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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: James on May 21, 2010, 09:05:15 AM

Title: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: James on May 21, 2010, 09:05:15 AM
Small instrumental ensembles. "a company of musicians together".

2 main categories:

the first, "broken consorts", mixed ensemble ... feat. instruments of different types, a typical line-up would be bass & treble viol, recorder or flute and 2 or 3 plucked instruments, such as a lute, theorbo, cittern & bandora.

the second format (which produced the greatest music), the "whole" consort which feat. instruments of just one family, perhaps with keyboard or lute accompaniment. whole consorts were written for recorders, violins, sackbuts and many other instruments, but by far the most popular choice were the various members of the viol family: bowed, fretted, flat-backed string instruments that were eventually eclipsed by violins, violas & cellos. Composers revelled in the instrument combination that - much like a string quartet, which would become popular more than a century later - offered great flexibility and unrivalled expressive power.

Tallis,Byrd,Dowland,Gibbons,Lawes,Purcell & others ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consort_of_instruments
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Opus106 on May 21, 2010, 09:44:06 AM
Thanks for starting this thread, James. The EMC thread was hard to wade through to find information on consort music.

I tend to prefer the "mixed" consort which I find has more instrumental colour than the  (pseudo-synaesthetic) "dark" sounds of a viol consort. Nevertheless, I'm interested in hearing that also. (The 5-disc set by Fretwork, recommended by Que, is on my wish-list.)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 21, 2010, 10:33:34 AM
One thing we need is a complete recording of Johann Hermann Schein's Banchetto Musicale, from 1617. This is a set of 20 suites for ensemble, instrumentation flexible, and one of the first significant collections of purely instrumental music. You can get bits 'n' pieces here 'n' there, but I've never seen a complete recording.

Otherwise I like composers of this time like Byrd, Gibbons and Sweelinck, tho' mainly for their keyboard music.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: hornteacher on May 21, 2010, 03:17:29 PM
My favorite individual pieces of consort music are:

La Mourisque - Tylman Susato
Pastyme With Good Company - Henry VIII

Then there's also all the dances in Terpsichore by Michael Praetorius.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: False_Dmitry on May 21, 2010, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: hornteacher on May 21, 2010, 03:17:29 PM
Then there's also all the dances in Terpsichore by Michael Praetorius.

They're great fun, but I'm not really sure they are "consort music" though? ;)  Praetorius was a music publisher as well as a composer, and the "Terpsichore" collection appears to be mainly the music of masques and ballets from France, which MP arranged in 4/5-part settings and published.  The originals must have been from lavish courtly masques, if we are to judge from titles like "Dance Of The Apprentice Sorcerors Who Must Dance Before The King", "Chicken Dance", and the famous "La Battaille" (which, by bizarre coincidence, I heard this evening included in a kid's pantomime version of Alice In Wonderland).  I would imagine these pieces must have been played by ochestra-sized ensembles (with those new-fangled fiddles on the top lines), and not in one-to-a-part consort groups.

I'll put in a small bid for the consort music of Matthew Locke, Purcell's predecessor as Master of The King's Violins, and joint composer of the first (?) English opera, CUPID & DEATH (music now sadly lost).  His magnificent and solemn music "for the cornetts and sackbutts" marks the end of an era - within a generation the tradition of playing these renaissance-era instruments had disappeared entirely.  His two collections of music for "broken consort" are marvellous examples of the sophistication mid-C17th English music enjoyed, despite the prevailing Puritan mood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQyuUWVfPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQyuUWVfPM)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: The new erato on May 21, 2010, 10:41:29 PM
My two favorites of this repertory is the William Lawes and Anthony Holborne discs done by Savall on the Alia Vox label. They seem to click with me in a way that various recordings of British ensembles don't (I have some discs by the likes of Purcell, Jenkins, Gibbons etc by the likes of Fretworks et al). That probably makes me some kind of heretic.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: premont on May 22, 2010, 04:54:27 AM
Quote from: James on May 21, 2010, 09:05:15 AM
Small instrumental ensembles. "a company of musicians together".

By using the specific word "consort" , you restrict the possible options almost exclusively to English music. My favorite English consort music is Dowland´s melancolic Lacrimae.

But outstanding ensemble music was composed elsewhere e.g. in Italy (Canzona´s by the Gabrieli´s and Frescobaldi - to mention some of the most prominent). 
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: The new erato on May 22, 2010, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: James on May 22, 2010, 09:16:15 AM
Anthony Holborne, an Elizabethan composer who, despite his obscurity, impressed NASA employees sufficiently to ensure that a sample of his work was included on the Voyager spaceshot as an example of human achievement. He published an important consort collection entitled Pavans, Galliards & Almains in 1599. Though his music lacks Lawe's daring or Byrd's polyphonic genius, it's nonetheless highly compelling, and sounds superbly rich & warm in this performance from Jordi Savall's group. The viols are complemented by keyboard instruments & occasional percussion.
Quote from: erato on May 21, 2010, 10:41:29 PM
My two favorites of this repertory is the William Lawes and Anthony Holborne discs done by Savall on the Alia Vox label. They seem to click with me in a way that various recordings of British ensembles don't (I have some discs by the likes of Purcell, Jenkins, Gibbons etc by the likes of Fretworks et al). That probably makes me some kind of heretic.

:D
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: kishnevi on May 22, 2010, 04:56:30 PM
Speaking of Fretwork, but non-English music:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nyFefpw7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: False_Dmitry on May 23, 2010, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: James on May 23, 2010, 09:21:55 AM

Written for upper-class amateurs, the fantasia was essentially a free form in several movements performed by a consort of between 3 & 7 players.

Yes, and there's a further sociological element to this repertoire - the Puritans had come to power in England under Cromwell, and they had closed the theatres as an "immoral entertainment".  Although strictly musical concerts were not banned,  in practice they were forced underground - and many of the performers lost their livelihoods, and entered other professions (many as music-masters to amateurs).   All of this drove music-making into the home, where roundhead rule had less control,  and there was a corresponding "boom" in both the performance and publication of music for domestic consumption.  Even after the Restoration Of The Theatres, the enthusiasm for home performance continued unabated for several decades.  Effectively it kept the viola-da-gamba "in use" in England, long after it had been supplanted by the violin family (the instrument of the professional player) in Italy and Germany.   There's persuasive evidence that even once the theatres were reopened,  the bass-lines in orchestras in England (ie in Purcell's operas etc) were played on bass viols, and not cellos, until around 1700 - and there weren't any double-basses or violones in England until around the same period (when Italian & French professionals arrived, with their own instruments, to take up this role).
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 23, 2010, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: James on May 23, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Gibbons was a versatile and wide-ranging composer.

Glenn Gould once claimed that Gibbons was his favorite composer. He also did a recording of music by Gibbons and Byrd (on piano!) that I think is one of his best discs.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: listener on May 23, 2010, 11:44:00 PM
"16th & 17th Century Consort Musik"

that rules out Prince Albert, then.  (19th century)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 24, 2010, 02:47:20 AM
The info on William Lawes (hitherto unknown to me) is intriguing. I'm contemplating putting this composer on my To Buy list. Particularly due to comments like

Quote from: James on May 23, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
Lawes revels in dissonances and unexpected changes of key, sometimes to the point that the results sound positively strange - as in the end of the first movement of the Sett in F major.

The connection between early music and modern music always interests me.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Que on March 16, 2013, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on March 16, 2013, 01:51:03 PM

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)

Dip Your Ears, No. 129 (Viols and Organ)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/03/dip-your-ears-no-129-viols-and-organ.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/03/dip-your-ears-no-129-viols-and-organ.html)
"Consorts to the Organ" confusingly means exactly what it says: a consort – of viols – to accompany a – chamber – organ. The consort makes the majority of the merry noise of the musicke of Billy Lawes (1602 – 1645)...

You missed one, Jens!  ;D And it is even the more suitable thread... 8)

Q
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: petrarch on March 16, 2013, 07:30:26 PM
All of the Jordi Savall releases mentioned are exceedingly good (I am an avid collector of his stuff, with some 110 releases of his). The following contains works from lesser known composers but is equally good:

[asin]B0000242AT[/asin]
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: petrarch on March 16, 2013, 07:45:50 PM
And for completeness, here are the remaining Consort Music releases by Savall I would recommend:

[asin]B0000CEWV4[/asin]

[asin]B00004R7PE[/asin]

[asin]B0000501A5[/asin]

[asin]B00004R7PC[/asin]
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Rinaldo on March 16, 2013, 07:54:19 PM
Quote from: Velimir on May 24, 2010, 02:47:20 AM
The info on William Lawes (hitherto unknown to me) is intriguing. I'm contemplating putting this composer on my To Buy list. Particularly due to comments like

The connection between early music and modern music always interests me.

Made me immediately jump on the internets to sample this guy and -- whoa! I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: HIPster on March 16, 2013, 08:34:06 PM
Agreed Rinaldo!

Thank you for posting all of those Petrarch.  Tempting. . .
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: jlaurson on March 17, 2013, 04:39:51 AM
Quote from: Que on March 16, 2013, 02:46:53 PM
You missed one, Jens!  ;D And it is even the more suitable thread... 8)

Q

Ah! Thanks. I didn't find that one, when I was searching for an appropriate place.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 17, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
One of my favorite pieces of music, and possibly favorite composer of this era, is Dowland's Lachrimae. Dowland was the Prince of Melancholy and this music is the epitome of his genius. The Parley of Instruments with their baroque violins, and the viol-group Dowland Consort are two fine recordings, and a great comparison for their different offerings in tone.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nHgSObtVL._SY300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K3299RYML.jpg)


Another great collection is from countertenor Robin Blaze and the gourp Concordia performing consort songs by William Byrd.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51krjK1Dh5L._SX300_.jpg)


Another from Phantasm, this time with a recording of Orlando Gibbons.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TVLS7bt6L._SY300_.jpg)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: huntsman on March 17, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
As a chap very new to classical music I would like to know the difference between consort and chamber music.

Anyone?
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: petrarch on March 17, 2013, 07:03:36 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 17, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
One of my favorite pieces of music, and possibly favorite composer of this era, is Dowland's Lachrimae.

Indeed. One rendition I am very partial to is Thomas Morley's Lachrimae Pavane for keyboard, after Dowland's famous work.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 18, 2013, 02:27:56 AM
Quote from: huntsman on March 17, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
As a chap very new to classical music I would like to know the difference between consort and chamber music.

Anyone?

Not sure how accurate this is, but..."consort" was primarily used in England referring to a small set up of instruments. It predates the term "chamber", but they are very similar in meaning.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 18, 2013, 02:33:43 AM
Quote from: petrarch on March 17, 2013, 07:03:36 AM
Indeed. One rendition I am very partial to is Thomas Morley's Lachrimae Pavane for keyboard, after Dowland's famous work.

Hey, petrarch  :)

Not sure if I'm familiar with Morley's, I do however have this disc with Patrick Ayrton performing a Pavana Lachrymae by Byrd after Dowland. I only have the MP3 of this disc so I'm missing the booklet information.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61eTEJtKM-L._SY350_.jpg)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Octave on March 18, 2013, 03:22:44 AM
Quote from: huntsman on March 17, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
As a chap very new to classical music I would like to know the difference between consort and chamber music.
Anyone?

GMG veterans might differ with me, huntsman, but I think you could do much worse than to get that cheap Fretwork ENGLISH MUSIC 5cd as a first (?) helping of some of this music.  I like all the music therein, but the two discs of Lawes knocked me out.  I am overdue to hear more of his music, which I will do soon. 
Consorts of viols make me think of cellos melting, though I have never actually heard cellos melting.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: val on March 18, 2013, 05:45:03 AM
Purcell and Gibbons works for Consort of Viols. The works of Gibbons are really extraordinary. Not forgetting the Concertos for viols of Sainte-Colombe.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: huntsman on March 18, 2013, 07:31:11 AM
So consort is a word to describe the chamber ensemble, but with specificity to period?

Well, I dived right in and ordered the one Lawes album, (Knock somethingorother) and can't wait for it to dribble in slowly via our amazingly efficient postal (lack of) service...  >:D

Thanks for the replies!  ;D
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: petrarch on March 18, 2013, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: huntsman on March 18, 2013, 07:31:11 AM
So consort is a word to describe the chamber ensemble, but with specificity to period?

And geography.
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: huntsman on March 18, 2013, 07:57:26 PM
How so?
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: ibanezmonster on March 18, 2013, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: huntsman on March 18, 2013, 07:57:26 PM
How so?


Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 18, 2013, 02:27:56 AM
Not sure how accurate this is, but..."consort" was primarily used in England referring to a small set up of instruments. It predates the term "chamber", but they are very similar in meaning.
the bold part?
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Que on March 18, 2013, 11:03:17 PM
Oh, come on guys... 8) It takes 5 seconds:

QuoteA consort of instruments was a phrase used in England during the 16th and 17th centuries to indicate an instrumental ensemble. These could be of the same or a variety of instruments. Consort music enjoyed considerable popularity at court and in households of the wealthy in the Elizabethan era and many pieces were written for consorts by the major composers of the period. In the Baroque era consort music was absorbed into chamber music.

Q
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: huntsman on March 26, 2013, 07:09:51 AM
Imagine if we Googled every question - we'd save ourselves hours monthly on a host of topic-specific web sites...

;)
Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Jo498 on January 02, 2018, 04:53:39 AM
Any comments on this one? Still a contender or mainly of historical interest?

[asin]B0012GSKB2[/asin]

Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2018, 05:33:07 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 02, 2018, 04:53:39 AM
Any comments on this one? Still a contender or mainly of historical interest?

[asin]B0012GSKB2[/asin]

It's hard for me to comment with total confidence because I don't have exactly the same recording that you linked. But I do have quite a lot of the music played by the same people. It would be good if you could find a detailed listing of what's on there.

I can say that although I'm not a great Lawes person, if there was more like Leonhardt etc playing the D minor sonata with organ I'd be his biggest fan. I can also say that Leonhardt playing solo Farnaby, Tisdale, Byrd, Bull etc is sensational. 

The sound of the consort music is OK, perfectly enjoyable to hear if obviously dated. The solo harpsichord music is even better recorded.

But that amazon link mentions Locke (Consort of Fower Parts) and The Old Spagnoletta and lots of other stuff I don't know about, maybe played by Harnoncourt or Thomas Binkley.

Title: Re: 16th & 17th Century Consort Musik - your favorites?
Post by: Jo498 on January 02, 2018, 07:40:33 AM
Thanks, it is probably a compilation from three or more Das Alte Werk LPs; from the clips I also liked the sound of the keyboard music best.
This is the most detailed content info I can find:
http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/382252,0825646976546/das-alte-werk-english-music-of-the-17th-century