GMG Classical Music Forum

I am beginning to discover this composer, what works should I start first.
so far i have heard:
Piano concertos 1,2,3,4
piano concerto in C Op.34a
piano concerto in A major
piano concerto in G major op. 73
Piano Concerto in A flat major op. 113
Piano concerto in F major
Piano Concerto in A major WoO 24

his trumpet concerto is a favorite among trumpeters...i played it on a recital.  great tune.

dj

Hummel's masses are exquisite, and rank alongside Haydn's late masses . . . . . .

Go for the Hickox recordings:

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MJF01AYQL._SS400_.jpg)

(http://www.classical963fm.com/review/images/147_image_large.jpg)

I have this which is excellent and deserving of more attention. You can hear the Haydn influence at times as Haydn trained Hummel for a period.

Hummel is one composer I don't know anything about.
If he is Haydn-like he is worth exploring...

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 02:49:28 PM
Hummel is one composer I don't know anything about.
If he is Haydn-like he is worth exploring...

Hummel is a romanticized Haydn . . . . . .

Quote from: D Minor on May 03, 2007, 02:51:39 PM
Hummel is a romanticized Haydn . . . . . .

So he should be as he lived 1778-1837. He should be Beethoven-like.  ;)

Naxos has many Hummel discs. This should be very good:

(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9669/414p6mr007laa240cz0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 03:01:32 PM
He should be Beethoven-like.  ;)

Only Brahms can make that claim . . . . . . .

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 03:01:32 PM
Naxos has many Hummel discs. This should be very good:

(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9669/414p6mr007laa240cz0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Yes, check out that Missa Solemnis . . . . . . . Good stuff . . . . . . .

Quote from: D Minor on May 03, 2007, 03:07:50 PM
Yes, check out that Missa Solemnis . . . . . . . Good stuff . . . . . . .

Okay! I'll try to get it in the near future (I try not to buy CDs this month)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 03:14:35 PM
Okay! I'll try to get it in the near future (I try not to buy CDs this month)

Elgar,
If you want to get a Hummel Naxos disk, and are just starting out on Hummel, I strongly recommend the disk with piano concertos 2 & 3 (in a minor & b minor, respectively). I have all his concerti, and those 2 are my favorites, so they make a nice coupling on this disk. :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 03, 2007, 04:08:02 PM
Elgar,
If you want to get a Hummel Naxos disk, and are just starting out on Hummel, I strongly recommend the disk with piano concertos 2 & 3 (in a minor & b minor, respectively). I have all his concerti, and those 2 are my favorites, so they make a nice coupling on this disk. :)

8)

Thanks Gurn for the rec. My wishlist grows fast!  ;D

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 04:10:46 PM
Thanks Gurn for the rec. My wishlist grows fast!  ;D

You're welcome.

Yes, mine too. I am ambivalent about that... :-\

8)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2007, 03:01:32 PM
So he should be as he lived 1778-1837. He should be Beethoven-like.  ;)

Naxos has many Hummel discs. This should be very good:

(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9669/414p6mr007laa240cz0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

the thing is, he is not very Beethoven-like, he's more Mozartian. Chopin was an admirer of his works btw.

Quote from: MahlerTitan on May 03, 2007, 04:30:33 PM
the thing is, he is not very Beethoven-like, he's more Mozartian. Chopin was an admirer of his works btw.

Quite agree. At least early on, he sounded quite Mozartian. Later, he fell more under the influence of composers like Weber, who was the wellspring of Romanticism, IMO. Note that a lot of his later works are things like potpourris and fantasias, a sure sign that he was abandoning the classical style.

BTW, he was also very good at arranging orchestral works into chamber works. I have 7 Mozart piano concertos and 2 symphonies that he redid for Fortepiano, Flute, Viola & Cello. They are really quite good! :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 03, 2007, 04:51:08 PM
BTW, he was also very good at arranging orchestral works into chamber works. I have 7 Mozart piano concertos and 2 symphonies that he redid for Fortepiano, Flute, Viola & Cello. They are really quite good! :)

Gurn, that sounds absolutely charming!

What CD do you have? Who are the performers?

Quote from: D Minor on May 03, 2007, 04:54:03 PM
Gurn, that sounds absolutely charming!

What CD do you have? Who are the performers?

d,
They are 4 disks on BIS. The performers are Fumiko Shiraga (piano)/ Wiese (Flute)/ Clemente (Viola)/ Bényi (Cello). The concerti are #10, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, & 26, and also symphony #40. On another disk that I haven't dug out in a while (I'm not as buried as Harry in Elgar's picture, but near as dammit), I have symphony #40 again and also 41. Can't remember any details about the players, I'll dig it out later if you are interested, but I would bet it is OOP, since I got it 3-4 years ago... :-\

8)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N0C14DVNL._AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 03, 2007, 05:03:52 PM
d,
They are 4 disks on BIS. The performers are Fumiko Shiraga (piano)/ Wiese (Flute)/ Clemente (Viola)/ Bényi (Cello). The concerti are #10, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, & 26, and also symphony #40. On another disk that I haven't dug out in a while (I'm not as buried as Harry in Elgar's picture, but near as dammit), I have symphony #40 again and also 41. Can't remember any details about the players, I'll dig it out later if you are interested, but I would bet it is OOP, since I got it 3-4 years ago... :-\

8)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N0C14DVNL._AA240_.jpg)

Thanks, Gurn.  The BIS recording of Hummel's arrangement of Mozart's Piano Concerti looks super . . . . . .

There's a great Hummel 2-cd set of his piano trios on MDG played by the Trio Parnassus.  I've never heard Hummel played with such gusto and sharp attacks; it's a 'go for the throat' set of performances.

Quote from: Don on May 03, 2007, 09:05:38 PM
There's a great Hummel 2-cd set of his piano trios on MDG played by the Trio Parnassus.  I've never heard Hummel played with such gusto and sharp attacks; it's a 'go for the throat' set of performances.

The Piano Trios are absolutely wonderful though recommendation will be the Beaux Arts Trio on Philips

Quote from: Holden on May 03, 2007, 09:10:17 PM
The Piano Trios are absolutely wonderful though recommendation will be the Beaux Arts Trio on Philips

What did you think of the MDG set?

Quote from: D Minor on May 03, 2007, 02:15:06 PM
Hummel's masses are exquisite, and rank alongside Haydn's late masses . . . . . .

Go for the Hickox recordings:

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MJF01AYQL._SS400_.jpg)

Indeed....the three discs in this series are toward the top of my wish-list.

Quote from: Bogey on May 03, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Indeed....the three discs in this series are toward the top of my wish-list.

Yup, they are top grade.  That Naxos choral disc is also stunning.  And I agree that Hummel's music sounds more like Mozart than Haydn.

Quote from: Don on May 03, 2007, 09:21:58 PM
Yup, they are top grade.  That Naxos choral disc is also stunning.   And I agree that Hummel's music sounds more like Mozart than Haydn.

Just sampled the Gloria of the Te Deum....now on my wish list as well.

Can't believe that I missed this 'new' Hummel thread (must have been out of town!) - Gurn started a Hummel thread on the old forum - CHECK HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2740.0.html), which has some excellent (and similar) recommendations.  Since that time, I've added the Piano Trios 2-CD set w/ the Trio Parnassus to my collection, which already been discussed - quite excellent; and the Clarinet Quartet w/  L'Archibudelli - but plenty of other instrumental works to consider, and I must start exploring the vocal discs discussed!  :)

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MS3PPWG2L._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/611Q6QCF5YL._AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: SonicMan on May 20, 2007, 07:47:44 AM
Can't believe that I missed this 'new' Hummel thread (must have been out of town!) - Gurn started a Hummel thread on the old forum - CHECK HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2740.0.html), which has some excellent (and similar) recommendations.  Since that time, I've added the Piano Trios 2-CD set w/ the Trio Parnassus to my collection, which already been discussed - quite excellent; and the Clarinet Quartet w/  L'Archibudelli - but plenty of other instrumental works to consider, and I must start exploring the vocal discs discussed!  :)

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MS3PPWG2L._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/611Q6QCF5YL._AA240_.jpg)

Those piano trios look mighty tempting . . . . . . .

Quote from: D Minor on May 20, 2007, 08:19:38 AM
Those piano trios look mighty tempting . . . . . . .

Another great aspect of the Piano Trios set is that we get to hear Hummel's development as his music matures. 

There is a superb CD of Hummel's piano sonatas in Hyperion, played by Stephen Hough. His nervous playing suits Hummel's music very well, as it is evident also from his piano concertos CD for Chandos. The music is extraordinary and you can easily guess why he was highly appreciated by Schubert and Chopin; Hummel at his best is a first-rate composer.

It is a pity, for example, that he just wrote 3 string quartets. Even if his predilection for the piano is more than evident, those works are magnificent. For me, the jewel among them is the Menuetto from the second string quartet in G major: a violent minuet in the best Haydnesque style, followed by a trio of Mozartian transparency and Hummelian textures and of which I'd say it is one of the greatest refinements of folkloric-inspired chamber music I've ever listened to. The contrast between trio and minuet clearly reinforces the qualities of each section: one sophisticated, the other popular; one massive, the other delicate; one "symphonical", the other "concertante". But the wonderful simplicity of the trio is quite unique; I would say I have seldom been so touched by a single string quartet movement as it was with this one.

Finally, some words on the piano trios. I totally agree with Don's appreciation. It is easy to perceive in them how Hummel develops as a composer. But even the earliest trios have remarkable moments; as a group, they are one of the great monuments of classical chamber music. There are breathtaking moments, as the Un poco larghetto from op. 93, which shows that Beethoven was by no means composing alone in Europe during those decades.

In my very humble opinion, this is not music from a second-rate composer who should be revived in order to get "a complete panorama" of the era: Hummel's best works are essential for knowing and understanding late classicism.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 04:46:14 AM
the thing i quickly learned from listening to some Hummel was how avant-garde Beethoven must have been then.

And the thing I quickly learned from listening to some Chopin was how important must have been Hummel for his development as a musician.

In fact, for "avant garde" I wouldn't precisely think of Hummel, but of Reicha. That speaks for the characteristics of their music, but not for its quality (which is superb in both cases).

Are you heavily familiar with some of the more obscure composers of that time period? Beethoven only sounded ahead-of-his-time to me before I really got in depth into the era. I quickly discovered that he wasn't really doing anything bizarre or "forward-looking" that hadn't already been done by someone else. While Beethoven was in large part near the very front of the wave of musical progress, he was hardly creating it.

Anyway, Hummel is one of my absolute top favourite composers. I've got to add my recommendation for the Hough recording of the Piano Concerti 2&3. I'd also recommend that somebody record at least one of his operas! As far as I know, not one of them has ever been recorded, or even performed in the 20th or 21st century. And for the composer himself, I wish he'd written at least one symphony in his later years.

http://www.geocities.com/mbfleur/Works_Catalog_of_Hummel.pdf

To not even get really obscure: Grétry or Méhul for orchestral textures, Dussek for use of the piano, or Reicha for experimentations in chamber music. To be fair to Beethoven, his last Cello Sonata has one movement that is pretty edgy for the time. I'm not sure that experimentation was really his thing, though. I never got the impression that he was actually attempting to do something "new", whereas Reicha did some really weird stuff with that express purpose.

Er, that's what I'm saying. I don't think Beethoven had any "innovations" with which they could be "on par". Also note that, combined as a whole, I like Beethoven's music more than I like any of these other four composers I've named, so I'm not talking about what I like more.

Check out Grétry's opera Richard cœur de Lion.

Méhul's Symphony #1 was written at almost the exact same time as Beethoven's Symphony #5 and, though neither could have possibly been familiar with the other's, Robert Schumann thought that Méhul had copied from Beethoven. He wasn't aware that this would have been physically impossible! (Indeed, Méhul's came out first.) The similarities in the slow movement of each are fairly eerie, but I think this shows that neither Beethoven nor Méhul were doing anything really bizarre or unusual here, nothing their audiences would have found shocking. I mean, they had to get paid.

For the piano, try Dussek's programme sonata Le Retour à Paris or Wölfl's similar Non Plus Ultra. Wölfl's work, in order to maximise difficulty, ends up doing some stuff that sounds very out of place for its time; I don't personally care for the sacrifices he made for the sake of technicality, but it ends up making it sound like a piece from the 1830s or even 1840s for some passages.

Reicha... oh boy. Heheh, Reicha was maybe the most deliberately "experimental" composer of all time, at the least until the 20th century. I don't really know one specific thing to recommend. Sometimes I think he was trying on purpose to make the listener be surprised or even uncomfortable. Apparently, his string quartets, in the process of being recorded for the first time, contained some really abnormal stuff. I'm interested in those when they finally come out! In the meantime, much of his chamber music is already available. Not all of it is experimental, but a lot of it is; chances are, you won't have to sift through much of his music to find something containing the bizarre.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 06:47:15 AM
...another thing i noticed too, from listening to some Hummel is how quickly superseded he became by Romantic pianists such as Chopin & Liszt.

This argumentation is, from my point of view, weak. With the same logic you should say that Beethoven came superseded by Schumann or Brahms.

My perspective is the opposite: the important thing is that Hummel's music influenced Chopin, and Beethoven's influenced Schumann, and in both regards there is a continuity that honours the older composers.

Quote...new and more elaborate Sonata and symphonic forms etc.

For this, try Reicha. If you are a lover of musical structure analysis, you will find that Beethoven's solutions were often more conventional than, for example, Reicha's wind quintets.

But, sincerely, "elaboration" doesn't increase with time. In many regards, for example, Mozart's piano concertos are more complex in structure than Beethoven's.

QuoteCan you please list some specific works from these composers that highlight their great innovations that are on par with those of LvB. Thanks.

Which other "great innovations" in particular would you like to discuss? Thanks.

I just wanted to point out that "Hummel" means "bumble-bee" in German.

Quote from: M forever on August 19, 2007, 08:29:21 AM
I just wanted to point out that "Hummel" means "bumble-bee" in German.

So Rimsky-Korsakov didn't just pay attention to Mozart and Salieri, but also to another famous composer of the era with one of his works... ;)

I do suggest Beethoven was not a great innovator. You can call it silly if you want, but I'm not alone in this. I just don't know of anything he did that was a "first", in terms of musical development. What innovation did he do? What groundwork did he lay? You name something Beethoven did that was supposedly new to him, and you can bet your bottom dollar someone else did it first. Whether you think what Beethoven did was better or not is your opinion, but that has nothing to do with whether or not he was the first to do something. He's one of my favourite composers, but I can't think of any "new" thing he ever did.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 08:51:35 AM
Beethoven often used Mozart as the model earlier on, but his music is much more complex than Mozarts, and in the earlier LvB Piano Concertos they sound already like a more "advanced" Mozart...but Mozart's shadow definitely looms over many of them and other earlier LvB compositions.....however the 4th & 5th PCs take it further...as does most of Beethoven's mid and especially late output does...

James, with such an appreciation of Mozart's music I can just tell you that not even a thousand pages would arrive to convince you minimally that any composer of the classical era could be compared with Beethoven. It is not a problem of their music, but, I'm afraid, of your position.

Hummel's influence is, undeniably, smaller than Beethoven's in the music that came later. He may have been less "progressive" than Beethoven. Beethoven may be a greater composer than Hummel: granted. But the proportion is by no means the one of a colossus at the side of a pigmy, as you seem to suggest. And the state of music during 1800-1827 wasn't at all "Beethoven in front of a horde of musicians who kept stuck in Mozart's paradigms". But to realize that you have to explore the great names of the era, a task for which I wish you very good luck and fabulous discoveries.

QuoteI do suggest Beethoven was not a great innovator.

Anyway, Josh, I guess this opinion is an excess. I'm thinking, for example, about the late string quartets. If we have to avoid the position of attributing Beethoven the whole development of music after him, we must avoid also the one of ignoring his real contribution.

I would kindly suggest that you listen to composers other than the most famous, if you really believe what you're saying is true. It's not a "side", it's simply deeper exploration of the period. I'm just forced to wonder how much of Reicha's chamber music you've listened to before making your statements.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 09:16:29 AM
...he did elaborate and further development form. i.e. Symphonic, sonata, string quartets etc.

This sounds to me like Haydn.

QuoteInnovative doesnt mean first. He obviously built upon what came before...but he did so with such staggering genius, honed and distilled into staggering results...

Compared to what? Please explain something concrete. Compare the overtures to Coriolan (Beethoven) and Cherubini's Médée. Compare Hummel's piano sonatas to Beethoven's. Compare Méhul's symphonies to Beethoven's. Perhaps "going against history", as Josh is doing, is a serious mistake, but speaking about music you haven't ever seriously listened to, in my opinion, is an even more serious one.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 09:25:18 AM
Thank you, that is all I was saying, he was a very conservative composer esp. when you hear Beethoven...

I didn't say that: I said that Beethoven was more progressive than Hummel, what is totally different.

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 09:29:35 AM
I said elaboration & development of form...you know what those words mean right?

Which form do you want to discuss? The use of monothematism in Haydn's sonata form, or Reicha's inclusion of tertiary subjects? Or the canonic interventions in Haydn's instrumental works?

Quote from: James on August 19, 2007, 09:40:49 AM
None of that thanks.
No need to get pedantic over this you know,  :)
all you have to do is merely listen to the works to hear the evolution and renewal of form.. its pretty obvious.

I'm not pedantic. You asked if I knew something about "elaboration and development of form", what is contradictory to your actual position of "merely listening".

What I really advice you is precisely to listen to the works of Hummel, Reicha and so many unfairly forgotten masters of that time. I hope that, if this thread continues, it will contribute to stimulate your curiosity. That would be a first step, of which I would be very glad. ;)

And now, back to Hummel!

"so take it easy"

???


"I doubt its as good though"

I can't imagine listening to a piece I'd never heard before after fixing pre-judgement into my head like that, but whatever floats your boat.

Just a few suggestions, for not going away from the subject for too long. Reicha: wind quintets. Cherubini: the 2 Requiem masses, Mass in D minor, overture to Médée. Méhul: the symphonies, overtures (the one for Stratonice is a winner). Hummel: the piano concertos op. 85 and 89, the piano trios. Vorísek: symphony, piano sonata, rhapsodies. Clementi: Gradus ad Parnassum. Spontini: La Vestale.

(This just for starting! ;))

I think in discovering hHummel, people will discover a composer who is half way between Mozart and Chopin.

Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 19, 2007, 11:24:10 AM
I think in discovering hHummel, people will discover a composer who is half way between Mozart and Chopin.

I think exactly as you. He's the link between both.

Quote from: Gabriel on August 19, 2007, 01:12:34 PM
I think exactly as you. He's the link between both.

that being said, i really enjoyed his works, for the same reasons that i enjoyed Mozart and Chopin; plenty of nice melodies to go around and a touch of virtuosity that you will find distinctly Hummel.

Can't really agree or disagree about the Mozart - Chopin connection because I haven't really discovered Chopin yet   :-[

But I discovered Hummel long ago and have nearly his complete recorded works. I think 2 things about him: he is a bridge between classical and romantic (he was Mozart's student after all, but his later (post 1805) music is distinctly part of the Age of the Virtuoso), and secondly, some of his lesser known works, like the potpourris and the capriccios are definitely worth exploring. The piano concertos are pretty much the beaten path here, if you get off that, you will find a large body of interesting and well written music. :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 19, 2007, 05:22:16 PM
Can't really agree or disagree about the Mozart - Chopin connection because I haven't really discovered Chopin yet   :-[

8)

i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 19, 2007, 05:24:30 PM
i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

I suspect you are quite correct. I have a lot of Chopin, I just haven't listened to it more than casually. Seems strange when I think about it that I know Hummel a lot better than I know Chopin... ::)   :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on August 19, 2007, 05:32:27 PM
I suspect you are quite correct. I have a lot of Chopin, I just haven't listened to it more than casually. Seems strange when I think about it that I know Hummel a lot better than I know Chopin... ::)   :)

8)

i am not expert of both composers, i listen to their music from time to time, i think it was that radio program by BBC that got me interested about Hummel's music, and taught me a great deal too.

BTW, it's not pronounced like "hummer", the u is a short oo, a little similar to the u like in "pull".

Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 19, 2007, 05:24:30 PM
i think you should start by listening to Chopin's first piano concerto, the "evidences" are all in there.

"Evidences"...  ;D Try the piano concertos, indeed. You can feel Hummel's shadow over them, even if you can also notice Chopin's distinctive sound.

What do you think about Hummel's string quartets, Gurn?

Poor Hummel, pushed aside by the big name composers, and now not a post here for over one year...

Anyways, I just "discovered" the Hummel Piano Preludes, downloaded for a small fee from EveryNote. (The local university library didn't have them, nor did it seem one could get them for free.)

The interest here was comparing them to Chopin's Preludes, and there is surely a lot of correlation between the ultra short miniatures of Hummel (most of them are about 8 bars) and Chopin's harmonies, figurations, chromaticisms, etc.

Many, if not most of them though, are more like sketches without any real development. I also downloaded his b minor concerto to compare with a recording on "Fabri Editions". In short, meaning with my limited knowledge of Hummel's music (although I plan to listen to more), I find so far there are good ideas but not necessarily consistency in developing them. The abovementioned concerto has a rather dull beginning but there are interesting passages later on. This is really not the case with Chopin's piano concertos and I imagine, the reason, Chopin's prevailed.

ZB

I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 10, 2009, 07:03:14 AM
I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin.

No, you don't see it, do you?

Ho shut it, you guys are starting to sound like a broken record. Have you actually listened to anything by John Field?

Just checked Gurn's 'old thread' (back to 2004) and the beginning of this newer thread and was amazed that I had added just a couple Hummel CDs in the last few years - guess too many composers to contemplate!  :D

But, a new addition (likely posted in the 'listening thread' when purchased) is the one below:  Piano Quintets by Hummel, Dussek, & Onslow w/ the Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet; I'm usually not one to 'mix' composers in this fashion, but just an enjoyable recordings overall - excellent Fanfare Review (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Riko-Fuduka/Performer/152854-2) reprinted @ Arkiv Music -  :)


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FYq9zgiSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 10, 2009, 07:03:14 AM
I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

If you have the 24 Preludes by Hummel in front of you, unless Chopin never saw them, the similarities must be purely coincidental. But having just listened to Hummel's Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in B minor, Op. 89, I can't help thinking that the problem lies in being in the cusp of Classic and Romantic.

Likewise, CPE Bach and his contemporaries were breaking out of the Baroque but not sure of where they were going. So their compositions are not the most successful as exemplars of the Classical style. While this concerto is an interesting work, has beautiful moments, especially the charming last movement, it suffers from the four-squareness mindset of the Classical period, but not ready for the form following function of the Romantic period. I also got the same impression from the 8 bar mold of most of Hummel's Preludes.

Chopin's continuous melody, more like extended improvisations for the pianist in his F minor concerto, not only looks forward to the latter part of the 19th century, but also reveals his own tutelage in the spun-out lines of the Baroque, notably the music of Bach.

ZB

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 10, 2009, 07:03:14 AM
I don't see the slightest influence of Hummel over Chopin. John Field on the other end...

I see the influence of both over Chopin, and quite clearly in the two piano concertos.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 10, 2009, 10:33:15 AM
...it suffers from the four-squareness mindset of the Classical period, but not ready for the form following function of the Romantic period. I also got the same impression from the 8 bar mold of most of Hummel's Preludes.

"Suffers" is a quite pejorative expression. The 8 bars were, as it's very well known, a common length for the period; but it was the language of that era. Exceptions? Yes, there are, even among composers of the classical period. And yes, he uses sonata form, concerto form, ternary structures for minuets. After all, he was a classical. How could I judge Rembrandt by the standards of Picasso, or viceversa?

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 10, 2009, 10:33:15 AM
Likewise, CPE Bach and his contemporaries were breaking out of the Baroque but not sure of where they were going. So their compositions are not the most successful as exemplars of the Classical style.

This is oversimplifying. Music doesn't "break" from one style for going to another; it evolves progressively. CPE Bach was as sure of what he was doing as Haydn when he wrote a symphony with 6 movements, as sure as was Mozart while writing the long final scenes for his late operas, as Beethoven when he wrote An die ferne Geliebte. CPE Bach, as "classical", is often closer in style to a "baroque" composer as his father, than to Beethoven, Rejcha or Hummel, who were also "classical".

Quote from: Gabriel on February 10, 2009, 12:06:41 PM
I see the influence of both over Chopin, and quite clearly in the two piano concertos.

Forget the piano concertos. They are not typical of Chopin. This, on the other end, is:

http://rapidshare.com/files/196507670/Nocturne_No.02_in_c.rar.html

Quote from: Gabriel on February 10, 2009, 12:06:41 PM
I see the influence of both over Chopin, and quite clearly in the two piano concertos.

"Suffers" is a quite pejorative expression. The 8 bars were, as it's very well known, a common length for the period; but it was the language of that era. Exceptions? Yes, there are, even among composers of the classical period. And yes, he uses sonata form, concerto form, ternary structures for minuets. After all, he was a classical. How could I judge Rembrandt by the standards of Picasso, or viceversa?

This is oversimplifying. Music doesn't "break" from one style for going to another; it evolves progressively. CPE Bach was as sure of what he was doing as Haydn when he wrote a symphony with 6 movements, as sure as was Mozart while writing the long final scenes for his late operas, as Beethoven when he wrote An die ferne Geliebte. CPE Bach, as "classical", is often closer in style to a "baroque" composer as his father, than to Beethoven, Rejcha or Hummel, who were also "classical".

All I can say is have a look at Hummel's preludes for an example. They have some good ideas but most of them stop abruptly right before the end of the 8th bar as if to say, "time to finish". CPE Bach may have been sure of himself, but I'm not sure of that. A lot of his music is boring and repetitive.  The kind of modular development of themes that fit the sonata form so well had to wait for Mozart and Beethoven. Academic forms carried over from the 18th century were still useful in the 19th century and even successful. But the more typical Romantic compositions were idiosyncratic--Ballades, Fantasies, Impromptus, Tone Poems, etc. Liszt had the courage to break out of the Sonata mold and invent one according to the needs of the music. I just had the impression that some of Hummel's chromaticisms were stuck in shoes too tight for them.

ZB

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 10, 2009, 01:39:35 PM
Forget the piano concertos. They are not typical of Chopin.

"Typical" when, you mean? In that case, you should discard (for instance) Beethoven's first and second symphonies for an analysis of his music. Chopin's piano concertos are "typical" of Chopin composing around 1830. Beethoven's first symphony is "typical" of Beethoven composing around 1800.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 10, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
All I can say is have a look at Hummel's preludes for an example. They have some good ideas but most of them stop abruptly right before the end of the 8th bar as if to say, "time to finish".

I can't make any comment at all about this example, because I don't know any Hummel preludes. What is the opus number? But I find hard to adjust your judgement to the really excellent major works by Hummel that I know.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 10, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
CPE Bach may have been sure of himself, but I'm not sure of that. A lot of his music is boring and repetitive.  The kind of modular development of themes that fit the sonata form so well had to wait for Mozart and Beethoven.

Again, you are asking from CPE Bach characteristics that were to be developed later. And you should consider that Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven needed the music of early classical composers to build the structures that you are suggesting. The history of music, to my knowledge, has never been a history of explosions, but one of progression.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 10, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
Liszt had the courage to break out of the Sonata mold and invent one according to the needs of the music. I just had the impression that some of Hummel's chromaticisms were stuck in shoes too tight for them.

As well as classicals had the courage to develop sonata form in so many different ways. Sonata form is not an absurdly rigid pattern: you can make wonders within. And sincerely, I don't see why chromaticism would be related per se with the way musical ideas are organized in a work. I can perfectly conceive very chromatic music contained in a very strict sonata form.

Hummel's Preludes are Op. 67.

Now, this train of thought for me started with an investigation of Chopin's Preludes for a class. I was interested in searching possible influences and found there were other composers in the early 1800's who wrote Preludes for all keys.

Now, after a bit of study, this is personal opinion, so I am not making any pronouncements, I feel there is a really good reason why Chopin's Preludes have been dutifully played and studied for about 170 years and the others were considered as historically interesting at the most. Somehow with discussions like these, I am reminded of the recent attempts of reviving the rather pretentious music of Salieri. It may have had some use and value then, but doubtful anyone would want to expend much effort in performing it in the 21st century, unless to trot out historical works not yet recorded or lately performed.

Getting back to Chopin vs. Hummel Preludes, most of the latter end in insipid arpeggios no matter what the musical material is. Chopin, like a true poet, is economical in his use of material and textures, like his mentor Bach. Chopin's 24 are cyclical. They can be presented as a whole work. Chopin brings out the peculiar color of each key. (There is a bit of this in the Hummel Preludes.)

Where there is a need for expansion or development, Chopin doesn't stop at an 8 bar phrase. When he says enough, as in the A Major and C minor preludes, that's it. Also with regard to acoustics and musical range, Chopin stays in the frame he created. So sometimes almost the whole keyboard is used as in the D minor, or a lesser range. I don't know whether this was instinctive or purposeful, but I think it is the latter.

All in all, Chopin had a much better, more developed musical mind. His opus would take a lifetime to learn and master. Therefore, a person like me with limited time would not even bother to play nice, perhaps experimental works by composers from a former era that can for the most past claim historical interest, in other words, like a lesser prophet, to give way to the greater one.

And this is MY OWN OPINION.

ZB

It is very good that you have your own opinion, ZB. I cannot judge the Hummel preludes, for I don't know them. If you find Chopin's more complex and more musical, I guess you have good reasons to do so.

What I do not share with you, is to judge the capabilities of a musician based on a couple of works, one of them (op. 67) being probably a minor composition. If I compared Mozart's La Finta Semplice and Cimarosa's Matrimonio Segreto, and concluded that Mozart was inferior to Cimarosa as a composer, I would be mistaken.

The only thing I can add is that among Hummel's music there is - in my humble opinion - some of the finest jewels in the classical period and that you wouldn't lose anything by knowing them. I tell you this knowing of course Chopin's music: I regard him as one of the greatest composers in history.

Quote from: Gabriel on February 11, 2009, 08:44:49 AM
What I do not share with you, is to judge the capabilities of a musician based on a couple of works, one of them (op. 67) being probably a minor composition. If I compared Mozart's La Finta Semplice and Cimarosa's Matrimonio Segreto, and concluded that Mozart was inferior to Cimarosa as a composer, I would be mistaken.

I have a complete edition of Hummel's piano sonatas and concertos as well as a plethora of his chamber works. Sorry, but compared to Chopin, he is a non-entity. The fact he composed music on a virtuoso level only makes him marginally better then your average high classical composer.

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 11, 2009, 09:25:18 AM
I have a complete edition of Hummel's piano sonatas and concertos as well as a plethora of his chamber works. Sorry, but compared to Chopin, he is a non-entity. The fact he composed music on a virtuoso level only makes him marginally better then your average high classical composer.

Boo hoo, it is so sad when the final arbiter of who is a genius and who is not declares your favorite composer a non-entity.   :'(

I said compared to Chopin.

Chopin is probably a greater composer, yes.

But that doesn't mean that Hummel is a non-entity. Strong words, indeed. Perhaps (and just perhaps) a highly instructed composer could disqualify a colleague in those terms, on the risk of being unpolite, and most probably in the case of Hummel, also wrong. At least, both Haydn, who had a great esteem on Hummel's musicianship, and Schubert, who intended to dedicate his last 3 piano sonatas to Hummel before his death prevented their publication, had probably a very different perception on such a "non-entity".

It's quite impressive that you have a "plethora" of Hummel's chamber works: first, considering that you disregard so strongly his production, and second, knowing that recordings of his chamber music are particularly difficult to find. I really salute your considerable effort.

I will finishing this post by stating that Hummel is probably not Beethoven, nor Chopin. And yet, he was able to produce exquisite music which I have been delighted to discover.

Quote from: Gabriel on February 11, 2009, 08:44:49 AM
It is very good that you have your own opinion, ZB. I cannot judge the Hummel preludes, for I don't know them. If you find Chopin's more complex and more musical, I guess you have good reasons to do so.

What I do not share with you, is to judge the capabilities of a musician based on a couple of works, one of them (op. 67) being probably a minor composition. If I compared Mozart's La Finta Semplice and Cimarosa's Matrimonio Segreto, and concluded that Mozart was inferior to Cimarosa as a composer, I would be mistaken.

The only thing I can add is that among Hummel's music there is - in my humble opinion - some of the finest jewels in the classical period and that you wouldn't lose anything by knowing them. I tell you this knowing of course Chopin's music: I regard him as one of the greatest composers in history.

I'm not so sure I would not recognize Mozart in any of his minor works, although he didn't have any bad hits, even from adolescence. As for opinion, it is somewhat informed as I have been a practicing musician and teacher for quite a while. So maybe I can recognize quality.

According to the 6 page list of Hummel's works, Op. 67 is just about in the middle. Looking over the score of the B minor PC, which is supposed to be a major work of his, I find quite a bit of triteness and phrases that turn on themselves.

Certain formulas in Classical music made it possible for what is termed doggerel in poetry. A prescribed number of syllables and rhymes is not a guarantee of content. At least Haydn and Mozart personalized the forms they wrote.

In the film "Amadeus", Salieri is fishing for compliments for his new grandiose opera, and the best, most honest answer Mozart could give him was "Oh it was pure Salieri!!" As for Schubert and his dedication, Hummel may have been a nice person (like Salieri) and a better performer than composer. Schubert, I am sure, would have been able to recognize doggerel from real poetic flights of inspiration.

ZB

What is so great about something like this?

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
I'm not so sure I would not recognize Mozart in any of his minor works, although he didn't have any bad hits, even from adolescence.

In Mozart's works written before 1780 there is a lot of music that is not "first rate", while at the same time not being "a bad hit".

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
According to the 6 page list of Hummel's works, Op. 67 is just about in the middle. Looking over the score of the B minor PC, which is supposed to be a major work of his, I find quite a bit of triteness and phrases that turn on themselves.

Again, it is formidable that you have an opinion on two specific compositions.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
Certain formulas in Classical music made it possible for what is termed doggerel in poetry. A prescribed number of syllables and rhymes is not a guarantee of content. At least Haydn and Mozart personalized the forms they wrote.

If you think that Hummel's music is a kind of "copy and paste", I sincerely find that you are mistaken. But what from my point of view is a loss of yours, is time saved for you.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
As for Schubert and his dedication, Hummel may have been a nice person (like Salieri) and a better performer than composer. Schubert, I am sure, would have been able to recognize doggerel from real poetic flights of inspiration.

And yet, Schubert dedicated some variations to Beethoven. Did Schubert think with that Beethoven composed also "doggerel"? I doubt so. As far as I know, Schubert was not precisely eager to make free compliments to other musicians.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
What is so great about something like this?

I am not going to judge a composer for a couple of bars, whether I like his music or not.

J.N. Hummel (1778-1837)
Concerto for Bassoon in F Major
S 63, WoO 23
(1st Movement) c. 1810

http://www.mediafire.com/?m4chtmzgyoy


Article by J. Sachs in 'Grove' (Expanded Edition)

Hummel was known as a prodigy; he was certainly described as having been more advanced at three than most children twice his age. At four he could read music, at five play the violin and at six the piano. When he was eight, the family moved to Vienna, where his father Johannes, a string player and conductor, became music director of the Theater auf der Wieden, a post that was to give his son useful theatrical experience.

Hummel made rapid progress as a pianist, allegedly becoming a pupil of Mozart soon after going to Vienna. According to his father, the boy so impressed Mozart  he taught him free of charge; as was often the arrangement at the time, Hummel lived with the Mozarts. He and Mozart apparently became close friends, frequently going about Vienna together. Hummel's first public performance is said to have been at a concert under Mozart's direction in 1787, but the evidence about this period in his life is contradictory. In 1788 Mozart had to discontinue the lessons and recommended that the boy make himself known to the musical world. Accordingly, father and son embarked on a tour that was to last four years. After a stop in Prague, where they met Dussek and Mašek, they went on to Dresden. There, on 10 March 1789, Hummel played a piano concerto, Mozart's variations on 'Lison dormait' and a set of original variations that must have been one of his earliest compositions. His father later claimed, incorrectly, that Mozart was in the audience and exclaimed that the boy would become as a pianist what Raphael was to art (Mozart did in fact hear Hummel play at a concert in Berlin some ten weeks later). At any event, this beginning was auspicious enough to encourage the boy and his father to undertake a long series of appearances at Berlin, Magdeburg, Göttingen, Brunswick, Kassel, Weissenstein (where Hummel caught smallpox), Hanover, Celle, Hamburg, Kiel, Rensburg, Flensburg, Lübeck, Schleswig and Copenhagen, and on an island at Odense. These concerts were generally speculative ventures, and while Johannes Hummel's diary relates that some were badly attended, the overall results must have been satisfactory.

In spring 1790 the two arrived in Edinburgh, where they made a tremendous impression and acquired enough pupils (both were teaching) to stabilize their finances and allow the boy to study English. After three months they headed south, giving concerts in Durham and Cambridge and arriving in London that autumn. Hummel's first verifiable concert there did not take place until 5 May 1792, at the Hanover Square Rooms, when he played an unidentified Mozart concerto and a 'new sonata' of his own. (The existence of a native prodigy, F.L. Hummell, tends to confuse information about this period.) William Gardiner, a manufacturer with a great interest in music, wrote many years later that Hummel 'as a youth ... was the most surprising performer that had ever visited [England], except the young Mozart' (fig.1). The interest he aroused is attested to by the subscription list for his op.2, which includes 92 names from Vienna and 159 from London.

The Hummels originally intended to follow their two years in London with a tour of France or Spain, but, deterred by the revolutionary turmoil, they embarked, some time in autumn 1792, for the Netherlands. For two months Johann Nepomuk performed every Sunday at the Prince of Orange's palace at The Hague, until the advancing French troops forced them on to Amsterdam, Cologne, Bonn, Mainz, Frankfurt and through Bavaria to Linz, where they rejoined Frau Hummel. By early in 1793 the family was back in Vienna.

Hummel's next decade was largely one of study, composition and teaching, with only rare public performances. From Albrechtsberger he learnt counterpoint, and from Salieri, vocal composition, aesthetics and the philosophy of music. When Haydn, with whom Hummel had become acquainted in London, returned from his second trip there (1795), he gave him organ lessons, warning him, however, that too much organ playing would ruin his hands for the piano. Hummel spent these years in great financial insecurity, giving nine or ten lessons a day, composing until 4 a.m., and building a large circle of devoted followers. The most momentous event of the period was Beethoven's emergence in Vienna, which nearly destroyed Hummel's self-confidence. Yet despite constant partisan warfare among their disciples, the two began a long, but stormy, friendship.

In 1803 Haydn recommended Hummel for the post of Hofkapellmeister at Stuttgart, but he was passed over for the Weimar Kapellmeister Johann Friedrich Kranz. He was also offered a job by the director of the Vienna court theatre, but on 1 April 1804 signed a contract as Konzertmeister to Prince Nikolaus Esterházy at Eisenstadt (this post was in effect that of Kapellmeister, although Haydn continued to hold the title). The suggestion that he was engaged because of the prince's interest in sacred music has been refuted on the grounds that Hummel had no previous experience in that field and almost none as an orchestral composer. He appears rather to have been selected partly because of his long connection with Vienna's theatres. Nevertheless, he had to serve the Esterházys' chapel; so far as is known, all his sacred compositions, as well as many of his dramatic ones, were written while he held this post.

Hummel received a salary of 1200 florins and lodging at Eisenstadt. In addition to composing and conducting the chapel, which had about 100 members, his duties included teaching the choirboys the piano, violin and cello and assembling a Haydn archive. This last task gave rise to an accusation that he had sold the publication rights to 42 Haydn canons particularly treasured by the prince. This charge, although later refuted, was only one source of animosity, since Hummel, as successor to the much loved Haydn, was inevitably resented by some. He also became increasingly engrossed in composing music for Vienna. In addition to performances of sacred and dramatic works there, he had, through his father, director of the Apollosaal, an outlet for annual sets of minuets and German dances. In short, he seemed not to be giving the Esterházy court the exclusive service it desired. At Christmas 1808 he was dismissed, but then re-engaged, possibly after Haydn's intervention; in May 1811 his contract was finally terminated. These years had given him valuable experience in sacred and dramatic music, in handling an orchestra and opera house and administering the affairs of a major musical establishment. The closeness of Vienna had also given him the opportunity to secure a lasting foothold in that crucial musical centre.

After returning to Vienna in 1811, Hummel did not appear publicly as a pianist, but was very active as a composer of piano, chamber and dramatic works. In 1813 he married the well-known singer Elisabeth Röckel, by whom he had two sons, Eduard, a pianist, and Karl, a painter. During these years his relations with Beethoven fluctuated. Friction between the two had developed as early as 1807, after a performance of Beethoven's C major Mass at which Hummel was thought to have tacitly agreed with Prince Nikolaus's adverse criticism; and Beethoven's supposed interest in Elisabeth Röckel may also have stood between them after the marriage. Nevertheless contact was not broken; in 1814 Hummel was percussionist in a performance of the Battle Symphony conducted by Beethoven, and a subsequent note from Beethoven shows that their friendship survived the event. But Hummel's arrangement of the overture to Fidelio (piano, four hands) did not satisfy Beethoven, who tore it up and gave the job of completing a piano score to Moscheles. The stylistic gap between Vienna's two idols was now very wide.

About 1814 Elisabeth Hummel persuaded her husband to appear again as a pianist. Her sense of timing was excellent: at the many concerts and parties for the Congress of Vienna, Hummel was a sensation, playing for noblemen and bureaucrats, many of whom functioned peripherally as the equivalent of international booking agents for entertainers. A tour of Germany in spring 1816 gave him renewed confidence and made him a celebrity. But once again financial stability eluded him. Having a family to support, he resolved to seek a secure and permanent post. He appeared to reach his goal late that year as Hofkapellmeister in Stuttgart, but despite the splendid chapel and excellent orchestra, the position was unsatisfactory. He had no time for composing; touring necessitated a constant battle for permission to travel. He considered taste in Stuttgart abysmally low and stifling, and intrigues at the Opera, whose aristocratic management did not like the coarse Hummel, made life unpleasant. In November 1818 he resigned to become grand-ducal Kapellmeister at Weimar. The Weimar contract, dated 5 January 1819, was a decided improvement on the Stuttgart one: it included a three-month annual leave, which could be taken in the spring, the height of the European concert season. Furthermore, the Catholic Hummel was relieved of the direction of sacred music for this Protestant court.

The Weimar years were pleasant and productive. Hummel settled into a thoroughly bourgeois existence, complete with house and garden. Through Goethe he met the leading figures of the intellectual world and soon became one of Weimar's tourist attractions: without seeing Goethe and hearing Hummel play, no visit to the town was complete. His primary job was to conduct at the court theatre. Here his contract was again favourable, divesting him of responsibility for 'trivial' operas and granting him full control over tempos, an object of constant dispute. The repertory was varied, including works by the most important composers of the past and, over the years, newer operas by Rossini, Auber, Meyerbeer, Halévy, Spohr and Bellini. The productions benefited considerably from Hummel's tours, during which he met and hired talented foreign singers. Probably as a result of his success with the opera company, he was a candidate for the directorship of the German opera in Dresden vacated by Weber's death in 1826. His other responsibilites at Weimar were diverse. He initiated and conducted at annual pension-fund concerts, celebrations, special performances in honour of the ducal family and local luminaries like Goethe, concerts by visiting artists such as Paganini (1829) and private parties (his orchestra was not large – strings 5.5.2.2.2, and double wind).

With ample time to teach privately and compose, Hummel made the 1820s one of his most productive periods. In addition to music for his tours, he wrote cantatas for the court and Masonic lodge, and numerous small works for publishers, including arrangements of overtures, symphonies and concertos for London publishers and Scottish songs for George Thomson of Edinburgh. Yet nothing occupied his time and imagination so fully as writing a comprehensive, multi-volume treatise on piano playing, a project so time-consuming that he eventually abandoned a commission from the Paris Opéra whose libretto in any case seems to have lost its fascination.

The 1820s were also busy for Hummel as a touring performer. He travelled as far afield as Russia (where he met John Field in 1822) and Poland (where he met Chopin in 1828), France and the Netherlands. In 1827 the Hummels and his pupil Ferdinand Hiller hastily made their way to Vienna to visit the dying Beethoven. Their meeting saw a final reconciliation; Hummel was a pallbearer at the funeral, and at the memorial concert, following Beethoven's wishes, he improvised on themes from the dead composer's works, most movingly on the Prisoners' Chorus from Fidelio. During this stay Hummel also met Schubert and gave him great pleasure on one occasion by improvising on Der blinde Knabe. Schubert dedicated his last three piano sonatas to Hummel, presumably hoping he would perform them, but because they were not published until after the death of both men, the publisher changed the dedication to Schumann.

Cancellation of his annual leave in 1829 gave Hummel six months in 1830 for a major trip to Paris and his first visit to London for nearly 40 years. This tour was the climax of his career, since the later stays in London in 1831 and 1833 showed his reputation already on the decline. The first of these two was virtually ruined by competition from Paganini, while in the second Hummel functioned largely as director of the German opera season, which was not overwhelmingly successful. An equally lukewarm visit to Vienna in 1834 was his last tour. In the three remaining years of his life, illness reduced his activity to almost nothing. His death was regarded as the passing of an era and was appropriately marked in Vienna by a performance of Mozart's Requiem.

Despite his great success, Hummel seems to have remained fundamentally a warm and simple person. Hiller described life in the Weimar household as regular and peaceful. Hummel believed in hard work, with intensive, but not excessive, daily practising, and daily periods of composition to nourish the skills and spirit. His main recreations were gardening and taking walks. A lover of conversation, he spoke a good German that retained a hint of his Viennese background. According to Hiller, he was very articulate, but disliked extra-curricular discussions of music because they made one stale. Grillparzer, who visited him in 1826, was amused by his command of Viennese dialect, which, in contrast to the conversation of the Weimar intellectuals, sounded like the worst German he had ever heard. Hummel's intermittent joviality seemed in keeping with his corpulence; Rellstab described his face as so arch-bourgeois that one hardly expected to find an artist behind it (fig.2). This pleasant picture was frequently spoilt, however, by the suggestion of excessive financial alertness. While there is doubtless truth in some allegations, it must be considered that they were made at a time of sensitivity created by Beethoven's and Mozart's poverty. It is beyond dispute that Hummel had an excellent business sense. He was ordinarily on good terms with his publishers C.F. Peters and Tobias Haslinger, who were helpful in managing his varied international transactions, and also kept watch on his many investments. It was Hummel who systematized multi-national publishing, led the composers' fight for uniform copyright laws in Germany and Austria, and showed composers that they could exploit the prevailing chaos in the music publishing world to their own advantage. He was always sensitive to the idea of success: on one occasion a harsh review in the Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung so infuriated him that he threatened to organize a boycott of it. And financial success was indeed his. Estimates of his estate vary, but it was by any reckoning very large – some 100,000 thalers (£20,000) and hundreds of rings, snuff boxes and other golden and bejewelled artefacts. He was a member of the Institut de France, the Société des Enfants d'Apollon, the Légion d'Honneur, the Société de Musique of Geneva, the Netherlands Society for the Advancement of Music, the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde in Vienna, the Philharmonic Society of London (as one of its earliest honorary members) and the Weimar Order of the White Falcon.


Since Hummel was one of Europe's most famous pianists, the brevity of his concert career may be surprising. Apart from his years as a prodigy and the short period before the appointment to Stuttgart, it was concentrated in the 1820s and early 1830s. His playing was the subject of many an enthusiastic review in which, even allowing for the usual exaggeration and self-interest of the writers (especially in journals owned by Hummel's publishers), certain features remain constant: his clarity, neatness, evenness, superb tone and delicacy, as well as an extraordinary quality of relaxation and the ability to create the illusion of speed without taking too rapid tempos. Adverse reviews – for example, by Beethoven's admirers – accused him of lacking warmth and passion. This criticism, however, must be evaluated in the light of Hummel's preference for the light-toned Viennese piano, whose evenness and transparency perfectly suited his aesthetic. Hiller warned against being misled by the absence of Lisztian passion in Hummel's playing, because, like most virtuosos at that time, he rarely performed the music of other composers and was not interested in mastering their styles. The restrained character of Hummel's classicism did not preclude audience-rousing qualities: on one occasion an audience stood on their seats to see his double trills better.

Hummel's concert programmes followed the conventions of the day: his own works – chamber music and concertos – and an improvisation were the centrepieces, while opera excerpts and, sometimes, music by local composers filled out the evening. His companions in the chamber works and the singers were the leading performers of the day; however, the orchestras he encountered on his tours were of mixed quality, and on some occasions he was forced to play his concertos with only a rudimentary accompaniment. Hummel's activity as a conductor increased in the 1820s, and it was in this sphere that he performed the music of other composers. The few surviving comments on his conducting are very general: some complain of coldness, others praise his fiery nature; all commend his precision and his ability to instil great security into an orchestra.

Whereas accounts of Hummel's interpretations often reflect the observers' prejudices, comments on his improvising show almost unanimous enthusiasm. More at ease improvising than playing formal compositions, he particularly excelled at creating four- or five-part fugal variations. The typical improvisation included a fantasy-like introduction, themes from popular operas or from the evening's concert or party and a series of free variations, sometimes ending with a paraphrase of the finale of an opera such as Don Giovanni. In his autobiography Spohr described such an improvisation following a party for the Congress of Vienna: Hummel wove the themes of the concert into contrapuntal variations, a fugue and a bravura finale, all in waltz time to permit the last stragglers to dance.

For many years Hummel was one of the most important, and expensive, teachers in Germany. His pupils included many of the most notable musicians of the next generation: Hiller, Mendelssohn (briefly), Karl Eduard Hartknoch, Adolf Henselt, Karl Georg Mangold, Sigismond Thalberg and Giuseppe Unia. Schumann – who in the event did not study with Hummel – for several years considered taking lessons with him, feeling he should be able to list his name as an instructor, even though he considered him ten years behind the times. According to Hiller, Hummel was primarily concerned that the main voice sing, that the texture be clear and that fingering be secure. He used only his own compositions for teaching, but his pupils frequently performed the works of others. Although Hummel usually taught only the piano, Hiller found him even more gifted as a composition teacher. His teachings are summarized in his piano method, the Ausführlich theoretisch-practische Anweisung zum Piano-forte Spiel. This three-volume work, which is said to have sold thousands of copies within days of its publication in 1828, is one of the most important sources of information about the late Viennese style of performing and, in particular, ornamentation. A curious amalgam of expert knowledge and pedantry, it embraces such diverse topics as fingering exercises, improvisation, and large and small semitones. Although some of the information about ornaments seems to reflect Hummel's personal style more than the common practice, it nevertheless gives an invaluable insight into the aesthetics of his generation. Its educational intent is clearly far above that of the usual commercialized instruction books so characteristic of the 19th century, for whereas dexterity was the sole aim of most manuals, Hummel, stressing musicianship, placed the performance of Bach's music as the highest goal.

As a composer Hummel stands on the borderline between epochs. For more than a century his reputation has been that of a typical 19th-century virtuoso specializing in piano music. This view of him, however, is grossly incorrect. When his little-known unpublished works and the bulk of his printed ones are placed beside his better-known compositions, it becomes clear that his work embraced virtually all the genres and performing media common at the turn of the century: operas, Singspiele, symphonic masses and other sacred works, occasional pieces, chamber music, songs and, of course, concertos and solo piano music, as well as many arrangements. Only the symphony is conspicuously absent (and this fact alone testifies to his deeply felt rivalry with Beethoven). He was, furthermore, a curious combination of the old composer-craftsman and the new composer-entrepreneur. Enormous quantities of music were written as part of his employment, but he was also a freelance who rarely lacked commissions and who could not satisfy all the demands of his publishers. His extraordinary ability to respond to the needs of the musical market-place is illustrated by his relationship with George Thomson, the Edinburgh folksong collector. The arrangements done by Beethoven for Thomson were too difficult and did not sell, but those by Hummel were just right. Yet Hummel, like Beethoven, was a composer whose music normally demanded the highest virtuosity.

Stylistically, Hummel's music is among the finest of the last years of Classicism, with basically homophonic textures, well-spun, ornate italianate melodies, and virtuoso embroidery supported by modernized Alberti accompaniments. His style, which is most modern in works employing the piano, followed a straight path of development throughout his lifetime, although after his return to the concert stage in 1814 his compositions expanded considerably in expressive range, harmonic and melodic variety, and brilliance. Despite these proto-Romantic elements, however, this new style is still clearly Classical in essence, and the consistency of mood within large sections is quite the opposite of the emotional contrasts exploited by the younger generation. Clarity of transitions between phrases and between sections is still of primary importance, and the relatively slow harmonic rhythm that generally prevails ensures that the listener is not swept away by the harmonic flux, as the young Romantics so often seem to have intended. The presence in his manuscripts of such formulae as figured bass indications suggests that Hummel conceived of music as the decoration of harmonic progressions. This seemingly archaic procedure did not, however, preclude a modern and imaginative harmonic vocabulary. Particularly after 1814, he was very fond of 3rd-relationships, secondary and tertiary dominants, and chromatic passing notes. (Good examples of these appear in the Piano Trio op.83 and the Sonata op.81.)

In spite of his orientation towards harmonically conceived structures, Hummel excelled in melodic writing, particularly in his mature works, where the lines became less predictable and symmetrical, and the finely wrought ornamentation and new harmonic variety resulted in long phrases that stand at the highest level of the era (Beethoven excepted). Because his melodies are supported by a thoroughly accompanimental texture, and because the accompaniment is so rarely placed anywhere but below the melody, his music can easily be described as a pianist would experience it physically – 'right-handed'. But in fact, because of his Viennese piano's clarity of sound (which influenced all his music), the effect produced by his note-blackened pages was delicate and transparent, permitting extensive counterpoint even in virtuoso sections. This counterpoint is of two types, one strictly decorative (such as the multi-level filigree prominent in the later compositions, which became an important part of Schumann's repertory of pianistic techniques), the other more truly structural (as in the inevitable fugato that rescues so many flagging development sections).

Like so many composers of his generation, Hummel's undoing often came in the construction of large musical units. Because of this, his variation sets are frequently the most successful of his longer works in this regard, even when the ideas are weak. In 'sonata-allegro' movements and in rondos – Hummel's two favourite large forms – one often has the impression that the structure is a mosaic of melodies and textures. (There is actually a strong resemblance to the methods of Domenico Scarlatti, given the difference in style and scope.) While the charm of Hummel's ideas generally lies in their freely unfolding melodiousness, this very gift for melodic writing was treacherous. Unlike Beethoven's ideas, which could organically generate structures of monumental proportions as they gradually revealed their potential, Hummel's, being long and self-contained, offered little scope for true development and, because of their diffuseness, tended to generate movements that were excessively long. This was particularly true in chamber music, where the sympathetic Hummel often further weakened the overall shape by giving each player a turn at the long melodies. He attempted to overcome this weakness by contrasting songlike and virtuoso passages, but the continual domination of the topmost part often caused success to elude him. He did, however, achieve a lyricism and brilliance that paralleled Rossini's accomplishments for the voice.

Even with his shortcomings, Hummel's generally superb craftsmanship made him one of the most important composers of the European mainstream. His studies with Mozart and his style – called classical even during his lifetime – made him an elder statesman of Viennese Classicism. When Classicism came to be regarded as old-fashioned, however, he began a rapid descent in public esteem. Suddenly he was an anachronism. His own virtuosity had helped to create a new class of spectator-audience that, far more than the old one of cultivated amateurs, demanded titillation by ever more spectacular virtuosity. As a teacher, too, he was considered passé: Czerny's simple exercises were far more accessible than Hummel's counterpoint; his use of the metronome to teach exactness of tempo was more readily grasped than Hummel's insistence on developing the impalpable quality of 'musicianship'. It is possible that Hummel's decline in productivity in his last years resulted not from his comfortable life at Weimar (as Liszt thought), but from his recognition that his time was over. There is perhaps a parallel to be found in Rossini.

Hummel's music reached the highest level accessible to one who lacks ultimate genius. Yet while his compositions have not fulfilled the promise of immortality, they and his style of performing had a lasting importance. As perhaps the finest and, in his time, the most renowned representative of late Classicism, he clearly linked the styles of Clementi and Mozart, in a line that bypassed Beethoven, with those of Schubert, Mendelssohn, Chopin, early Liszt and Schumann, some of whom came to rebel against the very man whose music did so much to form their own. Hummel's essential conservatism brought the Viennese style to its ultimate fruition and decay, for in completing the work of the 18th century he prepared the way for the violent reaction of his juniors. His final significance, however, depends not on the fame of those who followed him, but on his own position as the true representative of his age. Through Hummel, not Beethoven, may be seen the crucial phase in which the Classical style outlived its usefulness, as the old virtues of clarity, symmetry, elegance and 'learnedness' yielded to the new 'inspiration', emotionalism, commercialism and bombast

//

TTT

Quote from: Gabriel on February 12, 2009, 02:09:59 AM

Quote from: zbWhat is so great about something like this?

I am not going to judge a composer for a couple of bars, whether I like his music or not.

Well, and of course, zb is not judging the composer, but those few bars.

I think of Hummel as one of the non-famous composers who bridged the gap between the classical and romantic eras; this would include Spohr and Reicha.  For me, Hummel is the most rewarding of those composers.  His piano concertos include a couple of gems, the piano trios are wonderful, the piano sonatas very pleasing and I believe there's also a mandolin concerto that always lifts my spirits.

Comparing any of his music to Chopin's seems irrelevant to me.  For a non-entity, I'd say Hummel is doing quite well, as his music continues to be played centuries after his death. 

Quote from: Bulldog on June 03, 2009, 08:51:30 AM
. . . For me, Hummel is the most rewarding of those composers.  His piano concertos include a couple of gems . . . . 

I have heard one of these gems; very fine, indeed.

With great respect...it would be helpful if you could check in The Composers' Index to determine whether there is an existing thread on a particular composer and then add your post to that thread. This avoids confusion for people who may wish to add further comments.

Quote from: Dundonnell on June 03, 2009, 08:57:56 AM
With great respect...it would be helpful if you could check in The Composers' Index to determine whether there is an existing thread on a particular composer and then add your post to that thread. This avoids confusion for people who may wish to add further comments.

Yes Dundonnell,

I will do so and regret that I was unable to do this when I posted.

Best wishes

Robert

Quote from: robnewman on June 03, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
I will do so and regret that I was unable to do this when I posted.

Not that this materially alters your regrets, but you were certainly able to do this.  It isn't any question of ability.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2009, 08:39:56 AM
Well, and of course, zb is not judging the composer, but those few bars.

Mr. Fawlty, I can and will speak for myself!

See my previous post about what I think of Hummel in general. I downloaded some of his music and really can't stand ANY of it. Recently, I have had to survey some composers' works (won't go into detail) and the main problem with them was the idea that one can take a form like "sonata" or even "waltz" and fill it with notes, even though there is no organic unity, or what is termed a "raison d'etre".

Was it Clemenceau who said that "freedom of the press is the right to publish anything that is written, but not everything that is thought should be written down"?

Any filler that Beethoven used in some of his sonatas was a small percentage of his output but "composers" like Hummel (and Salieri, in my opinion) have mainly pompous filler instead of content. Hemingway said more or less the same about Gertrude Stein, that she didn't bother to edit her work.

But as I repeat, that is MY opinion...

ZB

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 03, 2009, 10:22:55 AM
Not that this materially alters your regrets, but you were certainly able to do this.  It isn't any question of ability.

Er, you're wrong. In fact, the search engine facility on the forum was not working for fully 10 minutes before I posted. I tried it repeatedly. And I've already said I am sorry to have posted when there is already a thread running on the subject. A fact which I have acted on in the last 5 minutes with Mendelssohn (as even you can surely see).

Tried civility recently ?
:)

Just in case, the following is a link to the Composer Index created by Lethe: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8566.msg210396/topicseen.html

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 03, 2009, 10:41:34 AM
Mr. Fawlty, I can and will speak for myself!

Eek!

Quote from: opus67 on June 03, 2009, 11:18:44 AM
Just in case, the following is a link to the Composer Index created by Lethe: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8566.msg210396/topicseen.html

Thanks Op.67 ! That's very useful.

Quote from: robnewman on June 03, 2009, 10:51:47 AM
Tried civility recently ?

Regularly, as you would know if you read my posts regularly.

In all events, I entertain certain doubts that many in the forum would appeal to you for any ruling on civility.

And, if you are honest, you would suffer much the same doubt.

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 03, 2009, 10:41:34 AM
I downloaded some of his music and really can't stand ANY of it.

But as I repeat, that is MY opinion...

The "pompous fillers" you describe in your posts do exist (I think of some of the piano concertos), but I wouldn't agree in my opinion in stating that all the music by Hummel has the same features. But I'm afraid he's quite irregular. As I stated before, in my opinion he composed some of the most beautiful works of the classical era, but you can find as well inconsistent works by him.

Quote from: robnewman on June 03, 2009, 11:29:42 AM
Thanks Op.67 ! That's very useful.

Opus - amazing what already is available in this forum on certain composers!  :D

I even posted a link to the 'old' forum on Hummel in that thread, which also had plenty of information!  :-\

Quote from: Gabriel on June 03, 2009, 12:19:55 PM
The "pompous fillers" you describe in your posts do exist (I think of some of the piano concertos), but I wouldn't agree in my opinion in stating that all the music by Hummel has the same features. But I'm afraid he's quite irregular. As I stated before, in my opinion he composed some of the most beautiful works of the classical era, but you can find as well inconsistent works by him.

I have a recording of one of his piano concertos. While there are some perhaps nice moments, there is really no consistency in joining up and/or relating the material to the rest of the piece. The problem here is form and content. Ideally, the content should define the form. When the forms become worn out as in poetry, new ones are developed. Otherwise, you can have rhyming doggerel ad infinitum.

While some composers in the Romantic period poured new wine into old bottles (those who still used 'sonata' forms), the same ones though wrote intermezzi, ballades, songs without words, fantasies , etc., and some even changed the original molds of sonata and concerto like Liszt. Beethoven himself was moving in different directions with his late piano sonatas and string quartets.

Music, if I may be so bold, is more about the how and less about the what. A two note theme, with the first repeated 3x as in Beethoven's 5th symphony is nothing without development. In fact, the latter is everything. A composer in the beginning of the 19th century who could not rise to the occasion and have the content define the form, instead use the latter for a catch-all for any ideas, failed formally. Here is where form is practically everything. And by the way, a sonata was a living entity in the Classic period, with so many variations by Haydn for instance.

If I hadn't been confronted with lately reviewing so-called modern sonatas, fugues, waltzes, even mazurkas, just because they have a certain rhythm, or two themes and the second modulates before the double bar, etc., the issue would not be so much in my face, that is, the necessity to define what actually makes good or bad music.

In fact, it might be worthwhile to have a discussion on the latter point.

ZB

Post amended in line with the earlier notification that the topic brought up can only be referred to in the specific designated thread on Mozart Fraud. Such discussion will not be spreading across the board into other threads.

Knight

A much underrated composer, in my opinion he is great.
His 3th piano concerto is astonishing.

Johann Nepomuk Hummel or Jan Nepomuk Hummel (November 14, 1778 – October 17, 1837) was an Austrian composer and virtuoso pianist. His music reflects the transition from the Classical to the Romantic musical era.

http://www.youtube.com/v/zboCrptAYIU

His piano concertos are very good. His piano sonatas and chamber music i found to be forced and labored, and not really to my taste. Haven't tried his religious music yet.

You've heard his piano trios and found them "forced"? This is some of the most sublime chamber music I've ever heard.

Quote from: Holden on April 23, 2010, 01:04:14 AM
You've heard his piano trios and found them "forced"? This is some of the most sublime chamber music I've ever heard.

I heard his piano quintet and some of the piano trios. Maybe i just listened to the wrong ones. Which of the trios would you recommend?

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 23, 2010, 05:57:48 AM
I heard his piano quintet and some of the piano trios. Maybe i just listened to the wrong ones. Which of the trios would you recommend?

This is available from Amazon. It is one of my desert island discs.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WDGA6703L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 23, 2010, 05:57:48 AM
I heard his piano quintet and some of the piano trios. Maybe i just listened to the wrong ones. Which of the trios would you recommend?

I find his best to be his last four - Op. 65, 83, 93 and 96.  As I posted a couple of years ago on this thread, I'm thrilled with a MDG 2-disc set performed by the Parnassus Trio that includes all the piano trios.

Quote from: Bulldog on April 23, 2010, 03:50:59 PM
I find his best to be his last four - Op. 65, 83, 93 and 96.  As I posted a couple of years ago on this thread, I'm thrilled with a MDG 2-disc set performed by the Parnassus Trio that includes all the piano trios. Re: Josquin

Well, I've owned the 2-CD set mentioned by Don for a while - if you cannot enjoy these performances, then may be this whole era of music is not to your liking?   :-\

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vcIu5PB4Qz4/SjoOr4FteEI/AAAAAAAABTg/UViq7DFYcyk/s320/Hummel_trio_parnassus_1.jpg)

I'll look into it. Thanks.

Any HIPPI recording availble of the piano trios?  :)

Because for music from that era, Beaux Arts et al. won't do. $:)  ;)

Q

Quote from: Que on April 23, 2010, 11:23:12 PM
Any HIPPI recording availble of the piano trios?  :)

Because for music from that era, Beaux Arts et al. won't do. $:)  ;)

Q

Look out! ;D

Quote from: Que on April 23, 2010, 11:23:12 PM
Because for music from that era, Beaux Arts et al. won't do. $:)  ;)

In my experience, the HIP movement hasn't been anywhere near as successful with classical music has it has been with the Baroque. Hummel was a contemporary of Beethoven. Modern instruments ought to be as suited to his music as they are for the latter.

Quote from: Que on April 23, 2010, 11:23:12 PM
Any HIPPI recording availble of the piano trios?  :)

Because for music from that era, Beaux Arts et al. won't do. $:)  ;)

Q

I have Staier, Sepec and Queyras doing #4 to wonderful effect. And Susan Alexander-Max, Standage & Banda doing 2 & 3. 

And for JdP, give the Borodins a try on Chandos. For you, just right. (hell, I even like 'em :o :o )

8)

The Parnassus Trio is also my favourite for Hummel's trios. I've purchased a HIP set played by Voces Intimae, but it is not as good as the Parnassus, Que.

Among the chamber music curiosities I've discovered recently, I can mention a trio for two violas and cello. It's far from being a masterwork, but amusing nonetheless. In the finale, Hummel plays with a figure that had another meaning in other phrases... in order to transform it unexpectedly into a short reference to Mozart's "Der Vogelfänger bin ich ja"!

Moving off HIP trios: I have a disc (from Brilliant) of the Piano 5tet op. 87 recorded by the "Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet", accompanied by piano 5tets by Dussek (F minor, op. 41) and Onslow ( G major, op, 76).  Beyond the usual string instruments dated from 17xx/18xx, the fortepiano in each trio is varied, each work being played with a fortepiano roughly contemporary with its composition and from the work's country of origin (in the case of the Hummel, a copy of an 1824 Viennese instrument, in the others the original instruments).

Performance wise, I would rate it favorable, under advisement: I don't have other recordings of these works to compare it with.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 24, 2010, 08:34:03 AM
I have Staier, Sepec and Queyras doing #4 to wonderful effect.

Sh*t! :o Now you mention it, I realise I actualy have that... :-[

Must say the disc was solely on my mind for the LvB, I guess the Hummel did not make much of remaining impression other than that it was a pleasant, competent run-through of the musical style of the period. I must listen to it again and give it another chance - if these performers can't convince me, nobody can.

Q

http://www.amazon.fr/Hummel-Mathilde-von-Guise/dp/B003PENUFA/ref=cm_cmu_up_add_glance

Hello ! I am a new arrived on your forum . Excuse me for my bad english (i am french).
i am a fan of Hummel since nealy 30 years . And it is with enthousiasm that i have found
the CD of his opera Mathilde De Guise (see link above ) .really it confirm my affection
to this composer . The ouverture is a powerfull and vivid piece ( it is a rare example ,
i suppose , of what sort of symphonies he could compose ....) .
this opera is skilfully orchestrated ,the style is between Mozart and Cherubini with very fines
melodies and romantics touches.The ensembles are particularly vivids....

A quick word in praise of the spirited and energetic "Military" Septet - so-called because of the novel inclusion of a trumpet in the ensemble,  whose contribution is mainly limited to "trumpet-call" figures.  It may not be the "deepest" of music - but we cannot eat breakfast all day.  And the slow movement is a gem :)

Taking the risk of shok some of you ,i think that Hummel ,in his best works reach the level
Beethoven .And it is very easy to demonstrate rhis assertion.
Primo : an histeric religion of beethoven after 1850 ,( it concerns above all his symphonies if you
remark ) , overshadowed all his contemporaries . Only survive  2 operas of Weber and some
lied of Schubert .  Composers as Hummel ,Dussek or Moscheles were considered like heretics,
in great part for their aesthetics choices and not for the quality of their compositions ; in this scope
the "masters" of ideology cited in example some inoffensives sonatinas or over rondolettos of these
"charming composers",taking care to not speaking of major works (Hummel's sonata op 81 or
moscheleses sonata op 49 , even instrumental works of Weber and Schubert were considered
weaks). It is very spicy to see Mendelssohn criticizing the piano music of Hummel  when his
own piano music is in the same way . It is very remarkable that Chopin was more fan of Hummel
than Beethoven ( see the programs of his pupils) .
The same problem came between the "divinized" Mozart and the "papa" Haydn .  An other between
the "great" Bach  and the "trivial" and "too prolific" Telemann.
only after 1970 some independant musicologists pointed these stupidities ,and it is only now that
we can see some timids results...

The techniques of Beethoven and Hummel are not fondamentally different : their music abond in similars  figures ( virtuoso passages , fugatos , massives chords , expressives arpeggios....)
They are the directs sons of Clementi .
Beethoven is more structuring and "German" ; Hummel more "kaelidoscopic" and "austro-bohemian".
but these aspects have numerous exceptions ( the sonatas , masses...). these considerations not
presume of the quality of the music .

for the suit "I'll be back" cause i have no time.
See you later

Quote from: assadourian on July 30, 2010, 02:07:10 AM
Taking the risk of shok some of you ,i think that Hummel ,in his best works reach the level
Beethoven .And it is very easy to demonstrate rhis assertion.
Primo : an histeric religion of beethoven after 1850 ,( it concerns above all his symphonies if you
remark ) , overshadowed all his contemporaries . Only survive  2 operas of Weber

Personally I am deeply allergic to "League Tables Of Greatness" (or "Composers Variously Rated" as a gentleman once tried to catalogue them a few years ago in another place on the internet).

However, the idea that Hummel's work can stand direct comparison with Beethoven's doesn't shock me at all (although a few people will have a heart-murmur over that!).   I wonder if Beethoven's star is now in the descendant?  Mozart's all-weaning worship has conquered all before it (thank you, Milos Forman!). 

Perhaps I misunderstood you about Weber's operas?   There are more than two complete operas.  FREISCHUTZ, EURYANTHE and OBERON are the most popular - there is also ABU HASSAN, SILVANA, PETER SCHMOLL (dialogue has been lost, but easily replicated anyhow).  There are several more which survive only in partial form.

I notice you've passed over Spohr, who is a very important Beethoven contemporary...    the rather earlier but greatly profilic Gassmann...  Cherubini...   Paer...   Auber....     :)   Not a criticism!  More a reflection on how much music exists in Beethoven's shadow ;)

Excuse me ,i am in absolute accord with you : cause of my bad possession of english language ,
i wanted to say  " only 2 or 3 operas of Weber survived in 1850 (and not today) ".
Of course i love Spohr and others contemporaries of Beethoven . But here i speaked about Hummel.
I detest the notion of "greater composer" or "genious" and others ideas of XIX° century.
I am a fan so of this list : Dussek , Neukomm, JB Cramer, Clementi, Field, F.Ries, Czerny, Tomasek,
Vorisek, Reicha , Woelfl, F.Schneider, Do you know the marvellous pianos pieces of APF BOELY.
Daniel Steibelt (1765-1823) is an other injustly completly neglected competitor of Beethoven: i made
a detailed list of his output on Wikipedia in english....
Ps : i am not an ennemy of Beethoven

Quote from: assadourian on July 31, 2010, 01:09:01 AM
Ps : i am not an ennemy of Beethoven

And I don't think anyone would suggest you are, Assadourian! :)

I'm afraid I have not heard of Boely, so I shall make efforts to remedy this today, on your recommendation!

Another composer in this period (although initially he doesn't appear so - due to dying in his early 30s, in 1796) was the Englishman Stephen Storace.   His work was almost exclusively confined to the opera-house - although he wrote some string trios.  He's an early example of Romanticism,  and also of a political trend in composition...   he made an opera (THE IRON CHEST) from the banned novel CALEB WILLIAMS by Godwin.  (The novel attempted to show the evil results of corrupt government,  through the fictional case of Williams - a loyal servant whose life is ruined by his wicked master).   But Storace is not only politics - he also showed the Romantic taste for exotic locations (THE CHEROKEE, MAHMOUD PRINCE OF PERSIA), ghostly events (THE HAUNTED TOWER) and exciting escapes (THE PIRATES, THE SIEGE OF BELGRADE).  And the music is extraordinary!   Who knows what more he might have done?   Sadly all his scores were burned when the Drury Lane Theatre caught fire - but they exist in the printed Vocal Scores of his period.

Quote from: assadourian on July 31, 2010, 01:09:01 AM
Daniel Steibelt (1765-1823) is an other injustly completly neglected competitor of Beethoven: i made
a detailed list of his output on Wikipedia in english....

Amazingly, I actually have a work by him on the disc below. I like getting discs like that of some less popular composers - Field was the only one I had heard of (and also like). Not sure if this disc is still available, but some nice music here, and includes works by Field, Steibelt, Mayer, Tepper, and Hassler. I  like Hummel too though, and am listening to the Hummel disc below as we speak (to keep us on topic :)) The music really holds my attention. 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/2142VR7R97L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPD3QVZTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I have had this Hummel CD in my collection for numerous years having heard the Rondo Brilliante op 109 for piano solo on Radio 3. Its a great piece and the final 2 minutes are delivered superbly by pianist Christine Croshaw - the fiendishly left hand passage work with right hand trills almost sound like a piano duet in her very dexterous fingers. I urge Hummel fans to enjoy this disc and the gracious cello sonata on the disc with the very lyrical cellist Charles Tunnell
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chamber-Music-Hummel/dp/B000003XBS/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1285974078&sr=1-7

Quote from: tarantella on October 01, 2010, 03:01:45 PM
I have had this Hummel CD in my collection for numerous years having heard the Rondo Brilliante op 109 for piano solo on Radio 3. Its a great piece and the final 2 minutes are delivered superbly by pianist Christine Croshaw - the fiendishly left hand passage work with right hand trills almost sound like a piano duet in her very dexterous fingers. I urge Hummel fans to enjoy this disc and the gracious cello sonata on the disc with the very lyrical cellist Charles Tunnell
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chamber-Music-Hummel/dp/B000003XBS/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1285974078&sr=1-7

Hello Tarantella - welcome to the GMG Forum -  :)

I own about 10 discs of Hummel's music and the recording you linked peaked my interest; unfortunately seems to be OOP at the moment - I did find a potential MP3 download w/ the same performers doing a Vol. 2 of this composer's chamber works (Amazon USA; pic below) - just wonder now 'how much' they have performed?  These recordings are on the Meridian label - so would be curious about the comments of others on this label and these performances - thanks all!


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Wp4BY%2BA1L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Here is a link to Vol 1 of the Hummel set with Meridian which includes the piece I mentioned, the Rondo Brilliante op109 for solo piano

http://www.meridian-records.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.meridian-records.co.uk%2facatalog%2f&WD=croshaw&PN=Online_Catalogue_CDE_84217_HUMMEL_Chamber_Music_102.html%23aCDE84217#aCDE84217

Croshaw's performance of it really sparkles, in fact it does so throughout the CD, but her playing of the fiendish final 2 mins is really rather special as it sounds like a piano duet with fast moving left hand scales and right hand trills. I just listened again to the cello sonata and its just lovely.

Here is a link to other Cds with Meridian by these performers as they concentrate on solo piano and piano chamber music of Hummel and his period, roughly - some interesting and worthwhile CDs of music by Dussek, Moscheles, Czerny (surprisingly lovely) and Weber

http://www.meridian-records.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?RANDOM=NETQUOTEVAR%3ARANDOM&PAGE=SEARCH&SS=croshaw&TB=A&GB=A&SX=0&ACTION=Search

Enjoy and do please post your thoughts here...

Ps they are all available on itune I notice!
Tho Hummel Vol 1, Moscheles and Dussek CDs are listed under CROSHAW
and the others under Clive Conway...others being Hummel Vol 2 and the Czerny Chamber Music disc
All great - would love to hear your thoughts

Hello Tarantella - checked BRO (http://broinc.com/search.php?row=0&brocode=&stocknum=&submit=Find+Item&text=hummel&filter=all) and picked up the two Hummel discs below for $9 total!  Just arrived today so have not yet had a chance to hear the discs - but will soon!  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HummelChamMusicV2/1045395732_szZeL-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HummelPSonatas56/1045395803_KyW2E-O.jpg)

Great- look forward to hearing your thoughts on the very colourful piano playing, esp the 109 Rondo Brilliante which is a ripper!

Quote from: tarantella on October 13, 2010, 12:10:42 PM
Great- look forward to hearing your thoughts on the very colourful piano playing, esp the 109 Rondo Brilliante which is a ripper!

Well, in my 'small' order from BRO, I picked up another Hummel disc, i.e. the '24 Grande Etudes, Op. 125' w/ the Rondos & Tres Amusements (Op. 105, 109, & 122) w/ John Khouri on a restored Jacob Pfister fortepiano c. 1820 - these are some of Hummel's last works, esp. the Etudes which are quite variable in their combination of 'old vs. newer' concepts of piano composition and their technical expertise needed, i.e. some easy & others harder? A good review from Fanfare Reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106263) may better describe my own thoughts at the moment after a first listening!  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HummelEtudesKhouri/1046847574_EGPzV-O.jpg)

Quote from: SonicMan on October 13, 2010, 04:24:19 PM
Well, in my 'small' order from BRO, I picked up another Hummel disc, i.e. the '24 Grande Etudes, Op. 125' w/ the Rondos & Tres Amusements (Op. 105, 109, & 122) w/ John Khouri on a restored Jacob Pfister fortepiano c. 1820 - these are some of Hummel's last works, esp. the Etudes which are quite variable in their combination of 'old vs. newer' concepts of piano composition and their technical expertise needed, i.e. some easy & others harder? A good review from Fanfare Reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106263) may better describe my own thoughts at the moment after a first listening!  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HummelEtudesKhouri/1046847574_EGPzV-O.jpg)

Dave, if you like op. 125, try to get Danielle Laval's recording (probably out of print and, if I'm not mistaken, released in Audivis).

Quote from: Gabriel on October 13, 2010, 09:29:06 PM
Dave, if you like op. 125, try to get Danielle Laval's recording (probably out of print and, if I'm not mistaken, released in Audivis).

Hi Gabriel - thanks for the recommendation w/ Danielle Laval - found the image below on Amazon USA but was 'unavailable' - checked ClassicsOnline (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=870591) - offering the MP3 download for $8 - I mainly bought the other disc to hear Khoury's piano (and it was cheap @ BRO!).

Not sure that I like these etudes by him (vs. the many other discs that I own of his earlier music) but the works are quite varied - have you had a chance to compare different recordings?

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f2/2f/d961c0a398a09a1f072cf110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

do you use itunes sonicman?

Quote from: tarantella on October 14, 2010, 03:31:42 PM
do you use itunes sonicman?

Well, yes & no - I have an iPod Touch and use iTunes for that purpose; I've downloaded a number of non-musical apps, but no music to date; so I guess that I'm open to suggestions?   :D

aha! i ask as the rondo brilliante op109 that i enjoy so much is available on the meridian cd with croshaw playing on itunes - you can also buy that track as a single purchase for 79p or the whole album, with the very lovely cello sonata, for £8.00
cheaper and more immediate:?

Quote from: SonicMan on October 14, 2010, 04:33:51 PM
Well, yes & no - I have an iPod Touch and use iTunes for that purpose; I've downloaded a number of non-musical apps, but no music to date; so I guess that I'm open to suggestions?   :D

God you're just like my parents! :D  They have Touch and use the apps and never listen to music.  Even if you don't like listening to music on earphones Dave, there is one thing you might like-- when you buy digital music you don't have to burn a cd because

(a) with a dock or just a headphone mini (1/8th inch) to mini cable you can plug your ipod into your amp/receiver,
(b) with an fm transmitter you can listen to your ipod in your car

Consider it. :)

Quote from: DavidW on October 15, 2010, 06:56:11 AM
God you're just like my parents! :D  They have Touch and use the apps and never listen to music.  Even if you don't like listening to music on earphones Dave, there is one thing you might like-- when you buy digital music you don't have to burn a cd because......

Now David, you misunderstood my comments - my meaning was that I've not downloaded any music from iTunes; I have at least 6 MP3 downloads on the iPod from ClassicsOnline (believe you may have asked me about that site?) and I've 'ripped' plenty of my own CDs to MP3 format and loaded them onto the iPod - at present I have well over 40 albums of music on the device and plan to add more.

For listening, I use all sorts of options, including earphones, small portable speakers (which I take on the road), and direct plug-in to my home stereo & basement boombox, and any type of speaker system that may be in our hotel rooms - so I use the device at home, in the bedroom, on a treadmill, in hotel rooms w/ earphones and external speakers of all sizes and types -  ;D  Dave

P.S. Below a pic of my portable Altec Lansing speakers which fold for easy packing - just posting an image because the price is a steal at the moment on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-IM4-Portable-System/dp/B0007LBVH8/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1287156222&sr=1-21) ($24!) - I paid 3x that amount a number of years ago - must be coming out w/ another updated model?

Just had a chance for a first listen of the Meridian V.2 CD below - a mixture of solo piano & piano w/ flute or violin - the performances are indeed wonderful as mentioned in previous recent posts in this thread; the recorded sound is excellent - will decide on acquiring the first volume -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HummelChamMusicV2/1045395732_szZeL-O.jpg)

Oh sorry I didn't get you, my bad! 

If you're afraid of using the itunes store you should know that the music is drm free and I've copied bought music between pcs without a problem.  And the aac format is finally being supported by non-apple brands like sansa and sony so you don't have to worry about lockin. :)

I might buy that set you have, seems cheap and convenient and I like Altec Lansing.

Quote from: DavidW on October 15, 2010, 07:36:50 AM
Oh sorry I didn't get you, my bad! 

If you're afraid of using the itunes store you should know that the music is drm free and I've copied bought music between pcs without a problem.  And the aac format is finally being supported by non-apple brands like sansa and sony so you don't have to worry about lockin. :)

I might buy that set you have, seems cheap and convenient and I like Altec Lansing.

No problem at all but did not want you thinking of me as an 'ole codger' -  ;) ;D

At that Amazon price, I would strongly recommend those portable speakers (actually my 2nd set - I left the first one purchased in a hotel room - now I make a list of all of electronics on a trip and check each item off when I leave the room) - comes w/ a short built-in mini-stereo plug or a longer dual mini plug & DC adapter (also works on batteries) and a cloth 'stinged' carrying case; the sound is of course not loud but pleasantly fills up a hotel room or a bedroom.  Dave  :)

Well I'm not looking for loud since I live in an apartment.  Sounds up my alley. :)

Sonic, here's the last 2 mins of the Hummel op109 - its great
http://www.christinecroshaw.com/discography

Glad you liked the Volume 2 Hummel - I think the Viola Sonata is great. Glad you agree with my recommendation of a very neglected pianist too!

Great 2 hour Hummel night on Classic FM last night
For those who missed it, you can listen again now:
http://www.classicfm.co.uk/on-air/programmes/full-works-concert-with-jane-jones/weeks-running-order/friday-running-order/

Well, 2 years since a post here - Hummel was just brought up in the classical thread, so I decided to review my modest collection of his works which I've probably not added to since then - now own just over a dozen discs, plus have some of his works on 'mixed' discs w/ other composers (an * in the list below).

In reviewing his list of compositions (HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel)), there are 127 Opus numbers (earlier ones w/ multiple works) + some released posthumously - I can find NO symphonies, so for instrumental music, mostly solo piano and chamber works of various types.

For those w/ recent additions to their Hummel collection, please post some of your favorites - about to look on Amazon to see what might have been released more recently - could easily add another disc or two!  Dave :)

P.S. Piano Septets - two different performances of the same works, the Brilliant disc on period instruments.

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-4QwkG8w/0/M/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-17%20at%2010.46.59%20AM-M.png)

Thanks Annie for the list - we'll have to make you the official Hummel Expert here! :)

We do have a lot of overlap when comparing our lists - just have two of the piano concertos, so an area to expand for me; also, I was on Amazon today exploring the Hummel offerings and added the two below, which should arrive early next week - Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bAuj%2B-FFL.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gZAM9h-SL.jpg)

One of my more recent acquisitions (considering I am on a little buying hiatus at the moment to allow me to enjoy what I already have) was the String Quartets disc on Hyperion (Delme Quartet, picture below). They are surprisingly virile performances (for me anyway). At least they are not that stereotypical Hummel playing that I have run across, where everything seems a bit blah.

[asin]B0006OR166[/asin]

I have all the piano concerto discs from Chandos, and I think none are less than excellent (with some magnificant). Can't go wrong with those.

I don't have that much Hummel (or that much classical/early romantic music, for that matter) in my collection, but I can't recommend this beautiful disc highly enough:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPD3QVZTL._SX300_.jpg)

These two minor-key works have an air of subdued melancholy rather akin to Schubert or Chopin. There's very little in the way of Beethovenian sturm und drang here, though Hummel's music has a discernible inner drama. Anyone who enjoys the late Mozart PCs, those by John Field, or pretty much PCs in general will find much to enjoy here. Hough's phrasing is astonishing, and the ECO under Bryden Thomson make sensitive yet involved partners with Hough. :)

Quote from: kyjo on August 17, 2013, 12:33:59 PM
I don't have that much Hummel (or that much classical/early romantic music, for that matter) in my collection, but I can't recommend this beautiful disc highly enough:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPD3QVZTL._SX300_.jpg)

These two minor-key works have an air of subdued melancholy rather akin to Schubert or Chopin. There's very little in the way of Beethovenian sturm und drang here, though Hummel's music has a discernible inner drama. Anyone who enjoys the late Mozart PCs, those by John Field, or pretty much PCs in general will find much to enjoy here. Hough's phrasing is astonishing, and the ECO under Bryden Thomson make sensitive yet involved partners with Hough. :)

It is one of my favorite discs - of any composer! I have posted it many times (including once in this thread), so I am glad to see someone singing its praises. It was the first time I really appreciated Hummel for what he is.

The Hough is one of my three favorite Hummel recordings.  The other two are the piano trios on MDG and string quartets on Hyperion/Helios.

I tend to put Hummel, Spohr and Reicha into a special bridging position between the Classical and Romantic era; Hummel always is on top.

Quote from: kyjo on August 17, 2013, 12:33:59 PM
I don't have that much Hummel (or that much classical/early romantic music, for that matter) in my collection, but I can't recommend this beautiful disc highly enough:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPD3QVZTL._SX300_.jpg)

These two minor-key works have an air of subdued melancholy rather akin to Schubert or Chopin. There's very little in the way of Beethovenian sturm und drang here, though Hummel's music has a discernible inner drama. Anyone who enjoys the late Mozart PCs, those by John Field, or pretty much PCs in general will find much to enjoy here. Hough's phrasing is astonishing, and the ECO under Bryden Thomson make sensitive yet involved partners with Hough. :)

The disc that introduced me to Hummel beyond the trumpet concerto and a couple fripperies.
All of these are great. Brilliant is starting to record the concerti with fortepiano.

Naxos has some excellent chamber stuff too.

Quote from: Ken B on May 08, 2014, 04:14:30 PM
The disc that introduced me to Hummel beyond the trumpet concerto and a couple fripperies.
All of these are great. Brilliant is starting to record the concerti with fortepiano.

Naxos has some excellent chamber stuff too.

Well Ken, a lot of Hummel to explore - don't think that I've added any discs since my list of nearly a year ago - will need to check - Dave :)

Addendum - just checked my database and have added several more Hummel discs since my last post & shown below:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bAuj%2B-FFL.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OonCffChL.jpg)

Well, no activity in the Hummel thread for over 1 1/2 years - just returned to my collection today and decided to replace an old 2-CD set that had the trumpet & mandolin concertos and some flute chamber works w/ the two discs below - coming from the Amazon MP.

Any other new releases of this composer's works that others have acquired?  Dave :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lOh6dvRXL.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61kohVQd7RL.jpg)

I don't listen to Hummel as much as I ought.  And not merely because he is as inventive as he is entertaining.  He brings back fond memories of listening to Karl Haas and his daily Adventures in Good Music radio show.  Haas seemed to play and discuss Hummel every chance he got.  So much so, there was a time when I thought, jokingly, of changing my name to Nepomuk.  Fun to say and always got a chuckle outta my wife.  (My apologies for this bit of inanity, which I hope to atone for by earnestly recommending this) :

[asin]B0000CE0YX[/asin]

Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on December 16, 2015, 01:39:24 PM
I don't listen to Hummel as much as I ought.  And not merely because he is as inventive as he is entertaining.  He brings back fond memories of listening to Karl Haas and his daily Adventures in Good Music radio show.  Haas seemed to play and discuss Hummel every chance he got.  So much so, there was a time when I thought, jokingly, of changing my name to Nepomuk.  Fun to say and always got a chuckle outta my wife.  (My apologies for this bit of inanity, which I hope to atone for by earnestly recommending this) :

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5175a5kxsPL.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fYsTLbNML.jpg)

Enjoyed the Hummel I listened to today - pulled the rest of my collection for tomorrow - I have a number of piano sonatas & concerto discs - was also viewing the one added above on Amazon - might be an additional consideration for me as a 'wind' enthusiast - ;)  Dave

Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on December 16, 2015, 01:39:24 PM
I don't listen to Hummel as much as I ought.  And not merely because he is as inventive as he is entertaining.  He brings back fond memories of listening to Karl Haas and his daily Adventures in Good Music radio show.  Haas seemed to play and discuss Hummel every chance he got.  So much so, there was a time when I thought, jokingly, of changing my name to Nepomuk.  Fun to say and always got a chuckle outta my wife.  (My apologies for this bit of inanity, which I hope to atone for by earnestly recommending this) :

No!  Not inane at all!  Karl Haas was great, and did have his favorites, like Hummel!   Other favorites of his were Czerny, Poulenc, along with Milhaud.  Second Vienna School did not get played much.   ;)

Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on December 16, 2015, 01:39:24 PM
Haas seemed to play and discuss Hummel every chance he got.  So much so, there was a time when I thought, jokingly, of changing my name to Nepomuk.  Fun to say and always got a chuckle outta my wife.  (My apologies for this bit of inanity, which I hope to atone for by earnestly recommending this) :

This is totally OT but did you ever encounter Michael Ende's book(s) "Jim Button and Luke the Engine driver"? They were favorites of mine when I was about 7 and they feature a (semi)dragon named Nepomuk. Because the name is so uncommon and this was my first encounter with it Nepomuk will always evoke that little critter...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Button_and_Luke_the_Engine_Driver

Quote from: Cato on December 16, 2015, 04:41:25 PM
No!  Not inane at all!  Karl Haas was great, and did have his favorites, like Hummel!   Other favorites of his were Czerny, Poulenc, along with Milhaud.  Second Vienna School did not get played much.   ;)

"Second Vienna School did not get played much."  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  he played a lotta Nathan Milstein (turned out he was a personal friend, didn't know that at the time) - and once he proclaimed him to be the greatest violinist of the 20th century.  I miss him greatly; not many days go by when I don't think about him and his friendly, sonorous "Hello, everyone!" His love for music was infectious; I was, of course, already infected but his talents and knowledge made the affliction much, much worse.  And, of course, I loved the mystery composer game, and frequently did well in it. I used to make my staff listen to the program (for their own good, you see) - they grew to like him nearly as much as I did.  I don't understand why he shouldn't live forever.  Well, come to think on it, I guess he does...

Quote from: Jo498 on December 16, 2015, 11:01:49 PM
This is totally OT but did you ever encounter Michael Ende's book(s) "Jim Button and Luke the Engine driver"? They were favorites of mine when I was about 7 and they feature a (semi)dragon named Nepomuk. Because the name is so uncommon and this was my first encounter with it Nepomuk will always evoke that little critter...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Button_and_Luke_the_Engine_Driver

Just vaguely aware of that book - THANK YOU!!! - I am supposed to be an 'expert' in the area (seriously!) of children's RR books and so am pursuing your lead forthwith. And you know, I could always still change my name to Nepomuk, it's not off the table yet.  Another name I liked as well : Gulab Jamun (after the sweet Indian dessert), but an Indian restaurant waiter (after laughing so much he had to grip his belly) informed me in a tone that left no margin for error that it would prob. be a girl's name.  So that is off the table, sigh.  :laugh:   I can see we should get back to Johann Nepomuk Hummel, Karl Haas would want us to, though even he would occasionally digress. 

Here he is, below; I wonder how many GMGers on seeing his portrait, could say "Hey, THAT'S Johann Nepomuk Hummel!" ?

It's actually a very good book (and the sequel as well) and it was hugely popular from its publication in the early 1960s (although Ende had had a hard time finding a publisher at all). Internationally he probably became far more famous with the "Neverending Story" almost 20 years later but Jim and Luke/Lukas (and Emma, the Engine) were famous long before Bastian and the lucky dragon.

Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on December 17, 2015, 04:54:11 AM
"Second Vienna School did not get played much."  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  he played a lotta Nathan Milstein (turned out he was a personal friend, didn't know that at the time) - and once he proclaimed him to be the greatest violinist of the 20th century.  I miss him greatly; not many days go by when I don't think about him and his friendly, sonorous "Hello, everyone!"...  I don't understand why he shouldn't live forever.  Well, come to think on it, I guess he does...

When I was in northern Ohio, I picked up a classical station either out of Toledo or Fort Wayne, Indiana, and it was playing one of Karl's old shows!

One show's title really sticks in my mind: "For the Truck Drivers of America!"  ??? 8) 0:)   He put together a collection of "traveling music" for the truck drivers who listened to him.

And speaking of the good old days and performers like Nathan Milstein...

Maurice Andre!

https://www.youtube.com/v/pXN4GAar4CI

Quote from: Cato on December 17, 2015, 01:27:13 PM
When I was in northern Ohio, I picked up a classical station either out of Toledo or Fort Wayne, Indiana, and it was playing one of Karl's old shows!

One show's title really sticks in my mind: "For the Truck Drivers of America!"  ??? 8) 0:)   He put together a collection of "traveling music" for the truck drivers who listened to him.

And speaking of the good old days and performers like Nathan Milstein...

Thanks!  I remember the truck driver's installment.  Definitely a man of the people!  Apparently the family does not want Karl's old shows to be aired - dunno why.  In any case, some followers, several hundred strong and now myself among them, are klamoring for Karl on a FB page :  https://www.facebook.com/Return-Karl-Haas-Adventures-in-Good-Music-to-the-Air-119871148037459/

Some NEW Hummel CDs arrived today - culled out an old 2-disc set of flute and mandolin performances and replaced w/ the two below:

Now listening to the Flute Sonatas w/ piano & cello - modern instruments; performers all Canadians but w/ excellent credentials - great recorded sound on this bargain disc - if you like the flute, then recommended!

Mandolin works up next - Dorina Frati on a mandolin described as R. Calace, 1988 - see Wiki quote below; Raffaele Calace (1863-1934) - there is no further information in the notes on this instrument, but possibly a reproduction (or restoration) of an instrument used and/or made by Calace - just checked my collection and have the disc below of some of his mandolin music; also, a pic of Frati below on a mandolin that looks similar to the one pictured w/ her in the notes.

Finally, a PDF file attached w/ some reviews of these recordings, for those interested.  Dave :)

QuoteRaffaele Calace was an Italian mandolin player, composer, and luthier. Calace was born in Naples, Italy, the son of Antonio Calace, a successful instrument maker.

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-CL89CFJ/0/O/Hummel_Flute_Daoust.jpg)  (https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9tXrvPG/0/O/Hummel_Mandolin_Frati.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X1gGKyVBL.jpg)  (http://www.iado-luthier.com/iado2015/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Dorina-Frati.jpg)

Well, stimulated by my 'wind interest' in Hummel in the post above, the CD quoted below (i.e. post just left in the 'listening thread') just arrived from the Czech Republic - I made the purchase at the Praga Camerata (http://www.pragacamerata.com/product/cd-hummel/) website hoping to save a few bucks (vs. the Amazon prices) - but when I placed my order, no CC was asked - after a series of email exchanges w/ Pavel Hula (assume the conductor of the orchestral on the cover art below), he wanted me to send $18 USA cash (no check) to him - so w/ the postage across the pond, I'll likely pay a similar price - BUT, as stated below, the disc is enjoyable!  Dave :)

QuoteHummel, Johann (1778-1837) - Oboe Variations, Septet, & Bassoon Concerto w/ Pavel Hula-Praga Camerata & Czech Nonet - new arrival directly from the Czech Republic and enjoying tremendously, i.e. a 'different side' of Hummel compared to the other CDs owned! :)  Dave

P.S. Pic of the Nonet added - not the same image as in the liner notes but looks like the same performers - wind instruments appear modern to me - these works were composed in the early 19th century, so the winds were in transition - BTW, this is a SACD (which I cannot appreciate w/ my aged equipment - ;)).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fYsTLbNML.jpg)  (http://www.janackuvmaj.cz/soubory/interpreti/148_12-nonet_mensi.jpg)

One of my last purchases before Xmas had been the piano trio set with the Parnassus Trio (MDG). These are already from the late 1980s (must be among the ensemble's first recordings) but well-recorded, brilliantly played and thoroughly enjoyable.

Well, nearly another year has gone by w/o a Hummel post!   ???

Recently, I've been looking at my collection of Hummel's Piano Sonatas - I had owned the discs below at the top for a while, i.e. Stephen Hough doing 3 sonatas and John Khouri on several fortepianos, repeating the same works.  So in checking Amazon, I just received the 3 volumes by Ian Hobson on Arabesque recorded in 1986 - the sound is excellent and the performances marvelous to my ears - see the attached PDF for reviews of all these Hobson CDs, plus a review of the Hough disc by Jerry Dubins, who seems to prefer Hough (not sure but will do a comparison) - BTW, all of the Arabesque discs are 'used' and w/ a little credit got each for just $4.

Now, there seems to be some confusion about 'how many' piano sonatas were composed by Hummel - he did write a LOT of music for the instrument being not only a performer himself, but also a popular teacher.  The 'official number' seems to be six, which are included on the Hobson CDs - the listing is shown below (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel)), but in his non-catalog works, Piano Sonatas Nos. 7-9 are listed?  As to the latter, recordings are available from Centaur Records w/ Antonio Pompa-Baldi, who has done two volumes of Hummel's sonatas and may do a third to complete the series? 

So, would be curious about others' experiences w/ this composer's piano sonatas, whether on a modern piano or a fortepiano - Dave :)

QuotePiano Sonata No. 1, Op. 2a-No.3 (1792)
Piano Sonata No. 2, Op. 13 (c. 1804)
Piano Sonata No. 3, Op. 20 (c. 1807)
Piano Sonata No. 4, Op. 38 (c. 1808)
Piano Sonata No. 5, Op. 81 (date?)
Piano Sonata No. 6, Op. 106 (1824))

Piano Sonatas No. 7-9 - not in any catalog?

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Quote from: SonicMan46 on December 05, 2016, 09:50:49 AM
Well, nearly another year has gone by w/o a Hummel post!   ???

Recently, I've been looking at my collection of Hummel's Piano Sonatas - I had owned the discs below at the top for a while, i.e. Stephen Hough doing 3 sonatas and John Khouri on several fortepianos, repeating the same works.  So in checking Amazon, I just received the 3 volumes by Ian Hobson on Arabesque recorded in 1986 - the sound is excellent and the performances marvelous to my ears - see the attached PDF for reviews of all these Hobson CDs, plus a review of the Hough disc by Jerry Dubins, who seems to prefer Hough (not sure but will do a comparison) - BTW, all of the Arabesque discs are 'used' and w/ a little credit got each for just $4.

Now, there seems to be some confusion about 'how many' piano sonatas were composed by Hummel - he did write a LOT of music for the instrument being not only a performer himself, but also a popular teacher.  The 'official number' seems to be six, which are included on the Hobson CDs - the listing is shown below (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel)), but in his non-catalog works, Piano Sonatas Nos. 7-9 are listed?  As to the latter, recordings are available from Centaur Records w/ Antonio Pompa-Baldi, who has done two volumes of Hummel's sonatas and may do a third to complete the series? 

So, would be curious about others' experiences w/ this composer's piano sonatas, whether on a modern piano or a fortepiano - Dave :)

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I love 'em. I can't say I know one from the other, they are still just discs o' Hummel to me, due to lack of individual attention, but that may change. They are more consistent than Clementi's but C wrote so many I guess that is no surprise.

The Ian Hobson recordings of the piano sonatas are indeed excellent. Stephen Hough is slightly better, but this is pretty much a general rule for everything Stephen Hough ever recorded. I don't think one can go wrong with either.

Piano Sonatas "7 through 9" were written between Op. 2/3 and Op. 13, I believe, whilst Hummel was a teenager. I wouldn't call them essential, though I wouldn't call Op. 2/3 or 38 essential either. If you like those two, you'll probably enjoy 7-9 just as much.

Of the piano sonatas I would say Op. 81 is not only the greatest, but probably Hummel's best work in general. Its popularity throughout the nineteenth century was well-deserved. I'd put Op. 13 in second place, but that's probably a somewhat heterodox opinion; that said, it's the work where Hummel's style crystallised (not to undergo any significant changes for the rest of his career) and has a certain youthful freshness and vitality that I don't find in some of the later works once that style had occasionally turned into formula (e.g. stretches of Op. 106, which I think is a more conventional second choice).

The fugal finale of Op. 106 is also a masterpiece; the fugal finale of Op. 20, not quite so much. Op. 20 I think could have been an impressive work but comes across as curiously underdeveloped—perhaps the most interesting concept of Hummel's sonatas but he ends up backing down somehow on its promises. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

The weakness of Hummel's sonatas and the thing that makes them hard to tell apart sometimes is of course that he wasn't good at coming up with memorable thematic ideas. At his best, he's aware of this, and uses various strategies to maintain interest, eg the brilliant "pre-Chopinesque" ornamentation of Op. 81/ii which successfully enlivens the rather generic shape of his melody, or replacing full-blown themes with a kind of cantus firmus that moves polyphonically through the texture, but very often he nonetheless can't do without those full-blown themes and they tend to be some combination of schmaltzy and generic. Only Op. 81 avoids having any such themes, and it is also the most fun to play, btw.

For early Romantic piano sonatas not by Schubert, Hummel doesn't approach the quality of Dussek's La retour à Paris or L'Invocation or Élégie harmonique, but his sonatas as a whole are better than the majority of Dussek's, and about on a level with those of Clementi, differing chiefly in that Clementi doesn't really seem aware of his difficulty in coming up with memorable thematic ideas.

Quote from: amw on December 05, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
The Ian Hobson recordings of the piano sonatas are indeed excellent. Stephen Hough is slightly better, but this is pretty much a general rule for everything Stephen Hough ever recorded. I don't think one can go wrong with either.

Piano Sonatas "7 through 9" were written between Op. 2/3 and Op. 13, I believe, whilst Hummel was a teenager. I wouldn't call them essential, though I wouldn't call Op. 2/3 or 38 essential either. If you like those two, you'll probably enjoy 7-9 just as much.

Of the piano sonatas I would say Op. 81 is not only the greatest, but probably Hummel's best work in general. Its popularity throughout the nineteenth century was well-deserved. I'd put Op. 13 in second place, but that's probably a somewhat heterodox opinion; that said, it's the work where Hummel's style crystallised (not to undergo any significant changes for the rest of his career) and has a certain youthful freshness and vitality that I don't find in some of the later works once that style had occasionally turned into formula (e.g. stretches of Op. 106, which I think is a more conventional second choice).

The fugal finale of Op. 106 is also a masterpiece; the fugal finale of Op. 20, not quite so much. Op. 20 I think could have been an impressive work but comes across as curiously underdeveloped—perhaps the most interesting concept of Hummel's sonatas but he ends up backing down somehow on its promises. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

The weakness of Hummel's sonatas and the thing that makes them hard to tell apart sometimes is of course that he wasn't good at coming up with memorable thematic ideas. At his best, he's aware of this, and uses various strategies to maintain interest, eg the brilliant "pre-Chopinesque" ornamentation of Op. 81/ii which successfully enlivens the rather generic shape of his melody, or replacing full-blown themes with a kind of cantus firmus that moves polyphonically through the texture, but very often he nonetheless can't do without those full-blown themes and they tend to be some combination of schmaltzy and generic. Only Op. 81 avoids having any such themes, and it is also the most fun to play, btw.

For early Romantic piano sonatas not by Schubert, Hummel doesn't approach the quality of Dussek's La retour à Paris or L'Invocation or Élégie harmonique, but his sonatas as a whole are better than the majority of Dussek's, and about on a level with those of Clementi, differing chiefly in that Clementi doesn't really seem aware of his difficulty in coming up with memorable thematic ideas.

That's a very interesting analysis. Thank you!

Quote from: david johnson on May 03, 2007, 10:38:52 AM
his trumpet concerto is a favorite among trumpeters...i played it on a recital.  great tune.

He wrote a Grand Concerto in F for Bassoon and orchestra...it is really "grand"...quite a workout...

Quote from: amw on December 05, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
The Ian Hobson recordings of the piano sonatas are indeed excellent. Stephen Hough is slightly better, but this is pretty much a general rule for everything Stephen Hough ever recorded. I don't think one can go wrong with either.

Piano Sonatas "7 through 9" were written between Op. 2/3 and Op. 13, I believe, whilst Hummel was a teenager. I wouldn't call them essential, though I wouldn't call Op. 2/3 or 38 essential either. If you like those two, you'll probably enjoy 7-9 just as much...................

Thanks Ken & amw for your comments.  I really enjoyed the Hobson performances - after, put on my Hough disc, of course more recent Hyperion sonics, plus his dynamics are much more emphasized to my ears - Hobson may be a more pleasant listen for me.  Concerning the Piano Sonatas, Nos. 7-9, I'd likely enjoy - will check Spotify to see if Antonio Pompa-Baldi's recording is available - we've seen him in concert and I own all of his Grieg solo piano CDs on Centaur.  Dave :)

Well, 4+ years since the last post to this Hummel thread, so TTT!  My collection has certainly changed and increased - first pic below from my most recently updated database (click to enlarge), about 17 CDs, plus works on many other multi-composer CDs; but to re-start with an update and hopefully some discussion on his:

Keyboard Sonatas - Hummel wrote 6 Piano Sonatas w/ Opus numbers (listed below) - there are now an increasing number of recordings for selection - for these late classical-early Romantic composers, I usually like to have at least one modern piano performance and also one on a fortepiano (FP).  My current collection is the top list of three images (note that Ian Hobson has 3 CDs; the Mastroprimiano on FP is also 3 discs; the Hough has 3 of the 6 sonatas).

BUT, there are more - two complete sets (parts I've listen to on Spotify) on modern pianos include Antonio Pompa-Baldi & Constance Keene also modern instrument - Pompa-Baldi (who I've seen in concert & own his Grieg recordings) is somewhat bolder in his performance while Keene has a more melodic approach in her playing - both well recorded; the others I've not heard (and there are likely more?).

So, please discuss - your favorites, if owned; potential purchases; other recommendations.  Dave :)

QuoteOp. 2a, Sonata for Piano, No. 1, in C major(London, 1792)
Op. 13, Sonata for Piano, No. 2 in E♭ major (Vienna, circa 1803–1805)
Op. 20, Sonata for Piano, No. 3 in F minor (Vienna, circa 1807)
Op. 38, Sonata for Piano, No. 4 in C major (Vienna, circa 1808)
Op. 81, Piano Sonata No. 5 in F♯ minor
Op. 106, Piano Sonata No. 6 in D major (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel))

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14 years ago I was wondering in this thread how to get into Hummel.
Today I still have ZERO CDs of his music and know nothing.
All these years went by concentrating on other things.
It's possible I will NEVER explore Hummel.
He is just one composer.

Quote from: 71 dB on March 26, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
14 years ago I was wondering in this thread how to get into Hummel.
Today I still have ZERO CDs of his music and know nothing.
All these years went by concentrating on other things.
It's possible I will NEVER explore Hummel.
He is just one composer.

Hey Poju - LOL!  :laugh:  The other day I went to the start of this thread in 2007 and you had posted a number of times - expected you to have at least a few Hummel discs by now?  But for me the 18th and early 19th centuries are probably my favorite period to explore and collect; and yes there are too many composers to consider - early last year in COVID isolation I went through my classical collection and probably culled out 20+% of the discs, mainly obscure composers, multiple duplicates, etc.  I've not bought much in several years and mainly replacements for CDs that I already own; plus, doing a lot more streaming (mainly Spotify on my son's family plan).  Dave :)

I like seeing this thread.  Dave posts about Hummel to no reply.  The third age passes.  What was once lost was found again.  The black tower is rebuilt and Dave once again posts about Hummel to no reply. :D

Quote from: DavidW on March 26, 2021, 12:10:41 PM
I like seeing this thread.  Dave posts about Hummel to no reply.  The third age passes.  What was once lost was found again.  The black tower is rebuilt and Dave once again posts about Hummel to no reply. :D

Hi David - LOL!  8)  Poor Hummel, the Rodney Dangerfield of the composer world!  ;D  Dave

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He gets no respect, no respect at all!

Well maybe I should listen to his piano sonatas.  I usually listen to his chamber music.

Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 26, 2021, 11:52:01 AM
Hey Poju - LOL!  :laugh:  The other day I went to the start of this thread in 2007 and you had posted a number of times - expected you to have at least a few Hummel discs by now?  But for me the 18th and early 19th centuries are probably my favorite period to explore and collect; and yes there are too many composers to consider - early last year in COVID isolation I went through my classical collection and probably culled out 20+% of the discs, mainly obscure composers, multiple duplicates, etc.  I've not bought much in several years and mainly replacements for CDs that I already own; plus, doing a lot more streaming (mainly Spotify on my son's family plan).  Dave :)

Yeah, Dave. It is funny that I never ended up buying any Hummel CD. As I have been posting recently, I haven't been into classical obsessively as I used to be 20 years ago. Meanwhile I have been discovering quite a lot of non-classical music since 2008 or so. Spotify is of course one way to explore new composers...

Keyboard Concertos - just for more completeness, Hummel wrote Piano Concertos (PC) and many other incidental piano works - he is stated to have composed 8 to 10 'Piano Concertos', some in his youth and at least 6 mature compositions - his mature works all have Opus numbers, as shown in the quote below; there is also a work from the Sachs catalog (letter 'S') written when he was around 20 y/o and rediscovered in the 1960s.

Today, I received the Brilliant Classics V.2 disc of that concerto w/ the Sachs number, plus the Concerto for piano, violin, & orchestra performed on period instruments w/ two different orchestras - thoroughly enjoyable (several reviews attached for those interested). The only other disc that I own w/ PCs Op. 85 & Op. 89 is with Stephen Hough (this was well received and not sure why he did not record more?).  For completeness, Howard Shelley has recorded most of these concertos w/ the London Mozart Players on Chandos (4 discs) - these are being sold on Amazon USA at full price - why Chandos won't just box these recordings is a little baffling to me - I'm sure the individual discs are not selling well (can't find any on BRO) - the recordings have received excellent comments and I would likely buy a box at a reduced price.  Dave :)

QuoteOp. 36, Concerto for Piano, No. 1 in C major (Vienna, circa 1811). a.k.a. Op. 34a-Shelley
Op. 85, Concerto for Piano, No. 2 in A minor-Hough
Op. 89, Concerto for Piano, No. 3 in B minor-Hough
Op. 110, Concerto for Piano, No. 4 in E major-Shelley
Op. 113, Concerto for Piano, No. 5 in A♭ major-Shelley
Op. post. 1 – Piano Concerto in F major-Shelley
S 4, WoO 24 – Piano Concerto in A major-FPBrilliant
*note available on CD w/ the performers shown (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel))

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Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 31, 2021, 10:55:21 AM
Keyboard Concertos - just for more completeness, Hummel wrote Piano Concertos (PC) and many other incidental piano works - he is stated to have composed 8 to 10 'Piano Concertos', some in his youth and at least 6 mature compositions - his mature works all have Opus numbers, as shown in the quote below; there is also a work from the Sachs catalog (letter 'S') written when he was around 20 y/o and rediscovered in the 1960s.

Today, I received the Brilliant Classics V.2 disc of that concerto w/ the Sachs number, plus the Concerto for piano, violin, & orchestra performed on period instruments w/ two different orchestras - thoroughly enjoyable (several reviews attached for those interested).

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Dave, I will definitely investigate those and give them a testrun on Spotify.

Thanks for posting! :)

Q

Just a year since the last post, and I've updated my collection of Hummel Piano Concertos - there are eight piano concertos, as shown in the first pic below (BUT, I've added Op. 17 for piano & violin) - (MusicWeb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Nov14/Hummel_PCs_GTK.htm)) has a nice review - click link, if interested.  I now have 6 of the 8 on 5 discs (Shelley seemed to like to put just a single concerto on a recording w/ other works).  Dave :)

P.S. the recording on Brilliant is w/ fortepiano and is Vol. 2 - would buy Vol. 1 but cannot find a physical copy?

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Another review of my Hummel KB Sonatas - quote from a year ago w/ not much change - as stated below, he wrote 6 Sonatas w/ Op. numbers, and apparently 3 w/o a designation - I currently own 2 complete sets of the 'official' six works, one on modern piano w/ Hobson and one on fortepianos w/ Mastroprimiano, plus a single disc of 3 pieces w/ Stephen Hough - reviews are attached and the Hough recording is felt equal to if not better than Hobson (listening now and pleased w/ both), BUT Hough did no more sonatas.

Hummel wrote a lot more non-sonata piano music (see the link, if curious) but not much available - there is a well regarded recording w/ Howard Shelley (last pic at bottom below) that I might add if a 'used copy' is available and after reading some more reviews and checking Spotify.  So this and the previous post catches me up on my current collection of this composer's piano music - Dave :)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 26, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
.............................
Keyboard Sonatas - Hummel wrote 6 Piano Sonatas w/ Opus numbers (listed below) - there are now an increasing number of recordings for selection - for these late classical-early Romantic composers, I usually like to have at least one modern piano performance and also one on a fortepiano (FP).  My current collection are the first 5 images (Ian Hobson has 3 CDs; the Mastroprimiano on FP is also 3 discs; the Hough has 3 of the 6 sonatas on one recording).

BUT, there are more - two complete sets (parts I've listen to on Spotify) on modern pianos include Antonio Pompa-Baldi & Constance Keene.................. Dave :)

QuotePiano Sonata No. 1, Op. 2a-No.3 (1792)
Piano Sonata No. 2, Op. 13 (c. 1804)
Piano Sonata No. 3, Op. 20 (c. 1807)
Piano Sonata No. 4, Op. 38 (c. 1808)
Piano Sonata No. 5, Op. 81 (date?)
Piano Sonata No. 6, Op. 106 (1824))

Piano Sonatas No. 7-9 - not in any catalog?  (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel))

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Madoka Inui has another disc of solo piano works by Hummel released on Naxos. That disc, and a number of other Naxos discs are in Brilliant Classics' Hummel collection. You'll also find the CPO release Der Durchzug durchs Rote Meer on there. All chandos discs of Hummel come highly recommended! The Brilliant complete piano concertos are HIP, the Chandos aren't, which is convenient. I just ordered the Naxos disc of 2 piano concertos used, although reviews are less positive about it. Would highly recommend this for fans after sampling Chandos discs, and 20 CDs feels like exactly the right size:

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His most famous work -- his Trumpet concerto -- who can recommend a recording of it?

Quote from: Spenserian on July 01, 2022, 06:55:09 AM
Madoka Inui has another disc of solo piano works by Hummel released on Naxos. That disc, and a number of other Naxos discs are in Brilliant Classics' Hummel collection. You'll also find the CPO release Der Durchzug durchs Rote Meer on there. All chandos discs of Hummel come highly recommended! The Brilliant complete piano concertos are HIP, the Chandos aren't, which is convenient. I just ordered the Naxos disc of 2 piano concertos used, although reviews are less positive about it. Would highly recommend this for fans after sampling Chandos discs, and 20 CDs feels like exactly the right size:

(https://media.s-bol.com/rkkAqlPN6Pzw/550x550.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Htp6HCXUL._UX250_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51eklWgyYqL._UX250_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)  (http://)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51C8v-WHcbL.jpg)

His most famous work -- his Trumpet concerto -- who can recommend a recording of it?

Well, there are so many choices depending on the combinations w/ other composers, often Haydn, and also on whether you prefer modern vs. period instruments - at the moment, I have the above inserted 3 recordings - love the Friedrich w/ the keyed trumpet - others will likely 'chime in' w/ their preferences.  Dave :)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 01, 2022, 03:29:38 PM
Well, there are so many choices depending on the combinations w/ other composers, often Haydn, and also on whether you prefer modern vs. period instruments - at the moment, I have the above inserted 3 recordings - love the Friedrich w/ the keyed trumpet - others will likely 'chime in' w/ their preferences.  Dave :)

Thank you! I have these two at the moment:
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Like to have a mix, both period and modern. Will check our the 3 you have.

What do you think about the trumpet concerto?

- Orchestra: Academy of St. Martin in the Fields
- Conductor: Sir Neville Marriner
- Soloist: Håkan Hardenberger
- Year of recording: 1986

Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 15, 2023, 08:50:21 AMWhat do you think about the trumpet concerto?

- Orchestra: Academy of St. Martin in the Fields
- Conductor: Sir Neville Marriner
- Soloist: Håkan Hardenberger
- Year of recording: 1986

Hi Wolfie - have not heard Hardenberger but this afternoon I've been listening to my collection of the trumpet concertos (top 3 images below) - lower pics of some other options, i.e. Alison Balsom & Hakan Hardenberger - attached PDF of numerous reviews, including several on Hardenberger which are quite good - consequently, I went to DISCOGS (https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=hummel+trumpet+hardenberger&type=all&type=all) and ordered the Philips twofer shown below (used set for about $8 total).  Hope this helps you decide - will likely cull out one of my other recordings.  Dave :)

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Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 15, 2023, 11:18:40 AMHi Wolfie - have not heard Hardenberger but this afternoon I've been listening to my collection of the trumpet concertos (top 3 images below) - lower pics of some other options, i.e. Alison Balsom & Hakan Hardenberger - attached PDF of numerous reviews, including several on Hardenberger which are quite good - consequently, I went to DISCOGS (https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=hummel+trumpet+hardenberger&type=all&type=all) and ordered the Philips twofer shown below (used set for about $8 total).  Hope this helps you decide - will likely cull out one of my other recordings.  Dave :)

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Thanks for your reply.

Dave, I think I've actually heard all those recordings.  I've also heard the concerto live.  The Neruda work is also fine, and is underappreciated when compared to the great Haydn and Hummel imo.

I've been interested in this composer ever since I first learned that he was a big influence on Chopin, but still have never really gotten into his music. I have one disc of piano sonatas by Stephen Hough, maybe I'll listen to that soon.

I had to work rather hard to track the only English language book on Hummel, Johann Nepomuk Hummel: A Musician's Life and World by Mark Kroll. It's a good read, very vernacular and fun despite ostensibly being academic. Each chapter focuses on aspects of his life or other composers whose works he influenced. You'd almost miss just how influential he was; his piano concertos were widely disseminated. Liszt played the B minor piano concerto in his Paris debut, and played the A minor in Vienna. He also greatly admired the Septet, writing that it never failed to have an excellent effect. Schumann included Hummel in a list of "muti-faceted refined composer-virtuosos", although he was often negative about his works. He respected the works widely considered the greatest, the two piano concertos in minor keys, his septet, and piano sonata in f-sharp minor, also loved by Chopin. Schubert was also influenced by Hummel, and probably based his 'Trout' quintet on Hummel's quintet. (In return, Hummel loved SChubert; Ferdinand Hiller describes him with tears in his eyes, listening to Schubert and a singer play his songs, I read in Bodley's recent biography of Schubert.) Stephen Walsh, in his recent book on Romanticism (The Beloved Vision), wrote that "Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin all learnt from his example in one way or another". You start to wonder, after reading about him, why Hummel has been forgotten by history, when he was so important to contemporary composers.

I found comments Hummel made about Beethoven very telling about his place in music history. Apparently, he told his student Ferdinand Hiller that after Beethoven's appearance, he wondered if he should try and walk in his footsteps, felt lost, and finally decided to continue being himself. It feels like Hummel is the classical school continued without too much influnce from burgeonining romanticism, as if in acceptance that he could never match Beethoven. (Walsh calls him a transitional figure between classicism and romanticism.).

I have to admit that I listen to him with almost astounding frequency. Whenever I'm in for a fun, virtuosic work for piano and orchestra, I pick one of his many concertos or rondos. The Chandos label has been very loyal to Hummel, recording most of his concertos. Of course everyone recommends the disc of Stephen Hough playing the A and B minor piano concertos on Chandos, which was a big hit and was a revelation at the time, because the concertos were actually so difficult to play (Hough called learning them a "baptism by fire") that they had never before been recorded without cuts. There's an old and excellent article about them on musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Nov14/Hummel_PCs_GTK.htm), though dated.

Quote from: Spenserian on August 28, 2023, 05:09:02 AMI had to work rather hard to track the only English language book on Hummel, Johann Nepomuk Hummel: A Musician's Life and World by Mark Kroll. It's a good read, very vernacular and fun despite ostensibly being academic. Each chapter focuses on aspects of his life or other composers whose works he influenced...............

Thanks for the mention of the Hummel biography - found a copy at my local Wake Forest University library to which I have a library card (Emeritus faculty member) - will take out soon.  Dave :)

Just obtained the bio of Hummel shown below (cover, credits, table of contents including indices) by Mark Kroll and published in 2007.  The author is a keyboard performer and a Professor Emeritus of music at Boston University.

Despite the length of the book overall, the 'read' is about 340 pages w/ lots of notes after each chapter - up to chapter 3, most about him up to 10 or so years old and his time in the Mozart household for several years.  Does not contain much in the way of 'musical scores' which always confound my reading of these books - should be an enjoyable read. Borrowed from my local Wake Forest University library (believe I'm the first one to take the book out and has a due date in a year!  So seems to have no waiting list -  ;D )  Dave

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