many artists are not so lucky can't be helped - life is short and you must make choices. That's why I do think that comparing artists is useful - it sharpens critical awareness and it saves time...
Thanks for this post, Johan.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 01, 2012, 06:11:05 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 26, 2012, 07:50:36 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg604837#msg604837) Interesting post, Colin. I'd like to say the following:
Art isn't democratic. Every artist likes to be the centre of attention, and only a handful succeeds. A minority survives death. Why? There must be something in the work - not just the life - which fascinates and merits repeated viewings, readings, listens. There must be abundance, mastery, vitality, mystery. If an artist possesses all these attributes, he will continue to attract new 'customers', whatever the critics say. That many artists are not so lucky can't be helped - life is short and you must make choices. That's why I do think that comparing artists is useful - it sharpens critical awareness and it saves time...
Thanks for this post, Johan.
Karl: I presume that what you mean by thanking Johan for his post is that you not only agree with the views being expressed but regard those views as having some particular value or significance.
You are fully entitled to such an opinion and such an evaluation. I regard you both as friends :) but I have some serious issues with Johan's post quoted above.
I agree that "Art is not democratic" but disagree that "every artist likes to be the centre of attention". I am not even sure that I understand exactly what is meant or intended by such a statement ???
Of course the following two statements about the "abundance, mastery, vitality, mystery" possessed by the music which attracts the devotees of that particular composer's music and allows it to survive is self-evidently true, even if the number of such devotees may remain obstinately small or may fluctuate from generation to generation.
What I dispute, perhaps even profoundly dispute, is the statement "that many artists are not so lucky can't be helped". Is there an assumption in that statement that their lack of such good fortune is axiomatically because their music suffers from an absence of the very qualities listed above ??? If that were really the case then luck or good fortune doesn't enter into it. The good composers survive because they are good, the others sink and are denied recognition because they are not good. That is manifestly untrue.
Of course Havergal Brian's music, for example, is 'good' and deserves exposure but he was extremely fortunate in having champions with the wonderful ability to fight his cause so effectively. To then argue that other 'good' but relatively forgotten composers have to just endure their bad luck in not having such effective and well-placed champions or that they cannot be
that good because they have failed to find such advocates, I would seriously dispute.
Yes...life is indeed short and one must make choices :) But one cannot make informed choices about the respective merits of composers and their music without being given the opportunity to actually study or better, hear that music. That is why I-in my miniscule, amateurish and frequently ineffective and perhaps pedestrian way-try to fight the corner for a whole range of composers, as I have done for some years on here and elsewhere. Sometimes, perhaps even often, such composers-on increased exposure to their music-turn out to be disappointing or uneven. In other cases their neglect is unjustified and their cause requires advocacy.
That advocacy or "help" is not something I have the ability, the eloquence, the power to do very much to provide......but, by heaven, I shall never give up as long as I draw breath!!
Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 12:19:26 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg606021#msg606021)
I agree that "Art is not democratic" but disagree that "every artist likes to be the centre of attention."
Well, the way I understood Johan here, Colin (and I indeed think of you both as good friends whom I've not yet had the opportunity to meet) is actually, every artist wishes his work to be the center of attention. That is, as a composer myself, I want audiences to listen to my work; and when they are listening to it, I wish their attention to be undivided. Maybe the listener won't like my music, but please, listen to it. I didn't take Johan's brief remark as at all impugning the character of all artists . . . .
Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 12:19:26 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg606021#msg606021)
. . . The good composers survive because they are good, the others sink and are denied recognition because they are not good. That is manifestly untrue.
I think that Johan agrees, and I certainly do; so I don't think you've quite derived this from his wee paragraph . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on
Today at 17:26:30 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg606023#msg606023) Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 12:19:26 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg606021#msg606021)
. . . The good composers survive because they are good, the others sink and are denied recognition because they are not good. That is manifestly untrue.
I think that Johan agrees, and I certainly do; so I don't think you've quite derived this from his wee paragraph . . . .I do. Karl understood me aright. The survival of artists is a very messy business. There are terrific artists, alive and dead, who deserve a lot more exposure. They don't get it for all kinds of reasons, very often nothing to do with the quality of their work. That's where luck and the right circumstances come in. I do think, though, that in the end 'quality will out' and will always find fresh advocates.
P.S. As for the artist wanting to be the 'centre of attention', I meant it as Karl understood it. I am not impugning the character of all artists. The fact remains, though, that artists are in competition with each other for the love of an audience. Every artist is a suitor.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 27, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
"Ixion" was, if I recall, not a title given to the symphony by Langgaard himself but by his widow after the composer's death.
"...on the basis of an unreasoned note from her husband's hand." It sounds legitimate enough.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 27, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
He had given the symphony a whole host of remarkable titles involving various permutations of 'Sun', 'Satan', 'Devil', 'Terror', Lightening' etc etc. ;D
Not surprising. In some versions of the myth, Ixion is given demonic status. Either way, the connotations aren't essentially different.
Another interesting fact:
Langgaard sent the score to the broadcasting network with a vain request for a performance and refused from that day onward to take it back. ;D
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on March 01, 2012, 09:31:54 AM
The survival of artists is a very messy business. There are terrific artists, alive and dead, who deserve a lot more exposure. They don't get it for all kinds of reasons, very often nothing to do with the quality of their work. That's where luck and the right circumstances come in. I do think, though, that in the end 'quality will out' and will always find fresh advocates.
Quoted for truth; and very succinctly put. 8)
SPF (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20108.msg606584/topicseen.html#msg606584), really. (* nods to Heavy Metal Dave *)
Antikrist, BTW, is über-bitchin'. But many of you knew that already.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 02, 2012, 11:07:47 AM
Antikrist, BTW, is über-bitchin'. But many of you knew that already.
Yes, it's
über-bitchin' alright. 8)
I may have coined that. Or maybe it's been done before . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on March 02, 2012, 11:12:02 AM
I may have coined that. Or maybe it's been done before . . . .
Whoever coined it is über cool. :)
Quote from: vandermolen on February 27, 2012, 11:09:25 AM
Point taken Colin - Brian just persevered in the face of indifference whereas you only have to look at the photo of Langgaard in the Chandos symphonies 4-6 booklet to realise that he was a nutter (I admire him all the more for it).
Chronically short trousers - if I recall correctly. ::)
We should draw a distinction between off his chump and fashion-challenged.
Got to be crazy to wear short trousers.......especially if you've got knobbly knees!
Perhaps they shrunk in the wash?
Yeh, yeh, yeh, yeh.................
You see to my mind this just demonstrates my point ;D
Langgaard may indeed be an eminently worthy composer, perhaps even a fine composer, with moments of genius interspersed with moments of banal mediocrity BUT we talk about him, and talk about him and on and on it goes........... And some of the talk is occasioned-let's be honest- by the fact of his eccentricity and general oddity.
And because we talk about him people who had never heard of him get interested and go away and buy his music. And the more people who buy the cds etc etc.........
And we have another composer whose life, character, personality has no such colour, nothing to post about on here which is going to get people smiling and intrigued BUT whose music MAY be just as good but because he has not yet found a persuasive advocate: a writer, a conductor, a radio music producer, the adventurous owner of a small record label, he has to languish in relative obscurity until.........when exactly????
From your (friendly) old humourless neighbourhood curmudgeon ;D
Did Peter Racine Fricker wear any funny clothes?
Anyone know? ;D
I'd be VERY interested!!! :)
If he wore his pants over his trousers it could increase interest in this very worthy composer!
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 02, 2012, 03:39:00 PM
And we have another composer whose life, character, personality has no such colour, nothing to post about on here which is going to get people smiling and intrigued BUT whose music MAY be just as good but because he has not yet found a persuasive advocate: a writer, a conductor, a radio music producer, the adventurous owner of a small record label, he has to languish in relative obscurity until.........when exactly????
So true. But I'm also confident that in the (no matter how short or) long run quality will always shine through no matter how many levels of obscurity fate throws at it. 8)
Quote from: karlhenning on March 02, 2012, 11:07:47 AM
Antikrist, BTW, is über-bitchin'. But many of you knew that already.
My vote for "Post of the Month" :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 02, 2012, 03:39:00 PM
Yeh, yeh, yeh, yeh.................
You see to my mind this just demonstrates my point ;D
Langgaard may indeed be an eminently worthy composer, perhaps even a fine composer, with moments of genius interspersed with moments of banal mediocrity BUT we talk about him, and talk about him and on and on it goes........... And some of the talk is occasioned-let's be honest- by the fact of his eccentricity and general oddity.
And because we talk about him people who had never heard of him get interested and go away and buy his music. And the more people who buy the cds etc etc.........
And we have another composer whose life, character, personality has no such colour, nothing to post about on here which is going to get people smiling and intrigued BUT whose music MAY be just as good but because he has not yet found a persuasive advocate: a writer, a conductor, a radio music producer, the adventurous owner of a small record label, he has to languish in relative obscurity until.........when exactly????
From your (friendly) old humourless neighbourhood curmudgeon ;D
You're cheerings us all up here,Dundonnell!!!! :( :( :(
Incidentally,I agree with everything you say in this post!
Sometimes I wish Daniel Jones and Charles Tournemire had a been a bit wierder! There probably would have been a couple of complete symphonic cycle's to choose from,by now!
But then again,than goodness they weren't (wierd!)!!! ;D
Knudage Riisager's another one who might have benefited from being a bit wierder! :o
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 02, 2012, 08:39:00 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg606716#msg606716)
. . . Langgaard may indeed be an eminently worthy composer, perhaps even a fine composer, with moments of genius interspersed with moments of banal mediocrity BUT we talk about him, and talk about him and on and on it goes........... And
some of the talk is occasioned-let's be honest- by the fact of his eccentricity and general oddity.
Well, none of mine. Though that does not disprove your point, old fruit : )
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 05, 2012, 11:45:16 AM
Knudage Riisager's another one who might have benefited from being a bit wierder! :o
Knudage Riisager...with a name like that, does he
need to be weirder?
Sarge
If I'd been given a name like that . . . "Lady Ga-Ga" would seem an improvement!
Are you seriously suggesting that there is something strange about the name Knudage Riisager?!!!! If you were living in a small town or city in Denmark I'm sure you'd be very proud to be known and referred to as a Knudage! In fact I'm sure there are towns and villages where Knudage is a very popular name & where you would encounter people addressing each other as Knudage on a regular basis! In fact,if you think about it,the Danish telephone books are probably full of Knudages!
Or should I say,Riisagers?!!!
Are you inferring that Knudage was a Knudage?!!!!!!
By all accounts,Knudage Riisager was a very level headed guy who wouldn't have been seen dead walking around town at three in the morning in too short trousers,even if anyone had been up at that time of the morning to see him wearing them!
Well done for defending the rights of Danes to their names however strange they might seem to people called S.R. and K.H.-both of whom, I believe, hale from a country full of people with quite extraordinary names ;D
Thankyou,Dundonnell! Sometimes I know EXACTLY how you feel! :( Anyway,it could have been worse,it could have been Rued Langgaard!!! :o ;D
Indeed some of the names on tv programmes from the country you refer to have some names in the credits that really make you're eyes pop! 'Chip',is only one choice example! (Presumably,wrapped in a piece of newspaper with salt & vinegar!!!) And Chuck? You've got to laugh,haven't you? Mind you.if Chuck Norris posts here,I'm sorry! :( :o
As to the more sensibly named,Knud Riisager,who was apparently born in Estonia,I have, just this minute,downloaded a cd of his orchestral music!
Ahem! Now where's that Region 1 dvd box set I ordered?!!! :o
Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 12:14:17 AM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg607741#msg607741)
Well done for defending the rights of Danes to their names however strange they might seem to people called S.R. and K.H.-both of whome, I believe, hale from a country full of people with quite extraordinary names ;D
Reference here (http://www.firezine.net/issue3/fz3_04.htm) to the Funny Names Clubs of America . . . .
QuoteDiscussion by the Rev. Dr. Me, of the Church of Me out in Bluing, Ariz. titled We're Not A Damn Cult!
Back in 1972 the Majority Leader in the U.S. House of Representatives was a gentleman called Hale Boggs :-X :-X
Exactly how long did he carry on for,Dundonnell?!
He must have felt flushed! :o
That was back in the good old days when toilets had real chains! :)
This can only get worse! :(
He disappeared in Alaska, I am afraid :(
I just googled 'Boggs'. I will,however, draw a veil over some of the search results!!! :o
Hale Boggs got me his Wikipedia entry! A bit mysterious,really. Not quite as exciting as DB Copper,though. No parachuting out!
(http://www.havetravelfun.com/images/2005/uk/uk271.jpg)
another classic ... :D
Wikipedia says:
The name means: [St.] Mary's Church (Llanfair) [in] the hollow (pwll) of the white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the rapid whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) [and] the church of [St.] Tysilio (llantysilio) with a red cave ([a]g ogo goch)
On Facebook just now Andrew Mellor posted to the Rued Langgaard Group (of which I am a member):
Managed to persuade my colleague James Jolly to play Langgaard's Second Symphony on BBC Radio 3 this coming Sunday. Langgaard fans, listen out!
Quote from: DieNacht on
Today at 01:21:02 PM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg607874#msg607874)
>(http://www.havetravelfun.com/images/2005/uk/uk271.jpg)
another classic ... :D
Wikipedia says:
The name means: [St.] Mary's Church (Llanfair) [in] the hollow (pwll) of the white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the rapid whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) [and] the church of [St.] Tysilio (llantysilio) with a red cave ([a]g ogo goch)
Four L's in a row, yo!
We like them nice and snappy,round here! ;D
I remember going there once on the train. By the time I'd finished telling the ticket office my destination the train had gone! :(
Blink and you'll miss it! :(
I have seen the station with my own eyes... When I was in Wales, my (ex-)wife and I inadvertently took the wrong train from Bangor, going to Holyhead instead of Crewe. We passed through it.
Not merely is that 'the wrong train' but it goes it precisely and exactly the opposite direction ;D ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on
Today at 00:58:16 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg607971#msg607971)
Not merely is that 'the wrong train' but it goes it precisely and exactly the opposite direction ;D ;D
Indeed. It was quite stupid, though we liked seeing Anglesey. ;D
Luckily,it's usually referred to as 'Lllanfairpwll',for short!!! :)
Let's return to... Llanggaard.
Or,by his full name (not so well known!) Rued Llangaardasiliogogogoch! ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 06, 2012, 04:26:04 AM
Hale Boggs
When I read that name, I thought: he had to be from Mississippi or Louisiana. Funny how that works :D
Sarge
It's a darn good name! ;D
One-syllable names would never fly in Wales . . . .
This funny name thing is getting to me! I just (inadvertantly) put flippin' Hale Boggs into the search engine! >:( :(
Hideo Gump would be proud!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 07, 2012, 03:06:34 AM
When I read that name, I thought: he had to be from Mississippi or Louisiana. Funny how that works :D
Sarge
Quite :)
I also like the name (though not the personality) of the former Mississippi Senator,
Theodore G. Bilbo ;D Then there was Senator
Wall Doxey and, of course, in more modern times,
Trent Lott. All Mississippians :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 07, 2012, 05:31:15 AM
Theodore G. Bilbo
... who really should have just been sent back to the Shire on an iron barge ...
:D
Ixion would be a better name for a town,come to think of it!
Q: So where are you from?
A: I'm from IXION! :) :o ;D
And probably wearing a cape,tights & the letter 'I' emblazoned on my chest! :o
I am wondering whether to take Schubert off and put 'Ixion' ON again? Maybe not! :o :o :o
Maybe Langgaard should have called it,'IXIOFF!' :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on
Today at 12:37:42 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg608868#msg608868)
I am wondering whether to take Schubert off and put 'Ixion' ON again? Maybe not! :o :o :o
Maybe Langgaard should have called it,'IXIOFF!' :)
;D
Quote from: eyeresist on February 27, 2012, 02:07:52 PM
This reminds me of the anecdote about the woman who said of Ravel's Bolero, "This is trash!", to which he replied, "But of course - that's the point."
(^ - A very approximate rendering of the story from memory.)
I've just read somewhere that Langgaard's Eleventh symphony 'Ixion',which,judging by the comments on this thread,evokes quite a heated debate for a six minute work ;D,is to be performed at the Proms!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Hope this wasn't an April Fool! :( ;D
Or maybe,depending on you're point of view here,I should be hoping it is!!!! ;D
This won't use up too much of a D90 cassette tape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I might even summon up the courage to put it on,today. This evening,I mean! ;D
IXION!
Brave man! (I don't hate the work myself. It doesn't amount to much, but it's fun)
Wow, was courage required, there?
It will be played in this year's Proms...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2012/july-28/14326 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2012/july-28/14326)
You're making me feel like the Lion in the old 'Wizard of Oz' movie!
"All,I need is courage........COURAGE (bitter?)".
Six minutes of Langgaard. Worth a trip on a plane,Johan?!!! ;D
Five minutes! Even more value for you're plane flight money!
Quote from: cilgwyn on
Today at 21:14:57 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg630207#msg630207)
You're making me feel like the Lion in the old 'Wizard of Oz' movie!
"All,I need is courage........COURAGE (bitter?)".
Six minutes of Langgaard. Worth a trip on a plane,Johan?!!! ;D
I think I'll skip that one... ;)
Btw, I had a short conversation online with Andrew Mellor from the Gramophone magazine, on Facebook. We're both members of the Langgaard group. He wrote today: "More Langgaard on the BBC! James Jolly will play the Eleventh Symphony this Sunday morning on Radio 3 as a taster for the upcoming Proms performance." I reacted: " 'Gift horse' and all that, but I wish they had chosen the preceding symphony. 'Ixion' is fun, but Langgaard can do so much better." To which he replied: "I agree Johan - perhaps it's because we are getting it live here in the summer, and because it's short! James Jolly is fast becoming a true Langgaardian so we can hope for more."
There's a Langgaard group on Facebook? (Wouldn't it be scary to find that I am already a member, and didn't realize it? . . .)
You're not taking 3 am strolls or wearing 'too- short' trousers,I hope?
No signs of religious mania?
Overpowering feeling of jealous rage towards a fellow musician or composer?
:o
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 17, 2012, 11:24:13 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on Today at 21:14:57 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg630207#msg630207)You're making me feel like the Lion in the old 'Wizard of Oz' movie!
"All,I need is courage........COURAGE (bitter?)".
Six minutes of Langgaard. Worth a trip on a plane,Johan?!!! ;D
I think I'll skip that one... ;)
Btw, I had a short conversation online with Andrew Mellor from the Gramophone magazine, on Facebook. We're both members of the Langgaard group. He wrote today: "More Langgaard on the BBC! James Jolly will play the Eleventh Symphony this Sunday morning on Radio 3 as a taster for the upcoming Proms performance." I reacted: " 'Gift horse' and all that, but I wish they had chosen the preceding symphony. 'Ixion' is fun, but Langgaard can do so much better." To which he replied: "I agree Johan - perhaps it's because we are getting it live here in the summer, and because it's short! James Jolly is fast becoming a true Langgaardian so we can hope for more."
This reminds me a bit of a blurb on the R3 website,a while back,bemoaning the neglect of Daniel Jones! ::) And now we're going to get MORE Langgaard on the Beeb! More meaning,FIVE (or,is it 6?)minutes? Wow! That's generous!!!!
If they're not careful,they won't have any room left in their schedule! ;D
I never until to-day marked what close contemporaries Langgaard and Prokofiev were! — 1893-1952 & 1891-1953.
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 17, 2012, 10:49:35 AM
It will be played in this year's Proms...
Pity. I don't know much about Langgaard, but the enthusiasm articulated so well in this thread, and the *beautiful* excerpt from the Four Tone Pictures, have persuaded me to investigate his music.
I don't think that exposing his 11th symphony to a till-now largely indifferent public will do him any favours :(
Hello, Darwin! Thanks for perusing this, sometimes rambling, thread. And do investigate Langgaard's music. You will have seen some recommendations.
I listened to Symphony No 4 in the car today - my favourite work by Langgaard.
Thats the one they should be doing (at the proms).By the way,which performance did you listen to,Vandermolen?
I rather like No 15. Anyone else like this one? It is very stirringly sung on the Dacapo cd. A strange,rather wild,but impressive piece of music. An example of the kind of Langgaard symphony which makes me think that,at his best,he does deserve to be taken more seriously than he does,too-short trousers,or not!
It would be great for a prom!
NB: Does anyone,completely & utterly, disagree with me?!!! ;D
Strange, rather wild, and impressive: that's our Rued!
I must make a second pass (and a third) through the symphonies, aye, I must.
Judging by the first movement (I'm giving 'er a listen here), it would make fine Proms fare, indeed.
But then: I'm a Yank; what do I know? ; )
All right, not at all sure why the Ruedster labels the second movement of the Fifteenth a "Scherzo"; it's quite a gentle waltz in character.
As you say,that's Rued! (Better than Ruedy?!)
The singing certainly does it for me. Years ago,(if this had been done,at all) this might have been done by Marco Polo,or some obscure Scandinavian label. It would have had a wobbly singer & the off button would have been pressed,or worse!
Wonder what his day job is? He's go-oo-od!!! :o ;D
Imagine him standing up,spotlit,at the Proms! He needs to be big shouldered,with a huge,bushy beard. Like a Danish version of Brian Blessed!
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 21, 2012, 09:12:27 AM
Imagine him standing up,spotlit,at the Proms! He needs to be big shouldered,with a huge,bushy beard.
But then: he'd probably be a clarinetist ; )
Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2012, 09:01:09 AMAll right, not at all sure why the Ruedster labels the second movement of the Fifteenth a "Scherzo"; it's quite a gentle waltz in character.
I have been thinking about writing a fairly noisy piece of music labeled as a Scherzo Adagio....
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 21, 2012, 08:43:33 AM
Thats the one they should be doing (at the proms).By the way,which performance did you listen to,Vandermolen?
I rather like No 15. Anyone else like this one? It is very stirringly sung on the Dacapo cd. A strange,rather wild,but impressive piece of music. An example of the kind of Langgaard symphony which makes me think that,at his best,he does deserve to be taken more seriously than he does,too-short trousers,or not!
It would be great for a prom!
NB: Does anyone,completely & utterly, disagree with me?!!! ;D
I listened to the Chandos version - which is my favourite Langgaard CD, although I have other performances of the work. I agree that Symphony No 4 should have been at the Proms - a missed opportunity. Other than 4-6 I rather like Symphony No 10 and The Music of the Spheres.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2012, 12:56:33 AM
I listened to the Chandos version - which is my favourite Langgaard CD, although I have other performances of the work. I agree that Symphony No 4 should have been at the Proms - a missed opportunity. Other than 4-6 I rather like Symphony No 10 and The Music of the Spheres.
same here ...
(and some of the piano works, plus other orchestral works, now and then ...)
In case anybody wonder:
Rued is not prononunced as "Rude" :o, but more like "Ruweth", the end being slightly softer and discreet than the English "-th" ::).
Quote from: DieNacht on 22-05-2012, 17:26:55 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=575.msg631362#msg631362)
same here ...
(and some of the piano works, plus other orchestral works, now and then ...)
In case anybody wonder:
Rued is not prononunced as "Rude" :o , but more like "Ruweth", the end being slightly softer and discreet than the English "-th" ::) .
And the R sounds different, of course... That Danish final D always sounds almost like a very light L to my ears...
Has anyone heard this new SACD of his string quartets? It's a knockout in terms of performance and sound. Gramophone gave it a rave review in the new issue.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PU3mgKPIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Good to know it is there. Who wrote the rave review? If it's Andrew Mellor, it comes as no surprise...
Quote from: karlhenning on May 17, 2012, 08:28:52 AM
Wow, was courage required, there?
Yes! I chickened out (of the Ixion)! :-[ :(
And this is how we won the war?!!! :o
Yellow & proud of it! 8)
Rued Awakenings (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/rued-awakenings)
If there ever was a proof how context can be essential when listening to music, it was Ixion. While it sounded far from horrible to my uninitiated ears, knowing the full story turns it into a fabulous piece.
Can't wait to fully delve into Langgaard's work. The only other thing I've heard is Music of the Spheres and it's already one of my favourites.
Music of the Spheres is fabulous, indeed, and quite exceptional, too, in Langgaard's oeuvre. His works are usually more conservative, but always quirky, inventive and fiery. As I have already said several times here on GMG, I prefer the Stupel readings of the symphonies, though not in the works where Danish is sung, then Dausgaard is better. Symphonies 4, 5 and 6 are excellent under Järvi (Chandos).
Our friend at 5against4 has posted the recent Proms performance of Ixion (Symphony No. 11) here:
http://5against4.com/2012/08/04/proms-2012-rued-langgaard-symphony-no-11-ixion-pelle-gudmundsen-holmgreen-incontri-uk-premieres/
Thanks for the link!
This shouldn't fly under your radar! The CD appears to have been released in Denmark but not internationally; it's available for streaming and downloading everywhere, though.
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.573068.jpg)
Nielsen, Carl [Videro, Finn - arranger(s)]
1. Fest-praeludium (Festival Prelude), FS 24, "Ved Aarhundredskiftet" (Turn of the Century) (arr. F. Videro for organ) 00:01:36
Langgaard, Rued
In tenebras exteriores, BVN 334 00:19:10
2. » No. 1. Blev begravet (Was buried) 00:06:09
3. » No. 2. I Dodsriget (In the Kingdom of Death) 00:03:52
4. » No. 3. Forbarm dig! (Have mercy!) 00:04:05
5. » No. 4. Kom i Hu! (Remember!) 00:05:04
6. Toccata, BVN 51 00:05:53
7. Ved Slotskirkens 100 Aars Jubilaeum SAMF, BVN 194b 00:04:23
8. Nemo contra deum nisi dus ipse - Fantasi (Nobody against God except God himself), BVN 217 00:12:04
Nielsen, Carl
9. Commotio, Op. 58, FS 155 00:23:44
Nice!
Thanks, Brian! It is almost moving to see the great adversaries (not that Carl ever knew or cared) side by side...
Time to dust the Lyre!
That Naxos disc is available at Amazon UK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outer-Darkness-Lighthouses-Philip-Schmidt-Madsen/dp/B00B8QSYM6/?tag=goodmusicguid-21), by the way.
Quote from: North Star on January 14, 2015, 09:14:03 AM
Time to dust the Lyre!
That Naxos disc is available at Amazon UK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outer-Darkness-Lighthouses-Philip-Schmidt-Madsen/dp/B00B8QSYM6/?tag=goodmusicguid-21), by the way.
Nice!
(And yes, high time!)
Langgaard is featured pretty heavily in the latest issue of The Strad, complete with a full-page portrait. For some reason they decided to go with having the Nightingale Quartet in the front cover, though..
[(http://www.thestrad.com/strad/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Jan15_Cover.png) (http://www.thestrad.com/current-issue/)
A couple of Langgaard disc reviews have appeared in the magazine before:
Gade: VC in D minor op.56. Lange-Müller: VC in C major op.69. Langgaard: VC November 1, 2009 (http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-reviews/romantic-violin-concertos-gade-violin-concerto-in-d-minor-op-56-lange-muller-violin-concerto-in-c-major-op-69-langgaard-violin-concerto/)
Langgaard: String Quartets vol.2: Rose Garden Play, String Quartets in A flat major & no.4 'Summer Days' July 14, 2014 (http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-reviews/langgaard-string-quartets-vol-2-rose-garden-play-string-quartets-in-a-flat-major-no-4-summer-days/)
Quote from: North Star on January 14, 2015, 09:30:18 AM
A couple of Langgaard disc reviews have appeared in the magazine before:
Gade: VC in D minor op.56. Lange-Müller: VC in C major op.69. Langgaard: VC November 1, 2009 (http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-reviews/romantic-violin-concertos-gade-violin-concerto-in-d-minor-op-56-lange-muller-violin-concerto-in-c-major-op-69-langgaard-violin-concerto/)
Langgaard: String Quartets vol.2: Rose Garden Play, String Quartets in A flat major & no.4 ‘Summer Days’ July 14, 2014 (http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-reviews/langgaard-string-quartets-vol-2-rose-garden-play-string-quartets-in-a-flat-major-no-4-summer-days/)
Thanks for the reminder viz. the string quartets . . . has (or have) any of us checked them out?
Quote from: karlhenning on January 15, 2015, 09:49:02 AM
Thanks for the reminder viz. the string quartets . . . has (or have) any of us checked them out?
Listening to Nightingale's vol. 3, SQ no. 1 (apparently they didn't record them in chronological order, or the ordering is messy for some reason) now on Spotify. 5 minutes into the first movement, the playing & recording are excellent (although the music is rather easygoing as of yet), and I have a feeling I'll like the music a fair bit, too. 8)
I feel I shall take the plunge there, ere long.
Listening to SQ no. 1 (Nightingales), the slow third movement is very haunting & beautiful.
This violin sonata disc comes highly recommended by Jens Laurson, and it was also recommended in that article in The Strad as one of three discs one should first get. One of the SQ volumes by the Nightingales must have been another one in the trio, I don't remember the third one.
[asin]B0000DJELU[/asin]
Fetching here from another thread:
Quote from: Rinaldo on April 28, 2015, 03:38:20 AM
Discuss.
https://www.youtube.com/v/us7fZdvQMxk
It's brief, it's in one movement, and it has a sort of program. So why a symphony, rather than a tone-poem?
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2015, 03:51:04 AMSo why a symphony, rather than a tone-poem?
My guess would be that it adds to the punchline.
Some notes on Ixion: Rued Awakenings (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/rued-awakenings)
Nice article, thanks.
I've really been enjoying Langgaard more and more these days (not that I ever disliked his music). It's taken me some time to appreciate his eclectic nature as a composer. Once I realized this is hyper-Romanticism at its most intense and concentrated, I finally was able to open up to the music, but I have never spoken ill of this composer. His neglect during his lifetime is one of those unfortunate things within classical music. His disdain for the popularity of fellow composer Carl Nielsen isn't without foundation as I believe he wanted people to be more open to newer composers with different ideas. Langgaard's music was just as accessible as Nielsen's IMHO, but, as often with national heroes, it is quite difficult to allow people to jump that hurdle and discover new music. So it is with great pleasure, and joy, that I join everyone here who loves this composer's music and one last statement: let the music play on! 8)
Very nice.
(I need to revisit that disc of his organ works . . . .)
Quote from: karlhenning on June 17, 2015, 08:14:17 AM
Very nice.
(I need to revisit that disc of his organ works . . . .)
I need to revisit the
Violin Sonatas, Volume 1 recording as I have
Volume 2 on the way. I recall really enjoying them on first-listen but that's been many years ago.
The disc in question:
(http://www.dacapo-records.dk/img/hires/8.224153.jpg)
Have you heard it, Karl?
I have not! But I have really enjoyed one of the string quartet discs . . . well enough, that fetching in the rest will be a matter of time . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on June 18, 2015, 04:02:14 AM
I have not! But I have really enjoyed one of the string quartet discs . . . well enough, that fetching in the rest will be a matter of time . . . .
What little I've heard from those new SQ recordings, they sound quite nice. Might pick them up myself (even though I'm not a particularly big fan of this instrumentation as I prefer a PQ or PQnt).
I find it ridiculous that Stupel's traversal of the symphonies hasn't been boxed up yet. Not that I'm in dire need of another set as Dausgaard's performances are tremendous. It just would be nice to hear a different take on these works.
The Sinfonia interna I am finding a touchingly beautiful work. It is not merely the old-fashioned-even-for-its-day musical language (face it: my ear is wilfully picky when it comes to lesser-known late Romantics, or retro-Romantics). The simplicity of the writing, the "guile-less art," the ease of manner . . . I am enchanted anew with Langgaard.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 25, 2016, 04:15:30 AM
The Sinfonia interna I am finding a touchingly beautiful work. It is not merely the old-fashioned-even-for-its-day musical language (face it: my ear is wilfully picky when it comes to lesser-known late Romantics, or retro-Romantics). The simplicity of the writing, the "guile-less art," the ease of manner . . . I am enchanted anew with Langgaard.
I must look out for this work
Karl.
Do you know the Chandos CD with symphonies 4-6 on? My favourite Langgaard CD.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 25, 2016, 04:35:38 AM
I must look out for this work Karl.
Do you know the Chandos CD with symphonies 4-6 on? My favourite Langgaard CD.
I do not,
Jeffrey; so I have not heard
Järvi conduct
Langgaard . . . worth giving it a try, thanks!
Quote from: karlhenning on August 25, 2016, 04:15:30 AM
The Sinfonia interna I am finding a touchingly beautiful work. It is not merely the old-fashioned-even-for-its-day musical language (face it: my ear is wilfully picky when it comes to lesser-known late Romantics, or retro-Romantics). The simplicity of the writing, the "guile-less art," the ease of manner . . . I am enchanted anew with Langgaard.
I totally concur with that. There is some ravishingly beautiful music in that. The way he uses the voices is marvellous. Yes,the inspiration is a little uneven in places,but who cares,when the good bits are that good! As Mae West said..........anyway ;D ;D. Superb performances. Wonderful singing. One of my favourite Langgaard cds;and a must for anyone curious about late romantically inclined musical byways! Absolutely enchanting......yes! Yes!! :) :)
Right, I've just ordered 'Sinfonia Interna' for £5.00 on Amazon UK.
Here is my favourite Langgaard CD:
[asin]B000000APJ[/asin]
It's dirt cheap, second hand, on the American Amazon site.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 25, 2016, 06:22:29 AM
Right, I've just ordered 'Sinfonia Interna' for £5.00 on Amazon UK.
Here is my favourite Langgaard CD:
[asin]B000000APJ[/asin]
It's dirt cheap, second hand, on the American Amazon site.
I saw that, and I should have a copy on Saturday, $4.75 total. That will make a pleasant occasion of revisiting the
Dausgaard symphonies box, too!
I went through several Langgard symphonies a good number of years ago: right now I am hearing the Sinfonia Interna: very nice song-symphony! The third movement is most impressive!
And did I hear an echo of the Pachelbel Canon in the last minute of the Second Movement? ;)
Quote from: vandermolen on August 25, 2016, 06:22:29 AM
Right, I've just ordered 'Sinfonia Interna' for £5.00 on Amazon UK.
Here is my favourite Langgaard CD:
[asin]B000000APJ[/asin]
It's dirt cheap, second hand, on the American Amazon site.
I think it's my favourite too! The
Sinfonia Interna is not far behind!! I also like the Dacapo cd of the Fourth and Versions i & ii,of the Fifth. I play that one after listening to the Chandos recordings of 4-6;so it's probably my second favourite Langgaard cd.
I love the Fifteenth with that baritone solo. The whole piece is so wild and strange. I find some of the music quite exciting.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 25, 2016, 06:31:56 AM
I saw that, and I should have a copy on Saturday, $4.75 total. That will make a pleasant occasion of revisiting the Dausgaard symphonies box, too!
Let us know what you think
Karl.
I've got the 'Sinfonia Internal' at the ready here!! I'm still trying to fathom Rufinatscha at the moment! Say what you like about his music......what a name!!! ???
Can't see allot of enthusiasm for Langgaard's Fifteenth here. A favourite of mine. Surely one of his most original creations. It's jam packed with great ideas,and so d*** wierd! The story behind it is similarly great. Thought up by Langgaard's on one of his nocturnal walks;he began sketching it out at four in the morning,when it was nice and quiet (lsensible chap) and finished the sketch at Seven the same morning! (Wonder what time he got up in the morning? IF he got up?!!) "In a preface to the symphony" he compares Ribe to Bruges". Bruges is the city described by George Rodenbach in his novel 'Bruges-la-morte' (which I've read,of course! ;D) which was a source of inspiration for Langgaard,and also for Korngold's 'Die Tote Stadt'. Rued Langgaard compares the experience of Ribe's mean,downtown,nocturnal streets to the legend of 'Orpheus and Euydice'. Feeling like Orpheus " rushing into the stormy night to visit the vanished Eurydice,but finding only "dead Ribe" The street lamps of Ribe signifying the "shades of the underworld","flickering strettlights and the sound of the cathedral......". In fact,just like where I live at four in the morning! But with loads of empty pint glasses,WKD bottles,pools of vomit and half empty fast food cartons,and no cathedral. Even the lightings the same! In fact,any more cuts and it could have the same low ambient lighting as Hades. The punch ups on the way home certainly belong there!! Nothing like a friendly,"Wot are you looking at mate?' when you're on the way home from your nightly tipple!!
Quote from: Cato on August 25, 2016, 06:53:02 AMAnd did I hear an echo of the Pachelbel Canon in the last minute of the Second Movement? ;)
Oh no, not again .... https://www.youtube.com/v/JdxkVQy7QLM
Quote from: Christo on August 26, 2016, 12:21:26 AM
Oh no, not again ....
https://www.youtube.com/v/JdxkVQy7QLM
OT
Very funny:
'They're all called Johan' 8)
Checking into this thread, as a bit of a Langgaard-head, myself.
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 25, 2016, 11:55:05 PM
I've got the 'Sinfonia Internal' at the ready here!! I'm still trying to fathom Rufinatscha at the moment! Say what you like about his music......what a name!!! ???
Can't see allot of enthusiasm for Langgaard's Fifteenth here. A favourite of mine. Surely one of his most original creations. It's jam packed with great ideas,and so d*** wierd! The story behind it is similarly great. Thought up by Langgaard's on one of his nocturnal walks;he began sketching it out at four in the morning,when it was nice and quiet (lsensible chap) and finished the sketch at Seven the same morning! (Wonder what time he got up in the morning? IF he got up?!!) "In a preface to the symphony" he compares Ribe to Bruges". Bruges is the city described by George Rodenbach in his novel 'Bruges-la-morte' (which I've read,of course! ;D ) which was a source of inspiration for Langgaard,and also for Korngold's 'Die Tote Stadt'. Rued Langgaard compares the experience of Ribe's mean,downtown,nocturnal streets to the legend of 'Orpheus and Euydice'. Feeling like Orpheus " rushing into the stormy night to visit the vanished Eurydice,but finding only "dead Ribe" The street lamps of Ribe signifying the "shades of the underworld","flickering strettlights and the sound of the cathedral......". In fact,just like where I live at four in the morning! But with loads of empty pint glasses,WKD bottles,pools of vomit and half empty fast food cartons,and no cathedral. Even the lightings the same! In fact,any more cuts and it could have the same low ambient lighting as Hades. The punch ups on the way home certainly belong there!! Nothing like a friendly,"Wot are you looking at mate?' when you're on the way home from your nightly tipple!!
All right! It is time I revisited the
Fifteenth! ;)
Nice to see my dear Rued getting some GMG love. As for the Fifteenth, the first movement is terrific, one of Langgaard's most dramatic. The second one, setting a poem for chorus, isn't one of his most successful, in my opinion. Re the Järvi 4-6, I recommend it also. Great performances.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 26, 2016, 01:21:47 AMOT
Very funny:
'They're all called Johan' 8)
Even more OT, please don't be so
Rued; what he actually says is: "they're all named Johann", with double n. We're
very different of course. :)
Quote from: Christo on August 26, 2016, 01:45:09 AM
Even more OT, please don't be so Rued; what he actually says is: "they're all named Johann", with double n. We're very different of course. :)
Yep.
Yes,there was a broad hint,there! Well,in terms of the amount of words used,anyway! ::) ;D
I'm trying to sell one of Langgaard's less 'popular' symphonies here.Johann!! ;D Actually,I do agree that the work is uneven,but there's allot of terrific music there that does stay in the mind. To my ,mind,despite the longeurs,there's still more good than bad. And the root of the inspiration really appeals to me. I used to love going out walking in the countryside at 3.30 am. There's just something about it! Apart from the fact that it's dark,ofcourse! I was interested in filming wild animals at the time. The problem was,they only seemed to appear whenever I put the camcorder back in the bag! Also,the police stopped me one morning. They were very interested in the equipment I was carrying in my rucksack. Particularly the bat detector! For some reason they seemed to think I was a burglar!! ("And no,officer,I DON'T have a bat phone. Everyone a comedian,eh?!!)
I wonder if Rued ever got stopped during one of his nightly walks?!!
Of course,Symphonies 4-6 are Langgaard are another matter. They are quite simply the composer at his very best! I think most people are in agreement about that! The aforementioned Chandos cd is the one I usually put on first.
I will be putting up a very long winded post in praise of his third symphony next (another favourite).......so look out!!
Incidentally,I think I'm more Ruth than Rued! Particularly when it comes to arguments! (Where's my rolling pin?!!)
I love the Third Symphony (a piano concerto in all but name). The Stupel cannot be bettered here, btw. I admire Dausgaard, but Stupel has more of that enthusiasm and fire I associate with Langgaard.
I thought you were an admirer. You're lucky of course. I was looking at the prices of the Stupel recordings. They haved rocketed! I can't help but ask,now! ;D How does the baritone compare in the Stupel recording? And does Stupel make the work sound more cohesive?
The artwork on those cds is more interesting too. Suitably strange. Who did the paintings,by the way?
Well, vocally the Dausgaard recordings are almost always superior. Stupel uses Polish soloists and a Polish choir, and they don't do Danish very well. In the Second Symphony there is a text setting in German, and there things are okay in every way. As for the striking artwork, it's by one Ramón de Lecea.
Rued de la Paix!
;D
Thank you for your reply. Sometimes a bit of commitment is what's really important. You have a now rare luxury. Two complete cycles of this fascinating cycle to compare and enjoy! Hopefully,at some point the Stupel recordings will be reissued.
I'll look up that painter later,when I have more time. Not that I actually like them,as such. But they certainly are eye catching and seem appropriate to the music on the cds.
Wish I'd bought them now!! :( :( ;D
Quote from: Cato on August 25, 2016, 06:53:02 AMQuoteAnd did I hear an echo of the Pachelbel Canon in the last minute of the Second Movement? ;)
Quote from: Christo on August 26, 2016, 12:21:26 AM
Oh no, not again ....
https://www.youtube.com/v/JdxkVQy7QLM
Great stuff! ;)
"The canon is everywhere, doctor! It won't go away!!!"
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 25, 2016, 11:55:05 PM
Can't see allot of enthusiasm for Langgaard's Fifteenth here. A favourite of mine. Surely one of his most original creations. It's jam packed with great ideas,and so d*** wierd! The story behind it is similarly great. Thought up by Langgaard's on one of his nocturnal walks;he began sketching it out at four in the morning,when it was nice and quiet (lsensible chap) and finished the sketch at Seven the same morning! (Wonder what time he got up in the morning? IF he got up?!!) "In a preface to the symphony" he compares Ribe to Bruges". Bruges is the city described by George Rodenbach in his novel 'Bruges-la-morte' (which I've read,of course! ;D ) which was a source of inspiration for Langgaard,and also for Korngold's 'Die Tote Stadt'. Rued Langgaard compares the experience of Ribe's mean,downtown,nocturnal streets to the legend of 'Orpheus and Euydice'. Feeling like Orpheus " rushing into the stormy night to visit the vanished Eurydice,but finding only "dead Ribe" The street lamps of Ribe signifying the "shades of the underworld","flickering strettlights and the sound of the cathedral......". In fact,just like where I live at four in the morning! But with loads of empty pint glasses,WKD bottles,pools of vomit and half empty fast food cartons,and no cathedral. Even the lightings the same! In fact,any more cuts and it could have the same low ambient lighting as Hades. The punch ups on the way home certainly belong there!! Nothing like a friendly,"Wot are you looking at mate?' when you're on the way home from your nightly tipple!!
As requested (in a sense), I have revisited the
Fifteenth this morning.
Chalk it up to my background, but I don't find much that is at all
weird in it. It is certainly satisfactory.
(Are you sure you have got the story, and the symphony, matched up aright? Just checking.)
Yes,wrong word! I think I meant wacky! It's so difficult posting while doing dozens of other things (see below!)! It's just the way Langgaard seems to throw these things together. (Not that he did literally throw them....the manuscripts,I mean) I never know what to expect. I remember the first time I heard the symphony thinking,wow? This virile sounding baritone suddenly bellowing out. And with gusto! The music itself isn't particularly wierd,or wierd at all,on the scale of things. It's more the eccentricity of Langgaard's constructions,the juxtapositions......which I think works against wider acceptance of his music in the concert halls;but is one of the reasons allot of people are actually attracted to his music.
Come to think of it,the Fifteenth works better with cordless headphones on. There you are immersed in some task and something catches the ear unexpectedly. (Another reason not to listen to Jon Leifs at the top of a ladder!) If I actually sat next to the cd player concentrating solely on the music itself I'd probably not be so stirred;and more possibly worrying about the longeurs.
So there you are,Karl. Try it again with cordless headphones. But make sure you're doing some menial task (and preferably more than one) while listening!
As to the story behind the symphony (which has probably coloured my judgement! ;D). You got me panicking then.....but yes;it's there on pages Seven and eight of the Dacapo booklet. I've got it in front of me,now! Must watch that step!!! ???
What about the Eleventh? Now,how would you describe that one?!!!! You're the composer!
Just speaking as a humble writer and listener - 'Ixion', aka Symphony No. 11, is madness.
Not of the Ixion! ::)
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 04:49:04 AM
[...] So there you are, Karl. Try it again with cordless headphones. But make sure you're doing some menial task (and preferably more than one) while listening!
But — that
is how I listened! (Well, headphones, doing menial tasks . . . I do not have cordless headphones.)
8)
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 04:49:04 AM
What about the Eleventh? Now,how would you describe that one?!!!! You're the composer!
Okay, a little later I shall revisit
Ixion, I promise!
I'm going to listen to the Fifteenth again.later on. This time sitting near the cd player,so I can actually SEE the tracking on the display,as I listen!!!
The Eleventh? I seem to recall this symphony sparked off an evenings debate here,once? What I would call it? Manic,perhaps?
Quote from: karlhenning on August 26, 2016, 05:04:42 AM
Okay, a little later I shall revisit Ixion, I promise!
Ixion strikes me as wholesome, good-natured, energetic. Am I missing something? 8)
Only manic! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 05:14:24 AM
I'm going to listen to the Fifteenth again.later on. This time sitting near the cd player,so I can actually SEE the tracking on the display,as I listen!!!
The Eleventh? I seem to recall this symphony sparked off an evenings debate here,once? What I would call it? Manic,perhaps?
Must listen to No.15
I've just listened to No 15,again. This time I kept near the machine so I could keep an eye on which track was which. I also used the program button on the remote. The bad news is I still love it. In fact,I'm listening to it for the third time in succession,now. Although,to be honest,I'm upstairs so I can't get to the off button! ;D (The cd player is downstairs). I like all of it and I still think the chorus and singing is absolutely terrific. I only wish I could afford to pay them to come and sing it here!! Definitely a favourite.....which is not the same as saying it's one of his best! And eccentric as opposed to wierd! (Did I say wacky?! :-\)
I'm listening to it for the Fourth time. I'm like Vandermolen. "I can't stop listening!" and currently finding this symphony seriously addictive. I'm also wondering why that angry theme on the brass reminds me of the music in some of those old Westerns,representing Native Americans. You know the sort of music?!! Coincidental,of course.
I don't think I will play it a fifth time,though. It isn't helping my migraine symptoms!! Love it or not!
Ixion next!!
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 08:18:46 AM
I'm listening to it for the Fourth time. I'm like Vandermolen. "I can't stop listening!" and currently finding this symphony seriously addictive. I'm also wondering why that angry theme on the brass reminds me of the music in some of those old Westerns,representing Native Americans. You know the sort of music?!! Coincidental,of course.
I don't think I will play it a fifth time,though. It isn't helping my migraine symptoms!! Love it or not!
Ixion next!!
Your doing this deliberately to make me buy Symphony 15 aren't you?
"Seriously addictive" I think is simply truth in reporting, Jeffrey 0:)
Quote from: karlhenning on August 26, 2016, 08:41:49 AM
"Seriously addictive" I think is simply truth in reporting, Jeffrey 0:)
:)
You haven't got it?! :o
And there I was,with this picture in my head,of you're shelves groaning with the weight of Langgaard cds;or maybe that nice,shiny Dacapo box set?
As regards No 15. Well there's Johan and Karl......and I'm the only one who is raving about it's merits? A simple choice! Although,erm.....Karl is a composer,of course! I have to say at this point.......and this might help? Symphony No 16 is my least favourite Langgaard symphony;and the only one that really does truly stretch my patience. Of course,Langgaard was in very poor health,so I don't blame him,of course. The fill-up items are very interesting though.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to pressurise you,but I expect I'd probably be pacing up and down all night if I didn't have it!. A bit like Langgaard did,I suppose?!! ;D
Seriously,of the two cds,I would go for the Sinfonia Interna At least to start off with anyway. I think you will really enjoy that!
Talking about manic, how are things, cilgwyn? ;D
Not sure how to take that ;D.....but up and down. The forum,I mean!
I just listened to the Sinfonia Interna. A lovely work. Maybe,the inspiration is a little uneven in places;but,imho,there's definitely more wheat than chaff;and some truly ravishingly beautiful muusic there. The performances are superb,too. I thinks it's allot more than just a curiosity.
What do you think,Johan? (There,I got you're name right....like I used to!!!) A thumbs up,or a thumbs down for the Sinfonia Interna?
cilgwyn, that's twice now you've hinted at insufficiencies in the Sinfonia interna, but if they exist, they've eluded me. Draw me a diagram?
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I love the Sinfonia interna.
What amazes me about Langgaard, what even moves me is that this man who had something of the fanatic about him, both artistically and religiously, could write such sensuous and radiant music. For sheer beauty he often can compete with Delius (and I know some won't regard this as a compliment. For me it is.).
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on August 26, 2016, 01:41:55 PM
I love the Sinfonia interna.
What amazes me about Langgaard, what even moves me is that this man who had something of the fanatic about him, both artistically and religiously, could write such sensuous and radiant music. For sheer beauty he often can compete with Delius (and I know some won't regard this as a compliment. For me it is.).
... and sounds absolutely sincere about it as well!
My good Johan, I accept your word in good faith, and I contentedly remain a Delius agnostic 8)
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Quote from: karlhenning on August 26, 2016, 03:08:04 PM
My good Johan, I accept your word in good faith, and I contentedly remain a Delius agnostic 8)
Agnosticism is less absolute than atheism, so I guess there is still hope for old Frederick yet...
Although I'm a self-proclaimed Langgaard nut, I've hesitated for years to delve into Rued's symphonies (with the exception of
Ixion which I honestly
dig). Weird, eh? But the discussion here finally tipped me over! Listening to
Sinfonia Interna as a warmup and then buckle up, Dorothy!
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on August 26, 2016, 01:41:55 PMWhat amazes me about Langgaard, what even moves me is that this man who had something of the fanatic about him, both artistically and religiously, could write such sensuous and radiant music.
Speaking of radiant, when this gorgeous theme from
Music of the Spheres kicks in after all the previous proto-ligetian brooding..
XII. Bells pealing: Look ! He comes (from
Sfærernes musik) (https://youtu.be/REqFSOu0Frg?t=24m54s)
..my heart can barely contain itself.
I'm here!
Love the Sinfonia Internaand Spheres. But where's the love for Rued's 14th, Morgenen? Besides having some of the most awkward movement titles (Dad Rushes to the Office) I think it contains some of the composers most Romantic music.
Also I'm a big admirer of his chamber works, check out Lenaustemninger for mezzo and St. Quartet, fantastic work..
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 27, 2016, 12:46:21 PM
I'm here!
Love the Sinfonia Internaand Spheres. But where's the love for Rued's 14th, Morgenen? Besides having some of the most awkward movement titles (Dad Rushes to the Office) I think it contains some of the composers most Romantic music.
Also I'm a big admirer of his chamber works, check out Lenaustemninger for mezzo and St. Quartet, fantastic work..
Don't worry - I love No. 14. I have it in three performances. One historic, Stupel, Dausgaard. The movement for string orchestra, Upaaagtede Stjerne, is absolutely gorgeous. The choral movements are best in Dausgaard.
Did I not already know our Greg for a Langgaard enthusiast? What a grand discovery!
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Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 27, 2016, 12:46:21 PM
I'm here!
Love the Sinfonia Internaand Spheres. But where's the love for Rued's 14th, Morgenen? Besides having some of the most awkward movement titles (Dad Rushes to the Office) I think it contains some of the composers most Romantic music.
Thanks, mate: that
Introductory Fanfare was exactly what the corporeal Henning needed this humid Monday morning!
Quote from: karlhenning on August 29, 2016, 05:33:27 AM
Thanks, mate: that Introductory Fanfare was exactly what the corporeal Henning needed this humid Monday morning!
Great,
Karl! Perhaps it would make for a perfect morning alarm clock? ;D
Oh, it may, at that!
I haven't jumped on the Langgaard train just yet myself. But for those who have, DaCapo has just announced 33% off all their recordings if you buy from them directly.
http://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/news-langgaard-campaign-33-percent-off.aspx
The opening of Sinfonia Interna is wonderful - very atmospheric and moving.
Have now listened to the complete work which held my attention throughout - another great discovery thanks to this forum.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 26, 2016, 08:28:33 AM
Your doing this deliberately to make me buy Symphony 15 aren't you?
Guess what? I find that I do have a CD featuring Symphony 15 after all ::). I'm only glad that I didn't rush out and buy it (again). However, I haven't got on to Symphony 15 as there is another work on the CD 'Sphinx' (1913) which I keep playing over and over again. It is apparently Langgaard's most performed (or least un-performed) work. It is a haunting short work (under seven minutes) which reminds me of Rachmaninov's 'Isle of the Dead' and Balakirev's 'Tamara'.
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on September 08, 2016, 12:24:01 AM
I've been coincidentally listening to Music Of The Spheres A LOT lately!
Great lyrics there. 0:)
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on September 08, 2016, 12:36:32 AM
The score is beautiful, I also found out (because of Music of the spheres) of Ligeti's admiration, I can see a connection.
It's remarkable that it was composed in 1916!! But then, so was Ive's 4th...
Oh yes, the score is indeed beautiful. Regarding
Ligeti, have you seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/v/0OX_4cJyhgI
Langgaard LOVE:
There's Something Wonderful In The State Of Denmark
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/11/Wonderful-Denmark_Music_Forbes_Sound-Advice_Jens-F-Laurson_1600__Langgaard_Symphonies_Dausgaard-1200x446.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/#7a50e5cc5a73 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/#7a50e5cc5a73)
Tuesday I'm in love:
Rosengaardsspil / Rose Garden Play (1918)
https://www.youtube.com/v/RShME_NaotE
Sounds ravishing. He remains an astonishing composer.
Quote from: Rinaldo on March 07, 2017, 01:53:34 AM
Tuesday I'm in love:
Rosengaardsspil / Rose Garden Play (1918)
https://www.youtube.com/v/RShME_NaotE
;D That is bloody lovely music, innit?!
His Antikrist opera is quite amazing! I could almost go s far as to class it as an eccentric masterpiece,along with Havergal Brian's The tigers;but I'm just a humble listener....what do I know?!! ::) :( ;D
Sorry,The tigers,with a large T!! :-[ ;D
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on March 07, 2017, 02:01:08 AM
Sounds ravishing. He remains an astonishing composer.
Ahoy,
Johan!
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 07, 2017, 02:42:01 AM
His Antikrist opera is quite amazing! I could almost go as far as to class it as an eccentric masterpiece
You may just be right.
Langgaard is a new discovery for me. I've been streaming his works tonight and am really impressed with the Sinfonia Internal. On one hand he is an inventive and unorthodox composer, on the other his symphonies are harmonically similar to Strauss--rooted in late 1800s tonality (excluding his Music of the Spheres and a few others) His late symphonies sound far less modern than his early works. I love his String Quartet #6. Is there a specific symphonic work that combines sounds like Sinfonia Internal?
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 07, 2017, 02:24:51 AM
;D That is bloody lovely music, innit?!
It is that; and I've really enjoyed the Violin Sonatas vol. 2 CD you brought to our attention 8)
Ahoy,Johan!
Ahoy Karl!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 26, 2016, 01:31:48 PM
cilgwyn, that's twice now you've hinted at insufficiencies in the Sinfonia interna, but if they exist, they've eluded me. Draw me a diagram?
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If Karl's ever wondered why I didn't reply to his post,it's because I'm still trying to draw a diagram! :( :( :(
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 07, 2017, 04:27:14 AM
Ahoy,Johan!
Ahoy Karl!
Ahoy, cilgwyn!
(Still alive, but very busy. I hope to be here a bit more often again...)
Good. I was wondering where you were. It's a bit like a pub without the Landlord at the moment. If you'll excuse the comparison. Actually,I thought you might be working on your novel?!
I'm referring to the HB thread,of course. Ahoy,there Rued!! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 07, 2017, 04:30:43 AM
If Karl's ever wondered why I didn't reply to his post,it's because I'm still trying to draw a diagram! :( :( :(
Hah!
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 07, 2017, 05:21:55 AM
I'm referring to the HB thread,of course. Ahoy,there Rued!! ;D
(The Landlord of the HB thread finished Part 1 of his ambitious novel on 9 June 2016, but is now a columnist for an engineering weekly and doing a lot of other things, too.)
Hej, Rued!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 07, 2017, 03:30:29 AM
It is that; and I've really enjoyed the Violin Sonatas vol. 2 CD (http://a-fwd.to/22i2CnK) you brought to our attention 8)
Glad to hear that. It's what turned me on to Langgaard in the first place, actually!
Très cool!
Quote from: Rons_talking on March 07, 2017, 03:30:03 AM
Langgaard is a new discovery for me. I've been streaming his works tonight and am really impressed with the Sinfonia Internal. On one hand he is an inventive and unorthodox composer, on the other his symphonies are harmonically similar to Strauss--rooted in late 1800s tonality (excluding his Music of the Spheres and a few others) His late symphonies sound far less modern than his early works. I love his String Quartet #6. Is there a specific symphonic work that combines sounds like Sinfonia Internal?
Symphonies 4,6 and 10 are all excellent in my view.
I'm also very fond of symphonies 2 & 3 in the Stupel recording, very fiery and colourful pieces.
Just listened to Ixion for the first time on Dacapo. Wow - that was different! We need a new recording with better sound though.
Surprised no one has mentioned The Time of the End, BVN 243. That's my favorite work of his at the moment. But then again I have yet to try the Sinfonia Interna.
Funny enough, here's what Danacord says about Langgaard on their website:
Rued Langgaard was described as "a white duckling who became an ugly swan". His first symphony (composed when he was only 14 years old) caused a sensation when it was performed by Max Fiedler in Berlin and the next three symphonies quickly established Langgaard as one of the most brilliant composers in Denmark. Strongly influenced by his anachronistic parents and a strong believer in the musical tradition of the past, Langgaard lost the connection to the musical life before he was even 30. The symphonies following number four became rhapsodic and romantic in a way where they found little less than laughter among the audience. Forgotten and without any influence in Danish music, he died in 1952 shortly after finishing his 16th symphony.
Kinda sad. Here's the link:
http://www.danacord.dk/collections/langgaard.html (http://www.danacord.dk/collections/langgaard.html)
Quote from: Judge Fish on March 07, 2017, 07:34:52 PMSurprised no one has mentioned The Time of the End, BVN 243. That's my favorite work at the moment.
One of his masterpieces.
QuoteLanggaard lost the connection to the musical life before he was even 30.
From what I'd gathered, he was not an easy person and his strong-mindedness gradually led to him being ostracized from the mainstream.
Aide from Music of the Spheres, what other remarkable scores did Langgaard compose?
Quote from: Webernian on April 26, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Aide from Music of the Spheres, what other remarkable scores did Langgaard compose?
That's the one :P ;)
I do think his first symphony is quite good but I found many of the later ones underwhelming.
Quote from: jessop on April 26, 2017, 04:06:28 PM
That's the one :P ;)
I do think his first symphony is quite good but I found many of the later ones underwhelming.
Gosh.
We can still be mates 8)
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Quote from: Webernian on April 26, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Aide from Music of the Spheres, what other remarkable scores did Langgaard compose?
Check out
Antikrist, the SQs,
Sinfonia Interna,
Fra dybet (From the Abyss) and, of his numbered symphonies,
Symphony No. 6.
Quote from: Webernian on April 26, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Aide from Music of the Spheres, what other remarkable scores did Langgaard compose?
For innovative instrumental writing, for example the piano works "
Insektarium" (playing on the strings and the wooden lid) & "
Le Beguinage Sonata" (telling the pianist to attack the piano destructively with his playing);
for some captivating orchestral works, symphonies 4, 6, 10, 11.
For some traditional, Romantic works -
Drapa IM Edvard Grieg, Symphonies 1, 2 (with soprano), 3 (with piano), 5.
The late-Lisztian "
The Fire Chambers" and many other piano works, some of them very lyrical, such as the more Schumannesque
Flower Vignettes, and the
Gijantali Hymns.
Latest on Forbes about one of my favorite composers:
Classical CD Of The Week: Rued Langgaard, A Danish Lark
(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/05/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_DACAPO_Langgaard_String-Quartets_vol1_Laurson_1200-banner-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/05/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-rued-langgaard-a-danish-lark/#5d447da5addf (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/05/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-rued-langgaard-a-danish-lark/#5d447da5addf)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 12, 2017, 04:41:13 AM
Latest on Forbes about one of my favorite composers:
Classical CD Of The Week: Rued Langgaard, A Danish Lark
(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/05/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_DACAPO_Langgaard_String-Quartets_vol1_Laurson_1200-banner-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/05/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-rued-langgaard-a-danish-lark/#5d447da5addf (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/05/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-rued-langgaard-a-danish-lark/#5d447da5addf)
All of those Langgaard SQ recordings on Dacapo are exquisite.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 04:50:13 AM
All of those Langgaard SQ recordings on Dacapo are exquisite.
Indeed they are, the Kontra Quartet's included... except they are only available digitally now.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 12, 2017, 05:28:44 AM
Indeed they are, the Kontra Quartet's included... except they are only available digitally now.
I haven't heard the Kontra's Langgaard, but, after hearing the Nightingale Quartet's performances, I'm afraid I don't really have any desire to. They're that good.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 05:30:10 AM
I haven't heard the Kontra's Langgaard, but, after hearing the Nightingale Quartet's performances, I'm afraid I don't really have any desire to. They're that good.
I thought you really meant
all the Dacapo recordings. And yes, there's not a great need to have those, too... because the Nightingales are every bit as good and better as far as a qualitative standard is concerned. More a question whether one likes these works so much that one wants to have more than one interpretation. This tends to be the GMG habit. :-) Few are content with just the Takacs set of the Beethoven Quartets, although it is so excellent.
There is a lesson in there 8)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 12, 2017, 05:34:39 AM
I thought you really meant all the Dacapo recordings. And yes, there's not great need to have those, too... because the Nightingales are every bit as good and better as far as a qualitative standard is concerned. More a question whether one likes these works so much that one wants to have more than one interpretations. This tends to be the GMG habit. :-) Few are content with just the Takacs set of the Beethoven Quartets, although it is so excellent.
No argument here. I agree.
"Such attitudes brought Langgard into conflict with the European mainstream after World War I ...."(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170602/ef104da654344a3a8edfc6b6de5a5549.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 05, 2017, 06:01:05 AM
Okay, kids, gather around:
. . . Langgaard’s very first string quartet, which the composer began at the age of 21 in 1914. Like the subsequent quartets it is shot through with moving musical references to the fateful summer the year before, when the composer met the (hopeless) love of his life.
Now, I come away from that sentence asking, What – all of his string quartets are shot through with musical references to the summer of 1913?
That’s how the sentence is cast, right?
Edit :: minor typo
Quoth the liner notes:
Quote from: Bendt Viinholt Nielsen, from Nightingale Quartet's Langgaard String Quartets vol. 3 liner notes pp 10-11In 1913 the 20-year-old Langgaard spent the summer in the small spa town of Kyrkhult in Blekinge, Sweden, where he lodged in a house called 'Rosengården' (The Rose Garden). The two-month stay there was to have lifelong significance for the composer - first and foremost, we must believe, because he met and fell in love with a girl, a certain Dora, whose identity is unknown today. The young Langgaard was immediately emotionally awakened, and over the next 5-6 years he created a wealth of songs, piano and chamber music works whose texts, titles and musical substance refer to the memorable days at Rosengården. This is true not least of the four string quartets which were all called Rosengaardsspil (Rose Garden Play). Later, though, three of them were given other titles. The first of these four 'Rose Garden Quartets' is String Quartet no. 1 (1914-15); then come Rosengaardsspil (1918), String Quartet (A major) (1918); and finally Quartet no. 6 (1918-19).
Thanks! And, you know, I might have set down to read the notes, myself . . . .
Hello all - just a question I had posed in the WAYLTN thread but perhaps might be more appropriate here - what sort of relationship did Langgaard have with Nielsen and was there any evidence of a flow of ideas between the 2?.
Listening to both Composers at the moment and it seems to me like there may have been a bit of appropriation of Nielsen's work by Langgaard but perhaps I'm mistaken and it was the other way round?.
I read here (posted by Vandermolen) that Langgaard was a bit resentful towards Nielsen - any truth in that?. :)
Quote from: Undersea on January 27, 2018, 12:37:52 AM
Hello all - just a question I had posed in the WAYLTN thread but perhaps might be more appropriate here - what sort of relationship did Langgaard have with Nielsen and was there any evidence of a flow of ideas between the 2?.
Listening to both Composers at the moment and it seems to me like there may have been a bit of appropriation of Nielsen's work by Langgaard but perhaps I'm mistaken and it was the other way round?.
I read here (posted by Vandermolen) that Langgaard was a bit resentful towards Nielsen - any truth in that?. :)
There was very little flow from Nielsen to Langgaard and zero the other way; Nielsen was THE dominant figure of Danish Music and Langgaard was actively ignored after his early success in Berlin. Langgaard eventually came to resent Nielsen's ubiquity in Danish musical life -- even and especially after Nielsen was already dead -- and penned a devastating little ditty for organ and chorus: "Carl Nielsen, Our Great Composer" -- a facetious hymn to those, and only those, words... to be repeated "ad infinitum". (Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OXGkzUmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OXGkzUmo))
(it's been called "catchy doggerel", which is probably plenty praise for something intended as pure throw-away sarcasm.)
That said, Langgaard could not have NOT been influenced to SOME degree by Nielsen, since the latter was everywhere a Danish person looked, at the time. But perhaps not on purpose. And certainly, Langgaard was plenty original (some might say: too original -- I don't agree; I love his outlandishness) that the occasional rhyming bit in his work isn't per se indicative of leaning on Nielsen.
Quote from: Undersea on January 27, 2018, 12:37:52 AM
Hello all - just a question I had posed in the WAYLTN thread but perhaps might be more appropriate here - what sort of relationship did Langgaard have with Nielsen and was there any evidence of a flow of ideas between the 2?.
Listening to both Composers at the moment and it seems to me like there may have been a bit of appropriation of Nielsen's work by Langgaard but perhaps I'm mistaken and it was the other way round?.
I read here (posted by Vandermolen) that Langgaard was a bit resentful towards Nielsen - any truth in that?. :)
Langgaard wrote a work sarcastically titled 'Carl Nielsen, Our Great Composer' designed to be 'repeated throughout eternity'. At one level he seems to have resented Nielsen's status as the Great Danish Composer but, paradoxically, his work clearly shows the influence of Nielsen, especially, in the works I know, Symphony 4, 5 and 6. So,maybe his relationship to Nielsen was a bit 'love/hate' but others may disagree.
PS my post crossed with the one by 'SuprisedByBeauty'.
apropos:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUft3y7W0AEny4H.jpg)
#morninglistening to #Langgaard et al. w/#DanishPianoTrio on @DacapoRecords
http://a-fwd.to/2KbZcp3
#PianoTrios, continuing my enduring love for #RuedLanggaard but also #NielsGade & P.E. #LangeMüller
@SurprisedBeauty Music! ♡☆♡ (http://a-fwd.to/2KbZcp3)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 27, 2018, 01:57:01 AM
There was very little flow from Nielsen to Langgaard and zero the other way; Nielsen was THE dominant figure of Danish Music and Langgaard was actively ignored after his early success in Berlin. Langgaard eventually came to resent Nielsen's ubiquity in Danish musical life -- even and especially after Nielsen was already dead -- and penned a devastating little ditty for organ and chorus: "Carl Nielsen, Our Great Composer" -- a facetious hymn to those, and only those, words... to be repeated "ad infinitum". (Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OXGkzUmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OXGkzUmo))
(it's been called "catchy doggerel", which is probably plenty praise for something intended as pure throw-away sarcasm.)
That said, Langgaard could not have NOT been influenced to SOME degree by Nielsen, since he was everywhere a Danish person looked, at the time. But perhaps not on purpose. And certainly, Langgaard was plenty original (some might say: too original -- I don't agree; I love his outlandishness) that the occasional rhyming bit in his work isn't per se indicative of leaning on Nielsen.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 27, 2018, 01:58:16 AM
Langgaard wrote a work sarcastically titled 'Carl Nielsen, Our Great Composer' designed to be 'repeated throughout eternity'. At one level he seems to have resented Nielsen's status as the Great Danish Composer but, paradoxically, his work clearly shows the influence of Nielsen, especially, in the works I know, Symphony 4, 5 and 6. So,maybe his relationship to Nielsen was a bit 'love/hate' but others may disagree.
PS my post crossed with the one by 'SuprisedByBeauty'.
Thanks for your replies - I can see how
Langgaard could have unwittingly been influenced by
Nielsen and it makes sense that he may have had a love/hate thing going on with his work. :)
I can only nod my head along with Jens' and Jeffrey's posts. I will add that sometimes when one composer is trying to distance themselves from another composer, this is, basically, a form of influence since the composer that's doing the distancing is well-aware of the sound-world that the other composer's music inhabits.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2018, 05:57:35 AM
I can only nod my head along with Jens' and Jeffrey's posts. I will add that sometimes when one composer is trying to distance themselves from another composer, this is, basically, a form of influence since the composer that's doing the distancing is well-aware of the sound-world that the other composer's music inhabits.
For sure
MI. :)
My copy of Symphony No. 1 (DNRSO/Segerstam) arrived today, and I'm listening to it now. I can kind of see how some people might find it too much, but for me there's no such thing as "too much". I absolutely love this work! A great addition to my collection of epic B minor symphonies, along with the likes of Gliere 3 and Paderewski.
Wonderful symphony!
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 12, 2018, 06:13:35 AM
My copy of Symphony No. 1 (DNRSO/Segerstam) arrived today, and I'm listening to it now. I can kind of see how some people might find it too much, but for me there's no such thing as "too much". I absolutely love this work! A great addition to my collection of epic B minor symphonies, along with the likes of Gliere 3 and Paderewski.
Powerful purchase. It's not less than gorgeously epic! I can't get enough of that symphony either. That is the best recording of that work IMHO.
Yes, Segerstam has the measure of this very long symphony. Love it.
I tend to like Langgaard's more condensed works like his Symphony No. 6, "Det Himmelrivende", which gets my vote as one of his best symphonies. I also like that screwy, little hairball Symphony No. 11, "Ixion", but also Symphony No. 4, "Løvfald". Outside of the symphonies, I absolutely adore his string quartets and that kaleidoscopic whirlwind of 'future music', Sfærernes Musik. I've been meaning to check out his piano music and more of his chamber music like the violin sonatas for example.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 12, 2018, 05:22:26 PM
I tend to like Langgaard's more condensed works like his Symphony No. 6, "Det Himmelrivende", which gets my vote as one of his best symphonies. I also like that screwy, little hairball Symphony No. 11, "Ixion", but also Symphony No. 4, "Løvfald". Outside of the symphonies, I absolutely adore his string quartets and that kaleidoscopic whirlwind of 'future music', Sfærernes Musik. I've been meaning to check out his piano music and more of his chamber music like the violin sonatas for example.
Nos. 4,5, 6 and 10 are my favourites plus Music of the Spheres. I must listen to No.1 again.
On,now! After twiddling my finger's through Flotow's Martha :-\ and quite enjoying Rimsky Korsakov's Sadko (magnificent,old school Russian singing under Golovanov;albeit rough sound!) this is just full of imaginative ideas. Allot of it is very beautiful,exciting,and a bit mind (and ear) boggling to listen to. You don't need a libretto to enjoy it. Langgaard always seems to come second to Nielsen,when comparisons are made;but isn't there a case for this being,some kind of,eccentric masterpiece?!! Whether it is,or not;I find it an astonishing work. I can't think of anything quite like it. Yet,it seems to "work"!
(https://i.imgur.com/Dm5yFqg.jpg)
I hate to say this;knowing the possible impact on bank balances ;D......but it strikes me that this wild,wacky and thoroughly extraordinary work (I've never heard anything else,quite like it!) is another opera that vandermolen might possibly enjoy?!! I wouldn't even compare it what anyone would normally regard as a opera. It's more like some kind of huge tone poem,with bit's of operatic singing,in some ways. The sound world is very reminiscent,to my ears,of some of the more "visionary" symphonies;particularly No's 4-6 (and maybe,No 10,as well). And a bit of his Music of the Spheres,maybe,thrown in?!! Some of the sounds (including shouting,pounding percussion,organ on full throttle,bells!!) really are,sonically,thrilling! Absolutely,Wow!! ??? ??? ???
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 31, 2018, 03:33:24 AM
On,now! After twiddling my finger's through Flotow's Martha :-\ and quite enjoying Rimsky Korsakov's Sadko (magnificent,old school Russian singing under Golovanov;albeit rough sound!) this is just full of imaginative ideas. Allot of it is very beautiful,exciting,and a bit mind (and ear) boggling to listen to. You don't need a libretto to enjoy it. Langgaard always seems to come second to Nielsen,when comparisons are made;but isn't there a case for this being,some kind of,eccentric masterpiece?!! Whether it is,or not;I find it an astonishing work. I can't think of anything quite like it. Yet,it seems to "work"!
(https://i.imgur.com/Dm5yFqg.jpg)
I hate to say this;knowing the possible impact on bank balances ;D......but it strikes me that this wild,wacky and thoroughly extraordinary work (I've never heard anything else,quite like it!) is another opera that vandermolen might possibly enjoy?!! I wouldn't even compare it what anyone would normally regard as a opera. It's more like some kind of huge tone poem,with bit's of operatic singing,in some ways. The sound world is very reminiscent,to my ears,of some of the more "visionary" symphonies;particularly No's 4-6 (and maybe,No 10,as well). And a bit of his Music of the Spheres,maybe,thrown in?!! Some of the sounds (including shouting,pounding percussion,organ on full throttle,bells!!) really are,sonically,thrilling! Absolutely,Wow!! ??? ??? ???
You are wicked cilgwyn to keep throwing these temptations my way. ;D
It does look of interest and I am an admirer of Langgaard's music. However I think I must get my head round Martinu's 'Greek Passion' first.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 31, 2018, 03:47:30 AM
You are wicked cilgwyn to keep throwing these temptations my way. ;D
It does look of interest and I am an admirer of Langgaard's music. However I think I must get my head round Martinu's 'Greek Passion' first.
It
is a wicked composition; an anti-Parsifal of sorts. Wonderful. I prefer the danacord recording, though it has more objective faults, by a small margin, because it makes up with immediacy and atmosphere what it lacks in polish.
(see also: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/2/#577bf27b6c38 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/2/#577bf27b6c38))
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 31, 2018, 03:58:44 AM
(see also: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/2/#577bf27b6c38 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/2/#577bf27b6c38))
Nice, again 0:)
I was going to say,there is another recording;and I have heard that some prefer it,and it is,indeed,now,for many,the preferred recording! I haven't heard it I'm afraid,and I will concede that it may be,and probably is, the recording to hear. vandermolen may be amused to find that,thanks to your post,now I'm facing more temptation,myself!! The dacapo recording is,to my mind and ears,superb;yet I am aware that Johan,prefers some of the earlier recordings of Langgaard symphonies,on the danacord label,to the dacapo recordings. If I recall his observations correctly,it is precisely the fact that they are a little less "polished" in execution,that gives them the "edge"! Unfortunately,sellers usually ask high prices for them;which seems to suggest that they are worth acquiring?!! Anyway,I'm going to have to hear that now,aren't I?!! ::) ;D
Here it is! And who wouldn't want this?!! I'm not usually keen on 'live' recordings,with some exceptions,I might add;but a live recording of this work does seem to make sense,to me! I envy you,SuprisedByBeauty! I note that the performance is in German,though. Never mind. Buy both!! I'll put this on my list,forthwith! See vandermolen.....more expense!! :( ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/0GkuXuq.jpg)
Well, I can't afford £120 or whatever for it but I really liked the Prelude to 'Antikrist' which I just heard on You Tube. So, I have order end a Danacord CD with the Prelude alongside symphonies 13 and 16 which I don't know at all.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 31, 2018, 05:03:10 AM
Well, I can't afford £120 or whatever for it but I really liked the Prelude to 'Antikrist' which I just heard on You Tube. So, I have order end a Danacord CD with the Prelude alongside symphonies 13 and 16 which I don't know at all.
You certainly need a non-dear option on
Antikrist. You will dig it.
Has it been deleted?! I'm often,almost,relieved at times;because it means I'm not going to spend more money!!! ::) ;D As you know,I've put software on my pc,to stop me from making too many,impulse,purchases of cd's (dvd's and books,too!). The password is in the attic!! ::) :( It makes me feel like Timothy Lumsden (Remember Ronnie Corbett,In Sorry!). It will also,cut me off at 3pm,so I will,hopefully,do do some work on my painting,artwork and novel writing (ongoing! :( ;D).
Karl's right! You will "dig it",vandermolen! What not to dig?!! (The garden?!!) This is pretty mind bending stuff,imho! Particularly,after Flotow's Martha!! ;D It's like someone composed an opera,while consuming a plateful of magic mushrooms! I'd go for the dacapo,first,if I were you,;for a first listen......then get the danacord. Or sell your house,and buy both!! ;D Okay......maybe,not?!! ::)
Worry not! Antikrist is here!
I think you may have found a listing of the release that is no longer being serviced, as it were. The thing is still in print and can be found following this link (Amazon global):
http://a-fwd.to/4Co42rF (http://a-fwd.to/4Co42rF)
Used to have a lunch or two with the conductor of that recording (which I didn't realize he was, when I got to know him; and my attitude about the recording had already been fixed), who is one of the most knowledgable and fiery Langgaard-protagonists. (Though didn't make friends at home when he told the publishers that most of their material was lazy rubbish and pointed out hundreds if not thousands of mistakes. :-)
Much,colossal pounding and the organ,again,on full throttle. A purely orchestral section,now. Very thrilling,with martial percussion,here. An unaccompanied female soloist. Is that low brass,or an organ? Spooky! A bit hammer horror! Another massive burst from the orchestra. It sounds huge. Then more organ. Another purely orchestral bit here, very beautiful and romantic orchestration ,followed by tolling bells. A lovely chorus,now. Almost like church music. This is glorious. Earlier on there was some music that sounded like,some of the "visionary" moments,in symphonies 4 & 6.
I must admit,I've half a mind to defy this software and pop up to the attic and buy the danacord,as well! If I had last week again,much as I love The Greek Passion,I might actually be recommending you this opera,instead!! (I must.........resist!!!! ::) ;D) That said,The Greek Passion is a very different opera. You just can't compare. They're both great,imho! (As they say!).
From a Gramophone review (which you read online,without that "pop-up" thing,appearing,to stop you! (Do they know about,"Printscreen"?!!).
"there are extraordinary excursions along the way, into Korngoldian opulence, Janaeek, late Nielsen, 1950s expressionism as in Bernd Alois Zimmermann, and a clumsy Ravelian waltz in scene 4 that dissolves into the kind of heart-stopping violin solo one finds in Havergal Brian's later symphonies".
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Apr01/antichrist.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Apr01/antichrist.htm)
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/langgaard-antichrist (https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/langgaard-antichrist)
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mpl10402dvda.php (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mpl10402dvda.php)
Thank you Karl, cilgwyn and SurprisedByBeauty - I guess that you have talked me into it, especially as I can now obtain a copy for about £10 which is much better than £120 and saves me having to sell my wife and daughter to obtain the necessary funding (the cat is quite safe however). Also, the reviews that cilgwyn kindly posted mentioned some of my other favourite works including John Foulds's 'World Requiem' (I was lucky enough to attend the first live performance of it in over 80 years at the Albert Hall in London - a CD of the performance was released by Chandos). Also 'Morning Heroes' by Bliss and I was interested to hear that the eponymous 'Antikrist' is the same figure as Apollyon (not to be confused with Apollo 8) in Vaughan Williams's 'Pilgrim's Progress' - one of the few operas I love (although VW said it was not an opera). Some of the reviews of Antikrist make it sound like Gerry Goldsmith's 'Black Mass' from 'Damien Omen II' - itself a terrific score, especially in the opening section's use of the Jew's Harp. Still, I must take the plunge with 'Antikrist' - I have a lot of time for old Rued and the opening of 'Sinfonia Interna' is one of the most beautiful openings of any work I know.
By the way, cilgwyn, I'm very interested and impressed by your 'painting, art-work and novel writing' reference.
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 31, 2018, 03:33:24 AM
On,now! After twiddling my finger's through Flotow's Martha :-\ and quite enjoying Rimsky Korsakov's Sadko (magnificent,old school Russian singing under Golovanov;albeit rough sound!) this is just full of imaginative ideas. Allot of it is very beautiful,exciting,and a bit mind (and ear) boggling to listen to. You don't need a libretto to enjoy it. Langgaard always seems to come second to Nielsen,when comparisons are made;but isn't there a case for this being,some kind of,eccentric masterpiece?!! Whether it is,or not;I find it an astonishing work. I can't think of anything quite like it. Yet,it seems to "work"!
(https://i.imgur.com/Dm5yFqg.jpg)
I hate to say this;knowing the possible impact on bank balances ;D......but it strikes me that this wild,wacky and thoroughly extraordinary work (I've never heard anything else,quite like it!) is another opera that vandermolen might possibly enjoy?!! I wouldn't even compare it what anyone would normally regard as a opera. It's more like some kind of huge tone poem,with bit's of operatic singing,in some ways. The sound world is very reminiscent,to my ears,of some of the more "visionary" symphonies;particularly No's 4-6 (and maybe,No 10,as well). And a bit of his Music of the Spheres,maybe,thrown in?!! Some of the sounds (including shouting,pounding percussion,organ on full throttle,bells!!) really are,sonically,thrilling! Absolutely,Wow!! ??? ??? ???
What I can say is I've been very encouraged by your great description of
Antikrist and I definitely have to hear it. Count me as another big fan of Langgaard.
I've ordered Antikrist now. ::)
Antikrist is a great opera. It's ridiculous plot aside, the music within is awesome. The Dausgaard recording is self-recommending, especially if you already own Dausgaard's other Langgaard recordings.
My first impressions about Antikrist are very favorable! An exceptional work it is without any doubt. The scoring is so rich as Langgaard knows to do. The music is magical, mystical, stormy, dramatic, with some Straussian touches... in short: quite convincing. I can hear reminiscences from the Symphony No. 6 (another work that involves superhuman forces). Also, there is a prelude for every scene, which shows a strong orchestral part in the work. It's not a heavy opera since its duration is circa 92 min., very approachable.
The phylosophical background is possibly the main reason that attracted my attention to this fascinating piece. This text is taken from the Langgaard's webpage:
"Antichrist is a philosophical-religious opera about the decline and (spiritual) fall of western civilization. It is an "atmospheric fantasia over our time", pillorying the modern lifestyle and mentality and warning against all-pervasive egoism and materialism at the expense of the spiritual values of existence. The message of the opera is that society and culture are digging their own grave but that the individual human being can find hope by becoming aware of the state of the world and opening up towards the divine."
I couldn't agree more. These words are even more accurate in this epoch, where there is much indifference to some problems that burden us.
Antikrist is clearly one of his best works, an automatic favorite of mine.
Thank you Caesar and John. I look forward to receiving the work. I ordered the live performance on Danacord for reasons of price. I'm really looking forward to hearing it.
Yes,I think I will raid the attic,a bit later (for that password) and buy a copy,myself. It strikes me that,like Brian's Gothic (and probably,more so) Langgaards opera is a work which benefits from being heard in a live performance! You won't get such lush strings or fine tuned sonic perfection,but you'll get that raw experience of something actually happening on a stage. Anyway,I can't stand the thought of you sitting there enjoying a more viscerally,raw,edge of the seat,exciting performance than the one I've got!! ::) :( ;D Normally,I would,definitely,stick to a studio recording of an opera. But,this is the kind of opera,that really almost redefines what opera is all about,anyway!
It also,does help,that it's cheaper!! ;D Incidentally,I listened to the Prelude yesterday. It's very beautiful;but I was thinking,you won't get any idea of what the opera is like,from listening to that! In fact,if you only knew it from the Prelude,you'd be in for a bit of a surprise!!
I noticed that a performance by Ole Schmidt was recorded,and,subsequently,released,on Lp. I saw the cover artwork of the emi release,while I was looking for photos of the cd's for the "What are you listening to now?" thread. Has anyone heard this recording? I never came across it! :( Langgaard and Brian? Schmidt was adventurous. His performance of the Gothic is my all time favourite!
(https://i.imgur.com/9J7bA4t.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/63QZdSI.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/L0DMtCD.jpg)
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on March 31, 2018, 10:05:05 PM
My first impressions about Antikrist are very favorable! An exceptional work it is without any doubt. The scoring is so rich as Langgaard knows to do. The music is magical, mystical, stormy, dramatic, with some Straussian touches... in short: quite convincing. I can hear reminiscences from the Symphony No. 6 (another work that involves superhuman forces). Also, there is a prelude for every scene, which shows a strong orchestral part in the work. It's not a heavy opera since its duration is circa 92 min., very approachable.
The phylosophical background is possibly the main reason that attracted my attention to this fascinating piece. This text is taken from the Langgaard's webpage:
"Antichrist is a philosophical-religious opera about the decline and (spiritual) fall of western civilization. It is an "atmospheric fantasia over our time", pillorying the modern lifestyle and mentality and warning against all-pervasive egoism and materialism at the expense of the spiritual values of existence. The message of the opera is that society and culture are digging their own grave but that the individual human being can find hope by becoming aware of the state of the world and opening up towards the divine."
I couldn't agree more. These words are even more accurate in this epoch, where there is much indifference to some problems that burden us.
Antikrist is clearly one of his best works, an automatic favorite of mine.
I suppose,some might say,that,in that respect,Langgaard's message is even more pertinent than ever?!! Someone suggested ,in the "What are you listening to now?"thread,that Karl's choice of listening (and mine,I suppose?) was an odd choice for the Easter weekend. On the basis of the title of the opera,alone,I can understand that observation (Shades of,The Omen,Damian! :o ;D) but,if you actually know anything about the work,it is actually very appropriate to the occasion! I don't want to get into religion here. But,if you are a Christian,of a religious persuasion,or merely in despair of a perceived drift towards materialism,in our society,at the expense of spiritual values;this could,actually,be just the
right music to put on!!
I'm listening to Ambroise Thomas' opera,Mignon,now. This is the sort of opera you definitely,
don't like,vandermolen!! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 31, 2018, 04:44:35 AM
Here it is! And who wouldn't want this?!! I'm not usually keen on 'live' recordings,with some exceptions,I might add;but a live recording of this work does seem to make sense,to me! I envy you,SuprisedByBeauty! I note that the performance is in German,though. Never mind. Buy both!! I'll put this on my list,forthwith! See vandermolen.....more expense!! :( ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/0GkuXuq.jpg)
Bought my copy,online,yesterday! Thanks,for the post,
SurprisedByBeauty. I think I (we'll?) enjoy this!! :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 02, 2018, 05:38:05 AM
Bought my copy,online,yesterday! Thanks,for the post,SurprisedByBeauty. I think I (we'll?) enjoy this!! :)
Yay! Do enjoy! I hope I didn't lead you astray. (Fairly confident that I didn't.)
Just discovered Symphony 13 which I like very much - on the same CD as the Prelude to Antikrist which seems to include music from one of his symphonies (no.6 possibly) - he tends to recycle themes. Great to discover a new Langgaard symphony. The very opening of the Prelude to Antikrist reminded me of the opening of Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony.
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 02, 2018, 05:38:05 AM
Bought my copy,online,yesterday! Thanks,for the post,SurprisedByBeauty. I think I (we'll?) enjoy this!! :)
About what size is the
Danacord set of Antichrist;if you're there,
SuprisedByBeauty? I'm just wondering if it will fit through a standard letterbox? I may have to go away for a few days;and post has gone AWOL around here!! :(
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 07, 2018, 01:07:07 AM
About what size is the Danacord set of Antichrist;if you're there,SuprisedByBeauty? I'm just wondering if it will fit through a standard letterbox? I may have to go away for a few days;and post has gone AWOL around here!! :(
Regular small jewel case! Should slip right in. :D
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on April 07, 2018, 01:09:06 AM
Regular small jewel case! Should slip right in. :D
Our postman uses the cat-flap in those circumstances. 8)
Quote from: vandermolen on April 07, 2018, 01:19:25 AM
Our postman uses the cat-flap in those circumstances. 8)
When I was a kid, our postman would do the same thing... until our cat caught wind of it and then proceeded to lie in waiting for the postman to do just that. And if the poor fellow exposed as much as glint of flesh, he was dinged by a stealthy paw with claws playfully out-all-the-way. He was subsequently re-trained -- the postman, not the cat -- to stick packages in only half-way, rain or shine.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on April 07, 2018, 01:23:34 AM
When I was a kid, our postman would do the same thing... until our cat caught wind of it and then proceeded to lie in waiting for the postman to do just that. And if the poor fellow exposed as much as glint of flesh poking his hand through the cat-flap, he was dinged by a stealthy paw with claws playfully out-all-the-way. He was subsequently re-trained -- the postman, not the cat -- to stick packages in only half-way, rain or shine.
What's this -- the
EDIT function has gone?
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on April 07, 2018, 01:24:56 AM
What's this -- the EDIT function has gone?
I was able to edit a message earlier. The modify button is still there as far as I can see.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on April 07, 2018, 01:23:34 AM
When I was a kid, our postman would do the same thing... until our cat caught wind of it and then proceeded to lie in waiting for the postman to do just that. And if the poor fellow exposed as much as glint of flesh, he was dinged by a stealthy paw with claws playfully out-all-the-way. He was subsequently re-trained -- the postman, not the cat -- to stick packages in only half-way, rain or shine.
;D
You need a postman flap,really. But then the burglar would use it,too!! ::) :( I like the way the postman had to be re-trained not the cat!! ;D But then how do you train a cat?!! ::) It reminds me of when I was living in lodgings,when I was a youngster. The cat suddenly ran in chasing a mouse. I managed to save the mouse and threw the cat out of the back door. I proudly told the Landlord. He looked at me in a mixture of horror and disbelief! "You threw the cat out and saved the mouse? You threw the cat out and saved the mouse?!!" he spluttered. I could hear him muttering away to himself all day,"He threw the cat out and saved the mouse?!!"
Oh,good. It's not one of those fat boxes! It was embarassing enough this morning. After I late night I woke up,a bit late. I thought,I must get up,in case the postman knocks? As soon as the thought entered my head he started knocking. I can't stand getting that card through the door,when I'm there. At any event,the postman handed the packages over with a big grin on his face (discreetly turned away) as I struggled to hold up my trousers behind the frosted glass door!!! ??? :o ::) ;D I hate glass doors!! >:( ;D
The Danacord recording of Antichrist arrived today! Hm! :-\ Having been used to the ,and having raved to the splendours,and wild magnificence,of the Dacapo recording this is going to get some getting used to!! As I've said before. I'm not a fan of live recordings,generally. This may be a slow burn?!! Very interesting to listen,though. I will listen to some other music for a while,then come back to it again! Food for though,eh?!! ;D
Which of the symphonies would you recommend I explore next, after No. 1? I know there is nothing of that sort of scale, at least length-wise, in the remaining symphonies.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 15, 2018, 10:11:49 AM
Which of the symphonies would you recommend I explore next, after No. 1? I know there is nothing of that sort of scale, at least length-wise, in the remaining symphonies.
Check out the 6th. A personal favorite. 8)
Nos. 4, 6 and 10 :)
What are your favorite Langgard symphonies? I mean, lets say a classical fan has never heard of him, what would you say "oh you must hear xyz" to get them interested in the rest of his unique output?
Quote from: relm1 on April 15, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
What are your favorite Langgard symphonies? I mean, lets say a classical fan has never heard of him, what would you say "oh you must hear xyz" to get them interested in the rest of his unique output?
Personally I find the symphonies 1, 4, 6, 10, 11 (a bit fun) and 16 more invigorating, so I would recommend those, although all 16 are worth it.
In addition to those already mentioned I have enjoyed Symphony 13.
I´m pretty sure that there are quite big differences between recordings of the symphonies & the atmosphere they provide in each work.
I only have Stupel´s complete cycle + some supplementary recordings, not Dausgaard´s cycle.
Generally, I' m satisfied with Stupel´s, though he´s in trouble with the non-Danish vocal soloists. His 10th and 5th great, for example, his Antichrist Prelude very impressive.
The Danacord 2CD release of the symphonies 4,6,10 etc. conducted by Frandsen, Schmidt etc. is really superb, some of the best Langgaard recordings in existence, including Music of the Spheres.
Eventually, I´ll probably buy Dausgaard´s set too & might revise my appreciation of some of the lesser known symphonies.
I have the Stupel and the Dausgaard sets and a CD that includes the symphonies 4-6 performed by Järvi and the Danish National S.O. I don't own the 2 CD of Danacord with the symphonies 4, 6, 10, 14 and Music of Spheres.
According to my favorite symphonies, I can say:
Symphony 1 - Segerstam makes an extraordinary job here. I feel the work sounds more epic and relentless.
Symphony 4 - I like the performances of Stupel and Järvi. Dausgaard is good but rushes a bit at the beginning and at the end. I think part of the excitement is missing.
Symphony 6 - Järvi's performance is the benchmark to me, mainly because he allows the work breathe at the coda, therefore it sounds much more majestic and expansive. Stupel and Dausgaard wreck that part by rushing. A big fail in my view.
Symphony 10 - Dausgaard and Stupel are rather appropriate in this work, despite there is a difference of around 3 minutes in the performances (Stupel - 29 min., Dausgaard - almost 26 min.)
The ... Vienna ... Philharmonic ... is releasing ... a whole CD ... of Langgaard.
This is not a drill.
Details + cover next week :)
Pounds the table!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v3loEr2g6c
The things that can happen, when they are playing at the Konzerthaus' "Wien Modern"... amazing!
Oramo again; 2nd & 6th Symphony + "Morning Stars Unheeded" (essentially the 14th Symphony's second movement) plus another contemporary Danish work.
Hopefully it will give Langgaard a bit of new curiosity from listeners on and near the fence.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on July 20, 2018, 07:51:45 AM
The things that can happen, when they are playing at the Konzerthaus' "Wien Modern"... amazing!
Oramo again; 2nd & 6th Symphony + "Morning Stars Unheeded" (essentially the 14th Symphony's second movement) plus another contemporary Danish work.
Hopefully it will give Langgaard a bit of new curiosity from listeners on and near the fence.
+1
This is great! It was time for an orchestra like the Vienna Philharmonic to leave their comfort zone with the same composers as always.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 20, 2018, 10:45:40 AM
This is great! It was time for an orchestra like the Vienna Philharmonic to leave their comfort zone with the same composers as always.
They did record some Norgard including Symphony 1 which is my favourite of the few I have heard.
I was revisiting a CD of organ works, beautiful music!
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on July 20, 2018, 07:51:45 AM
The things that can happen, when they are playing at the Konzerthaus' "Wien Modern"... amazing!
Oramo again; 2nd & 6th Symphony + "Morning Stars Unheeded" (essentially the 14th Symphony's second movement) plus another contemporary Danish work.
Hopefully it will give Langgaard a bit of new curiosity from listeners on and near the fence.
YES!
That slow movement from Symphony #14 is totally ravishing and for strings only. Cannot wait to hear this with the Vienna Phil. And Nos 2 and 6. Terrific news!
Johan, your table-pounding was just the motivation I required, to revisit this piece. Hearty thanks!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 21, 2018, 09:25:58 AM
Johan, your table-pounding was just the motivation I required, to revisit this piece. Hearty thanks!
You're very welcome, Karl!
(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/747313165360.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/747313165360.pt01.jpg)
The 'ecstatic outsider' in Vienna.
Terrific!
Great cover design.
On one hand, it is great to see the Vienna Philharmonic branching out. But on the other hand, does Dacapo really need to duplicate repertoire?
I hope Oramo doesn't rush the Coda on the 6th because I'll be somewhat disappointed. So far, Järvi has the best ending. That fragment is vital to me.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 23, 2018, 06:02:30 PM
I hope Oramo doesn't rush the Coda on the 6th because I'll be somewhat disappointed. So far, Järvi has the best ending. That fragment is vital to me.
That Jarvi CD is my favourite Langgaard CD and I invariably play it right through listening to symphonies 4,5 and 6 in sequence.
Quote from: CRCulver on July 23, 2018, 04:17:47 PM
On one hand, it is great to see the Vienna Philharmonic branching out. But on the other hand, does Dacapo really need to duplicate repertoire?
It's a label dedicated to Danish music. Which now has some of the best sound around, and didn't when it was doing its first pass on this music.
In other words: yes.
Also yes because having Vienna record Norgard and Langgaard - and having New York record the Nielsen symphonies - suits not just their goal of making some money, but also their more cultural goal of making Danish music central to the world repertoire. I imagine that entering Langgaard into the Vienna Philharmonic repertoire would be a far greater goal for them than adding to the CD catalog.
It is not as if recordings of any of the Langgaard symphonies are saturating the market 8)
Quote from: Brian on July 24, 2018, 05:02:46 AM
Also yes because having Vienna record Norgard and Langgaard - and having New York record the Nielsen symphonies - suits not just their goal of making some money, but also their more cultural goal of making Danish music central to the world repertoire. I imagine that entering Langgaard into the Vienna Philharmonic repertoire would be a far greater goal for them than adding to the CD catalog.
This is very true. It's the Danish national label and its cultural goals are central to that.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 24, 2018, 05:22:36 AM
It is not as if recordings of any of the Langgaard symphonies are saturating the market 8)
Yeah, this isn't like DG doing another Bruckner cycle... *cough*
Thank goodness you didn't say Shostakovich! 0:)
Just I've listened to the new release of the 6th Symphony under Oramo conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. Once more this work blows me away. I think the performance is terrific, clear, powerful. I've also noticed certain sonorities I didn't perceive in other performances (especially in that one by Järvi). The sonics are vibrant, great sound engineering in here. In terms of tempo, it's kind of similar to the Dausgaard recording. Despite the Coda was somewhat rushed as usual, I enjoyed this magnificent symphony very much. I can't get enough of that ending: one of my favorites ever, sheer thrill!!!
Tomorrow I'll listen to the other works on the CD.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/710hUqeNOQL._SX355_.jpg)
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 02, 2018, 04:04:31 PM
Just I've listened to the new release of the 6th Symphony under Oramo conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. Once more this work blows me away. I think the performance is terrific, clear, powerful. I've also noticed certain sonorities I didn't perceive in other performances (especially in that one by Järvi). The sonics are vibrant, great sound engineering in here. In terms of tempo, it's kind of similar to the Dausgaard recording. Despite the Coda was somewhat rushed as usual, I enjoyed this magnificent symphony very much. I can't get enough of that ending: one of my favorites ever, sheer thrill!!!
Tomorrow I'll listen to the other works on the CD.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/710hUqeNOQL._SX355_.jpg)
Great to hear Cesar! I've ordered this CD and can't wait to hear it.
Release date Sept. 14th over here according to Amazon.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 02, 2018, 11:06:15 PM
Great to hear Cesar! I've ordered this CD and can't wait to hear it.
Release date Sept. 14th over here according to Amazon.
There is a high probability that you'll enjoy this stunning recording, Jeffrey! Hopefully the VPO will record the rest of the symphonies.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 02, 2018, 04:04:31 PM
Just I've listened to the new release of the 6th Symphony under Oramo conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. Once more this work blows me away. I think the performance is terrific, clear, powerful. I've also noticed certain sonorities I didn't perceive in other performances (especially in that one by Järvi). The sonics are vibrant, great sound engineering in here. In terms of tempo, it's kind of similar to the Dausgaard recording. Despite the Coda was somewhat rushed as usual, I enjoyed this magnificent symphony very much. I can't get enough of that ending: one of my favorites ever, sheer thrill!!!
Tomorrow I'll listen to the other works on the CD.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/710hUqeNOQL._SX355_.jpg)
Received this CD today - that ending of Symphony 6 and the performance as a whole is terrific. 'Unnoticed Morning Stars', for string orchestra, makes an eloquent postscript but it is the 6th Symphony that I shall return to. Totally agree with the comments above. I hope that they go on to record Symphony 4 and 10.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 14, 2018, 12:10:00 PM
Received this CD today - that ending of Symphony 6 and the performance as a whole is terrific. 'Unnoticed Morning Stars', for string orchestra, makes an eloquent postscript but it is the 6th Symphony that I shall return to. Totally agree with the comments above. I hope that they go on to record Symphony 4 and 10.
I've listened yo the 6th many times since its new release. It's really an exciting score. I like the tempo Oramo gets, it allows to go under the work's skin. All is very good detailed. However, Järvi's rendition on Chandos remains my absolute predilect. This Vienna performance goes 2nd.
A new complete cycle wouldn't go wrong. These performances are promising.
I'm sure Langaard would not be pleased to hear that the Symphony No. 6 sounds very much like Nielsen to me.
From the 4th symphony on, I perceive a unique voice of his own. Personally I don't hear many Nielsen influences on the 6th Symphony. Langgaard took his path, a more esoteric one but conservative at the same time, and I like it. Besides, his originality in structures, the irreverence that he printed along with an imposing strength/power in works and eventually the titles of many his works, are some of the features why I find Langgaard's music so stimulating and unique. Possibly not a composer at the height of Nielsen or other major composers, but he's one that has given me so many terrific impressions.
Although Langgaard had a real grudge about Nielsen ('Karl Nielsen; Our Great Composer') there are traces of influence at times. I agree that the Chandos CD featuring symphonies 4,5 and 6 is my favourite Langgaard CD but I've enjoyed this new performance of Symphony 6 as well as the earlier one on Da Capo.
Almost the right time of year for Lovfald, but with Hurricane Florence coming through here I guess I need to listen to Yon Hall of Thunder before we lose power...
Quote from: motoboy on September 15, 2018, 06:32:51 PM
Almost the right time of year for Lovfald, but with Hurricane Florence coming through here I guess I need to listen to Yon Hall of Thunder before we lose power...
Either is good to hear! I hope there will not be important destructions.
Latest on ClassicsToday about one of my secret favorites:
Loving Langgaard: Chamber Music Edition
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dn2VWI9XcAAxfG4.jpg) (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/loving-langgaard-chamber-music-edition/)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on September 24, 2018, 02:11:04 AM
Latest on ClassicsToday about one of my secret favorites:
Loving Langgaard: Chamber Music Edition
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dn2VWI9XcAAxfG4.jpg) (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/loving-langgaard-chamber-music-edition/)
Sweet!
Ribe, eh?
Oldest town in Denmark. Pretty. I visited the cathedral.
Come to think of it, I might have seen Langgaard's name there...
There is a live broadcast of Langgaard's Music of the Spheres on Radio 3,this Thursday evening,from Glasgow Cathedral. Thomas Dausgard,the BBC Scottish SO,Rowan Pierce (soprano) and the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland Voices,are the performers. There will also be a talk,by the conductor,about Langgaard's music,
Great to see Langgaard loved and discussed. I'll have to buy that new CD then... I, too, hope that the VPO has been bitten by the Langgaard bug and will do a whole cycle.
Well, that would be one helluva bug! 0:) ;)
I didn't know Langgaard had founded a Boring Music Society?!! :o ;D
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/)
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 25, 2018, 04:26:59 AM
I didn't know Langgaard had founded a Boring Music Society?!! :o ;D
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/)
An interesting, if somewhat arrogant and I'll-informed, article. I certainly don't agree that it was 'all downhill' from the First Symphony (which is not the greatest in my view). Nielsen may have been the greater composer but there are aspects of Langgaards' output, which I find more appealing, especially Symphony 4 and 6, Sinfonia Interna and 'The Music of the Spheres'.
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 25, 2018, 04:26:59 AM
I didn't know Langgaard had founded a Boring Music Society?!! :o ;D
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/was-the-founder-of-the-boring-music-society-a-neglected-genius/)
I have to say that I found the article more than a bit patronising. I recently worked my way through the symphonies and found them uneven but No 6 is excellent and if any of them are going to enter the repertoire it stands the best chance (possibly along with No 15). I found more of Strauss than Nielsen in many of the symphonies but also plenty of individuality.
Woe, woe to the reviewer who dares to have an opinion that the fans do not like.
Quote from: Madiel on September 25, 2018, 04:53:57 AM
Woe, woe to the reviewer who dares to have an opinion that the fans do not like.
Well, if
Jeffrey is right, arrogance and poor information are greater vices than entertaining a variant opinion.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 25, 2018, 04:57:29 AM
Well, if Jeffrey is right, arrogance and poor information are greater vices than entertaining a variant opinion.
If.
For one thing it's perfectly obvious to me the downhill reference was to the state of Langgaard's career after the 1st Symphony, not to whether his 1st Symphony was best.
Quote from: Madiel on September 25, 2018, 05:06:35 AM
For one thing it's perfectly obvious to me the downhill reference was to the state of Langgaard's career after the 1st Symphony, not to whether his 1st Symphony was best.
I don't know enough about Langgaard's public reputation at the time of his First Symphony. Maybe it's a bit like suggesting that Glazunov's reputation was 'all downhill' after his First Symphony success when he was about 16. Was Langgaard ever popular? I'm glad that it's 'perfectly obvious' to you because it certainly wasn't to me.
Quote from: Madiel on September 25, 2018, 04:53:57 AM
Woe, woe to the reviewer who dares to have an opinion that the fans do not like.
Surely the reviewer and the fans are entitled to an opinion. It's known here as democracy.
Quote from: Madiel on September 25, 2018, 05:06:35 AM
For one thing it's perfectly obvious to me the downhill reference was to the state of Langgaard's career after the 1st Symphony, not to whether his 1st Symphony was best.
I thought the young Langgard was very highly regarded and his bitterness took hold at his subsequent neglect since he held on to more traditional direction when the trends were for nationalism and Nielsen basically was the national voice. So in some of Langgaard's works, you have a feeling of "but I can do that too".
Quote from: Biffo on September 25, 2018, 04:51:34 AM
I have to say that I found the article more than a bit patronising. I recently worked my way through the symphonies and found them uneven but No 6 is excellent and if any of them are going to enter the repertoire it stands the best chance (possibly along with No 15). I found more of Strauss than Nielsen in many of the symphonies but also plenty of individuality.
Bolded text: I agree with those statements.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 25, 2018, 10:48:01 AM
Bolded text: I agree with those statements.
+1 in addition to symphony 4 (my favourite), 10 and The Music of the Spheres.
Quote from: Madiel on September 25, 2018, 05:06:35 AM
For one thing it's perfectly obvious to me the downhill reference was to the state of Langgaard's career after the 1st Symphony, not to whether his 1st Symphony was best.
That's how I would be reading it... and that would certainly be a succinct but accurate description of his career.
Interesting and very positive comparative review of the new CD on Musicweb today:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Sep/Langgaard_symphonies_6220653.htm
At his best,Langgaard's symphonies have what I might describe as a wild,wide eyed,"visionary" quality which elevates them above some more mundane late romantic symphonies I have encountered. I don't think it's too silly to place his Sixth symphony,for example,amongst those of Nielsen,as one of the most striking and compelling scandinavian symphonies. There is an intensity to his imagination there,which really is quite extraordinary. I can fully understand why Chandos chose a Van Goch painting for the front of the Jarvi cd. Also,parts of the Fourth symphony have a similar visionary quality and intensity. The "nature painting" isn't just pretty,post card scenery. There is an ecstatic, pantheistic quality which lifts it above mundane pictorialism (at least for me!). Rob Barnett,in his Musicweb review,thinks that "It is staggering to think that this piece was written during the Great War by a composer still only 23".
Read more: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Sept02/Langgaard455.htm#ixzz5SIANUKLK
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 27, 2018, 01:20:02 AM
At his best,Langgaard's symphonies have what I might describe as a wild,wide eyed,"visionary" quality which elevates them above some more mundane late romantic symphonies I have encountered. I don't think it's too silly to place his Sixth symphony,for example,amongst those of Nielsen,as one of the most striking and compelling scandinavian symphonies. There is an intensity to his imagination there,which really is quite extraordinary. I can fully understand why Chandos chose a Van Goch painting for the front of the Jarvi cd. Also,parts of the Fourth symphony have a similar visionary quality and intensity. The "nature painting" isn't just pretty,post card scenery. There is an ecstatic, pantheistic quality which lifts it above mundane pictorialism (at least for me!). Rob Barnett,in his Musicweb review,thinks that "It is staggering to think that this piece was written during the Great War by a composer still only 23".
Read more: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Sept02/Langgaard455.htm#ixzz5SIANUKLK
I very much agree with you cilgwyn. Also the particular VG painting chosen for the cover of that fine Chandos disc was the quite extraordinary 'Cornfield with Crows' which links VG directly with 20th Century Expressionism. I just bought/smuggled in that animated film about Van Gogh.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2018, 03:45:09 AM
I very much agree with you cilgwyn. Also the particular VG painting chosen for the cover of that fine Chandos disc was the quite extraordinary 'Cornfield with Crows' which links VG directly with 20th Century Expressionism. I just bought/smuggled in that animated film about Van Gogh.
+1
There is a sort of transcendent quality on those specific works (4 & 6), above all the 4th, which is arguably his best symphony overall. From the very beginning I find it thought-provoking, almost esoteric, that strong horn call with the timpani is gorgeous, and the subsequent fragment in the strings, for me, is fascinating. A quite effective beginning for a work. Somehow, I feel identified with the mood of this score, it's something beyond me to be honest.
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 27, 2018, 01:20:02 AM
At his best,Langgaard's symphonies have what I might describe as a wild,wide eyed,"visionary" quality which elevates them above some more mundane late romantic symphonies I have encountered. I don't think it's too silly to place his Sixth symphony,for example,amongst those of Nielsen,as one of the most striking and compelling scandinavian symphonies. There is an intensity to his imagination there,which really is quite extraordinary. I can fully understand why Chandos chose a Van Goch painting for the front of the Jarvi cd. Also,parts of the Fourth symphony have a similar visionary quality and intensity. The "nature painting" isn't just pretty,post card scenery. There is an ecstatic, pantheistic quality which lifts it above mundane pictorialism (at least for me!). Rob Barnett,in his Musicweb review,thinks that "It is staggering to think that this piece was written during the Great War by a composer still only 23".
Read more: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Sept02/Langgaard455.htm#ixzz5SIANUKLK
I have a somewhat contrarian view of Langgaard. He is a good composer. NOT a great composer. That means I enjoy a lot of his music and much of it is frustrating to me. Some I find amazing, deep, and complex, and some I find deeply bland. He is inconsistent in a way the great composers aren't. The style isn't a problem at all, it is the inconsistency of quality. I thought this new recording by the Vienna Philharmonic was excellent but the work isn't exceptional, it is just good with exciting moments. I love Antichrist opera and many of Langgaard's works but he is a pretty good composer. For example Bruckner is an average composer with some great works and some inferior ones. Langgaard falls in that category. Still worth hearing, recording, and exposing people to.
I did say,"at his best"! :) I would reply in more depth,but I've got things to do!! Hopefully,later!
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 27, 2018, 11:26:33 AM
+1
There is a sort of transcendent quality on those specific works (4 & 6), above all the 4th, which is arguably his best symphony overall. From the very beginning I find it thought-provoking, almost esoteric, that strong horn call with the timpani is gorgeous, and the subsequent fragment in the strings, for me, is fascinating. A quite effective beginning for a work. Somehow, I feel identified with the mood of this score, it's something beyond me to be honest.
Very much my view of Symphony 4 as well.
Quote from: relm1 on September 25, 2018, 06:34:32 AMSo in some of Langgaard's works, you have a feeling of "but I can do that too".
This. I wonder where his musical mind would've taken him if he wasn't handicapped by jealousness.
Quote from: Rinaldo on October 13, 2018, 05:51:09 AM
Quote from: relm1 on September 25, 2018, 06:34:32 AM
[...] So in some of Langgaard's works, you have a feeling of "but I can do that too".
This. I wonder where his musical mind would've taken him if he wasn't handicapped by jealousness.
This feels like eisogesis rather than exegesis, to this listener/composer.
Is the Dacapo symphony box a space saver box with sleeves or 7 plastic jewel cases in a paper case?
Quote from: Brian on November 13, 2018, 06:59:12 PM
Is the Dacapo symphony box a space saver box with sleeves or 7 plastic jewel cases in a paper case?
Sleeves.
Quote from: Brian on November 13, 2018, 06:59:12 PM
Is the Dacapo symphony box a space saver box with sleeves or 7 plastic jewel cases in a paper case?
Space saving, yes, definitely. Sleeves? No. It's a totally ingenious -- well, very fancy -- little fan-system. Not simply sleeves, though.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 15, 2018, 08:03:23 AM
Space saving, yes, definitely. Sleeves? No. It's a totally ingenious -- well, very fancy -- little fan-system. Not simply sleeves, though.
My Dacapo box of the symphonies has the discs in cardboard sleeves, nothing ingenious.
Quote from: Biffo on November 15, 2018, 08:10:36 AM
My Dacapo box of the symphonies has the discs in cardboard sleeves, nothing ingenious.
What?? You got gypped.
Doesn't look like this?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815TIE%2BDD-L._SL1500_.jpg)
I must admit,I've never seen one like that before! (I must get out more?!! ::) ;D)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on November 15, 2018, 08:03:23 AM
Space saving, yes, definitely. Sleeves? No. It's a totally ingenious -- well, very fancy -- little fan-system. Not simply sleeves, though.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the intricacies of the construction. But the simple answer is: BUY IT!
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Wb2HyyhUL._SS500.jpg)
It's been my first complete listen to the Sinfonia interna, and I have to say that this possesses sublime beauty, the most mystical and mellifluous side of this composer in complete display. The music is thoroughly enchanting, lyrical at its best. Here there is an extract from a review taken from MusicWeb:
"The history of Sinfonia Interna is complicated but can be summarised as follows. Sinfonia Interna was originally to have been Langgaard's Fourth Symphony. It is not to be confused with the Løvfald Symphony - the authorised number 4. It was completed in 1915-16 as a large scale 'stage symphony' in five sections uniting text, music and stage elements. Its grand scheme was Scriabinesque - designed under the influence of Theosophy to produce a transcendental, religious, mystical effect. It was discarded when a performance could not be secured. Its material resurfaced in other free-standing works. In the 1940s the composer considered reconstructing the sinfonia in a shortened form but without stage elements. This disc is an attempt to fulfil that proposal from original material all brought together by the world authority on Langgaard Bendt Viinholt Nielsen with reconstruction work done by Mike Cholewa.
...
The writing is luminous, never congested - a naturally legato, usually slow, following the undulations of some serenely beautiful inner landscape. The music also prompts memories of Delius's Village Romeo and Juliet - Act I. There are some operatic incursions to provide variety although I found that these segments did not fully convince. In the final Epilog you can hear the linkages between Delius (say Summer Night on the River) and the Danish musical heritage.
This is, quite simply, a glorious work, gloriously performed and resplendently recorded. A success on every count. Now how about, for just this once, shelving Elgar's Sea Pictures or Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder or Strauss's Four Last Songs and giving this Langgaard work a chance?"
Once again, I like the connection and/or scope Langgaard tried to give his music, with the transcendental thing being a strong inspiration. It lets to see a spiritual man who wanted to write beautiful music, often inspired by God or religion, far from the extreme modernisms of the age. I wish he had lived longer and with much more recognition.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 05, 2019, 09:28:02 PM
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Wb2HyyhUL._SS500.jpg)
It's been my first complete listen to the Sinfonia interna, and I have to say that this possesses sublime beauty, the most mystical and mellifluous side of this composer in complete display. The music is thoroughly enchanting, lyrical at its best. Here there is an extract from a review taken from MusicWeb:
"The history of Sinfonia Interna is complicated but can be summarised as follows. Sinfonia Interna was originally to have been Langgaard's Fourth Symphony. It is not to be confused with the Løvfald Symphony - the authorised number 4. It was completed in 1915-16 as a large scale 'stage symphony' in five sections uniting text, music and stage elements. Its grand scheme was Scriabinesque - designed under the influence of Theosophy to produce a transcendental, religious, mystical effect. It was discarded when a performance could not be secured. Its material resurfaced in other free-standing works. In the 1940s the composer considered reconstructing the sinfonia in a shortened form but without stage elements. This disc is an attempt to fulfil that proposal from original material all brought together by the world authority on Langgaard Bendt Viinholt Nielsen with reconstruction work done by Mike Cholewa.
...
The writing is luminous, never congested - a naturally legato, usually slow, following the undulations of some serenely beautiful inner landscape. The music also prompts memories of Delius's Village Romeo and Juliet - Act I. There are some operatic incursions to provide variety although I found that these segments did not fully convince. In the final Epilog you can hear the linkages between Delius (say Summer Night on the River) and the Danish musical heritage.
This is, quite simply, a glorious work, gloriously performed and resplendently recorded. A success on every count. Now how about, for just this once, shelving Elgar's Sea Pictures or Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder or Strauss's Four Last Songs and giving this Langgaard work a chance?"
Once again, I like the connection and/or scope Langgaard tried to give his music, with the transcendental thing being a strong inspiration. It lets to see a spiritual man who wanted to write beautiful music, often inspired by God or religion, far from the extreme modernisms of the age. I wish he had lived longer and with much more recognition.
It has possibly the most beautiful opening of any work I know.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2019, 07:05:15 AM
It has possibly the most beautiful opening of any work I know.
I couldn't disagree with it.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 05, 2019, 09:28:02 PM
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Wb2HyyhUL._SS500.jpg)
It's been my first complete listen to the Sinfonia interna, and I have to say that this possesses sublime beauty, the most mystical and mellifluous side of this composer in complete display. The music is thoroughly enchanting, lyrical at its best. Here there is an extract from a review taken from MusicWeb:
"The history of Sinfonia Interna is complicated but can be summarised as follows. Sinfonia Interna was originally to have been Langgaard's Fourth Symphony. It is not to be confused with the Løvfald Symphony - the authorised number 4. It was completed in 1915-16 as a large scale 'stage symphony' in five sections uniting text, music and stage elements. Its grand scheme was Scriabinesque - designed under the influence of Theosophy to produce a transcendental, religious, mystical effect. It was discarded when a performance could not be secured. Its material resurfaced in other free-standing works. In the 1940s the composer considered reconstructing the sinfonia in a shortened form but without stage elements. This disc is an attempt to fulfil that proposal from original material all brought together by the world authority on Langgaard Bendt Viinholt Nielsen with reconstruction work done by Mike Cholewa.
...
The writing is luminous, never congested - a naturally legato, usually slow, following the undulations of some serenely beautiful inner landscape. The music also prompts memories of Delius's Village Romeo and Juliet - Act I. There are some operatic incursions to provide variety although I found that these segments did not fully convince. In the final Epilog you can hear the linkages between Delius (say Summer Night on the River) and the Danish musical heritage.
This is, quite simply, a glorious work, gloriously performed and resplendently recorded. A success on every count. Now how about, for just this once, shelving Elgar's Sea Pictures or Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder or Strauss's Four Last Songs and giving this Langgaard work a chance?"
Once again, I like the connection and/or scope Langgaard tried to give his music, with the transcendental thing being a strong inspiration. It lets to see a spiritual man who wanted to write beautiful music, often inspired by God or religion, far from the extreme modernisms of the age. I wish he had lived longer and with much more recognition.
One of my favorites
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 07, 2019, 05:23:46 PM
One of my favorites
Mine too! I listened to it again, and my sentiments were reaffirmed.
Happy birthday, Rued!
Among the miniatures of this composer, Insektarium (9 puzzle pictures) is one of his most bizarre and original creations, portraying nine different insects. The pianist's gestures are just funny, fitted the quirky and irreverent music:
http://www.youtube.com/v/0Agbj1W_90s
http://www.youtube.com/v/DUr6dI33F1U
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 28, 2019, 03:00:30 PM
Happy birthday, Rued!
Among the miniatures of this composer, Insektarium (9 puzzle pictures) is one of his most bizarre and original creations, portraying nine different insects. The pianist's gestures are just funny, fitted the quirky and irreverent music:
http://www.youtube.com/v/0Agbj1W_90s
http://www.youtube.com/v/DUr6dI33F1U
Hilarious and rather enjoyable music. Thanks for posting this Cesar.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2019, 07:05:15 AM
It has possibly the most beautiful opening of any work I know.
Have had this CD for perhaps 2 decades and don't believe I ever listened (which happens). Around somewhere, but can I find it?
Quote from: vandermolen on July 29, 2019, 12:46:29 AM
Hilarious and rather enjoyable music. Thanks for posting this Cesar.
My pleasure! Glad you liked it!
Quote from: J on July 30, 2019, 08:28:06 AM
Have had this CD for perhaps 2 decades and don't believe I ever listened (which happens). Around somewhere, but can I find it?
You should! It's poetic and mellifluous in a good way.
Quote from: J on July 30, 2019, 08:28:06 AM
Have had this CD for perhaps 2 decades and don't believe I ever listened (which happens). Around somewhere, but can I find it?
I have that problem too. Eventually I give up, buy the work again and then almost immediately find the original CD ( ::) >:( >:D). Anyway, you have to find it to hear that beautiful opening!
Nice to find a Korean, broadcasted performance of Langgaard's complete 1st Symphony, with a huge orchestra, passionate playing, an enthusiastic conductor knowing the score by heart, and a raving applause at the end .... :)
Well done, Rued.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MatX5qo9V74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MatX5qo9V74)
Many thanks for the link. Will be listening later today!
Quote from: MusicTurner on October 31, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
Nice to find a Korean, broadcasted performance of Langgaard's complete 1st Symphony, with a huge orchestra, passionate playing, an enthusiastic conductor knowing the score by heart, and a raving applause at the end .... :)
Well done, Rued.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MatX5qo9V74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MatX5qo9V74)
Oh, thank you!!! It will be fascinating to see the huge orchestra playing this epic piece.
Oh, it's back up! That's fantastic! It was on Youtube a while ago, and that performance is what introduced me to said symphony and got me to buy a recording of it.
I wonder if the Vienna Philharmonic will continue the series of symphonies. The next natural step should be the 4th Symphony, which I consider one of his most cohesive creations. To be honest, their recording of the 6th lacks power is a staggering composition and things move with a more moderate pace. We need more symphonies with this combination of forces!!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2021, 04:04:22 PM
I wonder if the Vienna Philharmonic will continue the series of symphonies. The next natural step should be the 4th Symphony, which I consider one of his most cohesive creations. But to be honest, his recording of the 6th lacks power, and things don't move well. Järvi on Chandos understood better the score. He achieved to hold a taut reading with precise playing, whose result is a thrilling symphonic journey.
I hope so. No.4 is my favourite - a great work.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/6.220528-29.jpg)
This work had been intriguing me for quite some time. Today was the day to find out. Eminently meditative, pensive, with an important religious gravitas. The quirky Langgaard is absent here. I can't say I enjoyed it as much as I wanted. I'm not too keen on solemn or quiet organ music, and this work has lots of that. The length also helped against it.
I really love this piece, and if it were an hour longer, I wouldn't say No... I like the quirky Langgaard just as much, by the way. Perhaps being religious myself is a help.
The 6th is simply a thing of a wonder. Man, is there any more exultant, angry and epic piece of music in the history?
I mean, the process from soft stillness to a real like-a-supernova explosion embraces a big musical journey, here Langgaard is more organic that he had thought. It's almost like a concerto for orchestra, you hear each instrument with clarity. It only could compare with greats: Respighi's St Gregory the Great, the Alpine Symphony, or any like you a similar mood and style by other composers of important musical height. An orgasmic and quite cathartic sonic experience!
I can't get enough of the Oramo recording with the Wiener!! I don't know why the heck I was excluding this ravishing performance and recording. It's a beast. This could literally push the roof up to kilometers, even light years.
But my favorite is definitively Järvi with the Danish Radio S.O. (or with Royal, not sure). Järvi and the the great orchestra contribute with a more quirky reading, a littke bit more intense because it also benefits fast tempi. The struggle, the way Langgaard weaves the conflict is nothing short of astonishing. It should be compared or paired with an experience such as, I don't know, the Super Bowl (I would say I don't want to be exaggerating here ;D ). I would pay to see and hear this live!!!
Langgaard is one of those composers in whom I can trust blindly. I can go with safe pace enjoying much of his stuff and even consider him like a genius in many respects. He managed to mix up moody and visionary temperaments, a loyal Romantic spirit, he never lost his roots and teachers' traditions. An indispensable composer? For me yes, he is! I can't live without his Symphony Nos. 1-6, 9-13 and 16. I feel good if rescue those.
I can only nod my head along with your own, Cesar. Langgaard is an extraordinary composer and it's a damn shame he died in obscurity.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 15, 2021, 06:25:16 PM
I can only nod my head along with your own, Cesar. Langgaard is an extraordinary composer and it's a damn shame he died in obscurity.
These have been better times for increasing the interest in his deserved popularity.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 15, 2021, 08:30:24 PM
These have been better times for increasing the interest in his deserved popularity.
Yes, but if he was actually acknowledged as the great composer I have no doubt that he is, perhaps he would have a better chance of being heard in the concert hall. His 1st symphony made quite the splash upon it's premiere with the Berliner Philharmoniker, but when his fellow Danes didn't pay him much attention. I often wonder what might've happened had left Denmark to pursue a more international career? Something to certainly ponder for sure.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 15, 2021, 08:39:18 PM
Yes, but if he was actually acknowledged as the great composer I have no doubt that he is, perhaps he would have a better chance of being heard in the concert hall. His 1st symphony made quite the splash upon it's premiere with the Berliner Philharmoniker, but when his fellow Danes didn't pay him much attention. I often wonder what might've happened had left Denmark to pursue a more international career? Something to certainly ponder for sure.
It seems this saying would apply to him pretty good: no prophet is accepted in his hometown, or IOW, nobody is prophet in their own land. I want to think he would have gone beyond in terms of harmony and he would have opt for avoiding "Romantic" excesses.
This sort of interview is quite interesting and enlightening:
A drama at the organ in Frue Kirke
Rued Langgaard speaks about Høstens Tid (Harvest Time), and about the vulgarisation that followed.
Berlingske Aftenavis, 21 April 1936
- I feel like a caged animal!
The composer, Rued Langgaard, who has been talking standing by the window sill looking out into Fredericiagade, his eyes like those of a vulture behind his lorgnettes, narrow as razor blades in the light from the window, walks up and down the floor as if impelled by the restless movements of his hands.
- I could put it like this: there is so much discord here in this country that anyone of a spiritual nature can't even die in peace!
He pauses between sentences, but his hands continue to talk their own clear language, as he clenches them behind his back or drums them on the window sill. It seems to be a conversation between a man and his hands rather than an interview; questions do not seem to reach him.
- They have built a wall up around me. But why? I have not even been able to get even a minor post as an organist, even though I have been applying for twenty years, twenty years. And I have not only applied, I have talked - talked and talked endlessly. And to absolutely no avail. Day after day, year after year, constant effort and conflict, so that a lot of the time I lie exhausted in bed. I don't believe that even someone on the dole could really understand what it is like, this struggle. At least he can feel bitterness or rage, but I am a composer, I have to continue to do my duty. Gade had an easier time of it, much easier.
- Do you feel akin to Gade?
- Oh yes! With the real Gade, that is, what I understand by Gade, and that is his later works. They are not played any more, either. They were full of the spirit. But now politics rules music, and the leading circles in the music world are guided by social considerations rather than musical. They hate the direction of Gade's work, the mood of it, the spirit. It is no use using the fact that Beethoven's Symphonies are played as an excuse, they are not the most perfect expression of spiritual beauty anyway. They do not satisfy that longing for deep feeling that is in us, in the people. In fact the people possess precisely what the leading musical circles lack - feeling. They give the people stones for Bread.
- Have you never had luck on your side?
- Yes, indeed. In 1913, in Berlin, when my 1st Symphony was performed. I have written eight, but the first one was given a rapturous reception. But then the World War came. Yes, the World War....
A prelude to "Everyman"
Tomorrow, Rued Langgaard is playing his new composition, "Messis", "Høstens Tid" ("Messis", "The Harvest Time") on the organ at the Cathedral.
- Why have you invited the public free of charge?
- Because people are afraid of organ music, and quite understandably, because they have destroyed and degraded our organs with the dead, screeching stops that belong to the time before Bach. Imagine that such rubbish should have a renaissance! The last time I gave a concert, 24 years ago, it was hard to get people to come. I had to pay for it myself, get financial guarantees in order to be able to present my works. The Cathedral will also have to be paid.
My composition has been written over two years; I call it a drama for organ, and it depicts the Crucifixion and four movements illustrating the words of Jesus himself about "The Harvest Time".
- Are you deeply religious?
- As a composer I am not especially religious. And even though the words of the Bible have inspired me to write this drama for organ, there are also other motives. For example, the time leading up to the World War, from Gade's death up to the World War, which I call The Harvest Time. At this point music reached such a height of splendour and glory, such a richness of beauty, that it can be compared to the time of the harvest in the biblical sense. Now, after this, we see the dissolution, the vulgarisation.
- Your symphonies are seldom performed.
- That is true. At the most they have been played twice, mostly at my own expense. The State Broadcasting Service has played two: "Det Himmelrivende" ("The Heaven-Rending") and "Ved Tordenskjolds Grav i Holmens Kirke" ("At Tordenskjold's Grave in Holmens Kirke"). On the other hand, they rejected one of my large compositions, variations on the major work my father left behind. It was interrupted by his death. My most recent work is a prelude to "Det gamle Spil om Enhver" ("Everyman"). Just as I had finished it, they decided not to perform it anyway. That's it, all the time and everywhere doors are slammed in my face as soon as I approach the threshold.
[Signed] nls. [Carsten Nielsen]
Taken from his webpage:
http://www.langgaard.dk/litt/interv/etdramae.htm
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 15, 2021, 09:33:41 PM
This sort of interview is quite interesting and enlightening:
A drama at the organ in Frue Kirke
Rued Langgaard speaks about Høstens Tid (Harvest Time), and about the vulgarisation that followed.
Berlingske Aftenavis, 21 April 1936
- I feel like a caged animal!
The composer, Rued Langgaard, who has been talking standing by the window sill looking out into Fredericiagade, his eyes like those of a vulture behind his lorgnettes, narrow as razor blades in the light from the window, walks up and down the floor as if impelled by the restless movements of his hands.
- I could put it like this: there is so much discord here in this country that anyone of a spiritual nature can't even die in peace!
He pauses between sentences, but his hands continue to talk their own clear language, as he clenches them behind his back or drums them on the window sill. It seems to be a conversation between a man and his hands rather than an interview; questions do not seem to reach him.
- They have built a wall up around me. But why? I have not even been able to get even a minor post as an organist, even though I have been applying for twenty years, twenty years. And I have not only applied, I have talked - talked and talked endlessly. And to absolutely no avail. Day after day, year after year, constant effort and conflict, so that a lot of the time I lie exhausted in bed. I don't believe that even someone on the dole could really understand what it is like, this struggle. At least he can feel bitterness or rage, but I am a composer, I have to continue to do my duty. Gade had an easier time of it, much easier.
- Do you feel akin to Gade?
- Oh yes! With the real Gade, that is, what I understand by Gade, and that is his later works. They are not played any more, either. They were full of the spirit. But now politics rules music, and the leading circles in the music world are guided by social considerations rather than musical. They hate the direction of Gade's work, the mood of it, the spirit. It is no use using the fact that Beethoven's Symphonies are played as an excuse, they are not the most perfect expression of spiritual beauty anyway. They do not satisfy that longing for deep feeling that is in us, in the people. In fact the people possess precisely what the leading musical circles lack - feeling. They give the people stones for Bread.
- Have you never had luck on your side?
- Yes, indeed. In 1913, in Berlin, when my 1st Symphony was performed. I have written eight, but the first one was given a rapturous reception. But then the World War came. Yes, the World War....
A prelude to "Everyman"
Tomorrow, Rued Langgaard is playing his new composition, "Messis", "Høstens Tid" ("Messis", "The Harvest Time") on the organ at the Cathedral.
- Why have you invited the public free of charge?
- Because people are afraid of organ music, and quite understandably, because they have destroyed and degraded our organs with the dead, screeching stops that belong to the time before Bach. Imagine that such rubbish should have a renaissance! The last time I gave a concert, 24 years ago, it was hard to get people to come. I had to pay for it myself, get financial guarantees in order to be able to present my works. The Cathedral will also have to be paid.
My composition has been written over two years; I call it a drama for organ, and it depicts the Crucifixion and four movements illustrating the words of Jesus himself about "The Harvest Time".
- Are you deeply religious?
- As a composer I am not especially religious. And even though the words of the Bible have inspired me to write this drama for organ, there are also other motives. For example, the time leading up to the World War, from Gade's death up to the World War, which I call The Harvest Time. At this point music reached such a height of splendour and glory, such a richness of beauty, that it can be compared to the time of the harvest in the biblical sense. Now, after this, we see the dissolution, the vulgarisation.
- Your symphonies are seldom performed.
- That is true. At the most they have been played twice, mostly at my own expense. The State Broadcasting Service has played two: "Det Himmelrivende" ("The Heaven-Rending") and "Ved Tordenskjolds Grav i Holmens Kirke" ("At Tordenskjold's Grave in Holmens Kirke"). On the other hand, they rejected one of my large compositions, variations on the major work my father left behind. It was interrupted by his death. My most recent work is a prelude to "Det gamle Spil om Enhver" ("Everyman"). Just as I had finished it, they decided not to perform it anyway. That's it, all the time and everywhere doors are slammed in my face as soon as I approach the threshold.
[Signed] nls. [Carsten Nielsen]
Taken from his webpage:
http://www.langgaard.dk/litt/interv/etdramae.htm
Most interesting Cesar and thanks for posting it. He comes across rather as I imagine him. I'd liked to have heard him asked about his views on Nielsen!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 15, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
It seems this saying would apply to him pretty good: no prophet is accepted in his hometown, or IOW, nobody is prophet in their own land. I want to think he would have gone beyond in terms of harmony and he would have opt for avoiding "Romantic" excesses.
It's difficult to imagine what kind of composer Langgaard would have developed into if he had achieved international success, but, honestly, what I find puzzling is even though Nielsen is the "greatest" Danish composer, it seems that even his star has faded nowadays.
I don't think Nielsen's star faded, but there's been a ton of recordings within the last say 3 decades, perhaps satisfying a lot of the market's demands. Based on my (vague) feelings, we are probably not seeing a lot of say V-W, Hindemith, Stravinsky, Lutoslawski, Messiaen or R.Strauss orchestral recordings either these days. And there's a new Nielsen Violin Concerto recording coming soon from DG, for example.
Regarding Langgaard's hostility towards Nielsen, it has been pointed out that there are actually also similarities in their production; the 6th symphony is often put forward in that respect. The hostility was, among other things, psychological, or idiosyncratic. Though with Nielsen, you don't see the same level of old-school, religiously influenced thinking, and musical nostalgia.
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 16, 2021, 07:10:55 AM
I don't think Nielsen's star faded, but there's been a ton of recordings within the last say 3 decades, perhaps satisfying a lot of the market's demands. Based on my (vague) feelings, we are probably not seeing a lot of say V-W, Hindemith, Stravinsky, Lutoslawski, Messiaen or R.Strauss orchestral recordings either these days. And there's a new Nielsen Violin Concerto recording coming soon from DG, for example.
Regarding Langgaard's hostility towards Nielsen, it has been pointed out that there are actually also similarities in their production; the 6th symphony is often put forward in that respect. The hostility was, among other things, psychological, or idiosyncratic. Though with Nielsen, you don't see the same level of old-school, religiously influenced thinking, and musical nostalgia.
Well, you're talking in past terms, I'm talking about the present. It doesn't seem like Nielsen is getting much attention. There's a new recording of Nielsen's VC coming out on DG? A link please! Curious about the performers especially.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 15, 2021, 09:33:41 PM
This sort of interview is quite interesting and enlightening:
A drama at the organ in Frue Kirke
Rued Langgaard speaks about Høstens Tid (Harvest Time), and about the vulgarisation that followed.
Berlingske Aftenavis, 21 April 1936
- I feel like a caged animal!
The composer, Rued Langgaard, who has been talking standing by the window sill looking out into Fredericiagade, his eyes like those of a vulture behind his lorgnettes, narrow as razor blades in the light from the window, walks up and down the floor as if impelled by the restless movements of his hands.
- I could put it like this: there is so much discord here in this country that anyone of a spiritual nature can't even die in peace!
He pauses between sentences, but his hands continue to talk their own clear language, as he clenches them behind his back or drums them on the window sill. It seems to be a conversation between a man and his hands rather than an interview; questions do not seem to reach him.
- They have built a wall up around me. But why? I have not even been able to get even a minor post as an organist, even though I have been applying for twenty years, twenty years. And I have not only applied, I have talked - talked and talked endlessly. And to absolutely no avail. Day after day, year after year, constant effort and conflict, so that a lot of the time I lie exhausted in bed. I don't believe that even someone on the dole could really understand what it is like, this struggle. At least he can feel bitterness or rage, but I am a composer, I have to continue to do my duty. Gade had an easier time of it, much easier.
- Do you feel akin to Gade?
- Oh yes! With the real Gade, that is, what I understand by Gade, and that is his later works. They are not played any more, either. They were full of the spirit. But now politics rules music, and the leading circles in the music world are guided by social considerations rather than musical. They hate the direction of Gade's work, the mood of it, the spirit. It is no use using the fact that Beethoven's Symphonies are played as an excuse, they are not the most perfect expression of spiritual beauty anyway. They do not satisfy that longing for deep feeling that is in us, in the people. In fact the people possess precisely what the leading musical circles lack - feeling. They give the people stones for Bread.
- Have you never had luck on your side?
- Yes, indeed. In 1913, in Berlin, when my 1st Symphony was performed. I have written eight, but the first one was given a rapturous reception. But then the World War came. Yes, the World War....
A prelude to "Everyman"
Tomorrow, Rued Langgaard is playing his new composition, "Messis", "Høstens Tid" ("Messis", "The Harvest Time") on the organ at the Cathedral.
- Why have you invited the public free of charge?
- Because people are afraid of organ music, and quite understandably, because they have destroyed and degraded our organs with the dead, screeching stops that belong to the time before Bach. Imagine that such rubbish should have a renaissance! The last time I gave a concert, 24 years ago, it was hard to get people to come. I had to pay for it myself, get financial guarantees in order to be able to present my works. The Cathedral will also have to be paid.
My composition has been written over two years; I call it a drama for organ, and it depicts the Crucifixion and four movements illustrating the words of Jesus himself about "The Harvest Time".
- Are you deeply religious?
- As a composer I am not especially religious. And even though the words of the Bible have inspired me to write this drama for organ, there are also other motives. For example, the time leading up to the World War, from Gade's death up to the World War, which I call The Harvest Time. At this point music reached such a height of splendour and glory, such a richness of beauty, that it can be compared to the time of the harvest in the biblical sense. Now, after this, we see the dissolution, the vulgarisation.
- Your symphonies are seldom performed.
- That is true. At the most they have been played twice, mostly at my own expense. The State Broadcasting Service has played two: "Det Himmelrivende" ("The Heaven-Rending") and "Ved Tordenskjolds Grav i Holmens Kirke" ("At Tordenskjold's Grave in Holmens Kirke"). On the other hand, they rejected one of my large compositions, variations on the major work my father left behind. It was interrupted by his death. My most recent work is a prelude to "Det gamle Spil om Enhver" ("Everyman"). Just as I had finished it, they decided not to perform it anyway. That's it, all the time and everywhere doors are slammed in my face as soon as I approach the threshold.
[Signed] nls. [Carsten Nielsen]
Taken from his webpage:
http://www.langgaard.dk/litt/interv/etdramae.htm
Most interesting, thanks!
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2021, 08:14:56 AM
Well, you're talking in past terms, I'm talking about the present. It doesn't seem like Nielsen is getting much attention. There's a new recording of Nielsen's VC coming out on DG? A link please! Curious about the performers especially.
It's difficult to talk about current concert life generally, because of the breaks or stand-stills of corona. The CD market is easier to follow.
The DG release will be with an Asian, female soloist; I read about it somewhere 2-3 days ago, but sadly I don't have a link or recall the name.
And BTW, DG is also recording a complete Nielsen symphonies set with Fabio Luisi and the Danish National Symphony O.
It has been set for release in April 2022, unless corona delays it.
I seem to remember the Violin Concerto news also pictured Luisi. Maybe-maybe we might even get the three concertos from DG too, then.
Good to see DG interest for a wider range of symphonists recently, cf. the Ives and Franz Schmidt complete symphonies sets, etc.
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 16, 2021, 08:52:38 AM
And BTW, DG is also recording a complete Nielsen symphonies set with Fabio Luisi and the Danish National Symphony O.
It has been set for release in April 2022, unless corona delays it.
I seem to remember the Violin Concerto news also pictured Luisi. Maybe-maybe we might even get the three concertos from DG too, then.
Good to see DG interest for a wider range of symphonists recently, cf. the Ives and Franz Schmidt complete symphonies sets, etc.
Yep, DG will be releasing a Nielsen cycle with Luisi and the Danish NSO:
https://slippedisc.com/2021/04/label-news-dg-signs-luisi/ (https://slippedisc.com/2021/04/label-news-dg-signs-luisi/)
I'm actually pretty excited for this one as I think Luisi is a superb conductor.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2021, 09:26:10 AM
(...)
I'm actually pretty excited for this one as I think Luisi is a superb conductor.
Totally agree!
Quote from: vandermolen on November 15, 2021, 10:16:51 PM
Most interesting Cesar and thanks for posting it. He comes across rather as I imagine him. I'd liked to have heard him asked about his views on Nielsen!
My pleasure, Jeffrey. Certainly, that would have been interesting to read!
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2021, 07:03:53 AM
It's difficult to imagine what kind of composer Langgaard would have developed into if he had achieved international success, but, honestly, what I find puzzling is even though Nielsen is the "greatest" Danish composer, it seems that even his star has faded nowadays.
According to my perception, the composers who are getting all the attention these days are Bruckner, Beethoven and many other Austro-German guys.
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 16, 2021, 07:10:55 AM
Regarding Langgaard's hostility towards Nielsen, it has been pointed out that there are actually also similarities in their production; the 6th symphony is often put forward in that respect. The hostility was, among other things, psychological, or idiosyncratic. Though with Nielsen, you don't see the same level of old-school, religiously influenced thinking, and musical nostalgia.
There are a few musical similarities between both, but the last statement does point out some significant differences.
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 16, 2021, 08:52:38 AM
And BTW, DG is also recording a complete Nielsen symphonies set with Fabio Luisi and the Danish National Symphony O.
It has been set for release in April 2022, unless corona delays it.
I seem to remember the Violin Concerto news also pictured Luisi. Maybe-maybe we might even get the three concertos from DG too, then.
Good to see DG interest for a wider range of symphonists recently, cf. the Ives and Franz Schmidt complete symphonies sets, etc.
Most interesting. Thanks for the good news.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 16, 2021, 06:23:03 PM
According to my perception, the composers who are getting all the attention these days are Bruckner, Beethoven and many other Austro-German guys.
Indeed. It seems Bruckner is getting recorded more and more --- not that I'm opposed to that as I love this composer, but it would be nice to see some composers who haven't had the same kind of exposure get more attention.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 16, 2021, 06:23:03 PM
According to my perception, the composers who are getting all the attention these days are Bruckner, Beethoven and many other Austro-German guys.
Rather a reversion, then.
I found this excellent article-review about his Fourth Symphony Løvfald worth reading. It contains the context of the work, the number of performances, etc.
I was delighted to read this, and I agree with Jens Cornelius on his appreciations, the author of that blog.
I had to cheat, because it's in Danish, so Google Translator to the rescue! 0:)
http://www.jenscornelius.dk/langgaards-loevfald-symfoni-nr-4/
Jens Cornelius... doesn't he write a tonne of the liner notes on Da Capo releases?
Yes, given his production I thought he was much older, but actually he was born in 1968. Has a website.
This year's Langgaard 2022 Festival in the attractive old town of Ribe takes place in early September. Other composers there, juxtaposed with Langggaard, will be Per Nørgård (who is turning 90 this year) and the electronic music pioneer Else Marie Pade.
http://langgaardfestival.dk/shortcodes/schedule/
Due to some fine initiatives, the work with a Langgaard permanent exhibition is proceeding; it will be placed in Ribe's 500-year old former Town Hall / Det Gamle Rådhus building, also used for weddings etc. According to rumours, exhibitions will include his old Bechstein piano, likely also used for concerts there ... I visited Ribe a couple of years ago, and there are a (very) few Langgaard items exhibited in the town's cathedral, where he worked, as well.
http://www.historie-online.dk/nyheder-og-aktiviteter-2-2/rued-langgaard-museum-i-ribe
https://www.sydvestjyskemuseer.dk/da/generel-information/aktuelt-oversigt/2020/rued-langgaard-museum-paa-vej-i-ribe/ (Danish)
https://www.vadehavskysten.com/ribe-esbjerg-fano/ribe-esbjerg-fano/old-town-hall-ribe-gdk610602
https://twitter.com/CorneliusJens/status/1522614174118993924
I've been to the cathedral. *rummages through photos*
Sakari Oramo and the Berlin Philharmonic are performing Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 whose recording will be available this autumn.
https://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/news/dacapo-records-enters-into-cooperation-with-legendary-orchestra-for-a-danish-outsiders-first
It'll be interesting to perceive how this orchestra will embrace this titan more than 100 years after its premiere.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 14, 2022, 07:19:30 PM
Sakari Oramo and the Berlin Philharmonic are performing Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 whose recording will be available this autumn.
https://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/news/dacapo-records-enters-into-cooperation-with-legendary-orchestra-for-a-danish-outsiders-first
It'll be interesting to perceive how this orchestra will embrace this titan more than 100 years after its premiere.
Interesting news, thank you. It will be the 4th recording after Stupel, Segerstam and Dausgaard, but besides the historical references with Berlin and the prestigiousness of it, I suppose Dacapo has concluded that Oramo's recording of the 2nd and 6th symphonies earned enough success to do this one as well.
Overall, the re-recording projects from Dacapo have been justified I think, but on the other hand, there's also some relevant stuff by Danish composers, that need premiere recordings - for example the last Nørholm symphonies, more N V Bentzon, Tarp and Klenau, Westergaard, Maegaard, Borup Jørgensen, Flemming Weis, Svend S Schultz, Sten Pade, Thyboe and Ebbe Hamerik, to mention some, besides a lot of younger composers.
Yet, as a whole, the state- and foundation-supported Dacapo catalogue has developed incredibly and now documents a lot of overlooked or rare material, that one could only dream of decades ago. And by Langgaard, there's only little not already recorded, if any. The same applies to Carl Nielsen, N W Gade and Per Nørgård, for example, though some releases may be out of print, on more or less obscure labels (Kontrapunkt, Paula, Classico/CDklassisk and Point especially, and of course with BIS, Bridge and Danacord having contributed substantially too).
Good news! I also like the fact that this recording is only part of a three-day mini-festival around Langgaard in Berlin. All good!
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 14, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
Good news! I also like the fact that this recording is only part of a three-day mini-festival around Langgaard in Berlin. All good!
Good news, indeed! I'll be waiting for this release of Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 with interest. And hopefully more recordings from these concerts will be released in due time.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 14, 2022, 07:19:30 PM
Sakari Oramo and the Berlin Philharmonic are performing Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 whose recording will be available this autumn.
https://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/news/dacapo-records-enters-into-cooperation-with-legendary-orchestra-for-a-danish-outsiders-first
It'll be interesting to perceive how this orchestra will embrace this titan more than 100 years after its premiere.
I'll definitely purchase this recording when it's available. Thanks for mentioning it, Cesar. I love Langgaard and think his 1st symphony is exquisite.
Sakari Oramo's Berlin Philharmonic recording of Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 has just been released and is solid but measured (respectable). Perhaps that is a result of this being Berlin where it needs to be respectful. Nothing is wrong, it just isn't a high octane or risky interpretation. I think that's the general problem with Langgaard. He rides the boundary of experimental and safe. This work straddles Richard Strauss opulence but Brahms conservatism too.
Quote from: relm1 on November 07, 2022, 04:17:21 PM
Sakari Oramo's Berlin Philharmonic recording of Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 has just been released and is solid but measured (respectable). Perhaps that is a result of this being Berlin where it needs to be respectful. Nothing is wrong, it just isn't a high octane or risky interpretation. I think that's the general problem with Langgaard. He rides the boundary of experimental and safe. This work straddles Richard Strauss opulence but Brahms conservatism too.
Interesting, I'll have to give it a listen one of these days. For me, that work has also Wagnerian influences. The symphony has its flaws, but I can't overlook how powerful, overwhelming and inspiriting it can be.
Quote from: relm1 on November 07, 2022, 04:17:21 PM
Sakari Oramo's Berlin Philharmonic recording of Langgaard's Symphony No. 1 has just been released and is solid but measured (respectable). Perhaps that is a result of this being Berlin where it needs to be respectful. Nothing is wrong, it just isn't a high octane or risky interpretation. I think that's the general problem with Langgaard. He rides the boundary of experimental and safe. This work straddles Richard Strauss opulence but Brahms conservatism too.
Most interesting! I hardly know this work even though I have the earlier (Chandos) recording.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 08, 2022, 01:38:40 AM
Most interesting! I hardly know this work even though I have the earlier (Chandos) recording.
I liked the Chandos, that's Jarvi, right?
Quote from: relm1 on November 08, 2022, 05:34:09 AM
I liked the Chandos, that's Jarvi, right?
Segerstam.
I will be coming to the Oramo recording from years of knowing the symphony only through Dausgaard (Dacapo). It looks like Oramo's is the fastest of all (five minutes faster than Dausgaard), though of course speed and excitement do not perfectly correlate.
relm1 is a reliable guide in my experience, but I'll still go in excited to hear the newcomer.
Quote from: relm1 on November 07, 2022, 04:17:21 PM
Perhaps that is a result of this being Berlin where it needs to be respectful.
I think the Oramo series is less about offering compelling new interpretations (though some listeners may find them there), and more about encouraging people to think about Langgaard as a mainstream composer, because look, a very famous orchestra is recording him.
When art songs are concerned, I do not feel too enthusiastic about them. However, I decided to try this recent release to do a little change on my usual listening sessions. All of these songs span from 1906 to 1917, rather early years taking into account that Langgaard was born in 1893, and judging by what I heard, these are very fine, alluring pieces in a quite romantic (or late-romantic) fashion, gorgeously performed and recorded. I found the Sange af Jenny Blicher-Clausen (Songs by Jenny Blicher-Clausen), BVN 66 especially subtle, intimate, delicate.
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.224754.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9q3Fqop.jpg)